Ahtisaari in Belgrade and Priština tomorrow

"Carl Bildt said in Priština that Ahtisaari was to bring the working plan and, not a final version, of the document."

So can any of those comentators who disbelieved that this was a DRAFT please understand this is a working DRAFT - as such it will be worked upon and negotiated to create a proposal that will pass the UN security council. If you don't like plan A-thiarri get ready for plan B-an Ki Moon!

Learn to realise that it is the interest of all the peoples of Serbia (including its province of Kosovo & Metohija) to negotaite the win-win.

Try to remember the Constitution have everything recorded because it might be used against you in a Court of Law.

Vuk Draskovic will propably not need to keep anyone honest except maybe himself.

The meeting should be brief, very polite and especially have NO off the record comments.

Princip, your still dreaming? I am ashamed that i still have some neighbors who still dream in the middle of the day even in the 21st century.
Good luck with your dreams, but remember that Kosova is not going to stay with Serbia since you people dream too much.
Stop living in the world of myths.

Hey Princip, get of with your copy and paste comenst, such as: to negotiate the win win. I beleive you are still day-dreaming guy. Except the fact that KOSOVA will never be ruled by serbia again. You can calle it a working draft or whatever name suits you, the end result will be in Kosova's favour.

Princip, what are you talking about, don’t try to preach. Time is ticking in favor of Kosovar people. I thought by now even Serbian people realize that.

To Princip.
More your comments I read I make sure you are not serious and you are not living with facts. President Ahtisari is just a person a mediator, and if he gives a plan you should know his plan is based on the principles of contact group signed also from Rusia. So he is presenting the will of mayor powers including Rusia and GB where you are living. Why you live with false hopes (or maybe you are selling false hope to your community) and don't came here in Kosova to see how serbs community live or to try to help them in any way. I can join you in this campaign.
Its safe to live in England, and play with your people feelings, try to change this approach.

Okay let's examine this a little bit:

1)Provisions for joining world bodies including UN
2)State symbols including flag and anthem.
3)Control of its borders (i.e. sovreignty)
4)Professional Army
5)Washington and many EU states among the first to recognize Kosova as an independent republic.

Now it looks to me like that is very much INDEPENDENCE. Many Serbs at this moment will turn to sticking their heads in the sand and pretending that nothing is going on...but that is not the case. It is obvious that de jure independence is only a matter of weeks now. De Facto it is already here. No amount of Serbian propaganda can change that.

Princip, you're unbelievably funny on the fact that you think that there will be a win-win compromise. One side will lose.

To make things clearer for you, Serbia lost ALL rights to rule over Kosovo when it KILLED its own citizens.

Virtually all Albanians do not want to be under Serbia's rule again. Unless you can prove that Serbs have changed and are now actually angels who can in Fact fly, their position will not change.

By constantly repeating the word "draft" you are trying to tell us that somehow because its a "draft" Serbia can still propose and make substantial changes.

I somehow get the impression that you think Ahtisari locked himself up in a dark room and started writing the 'draft' as he liked and now that he's out of the dark room the 'draft' can be reviewed and amended.

That is by far one of the most ridiculous arguements i have even heard.

Ahtisari wrote his proposal while constantly consulting the contact group. The 'draft' represents the positions of the major world powers. There is nothing you can do about it.

-= Everything is a draft until such time as it is approved =-

Ahtisari's document will remain a 'draft' until it is aproved by the UNSC. In the meanwhile both the albanian and the serbian parties will be allowed to make "small and technical" changes to the document, however the subtance is there and its not going to go away.

Your constant attempts to find legal gaps that will allow you to somehow change the "draft" are futile.

HERE IS YOUR HERO!!!“Vetëvendosje” rules down concessions for the cancellation of the protest
01.02.2007 ET Prishtina (KosovaLive)

“Vetëvendosje” movement leader, Albin Kurti told KosovaLive today that he will not accept any pressure to change his plans for the organization of a protest on February 10th and that he backs his plans to object any initiative for the resolution of the status, which does not foresee the right of Kosova’s people for self-determination. >>>MAYBE HE WILL DO IT TOMMOROW???

My my my, such simple headlines like Ahtisaari in Belgrade Tomorrow, or Ahtisaari checks into Pristina hotel, or Ahtisaari orders Rakija already produces the daily rants. I'll reserve my comments for when something substantial is reported, but if the comments on this site of late are any indication of the sentiments felt between the Serbs and Albanians, may Heaven help anyone trying to get you two to reconcile again.

Kurti is not pleased.erx

"UN special envoy Marti Ahtisaari’s plan specifies the decisions under the UN Security Council’s Resolution 1244, that is, a substantial autonomy of Kosovo", Albin Kurti, leader of the radical movement in Kosovo, Self-Determination, said in an interview with FOCUS News Agency. "According to Ahtisaari’s plan, Kosovo will not be represented in the UN, won’t have an army, ministry of defense and foreign ministry. Besides, UNMIK will be succeeded by another international mission, which, similarly to the one in Bosnia and Herzegovina, will be all-powerful. Probably, Kosovo will be able to apply for membership in some international organizations, but only the international mission, which will be deployed in Kosovo, will be allowed to make such a demand. It’s another question whether the demand will be met. Consequently, Ahtisaari’s proposal has nothing to do with Kosovo’s independence, state system and sovereignty, Kurti stated.

as Germans entered Prizren in Kosovo for the first time since World War II, an NBC correspondent reported:

"I was at dinner with a kind Kosovo Muslim family the other night when talk turned to the German NATO troops that rolled into town to make the city the headquarters of its peacekeeping district. The patriarch of the family, a man old enough to remember the last time German troops rolled into Prizren, said they all felt safe now. 'The German soldiers are excellent,' he said. Then he added, 'I should know, I used to be one.' Then he raised his arm in a Nazi salute and said, 'Heil,' and laughed merrily."

More truth @ www.tenc.net

Hitler would be proud.
Hoping for good & real justice to prevail.

Even if Ahtisaris proposal would be final without the magic word, then it would become working draft, otherwise it would not comply with Contact Group's principle (the will of majority of Kosovo people) :) and of course would not comply with the will of majority of Kosovo people who 7 years ago had to fleed their homes from Serbian government's ethnic cleansing policy (not very different from todays policy which is more like "we want the Territory not the People").
Albanian Muslims and Catholics (for your information), make the majority of people in Kosovo.

Even Kosovo independence does not mean the end of our struggle or the complete and forever loss of what we hold most dear in our hearts. Once Kosovo and Serbia join the EU we will have the same rights to live and work there as before.

We need to focus on massive economic investment in Kosovo, particularly in real estate. Right now is a good time for those of us in the Serbian Diaspora. We all need to buy summer homes in those areas that contain our churches and heritage. Right now, property will be at the cheapest levels we will see for a long time. We should all be in a position to buy at least some land in Kosovo. We should focus on working together to enable us all to invest there. Does anyone know a good real estate agent in Kosovo. I personally am more then willing to purchase land there. If any Serbs here are planning to leave, please consider selling me your land before selling it to an Albanian.

Already our goods stock the store shelves in Kosovo and we must do our best to continue that.

If we can lift the standard of living there, Albanians will be happy and content, and might actually start to like us. It would also make it more attractive for the average Serb to live there. Happy content people do not engage in violence and do not like change. If only we had pursued such a course of action in the past, we would not be in the current situation. We as Serbs do share the blame for not being active enough in taking care of Kosovo which we all hold so dear.

Religious tourism should be expanded and encouraged. Then the Albanians will view our religious sites as a economic benefit and not a personal liability.

If it comes down to Independence, we can still turn it into a true win-win situation. There is no need for violence or hatred. We need to look at what helps both our people.

I personally still support partition as an option. However, if Serbia can not have it, then we Serbs must buy it. We must change the situation so Serbs want to live there, for if we don't, then it will truly be lost.

Its as simple as that, and if we all care for Kosovo as we claim we do, then let's put our money where our mouth is. It worked for the Jews in Israel, it can work for us as well. We waited hundreds of years to liberate Kosovo from the Turkish yoke, we should be able to do it again.

Matthew,
With all your sugary sweet rhetoric, you still end up sounding like a "dyed in the wool" Nationalist.

You seem to have a rather bizzare need to be physically near your churches and monastaries. A truly spiritual person realizes that physical proximaty to places of worship is irrelevent since God is everywhere. Have no fear, Albanians will care for and protect the holy shrines as well as Serbs would. After all, these holy places belong to the Albanians as much as they do the Serbs.

I am a bit shocked to hear you say that Serbs owning property in Kosova, should sell their properties to other Serbs before selling their property to an Albanian.
What if the Albanian offered more money than the Serb did?
Would you take less money for property than was neccessary?
That does not sound very Christian like. Are you sure you are not what you prentend to be?

Arben, I actually said they should consider selling their property to ME, and of course I would pay fair market value. Anything less would be unfair, I would think. I was making a serious offer to anyone who reads this post if they plan to sell their land and move out of Kosovo.

Although I do care much for Serbian religious sites, and the Serbian nation as a whole, it does not mean that I hate all things non-Serb. I'm a direct descendent of the Nemanjic Dynasty, so yes, Kosovo is very holy, special, and important to me. I worry greatly that our culture is being destroyed and wiped out in Kosovo. While I do not believe the majority of Albanians want to destroy our churches, it only take one person to do so. If you've read some of the justifications for the destruction of our churches posted by some of the commentators here, you would understand my worry.

I actually have a very great interest in Albanian culture, society and history. I have read many many books on the subject, and I nearly flew out to Kosovo to take you up on your offer to host a party for Kosovo's independence, but I'm in New York this week (My wife and son are in Bosnia at the moment). I think you would find me to be a very reasonable and fair person. I consistently call for dialog and communication between our two peoples. We need to look at one another as individuals if we are going to get past the cycle of violence. I would never support the use of violence to solve anything, I find it highly counter productive. Regardless of the outcome of the status negotiations I will continue to reach out to the Albanian community in the hope that we can mend that which has torn us apart. We have far more in common then differences. One look at the posts on this site proves that we are all nearly identical in temperament and outlook. If any Albanians are interested in starting a real dialog with a Serb, I am more then willing to hear your viewpoints. I can be reached at lazslow@hotmail.com.

I do in fact support the right of Albanians to have self determination in all areas in which they live. I only ask that Serbs be given the same, and also be given the opportunity to trade for those areas of Kosovo that are most sacred. I am not a hypocrite, and I do not support anything for the Serbs that I would not support for the Albanians as well. However, do not think that means I think giving up our churches is a good thing for my people. Regardless of myth or reality, that to us is the cradle of our civilization and our culture. Don’t mistake my attachment to history and culture as being religious, I am in fact very secular and believe religion very often ends in violence. Its my personal family history and that of my people that I feel is important. Maybe I am a "dyed in the wool" Nationalist, but isn't my outlook much better then those in the past? Everything I have ever suggested has taken into account the needs of the Albanian population as well as the Serbian one. I have done Humanitarian work with Bosniaks, so I'm not such a bad fellow. I just care a lot about Serbia.

"Carl Bildt said in Priština that Ahtisaari was to bring the working plan and, not a final version, of the document."

So can any of those comentators who disbelieved that this was a DRAFT please understand this is a working DRAFT - as such it will be worked upon and negotiated to create a proposal that will pass the UN security council. If you don't like plan A-thiarri get ready for plan B-an Ki Moon!

Learn to realise that it is the interest of all the peoples of Serbia (including its province of Kosovo & Metohija) to negotaite the win-win.

Try to remember the Constitution have everything recorded because it might be used against you in a Court of Law.

Vuk Draskovic will propably not need to keep anyone honest except maybe himself.

The meeting should be brief, very polite and especially have NO off the record comments.

Princip, your still dreaming? I am ashamed that i still have some neighbors who still dream in the middle of the day even in the 21st century.
Good luck with your dreams, but remember that Kosova is not going to stay with Serbia since you people dream too much.
Stop living in the world of myths.

Hey Princip, get of with your copy and paste comenst, such as: to negotiate the win win. I beleive you are still day-dreaming guy. Except the fact that KOSOVA will never be ruled by serbia again. You can calle it a working draft or whatever name suits you, the end result will be in Kosova's favour.

Princip, what are you talking about, don’t try to preach. Time is ticking in favor of Kosovar people. I thought by now even Serbian people realize that.

To Princip.
More your comments I read I make sure you are not serious and you are not living with facts. President Ahtisari is just a person a mediator, and if he gives a plan you should know his plan is based on the principles of contact group signed also from Rusia. So he is presenting the will of mayor powers including Rusia and GB where you are living. Why you live with false hopes (or maybe you are selling false hope to your community) and don't came here in Kosova to see how serbs community live or to try to help them in any way. I can join you in this campaign.
Its safe to live in England, and play with your people feelings, try to change this approach.

Okay let's examine this a little bit:

1)Provisions for joining world bodies including UN
2)State symbols including flag and anthem.
3)Control of its borders (i.e. sovreignty)
4)Professional Army
5)Washington and many EU states among the first to recognize Kosova as an independent republic.

Now it looks to me like that is very much INDEPENDENCE. Many Serbs at this moment will turn to sticking their heads in the sand and pretending that nothing is going on...but that is not the case. It is obvious that de jure independence is only a matter of weeks now. De Facto it is already here. No amount of Serbian propaganda can change that.

Princip, you're unbelievably funny on the fact that you think that there will be a win-win compromise. One side will lose.

To make things clearer for you, Serbia lost ALL rights to rule over Kosovo when it KILLED its own citizens.

Virtually all Albanians do not want to be under Serbia's rule again. Unless you can prove that Serbs have changed and are now actually angels who can in Fact fly, their position will not change.

By constantly repeating the word "draft" you are trying to tell us that somehow because its a "draft" Serbia can still propose and make substantial changes.

I somehow get the impression that you think Ahtisari locked himself up in a dark room and started writing the 'draft' as he liked and now that he's out of the dark room the 'draft' can be reviewed and amended.

That is by far one of the most ridiculous arguements i have even heard.

Ahtisari wrote his proposal while constantly consulting the contact group. The 'draft' represents the positions of the major world powers. There is nothing you can do about it.

-= Everything is a draft until such time as it is approved =-

Ahtisari's document will remain a 'draft' until it is aproved by the UNSC. In the meanwhile both the albanian and the serbian parties will be allowed to make "small and technical" changes to the document, however the subtance is there and its not going to go away.

Your constant attempts to find legal gaps that will allow you to somehow change the "draft" are futile.

HERE IS YOUR HERO!!!“Vetëvendosje” rules down concessions for the cancellation of the protest
01.02.2007 ET Prishtina (KosovaLive)

“Vetëvendosje” movement leader, Albin Kurti told KosovaLive today that he will not accept any pressure to change his plans for the organization of a protest on February 10th and that he backs his plans to object any initiative for the resolution of the status, which does not foresee the right of Kosova’s people for self-determination. >>>MAYBE HE WILL DO IT TOMMOROW???

My my my, such simple headlines like Ahtisaari in Belgrade Tomorrow, or Ahtisaari checks into Pristina hotel, or Ahtisaari orders Rakija already produces the daily rants. I'll reserve my comments for when something substantial is reported, but if the comments on this site of late are any indication of the sentiments felt between the Serbs and Albanians, may Heaven help anyone trying to get you two to reconcile again.

Kurti is not pleased.erx

"UN special envoy Marti Ahtisaari’s plan specifies the decisions under the UN Security Council’s Resolution 1244, that is, a substantial autonomy of Kosovo", Albin Kurti, leader of the radical movement in Kosovo, Self-Determination, said in an interview with FOCUS News Agency. "According to Ahtisaari’s plan, Kosovo will not be represented in the UN, won’t have an army, ministry of defense and foreign ministry. Besides, UNMIK will be succeeded by another international mission, which, similarly to the one in Bosnia and Herzegovina, will be all-powerful. Probably, Kosovo will be able to apply for membership in some international organizations, but only the international mission, which will be deployed in Kosovo, will be allowed to make such a demand. It’s another question whether the demand will be met. Consequently, Ahtisaari’s proposal has nothing to do with Kosovo’s independence, state system and sovereignty, Kurti stated.

as Germans entered Prizren in Kosovo for the first time since World War II, an NBC correspondent reported:

"I was at dinner with a kind Kosovo Muslim family the other night when talk turned to the German NATO troops that rolled into town to make the city the headquarters of its peacekeeping district. The patriarch of the family, a man old enough to remember the last time German troops rolled into Prizren, said they all felt safe now. 'The German soldiers are excellent,' he said. Then he added, 'I should know, I used to be one.' Then he raised his arm in a Nazi salute and said, 'Heil,' and laughed merrily."

More truth @ www.tenc.net

Hitler would be proud.
Hoping for good & real justice to prevail.

Even if Ahtisaris proposal would be final without the magic word, then it would become working draft, otherwise it would not comply with Contact Group's principle (the will of majority of Kosovo people) :) and of course would not comply with the will of majority of Kosovo people who 7 years ago had to fleed their homes from Serbian government's ethnic cleansing policy (not very different from todays policy which is more like "we want the Territory not the People").
Albanian Muslims and Catholics (for your information), make the majority of people in Kosovo.

Even Kosovo independence does not mean the end of our struggle or the complete and forever loss of what we hold most dear in our hearts. Once Kosovo and Serbia join the EU we will have the same rights to live and work there as before.

We need to focus on massive economic investment in Kosovo, particularly in real estate. Right now is a good time for those of us in the Serbian Diaspora. We all need to buy summer homes in those areas that contain our churches and heritage. Right now, property will be at the cheapest levels we will see for a long time. We should all be in a position to buy at least some land in Kosovo. We should focus on working together to enable us all to invest there. Does anyone know a good real estate agent in Kosovo. I personally am more then willing to purchase land there. If any Serbs here are planning to leave, please consider selling me your land before selling it to an Albanian.

Already our goods stock the store shelves in Kosovo and we must do our best to continue that.

If we can lift the standard of living there, Albanians will be happy and content, and might actually start to like us. It would also make it more attractive for the average Serb to live there. Happy content people do not engage in violence and do not like change. If only we had pursued such a course of action in the past, we would not be in the current situation. We as Serbs do share the blame for not being active enough in taking care of Kosovo which we all hold so dear.

Religious tourism should be expanded and encouraged. Then the Albanians will view our religious sites as a economic benefit and not a personal liability.

If it comes down to Independence, we can still turn it into a true win-win situation. There is no need for violence or hatred. We need to look at what helps both our people.

I personally still support partition as an option. However, if Serbia can not have it, then we Serbs must buy it. We must change the situation so Serbs want to live there, for if we don't, then it will truly be lost.

Its as simple as that, and if we all care for Kosovo as we claim we do, then let's put our money where our mouth is. It worked for the Jews in Israel, it can work for us as well. We waited hundreds of years to liberate Kosovo from the Turkish yoke, we should be able to do it again.

Matthew,
With all your sugary sweet rhetoric, you still end up sounding like a "dyed in the wool" Nationalist.

You seem to have a rather bizzare need to be physically near your churches and monastaries. A truly spiritual person realizes that physical proximaty to places of worship is irrelevent since God is everywhere. Have no fear, Albanians will care for and protect the holy shrines as well as Serbs would. After all, these holy places belong to the Albanians as much as they do the Serbs.

I am a bit shocked to hear you say that Serbs owning property in Kosova, should sell their properties to other Serbs before selling their property to an Albanian.
What if the Albanian offered more money than the Serb did?
Would you take less money for property than was neccessary?
That does not sound very Christian like. Are you sure you are not what you prentend to be?

Arben, I actually said they should consider selling their property to ME, and of course I would pay fair market value. Anything less would be unfair, I would think. I was making a serious offer to anyone who reads this post if they plan to sell their land and move out of Kosovo.

Although I do care much for Serbian religious sites, and the Serbian nation as a whole, it does not mean that I hate all things non-Serb. I'm a direct descendent of the Nemanjic Dynasty, so yes, Kosovo is very holy, special, and important to me. I worry greatly that our culture is being destroyed and wiped out in Kosovo. While I do not believe the majority of Albanians want to destroy our churches, it only take one person to do so. If you've read some of the justifications for the destruction of our churches posted by some of the commentators here, you would understand my worry.

I actually have a very great interest in Albanian culture, society and history. I have read many many books on the subject, and I nearly flew out to Kosovo to take you up on your offer to host a party for Kosovo's independence, but I'm in New York this week (My wife and son are in Bosnia at the moment). I think you would find me to be a very reasonable and fair person. I consistently call for dialog and communication between our two peoples. We need to look at one another as individuals if we are going to get past the cycle of violence. I would never support the use of violence to solve anything, I find it highly counter productive. Regardless of the outcome of the status negotiations I will continue to reach out to the Albanian community in the hope that we can mend that which has torn us apart. We have far more in common then differences. One look at the posts on this site proves that we are all nearly identical in temperament and outlook. If any Albanians are interested in starting a real dialog with a Serb, I am more then willing to hear your viewpoints. I can be reached at lazslow@hotmail.com.

I do in fact support the right of Albanians to have self determination in all areas in which they live. I only ask that Serbs be given the same, and also be given the opportunity to trade for those areas of Kosovo that are most sacred. I am not a hypocrite, and I do not support anything for the Serbs that I would not support for the Albanians as well. However, do not think that means I think giving up our churches is a good thing for my people. Regardless of myth or reality, that to us is the cradle of our civilization and our culture. Don’t mistake my attachment to history and culture as being religious, I am in fact very secular and believe religion very often ends in violence. Its my personal family history and that of my people that I feel is important. Maybe I am a "dyed in the wool" Nationalist, but isn't my outlook much better then those in the past? Everything I have ever suggested has taken into account the needs of the Albanian population as well as the Serbian one. I have done Humanitarian work with Bosniaks, so I'm not such a bad fellow. I just care a lot about Serbia.