Operation Storm trial to begin in May

I'm not sure why the defense team is trying to delay the trial? After all, the Hague will release all 3 after being found guilty as they did with the murderous Naser Oric. They would do well to remember that only Serbs get found guilty followed by a disproportionately heavy custodial sentence.

anthony, which is precisely why they will never get mladic or karadzic. they can choke on their court.

Oh please. why dont u do a little research about all the hague cases and find out truthfully if its ONLY serbs. In fact, let me help you...the UN website will give you all the info u need.

Daniel it takes no intelligence to see that the majority of trials at the Hague have been conducted against Serbs. If you look at what Oric did with his Muslim militia and then take into account the trial and eventual sentence handed out to Oric then the only conclusion a sane and intelligent person could possibly come to is that the court is politicised and thus un-impartial... vis-a-vis illegal.

The ridiculous length of sentence handed out to Plavsic for example. Was she in charge of a murderous bunch of rapists who butchered 3500 Serbs prior to the 'revenge' killing at Srebrenica? No she wasn't but her sentence was of 'Oric' proportions so to speak.

And why would i consult the UN on anything? It is a puppet organisation which is as impotent as an old mans loins! It has done nothing to address Serbian victims and grievances so why would i treat its media spun website as a paragan of truth? Refering me to it shows that you are just a thoughtless individual who relies on spoon fed statistics to support weak theory.

The Serbs accused the Croats of murder, ethnic cleansing, and they were the first one to start in 1992. Entire villages were cleansed of all Croats in order to create Greater Serbia. What did the Serbs expect? When the Croats finally manage to organize themselves with the aid of the American, they applied the same medecine. I don't say it is right but I can understand. You cannot make an omelet without breaking the eggs.

So victor if you accept that the croats were just as evil in 1995 could you enlighten us on why Tudjman et al was not immediatly indited? Morover, you would also imply that the judgement for Oric should have been and equally when it comes for Gotovina et al should be just as fair and equal to the long terms met out on the Serbs convicted thus far? Or do you think a Serb life is less then a Croat? Would be interesting to read coments to such a question form both Daniel & Victor.

"The Serbs accused the Croats of murder, ethnic cleansing, and they were the first one to start in 1992."

No Victor, you are ignorant. The Croatian war started in 1991, not 1992. And the Croats such as Tomislav Mercep and Miro Bajramovic were torturing and killing civilian Serbs in 1991.

You realy need to brush up on your research and get the dates of when the fighting/skirmishes and war started.

"The indictment alleges that more than 150 civilians, ethnic Serbs, were killed in the Krajina region while tens of thousands of them were expelled to Serbia and Bosnia Herzegovina"

More like hundreds of thousands were displaced. Funny how the numbers are reduced when it comes to Serbs who were abused, but the numbers are always increased when it comes to victims of Serbs.

Victor, according to the Economist (back in the early 90's at the begining of the war), it was actually the Croats who coined the term ethnic cleansing and started it.

Tudjman and Milosevic were BOTH criminals of equal horror. The Croats had much better PR, read some of the comments their PR company made. Its very interesting.

until americans and croats are brought to answer for operation storm... there will be no mladic and no karadzic. serbia has made this very clear. nomore bannana courts. there is very little that europe, america or anyone else can do about it. if it even came down to handing them over... BG would first choose to liquidate. don't be naive.

Ida, don't be disrespectful, please. You know well that if Milosevic would have accepted the independance of Croatia, nothing of this would have happened. And you also know that what the Serbs have accomplished in Croatia, especially in Vukovar, with the killing of 300 patients from an hospital, is horrific.

As for Operation Oluja, I think that Croatia had the rigt to fight by all means the Serb rebels who had divided their country. Too bad that Milosevic did not evacuate his citizens before the arrival of the Croat Army. He is responsible for the death of the civilians who were killed.

viktor, who shall answer for the ethnic cleansing of of 400,000 people from croatia?

You are forgetting that Tudjman and his government wanted to remove the Croatian Serb population and were making way for this before the war.

The Serbs fought for their lives against a government which wanted to kill off the Serbs.

The independence was hasty with no guarantees or protection of Serb rights.

There were mass firings of all ethnic Serbs, threats, murders, bombs at their restaurants and cafes.

There was a threatening, racist atmosphere for a few years before the war.

The Serbs couldn't agree to an "independence" which meant their people would be completely ethnically cleansed or given 3rd class status and pressured out by being cut from jobs and having no rights in the courts and so on.

You also apparently have no problems with the murder of elderly civilian Serbs during Oluja. Many of the Serbs who stayed behind - were too old or sick to move out quick - were killed, sometimes by beheading.

Also, a few months before Operation Storm the Croats did another on a smaller scale - it was a "dress rehearsal" for Operation Storm - called Operation Flash.

They also killed Serb civilians in 1993 in the Medak pocket.

This is a report on what the Canadian soldiers witnessed:

http://www.cbc.ca/national/videofeatures/

Isn't it curious how the article makes no mention that Gotovina is to be represented by a Pentagon defence lawyer?

Now why would the americans be interested in supporting a war criminal?

Could it be that the US, who armed, trained and organised croatian forces (let us not forget the donation of much of east Germany's military materiel) legally can be held to account for croatian war crimes as you can be prosecuted for not stopping war crimes if you are in a position to do so?

MPRI, one of the 'unofficial' pentagon companies staffed by 'ex' generals etc. was closely tied to the croatian armed forces, is a solid link. Secondly, the US Navy flew coordinated air-strikes against bosnian serb radar sites as Operation Oluja.

That's more that enough to indict the United States for war crimes and to be hauled in front of the ICTY. But it won't happen, will it?

There is a reason the ICTY is an 'ad-hoc' tribunal and not an official UN tribunal, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Victor,

please don't be so ignorant that you now state that all Serbs who lived (lived as many have not been able to come back) in the republic of Croatia prior to 90 were citzens of the republic of Serbia - with such mentality you would probably be suggesting that Serbia has every right to now do the same in Kosovo & Metohija with the ethnic-Albanians and then the Serbs could blame the Albanian leadership and US for the loss of deaths!!!

In fact Ida is completly right the conflict in Croatia started in 1990 - before any declaration of independence and I guess you have a select memory (or have an incomplete historical education) on the events. You have been very fast to post your opinion but nearly always fail to answer any of the questions that are put to you following your very narrow minded comments.

I ask again, Victor do you think a Serb life is less then a Croat?

Shocking is the only way to describe the comments I read here.

My entire family is from Krajina, and has roots to the region streching over hundreds of years. In the Second World War, when Croatian Ustasa Nazis massacred over 600 000 Serbs my family was dispesed throughtout Croatian death camps. After the war nothing changed, the feelings were still there, Croats still wanted to kill us, but Serbs forgave.

Early in 91, before the war even started , before a single JNA troop was in Croatia, Serbs were already losing their jobs, being threatned, Croats knew their time was coming again. Victor, are you Serb? Are you Croat? Have you ever lived in Krajina? Do you have family that lived there for hundreds of years? I dont think so. Have you ever had your mother and father receive death threats at night, people calling your family and telling them to get out or they would be "massacred"

You dont know anything Victor. You dont know anything about Serbs, and you dont know anything about Croats. You know what CNN tells you.

You comments are sick. Somehow Storm is justified because of what you say Serbs did at the first? Then I suppose Serbs were justified as well for what they did, because of what Croats did to them in WW2. Stupidity. A cycle that never ends. If only you knew what war and death really were, you would never say what you say. Disgusting.

«Victor, according to the Economist (back in the early 90's at the begining of the war), it was actually the Croats who coined the term ethnic cleansing and started it. » This, I do not know, but I know that during the summer of 1991, 50 000 Bosnian Muslims were killed in 43 municipalities across Bosnia.

You know what amazes objective observers like myself?Why there are still tens of thousands of Croats living in Serbia/Voivodina?It seems to me that the Serbs would have had a better outcome NOT picking a war with Croatia.SOMEBODY in Serbia should have known that with the large and rich Croatian diaspora and their well funded PR machine that it would only be a matter of time before the Croats organized themselves into a strong military machine.Serbs may have well been discriminated against in Croatia in 1990 but I do not think any of them would have been murdered or ethnically cleansed if they would have accepted Croat sovereignty considering the fact that one hundred thousand Croats were living in Serbia at the time whom the Serbs could have done the same thing to.The American military men you guys speak of were just plain old fashioned mercenaries-MONEY was their motivation not hatred of Serbs.They were paid assassins/killers and they should be held responsible but it is ironic that because of Croatia's impressive economic performance many Serbs would like to go back and live there.MONEY TALKS!!!!!!!!!!

Two problems Victor with what you wrote here. Firstly Milosevic would have accepted Croatia's independence had Tudjman not revoked the Serbs status as a nation within Croatia or had their rights been guaranteed and not been taunted by the Ustasha nostalgia. Also he was not head of any state in 1995 and the Serbs in Croatia were recognised as Citizens of that country when Croatia was recognised as independent by the EU et al.

To Victor,
Your statement has a strong stench ie justifying ethnic cleansing! If women and children are massacred it is their fault for being there, that was a really good alibi in Rwanda to etc. You obviously beong to the same global group of blind nationalists who justify the crimes of their own tribe because someone,somewhere did the same to his own. Thanks for enightening us about when it is okay to kill and maim non combatants.

«Serbs may have well been discriminated against in Croatia in 1990 but I do not think any of them would have been murdered or ethnically cleansed if they would have accepted Croat sovereignty.»

Exaactly, and I do not understand why the Serbs on this board believe that the Serbs should have been recognized In Croatia as a nation: they were simply a minority.

As to DARKO, I say only that the Serbs cannot accused the Croats for what happened in the Krajina, knowing what they had accomplished in Bosnia: over 160 000 Muslims cleansed, killed, hundreds of villages destroyed, burned in ashes.

VIKTOR:

WHO WILL ANSWER FOR THE CRIME?

A recent article tells of how Serbs in Slavonia were treated by Croats in late 1991. 70,000 left in December 1991 (and this doesn't count those that left earlier and from other places in Croatia):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani2/message/16091

www.rts.co.yu

Radio Television Serbia, Belgrade
Sunday, December 10, 2006 13:41

FIFTEEN YEARS SINCE THE EXPULSION OF SERBS FROM SLAVONIA

A memorial service for the victims was held in the church of St. Mark in
Belgrade commemorating the fifteen year anniversary of the expulsion of the
Serbs from Slavonia.

The suffering began at the end of 1991 when a column of approximately 70,000
people left their ancestral homes in western Slavonia, withdrawing by way of
Papuk, Psunj and Bilogora.

The Slavonian Heritage Association in Serbia says that to this day the exact
number of people who lost their lives and where they are buried is not
known.

According to the data of the Slavonian Heritage Association in Serbia,
almost 200 villages were destroyed, torched, looted and blown up.

Representatives of the Association say that houses on the territory of
Slavonia have only been symbolically restored but the people who returned
live in dire hardship for lack of jobs and agricultural tools for farming
the land.

Ida, we all know that Croats do not want to live with Serbs; and the 70 000 Serbs who left knew this also. And I say they took the best decision. If I could not live with my neighbours, I would do the same.

“SOMEBODY in Serbia should have known that with the large and rich Croatian diaspora and their well funded PR machine that it would only be a matter of time before the Croats organized themselves into a strong military machine.Serbs may have well been discriminated against in Croatia in 1990 but I do not think any of them would have been murdered or ethnically cleansed if they would have accepted Croat sovereignty”

I agree that Croatia had the edge going in and that they are far more Western. I also agree that all the violence and bloodshed was a real waste for everyone. I have family in Krajina, and unfortunately I think it would have been very hard for many of them not to be overly emotional about the situation. Keep in mind that in the early 90’s many people who survived the Death Camps of WWII were still alive. So when Croatia started going nationalistic and started using Ustashe symbols again, it was simply impossible not to react in an emotional manner. Imagine if the Jews still lived in Germany and a bunch of Neo-Nazi’s came to power, I imagine they were react in a similar way in which the Serbs did, probably far worse considering their use of overwhelming force in response to simple things like Palestinian children throwing rocks at tanks.

The absolutely amazing thing to me is simply the fact that the Serbs of Croatia actually tried to live in peace with the Croatia’s after WWII. We tried until Croatia got independence again and the Ustashe came out of the woodwork. I do not approve in any way the crimes committed by the Serbs in Croatia, however, I understand their fear and emotions. They honestly believed they were facing another genocide. If you read the writings of Tudjman (I have) you’ll understand the fear the Serbian population had living under him. For sure there were Croatians who wanted to finish what was started in WWII. Whether the violent nationalistic elements of the Croatian population could have been kept in check had the Serbian people acted in a different manner is up to conjecture. I do believe it might have been possible to avoid all this had the evil virus of violent Nationalism not infected both Serbs and Croats.

Now according to Victor’s twisted logic, an eye for an eye mentality, the Serbs of Krajina would have been perfectly justified in getting independence after WWII. A lot of people make comments like Serbia “lost” its right to territory, deserved what they got, and no one should ever be forced to live under the Serbian boot again.

To those like Victor who hold this kind of Balkan mentality that perpetuates the cycle of violence, I would like to point out again, that after the terrible crimes committed against Serbs in WWII, we tried to live in peace with those that committed such crimes against us, we accepted the rule of a Croatian leader and we tried to live as brothers. I do not see the other players in the Balkans making the kinds of moves towards reconciliation that the Serbs did after WWII.

Think of it this way Victor. Serbs should have had the right not to live under the Croatians after what they did in WWII, we tried hard for 40 or 50 years, and when the Croatians decided that they liked the Ustasha flag, currency, and former leaders, we decided to opt for Independence and the Right to Self Determination, something which by your twisted logic we had a “right” to do. Or did Serbs somehow lose that “right” because we actually tried to live in peace with our Croatian brothers for 40 years?

Now using Victor’s twisted logic again, we could then say, well the Croatians had the right to committed genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Serbs for what they did before WWII, and so on and so on and so on. Hence the cycle of violence continues.

Violence is NEVER justified, and there’s always some lame excuse for committing it. Once you start to justify the use of violence and ethnic cleansing on past crimes, then it merely serves to continue the cycle.

So its better to punish those on the Serb side who committed the actual crimes, and to also punish those Croatians that committed crimes. Violence in response to violence is not the way to solve the problems in the Balkans. Its only more of the same that the region has suffered so terribly from. Punishing the entire Serbian population of Croatia who the crimes of a few Nationalists who played on the very real fears of the Serbian population is not only unjust, but its criminal.

We need to look forward, and to try to remember, that Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, and Kosovars have far more in common with each other then they do with the rest of the world. I like to believe that someday, maybe in a united Europe, that we will all come to believe this. In the US where I live, I can assure you that we all get along here for the most part and we share so much in a common heritage. There are many Bosniak and Croatians living in the area in which I reside, and I go to their café’s and restaurants and it reminds me much of our common home. Yugoslavia under Tito was a true golden age for all those involved, it’s a shame that we forgot how strong we can be when we work together.

to princip, blad ,jovan ,ida

just a quick recap if you read what Miteg90 wrote, its very similar to what i remeber growing up in Kosova since the 90's regime, oh i must add, we also got kicked out of our school's for beeing albanian and were made to study in peoples homes and in apalling circumstances, and this carried on and followed by violence from the serbs Mup and paramilitary..
now this is real and dont have to do research or listen to my leaderships, as most of you would say, its what i and another 2milion people of the reagion has been through..
im not trying to prove anything or convince you with all this but its real and i want you as serbs to understand that we have been treated as 3rd class since i can remeber my self(i mean up to till 99) ,now that we are free i can see the light at the end of the tunnel and life has been easyer for everyone, and if you think we are treating serbs wrongly now well i would only say try and engage with Kosovars and dont fall into the trap of orders comming from belgrade, cause they are only showing weakness and not prosperity!!

to princip, blad ,jovan ,ida

just a quick recap if you read what Miteg90 wrote, its very similar to what i remeber growing up in Kosova since the 90's regime, oh i must add, we also got kicked out of our school's for beeing albanian and were made to study in peoples homes and in apalling circumstances, and this carried on and followed by violence from the serbs Mup and paramilitary..
now this is real and dont have to do research or listen to my leaderships, as most of you would say, its what i and another 2milion people of the reagion has been through..
im not trying to prove anything or convince you with all this but its real and i want you as serbs to understand that we have been treated as 3rd class since i can remeber my self(i mean up to till 99) ,now that we are free i can see the light at the end of the tunnel and life has been easyer for everyone, and if you think we are treating serbs wrongly now well i would only say try and engage with Kosovars and dont fall into the trap of orders comming from belgrade, cause they are only showing weakness and not prosperity!!

I'm not sure why the defense team is trying to delay the trial? After all, the Hague will release all 3 after being found guilty as they did with the murderous Naser Oric. They would do well to remember that only Serbs get found guilty followed by a disproportionately heavy custodial sentence.

anthony, which is precisely why they will never get mladic or karadzic. they can choke on their court.

Oh please. why dont u do a little research about all the hague cases and find out truthfully if its ONLY serbs. In fact, let me help you...the UN website will give you all the info u need.

Daniel it takes no intelligence to see that the majority of trials at the Hague have been conducted against Serbs. If you look at what Oric did with his Muslim militia and then take into account the trial and eventual sentence handed out to Oric then the only conclusion a sane and intelligent person could possibly come to is that the court is politicised and thus un-impartial... vis-a-vis illegal.

The ridiculous length of sentence handed out to Plavsic for example. Was she in charge of a murderous bunch of rapists who butchered 3500 Serbs prior to the 'revenge' killing at Srebrenica? No she wasn't but her sentence was of 'Oric' proportions so to speak.

And why would i consult the UN on anything? It is a puppet organisation which is as impotent as an old mans loins! It has done nothing to address Serbian victims and grievances so why would i treat its media spun website as a paragan of truth? Refering me to it shows that you are just a thoughtless individual who relies on spoon fed statistics to support weak theory.

The Serbs accused the Croats of murder, ethnic cleansing, and they were the first one to start in 1992. Entire villages were cleansed of all Croats in order to create Greater Serbia. What did the Serbs expect? When the Croats finally manage to organize themselves with the aid of the American, they applied the same medecine. I don't say it is right but I can understand. You cannot make an omelet without breaking the eggs.

So victor if you accept that the croats were just as evil in 1995 could you enlighten us on why Tudjman et al was not immediatly indited? Morover, you would also imply that the judgement for Oric should have been and equally when it comes for Gotovina et al should be just as fair and equal to the long terms met out on the Serbs convicted thus far? Or do you think a Serb life is less then a Croat? Would be interesting to read coments to such a question form both Daniel & Victor.

"The Serbs accused the Croats of murder, ethnic cleansing, and they were the first one to start in 1992."

No Victor, you are ignorant. The Croatian war started in 1991, not 1992. And the Croats such as Tomislav Mercep and Miro Bajramovic were torturing and killing civilian Serbs in 1991.

You realy need to brush up on your research and get the dates of when the fighting/skirmishes and war started.

"The indictment alleges that more than 150 civilians, ethnic Serbs, were killed in the Krajina region while tens of thousands of them were expelled to Serbia and Bosnia Herzegovina"

More like hundreds of thousands were displaced. Funny how the numbers are reduced when it comes to Serbs who were abused, but the numbers are always increased when it comes to victims of Serbs.

Victor, according to the Economist (back in the early 90's at the begining of the war), it was actually the Croats who coined the term ethnic cleansing and started it.

Tudjman and Milosevic were BOTH criminals of equal horror. The Croats had much better PR, read some of the comments their PR company made. Its very interesting.

until americans and croats are brought to answer for operation storm... there will be no mladic and no karadzic. serbia has made this very clear. nomore bannana courts. there is very little that europe, america or anyone else can do about it. if it even came down to handing them over... BG would first choose to liquidate. don't be naive.

Ida, don't be disrespectful, please. You know well that if Milosevic would have accepted the independance of Croatia, nothing of this would have happened. And you also know that what the Serbs have accomplished in Croatia, especially in Vukovar, with the killing of 300 patients from an hospital, is horrific.

As for Operation Oluja, I think that Croatia had the rigt to fight by all means the Serb rebels who had divided their country. Too bad that Milosevic did not evacuate his citizens before the arrival of the Croat Army. He is responsible for the death of the civilians who were killed.

viktor, who shall answer for the ethnic cleansing of of 400,000 people from croatia?

You are forgetting that Tudjman and his government wanted to remove the Croatian Serb population and were making way for this before the war.

The Serbs fought for their lives against a government which wanted to kill off the Serbs.

The independence was hasty with no guarantees or protection of Serb rights.

There were mass firings of all ethnic Serbs, threats, murders, bombs at their restaurants and cafes.

There was a threatening, racist atmosphere for a few years before the war.

The Serbs couldn't agree to an "independence" which meant their people would be completely ethnically cleansed or given 3rd class status and pressured out by being cut from jobs and having no rights in the courts and so on.

You also apparently have no problems with the murder of elderly civilian Serbs during Oluja. Many of the Serbs who stayed behind - were too old or sick to move out quick - were killed, sometimes by beheading.

Also, a few months before Operation Storm the Croats did another on a smaller scale - it was a "dress rehearsal" for Operation Storm - called Operation Flash.

They also killed Serb civilians in 1993 in the Medak pocket.

This is a report on what the Canadian soldiers witnessed:

http://www.cbc.ca/national/videofeatures/

Isn't it curious how the article makes no mention that Gotovina is to be represented by a Pentagon defence lawyer?

Now why would the americans be interested in supporting a war criminal?

Could it be that the US, who armed, trained and organised croatian forces (let us not forget the donation of much of east Germany's military materiel) legally can be held to account for croatian war crimes as you can be prosecuted for not stopping war crimes if you are in a position to do so?

MPRI, one of the 'unofficial' pentagon companies staffed by 'ex' generals etc. was closely tied to the croatian armed forces, is a solid link. Secondly, the US Navy flew coordinated air-strikes against bosnian serb radar sites as Operation Oluja.

That's more that enough to indict the United States for war crimes and to be hauled in front of the ICTY. But it won't happen, will it?

There is a reason the ICTY is an 'ad-hoc' tribunal and not an official UN tribunal, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Victor,

please don't be so ignorant that you now state that all Serbs who lived (lived as many have not been able to come back) in the republic of Croatia prior to 90 were citzens of the republic of Serbia - with such mentality you would probably be suggesting that Serbia has every right to now do the same in Kosovo & Metohija with the ethnic-Albanians and then the Serbs could blame the Albanian leadership and US for the loss of deaths!!!

In fact Ida is completly right the conflict in Croatia started in 1990 - before any declaration of independence and I guess you have a select memory (or have an incomplete historical education) on the events. You have been very fast to post your opinion but nearly always fail to answer any of the questions that are put to you following your very narrow minded comments.

I ask again, Victor do you think a Serb life is less then a Croat?

Shocking is the only way to describe the comments I read here.

My entire family is from Krajina, and has roots to the region streching over hundreds of years. In the Second World War, when Croatian Ustasa Nazis massacred over 600 000 Serbs my family was dispesed throughtout Croatian death camps. After the war nothing changed, the feelings were still there, Croats still wanted to kill us, but Serbs forgave.

Early in 91, before the war even started , before a single JNA troop was in Croatia, Serbs were already losing their jobs, being threatned, Croats knew their time was coming again. Victor, are you Serb? Are you Croat? Have you ever lived in Krajina? Do you have family that lived there for hundreds of years? I dont think so. Have you ever had your mother and father receive death threats at night, people calling your family and telling them to get out or they would be "massacred"

You dont know anything Victor. You dont know anything about Serbs, and you dont know anything about Croats. You know what CNN tells you.

You comments are sick. Somehow Storm is justified because of what you say Serbs did at the first? Then I suppose Serbs were justified as well for what they did, because of what Croats did to them in WW2. Stupidity. A cycle that never ends. If only you knew what war and death really were, you would never say what you say. Disgusting.

«Victor, according to the Economist (back in the early 90's at the begining of the war), it was actually the Croats who coined the term ethnic cleansing and started it. » This, I do not know, but I know that during the summer of 1991, 50 000 Bosnian Muslims were killed in 43 municipalities across Bosnia.

You know what amazes objective observers like myself?Why there are still tens of thousands of Croats living in Serbia/Voivodina?It seems to me that the Serbs would have had a better outcome NOT picking a war with Croatia.SOMEBODY in Serbia should have known that with the large and rich Croatian diaspora and their well funded PR machine that it would only be a matter of time before the Croats organized themselves into a strong military machine.Serbs may have well been discriminated against in Croatia in 1990 but I do not think any of them would have been murdered or ethnically cleansed if they would have accepted Croat sovereignty considering the fact that one hundred thousand Croats were living in Serbia at the time whom the Serbs could have done the same thing to.The American military men you guys speak of were just plain old fashioned mercenaries-MONEY was their motivation not hatred of Serbs.They were paid assassins/killers and they should be held responsible but it is ironic that because of Croatia's impressive economic performance many Serbs would like to go back and live there.MONEY TALKS!!!!!!!!!!

Two problems Victor with what you wrote here. Firstly Milosevic would have accepted Croatia's independence had Tudjman not revoked the Serbs status as a nation within Croatia or had their rights been guaranteed and not been taunted by the Ustasha nostalgia. Also he was not head of any state in 1995 and the Serbs in Croatia were recognised as Citizens of that country when Croatia was recognised as independent by the EU et al.

To Victor,
Your statement has a strong stench ie justifying ethnic cleansing! If women and children are massacred it is their fault for being there, that was a really good alibi in Rwanda to etc. You obviously beong to the same global group of blind nationalists who justify the crimes of their own tribe because someone,somewhere did the same to his own. Thanks for enightening us about when it is okay to kill and maim non combatants.

«Serbs may have well been discriminated against in Croatia in 1990 but I do not think any of them would have been murdered or ethnically cleansed if they would have accepted Croat sovereignty.»

Exaactly, and I do not understand why the Serbs on this board believe that the Serbs should have been recognized In Croatia as a nation: they were simply a minority.

As to DARKO, I say only that the Serbs cannot accused the Croats for what happened in the Krajina, knowing what they had accomplished in Bosnia: over 160 000 Muslims cleansed, killed, hundreds of villages destroyed, burned in ashes.

VIKTOR:

WHO WILL ANSWER FOR THE CRIME?

A recent article tells of how Serbs in Slavonia were treated by Croats in late 1991. 70,000 left in December 1991 (and this doesn't count those that left earlier and from other places in Croatia):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani2/message/16091

www.rts.co.yu

Radio Television Serbia, Belgrade
Sunday, December 10, 2006 13:41

FIFTEEN YEARS SINCE THE EXPULSION OF SERBS FROM SLAVONIA

A memorial service for the victims was held in the church of St. Mark in
Belgrade commemorating the fifteen year anniversary of the expulsion of the
Serbs from Slavonia.

The suffering began at the end of 1991 when a column of approximately 70,000
people left their ancestral homes in western Slavonia, withdrawing by way of
Papuk, Psunj and Bilogora.

The Slavonian Heritage Association in Serbia says that to this day the exact
number of people who lost their lives and where they are buried is not
known.

According to the data of the Slavonian Heritage Association in Serbia,
almost 200 villages were destroyed, torched, looted and blown up.

Representatives of the Association say that houses on the territory of
Slavonia have only been symbolically restored but the people who returned
live in dire hardship for lack of jobs and agricultural tools for farming
the land.

Ida, we all know that Croats do not want to live with Serbs; and the 70 000 Serbs who left knew this also. And I say they took the best decision. If I could not live with my neighbours, I would do the same.

“SOMEBODY in Serbia should have known that with the large and rich Croatian diaspora and their well funded PR machine that it would only be a matter of time before the Croats organized themselves into a strong military machine.Serbs may have well been discriminated against in Croatia in 1990 but I do not think any of them would have been murdered or ethnically cleansed if they would have accepted Croat sovereignty”

I agree that Croatia had the edge going in and that they are far more Western. I also agree that all the violence and bloodshed was a real waste for everyone. I have family in Krajina, and unfortunately I think it would have been very hard for many of them not to be overly emotional about the situation. Keep in mind that in the early 90’s many people who survived the Death Camps of WWII were still alive. So when Croatia started going nationalistic and started using Ustashe symbols again, it was simply impossible not to react in an emotional manner. Imagine if the Jews still lived in Germany and a bunch of Neo-Nazi’s came to power, I imagine they were react in a similar way in which the Serbs did, probably far worse considering their use of overwhelming force in response to simple things like Palestinian children throwing rocks at tanks.

The absolutely amazing thing to me is simply the fact that the Serbs of Croatia actually tried to live in peace with the Croatia’s after WWII. We tried until Croatia got independence again and the Ustashe came out of the woodwork. I do not approve in any way the crimes committed by the Serbs in Croatia, however, I understand their fear and emotions. They honestly believed they were facing another genocide. If you read the writings of Tudjman (I have) you’ll understand the fear the Serbian population had living under him. For sure there were Croatians who wanted to finish what was started in WWII. Whether the violent nationalistic elements of the Croatian population could have been kept in check had the Serbian people acted in a different manner is up to conjecture. I do believe it might have been possible to avoid all this had the evil virus of violent Nationalism not infected both Serbs and Croats.

Now according to Victor’s twisted logic, an eye for an eye mentality, the Serbs of Krajina would have been perfectly justified in getting independence after WWII. A lot of people make comments like Serbia “lost” its right to territory, deserved what they got, and no one should ever be forced to live under the Serbian boot again.

To those like Victor who hold this kind of Balkan mentality that perpetuates the cycle of violence, I would like to point out again, that after the terrible crimes committed against Serbs in WWII, we tried to live in peace with those that committed such crimes against us, we accepted the rule of a Croatian leader and we tried to live as brothers. I do not see the other players in the Balkans making the kinds of moves towards reconciliation that the Serbs did after WWII.

Think of it this way Victor. Serbs should have had the right not to live under the Croatians after what they did in WWII, we tried hard for 40 or 50 years, and when the Croatians decided that they liked the Ustasha flag, currency, and former leaders, we decided to opt for Independence and the Right to Self Determination, something which by your twisted logic we had a “right” to do. Or did Serbs somehow lose that “right” because we actually tried to live in peace with our Croatian brothers for 40 years?

Now using Victor’s twisted logic again, we could then say, well the Croatians had the right to committed genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Serbs for what they did before WWII, and so on and so on and so on. Hence the cycle of violence continues.

Violence is NEVER justified, and there’s always some lame excuse for committing it. Once you start to justify the use of violence and ethnic cleansing on past crimes, then it merely serves to continue the cycle.

So its better to punish those on the Serb side who committed the actual crimes, and to also punish those Croatians that committed crimes. Violence in response to violence is not the way to solve the problems in the Balkans. Its only more of the same that the region has suffered so terribly from. Punishing the entire Serbian population of Croatia who the crimes of a few Nationalists who played on the very real fears of the Serbian population is not only unjust, but its criminal.

We need to look forward, and to try to remember, that Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, and Kosovars have far more in common with each other then they do with the rest of the world. I like to believe that someday, maybe in a united Europe, that we will all come to believe this. In the US where I live, I can assure you that we all get along here for the most part and we share so much in a common heritage. There are many Bosniak and Croatians living in the area in which I reside, and I go to their café’s and restaurants and it reminds me much of our common home. Yugoslavia under Tito was a true golden age for all those involved, it’s a shame that we forgot how strong we can be when we work together.

to princip, blad ,jovan ,ida

just a quick recap if you read what Miteg90 wrote, its very similar to what i remeber growing up in Kosova since the 90's regime, oh i must add, we also got kicked out of our school's for beeing albanian and were made to study in peoples homes and in apalling circumstances, and this carried on and followed by violence from the serbs Mup and paramilitary..
now this is real and dont have to do research or listen to my leaderships, as most of you would say, its what i and another 2milion people of the reagion has been through..
im not trying to prove anything or convince you with all this but its real and i want you as serbs to understand that we have been treated as 3rd class since i can remeber my self(i mean up to till 99) ,now that we are free i can see the light at the end of the tunnel and life has been easyer for everyone, and if you think we are treating serbs wrongly now well i would only say try and engage with Kosovars and dont fall into the trap of orders comming from belgrade, cause they are only showing weakness and not prosperity!!

to princip, blad ,jovan ,ida

just a quick recap if you read what Miteg90 wrote, its very similar to what i remeber growing up in Kosova since the 90's regime, oh i must add, we also got kicked out of our school's for beeing albanian and were made to study in peoples homes and in apalling circumstances, and this carried on and followed by violence from the serbs Mup and paramilitary..
now this is real and dont have to do research or listen to my leaderships, as most of you would say, its what i and another 2milion people of the reagion has been through..
im not trying to prove anything or convince you with all this but its real and i want you as serbs to understand that we have been treated as 3rd class since i can remeber my self(i mean up to till 99) ,now that we are free i can see the light at the end of the tunnel and life has been easyer for everyone, and if you think we are treating serbs wrongly now well i would only say try and engage with Kosovars and dont fall into the trap of orders comming from belgrade, cause they are only showing weakness and not prosperity!!