21

Thursday, 01.02.2007.

10:56

Del Ponte puts Mladić first

Del Ponte calls on the European Union to put integration talks with Serbia on hold until Belgrade arrests Mladić.

Izvor: B92

Del Ponte puts Mladiæ first IMAGE SOURCE
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21 Komentari

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J.S.

pre 17 godina

ALL ANGLO-SAXON POLITICIANS HAVE A COPY OF ALL MY WRITINGS, AND YOUR DUTY IS TO GIVE A COPY OF THIS TO EVERY YES EVERY MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT.

ORDER that stupid Radical Party to change their name as soon as possible like NOW! No one can help STUPID people, and what I am going to give is SOUND advice.

The meaning of the word RADICAL, regardless of what you will find in English dictionaries is sometihing grossly DISGUSTING to the ordinary person. In the ENGLISH LANGUAGE the meanings os words change with time and it takes time for the DICTIONARY to note the CHANGES.

If there is to be a grand coalition, a Government of National UNITY this will mean that the RADICALS will have to join it, and their name is UNACCEPTABLE UNACCEPTABLE. How can this be understood if it can not be understood in words!

If I was the ruler of Serbia, I would ask the Radical Party to change their name as soon as practical. If they refuse then I would pay VERY GOOD MONEY to false witnesses and the leader of the the would in jail very quickly on DEFINITE FALSE CHARGES, and he would only be released after his Party changed their name. HE would go to court and pay a large fine as penalty immediately after his Party changed their name.

He could never be leader of his Party again as the Mafia would tell him this things.

It is very progressive to want to follow the UN Charter, it is very progessive to want to follow International Law and the Constitution of your country. It is very prodressive to want to a multi-racial and multi-religious Community in ALL OF EUROPE.

Therefore, perhaps and only perhaps a good name is the Democratic Progressive Party of Serbia, or the Democratic People's Party of Serbia.

Victor

pre 17 godina

«You're a French Canadian and don't even know a thing about the history of the area.» I have a degree in History, so I should know a bit!

Victor

pre 17 godina

«... you are not reaching out to the Serbian community.»

This is not my goal. My only goal is present the facts as they are, like them or not. Too many Serbs have participated in a «joint criminal enterprise» for the forcible removal of the majority of the Croat and other non-Serb population from the the approximately one-third of the territory of the Republic of Croatia that he planned to become part of a new Serb-dominated state through the commission of crimes.

Among the criminal charges relating to the war in Croatia, the Serbs are held responsible for murders of hundreds of civilians and the expulsion of 170,000 non-Serbs from their home towns.

The indictment against Milosevic and all the Serbs who participated in the criminal enterprise said all are responsible for the widespread killing of thousands of Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats. It accused Mr Milosevic of involvement in the murder, imprisonment and subjection to inhumane living conditions and forced labour of thousands of Bosnian Muslim, Bosnian Croat and other non-Serb civilians, including women and the elderly.

These are a facts and guys like David Ivanovic talk of a 'few guilty'!! They were more than a few, and only 100 Serbs have been charged so far for these crimes... because they are all under the protection of Serbia, just as Mladic and Karadzic.

THIS IS A SHAME!

Matthew

pre 17 godina

Victor, even if 1,000 new dead bodies were found each and every week, the total increase since 2004 would only be about another 100,000 or so. Bringing the total to 140,000.

However, 1,000 bodies are not found every week and once again you are just making up numbers. Why do you do this? I'm at a complete loss at why you do these types of things. As I've said, it only clouds the real issues. You're a French Canadian and don't even know a thing about the history of the area. Then again, you called Stepinac a Saint, support Operation Storm and feel the Serbs of Krajina deserved to be ethnically cleansed.

I support turning Mladic over to the Hague, and I support punishing those who are guilty. However, I can not and will not support such massive distortions of the truth such as you are engaging in. It only hurts the cause of moderate Serbs such as myself. Trust me, if you're upsetting me as much as you do, you are not reaching out to the Serbian community. I am probably one of the most moderate of the Serbian commentators here.

Victor

pre 17 godina

The most common and most widely used number of killed persons in the Bosnia war has been around 200,000. But research shows that this number is too high. I am awared of all these studies, but you should all remain awared that these figure change every week with the finding of new mass graves and the 1000s of bodies unhearthed.

Vlajko presents this report «Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. » But Vlajko did not mention that this report was published in 2004.

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html

The exact numbers, we will possibly never know. When I was a student, years ago, I've studied then that the casualties during WW2 was app. 50 000 000. Actual reports talk of 65 000 000.

I know that the Bosnians sometimes exagerate the figures and the numbers; and I also know that the serbs do the same. The importance is not uin the numbers but in the attitude of the aggressors: the Serbs. What they have accomplished during that war in Bosnia is comparable to what the Nazis have done. And the Omarska concentration camp shows it well. It was a complete horror for the victims. Rea the TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL and you will see what your people have done to innocent civilians... only because they were Bosnians.

And be sure Matthew that I will never want to have a friend as you!

Victor

pre 17 godina

The most common and most widely used number of killed persons in the Bosnia war has been around 200,000. But research shows that this number is too high. I am awared of all these studies, but you should all remain awared that these figure change every week with the finding of new mass graves and the 1000s of bodies unhearthed.

Vlajko presents this report «Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. » But Vlajko did not mention that this report was published in 2004.

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html

The exact numbers, we will possibly never know. When I was a student, years ago, I've studied then that the casualties during WW2 was app. 50 000 000. Actual reports talk of 65 000 000.

I know that the Bosnians sometimes exagerate the figures and the numbers; and I also know that the serbs do the same. The importance is not uin the numbers but in the attitude of the aggressors: the Serbs. What they have accomplished during that war in Bosnia is comparable to what the Nazis have done. And the Omarska concentration camp shows it well. It was a complete horror for the victims. Rea the TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL and you will see what your people have done to innocent civilians... only because they were Bosnians.

And be sure Matthew that I will never want to have a friend as you!

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

I think the Swiss are tired of pouring money into the Hague tribunal.
That is the reason she is stepping down. Serbia will not be in the stone age EU wants to move ahead with talks. Capturing 1 man is not going to solve the problems you should be chasing the trigger men. Because he is a Big Target all believe this will solve the problems of the world. Get over it and go on with life.

Matthew

pre 17 godina

Victor,

People like you who grossly exaggerate the number of dead in Bosnia do a great disservice in the search for the truth and are contributing just as much as Nationalistic Serbs to the present dismal situation. I actually laughed out loud when your numbers went up by nearly 100,000 in your next post. While I do strongly support a free and fair trial of Mladic to try to get to the truth, I do not support such obvious distortions of established fact. If there had been far less propaganda, it would be far easier for the Serbian people to learn and understand the truth. When the vast majority of statements coming from the West are obviously lies, it destroys the validity of any accusations of war crimes and only serves to hurt the possibly of justice for the victims. Also keep in mind, the Bosniaks were victims of both Serbian AND Croatian aggression. So at least some of the Bosniak dead are not the fault of the Serbs. I do not hear such strong statements from you regarding that treacherous act. I also know that in Banja Luka the ratio of single girls to single men is 12 to 1 as a result of the war. A lot of Serbs died too. Then again Victor, you're a supporter of Operation Storm and think the Serbs deserved it. Personally Victor, I think you are a forum troll and just like to upset people to get a reaction. Or maybe possibly you do it to re-enforce your own preconceived notions on how evil and stubborn and blind Serbs are. No rational person would attempt to engage in an intelligent conversation with someone like that.

The International Community should have delivered on some carrots and benefits for Serbian cooperation in delivering Milosevic, then they would have had a much better chance of catching Mladic and the pro-western forces might have had a chance at a solid control of the country. Instead they choose to keep pushing and punishing the Serbian people in general. Obviously this is not having the desired effect. They need to try a different approach.

In addition, what the US is doing in Iraq is clearly a tragedy of epic proportions. Hundreds of thousands dead that would not be dead if the US had not gone in there so unprepared in the first place without a valid reason for doing so. We are the direct cause of that civil war, and our actions only have the effect to make it worse. The US needs to get other Arab governments involved, but we don't like them, so we won't. Saddam was one of the most moderate and modern Arab leaders before the first Gulf War, and look at how US policy destroyed that country. Approximately 100,000 a year died because of the sanctions since the first gulf war. The Kurds there suffered horribly and much more then the Kosovars, yet the US strongly opposes their right to self determination even though they are the only stable part of the country. The US is not the beacon of freedom and supporter of Humanitarian rights you seem to think they are. They only do things if it is in their interest, and only use humanitarian reasons to justify their crimes.

Basically Victor, you turned the discussion from what to do about Mladic and the EU into a discussion on false propaganda and lies. Do you really think you are contributing to convincing Serbs that they should cooperate? This kind of nonsense needs to stop, so we Serbs can take an honest look at what was done in our names. The average Serb does not support the commission of war crimes, yet you consistently act as if we all do.

If Mladic truly cares about the Serbian people, he would turn himself in, regardless of his innocence or guilt. Even if completely innocent, a true soldier would give his life and his freedom for his people. And that my dear friend Victor is the reality of the situation.

luciano

pre 17 godina

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.It is immature to dwell on one man.George Bush learned this lesson when he promised the American people that he was going to get Bin Laden dead or alive.Seems like Bush's term is going to expire before he gets to see a video of Bin Laden's execution but maybe the one he saw of Saddam Hussein's hanging will be enough to warm him during those cold winter nights in Texas.Economic considerations have no business being interwined with political ones.The indictees are old men so just consider them irrelevant for the future of your region.If Interpol knows where they are then let them go get them but do not hold the economic future of the Balkans hostage to the irrelevance of wanted criminals.

Victor

pre 17 godina

Raso, I am 'running around' with imaginary numbers; they are those usually used by all when 'we' talk about the casualties for all the wars in the Balkans, and 70% of the death toll, between 200 000 and 250 000, are Bosnians.

Victor

pre 17 godina

«The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, today visited the Tribunal as part of his brief tour of international judicial institutions based in The Hague. During his meeting with President Pocar, the Secretary-General was briefed on the Tribunal’s completion strategy and the increasing efforts on the part of the Judges to conclude trials as expeditiously as possible. The issue of outstanding fugitives was raised, their impact upon the orderly completion of the Tribunal’s work and the action to be taken should they not be arrested in the near future.»

I hope that the Serbs will find and show courage and honour to fulfill their legal obligations towards all the innocent victims of the war in Bosnia.

Vlajko

pre 17 godina

plese dont play with numbers , that will hurt families and friends of victims.Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. Among military personnel, the researchers think close to 28,000 people were killed in the government army, mostly Bosnian Muslims. On the Serb side, 14,000 soldiers were killed, while a bit over 6,000 Bosnian Croat soldiers lost their lives because of actions of war."

The number of people killed in the war in Bosnia-Herzegovina was around 102,000, according to research done by the International Criminal Tribunalfor the former Yugoslavia (ICTY). This is half of earlier estimates.

You can even find this info on B92 so please people thinbk before you post. It is not moral to exadurate numbers...

raso

pre 17 godina

hey andrea, who wants into eu? didn´t you understand who stopped the negotiation and why?

i can´t believe that b92 is still allowing postings from victor, even if he´s running around with imaginary numbers about dead people.

Victor

pre 17 godina

Serbs like to point at others: look at the Americans! It is a civil war in Iraq, and thank God that the Americans are there to stop the killing among the Chhites and the Sunnites who are responsible for most of the 500 000 casualties.

?

pre 17 godina

What if Mladic dies, or IS ALREADY dead? Then what??? Tudjaman died before his indictment was released but this doesn't excuse him from the war crimes he committed in office. The same goes for Alija Izetbegovic. Seems to me some people here DO want to punish 8mil people over 1. This smells of Nazi germany tactics during WWII, demanding the handover of Gen. Draza Mihailovic. The only difference is the West is killing them by starving them / humiliating them instead of with bombs.

Let me ask a question to my Albanian friends here. Did the US ever commit war crimes? Like when they killed over 500,000 Iraqi civilians or when they dropped Atomic bombs over CIVILIAN cities (yes they PURPOSELY picked to bomb as MANY civilians as possible). Did YOUR ALLIES, YOUR becan of what is GOOD & RIGHT commit these crimes? Lets face the facts here, this has NOTHING whatsoever to do with LAW. The only law the WEST understands is the LAW of POWER, and not the POWER of LAW. This is why they will be doomed to same fate as those before them.

Peace

Kosmaj

pre 17 godina

Mladic will never see any jail. He have bad health and very soon he might leave us, or in some option he might commit suicide.In any case he will not go to jail. Without Mladic Serbia will be in Brussels. There is one saying ..nature will do everything alone.Give one or two more years and all this tug of war about Mladic will end and Serbia will be in EU

Victor

pre 17 godina

I am honoured to notice that there are nations in the world who stand up for justice and the human rights of others. In Serbia, it seems that only the criminals have rights. I am sorry to be rude but this is what I think!

Victor

pre 17 godina

BK-47, I disagree with you. If the Serbs don't deliver Mladic, I say that Serbia should remain in the stone age. We don't need people who harbor and protect criminals, furthermore, who agree with him, in the community of nations. And it is the duty of all Serbs to accept this reality and work to persuade theiur people that justice has to be done for the 160 000 Bosnians who were slaugthered by Mladic and his army.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

The fact remains that there is no integration talks with any country while the EU can't sort out its own internal politics and get the consitution ratified by all. The threat had a hollow ring to it in 2006 and is just as hollow in 2007.

BK-47

pre 17 godina

Ms Del Ponte wants to put Serbia back in the stone age by punishing 8 million people over 1 man. Mladic will never see the Hague or spend any time in any jail cell anywhere in the world. As much as that may upset some people, it is reality.

Andrea Baucero

pre 17 godina

BK-47, if Mladic is never going to see The Hague, then Serbia is never going to see Brussels, it's as simple as that. Luckily not all European governments are shameful like the Italian one. The UK, Netherlands and Scandinavian countries will never give in, you can be sure of this.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

The fact remains that there is no integration talks with any country while the EU can't sort out its own internal politics and get the consitution ratified by all. The threat had a hollow ring to it in 2006 and is just as hollow in 2007.

BK-47

pre 17 godina

Ms Del Ponte wants to put Serbia back in the stone age by punishing 8 million people over 1 man. Mladic will never see the Hague or spend any time in any jail cell anywhere in the world. As much as that may upset some people, it is reality.

Andrea Baucero

pre 17 godina

BK-47, if Mladic is never going to see The Hague, then Serbia is never going to see Brussels, it's as simple as that. Luckily not all European governments are shameful like the Italian one. The UK, Netherlands and Scandinavian countries will never give in, you can be sure of this.

Victor

pre 17 godina

BK-47, I disagree with you. If the Serbs don't deliver Mladic, I say that Serbia should remain in the stone age. We don't need people who harbor and protect criminals, furthermore, who agree with him, in the community of nations. And it is the duty of all Serbs to accept this reality and work to persuade theiur people that justice has to be done for the 160 000 Bosnians who were slaugthered by Mladic and his army.

Victor

pre 17 godina

I am honoured to notice that there are nations in the world who stand up for justice and the human rights of others. In Serbia, it seems that only the criminals have rights. I am sorry to be rude but this is what I think!

Kosmaj

pre 17 godina

Mladic will never see any jail. He have bad health and very soon he might leave us, or in some option he might commit suicide.In any case he will not go to jail. Without Mladic Serbia will be in Brussels. There is one saying ..nature will do everything alone.Give one or two more years and all this tug of war about Mladic will end and Serbia will be in EU

?

pre 17 godina

What if Mladic dies, or IS ALREADY dead? Then what??? Tudjaman died before his indictment was released but this doesn't excuse him from the war crimes he committed in office. The same goes for Alija Izetbegovic. Seems to me some people here DO want to punish 8mil people over 1. This smells of Nazi germany tactics during WWII, demanding the handover of Gen. Draza Mihailovic. The only difference is the West is killing them by starving them / humiliating them instead of with bombs.

Let me ask a question to my Albanian friends here. Did the US ever commit war crimes? Like when they killed over 500,000 Iraqi civilians or when they dropped Atomic bombs over CIVILIAN cities (yes they PURPOSELY picked to bomb as MANY civilians as possible). Did YOUR ALLIES, YOUR becan of what is GOOD & RIGHT commit these crimes? Lets face the facts here, this has NOTHING whatsoever to do with LAW. The only law the WEST understands is the LAW of POWER, and not the POWER of LAW. This is why they will be doomed to same fate as those before them.

Peace

Victor

pre 17 godina

Serbs like to point at others: look at the Americans! It is a civil war in Iraq, and thank God that the Americans are there to stop the killing among the Chhites and the Sunnites who are responsible for most of the 500 000 casualties.

raso

pre 17 godina

hey andrea, who wants into eu? didn´t you understand who stopped the negotiation and why?

i can´t believe that b92 is still allowing postings from victor, even if he´s running around with imaginary numbers about dead people.

Vlajko

pre 17 godina

plese dont play with numbers , that will hurt families and friends of victims.Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. Among military personnel, the researchers think close to 28,000 people were killed in the government army, mostly Bosnian Muslims. On the Serb side, 14,000 soldiers were killed, while a bit over 6,000 Bosnian Croat soldiers lost their lives because of actions of war."

The number of people killed in the war in Bosnia-Herzegovina was around 102,000, according to research done by the International Criminal Tribunalfor the former Yugoslavia (ICTY). This is half of earlier estimates.

You can even find this info on B92 so please people thinbk before you post. It is not moral to exadurate numbers...

Victor

pre 17 godina

Raso, I am 'running around' with imaginary numbers; they are those usually used by all when 'we' talk about the casualties for all the wars in the Balkans, and 70% of the death toll, between 200 000 and 250 000, are Bosnians.

Victor

pre 17 godina

«The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, today visited the Tribunal as part of his brief tour of international judicial institutions based in The Hague. During his meeting with President Pocar, the Secretary-General was briefed on the Tribunal’s completion strategy and the increasing efforts on the part of the Judges to conclude trials as expeditiously as possible. The issue of outstanding fugitives was raised, their impact upon the orderly completion of the Tribunal’s work and the action to be taken should they not be arrested in the near future.»

I hope that the Serbs will find and show courage and honour to fulfill their legal obligations towards all the innocent victims of the war in Bosnia.

luciano

pre 17 godina

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.It is immature to dwell on one man.George Bush learned this lesson when he promised the American people that he was going to get Bin Laden dead or alive.Seems like Bush's term is going to expire before he gets to see a video of Bin Laden's execution but maybe the one he saw of Saddam Hussein's hanging will be enough to warm him during those cold winter nights in Texas.Economic considerations have no business being interwined with political ones.The indictees are old men so just consider them irrelevant for the future of your region.If Interpol knows where they are then let them go get them but do not hold the economic future of the Balkans hostage to the irrelevance of wanted criminals.

Matthew

pre 17 godina

Victor,

People like you who grossly exaggerate the number of dead in Bosnia do a great disservice in the search for the truth and are contributing just as much as Nationalistic Serbs to the present dismal situation. I actually laughed out loud when your numbers went up by nearly 100,000 in your next post. While I do strongly support a free and fair trial of Mladic to try to get to the truth, I do not support such obvious distortions of established fact. If there had been far less propaganda, it would be far easier for the Serbian people to learn and understand the truth. When the vast majority of statements coming from the West are obviously lies, it destroys the validity of any accusations of war crimes and only serves to hurt the possibly of justice for the victims. Also keep in mind, the Bosniaks were victims of both Serbian AND Croatian aggression. So at least some of the Bosniak dead are not the fault of the Serbs. I do not hear such strong statements from you regarding that treacherous act. I also know that in Banja Luka the ratio of single girls to single men is 12 to 1 as a result of the war. A lot of Serbs died too. Then again Victor, you're a supporter of Operation Storm and think the Serbs deserved it. Personally Victor, I think you are a forum troll and just like to upset people to get a reaction. Or maybe possibly you do it to re-enforce your own preconceived notions on how evil and stubborn and blind Serbs are. No rational person would attempt to engage in an intelligent conversation with someone like that.

The International Community should have delivered on some carrots and benefits for Serbian cooperation in delivering Milosevic, then they would have had a much better chance of catching Mladic and the pro-western forces might have had a chance at a solid control of the country. Instead they choose to keep pushing and punishing the Serbian people in general. Obviously this is not having the desired effect. They need to try a different approach.

In addition, what the US is doing in Iraq is clearly a tragedy of epic proportions. Hundreds of thousands dead that would not be dead if the US had not gone in there so unprepared in the first place without a valid reason for doing so. We are the direct cause of that civil war, and our actions only have the effect to make it worse. The US needs to get other Arab governments involved, but we don't like them, so we won't. Saddam was one of the most moderate and modern Arab leaders before the first Gulf War, and look at how US policy destroyed that country. Approximately 100,000 a year died because of the sanctions since the first gulf war. The Kurds there suffered horribly and much more then the Kosovars, yet the US strongly opposes their right to self determination even though they are the only stable part of the country. The US is not the beacon of freedom and supporter of Humanitarian rights you seem to think they are. They only do things if it is in their interest, and only use humanitarian reasons to justify their crimes.

Basically Victor, you turned the discussion from what to do about Mladic and the EU into a discussion on false propaganda and lies. Do you really think you are contributing to convincing Serbs that they should cooperate? This kind of nonsense needs to stop, so we Serbs can take an honest look at what was done in our names. The average Serb does not support the commission of war crimes, yet you consistently act as if we all do.

If Mladic truly cares about the Serbian people, he would turn himself in, regardless of his innocence or guilt. Even if completely innocent, a true soldier would give his life and his freedom for his people. And that my dear friend Victor is the reality of the situation.

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

I think the Swiss are tired of pouring money into the Hague tribunal.
That is the reason she is stepping down. Serbia will not be in the stone age EU wants to move ahead with talks. Capturing 1 man is not going to solve the problems you should be chasing the trigger men. Because he is a Big Target all believe this will solve the problems of the world. Get over it and go on with life.

Victor

pre 17 godina

The most common and most widely used number of killed persons in the Bosnia war has been around 200,000. But research shows that this number is too high. I am awared of all these studies, but you should all remain awared that these figure change every week with the finding of new mass graves and the 1000s of bodies unhearthed.

Vlajko presents this report «Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. » But Vlajko did not mention that this report was published in 2004.

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html

The exact numbers, we will possibly never know. When I was a student, years ago, I've studied then that the casualties during WW2 was app. 50 000 000. Actual reports talk of 65 000 000.

I know that the Bosnians sometimes exagerate the figures and the numbers; and I also know that the serbs do the same. The importance is not uin the numbers but in the attitude of the aggressors: the Serbs. What they have accomplished during that war in Bosnia is comparable to what the Nazis have done. And the Omarska concentration camp shows it well. It was a complete horror for the victims. Rea the TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL and you will see what your people have done to innocent civilians... only because they were Bosnians.

And be sure Matthew that I will never want to have a friend as you!

Victor

pre 17 godina

The most common and most widely used number of killed persons in the Bosnia war has been around 200,000. But research shows that this number is too high. I am awared of all these studies, but you should all remain awared that these figure change every week with the finding of new mass graves and the 1000s of bodies unhearthed.

Vlajko presents this report «Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. » But Vlajko did not mention that this report was published in 2004.

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html

The exact numbers, we will possibly never know. When I was a student, years ago, I've studied then that the casualties during WW2 was app. 50 000 000. Actual reports talk of 65 000 000.

I know that the Bosnians sometimes exagerate the figures and the numbers; and I also know that the serbs do the same. The importance is not uin the numbers but in the attitude of the aggressors: the Serbs. What they have accomplished during that war in Bosnia is comparable to what the Nazis have done. And the Omarska concentration camp shows it well. It was a complete horror for the victims. Rea the TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL and you will see what your people have done to innocent civilians... only because they were Bosnians.

And be sure Matthew that I will never want to have a friend as you!

Matthew

pre 17 godina

Victor, even if 1,000 new dead bodies were found each and every week, the total increase since 2004 would only be about another 100,000 or so. Bringing the total to 140,000.

However, 1,000 bodies are not found every week and once again you are just making up numbers. Why do you do this? I'm at a complete loss at why you do these types of things. As I've said, it only clouds the real issues. You're a French Canadian and don't even know a thing about the history of the area. Then again, you called Stepinac a Saint, support Operation Storm and feel the Serbs of Krajina deserved to be ethnically cleansed.

I support turning Mladic over to the Hague, and I support punishing those who are guilty. However, I can not and will not support such massive distortions of the truth such as you are engaging in. It only hurts the cause of moderate Serbs such as myself. Trust me, if you're upsetting me as much as you do, you are not reaching out to the Serbian community. I am probably one of the most moderate of the Serbian commentators here.

Victor

pre 17 godina

«... you are not reaching out to the Serbian community.»

This is not my goal. My only goal is present the facts as they are, like them or not. Too many Serbs have participated in a «joint criminal enterprise» for the forcible removal of the majority of the Croat and other non-Serb population from the the approximately one-third of the territory of the Republic of Croatia that he planned to become part of a new Serb-dominated state through the commission of crimes.

Among the criminal charges relating to the war in Croatia, the Serbs are held responsible for murders of hundreds of civilians and the expulsion of 170,000 non-Serbs from their home towns.

The indictment against Milosevic and all the Serbs who participated in the criminal enterprise said all are responsible for the widespread killing of thousands of Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats. It accused Mr Milosevic of involvement in the murder, imprisonment and subjection to inhumane living conditions and forced labour of thousands of Bosnian Muslim, Bosnian Croat and other non-Serb civilians, including women and the elderly.

These are a facts and guys like David Ivanovic talk of a 'few guilty'!! They were more than a few, and only 100 Serbs have been charged so far for these crimes... because they are all under the protection of Serbia, just as Mladic and Karadzic.

THIS IS A SHAME!

Victor

pre 17 godina

«You're a French Canadian and don't even know a thing about the history of the area.» I have a degree in History, so I should know a bit!

J.S.

pre 17 godina

ALL ANGLO-SAXON POLITICIANS HAVE A COPY OF ALL MY WRITINGS, AND YOUR DUTY IS TO GIVE A COPY OF THIS TO EVERY YES EVERY MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT.

ORDER that stupid Radical Party to change their name as soon as possible like NOW! No one can help STUPID people, and what I am going to give is SOUND advice.

The meaning of the word RADICAL, regardless of what you will find in English dictionaries is sometihing grossly DISGUSTING to the ordinary person. In the ENGLISH LANGUAGE the meanings os words change with time and it takes time for the DICTIONARY to note the CHANGES.

If there is to be a grand coalition, a Government of National UNITY this will mean that the RADICALS will have to join it, and their name is UNACCEPTABLE UNACCEPTABLE. How can this be understood if it can not be understood in words!

If I was the ruler of Serbia, I would ask the Radical Party to change their name as soon as practical. If they refuse then I would pay VERY GOOD MONEY to false witnesses and the leader of the the would in jail very quickly on DEFINITE FALSE CHARGES, and he would only be released after his Party changed their name. HE would go to court and pay a large fine as penalty immediately after his Party changed their name.

He could never be leader of his Party again as the Mafia would tell him this things.

It is very progressive to want to follow the UN Charter, it is very progessive to want to follow International Law and the Constitution of your country. It is very prodressive to want to a multi-racial and multi-religious Community in ALL OF EUROPE.

Therefore, perhaps and only perhaps a good name is the Democratic Progressive Party of Serbia, or the Democratic People's Party of Serbia.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

The fact remains that there is no integration talks with any country while the EU can't sort out its own internal politics and get the consitution ratified by all. The threat had a hollow ring to it in 2006 and is just as hollow in 2007.

BK-47

pre 17 godina

Ms Del Ponte wants to put Serbia back in the stone age by punishing 8 million people over 1 man. Mladic will never see the Hague or spend any time in any jail cell anywhere in the world. As much as that may upset some people, it is reality.

Andrea Baucero

pre 17 godina

BK-47, if Mladic is never going to see The Hague, then Serbia is never going to see Brussels, it's as simple as that. Luckily not all European governments are shameful like the Italian one. The UK, Netherlands and Scandinavian countries will never give in, you can be sure of this.

Victor

pre 17 godina

BK-47, I disagree with you. If the Serbs don't deliver Mladic, I say that Serbia should remain in the stone age. We don't need people who harbor and protect criminals, furthermore, who agree with him, in the community of nations. And it is the duty of all Serbs to accept this reality and work to persuade theiur people that justice has to be done for the 160 000 Bosnians who were slaugthered by Mladic and his army.

Victor

pre 17 godina

I am honoured to notice that there are nations in the world who stand up for justice and the human rights of others. In Serbia, it seems that only the criminals have rights. I am sorry to be rude but this is what I think!

Kosmaj

pre 17 godina

Mladic will never see any jail. He have bad health and very soon he might leave us, or in some option he might commit suicide.In any case he will not go to jail. Without Mladic Serbia will be in Brussels. There is one saying ..nature will do everything alone.Give one or two more years and all this tug of war about Mladic will end and Serbia will be in EU

?

pre 17 godina

What if Mladic dies, or IS ALREADY dead? Then what??? Tudjaman died before his indictment was released but this doesn't excuse him from the war crimes he committed in office. The same goes for Alija Izetbegovic. Seems to me some people here DO want to punish 8mil people over 1. This smells of Nazi germany tactics during WWII, demanding the handover of Gen. Draza Mihailovic. The only difference is the West is killing them by starving them / humiliating them instead of with bombs.

Let me ask a question to my Albanian friends here. Did the US ever commit war crimes? Like when they killed over 500,000 Iraqi civilians or when they dropped Atomic bombs over CIVILIAN cities (yes they PURPOSELY picked to bomb as MANY civilians as possible). Did YOUR ALLIES, YOUR becan of what is GOOD & RIGHT commit these crimes? Lets face the facts here, this has NOTHING whatsoever to do with LAW. The only law the WEST understands is the LAW of POWER, and not the POWER of LAW. This is why they will be doomed to same fate as those before them.

Peace

Victor

pre 17 godina

Serbs like to point at others: look at the Americans! It is a civil war in Iraq, and thank God that the Americans are there to stop the killing among the Chhites and the Sunnites who are responsible for most of the 500 000 casualties.

raso

pre 17 godina

hey andrea, who wants into eu? didn´t you understand who stopped the negotiation and why?

i can´t believe that b92 is still allowing postings from victor, even if he´s running around with imaginary numbers about dead people.

Vlajko

pre 17 godina

plese dont play with numbers , that will hurt families and friends of victims.Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. Among military personnel, the researchers think close to 28,000 people were killed in the government army, mostly Bosnian Muslims. On the Serb side, 14,000 soldiers were killed, while a bit over 6,000 Bosnian Croat soldiers lost their lives because of actions of war."

The number of people killed in the war in Bosnia-Herzegovina was around 102,000, according to research done by the International Criminal Tribunalfor the former Yugoslavia (ICTY). This is half of earlier estimates.

You can even find this info on B92 so please people thinbk before you post. It is not moral to exadurate numbers...

Victor

pre 17 godina

Raso, I am 'running around' with imaginary numbers; they are those usually used by all when 'we' talk about the casualties for all the wars in the Balkans, and 70% of the death toll, between 200 000 and 250 000, are Bosnians.

Victor

pre 17 godina

«The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, today visited the Tribunal as part of his brief tour of international judicial institutions based in The Hague. During his meeting with President Pocar, the Secretary-General was briefed on the Tribunal’s completion strategy and the increasing efforts on the part of the Judges to conclude trials as expeditiously as possible. The issue of outstanding fugitives was raised, their impact upon the orderly completion of the Tribunal’s work and the action to be taken should they not be arrested in the near future.»

I hope that the Serbs will find and show courage and honour to fulfill their legal obligations towards all the innocent victims of the war in Bosnia.

luciano

pre 17 godina

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.It is immature to dwell on one man.George Bush learned this lesson when he promised the American people that he was going to get Bin Laden dead or alive.Seems like Bush's term is going to expire before he gets to see a video of Bin Laden's execution but maybe the one he saw of Saddam Hussein's hanging will be enough to warm him during those cold winter nights in Texas.Economic considerations have no business being interwined with political ones.The indictees are old men so just consider them irrelevant for the future of your region.If Interpol knows where they are then let them go get them but do not hold the economic future of the Balkans hostage to the irrelevance of wanted criminals.

Matthew

pre 17 godina

Victor,

People like you who grossly exaggerate the number of dead in Bosnia do a great disservice in the search for the truth and are contributing just as much as Nationalistic Serbs to the present dismal situation. I actually laughed out loud when your numbers went up by nearly 100,000 in your next post. While I do strongly support a free and fair trial of Mladic to try to get to the truth, I do not support such obvious distortions of established fact. If there had been far less propaganda, it would be far easier for the Serbian people to learn and understand the truth. When the vast majority of statements coming from the West are obviously lies, it destroys the validity of any accusations of war crimes and only serves to hurt the possibly of justice for the victims. Also keep in mind, the Bosniaks were victims of both Serbian AND Croatian aggression. So at least some of the Bosniak dead are not the fault of the Serbs. I do not hear such strong statements from you regarding that treacherous act. I also know that in Banja Luka the ratio of single girls to single men is 12 to 1 as a result of the war. A lot of Serbs died too. Then again Victor, you're a supporter of Operation Storm and think the Serbs deserved it. Personally Victor, I think you are a forum troll and just like to upset people to get a reaction. Or maybe possibly you do it to re-enforce your own preconceived notions on how evil and stubborn and blind Serbs are. No rational person would attempt to engage in an intelligent conversation with someone like that.

The International Community should have delivered on some carrots and benefits for Serbian cooperation in delivering Milosevic, then they would have had a much better chance of catching Mladic and the pro-western forces might have had a chance at a solid control of the country. Instead they choose to keep pushing and punishing the Serbian people in general. Obviously this is not having the desired effect. They need to try a different approach.

In addition, what the US is doing in Iraq is clearly a tragedy of epic proportions. Hundreds of thousands dead that would not be dead if the US had not gone in there so unprepared in the first place without a valid reason for doing so. We are the direct cause of that civil war, and our actions only have the effect to make it worse. The US needs to get other Arab governments involved, but we don't like them, so we won't. Saddam was one of the most moderate and modern Arab leaders before the first Gulf War, and look at how US policy destroyed that country. Approximately 100,000 a year died because of the sanctions since the first gulf war. The Kurds there suffered horribly and much more then the Kosovars, yet the US strongly opposes their right to self determination even though they are the only stable part of the country. The US is not the beacon of freedom and supporter of Humanitarian rights you seem to think they are. They only do things if it is in their interest, and only use humanitarian reasons to justify their crimes.

Basically Victor, you turned the discussion from what to do about Mladic and the EU into a discussion on false propaganda and lies. Do you really think you are contributing to convincing Serbs that they should cooperate? This kind of nonsense needs to stop, so we Serbs can take an honest look at what was done in our names. The average Serb does not support the commission of war crimes, yet you consistently act as if we all do.

If Mladic truly cares about the Serbian people, he would turn himself in, regardless of his innocence or guilt. Even if completely innocent, a true soldier would give his life and his freedom for his people. And that my dear friend Victor is the reality of the situation.

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

I think the Swiss are tired of pouring money into the Hague tribunal.
That is the reason she is stepping down. Serbia will not be in the stone age EU wants to move ahead with talks. Capturing 1 man is not going to solve the problems you should be chasing the trigger men. Because he is a Big Target all believe this will solve the problems of the world. Get over it and go on with life.

Victor

pre 17 godina

The most common and most widely used number of killed persons in the Bosnia war has been around 200,000. But research shows that this number is too high. I am awared of all these studies, but you should all remain awared that these figure change every week with the finding of new mass graves and the 1000s of bodies unhearthed.

Vlajko presents this report «Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. » But Vlajko did not mention that this report was published in 2004.

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html

The exact numbers, we will possibly never know. When I was a student, years ago, I've studied then that the casualties during WW2 was app. 50 000 000. Actual reports talk of 65 000 000.

I know that the Bosnians sometimes exagerate the figures and the numbers; and I also know that the serbs do the same. The importance is not uin the numbers but in the attitude of the aggressors: the Serbs. What they have accomplished during that war in Bosnia is comparable to what the Nazis have done. And the Omarska concentration camp shows it well. It was a complete horror for the victims. Rea the TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL and you will see what your people have done to innocent civilians... only because they were Bosnians.

And be sure Matthew that I will never want to have a friend as you!

Victor

pre 17 godina

The most common and most widely used number of killed persons in the Bosnia war has been around 200,000. But research shows that this number is too high. I am awared of all these studies, but you should all remain awared that these figure change every week with the finding of new mass graves and the 1000s of bodies unhearthed.

Vlajko presents this report «Death toll Bosnian war: The researchers estimate the number of killed civilian Muslims and Croats to be around 38,000, while the number of killed civilian Serbs was about 16,700. » But Vlajko did not mention that this report was published in 2004.

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html

The exact numbers, we will possibly never know. When I was a student, years ago, I've studied then that the casualties during WW2 was app. 50 000 000. Actual reports talk of 65 000 000.

I know that the Bosnians sometimes exagerate the figures and the numbers; and I also know that the serbs do the same. The importance is not uin the numbers but in the attitude of the aggressors: the Serbs. What they have accomplished during that war in Bosnia is comparable to what the Nazis have done. And the Omarska concentration camp shows it well. It was a complete horror for the victims. Rea the TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL and you will see what your people have done to innocent civilians... only because they were Bosnians.

And be sure Matthew that I will never want to have a friend as you!

Matthew

pre 17 godina

Victor, even if 1,000 new dead bodies were found each and every week, the total increase since 2004 would only be about another 100,000 or so. Bringing the total to 140,000.

However, 1,000 bodies are not found every week and once again you are just making up numbers. Why do you do this? I'm at a complete loss at why you do these types of things. As I've said, it only clouds the real issues. You're a French Canadian and don't even know a thing about the history of the area. Then again, you called Stepinac a Saint, support Operation Storm and feel the Serbs of Krajina deserved to be ethnically cleansed.

I support turning Mladic over to the Hague, and I support punishing those who are guilty. However, I can not and will not support such massive distortions of the truth such as you are engaging in. It only hurts the cause of moderate Serbs such as myself. Trust me, if you're upsetting me as much as you do, you are not reaching out to the Serbian community. I am probably one of the most moderate of the Serbian commentators here.

Victor

pre 17 godina

«... you are not reaching out to the Serbian community.»

This is not my goal. My only goal is present the facts as they are, like them or not. Too many Serbs have participated in a «joint criminal enterprise» for the forcible removal of the majority of the Croat and other non-Serb population from the the approximately one-third of the territory of the Republic of Croatia that he planned to become part of a new Serb-dominated state through the commission of crimes.

Among the criminal charges relating to the war in Croatia, the Serbs are held responsible for murders of hundreds of civilians and the expulsion of 170,000 non-Serbs from their home towns.

The indictment against Milosevic and all the Serbs who participated in the criminal enterprise said all are responsible for the widespread killing of thousands of Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats. It accused Mr Milosevic of involvement in the murder, imprisonment and subjection to inhumane living conditions and forced labour of thousands of Bosnian Muslim, Bosnian Croat and other non-Serb civilians, including women and the elderly.

These are a facts and guys like David Ivanovic talk of a 'few guilty'!! They were more than a few, and only 100 Serbs have been charged so far for these crimes... because they are all under the protection of Serbia, just as Mladic and Karadzic.

THIS IS A SHAME!

Victor

pre 17 godina

«You're a French Canadian and don't even know a thing about the history of the area.» I have a degree in History, so I should know a bit!

J.S.

pre 17 godina

ALL ANGLO-SAXON POLITICIANS HAVE A COPY OF ALL MY WRITINGS, AND YOUR DUTY IS TO GIVE A COPY OF THIS TO EVERY YES EVERY MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT.

ORDER that stupid Radical Party to change their name as soon as possible like NOW! No one can help STUPID people, and what I am going to give is SOUND advice.

The meaning of the word RADICAL, regardless of what you will find in English dictionaries is sometihing grossly DISGUSTING to the ordinary person. In the ENGLISH LANGUAGE the meanings os words change with time and it takes time for the DICTIONARY to note the CHANGES.

If there is to be a grand coalition, a Government of National UNITY this will mean that the RADICALS will have to join it, and their name is UNACCEPTABLE UNACCEPTABLE. How can this be understood if it can not be understood in words!

If I was the ruler of Serbia, I would ask the Radical Party to change their name as soon as practical. If they refuse then I would pay VERY GOOD MONEY to false witnesses and the leader of the the would in jail very quickly on DEFINITE FALSE CHARGES, and he would only be released after his Party changed their name. HE would go to court and pay a large fine as penalty immediately after his Party changed their name.

He could never be leader of his Party again as the Mafia would tell him this things.

It is very progressive to want to follow the UN Charter, it is very progessive to want to follow International Law and the Constitution of your country. It is very prodressive to want to a multi-racial and multi-religious Community in ALL OF EUROPE.

Therefore, perhaps and only perhaps a good name is the Democratic Progressive Party of Serbia, or the Democratic People's Party of Serbia.