Tadić: Independence unacceptable

Like anyone cares what Serbia thinks. We are getting our second much-deserved state, and that's it. Thank you ahtisaari for giving us de jure independence.

Well, what did we expect Tadic to say? No state leader, no matter how democratic, is going to simply sit back and allow territory to be taken away from them. Even the K-Albanian government scoffs at the possibility of territory being taken away from Kosovo, and Albanians in general would revolt if Northern Epiros seceded and went back to Greece. I see the next conflict coming as one of territorial partition so as to give some creditiblity to the Serbian government that while they couldn't save all of Kosovo, they at least were able to preserve the Serb-dominated enclaves. The last thing, and I'm dead serious on this, that ANYONE in the Balkans want right now is for Belgrade to fall back into the hands of the nationalists and Radicals, and by forcing Serbia to completely acquiesce on territorial loss would weaken the new government before it forms and invite a political coup by the Radicals. This is something neither Serbs, nor Albanians, can afford.

Sidi, whether you like it or not, the Serbs still have a significant say in what happens. If the so-called international community determine that the province of Kosovo is given 'independence' against the wishes of an internationally accepted country of Serbia (Resolution 1244) it would be the first time that this has happened and openn up the flood-gates. that is why Kosovo is offered greater autonomy, not independence.
Acceptance on BOTH sides will be required, and proper protection of Serbs and other minorities in Kosovo will have to be better implemented than it is now.

UNSC which includes china and russia,will decide. ;-)


UN Security Council to define Kosovo final status: Ahtisaari
February 02, 2007


Belgrade. UN special envoy Martti Ahtisaari said on Friay that the final status of Kosovo would be defined by the UN Security Council, the Serbian agency TANJUG reported. He pointed out that his proposal was in fact a draft, that it represented a compromise and that it would therefore give still another chance to both sides to prove whether they were ready to take part in taking a decision on Kosovo without an unnecessary delay.
Focus News Agency

All these constant appeals to 'international law' principles are unprincipled.
Everyone knows there is no such thing as 'international law'. Any law that cannot be enforced is not a law.

Hence, in Kosovo there are no international law principles to be upheld, no Serb sovereignty to be honoroed, and certainly no Orthodox Jerusalem to be venerated.

On top of it all, Serbia never properly ratified Kosovo's annexation in 1912 anyway.

So, as partakers on this discussion, let us just stay free of all this legal tripe.

Trust me when I say this, cash flow from Kosovo to Serbia will triple once the country gets its 'conditional independence'. The Albanians might have 'supervised freedom', but their youth will have little future.

KOSOVO CONTACT GROUP ISSUE JOINT STATEMENT (02/02/07)


The Contact Group on Kosovo, of which the UK is a member, has issued the following joint statement on the status process.

'On 2 February 2007 UNSG Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari presented his draft comprehensive proposal on the Kosovo status settlement to Belgrade and Pristina.

'The Contact Group encourages both Belgrade and Pristina to engage fully and constructively with the Special Envoy in this phase of the process. The Contact Group expects both parties to demonstrate responsibility, flexibility and a recognition of the need for realistic compromise-based solutions so that the status process is brought forward on the basis of UNSCR 1244.'

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029391629&a=KArticle&aid=1170250993455

To, ALL

It has been a long time since I took my time to comment here, though I’ve been following most of the arguments posted in this web page. You have to be illiterate to not see what is happening with Kosovo. If this draft offered something less than independence then Serbian government wouldn’t have been this distressed, after all they ran a campaign stating “more than autonomy, less than independence”. If Ahtisar offered a broad autonomy, or internal independence then Serbia would have welcomed it. This is politics and the most powerful countries in the world are involved. They know about Serbia, after all WWI started because of the Black Hand (of course with other issues following the death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand).

A draft WILL become a reality unless the two parties involved (Kosovo and Belgrade) compromise on something. If you are trying to find compromise between Kosovo and Serbia – Good Luck! I shouldn’t elaborate on it anymore!!!!!!

Everybody who keeps saying that the solution has to be acceptable to both sides, is dreaming. Compromise will never be achieve, like veryone say the two sides are diametrically opposed, i.e. they will never agree.

Russia reaction is a joke: the solution has to be acceptable to both side and under resolution 1244. When everyone knows that no kosovan albanian will ever accpect to be under serbian sovergnity again. and thats is something that will never change.

One side will lose. I.e kosovo either remains part of serbia or it doesn't. And i think we all know what the answer to that is.

As much as the pro-independence camp would like to cheer & claim victory, lets look at the facts.

1.) Yes, the US, Albanians, Athisari & Co back independence. But Serbia (of which Kosovo belongs to) doesn't. Todays headline on reuters, cnn, etc. read "Pristina, SERBIA"... or "SERBIAN province of KOSOVO". There is no mention anywhere of KOSOVA. Just liked to point out to my fellow citizens of Serbia which COUNTRY they currently live in.

2.) Russia has said ANY proposal not backed by Serbia will be Vetoed in the SC. So who has more power... Russia? or Ahtisari? The FIN can voice any opinion he likes, but that doesn't change a thing. So long as the UN, the UNITED NATIONS, the largest union of countries on the planet recognize Kosovo a PROVINCE of Serbia, that is all Serbia cares for.

NATO bombed for humanitarian reasons. However, if it ends up that Kosovo gets independence because of NATO's intervention, then NATO will never be trusted to perform a humanitarian intervention again.

The international community are storing up severe political problems for the future - more tiny breakaways can be expected and much less trust in international negotiators.

Serbia is not now the Serbia of Milosevic - it is a forward looking democratic state with sovereign borders. It is right that Tadic be taken seriously on this matter.

On the other hand the population of Kosovo deserve a fair government - but decided on fully democratic non-ethnic basis. A large degree of autonomy is definitely appropriate.

Kreshnik you said;

"Everyone knows there is no such thing as 'international law'. Any law that cannot be enforced is not a law. "

- would this be your definition of how to protect the human rights of all non-Albanians?

Clearly with this insight I guess little has changed.

Looking forward to the UN security council decision - lets just see but once again no independence - no mention of it let alone a date - why not?

Tadić: Independence unacceptable.»

Not defering Mladic, Karadzic and other war criminals to The Hague is also unacceptable, Mister President. ANd I would add that it is because of your policies, and Kostunica's policies, that Mladic is free, and you should be ashamed of it!

As for the Albanians from Kosovo, they would be better off than with people like you!

No matter how we interpret phrases and euphemisms, one thing is clear: Serbia has lost Kosovo and for that it has only itself to blame. Yes, the leaders in Belgrade cite international law, but isn't law meant for just thosae who break it? Serbia lost its legitimacy over Kossovo once its leaders began mass expulsion, burning, raping, killing, and covering it up, so the international community would not intervene. Whta puzzles me is the very tragic truth that it did against its own citizens, which now wishes to have under rule one more time. I don't think that would happen. No matter what Russia says and does Kossovo is on the road to statehood, albeit, supervised statehood. Whether Serbia recognizes that fact would greatly influence the future of both nations. Sure, it's not easy to say, "Let bygones be bygones," but Serbia has no other viable alternative. It has already become clearly impossible for that nation to govern 2 mil. Albanians who only a few years ago suffered a tragedy at the hands of their co-nationals/citizens. Hence, it's better, although painful, for both sides to change the rapport. From ruler and vassal to neighbors. One more thing. I strongly believe that once both sides recognize and respect each other as neighbors, Albanians will be able to shop on Sundays in Nis and Belgrade, and Serbs will be able to do the same in Pristina. If Serbia refuses to do that, then Kossovans will have to travel in the newly being constructed highway to Tirana and spend their monies there. That would really be the worst alternative for Belgrade.

Just wondering if Kosovo Albanians have yet decided what kind of flag and national anthem will they use for the new Independent state, and also how will they call their new country. I would be a little disappointed if in their new flag is not included something, a sign, that will show their appreciation to the US an EU. But I also think that it is the time for Kosovo Serbs to join the Kosovo negotiating team and have they say on this and other important issues that will affect their future in the new state.
Thanks guys , thanks B-92.

nonsense, Serbia can not be trusted to rule Kosovo after 1999, it has constantly proven to the world that it is incapable of ruling Kosovo.

oh and Bob, we dont care if you are past the Milosevic time, we dont care if you are democratic or radical, in fact if you go radical it would make our job a whole lot easier.

the fact is, we and i personally have never considered ourselves Serbian citizens, never once in my life did i consider myself a Serbian citizen.

Ahtisari did not bring us our independence, in our hearts we have been independent since we were born.

we dont care if milosevic, tadic or natasa kandic is in power in Serbia. We do not want to have anything to do with you.

we will only cooperate as neighbours and nothing else.

Its time Serbia to wake up and to think for his proper way ,move to look Kosova ,dont dream for the land which never belongs to serbia take care of your people in serbia state and Kosovars will take care for their people .Dont dream and make more myths for Kosova.I wish you one day to be democratic state like Kosova will be .2Febr.07 was the end of dreams the end of bad economy so pls let we start to work like two neighbours states Kosova State and Serbia state.No more Blood no more sufering look in the future.and learn from all happend in Kosova never repeat it again. All the best.

Bob not to start a flame war but, how can you "bomb for humanitarian reasons" the west is so full of hypocracies and propaganda that it is disgusting. What if all of the mexicans in California decided they would like to form their own state separate from the US. This is essentially the same thing.

By Ahtisaari's reasoning, Republika Srpska MUST be next in line for its own independence. KOS-MET is SERBIA and always will be no matter what someone proposes!!!

to (Nick, 3 February 2007, 00:36)

Do you consider yourself Albanian? You should be loyal to your foster country Serbia. If you and your people don't like it you should move back to Albania! It appears this proposal would create a reason for minorities in other countries to do the same such as: South Americans in California, 10 million Muslims in France, the Macedonians and Turks in Greece, the Roma in Bulgaria, the Tartars in Bulgaria, Russia and Ukraine etc. I'm a proud Macedonian loyal to my country regardless of my ancestors background (which happens to be Albanian). Evey US citizen is loyal to USA. Why can't Kosovars be loyal to Serbia? Its one thing to ask for human rights and another to claim independance by force! Is it true Albanians do not like Kosovar's even though you are the same religion?

Marko

"What if all of the mexicans in California decided they would like to form their own state separate from the US. This is essentially the same thing." - MExicans have moved to california in the last few decades.

alabanians have been living in kosovo for centuries, and way before serbs!!

MKD

"Do you consider yourself Albanian? You should be loyal to your foster country Serbia. If you and your people don't like it you should move back to Albania! " - the above comment goes for you as well.

Nick wrote:
"the fact is, we and i personally have never considered ourselves Serbian citizens, never once in my life did i consider myself a Serbian citizen.

Ahtisari did not bring us our independence, in our hearts we have been independent since we were born."

Oh my God!!! For once somebody has admitted it. So are you so surprised what happened after Holbrooke had got you poor chaps to sign on for bombing?

The majority of Albanians CHOSE to be separatists, and never ONCE respected the state they lived in. You claim to be democratic, and EU bound, but i doubt that a single Albanian in Macedonia , Montenegro respects the roof under which they live..

Your actions prove it. Rather than living as neighbours, you choose to live separately AND with suspicion. It's the Albanians who built the walls of suspicion and hatred..

Believe me, Milosevic didn't care about your ethnicity. He cared about Milosevic first and foremost. In fact, his personal honour guards and special forces would also be Albanian. Albanians would be beating Serbs with billy-bats in downtown Belgrade if you had co-operated with the state..You'd have been his personal Gurkas.

So go ahead, blame the Serbs for what they did in 1999, they seem to be paying for it dearly.

Seems to me that the only people here claiming statehood due to nationality and purism are the Albanians..

The fact is there will be no independence for Kosovo. It is illegal, there are too many secession movements around the world that would use it as a precedent, it would in fact create a 'greater Albania', and Serbia would impose an economic blockade were this even tried. Serbia is much more important to Europe than 2 million albanians in Kosovo, and Albania is third world country and the backwater of Europe. That's the true reality. All you Serb haters would love for Kosovo would get independence, I know, but the fact is that it's never going to happen. Get real.

Dragan,
merked your words. See you the day after I-Day. Cheers

to pijetro:

I am really disappointed reading such comments like the one Nick has written. I mean this abyss of ignorance!

they almost seem to need someone who tells them by force what is right.

independence seems to float down the river, they just don´t get it yet.

that proposal is worthless when it is veto-ed. can´t you finally understand that?

and then, if the EU shows a lack of consensus, I just want to read your comments about that point since you are avoiding to respond on this even if it is obvious.

the bottom-line is:
no SC-consensus - no independence

no EU-consensus-
no independence

what will the Albanians do?
on the one side I hope they will finally come to the sound conclusion that they cannot go on with allegations and threats. on the other side I hope it won´t happen, but if so, if they really should dare to use violence as a means for their goals, I would like to see NATO acting. and I would say it like in a sports-apparel advertisement: just do it!

things are going a good way. since yesterday I am quite confident, but today Poland said the KiM-issue should be solved inside Serbia,
that of course doesn´t matter to the Albanians, since they still believe what they have been told for years...

Pjetro,

For every nasty comment i write i get at least three "go to Albania" comments from Serbs, so it seems i am winning in blag's "who's more radical" game.

Whether we chose to be separatists or not is a matter of prespective, while you think we were chose to be separatists i believe we were simply taking back what was ours.

Jovan,

i am one of the most moderate albanians you will even talk to, i was trying to be as simple as possible, so that i could make as more sense as i possibly can to people such as you. You call me ignorant and yet you fail to see what is right in front of your eyes.

You people try to hide behind legal and economical arguements because you have no moral right to Kosovo and you know it.

"...like it or not, the Serbs still have a significant say in what happens...."

Yes you do..only your 'say' is confined to serbia's future as a nation...what you 'say' re. Kosova determines your future for the next century. Keep that in mind.

Kreshnick, so you reply to Marko's comment;

Marko

"What if all of the mexicans in California decided they would like to form their own state separate from the US. This is essentially the same thing." - MExicans have moved to california in the last few decades.

alabanians have been living in kosovo for centuries, and way before serbs!!

- you fail to realise that the spanish descendents - Mexicans have been living in California long before any WASP (white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) Americans and for that matter the US states of New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming & Florida - read up on the Transcontinental Treaty of 1819 when Mexico was still part of Spain. So I guess you would want the Mexicans the same precedent!

Like anyone cares what Serbia thinks. We are getting our second much-deserved state, and that's it. Thank you ahtisaari for giving us de jure independence.

Well, what did we expect Tadic to say? No state leader, no matter how democratic, is going to simply sit back and allow territory to be taken away from them. Even the K-Albanian government scoffs at the possibility of territory being taken away from Kosovo, and Albanians in general would revolt if Northern Epiros seceded and went back to Greece. I see the next conflict coming as one of territorial partition so as to give some creditiblity to the Serbian government that while they couldn't save all of Kosovo, they at least were able to preserve the Serb-dominated enclaves. The last thing, and I'm dead serious on this, that ANYONE in the Balkans want right now is for Belgrade to fall back into the hands of the nationalists and Radicals, and by forcing Serbia to completely acquiesce on territorial loss would weaken the new government before it forms and invite a political coup by the Radicals. This is something neither Serbs, nor Albanians, can afford.

Sidi, whether you like it or not, the Serbs still have a significant say in what happens. If the so-called international community determine that the province of Kosovo is given 'independence' against the wishes of an internationally accepted country of Serbia (Resolution 1244) it would be the first time that this has happened and openn up the flood-gates. that is why Kosovo is offered greater autonomy, not independence.
Acceptance on BOTH sides will be required, and proper protection of Serbs and other minorities in Kosovo will have to be better implemented than it is now.

UNSC which includes china and russia,will decide. ;-)


UN Security Council to define Kosovo final status: Ahtisaari
February 02, 2007


Belgrade. UN special envoy Martti Ahtisaari said on Friay that the final status of Kosovo would be defined by the UN Security Council, the Serbian agency TANJUG reported. He pointed out that his proposal was in fact a draft, that it represented a compromise and that it would therefore give still another chance to both sides to prove whether they were ready to take part in taking a decision on Kosovo without an unnecessary delay.
Focus News Agency

All these constant appeals to 'international law' principles are unprincipled.
Everyone knows there is no such thing as 'international law'. Any law that cannot be enforced is not a law.

Hence, in Kosovo there are no international law principles to be upheld, no Serb sovereignty to be honoroed, and certainly no Orthodox Jerusalem to be venerated.

On top of it all, Serbia never properly ratified Kosovo's annexation in 1912 anyway.

So, as partakers on this discussion, let us just stay free of all this legal tripe.

Trust me when I say this, cash flow from Kosovo to Serbia will triple once the country gets its 'conditional independence'. The Albanians might have 'supervised freedom', but their youth will have little future.

KOSOVO CONTACT GROUP ISSUE JOINT STATEMENT (02/02/07)


The Contact Group on Kosovo, of which the UK is a member, has issued the following joint statement on the status process.

'On 2 February 2007 UNSG Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari presented his draft comprehensive proposal on the Kosovo status settlement to Belgrade and Pristina.

'The Contact Group encourages both Belgrade and Pristina to engage fully and constructively with the Special Envoy in this phase of the process. The Contact Group expects both parties to demonstrate responsibility, flexibility and a recognition of the need for realistic compromise-based solutions so that the status process is brought forward on the basis of UNSCR 1244.'

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029391629&a=KArticle&aid=1170250993455

To, ALL

It has been a long time since I took my time to comment here, though I’ve been following most of the arguments posted in this web page. You have to be illiterate to not see what is happening with Kosovo. If this draft offered something less than independence then Serbian government wouldn’t have been this distressed, after all they ran a campaign stating “more than autonomy, less than independence”. If Ahtisar offered a broad autonomy, or internal independence then Serbia would have welcomed it. This is politics and the most powerful countries in the world are involved. They know about Serbia, after all WWI started because of the Black Hand (of course with other issues following the death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand).

A draft WILL become a reality unless the two parties involved (Kosovo and Belgrade) compromise on something. If you are trying to find compromise between Kosovo and Serbia – Good Luck! I shouldn’t elaborate on it anymore!!!!!!

Everybody who keeps saying that the solution has to be acceptable to both sides, is dreaming. Compromise will never be achieve, like veryone say the two sides are diametrically opposed, i.e. they will never agree.

Russia reaction is a joke: the solution has to be acceptable to both side and under resolution 1244. When everyone knows that no kosovan albanian will ever accpect to be under serbian sovergnity again. and thats is something that will never change.

One side will lose. I.e kosovo either remains part of serbia or it doesn't. And i think we all know what the answer to that is.

As much as the pro-independence camp would like to cheer & claim victory, lets look at the facts.

1.) Yes, the US, Albanians, Athisari & Co back independence. But Serbia (of which Kosovo belongs to) doesn't. Todays headline on reuters, cnn, etc. read "Pristina, SERBIA"... or "SERBIAN province of KOSOVO". There is no mention anywhere of KOSOVA. Just liked to point out to my fellow citizens of Serbia which COUNTRY they currently live in.

2.) Russia has said ANY proposal not backed by Serbia will be Vetoed in the SC. So who has more power... Russia? or Ahtisari? The FIN can voice any opinion he likes, but that doesn't change a thing. So long as the UN, the UNITED NATIONS, the largest union of countries on the planet recognize Kosovo a PROVINCE of Serbia, that is all Serbia cares for.

NATO bombed for humanitarian reasons. However, if it ends up that Kosovo gets independence because of NATO's intervention, then NATO will never be trusted to perform a humanitarian intervention again.

The international community are storing up severe political problems for the future - more tiny breakaways can be expected and much less trust in international negotiators.

Serbia is not now the Serbia of Milosevic - it is a forward looking democratic state with sovereign borders. It is right that Tadic be taken seriously on this matter.

On the other hand the population of Kosovo deserve a fair government - but decided on fully democratic non-ethnic basis. A large degree of autonomy is definitely appropriate.

Kreshnik you said;

"Everyone knows there is no such thing as 'international law'. Any law that cannot be enforced is not a law. "

- would this be your definition of how to protect the human rights of all non-Albanians?

Clearly with this insight I guess little has changed.

Looking forward to the UN security council decision - lets just see but once again no independence - no mention of it let alone a date - why not?

Tadić: Independence unacceptable.»

Not defering Mladic, Karadzic and other war criminals to The Hague is also unacceptable, Mister President. ANd I would add that it is because of your policies, and Kostunica's policies, that Mladic is free, and you should be ashamed of it!

As for the Albanians from Kosovo, they would be better off than with people like you!

No matter how we interpret phrases and euphemisms, one thing is clear: Serbia has lost Kosovo and for that it has only itself to blame. Yes, the leaders in Belgrade cite international law, but isn't law meant for just thosae who break it? Serbia lost its legitimacy over Kossovo once its leaders began mass expulsion, burning, raping, killing, and covering it up, so the international community would not intervene. Whta puzzles me is the very tragic truth that it did against its own citizens, which now wishes to have under rule one more time. I don't think that would happen. No matter what Russia says and does Kossovo is on the road to statehood, albeit, supervised statehood. Whether Serbia recognizes that fact would greatly influence the future of both nations. Sure, it's not easy to say, "Let bygones be bygones," but Serbia has no other viable alternative. It has already become clearly impossible for that nation to govern 2 mil. Albanians who only a few years ago suffered a tragedy at the hands of their co-nationals/citizens. Hence, it's better, although painful, for both sides to change the rapport. From ruler and vassal to neighbors. One more thing. I strongly believe that once both sides recognize and respect each other as neighbors, Albanians will be able to shop on Sundays in Nis and Belgrade, and Serbs will be able to do the same in Pristina. If Serbia refuses to do that, then Kossovans will have to travel in the newly being constructed highway to Tirana and spend their monies there. That would really be the worst alternative for Belgrade.

Just wondering if Kosovo Albanians have yet decided what kind of flag and national anthem will they use for the new Independent state, and also how will they call their new country. I would be a little disappointed if in their new flag is not included something, a sign, that will show their appreciation to the US an EU. But I also think that it is the time for Kosovo Serbs to join the Kosovo negotiating team and have they say on this and other important issues that will affect their future in the new state.
Thanks guys , thanks B-92.

nonsense, Serbia can not be trusted to rule Kosovo after 1999, it has constantly proven to the world that it is incapable of ruling Kosovo.

oh and Bob, we dont care if you are past the Milosevic time, we dont care if you are democratic or radical, in fact if you go radical it would make our job a whole lot easier.

the fact is, we and i personally have never considered ourselves Serbian citizens, never once in my life did i consider myself a Serbian citizen.

Ahtisari did not bring us our independence, in our hearts we have been independent since we were born.

we dont care if milosevic, tadic or natasa kandic is in power in Serbia. We do not want to have anything to do with you.

we will only cooperate as neighbours and nothing else.

Its time Serbia to wake up and to think for his proper way ,move to look Kosova ,dont dream for the land which never belongs to serbia take care of your people in serbia state and Kosovars will take care for their people .Dont dream and make more myths for Kosova.I wish you one day to be democratic state like Kosova will be .2Febr.07 was the end of dreams the end of bad economy so pls let we start to work like two neighbours states Kosova State and Serbia state.No more Blood no more sufering look in the future.and learn from all happend in Kosova never repeat it again. All the best.

Bob not to start a flame war but, how can you "bomb for humanitarian reasons" the west is so full of hypocracies and propaganda that it is disgusting. What if all of the mexicans in California decided they would like to form their own state separate from the US. This is essentially the same thing.

By Ahtisaari's reasoning, Republika Srpska MUST be next in line for its own independence. KOS-MET is SERBIA and always will be no matter what someone proposes!!!

to (Nick, 3 February 2007, 00:36)

Do you consider yourself Albanian? You should be loyal to your foster country Serbia. If you and your people don't like it you should move back to Albania! It appears this proposal would create a reason for minorities in other countries to do the same such as: South Americans in California, 10 million Muslims in France, the Macedonians and Turks in Greece, the Roma in Bulgaria, the Tartars in Bulgaria, Russia and Ukraine etc. I'm a proud Macedonian loyal to my country regardless of my ancestors background (which happens to be Albanian). Evey US citizen is loyal to USA. Why can't Kosovars be loyal to Serbia? Its one thing to ask for human rights and another to claim independance by force! Is it true Albanians do not like Kosovar's even though you are the same religion?

Marko

"What if all of the mexicans in California decided they would like to form their own state separate from the US. This is essentially the same thing." - MExicans have moved to california in the last few decades.

alabanians have been living in kosovo for centuries, and way before serbs!!

MKD

"Do you consider yourself Albanian? You should be loyal to your foster country Serbia. If you and your people don't like it you should move back to Albania! " - the above comment goes for you as well.

Nick wrote:
"the fact is, we and i personally have never considered ourselves Serbian citizens, never once in my life did i consider myself a Serbian citizen.

Ahtisari did not bring us our independence, in our hearts we have been independent since we were born."

Oh my God!!! For once somebody has admitted it. So are you so surprised what happened after Holbrooke had got you poor chaps to sign on for bombing?

The majority of Albanians CHOSE to be separatists, and never ONCE respected the state they lived in. You claim to be democratic, and EU bound, but i doubt that a single Albanian in Macedonia , Montenegro respects the roof under which they live..

Your actions prove it. Rather than living as neighbours, you choose to live separately AND with suspicion. It's the Albanians who built the walls of suspicion and hatred..

Believe me, Milosevic didn't care about your ethnicity. He cared about Milosevic first and foremost. In fact, his personal honour guards and special forces would also be Albanian. Albanians would be beating Serbs with billy-bats in downtown Belgrade if you had co-operated with the state..You'd have been his personal Gurkas.

So go ahead, blame the Serbs for what they did in 1999, they seem to be paying for it dearly.

Seems to me that the only people here claiming statehood due to nationality and purism are the Albanians..

The fact is there will be no independence for Kosovo. It is illegal, there are too many secession movements around the world that would use it as a precedent, it would in fact create a 'greater Albania', and Serbia would impose an economic blockade were this even tried. Serbia is much more important to Europe than 2 million albanians in Kosovo, and Albania is third world country and the backwater of Europe. That's the true reality. All you Serb haters would love for Kosovo would get independence, I know, but the fact is that it's never going to happen. Get real.

Dragan,
merked your words. See you the day after I-Day. Cheers

to pijetro:

I am really disappointed reading such comments like the one Nick has written. I mean this abyss of ignorance!

they almost seem to need someone who tells them by force what is right.

independence seems to float down the river, they just don´t get it yet.

that proposal is worthless when it is veto-ed. can´t you finally understand that?

and then, if the EU shows a lack of consensus, I just want to read your comments about that point since you are avoiding to respond on this even if it is obvious.

the bottom-line is:
no SC-consensus - no independence

no EU-consensus-
no independence

what will the Albanians do?
on the one side I hope they will finally come to the sound conclusion that they cannot go on with allegations and threats. on the other side I hope it won´t happen, but if so, if they really should dare to use violence as a means for their goals, I would like to see NATO acting. and I would say it like in a sports-apparel advertisement: just do it!

things are going a good way. since yesterday I am quite confident, but today Poland said the KiM-issue should be solved inside Serbia,
that of course doesn´t matter to the Albanians, since they still believe what they have been told for years...

Pjetro,

For every nasty comment i write i get at least three "go to Albania" comments from Serbs, so it seems i am winning in blag's "who's more radical" game.

Whether we chose to be separatists or not is a matter of prespective, while you think we were chose to be separatists i believe we were simply taking back what was ours.

Jovan,

i am one of the most moderate albanians you will even talk to, i was trying to be as simple as possible, so that i could make as more sense as i possibly can to people such as you. You call me ignorant and yet you fail to see what is right in front of your eyes.

You people try to hide behind legal and economical arguements because you have no moral right to Kosovo and you know it.

"...like it or not, the Serbs still have a significant say in what happens...."

Yes you do..only your 'say' is confined to serbia's future as a nation...what you 'say' re. Kosova determines your future for the next century. Keep that in mind.

Kreshnick, so you reply to Marko's comment;

Marko

"What if all of the mexicans in California decided they would like to form their own state separate from the US. This is essentially the same thing." - MExicans have moved to california in the last few decades.

alabanians have been living in kosovo for centuries, and way before serbs!!

- you fail to realise that the spanish descendents - Mexicans have been living in California long before any WASP (white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) Americans and for that matter the US states of New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming & Florida - read up on the Transcontinental Treaty of 1819 when Mexico was still part of Spain. So I guess you would want the Mexicans the same precedent!