EC rebuts Le Monde article

The EU seems to be a dysfunctional union where members cannot even agree on a basic thing like constitutional amendment. I don't see how Belgrade Pristina can benefit by joining this unwieldy union. Or how the EU itself can benefit by enlarging even further, as it is the EU cannot even reach consensus among all its present members on issues.

So what the EU is basically saying is, if you want to join the EU, we get to decide the future of Kosovo

Jeju,

"if you want to join the EU, we get to decide the future of Kosovo"

- well given that the EU cannot accept anyone under it's current constitutions it seems like a but of a empty bluff. A simple response from the Serbian leadership to the EU could be - In which case Serbia can put of the decision on Kosovo until there is a difinitive date on joining - what do you see as Serbia's realistict time for entry - 2020 maybe? Do you think you can wait that long for a solution?

That is why I will reiterate negotiations are the key so get on with it and look at your leadership and ensure they can properly negotiate a future that is a win-win for all.

princip you are absolutely right.

no one in serbia is talking that much about eu-membership, like the eu aperatchiks in brussels, but they should be the one to know that no one will enter eu untill they clean their own house (constitution).

and on the day when the first eu-investment in serbia is resocialized and taken away, they will sing another song.

we should see it with a smile and slightly positive, the "long gone" kosovo can only get indiependent with serbias ok (in some southern parts of serbia this is really "hot news") & read the interpretation of us-ambasador polt, which is the second big sign of an realistic american approch to the southserbian problem (no eu for serbia AND kosovo, to put up the pressure on the albanians for the upcoming negotiations) and actually a turnaround in us policy (the first was when wiesner was in pristina and swearing to god that there won´t be delays and 1 hour later he negotiated the delay in belgrade).

i would call it the "G4" szenario (g4 was the us-aproved serb-entity within croatia, when the serbs said no, the us gave green light for "oluja"), the us is playing theatre for the albanians (we tried everything), then they will get the autonomy offer, and if they say no, ther´s a police-operation to follow.

the times are changing, so is the albanian situation. from useful idiot against milosevic to the weakest part of a regional problem.

they show their weakness: "relinquish kosovo or you lose the eu"

this is preposterous. serbia already geographically belongs to europe and for a functioning european balkans... they need serbia.

this is like a story you tell your to kids to scare them into behaving properly.

it's a bluff. they have no power.

I am not sure that UE feel the need of embarking Serbia even if, in my opinion, it should be better for all if Serbia would belong to the western civilization in a broad sense.
What is sure is that Serbia needs EU.

Is aronik how comments coming from itelectual peole are twisted. I am glad that the spokespearson for Olli has rebuffed the coments of La mond. As far as Princip, Blag, Raso and some others, they disrespect anybody that is not in favor of Serbia and/or does not think the way they do.
Haven't you guys notice that I am not posting any comments for some time.
I will post my comments after January 26, 2007.

"relinquish kosovo or you lose the eu"

Even if the order is a bluff (which is highly unlikely) the consequences are real.

The EU will never accept Serbia if Serbia keeps Kosovo. The EU will not favor having a destabilized country in the union.

Serbia will be a destabilized country because it is impossible for the Kosovo Albanians to accept Serbia as sovreign, in whatever shape, way or form.

Therefore:

Keeping Kosovo:

- No EU and Isolation

Independent Kosovo

- We both get into the EU
- We both prosper
- Institutional protection from local and EU institutions for the Serbian monateries and religious sites.
- Economic cooperation. Both Serbia and Kosovo have energy generation potential by cooperation we can become a major exporter.
- etc etc

nick:

unilateral indep = messy indep (partition, prolonged legal challenge, economic embargo, sustained serb belligerance)

your drunken drive to independence will have consequences. there are penalties for breaking the law.

agim: the only disrespect is coming from threatening american or british hitmen masquearding as politicians.

all they do is threaten. they do this b/c they are running out of options. they know that unilateral indep is the only road before them... and they know that unilateral indep = messy indep

a breakedown of the elements presented by you, according to my prespective:

1. Partition

Unnaceptable to both the K Albanians and the international community. One of the basic principles (red lines) of the Contact Group. Forcibly partitioning Kosovo will only serve to drive Serbia away from the EU.

2. Prolonged Legal Challange:

We can live with it. Might be funn actualy.

3. Economic Embargo:

Who's economic embargo? If you are refering to Serbia, than we can live with that too.

You need us (economically) more than we need you. Kosovo has very little to export and a whole lot to import. Serbia on the other hand benefits greatly from exporting to 2 million Albanians. If you dont want to sell us your goods FINE, we will buy them elswere. (2 days after the self-determination campaign started promoting the idea of boycoting serbian goods, Serbian companies begun complaining loudly to UNMIK)

Kosovo has a trade channel with FYROM, Albania, Montenegro. Although it is true that a highly unlikely Serbian embargo would harm Kosovo's economy, the damage is far smaller that you would like to believe.

We would however need Serbia's energy transmission network when we start producing enough energy to export. But then again by the time that happens we can build a new trasmission system jointly with FYROM, Montenegro and Albania.

4 Sustanined Serb Belligerence

Would only result in alienating Serbia from the internation community and the EU. The potential harm to a Kosovo with internation borders is minimal.

- a breakdown of the elements presented by you, according to my prespective:

1. Partition. unilateral recognition is ALSO outside the bounds of the contact group. therefore, defacto partition is likely as the serbs leave south kosovo formitrovica. neither will it be challenged b/c of the humantiartian crisis it would produce. lack of recognition by world players is not the objective. the objective is to create a fait accompli. expect deep funding from serbia (as grece did for cyprus)... thereby creating a tale of two cities. also expect prolonged protests and a very vocal minority.


2. Prolonged Legal Challange. you cannot live with it b/c it impeded private monies in the form of foreign direct investment. the threat of legal cost is an impediment to investment. you should take this particularly seriously. furthermore, as in the former yugoslavia... there are assets which need to be properly accounted for. nothing is free.


3. Economic Embargo: foreign direct investment is tied to the ability to export. blockade or purposely high tariff's of rail/ road/ river present an impediment to export. the proposed road to durres is 20 yrs away and only adds cost and time. a quick look at a road map shows that 80 years of infrastructure projects means K is geographically reliant upon S (an unfortunate fact for pristina). as for the market of 2M.... yes, nice to have, but less and less consequential to an economically ascendent serbia. kosovo trade will consist of europe's poorest country (kosovo) trading with the second poorest (macedonia) and the third poorest (albania) and the fourth poorest (montenegro). hardly a bright future. finally, you hit the nail right on the head when you said kosovo has nothing to export and a whole lot to import. think thru the ramifications of your own comments and see that you are economically NOT VIABLE. your economic potential is far too reliant upon serbia and you should not create a belligerance you acannot live with. no one will bomb serbia to recognize you, trade with you, or not blocakade you. illegal actions have consequences (illegal means takign away 15% of a sovereign countrie's territory against the will of that country).


4. Sustanined Serb Belligerence. there are covert ways to be belligerant... nor will it harm serbia's relations. you think too highly of yourself. there is money to be made in serbia. your future effect is marginal.

Nick,

your 4 points are flawed as the Serb position is about retaining all of its Terrirory. The only situation of partition wil be as a result of unilateral declaration by ethnic-Albanian leadership. The fact that the northern portion is populated by Serbs seems to be a point you fail to notice. Serbia will deny the existance of a 2nd Albanian state on it's territory. This will cause further complications and lead to the other 3 points you talk of but with a different commentary. However, the UN will pull out and the EU won't be able to step in effectivly. NATO will end up acting as a buffer. This will last for many years and will only cause greater hardship and economic recession for the Southern element of Kosovo & Metohija. If you want an example you can see what has happened to the unrecognised portion of Northern Cyprus when Turkey sent in troops back in 1974. The Southern element of Cyprus prospered but the North has gone backwards. This is the worst case scenario for ethnic-Albaninas but you don't or won't see it coming. Not a good future is it!

That is why I reiterate look at your leadership and ensure you can realise that win-win is possible but that negotiations mean Independence is a non-starter and like Blair said recently "conform to it" and realise that you stop thinking that you can create a 2nd Albania on Serbian territory.

Wow, are they still talking about the EU? Amazing…

Its obvious now that any new members are going to have second class status without the right to live and work in other areas of Europe. I'm sure they will be changing the voting rights and limit the influence the newer poorer countries have as well. It is not the same EU it once was, now it’s a collection of the Have's and Have Not's.

What the EU will bring is a lot of foreign companies that are in a much better position to take over economically in Serbia.

The EU will not be a coalition of equal states with the same rights as the others. The EU does not hold the promise that it had 10 years ago. Even if the EU were to allow Serbia to join immediately, it would still be decades before Serbia had the same rights as those countries that joined early.

If someone has a valid argument why Serbia needs the EU I'd like to hear it.

Win-win let the message be loud and clear.

I suggest the ethnic-Albanian leadership Ceku & Sediju brush up on their negotiation skills ready for the talks that will inevitably take place starting in late March/ early April once a new Serbian (pro democratic) govt is formed. Of course by then Athisarri will have presented his "Draft" and this will be a good starting point. Roll on 2007 and let the talks begin.

It is a false scenario to question whether the EU NEEDS Serbia or whether Serbia NEEDS the EU. Economically it is advantageous to be a member of such a rich economic bloc.THAT is the key point.Whether the EU EVER passes any kind of constitution is IRRELEVANT.The economic benefits trump over any other considerations.As an economist I do not care if the EU EVER joins closer politically into a union such as the 50 United States of America.The ECONOMIC benefits are what will raise the living standards for all the people of the Balkans.Having said this,I have always maintained that the linking of economic with political considerations should NOT be done but do not look at the EU as one monolithic entity threatening Serbia into submission.It ultimately will be up to the Serbs to decide for themselves what is in their own interests but I implore them to use vision in crafting a better future for themselves.NO country has left the EU after joining because it was worse off economically after it joined than before.END OF STORY.

Is Nick reading another article? Instead of reading: "relinquish kosovo or you lose the eu", this article said that the EU position was "principles and conditions in the stabilization and association process are the same for all EU aspirant countries, including Serbia, and thus bear no relation to Kosovo and its fate."

And since when does any person here speak for the EU? It is presumptuous to say that the EU will not accept Serbia for it's choice to keep it's territorial intergrity intact, especially when Nick is a Kosovar Albanian, not an EU spokesperson. Just because you use the Euro for your currency doesn't make you an EU citizen.

Serbia should tell the EU to take a flying jump off a high cliff. Who needs an organization that offers membership under such deplorable terms. What other country has been asked to give up 15% of its territory in exchange for membership? It's appalling. Serbia will do JUST FINE, perhaps even better, without the EU.

Well Nick if you don't think Kosovo does not need Serbian goods then why does so much stuff from Serbia end up in small markets in Kosovo because they are cheap. If you purchase goods from macedonia, albania and other areas you have to pay taxes and duties on imported goods. Nick why do so many people smuggle in Cigareets, coffee and other goods? because they don't want to pay the macedoinia duties nor Kosovo duties to bring in goods. Please don't say it does not happen because i have seen it and been on raids where they stop the smugglers in mountainous regions where the smugglers would never think KFOR is there yes alot of stuff finds it way to kosovo but if you choose to boycott Serbian goods then fine it will only increase the price of goods in kosovo and make it harder on the poor people i guess nick like other leaders in kosovo don't care about the people only about how good of a vehcile they can drive. Ask Daci about his 50,000 euro car. All of you guys only think of how to get rid of Serbian influence in kosovo and not what it could do to the poor people who live there both Serb and albanian. No one worries about that only think about the past and not the future. There is two classes in Kosovo. high class and poor there is no middle class because the only way you can get ahead is if you pay someone for a job or you are someone relative that does not have the skill for a job but you have to hire him because he is the bosse's son or daughter and they have no skills. I feel sorry for kosovo, yes i am sure there will be comments like J.Ham is a serb and he hates albanians and as i said before i am not Serb, i don't hate albanians and don't use the normal replies. if you listen to other people instead of dummies who think they know everything and promise you the world that is how you get bit in the A*S.

J. ham. Stop your comments are foul.

You write Albania, Albanian and Albanians with small letter (albania, albanian and albanains) while when it comes to Serbia and Serbs you use capital letter. This shows your antagonism towards Albanians and that’s why you are saying bad things about them. Instead of supporting tolerance you are telling Albanians and Serbs that they should hate each other.

Blag,

1. I really dont think unilateral independence was mentioned by the Contact Group at all. Dont make stuff up.

2. Regarding legal challanges. You must understand that 'even if' we have to obtain unilateral independence, then companies from countries that do recodnize us (which is Everybody except Russia, China and certain other countries) will have the legal guarantees necesary to make those investments. Serbia may cause legal problems, but hey, almost every transitioning country has minor legal problems right? This is nt the socialist system blag, where the threat of law suits was enough to get what you want.. my response to any Serbian claims would me "SO, SUE ME"

3. YES, we do not have enough exports and we import most of our goods. But, this was the case even during Yugoslav times. Tito's economic policies towards Kosovo were aimed at having Kosovo produce mainly raw materials which were then shiped to the the Yugo Countries for processing. We imported consumer goods then and we will import them again, so what difference does it make?

We dont needs Serbia as a trading route. We are a small country and the channels with Fyrom and Albania will be sufficently adequate (they are working as we speak).

Even at this moment, most consumer goods in Kosovo are from FYROM, Albania, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro. You cant do anything about cuting the trading channel with Fyrom and Albania, and if you cut the channel with Slovenia and Croatia then they will simply start exporting to Kosovo through Montenegro.

Now, i am not a fool, i know that having Serbia as a potential trading partner would benefit both us and you greatly. What i am trying to say is that a future Serbian embargo would have little effect in Kosovo and would damage the Serbian economy more than it would damage us.

4. You can be as belligerant as your heart wishes, we simply dont care.

-----------------------

J.Ham

1. Goods are smuggled everywere in the balkans. Most of the goods you mentioned are smuggled in and from Serbia en mase. Dont pretend to be the Virgin Smuggle-Free Economy of the Ballkans, in fact you are one of the worst countries in the balkans in regards to smuggling.

2. Daci's car was in fact worth around 200,000 Euro. And it was one of the many reasons he was discharged. That alone shows you the maturing charater of Kosovo politics.

3. Your assesment of the difference gab betwen poor and rich in Kosovo is something i wont even get into since it seems you really dont know anything about the matter.

Nick,

what about Kosovo joining with Albania?

Blag and any other Serb:
If Seslej's party, Radical Serb Party wins the election will you support them? How will this affect Serbia's chances of getting into the EU? How will a Radical win affect the decision of Kosova getting independence? Which Party do you support in the election?

Olli,

Although ethically speaking both A Albanians and K Albanians are of the same ethnicity, we have been living apart long enough to develop separate identities. Kosovars do not consider Albania to be their home and family and clan relations that binded us in the past are all but gone.

Although we have nothing but the deepest respect for Albania and A Albanians we do not wish to join Albania. Most Kosovars feel they belong only in Kosovo and nowhere else.

Except for some very very small political parties (less than 1% total votes) who promote the idea of joining with albania in a union, all of the major parties such as the LDK, PDK, AAK, ORA have countinuously stated that their goal is not and will never be to join Albania.

and the majority of Kosovars (i would say 98%) agree with that policy. Our goal is independence and nothing less.

nick, i sense your youth in your comments.

1. if kosovo attempts unilateral indep outside the SC serbia will rewciprocate with an indep move of north mitrovica.

2. legal challenge means that i won't invest b/c i will now be tied up in court. it also means that those countries who intend to cash in economically ascendent serbia better think twice.

3. is self evident. if you don't get this remedial point now you will never get it.

4. belligerance. you are reliant on serbia.y ou cannot afford the belligerance.

Nick,

When I have discussed with Kosovars flying the Albanian flags, it has come clear to me that great majority of them consider that flag as their own. And most of them didn't want to be considered different from A Albanians, telling that they share the identity.
Kosovo Albanian - or Kosovar - was Tito's invention, they said, "artifically to keep us Albanians separate from our brothers in Albania."

But what do you say about M Albanians? Do Albanians in Macedonia also have an identity of their own?

Olli,

your comment has good points reminds me of a comment some months ago that never got published but hope it is ok this time.

A-Z of Albanians
A Albanians (Aalbanian) from Albania
K Albanians (Kalbanian) from Kosovo & Metohija.
M Albanians (Malbanians) from Makedonia.
- I guess you can catch the rest - where ever next will they want a portion from I wonder if the UK would oblige - Ualbanians. I suppose the joke will be that they would like the idea of a independent Kalbania!!!

i support the democraticaly elected govt of kostunica (the man who toppled milosevic) without western support or dollars. i do not trust tadic b/c i feel he lacks backbone. and i do not support the policies/ rhetoric of the radicals. i am a proponent of g17, but not of cedomir jovanovic.

The EU seems to be a dysfunctional union where members cannot even agree on a basic thing like constitutional amendment. I don't see how Belgrade Pristina can benefit by joining this unwieldy union. Or how the EU itself can benefit by enlarging even further, as it is the EU cannot even reach consensus among all its present members on issues.

So what the EU is basically saying is, if you want to join the EU, we get to decide the future of Kosovo

Jeju,

"if you want to join the EU, we get to decide the future of Kosovo"

- well given that the EU cannot accept anyone under it's current constitutions it seems like a but of a empty bluff. A simple response from the Serbian leadership to the EU could be - In which case Serbia can put of the decision on Kosovo until there is a difinitive date on joining - what do you see as Serbia's realistict time for entry - 2020 maybe? Do you think you can wait that long for a solution?

That is why I will reiterate negotiations are the key so get on with it and look at your leadership and ensure they can properly negotiate a future that is a win-win for all.

princip you are absolutely right.

no one in serbia is talking that much about eu-membership, like the eu aperatchiks in brussels, but they should be the one to know that no one will enter eu untill they clean their own house (constitution).

and on the day when the first eu-investment in serbia is resocialized and taken away, they will sing another song.

we should see it with a smile and slightly positive, the "long gone" kosovo can only get indiependent with serbias ok (in some southern parts of serbia this is really "hot news") & read the interpretation of us-ambasador polt, which is the second big sign of an realistic american approch to the southserbian problem (no eu for serbia AND kosovo, to put up the pressure on the albanians for the upcoming negotiations) and actually a turnaround in us policy (the first was when wiesner was in pristina and swearing to god that there won´t be delays and 1 hour later he negotiated the delay in belgrade).

i would call it the "G4" szenario (g4 was the us-aproved serb-entity within croatia, when the serbs said no, the us gave green light for "oluja"), the us is playing theatre for the albanians (we tried everything), then they will get the autonomy offer, and if they say no, ther´s a police-operation to follow.

the times are changing, so is the albanian situation. from useful idiot against milosevic to the weakest part of a regional problem.

they show their weakness: "relinquish kosovo or you lose the eu"

this is preposterous. serbia already geographically belongs to europe and for a functioning european balkans... they need serbia.

this is like a story you tell your to kids to scare them into behaving properly.

it's a bluff. they have no power.

I am not sure that UE feel the need of embarking Serbia even if, in my opinion, it should be better for all if Serbia would belong to the western civilization in a broad sense.
What is sure is that Serbia needs EU.

Is aronik how comments coming from itelectual peole are twisted. I am glad that the spokespearson for Olli has rebuffed the coments of La mond. As far as Princip, Blag, Raso and some others, they disrespect anybody that is not in favor of Serbia and/or does not think the way they do.
Haven't you guys notice that I am not posting any comments for some time.
I will post my comments after January 26, 2007.

"relinquish kosovo or you lose the eu"

Even if the order is a bluff (which is highly unlikely) the consequences are real.

The EU will never accept Serbia if Serbia keeps Kosovo. The EU will not favor having a destabilized country in the union.

Serbia will be a destabilized country because it is impossible for the Kosovo Albanians to accept Serbia as sovreign, in whatever shape, way or form.

Therefore:

Keeping Kosovo:

- No EU and Isolation

Independent Kosovo

- We both get into the EU
- We both prosper
- Institutional protection from local and EU institutions for the Serbian monateries and religious sites.
- Economic cooperation. Both Serbia and Kosovo have energy generation potential by cooperation we can become a major exporter.
- etc etc

nick:

unilateral indep = messy indep (partition, prolonged legal challenge, economic embargo, sustained serb belligerance)

your drunken drive to independence will have consequences. there are penalties for breaking the law.

agim: the only disrespect is coming from threatening american or british hitmen masquearding as politicians.

all they do is threaten. they do this b/c they are running out of options. they know that unilateral indep is the only road before them... and they know that unilateral indep = messy indep

a breakedown of the elements presented by you, according to my prespective:

1. Partition

Unnaceptable to both the K Albanians and the international community. One of the basic principles (red lines) of the Contact Group. Forcibly partitioning Kosovo will only serve to drive Serbia away from the EU.

2. Prolonged Legal Challange:

We can live with it. Might be funn actualy.

3. Economic Embargo:

Who's economic embargo? If you are refering to Serbia, than we can live with that too.

You need us (economically) more than we need you. Kosovo has very little to export and a whole lot to import. Serbia on the other hand benefits greatly from exporting to 2 million Albanians. If you dont want to sell us your goods FINE, we will buy them elswere. (2 days after the self-determination campaign started promoting the idea of boycoting serbian goods, Serbian companies begun complaining loudly to UNMIK)

Kosovo has a trade channel with FYROM, Albania, Montenegro. Although it is true that a highly unlikely Serbian embargo would harm Kosovo's economy, the damage is far smaller that you would like to believe.

We would however need Serbia's energy transmission network when we start producing enough energy to export. But then again by the time that happens we can build a new trasmission system jointly with FYROM, Montenegro and Albania.

4 Sustanined Serb Belligerence

Would only result in alienating Serbia from the internation community and the EU. The potential harm to a Kosovo with internation borders is minimal.

- a breakdown of the elements presented by you, according to my prespective:

1. Partition. unilateral recognition is ALSO outside the bounds of the contact group. therefore, defacto partition is likely as the serbs leave south kosovo formitrovica. neither will it be challenged b/c of the humantiartian crisis it would produce. lack of recognition by world players is not the objective. the objective is to create a fait accompli. expect deep funding from serbia (as grece did for cyprus)... thereby creating a tale of two cities. also expect prolonged protests and a very vocal minority.


2. Prolonged Legal Challange. you cannot live with it b/c it impeded private monies in the form of foreign direct investment. the threat of legal cost is an impediment to investment. you should take this particularly seriously. furthermore, as in the former yugoslavia... there are assets which need to be properly accounted for. nothing is free.


3. Economic Embargo: foreign direct investment is tied to the ability to export. blockade or purposely high tariff's of rail/ road/ river present an impediment to export. the proposed road to durres is 20 yrs away and only adds cost and time. a quick look at a road map shows that 80 years of infrastructure projects means K is geographically reliant upon S (an unfortunate fact for pristina). as for the market of 2M.... yes, nice to have, but less and less consequential to an economically ascendent serbia. kosovo trade will consist of europe's poorest country (kosovo) trading with the second poorest (macedonia) and the third poorest (albania) and the fourth poorest (montenegro). hardly a bright future. finally, you hit the nail right on the head when you said kosovo has nothing to export and a whole lot to import. think thru the ramifications of your own comments and see that you are economically NOT VIABLE. your economic potential is far too reliant upon serbia and you should not create a belligerance you acannot live with. no one will bomb serbia to recognize you, trade with you, or not blocakade you. illegal actions have consequences (illegal means takign away 15% of a sovereign countrie's territory against the will of that country).


4. Sustanined Serb Belligerence. there are covert ways to be belligerant... nor will it harm serbia's relations. you think too highly of yourself. there is money to be made in serbia. your future effect is marginal.

Nick,

your 4 points are flawed as the Serb position is about retaining all of its Terrirory. The only situation of partition wil be as a result of unilateral declaration by ethnic-Albanian leadership. The fact that the northern portion is populated by Serbs seems to be a point you fail to notice. Serbia will deny the existance of a 2nd Albanian state on it's territory. This will cause further complications and lead to the other 3 points you talk of but with a different commentary. However, the UN will pull out and the EU won't be able to step in effectivly. NATO will end up acting as a buffer. This will last for many years and will only cause greater hardship and economic recession for the Southern element of Kosovo & Metohija. If you want an example you can see what has happened to the unrecognised portion of Northern Cyprus when Turkey sent in troops back in 1974. The Southern element of Cyprus prospered but the North has gone backwards. This is the worst case scenario for ethnic-Albaninas but you don't or won't see it coming. Not a good future is it!

That is why I reiterate look at your leadership and ensure you can realise that win-win is possible but that negotiations mean Independence is a non-starter and like Blair said recently "conform to it" and realise that you stop thinking that you can create a 2nd Albania on Serbian territory.

Wow, are they still talking about the EU? Amazing…

Its obvious now that any new members are going to have second class status without the right to live and work in other areas of Europe. I'm sure they will be changing the voting rights and limit the influence the newer poorer countries have as well. It is not the same EU it once was, now it’s a collection of the Have's and Have Not's.

What the EU will bring is a lot of foreign companies that are in a much better position to take over economically in Serbia.

The EU will not be a coalition of equal states with the same rights as the others. The EU does not hold the promise that it had 10 years ago. Even if the EU were to allow Serbia to join immediately, it would still be decades before Serbia had the same rights as those countries that joined early.

If someone has a valid argument why Serbia needs the EU I'd like to hear it.

Win-win let the message be loud and clear.

I suggest the ethnic-Albanian leadership Ceku & Sediju brush up on their negotiation skills ready for the talks that will inevitably take place starting in late March/ early April once a new Serbian (pro democratic) govt is formed. Of course by then Athisarri will have presented his "Draft" and this will be a good starting point. Roll on 2007 and let the talks begin.

It is a false scenario to question whether the EU NEEDS Serbia or whether Serbia NEEDS the EU. Economically it is advantageous to be a member of such a rich economic bloc.THAT is the key point.Whether the EU EVER passes any kind of constitution is IRRELEVANT.The economic benefits trump over any other considerations.As an economist I do not care if the EU EVER joins closer politically into a union such as the 50 United States of America.The ECONOMIC benefits are what will raise the living standards for all the people of the Balkans.Having said this,I have always maintained that the linking of economic with political considerations should NOT be done but do not look at the EU as one monolithic entity threatening Serbia into submission.It ultimately will be up to the Serbs to decide for themselves what is in their own interests but I implore them to use vision in crafting a better future for themselves.NO country has left the EU after joining because it was worse off economically after it joined than before.END OF STORY.

Is Nick reading another article? Instead of reading: "relinquish kosovo or you lose the eu", this article said that the EU position was "principles and conditions in the stabilization and association process are the same for all EU aspirant countries, including Serbia, and thus bear no relation to Kosovo and its fate."

And since when does any person here speak for the EU? It is presumptuous to say that the EU will not accept Serbia for it's choice to keep it's territorial intergrity intact, especially when Nick is a Kosovar Albanian, not an EU spokesperson. Just because you use the Euro for your currency doesn't make you an EU citizen.

Serbia should tell the EU to take a flying jump off a high cliff. Who needs an organization that offers membership under such deplorable terms. What other country has been asked to give up 15% of its territory in exchange for membership? It's appalling. Serbia will do JUST FINE, perhaps even better, without the EU.

Well Nick if you don't think Kosovo does not need Serbian goods then why does so much stuff from Serbia end up in small markets in Kosovo because they are cheap. If you purchase goods from macedonia, albania and other areas you have to pay taxes and duties on imported goods. Nick why do so many people smuggle in Cigareets, coffee and other goods? because they don't want to pay the macedoinia duties nor Kosovo duties to bring in goods. Please don't say it does not happen because i have seen it and been on raids where they stop the smugglers in mountainous regions where the smugglers would never think KFOR is there yes alot of stuff finds it way to kosovo but if you choose to boycott Serbian goods then fine it will only increase the price of goods in kosovo and make it harder on the poor people i guess nick like other leaders in kosovo don't care about the people only about how good of a vehcile they can drive. Ask Daci about his 50,000 euro car. All of you guys only think of how to get rid of Serbian influence in kosovo and not what it could do to the poor people who live there both Serb and albanian. No one worries about that only think about the past and not the future. There is two classes in Kosovo. high class and poor there is no middle class because the only way you can get ahead is if you pay someone for a job or you are someone relative that does not have the skill for a job but you have to hire him because he is the bosse's son or daughter and they have no skills. I feel sorry for kosovo, yes i am sure there will be comments like J.Ham is a serb and he hates albanians and as i said before i am not Serb, i don't hate albanians and don't use the normal replies. if you listen to other people instead of dummies who think they know everything and promise you the world that is how you get bit in the A*S.

J. ham. Stop your comments are foul.

You write Albania, Albanian and Albanians with small letter (albania, albanian and albanains) while when it comes to Serbia and Serbs you use capital letter. This shows your antagonism towards Albanians and that’s why you are saying bad things about them. Instead of supporting tolerance you are telling Albanians and Serbs that they should hate each other.

Blag,

1. I really dont think unilateral independence was mentioned by the Contact Group at all. Dont make stuff up.

2. Regarding legal challanges. You must understand that 'even if' we have to obtain unilateral independence, then companies from countries that do recodnize us (which is Everybody except Russia, China and certain other countries) will have the legal guarantees necesary to make those investments. Serbia may cause legal problems, but hey, almost every transitioning country has minor legal problems right? This is nt the socialist system blag, where the threat of law suits was enough to get what you want.. my response to any Serbian claims would me "SO, SUE ME"

3. YES, we do not have enough exports and we import most of our goods. But, this was the case even during Yugoslav times. Tito's economic policies towards Kosovo were aimed at having Kosovo produce mainly raw materials which were then shiped to the the Yugo Countries for processing. We imported consumer goods then and we will import them again, so what difference does it make?

We dont needs Serbia as a trading route. We are a small country and the channels with Fyrom and Albania will be sufficently adequate (they are working as we speak).

Even at this moment, most consumer goods in Kosovo are from FYROM, Albania, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro. You cant do anything about cuting the trading channel with Fyrom and Albania, and if you cut the channel with Slovenia and Croatia then they will simply start exporting to Kosovo through Montenegro.

Now, i am not a fool, i know that having Serbia as a potential trading partner would benefit both us and you greatly. What i am trying to say is that a future Serbian embargo would have little effect in Kosovo and would damage the Serbian economy more than it would damage us.

4. You can be as belligerant as your heart wishes, we simply dont care.

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J.Ham

1. Goods are smuggled everywere in the balkans. Most of the goods you mentioned are smuggled in and from Serbia en mase. Dont pretend to be the Virgin Smuggle-Free Economy of the Ballkans, in fact you are one of the worst countries in the balkans in regards to smuggling.

2. Daci's car was in fact worth around 200,000 Euro. And it was one of the many reasons he was discharged. That alone shows you the maturing charater of Kosovo politics.

3. Your assesment of the difference gab betwen poor and rich in Kosovo is something i wont even get into since it seems you really dont know anything about the matter.

Nick,

what about Kosovo joining with Albania?

Blag and any other Serb:
If Seslej's party, Radical Serb Party wins the election will you support them? How will this affect Serbia's chances of getting into the EU? How will a Radical win affect the decision of Kosova getting independence? Which Party do you support in the election?

Olli,

Although ethically speaking both A Albanians and K Albanians are of the same ethnicity, we have been living apart long enough to develop separate identities. Kosovars do not consider Albania to be their home and family and clan relations that binded us in the past are all but gone.

Although we have nothing but the deepest respect for Albania and A Albanians we do not wish to join Albania. Most Kosovars feel they belong only in Kosovo and nowhere else.

Except for some very very small political parties (less than 1% total votes) who promote the idea of joining with albania in a union, all of the major parties such as the LDK, PDK, AAK, ORA have countinuously stated that their goal is not and will never be to join Albania.

and the majority of Kosovars (i would say 98%) agree with that policy. Our goal is independence and nothing less.

nick, i sense your youth in your comments.

1. if kosovo attempts unilateral indep outside the SC serbia will rewciprocate with an indep move of north mitrovica.

2. legal challenge means that i won't invest b/c i will now be tied up in court. it also means that those countries who intend to cash in economically ascendent serbia better think twice.

3. is self evident. if you don't get this remedial point now you will never get it.

4. belligerance. you are reliant on serbia.y ou cannot afford the belligerance.

Nick,

When I have discussed with Kosovars flying the Albanian flags, it has come clear to me that great majority of them consider that flag as their own. And most of them didn't want to be considered different from A Albanians, telling that they share the identity.
Kosovo Albanian - or Kosovar - was Tito's invention, they said, "artifically to keep us Albanians separate from our brothers in Albania."

But what do you say about M Albanians? Do Albanians in Macedonia also have an identity of their own?

Olli,

your comment has good points reminds me of a comment some months ago that never got published but hope it is ok this time.

A-Z of Albanians
A Albanians (Aalbanian) from Albania
K Albanians (Kalbanian) from Kosovo & Metohija.
M Albanians (Malbanians) from Makedonia.
- I guess you can catch the rest - where ever next will they want a portion from I wonder if the UK would oblige - Ualbanians. I suppose the joke will be that they would like the idea of a independent Kalbania!!!

i support the democraticaly elected govt of kostunica (the man who toppled milosevic) without western support or dollars. i do not trust tadic b/c i feel he lacks backbone. and i do not support the policies/ rhetoric of the radicals. i am a proponent of g17, but not of cedomir jovanovic.