Ahtisaari: UN Security Council to decide status

Finally Kosovo is FREE. As it was expected and our dignity is at his place. Now we can live happy ever after with serbs, albanians and maybe greeks.

P.S. Respect for this news agency. It's independent

Ahtisaari's proposal keeps the door open to Kosovo's independence although he dared not put that word down anywhere in his proposal. I doubt it will survive the UN Security Council in its present form.

Meanwhile lots of things can happen apart from Belgrade's rejection: K-Serbs declaring secesssion in the north, which Pristina hopes Nato will put down because they are not able to do this themselves. Yes, the US and UK will publicly condemn but will not dare to put down the K-Serb rebellion because they have no stomach for yet another war or civilian bloodbath, especially with the whole world watching. The result will be de facto partition.

As it is, more and more in the West are now looking at partition more indulgently.

I'm in Kosovo, in a Serbian enclave. There is a risk that the plan is creating, in that it may prompt yet another mass exodus of Serbians and Roma from Kosovo like they did in the early 80s.

lowe kosovo will NEVER get indiependence, this is clear for months. and athisaari isn´t helpfull for the albanians at all, because he spitted russia into their face.

the only question open is, will albanians do us all a favour and play the violent card! if they do so, nearly one million serb refugees will find a new home in south serbia.

It is funny to watch the back and forth on this site. Does anyone realize that this is a draft proposal that now goes on to the Security Council where it may be vetoed leading to who knows what kind of craziness. Or ammended in some shape or form (probably "down" because there is no room to ammend it "up"). And after that it still requires the agreement of both parties to avoid even more craziness.

I'm in Kosovo, in a Serbian enclave. There is a risk that the plan is creating, in that it may prompt yet another mass exodus of Serbians and Roma from Kosovo like they did in the early 80s.
(UNMIK, 2 February 2007, 13:31)
LMAO Now the Serbs are playing the we-are-deeply-worried-for-the-fate-of-the-poor-Roma card. Look at us Serbs how tolerant and Gypsy-loving we are unlike the evil intolerant anthropoid Albanians who are intolerant and don't love the poor Gypsies like we do.
You Serbs come up with something better coz this ain't working.

Either way the Serbs are going to end as the major losers. If Russia vetoes the UNSC resolution then we will end up which what Tim Judah just called the "nightmare scenario"

He suggests that is there is no UNSC resolution than

- the k Albanians may declare independence anyways and get recondition from the US and EU,
- the northern Kosovo Serbs will also declare independence.

According to him that would render Ahtisaari's proposal useless and the southern Serbs wont have any protection and will either have to leave of be ethnically cleansed.

----------------------------

Serbs, you have lost Kosovo anyways, try to be constructive and work for a better future for both our peoples, your radical and nationalist ideas will get you nowhere.

- Independent Kosovo
- International supervision
- Unprecedented autonomy for the Serbian municipalies
- Protection of Serbian monasteries and holy sites
- Freedom to move from Kosovo to Serbia unharmed.
- Dual citizenship which means you can still remain citizens of Serbia

Take the time to think these through in a rational and reasonable manner and hopefully you will come to the conclusion that Independent Kosovo is not that bad.

What other choice do we have anyways, the alternative is WAR, and I am sure neither of us wants that.

To the Internet Serbian Warriors:
Serbian Internet warriors are by far the blood thrstiest, but the only thing I cant understand and I’m concerned about right now is, Why? Serbian democrats are HIJACKED and have been hijacked for decades by those blood thirstiest Serbs!!!
Dear democrats don’t leave those people In your name to preach hate and threat your neighbors.
I hope that Albanians from Kosova don’t make a link between Serbs from Kosova and those Serb’s who’s all the time supporting and preaching violence.
I know that most of you that read this will attempt to butcher and criticize my remarks. I encourage you to do so, but I also encourage you to criticize your own marks and views just as closely.

If the UNSC decides the final status of Kosovo, that can only mean the resolution will have to be so filtered down as to become acceptable to all veto-holding powers. Just look at UN Resolutions on Iraq or Iran, and you'll find that anything that passes has to be favorable to the Chinese, the Russians and the French, to the point that when something does pass the original intentions have all but been replaced, or so diluted in legal mumbo jumbo as to make anything tangible in that resolution toothless and vague beyond recognition. Ahtisaari did his job like a good little civil servant, and can now retire back to Finland, write his memoirs about how he did the best he could and blame any repercussions on incalcitrant politicians. It's therefore no surprise the stipulations in this solution package speaks out of both sides of the mouth and can be interpreted in multiple ways.

"According to him that would render Ahtisaari's proposal useless and the southern Serbs wont have any protection and will either have to leave of be ethnically cleansed.
Serbs, you have lost Kosovo anyways, try to be constructive and work for a better future for both our peoples"
and
"Take the time to think these through in a rational and reasonable manner..."

Nick, I am one of those Serbs to whom you speak. Everybody in international community and in former Yugoslavia swore by the "republics".
Agim Ceku himself, by his own statements at the time, fought in Croatia, for principle of inviolability of the borders of the republic of Croatia and supported the idea of borders of Yugoslavian republics being unchangable.
If the remaining Serbs "have to leave of be ethnically cleansed." you go ahead and do that.
I don't think that it would lead to WAR even in that case.
But, nobody can ask Serbs (especially not Ceku) to be "constructive" and to "think these through in a rational and reasonable manner", because there is nothing to think about.

Jarina, you call Serbs "blood thirsty", now you dont see us catagorizing Albanians as "nomads" do you? Serbs arent posting comments about how Albanians really dont have a national identity and steal other nations histories and try to pass it as they're own. Your remarks are useless and very difficult to understand.

Thank you B92 for allowing us to express our opinions. It is only by hearing each others stories and arguments that we can hope to one day if not agree at least understand each other. If the previous Serbian regimes had used your approach, I am sure that what happened to both our peoples could have been easily avoided.

Nick wrote:
"Serbs, you have lost Kosovo anyways, try to be constructive and work for a better future for both our peoples, your radical and nationalist ideas will get you nowhere."

To all Albanian posters...The Kosovo issue is not related to some sort of Ultranationalism, or radicalism like everybody is saying..It's the indirect result outside interferance of Serbs right for self administration in Krajina, Rep.Srpska, and Kosovo..Unfortunately, the K-Albanians are bearing the brunt of Serb individual grievances currently..

If anything, it's Albanian nationalism that's gone above and beyond whatever Serbian nationlism has done, in theory AND in practice..

Truly, the Serbs in Kosovo are the main concern for Serbia..Not some sort of monsterous claim like everybody suggests...

Belgrade realizes that they don't have the means to control Pristina. By the time some sort of new symbolic flag or claim of Kosovo is created, it'll be 70 years too late..By the time you wake up from your hangover, you'll realize that it's a global economy, and both you and Serbia will be small fish in a big pond..

What's worse, Kosovo will be more attached to Serbia economically than Albania..
So rather that poking fun at Serbian individualism and collectivism, i'd suggest some more maturity on the Albanian side..
You never know what will happen in a generation, so nobody should "Burn their bridges", so to speak.
The better cards are in Albanian hands. Play them wisely...

sretem,

You have you read my post in context, i was not trying to promote the ethnic clensing of the southern serbs, i was merely quoting an article by Tim Judah who says that is what will happen if:

1. There is no UNSC resolution
2. The US & EU recondnize Kosovo anyways; and
3. Northern Kosovo declares independence that will enrage the k albanians.

Its only a scenario, nothing else.

Dont missunderstant me, i am totally against violence against the Kosovo Serbs.

Regarding the inviolability of bordes i would say that:

1. Kosovo had clearly defined borders under the Yugoslavia and although they were not republican borders they were close enough; and

2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens.

sretem,

You have you read my post in context, i was not trying to promote the ethnic cleansing of the southern Serbs, I was merely quoting an article by Tim Judah who says that is what will happen if:

1. There is no UNSC resolution
2. The US & EU recondite Kosovo anyways; and
3. Northern Kosovo declares independence that will enrage the k Albanians.

Its only a scenario, nothing else.

Don’t misunderstand me; I am totally against violence against the Kosovo Serbs.

Regarding the inviolability of borders i would say that:

1. Kosovo had clearly defined borders under the Yugoslavia and although they were not republican borders they were close enough; and

2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens.

So Athisarri is happy to put a draft proposal that he knows only too well will be vetoed. I guess the ethnic-Albanians are falling for more lies hook line and sinker. Wake up this is how they brush their hands of the sordid business they find themselves. Post veto - you guys declare - partition - US can recognise buty on what international grounds, EU will not be able to get involved and the black hole south of Mitrovica will be darker. Take a close look over the next few months at what Blag tried to tell you - maybe in the months to come some of you will realise but it will be too late.

calling the Serbs here "serbian internet warriors" is more than absurd.

it´s disqualifying. I have read a lot of threats here, but they were all, I repeat it , all made by albanian commentators, ...like "hell will brake loose" " no one in the world can prevent us of having our own state " and similar nonsense.

calling the Serbs here "serbian internet warriors" is more than absurd.
it´s disqualifying. jovan, 2 February 2007, 20:19)

Jovan, the problem is the Albanian commentors on B-92 are very defensive and have problems with facts and knowledge.

This is what they demand to hear:

(1) Albanians are true descendants from Illyria
(Not proven)

(2) The Serbian Orthodox Churches deserve to be grazed to the ground for the following reasons:

(a) Albanians were raped in Churches

(b) Christian Orthdox Churches were at one time Catholic or Mosques

(c) The Serbian Christian Orthodox Church was part of the state even though the Communists shut down many churches during Tito's reign.

(4) Kosovo somehow was stolen from Albania in 1912 even though Kosovo was part of Turkey?

(5) Innuendo that Kosovo was at some time Sovereign to Albania

(6) The Territorial Integrity of Serbia Under UN RESC 1244 is null and void because the former mini-Yugoslavia is now called Serbia.

(7) Kosovo is now free (Kosovo has been run by Kosovo Communist Leaders with substantial self government)

(8) Greece was NOT invaded by Albanians and Italians during WWII. So, all those Albanian prisoners taken by the Greeks was an illusion.

(9) Albania did not declare war against the US in 1939. (IT DID)

(1) Albania was on the "winning side" even though it declared war against the US in 1939.

(12) Rankovic is somehow a Fascist even though he was one of TITO's Communist Henchman.

(13) Albania is Economically superior to Serbia

(14) Ceku is not a terrorist

(15) KLA and UCK are freedom fighters who let UNESCO sites burn down .

(16) Slobodan Milosevic is to blame for everything that happened in Kosovo.

(17) Kosovo Albanians "won" the war.

(18) Serbia invaded Kosovo

You get the point.

Nick wrote: "1. Kosovo had clearly defined borders under the Yugoslavia and although they were not republican borders they were close enough; and

2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens."

Nick: Very poor arguments... if this is the best you have, i suggest you go back to the drawing board. Please allow me to point out how POINTLESS your arguments are.

1.) "close enough"??? well sorry but "close enough" isn't GOOD ENOUGH when its a countries sovereignty we're talking about. How about we just argue that the autonomy Serbia is offering the Albanians is "CLOSE ENOUGH"

2.) This is NOT law written anywhere but you state it as if it were. Anyhow it wouldn't matter anyways since GENOCIDE was NOT COMMITTED in Kosovo. 10,000 people died on ALL sides in two years of war. It was Serbian units VS KLA separatists (and ONLY after the KLA started murdered hundreds of policeman/civilians (Serbian AND Albanian).

PS: Was any Serbian official convicted of genocide? Or are you judging people now without a fair trial?

PPS: Did Croatia commit GENOCIDE against 300,000 Serbs who no longer live there? Or how about the USA in Iraq?

Independent Kosovo
- International supervision
- Unprecedented autonomy for the Serbian municipalies
- Protection of Serbian monasteries and holy sites
- Freedom to move from Kosovo to Serbia unharmed.
- Dual citizenship which means you can still remain citizens of Serbia (Nick, 2 February 2007, 14:56)

Unprecedented Autonomy for the Serbian Municipalities?

You make it sound like the Serbians never had representation in any of the Kosovo municipalities which is innaccurate. The problem is that they have been Ethncally cleansed by the KLA and UCK from most of the municipalities except Kosovo-Mitrovica.

Protection of Serbian Orthodox sites!! Five Orthodox churches in Prizren were burned down to the ground with UNMIK watching.

What makes you think they will be protected now??

UN resolution 1244 stipulated the return of Serbian police to the borders and around cultural sites. This was not upheld, why should any Serb government trust any agreement particularly coming from Ahtisaari who together with Russian mediater Cheryomedin pressured President Slobodan Milosevic to sign UN resolution 1244.

PS

Over 220,000 Serbs cleansed, 2500 Kosovo Serbs missing and not accounted for.

Current percentage of Serbs in Kosovo 3-5%, in 1981 it was 17%.

Princip, wake up! It will happen exactly the contrary of what Blag predicted. I told him and I'm telling you also, THIS IS NOT a Serbia vs. Kosovo game. And that blows up every Blag's fancy.
Are you sure it will be a veto? For whom is accustomed to the dynamics of UNSC a veto, very different from threating it, is a very unlikely event. Even if it happens, for the first time in the last 20 yrs., it's not as a huge problem as you try to figure it. Facts on the ground count.
Try better to understand the win-win outcome: everyone admits the new reality and tries to construct the best relations possible to the neighbour. Childish refusals bring nothing to no one. The train has left the station since 1999. Try to understand it.

“2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens.
(Nick, 2 February 2007, 16:16)”

Nick, by modern western standards, morally I would agree with you. However, Serbia was not a modern western European power. It was a dictatorship that dissolved into a brutal civil war during the struggle for power at a time in world politics when anarchy basically reigned because of the fall of the Soviet Union. Unfortunately the types of crimes that happened in Kosovo occur everyday around the world in many areas. While I agree that Serbia must accept a more severe punishment for the crimes committed during the Milosevic era if they wish to join the Western sphere of influence. However, I also feel that Serbia should not be held to as high a standard as a Modern Western European country. The Balkans are a brutal place, but as time goes on, the crimes are less severe. Hopefully, in time the violence will end and we can learn to live in peace with one another and focus on the big picture. In time Europe as a whole together will be fighting for economic dominance against the other major economies of the world and we will have more that binds us together then pulls us apart. In Modern Western capitalist countries money is far more important than blood.

I dont understand why (given Im just an albanian with very poor arguments), but I see an abstruse exasperation on the posts of most of the fellow serbs here. Some of them like Konstantin Gregovic, Pijetro and Obilic are loosing even their control and making lists of serb superiorities and albanian inferiorities.
Wake up, Russia is part of the contact group for Kosovo. Now, if Russia would have any intention of saving the status quo in Kosovo (as part of Serbia), its representative in the contact group wouldnt aprove the decision for charging Ahtisari work on a document like this we see here.
Kosovo is gone. It will be independent in a few weeks, recognized by USA, UK, France, and the rest of the EU. A little further it will be recognized by Russia which will be asked this little favor by Albania, for allowing Gazprom that pipeline russians are asking to build in its territory for reaching faster Italy, and for takin superiority in Albania's and Kosovo's oil (small but still available markets). And after a few years, even Serbia will do the same. Just as UK and Republic of Ireland reconciliated. Just like Greece and Turkey have this love-hate relationship. Just like many other antagonisms in the world smoothed out by the economic interests. Sooner we albanians and serbs will do that with each other, sooner we'll solve our bigger problem: economic development.
Cheers from Tirana.
Martin

To Kostantin Gregovic:
Im trying to give some answers to your famous list of what albanians demand to hear:

(1) Albanians are true descendants from Illyria
(Not proven)

(We dont demand to hear from you serbs. Your "scientists" are the onlys in the world not accepting this fact).

(2) The Serbian Orthodox Churches deserve to be grazed to the ground for the following reasons:

(Who told you that albanians demand the destruction of orthodox churches? I remind yoi that 25 percent of the albanians are orthodox. I ame half orthodox by the way. And your effort to present the ethnic antagonism for Kosovo as a relegious one, is null).


(4) Kosovo somehow was stolen from Albania in 1912 even though Kosovo was part of Turkey?

(In 1878, after one of the albanian rebellions, Turkey recognized the four albanian speaking Villayets (Shkodra, Manastir, Janina and Kosovo) as a unique unit under Ottoman Empire).

(5) Innuendo that Kosovo was at some time Sovereign to Albania

(We dont demand you to say that. We know that Kosovo was never sovereign to Albania. Serbs occupied it and commited there crimes raported by the whole world).

(6) The Territorial Integrity of Serbia Under UN RESC 1244 is null and void because the former mini-Yugoslavia is now called Serbia.

(Yes we demand you to say that. If you dont, we dont care. The rest of the world says that).

(7) Kosovo is now free (Kosovo has been run by Kosovo Communist Leaders with substantial self government)

(Yes, but that was Yugoslavia. The state of the southern slavs. Albanians are not slavs. So they were considered citizens of the second hand there.

(8) Greece was NOT invaded by Albanians and Italians during WWII. So, all those Albanian prisoners taken by the Greeks was an illusion.

(Yes, you should know that it was fascist Italy who invaded Greece in 1940. Albania was invaded by Italy earlier, and an invaded country cannot invade another one. This is a nonsense only serbs can make).

(9) Albania did not declare war against the US in 1939.

(Albania in 1939 was an occupied country).

(1) Albania was on the "winning side" even though it declared war against the US in 1939.

(The Paris conference accepts Albania as a antifascist winner country. Thanks God is not Serbia deciding who's what in the World).

(12) Rankovic is somehow a Fascist even though he was one of TITO's Communist Henchman.

(We consider a fascist whomever commited genocide and tryed to exterminate our people. Rankovic including. And Milosevic including, even he was leader of a left wing party).

(13) Albania is Economically superior to Serbia

(Accordin CIA World Factbook, Albanias GDP per capita is $ 5.600. And Serbia's $ 4.400. Now you decide who is living better).


(14) Ceku is not a terrorist

(No, we dont demand you to say Ceku is not a terrorist. We, and the rest of the World, expect you to say Arkan was a terrorist. Karadzic is a terrorist. Mladic is a terrorist. Sesel is a terrorist. Milosevic was a terrorist. And everybody supporting the same nationalist issues as them (including Kostunica, Tadic and everybody else in Serbia), is a terrorist.

(15) KLA and UCK are freedom fighters who let UNESCO sites burn down.

(No we demand you to say, that people are more important than stones).

(16) Slobodan Milosevic is to blame for everything that happened in Kosovo.

(No, we say Milosevic is not to blame for everything. We say the serbian society is to return a normal country. The serb shoolbooks freed by the nationalist rhetoric painting serbs like the center of the world. Serb church freed by the megalomany of Seria-uber-alles.)

(17) Kosovo Albanians "won" the war.

(You think not?)

(18) Serbia invaded Kosovo

(No, actually Serbia liberated Kosovo. Everybody there recieved Serb troops with flowers and since 1913 nobody never heard for a single tension on Kosovo).

>>We dont demand to hear from you serbs. Your "scientists" are the onlys in the world not accepting this fact).


my dear Martin...

it´s frightening to read your comment. Albanians are always claming the Serbs are living in a dream-world of myths and illusions.

quite the opposite is the reality:

todays Albanians are not the descendants of the Illyrians. you can repeat it as much as you want to, but...it won´t become the truth, sorry for you!
and I will just repeat it once more: it has nothing to do with "serbian scientists"... this whole crap about the illyrian ancestry is declared obsolete by american archeologists an historians.

why don´t you just research for yourself, instead of reading some nonsense-books, that are only decieving you...

and, albanians did not win even one war. they lost in WWI,in WW II, where they sided with the Nazis and lost again, and in ´99 you played almost no role, since it was an army of chickenthieves, to say it clear. the only ones who had a military education had enjoyed it in the former yugoslav army.

last but not least, the Nato-agression against the SRJ /FRY was ended by several agreements signed by the aggressor and the yugoslav side in Kumanovo.
since they feared the ground-war they looked forward to move in without being forced to take heavy losses.
so much for the "albanian" victory...

Martin, 3 February 2007, 13:45)

I rest my case, read Martin's comments and you can come up with your own conclusion, open up your history books, not the one's taught in Prisina University under the guise of Tito Politique.

RE:

(1) Clarification on the relationship betwen Italy and Albania

(2) The story of the good Kosovo-Albanians

King Zog of Albanina was installed and the country of Albania created through the direct intervention of Italy. Under Fascist Italy under Mussoloni, so he was removed and together they declared war against the United States et al and invaded Greece.

(2) Under the Kingdom Of Yugoslavia, the only trouble the Serbian Monarchy had was provocations from Albania proper. The true Kosovar-Albanians were loyal to the monarchy, in fact the caretakers and preservers of the Serbian Orthodox Monasteries and Churches. Some still are, what a disgrace the Albanian extremists, many allowed to flow through the Albania border to invoke the Hodza communist teachings which are anti-Christian and anti-Serb.

RE: GDP Per Capita-2006

The list is printed for the benefit of all. (Martin, you need to update your figures)Take note that Albania and Serbia are 100 & 101 respectively.

Albania has yet to recover from the Insurance scandals and hardline Envar Hodza state economy. The current leadership is increasing investment expenditure which leads most European nations, but will it bring results. Serbia's GDP forecast is excellent for 2007 and GDP growth is expected to be 5-7% , the fastest growing economy in Southeastern Europe.

Rank Country GDP (PPP)
$ per capita
1 Luxembourg 69,800
2 Norway 42,364
3 United States 41,399
4 Ireland 40,610
5 Iceland 35,115
6 Denmark 34,740
7 Canada 34,273
8 Hong Kong 33,479
9 Austria 33,432
10 Switzerland 32,571
11 Qatar 31,397
12 Belgium 31,244
13 Finland 31,208
14 Australia 30,897
15 Netherlands 30,862
16 Japan 30,615
17 Germany 30,579
18 United Kingdom 30,436
19 Sweden 29,926
20 France 29,187
21 Italy 28,534
22 Singapore 28,368
23 United Arab Emirates 27,957
24 Republic of China (Taiwan) 27,721
25 Spain 26,320
26 Brunei 24,948
27 New Zealand 24,797
28 Israel 23,474
29 Netherlands Antilles, Netherlands 22,750
30 Greece 22,392
31 Slovenia 21,808
32 Bahrain 21,565
33 Cyprus 21,177
34 South Korea 20,590
35 The Bahamas 20,076
36 Malta 19,739
37 Portugal 19,335
38 Czech Republic 18,341
39 Barbados 17,610
40 Oman 16,862
41 Hungary 16,823
42 Equatorial Guinea 16,507
43 Estonia 16,414
44 Kuwait 16,301
45 Slovakia 16,041
46 Saudi Arabia 15,229
47 Saint Kitts and Nevis 14,649
48 Trinidad and Tobago 14,258
49 Lithuania 14,158
50 Argentina 14,109
51 Poland 12,994
52 Mauritius 12,895
53 Latvia 12,666
54 Croatia 12,324
55 South Africa 12,161
56 Seychelles 12,059
57 Chile 11,937
58 Libya 11,624
59 Antigua and Barbuda 11,523
60 Botswana 11,410
61 Malaysia 11,201
62 Russia 11,041
63 Uruguay 10,720
64 Costa Rica 10,434
65 Mexico 10,186
66 Bulgaria 9,223
67 Romania 8,785
68 Brazil 8,561
69 Thailand 8,368
70 Kazakhstan 8,318
71 Tunisia 8,255
72 Grenada 8,198
73 Turkmenistan 8,098
74 Iran 7,980
75 Turkey 7,950
76 Tonga 7,935
77 Belize 7,832
78 Republic of Macedonia 7,748
79 Belarus 7,711
80 Maldives 7,675
81 Dominican Republic 7,627
82 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 7,493
83 Namibia 7,478
84 Colombia 7,326
85 Panama 7,283
86 Ukraine 7,213
87 People's Republic of China 7,198
88 Algeria 7,189
89 Gabon 7,055
90 Lebanon 6,681
91 Dominica 6,520
92 Saint Lucia 6,444
93 Cape Verde 6,418
94 Fiji 6,375
95 Samoa 6,344
96 Venezuela 6,186
97 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6,035
98 Peru 5,983
99 Suriname 5,683
100 Albania 5,405
101 Serbia 5,348

(14) Ceku is not a terrorist

(No, we dont demand you to say Ceku is not a terrorist. We, and the rest of the World, expect you to say Arkan was a terrorist. Karadzic is a terrorist. Mladic is a terrorist. Sesel is a terrorist. Milosevic was a terrorist. And everybody supporting the same nationalist issues as them (including Kostunica, Tadic and everybody else in Serbia), is a terrorist

RE: Martin Comment

I would be remiss in not making a comment on the entire modern leadership as being labelled as terrorists.

I beg to differ except on one point:

Yes, Arkhan was a terrorist, and as all terrorists, you live by the sword and you will die by the sword. He is guilty of killing innocent civilians and clearing out villages , Croat, Muslim or otherwise. The Serbian Government smashed the mafia ring and arrested hundreds under the guidance of Zoran Djindjic and Kostunica. These men are on trial including some of the Red Berets. No one can discount the guilt of Arkhan and the stupidity of some Serb Nationalists who would hail this man as a "heroe" This man made millions on the killing of innocent people.

As for Slobodan Milosevic, read the transcripts published at the ICTY and make your own decision. No doubt, corrupt to the people of Serbia and Kosovo, but far from being labelled a war criminal according to international law.

Karadzic, Mladic, Martic, Babich are no more war criminals than Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Ganic, Soceribey, Siladzic and the rest. The only difference is that the US backed the Bosnian Muslims and over stepped the United Nations Mandate in both Bosnia and Croatia.

However, Serbia was not a modern western European power. It was a dictatorship that dissolved into a brutal civil war during the struggle for power at a time in world politics when anarchy basically reigned because of the fall of the Soviet Union. (Matthew, 3 February 2007, 08:11

Tito planted the seeds with the direct support of Churchill when the Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia was created in 1945. When Tito stood up to Stalin, the US and IMF poured substantial amount of funds into Yugoslavia and offered tacit support.

Milosevic was a by-product of Tito and the Yugoslav Communist Party.

The democratic forces of Yugoslavia rested with King Peter II and the Yugoslav monarchy in exile in the UK who was placed under house arrest by Churchill and not allowed to return to Yugoslavia.

Finally Kosovo is FREE. As it was expected and our dignity is at his place. Now we can live happy ever after with serbs, albanians and maybe greeks.

P.S. Respect for this news agency. It's independent

Ahtisaari's proposal keeps the door open to Kosovo's independence although he dared not put that word down anywhere in his proposal. I doubt it will survive the UN Security Council in its present form.

Meanwhile lots of things can happen apart from Belgrade's rejection: K-Serbs declaring secesssion in the north, which Pristina hopes Nato will put down because they are not able to do this themselves. Yes, the US and UK will publicly condemn but will not dare to put down the K-Serb rebellion because they have no stomach for yet another war or civilian bloodbath, especially with the whole world watching. The result will be de facto partition.

As it is, more and more in the West are now looking at partition more indulgently.

I'm in Kosovo, in a Serbian enclave. There is a risk that the plan is creating, in that it may prompt yet another mass exodus of Serbians and Roma from Kosovo like they did in the early 80s.

lowe kosovo will NEVER get indiependence, this is clear for months. and athisaari isn´t helpfull for the albanians at all, because he spitted russia into their face.

the only question open is, will albanians do us all a favour and play the violent card! if they do so, nearly one million serb refugees will find a new home in south serbia.

It is funny to watch the back and forth on this site. Does anyone realize that this is a draft proposal that now goes on to the Security Council where it may be vetoed leading to who knows what kind of craziness. Or ammended in some shape or form (probably "down" because there is no room to ammend it "up"). And after that it still requires the agreement of both parties to avoid even more craziness.

I'm in Kosovo, in a Serbian enclave. There is a risk that the plan is creating, in that it may prompt yet another mass exodus of Serbians and Roma from Kosovo like they did in the early 80s.
(UNMIK, 2 February 2007, 13:31)
LMAO Now the Serbs are playing the we-are-deeply-worried-for-the-fate-of-the-poor-Roma card. Look at us Serbs how tolerant and Gypsy-loving we are unlike the evil intolerant anthropoid Albanians who are intolerant and don't love the poor Gypsies like we do.
You Serbs come up with something better coz this ain't working.

Either way the Serbs are going to end as the major losers. If Russia vetoes the UNSC resolution then we will end up which what Tim Judah just called the "nightmare scenario"

He suggests that is there is no UNSC resolution than

- the k Albanians may declare independence anyways and get recondition from the US and EU,
- the northern Kosovo Serbs will also declare independence.

According to him that would render Ahtisaari's proposal useless and the southern Serbs wont have any protection and will either have to leave of be ethnically cleansed.

----------------------------

Serbs, you have lost Kosovo anyways, try to be constructive and work for a better future for both our peoples, your radical and nationalist ideas will get you nowhere.

- Independent Kosovo
- International supervision
- Unprecedented autonomy for the Serbian municipalies
- Protection of Serbian monasteries and holy sites
- Freedom to move from Kosovo to Serbia unharmed.
- Dual citizenship which means you can still remain citizens of Serbia

Take the time to think these through in a rational and reasonable manner and hopefully you will come to the conclusion that Independent Kosovo is not that bad.

What other choice do we have anyways, the alternative is WAR, and I am sure neither of us wants that.

To the Internet Serbian Warriors:
Serbian Internet warriors are by far the blood thrstiest, but the only thing I cant understand and I’m concerned about right now is, Why? Serbian democrats are HIJACKED and have been hijacked for decades by those blood thirstiest Serbs!!!
Dear democrats don’t leave those people In your name to preach hate and threat your neighbors.
I hope that Albanians from Kosova don’t make a link between Serbs from Kosova and those Serb’s who’s all the time supporting and preaching violence.
I know that most of you that read this will attempt to butcher and criticize my remarks. I encourage you to do so, but I also encourage you to criticize your own marks and views just as closely.

If the UNSC decides the final status of Kosovo, that can only mean the resolution will have to be so filtered down as to become acceptable to all veto-holding powers. Just look at UN Resolutions on Iraq or Iran, and you'll find that anything that passes has to be favorable to the Chinese, the Russians and the French, to the point that when something does pass the original intentions have all but been replaced, or so diluted in legal mumbo jumbo as to make anything tangible in that resolution toothless and vague beyond recognition. Ahtisaari did his job like a good little civil servant, and can now retire back to Finland, write his memoirs about how he did the best he could and blame any repercussions on incalcitrant politicians. It's therefore no surprise the stipulations in this solution package speaks out of both sides of the mouth and can be interpreted in multiple ways.

"According to him that would render Ahtisaari's proposal useless and the southern Serbs wont have any protection and will either have to leave of be ethnically cleansed.
Serbs, you have lost Kosovo anyways, try to be constructive and work for a better future for both our peoples"
and
"Take the time to think these through in a rational and reasonable manner..."

Nick, I am one of those Serbs to whom you speak. Everybody in international community and in former Yugoslavia swore by the "republics".
Agim Ceku himself, by his own statements at the time, fought in Croatia, for principle of inviolability of the borders of the republic of Croatia and supported the idea of borders of Yugoslavian republics being unchangable.
If the remaining Serbs "have to leave of be ethnically cleansed." you go ahead and do that.
I don't think that it would lead to WAR even in that case.
But, nobody can ask Serbs (especially not Ceku) to be "constructive" and to "think these through in a rational and reasonable manner", because there is nothing to think about.

Jarina, you call Serbs "blood thirsty", now you dont see us catagorizing Albanians as "nomads" do you? Serbs arent posting comments about how Albanians really dont have a national identity and steal other nations histories and try to pass it as they're own. Your remarks are useless and very difficult to understand.

Thank you B92 for allowing us to express our opinions. It is only by hearing each others stories and arguments that we can hope to one day if not agree at least understand each other. If the previous Serbian regimes had used your approach, I am sure that what happened to both our peoples could have been easily avoided.

Nick wrote:
"Serbs, you have lost Kosovo anyways, try to be constructive and work for a better future for both our peoples, your radical and nationalist ideas will get you nowhere."

To all Albanian posters...The Kosovo issue is not related to some sort of Ultranationalism, or radicalism like everybody is saying..It's the indirect result outside interferance of Serbs right for self administration in Krajina, Rep.Srpska, and Kosovo..Unfortunately, the K-Albanians are bearing the brunt of Serb individual grievances currently..

If anything, it's Albanian nationalism that's gone above and beyond whatever Serbian nationlism has done, in theory AND in practice..

Truly, the Serbs in Kosovo are the main concern for Serbia..Not some sort of monsterous claim like everybody suggests...

Belgrade realizes that they don't have the means to control Pristina. By the time some sort of new symbolic flag or claim of Kosovo is created, it'll be 70 years too late..By the time you wake up from your hangover, you'll realize that it's a global economy, and both you and Serbia will be small fish in a big pond..

What's worse, Kosovo will be more attached to Serbia economically than Albania..
So rather that poking fun at Serbian individualism and collectivism, i'd suggest some more maturity on the Albanian side..
You never know what will happen in a generation, so nobody should "Burn their bridges", so to speak.
The better cards are in Albanian hands. Play them wisely...

sretem,

You have you read my post in context, i was not trying to promote the ethnic clensing of the southern serbs, i was merely quoting an article by Tim Judah who says that is what will happen if:

1. There is no UNSC resolution
2. The US & EU recondnize Kosovo anyways; and
3. Northern Kosovo declares independence that will enrage the k albanians.

Its only a scenario, nothing else.

Dont missunderstant me, i am totally against violence against the Kosovo Serbs.

Regarding the inviolability of bordes i would say that:

1. Kosovo had clearly defined borders under the Yugoslavia and although they were not republican borders they were close enough; and

2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens.

sretem,

You have you read my post in context, i was not trying to promote the ethnic cleansing of the southern Serbs, I was merely quoting an article by Tim Judah who says that is what will happen if:

1. There is no UNSC resolution
2. The US & EU recondite Kosovo anyways; and
3. Northern Kosovo declares independence that will enrage the k Albanians.

Its only a scenario, nothing else.

Don’t misunderstand me; I am totally against violence against the Kosovo Serbs.

Regarding the inviolability of borders i would say that:

1. Kosovo had clearly defined borders under the Yugoslavia and although they were not republican borders they were close enough; and

2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens.

So Athisarri is happy to put a draft proposal that he knows only too well will be vetoed. I guess the ethnic-Albanians are falling for more lies hook line and sinker. Wake up this is how they brush their hands of the sordid business they find themselves. Post veto - you guys declare - partition - US can recognise buty on what international grounds, EU will not be able to get involved and the black hole south of Mitrovica will be darker. Take a close look over the next few months at what Blag tried to tell you - maybe in the months to come some of you will realise but it will be too late.

calling the Serbs here "serbian internet warriors" is more than absurd.

it´s disqualifying. I have read a lot of threats here, but they were all, I repeat it , all made by albanian commentators, ...like "hell will brake loose" " no one in the world can prevent us of having our own state " and similar nonsense.

calling the Serbs here "serbian internet warriors" is more than absurd.
it´s disqualifying. jovan, 2 February 2007, 20:19)

Jovan, the problem is the Albanian commentors on B-92 are very defensive and have problems with facts and knowledge.

This is what they demand to hear:

(1) Albanians are true descendants from Illyria
(Not proven)

(2) The Serbian Orthodox Churches deserve to be grazed to the ground for the following reasons:

(a) Albanians were raped in Churches

(b) Christian Orthdox Churches were at one time Catholic or Mosques

(c) The Serbian Christian Orthodox Church was part of the state even though the Communists shut down many churches during Tito's reign.

(4) Kosovo somehow was stolen from Albania in 1912 even though Kosovo was part of Turkey?

(5) Innuendo that Kosovo was at some time Sovereign to Albania

(6) The Territorial Integrity of Serbia Under UN RESC 1244 is null and void because the former mini-Yugoslavia is now called Serbia.

(7) Kosovo is now free (Kosovo has been run by Kosovo Communist Leaders with substantial self government)

(8) Greece was NOT invaded by Albanians and Italians during WWII. So, all those Albanian prisoners taken by the Greeks was an illusion.

(9) Albania did not declare war against the US in 1939. (IT DID)

(1) Albania was on the "winning side" even though it declared war against the US in 1939.

(12) Rankovic is somehow a Fascist even though he was one of TITO's Communist Henchman.

(13) Albania is Economically superior to Serbia

(14) Ceku is not a terrorist

(15) KLA and UCK are freedom fighters who let UNESCO sites burn down .

(16) Slobodan Milosevic is to blame for everything that happened in Kosovo.

(17) Kosovo Albanians "won" the war.

(18) Serbia invaded Kosovo

You get the point.

Nick wrote: "1. Kosovo had clearly defined borders under the Yugoslavia and although they were not republican borders they were close enough; and

2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens."

Nick: Very poor arguments... if this is the best you have, i suggest you go back to the drawing board. Please allow me to point out how POINTLESS your arguments are.

1.) "close enough"??? well sorry but "close enough" isn't GOOD ENOUGH when its a countries sovereignty we're talking about. How about we just argue that the autonomy Serbia is offering the Albanians is "CLOSE ENOUGH"

2.) This is NOT law written anywhere but you state it as if it were. Anyhow it wouldn't matter anyways since GENOCIDE was NOT COMMITTED in Kosovo. 10,000 people died on ALL sides in two years of war. It was Serbian units VS KLA separatists (and ONLY after the KLA started murdered hundreds of policeman/civilians (Serbian AND Albanian).

PS: Was any Serbian official convicted of genocide? Or are you judging people now without a fair trial?

PPS: Did Croatia commit GENOCIDE against 300,000 Serbs who no longer live there? Or how about the USA in Iraq?

Independent Kosovo
- International supervision
- Unprecedented autonomy for the Serbian municipalies
- Protection of Serbian monasteries and holy sites
- Freedom to move from Kosovo to Serbia unharmed.
- Dual citizenship which means you can still remain citizens of Serbia (Nick, 2 February 2007, 14:56)

Unprecedented Autonomy for the Serbian Municipalities?

You make it sound like the Serbians never had representation in any of the Kosovo municipalities which is innaccurate. The problem is that they have been Ethncally cleansed by the KLA and UCK from most of the municipalities except Kosovo-Mitrovica.

Protection of Serbian Orthodox sites!! Five Orthodox churches in Prizren were burned down to the ground with UNMIK watching.

What makes you think they will be protected now??

UN resolution 1244 stipulated the return of Serbian police to the borders and around cultural sites. This was not upheld, why should any Serb government trust any agreement particularly coming from Ahtisaari who together with Russian mediater Cheryomedin pressured President Slobodan Milosevic to sign UN resolution 1244.

PS

Over 220,000 Serbs cleansed, 2500 Kosovo Serbs missing and not accounted for.

Current percentage of Serbs in Kosovo 3-5%, in 1981 it was 17%.

Princip, wake up! It will happen exactly the contrary of what Blag predicted. I told him and I'm telling you also, THIS IS NOT a Serbia vs. Kosovo game. And that blows up every Blag's fancy.
Are you sure it will be a veto? For whom is accustomed to the dynamics of UNSC a veto, very different from threating it, is a very unlikely event. Even if it happens, for the first time in the last 20 yrs., it's not as a huge problem as you try to figure it. Facts on the ground count.
Try better to understand the win-win outcome: everyone admits the new reality and tries to construct the best relations possible to the neighbour. Childish refusals bring nothing to no one. The train has left the station since 1999. Try to understand it.

“2. The principle of inviolability of borders ceases to exist when a country commits genocide (yes genocide, read Lemkins definition of it) against its own citizens.
(Nick, 2 February 2007, 16:16)”

Nick, by modern western standards, morally I would agree with you. However, Serbia was not a modern western European power. It was a dictatorship that dissolved into a brutal civil war during the struggle for power at a time in world politics when anarchy basically reigned because of the fall of the Soviet Union. Unfortunately the types of crimes that happened in Kosovo occur everyday around the world in many areas. While I agree that Serbia must accept a more severe punishment for the crimes committed during the Milosevic era if they wish to join the Western sphere of influence. However, I also feel that Serbia should not be held to as high a standard as a Modern Western European country. The Balkans are a brutal place, but as time goes on, the crimes are less severe. Hopefully, in time the violence will end and we can learn to live in peace with one another and focus on the big picture. In time Europe as a whole together will be fighting for economic dominance against the other major economies of the world and we will have more that binds us together then pulls us apart. In Modern Western capitalist countries money is far more important than blood.

I dont understand why (given Im just an albanian with very poor arguments), but I see an abstruse exasperation on the posts of most of the fellow serbs here. Some of them like Konstantin Gregovic, Pijetro and Obilic are loosing even their control and making lists of serb superiorities and albanian inferiorities.
Wake up, Russia is part of the contact group for Kosovo. Now, if Russia would have any intention of saving the status quo in Kosovo (as part of Serbia), its representative in the contact group wouldnt aprove the decision for charging Ahtisari work on a document like this we see here.
Kosovo is gone. It will be independent in a few weeks, recognized by USA, UK, France, and the rest of the EU. A little further it will be recognized by Russia which will be asked this little favor by Albania, for allowing Gazprom that pipeline russians are asking to build in its territory for reaching faster Italy, and for takin superiority in Albania's and Kosovo's oil (small but still available markets). And after a few years, even Serbia will do the same. Just as UK and Republic of Ireland reconciliated. Just like Greece and Turkey have this love-hate relationship. Just like many other antagonisms in the world smoothed out by the economic interests. Sooner we albanians and serbs will do that with each other, sooner we'll solve our bigger problem: economic development.
Cheers from Tirana.
Martin

To Kostantin Gregovic:
Im trying to give some answers to your famous list of what albanians demand to hear:

(1) Albanians are true descendants from Illyria
(Not proven)

(We dont demand to hear from you serbs. Your "scientists" are the onlys in the world not accepting this fact).

(2) The Serbian Orthodox Churches deserve to be grazed to the ground for the following reasons:

(Who told you that albanians demand the destruction of orthodox churches? I remind yoi that 25 percent of the albanians are orthodox. I ame half orthodox by the way. And your effort to present the ethnic antagonism for Kosovo as a relegious one, is null).


(4) Kosovo somehow was stolen from Albania in 1912 even though Kosovo was part of Turkey?

(In 1878, after one of the albanian rebellions, Turkey recognized the four albanian speaking Villayets (Shkodra, Manastir, Janina and Kosovo) as a unique unit under Ottoman Empire).

(5) Innuendo that Kosovo was at some time Sovereign to Albania

(We dont demand you to say that. We know that Kosovo was never sovereign to Albania. Serbs occupied it and commited there crimes raported by the whole world).

(6) The Territorial Integrity of Serbia Under UN RESC 1244 is null and void because the former mini-Yugoslavia is now called Serbia.

(Yes we demand you to say that. If you dont, we dont care. The rest of the world says that).

(7) Kosovo is now free (Kosovo has been run by Kosovo Communist Leaders with substantial self government)

(Yes, but that was Yugoslavia. The state of the southern slavs. Albanians are not slavs. So they were considered citizens of the second hand there.

(8) Greece was NOT invaded by Albanians and Italians during WWII. So, all those Albanian prisoners taken by the Greeks was an illusion.

(Yes, you should know that it was fascist Italy who invaded Greece in 1940. Albania was invaded by Italy earlier, and an invaded country cannot invade another one. This is a nonsense only serbs can make).

(9) Albania did not declare war against the US in 1939.

(Albania in 1939 was an occupied country).

(1) Albania was on the "winning side" even though it declared war against the US in 1939.

(The Paris conference accepts Albania as a antifascist winner country. Thanks God is not Serbia deciding who's what in the World).

(12) Rankovic is somehow a Fascist even though he was one of TITO's Communist Henchman.

(We consider a fascist whomever commited genocide and tryed to exterminate our people. Rankovic including. And Milosevic including, even he was leader of a left wing party).

(13) Albania is Economically superior to Serbia

(Accordin CIA World Factbook, Albanias GDP per capita is $ 5.600. And Serbia's $ 4.400. Now you decide who is living better).


(14) Ceku is not a terrorist

(No, we dont demand you to say Ceku is not a terrorist. We, and the rest of the World, expect you to say Arkan was a terrorist. Karadzic is a terrorist. Mladic is a terrorist. Sesel is a terrorist. Milosevic was a terrorist. And everybody supporting the same nationalist issues as them (including Kostunica, Tadic and everybody else in Serbia), is a terrorist.

(15) KLA and UCK are freedom fighters who let UNESCO sites burn down.

(No we demand you to say, that people are more important than stones).

(16) Slobodan Milosevic is to blame for everything that happened in Kosovo.

(No, we say Milosevic is not to blame for everything. We say the serbian society is to return a normal country. The serb shoolbooks freed by the nationalist rhetoric painting serbs like the center of the world. Serb church freed by the megalomany of Seria-uber-alles.)

(17) Kosovo Albanians "won" the war.

(You think not?)

(18) Serbia invaded Kosovo

(No, actually Serbia liberated Kosovo. Everybody there recieved Serb troops with flowers and since 1913 nobody never heard for a single tension on Kosovo).

>>We dont demand to hear from you serbs. Your "scientists" are the onlys in the world not accepting this fact).


my dear Martin...

it´s frightening to read your comment. Albanians are always claming the Serbs are living in a dream-world of myths and illusions.

quite the opposite is the reality:

todays Albanians are not the descendants of the Illyrians. you can repeat it as much as you want to, but...it won´t become the truth, sorry for you!
and I will just repeat it once more: it has nothing to do with "serbian scientists"... this whole crap about the illyrian ancestry is declared obsolete by american archeologists an historians.

why don´t you just research for yourself, instead of reading some nonsense-books, that are only decieving you...

and, albanians did not win even one war. they lost in WWI,in WW II, where they sided with the Nazis and lost again, and in ´99 you played almost no role, since it was an army of chickenthieves, to say it clear. the only ones who had a military education had enjoyed it in the former yugoslav army.

last but not least, the Nato-agression against the SRJ /FRY was ended by several agreements signed by the aggressor and the yugoslav side in Kumanovo.
since they feared the ground-war they looked forward to move in without being forced to take heavy losses.
so much for the "albanian" victory...

Martin, 3 February 2007, 13:45)

I rest my case, read Martin's comments and you can come up with your own conclusion, open up your history books, not the one's taught in Prisina University under the guise of Tito Politique.

RE:

(1) Clarification on the relationship betwen Italy and Albania

(2) The story of the good Kosovo-Albanians

King Zog of Albanina was installed and the country of Albania created through the direct intervention of Italy. Under Fascist Italy under Mussoloni, so he was removed and together they declared war against the United States et al and invaded Greece.

(2) Under the Kingdom Of Yugoslavia, the only trouble the Serbian Monarchy had was provocations from Albania proper. The true Kosovar-Albanians were loyal to the monarchy, in fact the caretakers and preservers of the Serbian Orthodox Monasteries and Churches. Some still are, what a disgrace the Albanian extremists, many allowed to flow through the Albania border to invoke the Hodza communist teachings which are anti-Christian and anti-Serb.

RE: GDP Per Capita-2006

The list is printed for the benefit of all. (Martin, you need to update your figures)Take note that Albania and Serbia are 100 & 101 respectively.

Albania has yet to recover from the Insurance scandals and hardline Envar Hodza state economy. The current leadership is increasing investment expenditure which leads most European nations, but will it bring results. Serbia's GDP forecast is excellent for 2007 and GDP growth is expected to be 5-7% , the fastest growing economy in Southeastern Europe.

Rank Country GDP (PPP)
$ per capita
1 Luxembourg 69,800
2 Norway 42,364
3 United States 41,399
4 Ireland 40,610
5 Iceland 35,115
6 Denmark 34,740
7 Canada 34,273
8 Hong Kong 33,479
9 Austria 33,432
10 Switzerland 32,571
11 Qatar 31,397
12 Belgium 31,244
13 Finland 31,208
14 Australia 30,897
15 Netherlands 30,862
16 Japan 30,615
17 Germany 30,579
18 United Kingdom 30,436
19 Sweden 29,926
20 France 29,187
21 Italy 28,534
22 Singapore 28,368
23 United Arab Emirates 27,957
24 Republic of China (Taiwan) 27,721
25 Spain 26,320
26 Brunei 24,948
27 New Zealand 24,797
28 Israel 23,474
29 Netherlands Antilles, Netherlands 22,750
30 Greece 22,392
31 Slovenia 21,808
32 Bahrain 21,565
33 Cyprus 21,177
34 South Korea 20,590
35 The Bahamas 20,076
36 Malta 19,739
37 Portugal 19,335
38 Czech Republic 18,341
39 Barbados 17,610
40 Oman 16,862
41 Hungary 16,823
42 Equatorial Guinea 16,507
43 Estonia 16,414
44 Kuwait 16,301
45 Slovakia 16,041
46 Saudi Arabia 15,229
47 Saint Kitts and Nevis 14,649
48 Trinidad and Tobago 14,258
49 Lithuania 14,158
50 Argentina 14,109
51 Poland 12,994
52 Mauritius 12,895
53 Latvia 12,666
54 Croatia 12,324
55 South Africa 12,161
56 Seychelles 12,059
57 Chile 11,937
58 Libya 11,624
59 Antigua and Barbuda 11,523
60 Botswana 11,410
61 Malaysia 11,201
62 Russia 11,041
63 Uruguay 10,720
64 Costa Rica 10,434
65 Mexico 10,186
66 Bulgaria 9,223
67 Romania 8,785
68 Brazil 8,561
69 Thailand 8,368
70 Kazakhstan 8,318
71 Tunisia 8,255
72 Grenada 8,198
73 Turkmenistan 8,098
74 Iran 7,980
75 Turkey 7,950
76 Tonga 7,935
77 Belize 7,832
78 Republic of Macedonia 7,748
79 Belarus 7,711
80 Maldives 7,675
81 Dominican Republic 7,627
82 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 7,493
83 Namibia 7,478
84 Colombia 7,326
85 Panama 7,283
86 Ukraine 7,213
87 People's Republic of China 7,198
88 Algeria 7,189
89 Gabon 7,055
90 Lebanon 6,681
91 Dominica 6,520
92 Saint Lucia 6,444
93 Cape Verde 6,418
94 Fiji 6,375
95 Samoa 6,344
96 Venezuela 6,186
97 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6,035
98 Peru 5,983
99 Suriname 5,683
100 Albania 5,405
101 Serbia 5,348

(14) Ceku is not a terrorist

(No, we dont demand you to say Ceku is not a terrorist. We, and the rest of the World, expect you to say Arkan was a terrorist. Karadzic is a terrorist. Mladic is a terrorist. Sesel is a terrorist. Milosevic was a terrorist. And everybody supporting the same nationalist issues as them (including Kostunica, Tadic and everybody else in Serbia), is a terrorist

RE: Martin Comment

I would be remiss in not making a comment on the entire modern leadership as being labelled as terrorists.

I beg to differ except on one point:

Yes, Arkhan was a terrorist, and as all terrorists, you live by the sword and you will die by the sword. He is guilty of killing innocent civilians and clearing out villages , Croat, Muslim or otherwise. The Serbian Government smashed the mafia ring and arrested hundreds under the guidance of Zoran Djindjic and Kostunica. These men are on trial including some of the Red Berets. No one can discount the guilt of Arkhan and the stupidity of some Serb Nationalists who would hail this man as a "heroe" This man made millions on the killing of innocent people.

As for Slobodan Milosevic, read the transcripts published at the ICTY and make your own decision. No doubt, corrupt to the people of Serbia and Kosovo, but far from being labelled a war criminal according to international law.

Karadzic, Mladic, Martic, Babich are no more war criminals than Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Ganic, Soceribey, Siladzic and the rest. The only difference is that the US backed the Bosnian Muslims and over stepped the United Nations Mandate in both Bosnia and Croatia.

However, Serbia was not a modern western European power. It was a dictatorship that dissolved into a brutal civil war during the struggle for power at a time in world politics when anarchy basically reigned because of the fall of the Soviet Union. (Matthew, 3 February 2007, 08:11

Tito planted the seeds with the direct support of Churchill when the Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia was created in 1945. When Tito stood up to Stalin, the US and IMF poured substantial amount of funds into Yugoslavia and offered tacit support.

Milosevic was a by-product of Tito and the Yugoslav Communist Party.

The democratic forces of Yugoslavia rested with King Peter II and the Yugoslav monarchy in exile in the UK who was placed under house arrest by Churchill and not allowed to return to Yugoslavia.