BIRN reveals excerpts from Ahtisaari proposal

Remember guys these is still a "proposal" only, the upcmoing weeks will be "Negotion weeks"

Well most of these stipulations come as no surprise. I see the rudimentary structure of what will eventually become a sovereign state. Now the harder question is determining how such a state will embody a multiethnic character. It's also no surprise the Serbs will receive very generous concessions, as is already indicated with specific references to the Serbian Orthodox Church. I really think the main issue to hammer out - the issue Serbia is most interested in - is the way in which Serb municipalities will function both horizontally with Pristina, and vertially with Belgrade. One major stage of this conflict is now over, but another stage has already begun. I see a lot of negotiations on the horizon, and I can only imagine what we'll all be talking about here as well.

what remains to be negotiated here!!! and who will negotiate, albanians and serbs? if we would have ability and a will to negotiate there would be no war in Kosova. this is the only solution, the only one. what negotiators can do now is to try and polish it, the essence will remain.

Thanks god, the agony over kosova's future is coming to an end. February 2, 2007 will remain in history.

Finally we will live in a dignified manner, as normal people. serbia, macedonia, albania, montenegro will be our neighbors and I am sure we will respect them and also we'll be respected by them. There is no other way in 21st century.

cheers!

Hey Aca from Sweden, if this is not INDEPENDENCE WHAT IS?
Read the entire text carefuly and think hard whats in the bag. Maybe the serbs in northern Mitrovica will revolt today, but KFOR and KPS are ready to deal a crushing blow to any unrest.

These could also be speculations , as long as Ahtisari hasen't yet disclosed his document/proposal. We'll see it today and then comment on it.
Cheers,

To all southserbs: take a look at the constitution of vojvodina, cause there isn´t more on the table.

"Hey Aca from Sweden, if this is not INDEPENDENCE WHAT IS?
Read the entire text carefuly and think hard whats in the bag. Maybe the serbs in northern Mitrovica will revolt today, but KFOR and KPS are ready to deal a crushing blow to any unrest.
(Ahmet Isufi, 2 February 2007, 09:30)"

Actualy it sounds more like the proposal of someone frustrated. Someone who dared not mention the word independence and have decided to let others decide for him. Many of the points in the proposal seem vague to me and certainly open to different interpretations from different parties. He knows that his proposal is doomed to rejection by Belgrade and hence Moscow anyway and hence have decided to take the easy way out by indulging in vagaries. The effective result is a stalemate which luckily for Ahtisaari will not be his problem anymore after today.

KFOR to brutally crush K-Serbs revolt? In front of the whole world? Driving every Serb out of Kosovo so that the facade of multinationalism is dead before the status proposal reaches the UNSC? I think not. More likely Nato will condemn but not do anything except continue to be a buffer between the Serb north and Albanian south, thereby leading to de facto partition aka Cyprus.

Question: Is today's Kosovo boundarywise exactly the same with the autonomous Kosovo of the former Yugoslavia (the first former Yugoslavia not the Serbia-Montenegro mini-Yugo)? As far as I know a few sqkm have been the subject of a Serbia-FYROM agreement and now belong to FYROM.

Did you miss it? Here it is, and I quote:

" Immovable and movable property of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia or the Republic of Serbia located within the territory of Kosovo at the time of this settlement shall pass to Kosovo."

That is the sentence that says independence. It is what all the former Yugo republics did when they became independent states...including Montenegro recently. This proposal is independence without mentioning the word....a brilliant move by MR. ahtisaari to get it through the SC. Uncle Sam will be the 1st to recognize independent Kosovo. At that point it is all over as hundreeds more will follow.

Ahtisaari's document prescribes a sort of "controlled independence", that is, quite an oxymoron.

At any rate, any modern truth is quite an oxymoron anyway...

Sidi

Sorry to have to disagree with you. This provision (provided it is accurate AND accepted by UNSC, which is far from a sure thing to being with) can be interpreted in various ways as I mentioned earlier. For example, I believe the "maximum autonomy" concept floated by Belgrade previously would have allowed such property to be under Kosovo's jurisdiction anyway. Secondly, notice that, unlike the other former Yugoslav republics which became independent, Kosovo appears not to be entitled to a share of the foreign assets of the former Yugoslavia -- you may want to speculate why this is so if it is really on the way to statehood.

You must read the fine print carefully. Even the "right to apply to join international organizations" must be qualified -- only the international mission proposed to oversee Kosovo can apply on Kosovo's behalf and provided it sees fit to do so (not guaranteed), Pristina itself has no power to apply for membership on its own.

And even this assuming that the entire proposal passes the UNSC. I don't see how Moscow and Beijing in their own self interests will approve the proposal. Russia already said so many times that the proposal must be acceptable to Serbia. And they won't want to appear stupid enough to accept a proposal at face value just because the word independence is not mentioned. I think there will be a deadlock.

Personally I think there is only one way to win approval for either side. Both Belgrade and Pristina must compete economically to grow as rich as possible. Once you are wealthy, people will clamor to join you. So Sidi, if Kosovo can grow wealthy soon, or your southern part strikes oil and becomes another Kuwait, K-Serbs and others will insist on being your citizens. Do you see any prospect for that?

Regarding the state symbol, I read somewhere the other day that the flag cannot be the double-headed eagle the Albanians have. It has to be a new multicultural flag, sort of like that of Bosnia.

Iowe wrote:
"Both Belgrade and Pristina must compete economically to grow as rich as possible."

I think this is the gist of it all..Regional influence, void of national ownership..

Sidi's version of an Independent Kosovo aren't realistic..Not to say they WON'T get independence, the question is HOW??
If it's a step by step approach to a functioning democracy, than there shouldn't be any problems for the Serbs in Kosovo..
The problem is...........nobody really cares.

I think that the beginning of this century might let the K-Albanians breathe a sigh of relief in recognition of a long awaited goal and dream, but that will be dead and forgotten very quickly..

The days of national states are gone within a generation. IBM, Microsoft and Toyota are the flags of your children and grandchildren..

RE: Clause and UN Resolution 1244

Immovable and movable property of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia or the Republic of Serbia located within the territory of Kosovo at the time of this settlement shall pass to Kosovo.

Let me get this straight, the Albanians argue that under resolution 1244 the territorial integrity of Serbia over Kosovo is null and void because Serbia is not considered pursuant to the former mini Yugoslav federation of Serbia & Montenegro.

But the movable and immovable property whether it was under the Federal Yugoslav Republic or Serbia must remain in tact with Kosovo.

Remember guys these is still a "proposal" only, the upcmoing weeks will be "Negotion weeks"

Well most of these stipulations come as no surprise. I see the rudimentary structure of what will eventually become a sovereign state. Now the harder question is determining how such a state will embody a multiethnic character. It's also no surprise the Serbs will receive very generous concessions, as is already indicated with specific references to the Serbian Orthodox Church. I really think the main issue to hammer out - the issue Serbia is most interested in - is the way in which Serb municipalities will function both horizontally with Pristina, and vertially with Belgrade. One major stage of this conflict is now over, but another stage has already begun. I see a lot of negotiations on the horizon, and I can only imagine what we'll all be talking about here as well.

what remains to be negotiated here!!! and who will negotiate, albanians and serbs? if we would have ability and a will to negotiate there would be no war in Kosova. this is the only solution, the only one. what negotiators can do now is to try and polish it, the essence will remain.

Thanks god, the agony over kosova's future is coming to an end. February 2, 2007 will remain in history.

Finally we will live in a dignified manner, as normal people. serbia, macedonia, albania, montenegro will be our neighbors and I am sure we will respect them and also we'll be respected by them. There is no other way in 21st century.

cheers!

Hey Aca from Sweden, if this is not INDEPENDENCE WHAT IS?
Read the entire text carefuly and think hard whats in the bag. Maybe the serbs in northern Mitrovica will revolt today, but KFOR and KPS are ready to deal a crushing blow to any unrest.

These could also be speculations , as long as Ahtisari hasen't yet disclosed his document/proposal. We'll see it today and then comment on it.
Cheers,

To all southserbs: take a look at the constitution of vojvodina, cause there isn´t more on the table.

"Hey Aca from Sweden, if this is not INDEPENDENCE WHAT IS?
Read the entire text carefuly and think hard whats in the bag. Maybe the serbs in northern Mitrovica will revolt today, but KFOR and KPS are ready to deal a crushing blow to any unrest.
(Ahmet Isufi, 2 February 2007, 09:30)"

Actualy it sounds more like the proposal of someone frustrated. Someone who dared not mention the word independence and have decided to let others decide for him. Many of the points in the proposal seem vague to me and certainly open to different interpretations from different parties. He knows that his proposal is doomed to rejection by Belgrade and hence Moscow anyway and hence have decided to take the easy way out by indulging in vagaries. The effective result is a stalemate which luckily for Ahtisaari will not be his problem anymore after today.

KFOR to brutally crush K-Serbs revolt? In front of the whole world? Driving every Serb out of Kosovo so that the facade of multinationalism is dead before the status proposal reaches the UNSC? I think not. More likely Nato will condemn but not do anything except continue to be a buffer between the Serb north and Albanian south, thereby leading to de facto partition aka Cyprus.

Question: Is today's Kosovo boundarywise exactly the same with the autonomous Kosovo of the former Yugoslavia (the first former Yugoslavia not the Serbia-Montenegro mini-Yugo)? As far as I know a few sqkm have been the subject of a Serbia-FYROM agreement and now belong to FYROM.

Did you miss it? Here it is, and I quote:

" Immovable and movable property of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia or the Republic of Serbia located within the territory of Kosovo at the time of this settlement shall pass to Kosovo."

That is the sentence that says independence. It is what all the former Yugo republics did when they became independent states...including Montenegro recently. This proposal is independence without mentioning the word....a brilliant move by MR. ahtisaari to get it through the SC. Uncle Sam will be the 1st to recognize independent Kosovo. At that point it is all over as hundreeds more will follow.

Ahtisaari's document prescribes a sort of "controlled independence", that is, quite an oxymoron.

At any rate, any modern truth is quite an oxymoron anyway...

Sidi

Sorry to have to disagree with you. This provision (provided it is accurate AND accepted by UNSC, which is far from a sure thing to being with) can be interpreted in various ways as I mentioned earlier. For example, I believe the "maximum autonomy" concept floated by Belgrade previously would have allowed such property to be under Kosovo's jurisdiction anyway. Secondly, notice that, unlike the other former Yugoslav republics which became independent, Kosovo appears not to be entitled to a share of the foreign assets of the former Yugoslavia -- you may want to speculate why this is so if it is really on the way to statehood.

You must read the fine print carefully. Even the "right to apply to join international organizations" must be qualified -- only the international mission proposed to oversee Kosovo can apply on Kosovo's behalf and provided it sees fit to do so (not guaranteed), Pristina itself has no power to apply for membership on its own.

And even this assuming that the entire proposal passes the UNSC. I don't see how Moscow and Beijing in their own self interests will approve the proposal. Russia already said so many times that the proposal must be acceptable to Serbia. And they won't want to appear stupid enough to accept a proposal at face value just because the word independence is not mentioned. I think there will be a deadlock.

Personally I think there is only one way to win approval for either side. Both Belgrade and Pristina must compete economically to grow as rich as possible. Once you are wealthy, people will clamor to join you. So Sidi, if Kosovo can grow wealthy soon, or your southern part strikes oil and becomes another Kuwait, K-Serbs and others will insist on being your citizens. Do you see any prospect for that?

Regarding the state symbol, I read somewhere the other day that the flag cannot be the double-headed eagle the Albanians have. It has to be a new multicultural flag, sort of like that of Bosnia.

Iowe wrote:
"Both Belgrade and Pristina must compete economically to grow as rich as possible."

I think this is the gist of it all..Regional influence, void of national ownership..

Sidi's version of an Independent Kosovo aren't realistic..Not to say they WON'T get independence, the question is HOW??
If it's a step by step approach to a functioning democracy, than there shouldn't be any problems for the Serbs in Kosovo..
The problem is...........nobody really cares.

I think that the beginning of this century might let the K-Albanians breathe a sigh of relief in recognition of a long awaited goal and dream, but that will be dead and forgotten very quickly..

The days of national states are gone within a generation. IBM, Microsoft and Toyota are the flags of your children and grandchildren..

RE: Clause and UN Resolution 1244

Immovable and movable property of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia or the Republic of Serbia located within the territory of Kosovo at the time of this settlement shall pass to Kosovo.

Let me get this straight, the Albanians argue that under resolution 1244 the territorial integrity of Serbia over Kosovo is null and void because Serbia is not considered pursuant to the former mini Yugoslav federation of Serbia & Montenegro.

But the movable and immovable property whether it was under the Federal Yugoslav Republic or Serbia must remain in tact with Kosovo.