“U.S. to talk to Macedonia under that name”

I can't understand Greece on this issue. Leave poor Macedonia alone!

Cool Article, well written and blunt. It's a shame that these two countries that were once so close are now so far apart, all because of fear and lack of acceptance from Greece. All history majors know about the treaty of Bucharest......... Grow up.

macedonia is macedonia,and greece is greece,they r seperate countries,greece cant change the macedonian name its the macedonians government decision not greece, leave macedonia alone, and let the ppl be free, for history,alexander the great didnt know how to speak greek, he only spoked ancient macedonian, ancient macedonians are not greeks! greece has no right to change no ones name, its macedonia and always will be macedonia

Do all Nato members need to approve a new applicant for membership? If yes, I don't see how Macedonia can enter Nato with Greek opposition.

I dont get why a country that speaks bulgarian, is consisted of ethnic Bulgarians Slavs and Albanians want to be called Macedonia. The only Macedonian thing in that country is that it occupies about 15% of what used to be the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia.

The sooner Greece rids itself of its childish behaviour the sooner the region will progress. Im quiet surprised that all those EU countries do not pressure them into accepting reality. The EU seems to be absurd, a bunch of hypocritics endorsing doublestandards to suit the boys.

One can understand the need of people of different backgrounds, cultures, religions and so on, to adopt a common name, in order to show that they have something in common and they can thus declare their right to a country. Indeed, everyone has the right to a country of their own, but in the long run that country will fall apart, if it does not have and does not accept its true identity. FYROM is partly located on what was ancient Macedonia indeed, but as it developed over time it has no cultural roots or historical ties to Macedonia. That is Macedonia of Alexander the Great, who united all Greeks to conquer Persia and who got as far as India and Egypt and wrote history... That is also Macedonia of modern times, with its population rejecting the Turkish rulers, fighting for freedom from the Slavs who would give an arm and a leg to gain access to the Aegean and also partcipating in the battles of the IIWW, and trying- although largely unsuccessfuly - to protect its Jewish population from the Nazis... That is also, Macedonia of the Christian, Byzantine tradition and indeed of the minorities, which were there better treated than anywhere else in the area, such as was the case with Greek minorities in neighboring to Greece countries, which vanished violently from the face of the earth. We, Greeks, have no problem with FYROM being in existance, if that is the determination of its population. Let that population though look deep into defining its identity and realize that stealing another's - that of Macedonia, with the Greek tradition and language, which was not slav - will only lead them to a dead end! Really, have you ever visited, Macedonia, the region of Northern Greece, to see the written (in Greek of course and on marble, ancient marble) documents, of its identity? At the end of the day, I feel sorry for people who do not know who they are, because they will also never know where they want to go and how to be happy! I saw hate in other messages to your site and that makes me feel very sorry...

Take a look at mainstream history:

1500 years of Slavs living in Balkan, mixing in with the local population…1913-1923 Greek Macedonia is almost empty the reason is the great population exchange! 90 years of Turkish speaking Christians in today’s so-called northern Greek province of Macedonia, today these people call them selves Greek Macedonians…

In 90 years you can call yourself a Macedonian but for 1500 years you can’t!??? Yes, I can see who the real Macedonians are….

For all those Greek Macedonian:
If the roots of the Greek world lie in the Mycenaean period, but Macedonia is not part the Mycenaean world, where are the Greek roots of Macedonia? Answer: there isn’t any..
Maybe the Hellenization period! This term used to describe a cultural change in which something non-Greek becomes Greek. During the classical period, there was the alleged hellenization of the Ancient Macedonians, as well as other peoples, such as Thracians, Dardanians, Paionians and Illyrians So in that case everything north of modern day Greece right up to Serbia and a bit beyond it’s all Greek!

The 4000 years of Greek History propaganda has got to your heads.
Btw Macedonia had 4 great wars with Rome, do you know what they were called?
Answers: The Macedonian Wars…. Sorry nothing Greek about that.

Most people commenting don't know the recent history. Many Macedonians, as they call themselves today, were expelled from the Greek part during the civil war in 1948. When I meet Macedonians today, many of them mention their family's roots in Greece. The simple fact is, many Macedonians still harbor memories of the Greek side, and they see Salonika as formerly "their" city. Maybe they have a right to. But many outside readers should understand that the government of FYROM/Macedonia (call it what you will) still has irredentist visions of recapturing the north of Greece. It's in their constitution, it's on their money (the white castle of Saolinka) and on their maps. This is what Greece is fighting against. They don't want to see the next Kosovo War happening inside its borders. With all the population exchanges in the early 20th century, that area lost its Slav/Bulgar population, and gained a Greek population that was kicked out of Romania/Bulgaira and Turkey. Do you people understand the issue now? If Macedonia ever completely renounced their designs on Greece, I'd say then that Greece would have a very hard time fighting the name. But they haven't. They still claim it, something which even an enemy of Greece like Henry Kissinger understands.

RE: Hellenic Macedonia

When Quebec, Canada seperates, maybe they should change their name and call themselves Paris. The Parisians would have a heart attack.

The regions that makes up FYROM is made up of Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks, there are NO Macedonians. Alexander the Great was Greek, Hellenic and Macedonian. The Macedonian Slavs traditions and history are linked to the Slavs and Albanians.

If you are Macedonian, you are Greek not Slav.

Nikolas Martis has several books on Four Thousands Years of Hellenic Greek History.

We now have the Albanians claiming they are "Illyrians" in order to assume ownership of Southeastern European Land.

The Bulgars are actually an Asiatic tribe who mixed with the Slavic population and eventually became Slavs themselves.If Switzerland calls itself Helvetia does this mean that it has aspirations over Roman land?The present day people in this area of the Balkans have come to identify themselves as Macedonians regardless of the fact that no Slavs lived there during the time of Alexander.Identities change/develop/evolve over time so I say it is fruitless to tell a person what to consider/call himself.

From history:
The Macedonian king Alexander the Great was not understood by the Greeks when he shouted an order in his native tongue and the Greek commander Eumenes needed a translator to address the soldiers of the Macedonian phalanx. The Greek orators Thrasymachus of Chalcedon and Demosthenes of Athens called Macedonian kings like Archelaus and Philip II barbarians, which prima facie means that they did not speak Greek.

Alexandar The Great (Macedonian) and Aristotelus are not Greeks,sorry this is real history ,not fix Greek history.
Greek history is totaly fix last 200 years.
Hellens are Greeks or not the qustion is now ,but if they are, Hellens and Macedonians
are so far to be the same.
Sorry this is are history fakts and do't falce the real history

I SUPPORT GREECE!! OUR FRIENDS!!THANK YOU!!

Yes they were called the "Macedonian Wars".. Macedonian royalty claimed descendants from Heracles.

Macedonia was never a "democratic" state until recent times. It has always been a "monarchy" it was a late developer but nonethe less it adopted the best of Athens and Sparta and has nothing to do with any Bulgarians.

Futhermore,

When the Christian refugees migrated to Macedonia the total population in Macedonia according to the 1925 League of Naions report was 1.3 million.

Considering that 500.000 Christian refugees settled in Macedonia there were already 800.000 indigenous Greeks in Makedonia.

I am sorry if the truth hurts

I am also sorry for the lack of political and intellectual integrity on this issue.

I hope for a better future.

Firslty, there isn't any article in the Macedonian Constitution about the ideas, wishes or plans that Macedonian people have over taking back the Aegean Macedonia (i.e. Northern part of Former Turkish Emirate of Greece).

The schizophrenic politics of Athens is just another brick in the wall (greetings to Pink Floyd). C'mon people, relax...

Former Turkish Emirate of Greece will have to accept USA's and outer world's common sense

:D

I am sorry, but you can not have a name that does not belong to you.

the word "Macedonia" is etymolgically Greek and means nothing in your language

Again, I hope one this lack of political and intellectual integrity subsides.

Cheers neighbour.

come to identify themselves as Macedonians regardless of the fact that no Slavs lived there during the time of Alexander.Identities change/develop/evolve over time so I say it is fruitless to tell a person what to consider/call himself.
(luciano, 2 February 2007, 21:57

I beg to differ, The Republic of Macedonia was created by TITO after WWII. The Greek government at the time did not oppose as it was under a civil war and the republic of Macedonia was under the Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia.

The so called Macedonia ideal actually started in the early 20th century under the Bulgarian Organization called IMRO who in some circles are blamed for the assasination of King Alexander Karadjeordjevic in Marseilles France in 1932.

The IMRO goal was to create a greater "Macedonian state" and identity by seizing land from Bulgaria, Greece and the Kingdom of Yugoslava.

The IMRO used the "Macedonian" name to create the drive to enact their policies. Gligorov seized on this and pushed through the independance of FYROM for the federation of Yugoslavia.

I dont think mixing Scottish , Irish or English history would much be appreciated by those groups in the UK.

I can not understand this craziness.. I’m Macedonian my grand father was Macedonian.. and so on.. Greeks were always torturing and they still are continuing to do it.. there are so many facts to prove that people from R. Macedonia are Macedonian and they will not give their name; same as if the Greeks were asked from an bigger power to change their name they will not…I think it is stupid..
fyi… most of the greeks who live now in Macedonia are new settlers last 90yrs.. since the Macedonians who speak slav were kicked out from their homes and made refugees; However I don’t care and nobody in Macedonia cares for the past. Lets look at the future and lets be united Europe instead of divided I love Greece and hope Greece respects that this is the choice of the people of Macedonia to be called the way they wanted.

100% macedonia will never be greek,the world knows its not greek,the truth will come out sooner or later,sorry for the dissapointment greeks :)

You people must be ignorant or just are denying it bc you all are from FYROM yourselves. You got to be kidding me! Alexander wasnt greek? He didnt speak Greek? Aristotle wasnt Greek? Have you people been to the REAL MACEDONIA (MAKEDONIA) to see the thousands of archealogical pieces? VERGINA? What if canada decided to name itself The United States? Name principle. Keep on wasting your false words on a subject that you all have totally mixed up in your heads. READ A HISTORY BOOK! Also btw, did you know that Constantinople is Greek (istabul for you who didnt go to school). Greece has been cheated by people of turkish and slavic race but in the end will one day come away the stronger side as we always do, from the beg. of time until the end.

I can't understand Greece on this issue. Leave poor Macedonia alone!

Cool Article, well written and blunt. It's a shame that these two countries that were once so close are now so far apart, all because of fear and lack of acceptance from Greece. All history majors know about the treaty of Bucharest......... Grow up.

macedonia is macedonia,and greece is greece,they r seperate countries,greece cant change the macedonian name its the macedonians government decision not greece, leave macedonia alone, and let the ppl be free, for history,alexander the great didnt know how to speak greek, he only spoked ancient macedonian, ancient macedonians are not greeks! greece has no right to change no ones name, its macedonia and always will be macedonia

Do all Nato members need to approve a new applicant for membership? If yes, I don't see how Macedonia can enter Nato with Greek opposition.

I dont get why a country that speaks bulgarian, is consisted of ethnic Bulgarians Slavs and Albanians want to be called Macedonia. The only Macedonian thing in that country is that it occupies about 15% of what used to be the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia.

The sooner Greece rids itself of its childish behaviour the sooner the region will progress. Im quiet surprised that all those EU countries do not pressure them into accepting reality. The EU seems to be absurd, a bunch of hypocritics endorsing doublestandards to suit the boys.

One can understand the need of people of different backgrounds, cultures, religions and so on, to adopt a common name, in order to show that they have something in common and they can thus declare their right to a country. Indeed, everyone has the right to a country of their own, but in the long run that country will fall apart, if it does not have and does not accept its true identity. FYROM is partly located on what was ancient Macedonia indeed, but as it developed over time it has no cultural roots or historical ties to Macedonia. That is Macedonia of Alexander the Great, who united all Greeks to conquer Persia and who got as far as India and Egypt and wrote history... That is also Macedonia of modern times, with its population rejecting the Turkish rulers, fighting for freedom from the Slavs who would give an arm and a leg to gain access to the Aegean and also partcipating in the battles of the IIWW, and trying- although largely unsuccessfuly - to protect its Jewish population from the Nazis... That is also, Macedonia of the Christian, Byzantine tradition and indeed of the minorities, which were there better treated than anywhere else in the area, such as was the case with Greek minorities in neighboring to Greece countries, which vanished violently from the face of the earth. We, Greeks, have no problem with FYROM being in existance, if that is the determination of its population. Let that population though look deep into defining its identity and realize that stealing another's - that of Macedonia, with the Greek tradition and language, which was not slav - will only lead them to a dead end! Really, have you ever visited, Macedonia, the region of Northern Greece, to see the written (in Greek of course and on marble, ancient marble) documents, of its identity? At the end of the day, I feel sorry for people who do not know who they are, because they will also never know where they want to go and how to be happy! I saw hate in other messages to your site and that makes me feel very sorry...

Take a look at mainstream history:

1500 years of Slavs living in Balkan, mixing in with the local population…1913-1923 Greek Macedonia is almost empty the reason is the great population exchange! 90 years of Turkish speaking Christians in today’s so-called northern Greek province of Macedonia, today these people call them selves Greek Macedonians…

In 90 years you can call yourself a Macedonian but for 1500 years you can’t!??? Yes, I can see who the real Macedonians are….

For all those Greek Macedonian:
If the roots of the Greek world lie in the Mycenaean period, but Macedonia is not part the Mycenaean world, where are the Greek roots of Macedonia? Answer: there isn’t any..
Maybe the Hellenization period! This term used to describe a cultural change in which something non-Greek becomes Greek. During the classical period, there was the alleged hellenization of the Ancient Macedonians, as well as other peoples, such as Thracians, Dardanians, Paionians and Illyrians So in that case everything north of modern day Greece right up to Serbia and a bit beyond it’s all Greek!

The 4000 years of Greek History propaganda has got to your heads.
Btw Macedonia had 4 great wars with Rome, do you know what they were called?
Answers: The Macedonian Wars…. Sorry nothing Greek about that.

Most people commenting don't know the recent history. Many Macedonians, as they call themselves today, were expelled from the Greek part during the civil war in 1948. When I meet Macedonians today, many of them mention their family's roots in Greece. The simple fact is, many Macedonians still harbor memories of the Greek side, and they see Salonika as formerly "their" city. Maybe they have a right to. But many outside readers should understand that the government of FYROM/Macedonia (call it what you will) still has irredentist visions of recapturing the north of Greece. It's in their constitution, it's on their money (the white castle of Saolinka) and on their maps. This is what Greece is fighting against. They don't want to see the next Kosovo War happening inside its borders. With all the population exchanges in the early 20th century, that area lost its Slav/Bulgar population, and gained a Greek population that was kicked out of Romania/Bulgaira and Turkey. Do you people understand the issue now? If Macedonia ever completely renounced their designs on Greece, I'd say then that Greece would have a very hard time fighting the name. But they haven't. They still claim it, something which even an enemy of Greece like Henry Kissinger understands.

RE: Hellenic Macedonia

When Quebec, Canada seperates, maybe they should change their name and call themselves Paris. The Parisians would have a heart attack.

The regions that makes up FYROM is made up of Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks, there are NO Macedonians. Alexander the Great was Greek, Hellenic and Macedonian. The Macedonian Slavs traditions and history are linked to the Slavs and Albanians.

If you are Macedonian, you are Greek not Slav.

Nikolas Martis has several books on Four Thousands Years of Hellenic Greek History.

We now have the Albanians claiming they are "Illyrians" in order to assume ownership of Southeastern European Land.

The Bulgars are actually an Asiatic tribe who mixed with the Slavic population and eventually became Slavs themselves.If Switzerland calls itself Helvetia does this mean that it has aspirations over Roman land?The present day people in this area of the Balkans have come to identify themselves as Macedonians regardless of the fact that no Slavs lived there during the time of Alexander.Identities change/develop/evolve over time so I say it is fruitless to tell a person what to consider/call himself.

From history:
The Macedonian king Alexander the Great was not understood by the Greeks when he shouted an order in his native tongue and the Greek commander Eumenes needed a translator to address the soldiers of the Macedonian phalanx. The Greek orators Thrasymachus of Chalcedon and Demosthenes of Athens called Macedonian kings like Archelaus and Philip II barbarians, which prima facie means that they did not speak Greek.

Alexandar The Great (Macedonian) and Aristotelus are not Greeks,sorry this is real history ,not fix Greek history.
Greek history is totaly fix last 200 years.
Hellens are Greeks or not the qustion is now ,but if they are, Hellens and Macedonians
are so far to be the same.
Sorry this is are history fakts and do't falce the real history

I SUPPORT GREECE!! OUR FRIENDS!!THANK YOU!!

Yes they were called the "Macedonian Wars".. Macedonian royalty claimed descendants from Heracles.

Macedonia was never a "democratic" state until recent times. It has always been a "monarchy" it was a late developer but nonethe less it adopted the best of Athens and Sparta and has nothing to do with any Bulgarians.

Futhermore,

When the Christian refugees migrated to Macedonia the total population in Macedonia according to the 1925 League of Naions report was 1.3 million.

Considering that 500.000 Christian refugees settled in Macedonia there were already 800.000 indigenous Greeks in Makedonia.

I am sorry if the truth hurts

I am also sorry for the lack of political and intellectual integrity on this issue.

I hope for a better future.

Firslty, there isn't any article in the Macedonian Constitution about the ideas, wishes or plans that Macedonian people have over taking back the Aegean Macedonia (i.e. Northern part of Former Turkish Emirate of Greece).

The schizophrenic politics of Athens is just another brick in the wall (greetings to Pink Floyd). C'mon people, relax...

Former Turkish Emirate of Greece will have to accept USA's and outer world's common sense

:D

I am sorry, but you can not have a name that does not belong to you.

the word "Macedonia" is etymolgically Greek and means nothing in your language

Again, I hope one this lack of political and intellectual integrity subsides.

Cheers neighbour.

come to identify themselves as Macedonians regardless of the fact that no Slavs lived there during the time of Alexander.Identities change/develop/evolve over time so I say it is fruitless to tell a person what to consider/call himself.
(luciano, 2 February 2007, 21:57

I beg to differ, The Republic of Macedonia was created by TITO after WWII. The Greek government at the time did not oppose as it was under a civil war and the republic of Macedonia was under the Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia.

The so called Macedonia ideal actually started in the early 20th century under the Bulgarian Organization called IMRO who in some circles are blamed for the assasination of King Alexander Karadjeordjevic in Marseilles France in 1932.

The IMRO goal was to create a greater "Macedonian state" and identity by seizing land from Bulgaria, Greece and the Kingdom of Yugoslava.

The IMRO used the "Macedonian" name to create the drive to enact their policies. Gligorov seized on this and pushed through the independance of FYROM for the federation of Yugoslavia.

I dont think mixing Scottish , Irish or English history would much be appreciated by those groups in the UK.

I can not understand this craziness.. I’m Macedonian my grand father was Macedonian.. and so on.. Greeks were always torturing and they still are continuing to do it.. there are so many facts to prove that people from R. Macedonia are Macedonian and they will not give their name; same as if the Greeks were asked from an bigger power to change their name they will not…I think it is stupid..
fyi… most of the greeks who live now in Macedonia are new settlers last 90yrs.. since the Macedonians who speak slav were kicked out from their homes and made refugees; However I don’t care and nobody in Macedonia cares for the past. Lets look at the future and lets be united Europe instead of divided I love Greece and hope Greece respects that this is the choice of the people of Macedonia to be called the way they wanted.

100% macedonia will never be greek,the world knows its not greek,the truth will come out sooner or later,sorry for the dissapointment greeks :)

You people must be ignorant or just are denying it bc you all are from FYROM yourselves. You got to be kidding me! Alexander wasnt greek? He didnt speak Greek? Aristotle wasnt Greek? Have you people been to the REAL MACEDONIA (MAKEDONIA) to see the thousands of archealogical pieces? VERGINA? What if canada decided to name itself The United States? Name principle. Keep on wasting your false words on a subject that you all have totally mixed up in your heads. READ A HISTORY BOOK! Also btw, did you know that Constantinople is Greek (istabul for you who didnt go to school). Greece has been cheated by people of turkish and slavic race but in the end will one day come away the stronger side as we always do, from the beg. of time until the end.