Ahtisaari: Kosovo deadline stands

Well given that Athisarri says it makes no difference to anything to have talks why is he even suggesting it - why not just go to the UN. He should get on with it and if he is so confident get it passed - does that not say volumes - the fact that he is getting rattled by a few more talks seems very odd for a "impartial" UN representative.

No I guess he has heard back form the EU troika and wants to head off any further negotiations that have to and will take place in order for all to come to an agreement that will be acceptable to all and would be passed by the UN Security council. As it stands plan A-thisarri according to Lavrov only a few days ago said "Any attempts to submit these proposals to the U.N. Security Council would be futile and counterproductive," - I guess Athisarri heard the closed version from the EU Troika and is rattled.

Princip, Further negotiations of around 2 weeks were announced way back, in December I think. It has nothing to with the EU troika we are well aware of what’s going on. Serbia should be very happy with the document, K- Albanians shouldn't, it is not what the Kosovo population wants. personally I am not happy with the proposal as the path to independence isn't crystal clear. hopefully the K-negotiating team will insist into this clarification. What is crystal clear then? It is the fact that Serbia has lost Kosovo for good and all.

Princip you seem confused. It wasn't Ahtisaari who suggested new talks, but he was forced to call them by the west, due to Serbia's lack of cooperation. And even when he called for new talks, he said that he was pessimistic, given the positions the two sides hold.

Doesn't that just make you look like an idiot now?

What is there to talk about? I see no reason to talk when we have not agreed on j anything in the last 7 years. What makes you think we will agree now?

Ahtisaari's position may seem one sided to you, but when you think about it its the only practical thing to do. Delays would only serve to inflame the situtation and anger the Kosovo Albanians who have been living in limbo for the last 7 years.

And i would not rely on the Russians after their foreign ministers last statement if i were you.

Serbs are masters of delays and Ahtisaari knows it. The people of Kosovo deserve to know their status, that is all that matters.

russia has serbia under the thump and not the other way around. If you think russians will help serbia so much then good luck. my best guess is russia will Abstein from voting, hence not setting a precedent for territories controlled by russia. not that there ever was one anyway.

If say russia does veto, then unilateral independece is an option. UN security council cannot force another country to NOT RECOGNISE kosovo. my guess is kosovars would prefer this anyway as serbia would be embarassed even more on the world stage. not to mention the russians because all of a suddent a veto will mean nothing which is more of a concern for russians than serbia. Influence via veto is very powerful. degrading it wont be acceptable so it will be better to abstein from voting.

many countries would recognise kosovo and whether russia does or not is irrelevant because future is west...not east. serbia can break diplomatic contact with whoever it wants, only the serbian population will suffer.

Also in addition, russians have said that they support a compromise resolution ie. which is acceptable to both sides, NOT JUST TO SERBIA. Remember, not everyone in the security council has to vote so if there is a deadlock, all russians can do is abstein and Kosovo independene will mean nothing to other regions trying to break away.

Well, don't trust and do not expect much of Russia, because they will state different things at certain political moments. As you know, Kostunica had told Serbs that Russia would block Kosovo's independence at the U.N. Security Council. But according to Reuters Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov said: "President Vladimir Putin has never said he would use Moscow's veto ... over Kosovo." In Serbia's some dailies on Monday were siting government sources that Russia was also warning Kostunica that "if Serbia rejects everything (by spurning the Vienna talks), Russia will not support it, on the grounds that it is not being constructive." That's why Ahtisaari is staying on schedule.

Russia never said it would outright veto a UNSC Resolution on Kosovo. Lavrov's statement isn't turncoat, he's stating what Russia has supported from the very beginning: a veto if the Kosovo issue is unilaterally imposed and goes against the acceptance of Belgrade. Belgrade's going to have to accept SOMETHING, but any rogue actions taken by Pristina will be blocked by Moscow. That's what Russia's stance is. This protects against illegal declaration of any independence, and preserves the integrity of state sovereignty for the world. Can you imagine what would happen is Kosovo unilaterally declares independence and is only recognized by a handful of states? This is when we get the nightmare scenario of Republika Srpska, Transdniestr, Nagorno-Karabakh, etc. declaring similar independences and recognized by similar handfuls of states. The EU could then say all day that Kosovo didn't set a precedent, when in fact it actually did. So as much as some might think "to heck what Russia thinks, I'm declaring independence", I believe (hope even) that the international community is not going to compromise the universal principles of state sovereignty over the impatience of small Balkan community.

I'm a bit confused...

Since when did the line between a person of proposals, and a person of forced memorandums take place??

This is a mememorandum declaring indepence, and for Serbia to "accept" it..

If that's the case, then call it what it TRULY is..A forced set of rules, with suggestions that allow for "token" acceptances on Serbia's side...

Question...

Regardless of the outcome, do the people of that region think that independence will solve the problems for the next generations??

to all those Albanians here who are claiming that calling Agim Ceku a criminal is only serbian propaganda.. I would recommend the following text:

"Agim Ceku — such a Serb-hunting enthusiast that when the early, Croatian leg of the wars kicked off, this Kosovo Albanian high-tailed it to Croatia and became a colonel in its army. He led Croatian troops in the 1993 offensive on Croatia’s Medak Pocket, where Serbs lived. As Canadian journalist Scott Taylor wrote:

It was here that the men of the 2nd Battalion of Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry came face to face with the savagery of which [Agim] Ceku was capable. Over 200 Serbian inhabitants of the Medak Pocket were slaughtered in a grotesque manner (the bodies of female rape victims were found after being burned alive). Our traumatized troops who buried the grisly remains were encouraged to collect evidence and were assured that the perpetrators would be brought to justice.

Nevertheless in 1995, Ceku, by then trained by U.S. instructors as a general of artillery, was still at large. In fact, he was the officer responsible for shelling the Serbian refugee columns and for targeting the UN-declared “safe” city of Knin during the Croatian offensive known as Operation Storm [which the New York Times called “the largest single ‘ethnic cleansing’ of the war”]. Some 500 innocent civilians perished in those merciless barrages, and senior Canadian officers who witnessed the slaughter demanded that Ceku be indicted. Once again, their pleas fell of deaf ears.

Today Ceku is the Prime Minister of Kosovo..."

the source:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25269

to make long story short> the package is less than independence and more than autonomy. thats why vetevendosje and other extremists are against it. they are the realistic group in kosovo although i dislike their violent manner of demonstration. politicians behave as they are.

(jovan, 7 February 2007, 01:06)

Thank you Jovan, didn't realized that the terrorist Ceku was involved in the Medak pocket. This was the largest fire fight between the UN contingent and any of the belligerant forces in the former Yugoslavia.

Need I remind everyone in here that the Croatian Army of which Ceku was part of overran the UN barricades in Krajina, killing some Canadian UN Peacekeepers.

Well given that Athisarri says it makes no difference to anything to have talks why is he even suggesting it - why not just go to the UN. He should get on with it and if he is so confident get it passed - does that not say volumes - the fact that he is getting rattled by a few more talks seems very odd for a "impartial" UN representative.

No I guess he has heard back form the EU troika and wants to head off any further negotiations that have to and will take place in order for all to come to an agreement that will be acceptable to all and would be passed by the UN Security council. As it stands plan A-thisarri according to Lavrov only a few days ago said "Any attempts to submit these proposals to the U.N. Security Council would be futile and counterproductive," - I guess Athisarri heard the closed version from the EU Troika and is rattled.

Princip, Further negotiations of around 2 weeks were announced way back, in December I think. It has nothing to with the EU troika we are well aware of what’s going on. Serbia should be very happy with the document, K- Albanians shouldn't, it is not what the Kosovo population wants. personally I am not happy with the proposal as the path to independence isn't crystal clear. hopefully the K-negotiating team will insist into this clarification. What is crystal clear then? It is the fact that Serbia has lost Kosovo for good and all.

Princip you seem confused. It wasn't Ahtisaari who suggested new talks, but he was forced to call them by the west, due to Serbia's lack of cooperation. And even when he called for new talks, he said that he was pessimistic, given the positions the two sides hold.

Doesn't that just make you look like an idiot now?

What is there to talk about? I see no reason to talk when we have not agreed on j anything in the last 7 years. What makes you think we will agree now?

Ahtisaari's position may seem one sided to you, but when you think about it its the only practical thing to do. Delays would only serve to inflame the situtation and anger the Kosovo Albanians who have been living in limbo for the last 7 years.

And i would not rely on the Russians after their foreign ministers last statement if i were you.

Serbs are masters of delays and Ahtisaari knows it. The people of Kosovo deserve to know their status, that is all that matters.

russia has serbia under the thump and not the other way around. If you think russians will help serbia so much then good luck. my best guess is russia will Abstein from voting, hence not setting a precedent for territories controlled by russia. not that there ever was one anyway.

If say russia does veto, then unilateral independece is an option. UN security council cannot force another country to NOT RECOGNISE kosovo. my guess is kosovars would prefer this anyway as serbia would be embarassed even more on the world stage. not to mention the russians because all of a suddent a veto will mean nothing which is more of a concern for russians than serbia. Influence via veto is very powerful. degrading it wont be acceptable so it will be better to abstein from voting.

many countries would recognise kosovo and whether russia does or not is irrelevant because future is west...not east. serbia can break diplomatic contact with whoever it wants, only the serbian population will suffer.

Also in addition, russians have said that they support a compromise resolution ie. which is acceptable to both sides, NOT JUST TO SERBIA. Remember, not everyone in the security council has to vote so if there is a deadlock, all russians can do is abstein and Kosovo independene will mean nothing to other regions trying to break away.

Well, don't trust and do not expect much of Russia, because they will state different things at certain political moments. As you know, Kostunica had told Serbs that Russia would block Kosovo's independence at the U.N. Security Council. But according to Reuters Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov said: "President Vladimir Putin has never said he would use Moscow's veto ... over Kosovo." In Serbia's some dailies on Monday were siting government sources that Russia was also warning Kostunica that "if Serbia rejects everything (by spurning the Vienna talks), Russia will not support it, on the grounds that it is not being constructive." That's why Ahtisaari is staying on schedule.

Russia never said it would outright veto a UNSC Resolution on Kosovo. Lavrov's statement isn't turncoat, he's stating what Russia has supported from the very beginning: a veto if the Kosovo issue is unilaterally imposed and goes against the acceptance of Belgrade. Belgrade's going to have to accept SOMETHING, but any rogue actions taken by Pristina will be blocked by Moscow. That's what Russia's stance is. This protects against illegal declaration of any independence, and preserves the integrity of state sovereignty for the world. Can you imagine what would happen is Kosovo unilaterally declares independence and is only recognized by a handful of states? This is when we get the nightmare scenario of Republika Srpska, Transdniestr, Nagorno-Karabakh, etc. declaring similar independences and recognized by similar handfuls of states. The EU could then say all day that Kosovo didn't set a precedent, when in fact it actually did. So as much as some might think "to heck what Russia thinks, I'm declaring independence", I believe (hope even) that the international community is not going to compromise the universal principles of state sovereignty over the impatience of small Balkan community.

I'm a bit confused...

Since when did the line between a person of proposals, and a person of forced memorandums take place??

This is a mememorandum declaring indepence, and for Serbia to "accept" it..

If that's the case, then call it what it TRULY is..A forced set of rules, with suggestions that allow for "token" acceptances on Serbia's side...

Question...

Regardless of the outcome, do the people of that region think that independence will solve the problems for the next generations??

to all those Albanians here who are claiming that calling Agim Ceku a criminal is only serbian propaganda.. I would recommend the following text:

"Agim Ceku — such a Serb-hunting enthusiast that when the early, Croatian leg of the wars kicked off, this Kosovo Albanian high-tailed it to Croatia and became a colonel in its army. He led Croatian troops in the 1993 offensive on Croatia’s Medak Pocket, where Serbs lived. As Canadian journalist Scott Taylor wrote:

It was here that the men of the 2nd Battalion of Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry came face to face with the savagery of which [Agim] Ceku was capable. Over 200 Serbian inhabitants of the Medak Pocket were slaughtered in a grotesque manner (the bodies of female rape victims were found after being burned alive). Our traumatized troops who buried the grisly remains were encouraged to collect evidence and were assured that the perpetrators would be brought to justice.

Nevertheless in 1995, Ceku, by then trained by U.S. instructors as a general of artillery, was still at large. In fact, he was the officer responsible for shelling the Serbian refugee columns and for targeting the UN-declared “safe” city of Knin during the Croatian offensive known as Operation Storm [which the New York Times called “the largest single ‘ethnic cleansing’ of the war”]. Some 500 innocent civilians perished in those merciless barrages, and senior Canadian officers who witnessed the slaughter demanded that Ceku be indicted. Once again, their pleas fell of deaf ears.

Today Ceku is the Prime Minister of Kosovo..."

the source:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25269

to make long story short> the package is less than independence and more than autonomy. thats why vetevendosje and other extremists are against it. they are the realistic group in kosovo although i dislike their violent manner of demonstration. politicians behave as they are.

(jovan, 7 February 2007, 01:06)

Thank you Jovan, didn't realized that the terrorist Ceku was involved in the Medak pocket. This was the largest fire fight between the UN contingent and any of the belligerant forces in the former Yugoslavia.

Need I remind everyone in here that the Croatian Army of which Ceku was part of overran the UN barricades in Krajina, killing some Canadian UN Peacekeepers.