Koštunica talks to Putin

nothing new, but it seems that serbia will need its 18 F-29 and fighting-heli´s that are on remont in russia much earlier.

i hope the talk was about that/serious issues, and not about science-fiction like indiependent kosovo.

So what does this mean? Again, COMPROMISE. In my opinion, Kosovo in some symbolic way remains part of Serbia but has no direct connection to Belgrade (call it virtual independence). This assuages Belgrade's fears of territorial dismemberment, while affirming Albanian demands for self-determination. All politics are local at the level of Pristina and the smaller municipalities, with Brussels being the supervising executive power. This arrangement continues for the foreseeable future until stable political and civic intisutions are built in the region to ensure self-sustaining properity and development. This becomes finalized with a dual-track road to the EU for both Serbia and Kosovo Province. I believe this agrees with Princip's "win-win" situation, which in the end, seems the best long-term solution.

raso what are you trying to say. What are you going to do with this helicopters? Another Srebrenica? Just wondering

'Unnecessary conflicts'? Is that a threat, Mr. Kostunica?
And who said that Russia has to approve the existence of the new country?

CONFIRMATION. read it twice... especially, the words: "unless acceptable to belgrade."

that dismisses the ICG nonsense and puts the ball in pristina's court. if it chooses a unilateral declaration it will be a messy indep (legal challenge, serb belligerance, partition, blockade).

so this takes us back to compromise: an EU protectorate with enhanced, but not full sovreignty; decentralization and an organic role for belgrade.

in fact i now predict a replay of the early days of rambuillet. i think pristina will not sign anything (although this time there will be no bombing).

I am amazed by some short sighted politicians and commentators here still living in a dream world. Mr. Kostunica's campaign with Putin and some alike will ultimately lead to Unilateral declaration of Independence. If that's the case, it will be a nightmare for Serbia and tragedy for the Serbs like myself still hopping to live in Kosmet.

As unfortunate as it may seem, some of you simply do not grasp the seriousness of the problem and base your comments on patriotic sentiments.

It's true that Unilateral Declaration will not bring Albanians and us Kosmet Serbs nothing productive in terms of economical progress, and as some often say, it may become like Taiwan, or divide the world in its recognition, but... What will Kosmet Serbs gain out of all this? A one way ticket to Srpska Republica or join refuge lines together with Romas in some pathetic little towns in Serbia.

Mr. Kostunica is looking more for a glorious place in Serbian history than for truly resolving the problem in a civilized manner.

And surely, in 80 years from now, he will be known as a leader who stood to the pressure of the west and may even get a heroic boost somewhere in Serbia. But by then, he will also be known as someone whose politics emptied Kosmet out of the last Serb.

I wish to ask some of the commentators here. What will your claim on Kosmet be based on if there is only one percent of Serbs left in 10 years from now.

You can't base everything on the churches and monasteries if you have no population left. If Serb politicians continue with this approach, most of our 1000 year history, Churches and Monasteries will be nothing than EU protected ghost zones.

Analyze well my friends, and you'll see that Chedomir Jovanovic's peaceful plan of handling Kosovo problem with certain conditions is the best plan.

And those conditions should be: Return of all refuges who can prove their birth rights in Kosmet. Guaranties of rebuilding Serbian dilapidated structures, roads, schools with upcoming EU funds, A Serbian University in Pristina or Mitrovica, Allow Serbian Flag to freely fly in all Serb municipalities, pass a law to make it harder for Serbs to sell their properties, guaranties that KFOR will be there all the way until Kosmet and Serbia join EU. Albanian demands of Indipendence should become official and recognized world wide only after a certain period, or only if above mentioned contitions are implemented.

And all this, should be garanted by UN before signing of Independence.

well, if a person who uses pen name Blag would write at hello.ween@mail.ee, I would be very very appriciated

There is nothing new here. At worst, Russia will be bypassed/cajoled. All Western diplomats have pretty much said that the final solution will be a form of independence. It is understandable that Serbs, in the absence of any viable platform for achieving any other result, will hang on to words from fringe conversations for dear life. Desperation breeds exhaustion and vice versa...in the end Serbia will not have any shred of sovreignty left over Kosovo de-jure and de facto. The United States is the only superpower in the world capable of making foreign policy on the global scale, even though certain other economic wannabes try and act big. And Uncle Sam is firmly on the Albanian camp. They bombed Serbia to make that point.

Sebastian,

Russia is a VETO-holding member of the UN Security Council, which can, and will, VETO any resolution that attempts to grant independence to Kosovo. Read up on it.

Instead of demanding independence and refusing to negotiate, you should find a face saving way out of this. Like agreeing to autonomy. You won't get your way this time.

Mike, you are quite right, but I do believe that just as Blag mentions there will be some form of organic role for Belgrade. This is crucial to assuage the returnees of their security and will make for a speedier return - this is not neccessarily a parellel government but an enhancement to the local administration. I would also like to see in the negotiation talks that take place following the "Draft/Proposal" that church property is fully respected seeing as "Metohija" is literally Church land. Clearly these are things that the Serbian Leadership can put forth and it is clear to see that the negotiations themselve will be intensive and take a while to ensure all options are discussed fully.

Hopefully the ethnic-Albanian leadership can step up and lead their consituents to ensure that a solution provides the best compromise for their benefit too.

1. I think Russia is lying to Serbia; Ceku's visit proves it Putin will engage the Republic of Kosova in the future. Kosova will not become a new Bosnia, the EU-USA and more importantly the Kosovars will not let Kosova become a failed state.

TO Blag

On a recent post
Serbs claim Kosova as theirs on the bases of their churches. That is perhaps the most ridiculous claim because Serbs and religious fundamentalist of that type are known for building a church for every 5 people. To give you an example, in one city where there are only 1,000 Serbs...there are nevertheless 18 Serb churches to service them!! Serbs build as many churches as possible to service a non-existent population.

Dear Blag, or Blagoje or whichever name you prefer.Thank you for your analysis.I think you should write a book about Russia and Balkans and maybe you can sell it on ebay and all the profit you can send it to Serbia.What amazes me is your free time.Your posts are everywhere,from politics to cats and dogs.Why you just come in open and say that you hate albanians and then you can leave us alone. B92 and a lot of Serbian Citizens are there together with Europe but you still live in 80'.Let us please one day share our opinions without humiliating or insulting albanians.Try to consider albanians as a human beings and not as a second rated citizens.Learn to except other comments. Don't take it personally. Learn to respect another human being.When you do that you will win.Cheers.

Well hopefully our Russian brothers keep their word this time around. Since the final status solution is going to be decided in the Security Council, we have pretty much assured a veto from Russia and one from China is very likely. In the end this will be a big political score for Belgrade, we will keep the province of Kosovo in the boundaries of the sovereign state of Serbia and we will have shown our will to compromise and negotiate. While the Albanians will probably end up doing something stupid like declaring unilaterally independance or even worse starting another ethnic cleansing campaign as in 2004. They would probably even end up attacking KFOR and UMNIK as they have already this past year (biting the hand that feeds you), in turn this could signal them losing even the high autonomy which is going to be given to them. We already have Russia,Spain,Italy and China on board. Some political opinion has shifted in the US but not enough (not that thats going to be a problem but things are easier with America on your side, since their is a well-funded and well embedded Albanian lobby in Washington fighting to the death now to rip Kosovo and Metohija away from Serbia officially. It seems like things are going well in our direction we just need to keep the diplomatic offensive going 24/7 until it gets to the security council.

All this hype, hmmm...

According to the report above, Putin said that "such a proposal cannot be supported".

Since he did not say "we will prevent such a proposal from being approved", this looks more like an abstenation then a veto.

Lost in translation again?

Should EU and US decide to unilaterally recognize the independence for Kosovo,that is all majority of Kosovo want.None really cares whether some African state, or Russia does the same. We Kosovars see EU and the western democracies as an example to follow for our (soon to be recognized) sovereign state. Those who look at eastern block with nostalgy, have a nice trip!

Blag,

I beg to differ with you. The ball is in Belgrade's court. It is up to Serbia to try and get control of Kosova. A daunting task, with or without Russia's help.

I suggest Belgrade concentrate on getting Serbia's standard of living up to that of its neighbors and forget about a war it lost 600 years ago.

A Serb,an Italian and a Russian are each sitting at different tables at a Belgrade cafe.The Serb yells to the Russian"Hey Sergei my Slavic brother come over to my table and buy ME a drink".The Italian yells to the Russian"Hey Sergei my European friend come over to my table and I will buy YOU a drink".Sergei yells to the Serb"Looks like you will be thirsty by yourself tonight my Slavic brother" as Sergei walks over to the Italian guy's table.All joking aside though it would benefit Russia regardless of what the outcome of Kosovo's status is.Closer to home Russia has its own interests to consider.Ossetia,Abhkazia,Transdniester,Eastern Ukraine with 15 million ethnic Russians.OF COURSE Kosovo is NOT a unique case as some hypocritically argue but will be a precedent setting one with reverberations close and far.

another bluffing from kostunica. typical milosevic's stance. Or maybe pre-election declaration!!! We all remember when miilosevic used to say that Russia will not allow NATO bombing against serb military forces. We all know what happened.

It sounds quite ridiculous. If Russia would be asked, many countries would not be created. But fortunately, this is not the case.

Read between the lines your smart Serbs and not what Kostunica says. What is he saying now, that Milosevic didn't say when he was in power?
Wakeup and learn something from your mistakes, cause you haven't learned anything from the mistakes other countries made by raging wars.
Look at the bright side and try to motivate people to live together, cause today in the west Albanians and Serbs work together and they don't hate each other, as well there are in many places in Kosova and Serbia where they do work together and share the same concerns. There is a saying: "Your devil its better than others' angel".
Regardless what the outcome will be, its better to be good neighbours rather than hate each-other. Pray for peace and not for war.
As per Kostunica, or for any other politician (or any OF YOU), once you sit in the armchair you don't give that away without hesitation, including lying or any other means.
Be careful when you vote next, vote for the one that is trying to bring you all better future and the one that scolds to others and rages hate between neighbours.
There is becoming a EU nation, that every European country is trying to join even Turkey. So, what the difference let people leave as they want. Family is a mini government, they split when they see that one or another can manage alone.
Peace to all of you!

(had to change my name, since there seem to be two Kreshniks)

To mike and princip:

It may seem as if i'm taking an extremist line here (or beeing naive in a ballkan kind of a way) but i must say that your ideas about "compromise" and a "win-win" situation will simply not funcion in a place like Kosovo. The reasons are quite simple, albanians and serbs have hated each other for over a millenium, which is not the case betwen Slovenes/Serbs, Bosniaks/Serbs, Maks/Serbs.

We are completely different in every possible way.

You may think that princip is trying to compromise and promote a win-win situation, but his true goals can only be understood once you start analysing the terms he coins on a daily basis, such as:

"enhancement to the local administration"

"some form of organic role"

The sole purpose of these concepts is to return to Belgrade administrative authority over parts of Kosovo.

Princip is smart enough not to want only "territorial integrity" and "leave everything else to the albanians" because he knows very well that those are beast's dying words (saving face strategy). Instead he constantly attempts to promote a "win-win" situation and "compromise" on one hand and an "organic role" and enhancement to local administration" on the other hand. Consider the two concepts and tell me if you really believe someone that has been through what the albanians have been through would accept you "compromise" which in fact is not a compromise at all but yet another cheap wordsplay.

My Serbian friends,
it is nonsense threatening the use of military power to avoid non desired solutions for Kosovo's status.
Serbia is not in a position to start a new war.
What is worst is that Russia plans to use the Kosovo case to apply the same kind of solution (independence) to other situations (Southern Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria).
Serbia represents only the means for Russia to reaching its political goals.
If I would be Kostunica I did not trust Putin at all.

Sorry, forgot a word 'DONNOT' after the word 'and'... should be: DONNOT vote the one that scolds to other...

Peace to allof you!!!

so the "putin-guy" (the one that got into kremlin because of western terror on serbia and not by accident) won´t protect russian economic interest in serbia (like such "wise-guys" predicted for iran and now you can´t hear them any more)???

and of course italy and germany will put their investments in serbia in danger for kosovo, no question about it!

I don't trust Russian much either but Putin is not Yeltsin and Russia today is definitely not poor,weak Russia from 1999.Lets put it like this:Why would USA risk their good relations with Russia when they need Russian support on things like Iran ,North Korea,war against terrorists etc.?Bush and Cheney don't give a damn about Kosovo or Balkans at all,they just want to pull out all their troops from this region and send them to Iraq.And speaking of veto:last week Russia and China used double veto to block some US backed resolution in the Security Council referring to the situation in Burma.So,why wouldn't Russia use its veto in the case of Kosovo as well?

Raso,
referring to the F-29 fighters, maybe you wanted to speak about the 5 (five) MiG 29 survivors of the delivered 16 fighters that Soviet Union sold to Yugoslavia.
I know that a dozen of them had been destroyed by NATO in 1999.
I do not think I am wrong.

Raso,

Your comment about Putin beeing elected because of Nato's bombing of Serbia is hilarious.

Germany and italy would only risk their investments if in the upcoming elections the serbs vote for a Cetnik government. Because i really dont think Tadic and other slightly more reasonable politicians in Serbia would go so far as threatning European investments in Serbia if certain countries recodnize Kosovo's independence. And if the radicals win then it does not make much of a difference anyways, it will be a piece of cake for Europe and the world to say "ermmm, these guys still live in the 12th century, they should not even rule themselves and let alone someone else"

Actualy, i hope the radicals win these elections. Because we wont have to reason with them.
----------------------------

Peter:

Russia is not beeig a huge help with Iran and North Korea at the moment, in fact they were one of the major suppliers of the nuclear technology for those countries anyways, so Kosovo will be the US's way of telling the Rusians "dont mess with us"

Russia did nothing to protect you in 1999, why should 2007 be any different? in 1999 the US and the entire civilized world bombed a "Soverign European Country" without the UN's approval, and that is a more serious deal that recodnizing independence.

Nick/Kreshnik - Win-win is the best option for all - this is a genuine comment. Of course I don't hide by Serbian heritage and would want to ensure the best outcome for Serbs in Kosovo & Metohija who deserve security and standards that any other human rightfully has. But I extend this to all the other ethnic groups within all of Serbia not just KiM that realise cooperation and partnership is in the best economic interest of all in Serbia. I live in the UK and respect its territory and like Blair asks "conform to it".

The suggestion that Albanians cannot live with Serbs or vice-versa is a non starter. Such a scenario you imply by such a statement is that you want an Independent Kosovo & Metohija cleansed of all Serbs - in which case I doubt you would wish for the Roma's to be left in such a state as such sentiment stated would suggest you see Roma as Serb collaborators. Put me right if I am wrong but consider your words carefully.

The reality is that Russia has now again stated it will not allow the sanction of a new Resolution that Serbia does not agree with. This is not because of a "Slavic Brotherhood" but about Russian interest because the US stated catergorically that it would not create a precedent that Russia could use to its advantage. Unless the US changes its stance on the precedent setting scenario and that Kosovo & Metohija can be used in other more worthy cases of independence - Abkhazia, Trans-Dneister, South Ossetia, Eastern Ukraine, Nagorno Karabakh - just some ex-soviet issues and there are many more world wide. If the US would play ball with the Russians on this they know that this would be completly unacceptable to the Chinese - ask yourself why Arhtasarri met the Chinese in Oct. last year?

You see the US has got itself into a bit of an international no-win scenario. Kosovo & Metohija solution can't be a precedent - Russian Veto, KiM Solution can be a precedent - China Veto. This is why the "Proposal" now "DRAFT" was not presented at the end of Oct. begining of Nov. This is why it is now a DRAFT which will be presented and by such a sugesstion implies more negotiations.

This is why I suggest that the ethnic-Albanian leadership get real about the situation that they now face themselves with. Sadly, they are like ostriches with their head in the sands, unwilling to see that the US cannot deliver and will fail to ensure they get the best solution given the no-win legality the US has put itself in. Morover, the international landscape has changed in the last 8 years. The UN has realised that the ethnic-Albanian leadership is inept and wants to push the problem onto the EU as soon as it can. But there is no solution and they are very concerned at the poor leadership and radical elements who threaten and implement violence on a daily basis in Kosovo & Metohija. The last 8 years was an opportunity for the ethnic-Albanians to show their worth but have failed - look at your leadership and don't put the blame on UNMIK.

So now we have a scenario where neither Serbs or ethnic-Albanians deserve outright control of Kosovo & Metohija. If the ethnic-Albanian leadership fail to grasp the opportunity then they will lose out and that is not what I wish to see as it is not in anyones interest. However, it will be more detrimental to the ethnic-Albanians as the Serbs were in this frame of mind 8 years ago and have learnt and are better prepared to deal with what happens when the S hits the fan and this time it won't stick to them!!

So read and learn the message I put forth - Win-Win is in the interest of all the peoples of Serbia. Like Blair said recently in the UK "Conform to it".

Nick,i am not saying Russia will protect Serbia,i am just trying to look on this situation without any emotions ,only from pure interest.But now i more and more understand that Albanians would love very much that Milosevic is still alive and in power in Belgrade so they can portrey themselvs as his "poor,innocent,freedom loving,blah,blah victims".And thats a "bit" hard now when true democrat as Boris Tadic is Serbian president.Also seems that Albanians really belive that somebody on the West loves them so much and that USA\EU will do anything to create independent Kosovo.Then why did they invest billions of $ in Serbia and not in Kosovo?Cause they "love" Serbia so much?Of course not,everybody looks just his own interests.Americans don't give a damn about Albanians or Serbs,they just want to put all this mess under the carpet as soon as possible and pack their bags.And about Russia:Russia is protecting its own interests all over the world now,(Yeltsin's Russia is gone long time ago but seems you don't get it),if they put veto few days ago in Security council cause of Burma i don't see why wouldn't they do that about Kosovo,of course if thats their OWN interest,not Serbian.

Peter the world has changed since 1999. Iraq, US and UK body bags, Afganistan. I think that Bush and his puppy Blair will have no stomach to attempt a conflict that requires a committment of more troops. It would be a disaster for the Republicans and Labour.

Russia is a different nation as well. Post 1999 has seen a new confident, nationalistic Russia who has other weapons in its arsenal. Only last week she turned off her gas supplies leaving much of central and eastern europe without energy. The gun doesn't always have to be the tool to persuade.

massimo,

right now there are 5 f-29 jets (of the hundreds destroyed,lol) in russia on remont. the rest is fighting helicopters, and helicopters for troop-transport, totaly 18. the rest of the airforce is obviously in good shape.

take it as an insurance for weirdos that keep talking of indiependent kosovo.

you don´t really think that there will be no resocialising of foreign investments from countries that can´t read a map???

let´s get aside the fact that the european union isn´t able to work any longer or accept new countries into the union ( - nizza was about bulgaria and romania, and this was it for decades - due to the lack of an constitution, look at croatia, they are entering the third decade with the running gag of eu-membership), there are 4 serious parties in serbia, and only one is for unconditional membership.

what is giving you the security at all that serbia wants to join the union?? why should serbia do something against its own economic interest??

besides that, i´m a city-boy, why should i get member of the european (farmers) union?

it amazes me how people go on about comenting on so much nonsense...what do we care what russia or uk or us or serbia has to say over this...listen to the reality and that is athough i am an albanian..i would advice everyone to read BORIS coment, that reality is this unless you want a second Palestine in the balkans and as Boris says all the serbs would be effected in kosova one way or another from not reaching an agreement that actualy suit the 2.2million of kosova.
let not let selfish politians pretend to protect a right of sovranity thats been already lost..
Boris keep on telling your fellow serbian people that are writing from NY, UK and rest of the world that think know the situation on the Ground without setting foot in kosova..

Princip,

What you fail to understand is that we have already won. Either way Serbia will not exercise any authority over the Kosovo Albanians, this is one of a basic principles of the Kosovo issue. Serbian troops and police will never be allowed on Kosovo soil, and you wont be able to inffluence anything (except perhaps the Kosovo Serbs)

Everyone (including Russia and China) clealry understand that the presence of a single Serbian policement or soldier in Kosovo would cause the situation to destabilize, and from what i have read so far Russia and China are more interested in "territorial integrity" which does not necesarly mean administrative control.

Furthermore, we all understand and know that our Government is not yet mature enough to run the country at 100% efficiency. But lets also not forget that the Serbian regime that ran Kosovo before 1999 didnt do such a good job either. And i am refering to discrimination and opression, but simple administrative capability. The serbian aparatus in Kosovo completely destroyed the economy through corruption and negligence (without even getting into human rights and such).

We have already won the arguement about "no serbian authority over Kosovo", so why should be negociate with you?

Tadic and other resonable serbian politicians understand that the only thing left to negociate is to keep kosovo "FORMALLY" under Serbian borders.

You will soon find that you will lose this arguement too, any resonable clever US or EU politician understand that keeping Kosovo formally under Serbia will create problems in the future. So why BOTHER.

Finally, you asked me to think about why Ahtisari went to china. Now i would like to ask you why the President of Serbia started preparing the people for Kosovo Independence (would that have something to do with his vists in the states and the EU)?

------------------------

Peter:

1. Yes having Milosevic in power in Belgrade (not Kosovo) would have made it a lot easier. So please vote radical :)

2. We dont think the US/EU loves us. The serbs in this forums often try to portray the Albanians as emotional and naive individuals, which is mostly not the case. We believe and we know that the US and the EU will be smart enough not to allow for ambiguity which would lead to more violence in the future.

3. Why did the EU and US invest in Serbia? Well in order to explain that to you you would need to have some basic knowledge of the basic principles of economics, such as "risk and reward". The situation is Kosovo at the present is unclear, and foreign companies would rather invest in a sovereign country that can gurantee their rights, rather than in a UN protectorate with unlcear legal conditions. After the status solution, Kosovo will be able to attract more investors because the Government will be able to gurantee their investments. Investments have nothing to do with love.

4. I agree, the international community wants to get this over with, and they know fully well that it will be over only when Kosovo gets its Independence.

5. Yes, Russia could veto, but WHO CARES. The US and the EU will recodnize us, and thats all that matters to us.

To all Serbs:

You lost Kosova when the first bomb was dropped on Serbia in 1999. You may not realize it, but the 1999 war with NATO set in motion a very long term change in foreign policy toward rump Yugoslvia a.k.a. Serbia. This is was a very serious and far reaching consequence for Serbia culminating in the eventual independence for Kosova. The chaos that Serbia caused for Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova is now coming back to haunt Serbia. The evidence is overwhelming. And NO, America and the E.U. are not buying the lie that the new Gov't in Serbia is any better than the last. Serbia does not even want to turn in its "heros" to the Hague. You see, the E.U. has a very long memory, so all the maneuvering that Serbia is attempting is for naught.

There is no win-win solution for Serbia!

I am sorry my dear serbian friends if I will wake up you from your dreams. I don't believe Rusia is in position to block Kosovo independence since i have engaged some rusian solders to work in my field in malisheva for 10 euro per day in september 2002. This is the reality!

nick, you make some strong points but you overlook some key things.

1. this is not 1999, its 2007.

2. a superpower struggling worldwide with determined resistance and belligerance

3. a superpower losing significant political capital every day of the week in iraq with a lame duck president who presides over a split govt (even in his own party)

3. as i have noted on this site many times. unilateral recognition = messy recognition (prolonged legal challenge, partition, economic embargo, serb belligerance). the only way to a better economic life is a friendly serbia. this is a hard pill to swallow, but its true.

nothing new, but it seems that serbia will need its 18 F-29 and fighting-heli´s that are on remont in russia much earlier.

i hope the talk was about that/serious issues, and not about science-fiction like indiependent kosovo.

So what does this mean? Again, COMPROMISE. In my opinion, Kosovo in some symbolic way remains part of Serbia but has no direct connection to Belgrade (call it virtual independence). This assuages Belgrade's fears of territorial dismemberment, while affirming Albanian demands for self-determination. All politics are local at the level of Pristina and the smaller municipalities, with Brussels being the supervising executive power. This arrangement continues for the foreseeable future until stable political and civic intisutions are built in the region to ensure self-sustaining properity and development. This becomes finalized with a dual-track road to the EU for both Serbia and Kosovo Province. I believe this agrees with Princip's "win-win" situation, which in the end, seems the best long-term solution.

raso what are you trying to say. What are you going to do with this helicopters? Another Srebrenica? Just wondering

'Unnecessary conflicts'? Is that a threat, Mr. Kostunica?
And who said that Russia has to approve the existence of the new country?

CONFIRMATION. read it twice... especially, the words: "unless acceptable to belgrade."

that dismisses the ICG nonsense and puts the ball in pristina's court. if it chooses a unilateral declaration it will be a messy indep (legal challenge, serb belligerance, partition, blockade).

so this takes us back to compromise: an EU protectorate with enhanced, but not full sovreignty; decentralization and an organic role for belgrade.

in fact i now predict a replay of the early days of rambuillet. i think pristina will not sign anything (although this time there will be no bombing).

I am amazed by some short sighted politicians and commentators here still living in a dream world. Mr. Kostunica's campaign with Putin and some alike will ultimately lead to Unilateral declaration of Independence. If that's the case, it will be a nightmare for Serbia and tragedy for the Serbs like myself still hopping to live in Kosmet.

As unfortunate as it may seem, some of you simply do not grasp the seriousness of the problem and base your comments on patriotic sentiments.

It's true that Unilateral Declaration will not bring Albanians and us Kosmet Serbs nothing productive in terms of economical progress, and as some often say, it may become like Taiwan, or divide the world in its recognition, but... What will Kosmet Serbs gain out of all this? A one way ticket to Srpska Republica or join refuge lines together with Romas in some pathetic little towns in Serbia.

Mr. Kostunica is looking more for a glorious place in Serbian history than for truly resolving the problem in a civilized manner.

And surely, in 80 years from now, he will be known as a leader who stood to the pressure of the west and may even get a heroic boost somewhere in Serbia. But by then, he will also be known as someone whose politics emptied Kosmet out of the last Serb.

I wish to ask some of the commentators here. What will your claim on Kosmet be based on if there is only one percent of Serbs left in 10 years from now.

You can't base everything on the churches and monasteries if you have no population left. If Serb politicians continue with this approach, most of our 1000 year history, Churches and Monasteries will be nothing than EU protected ghost zones.

Analyze well my friends, and you'll see that Chedomir Jovanovic's peaceful plan of handling Kosovo problem with certain conditions is the best plan.

And those conditions should be: Return of all refuges who can prove their birth rights in Kosmet. Guaranties of rebuilding Serbian dilapidated structures, roads, schools with upcoming EU funds, A Serbian University in Pristina or Mitrovica, Allow Serbian Flag to freely fly in all Serb municipalities, pass a law to make it harder for Serbs to sell their properties, guaranties that KFOR will be there all the way until Kosmet and Serbia join EU. Albanian demands of Indipendence should become official and recognized world wide only after a certain period, or only if above mentioned contitions are implemented.

And all this, should be garanted by UN before signing of Independence.

well, if a person who uses pen name Blag would write at hello.ween@mail.ee, I would be very very appriciated

There is nothing new here. At worst, Russia will be bypassed/cajoled. All Western diplomats have pretty much said that the final solution will be a form of independence. It is understandable that Serbs, in the absence of any viable platform for achieving any other result, will hang on to words from fringe conversations for dear life. Desperation breeds exhaustion and vice versa...in the end Serbia will not have any shred of sovreignty left over Kosovo de-jure and de facto. The United States is the only superpower in the world capable of making foreign policy on the global scale, even though certain other economic wannabes try and act big. And Uncle Sam is firmly on the Albanian camp. They bombed Serbia to make that point.

Sebastian,

Russia is a VETO-holding member of the UN Security Council, which can, and will, VETO any resolution that attempts to grant independence to Kosovo. Read up on it.

Instead of demanding independence and refusing to negotiate, you should find a face saving way out of this. Like agreeing to autonomy. You won't get your way this time.

Mike, you are quite right, but I do believe that just as Blag mentions there will be some form of organic role for Belgrade. This is crucial to assuage the returnees of their security and will make for a speedier return - this is not neccessarily a parellel government but an enhancement to the local administration. I would also like to see in the negotiation talks that take place following the "Draft/Proposal" that church property is fully respected seeing as "Metohija" is literally Church land. Clearly these are things that the Serbian Leadership can put forth and it is clear to see that the negotiations themselve will be intensive and take a while to ensure all options are discussed fully.

Hopefully the ethnic-Albanian leadership can step up and lead their consituents to ensure that a solution provides the best compromise for their benefit too.

1. I think Russia is lying to Serbia; Ceku's visit proves it Putin will engage the Republic of Kosova in the future. Kosova will not become a new Bosnia, the EU-USA and more importantly the Kosovars will not let Kosova become a failed state.

TO Blag

On a recent post
Serbs claim Kosova as theirs on the bases of their churches. That is perhaps the most ridiculous claim because Serbs and religious fundamentalist of that type are known for building a church for every 5 people. To give you an example, in one city where there are only 1,000 Serbs...there are nevertheless 18 Serb churches to service them!! Serbs build as many churches as possible to service a non-existent population.

Dear Blag, or Blagoje or whichever name you prefer.Thank you for your analysis.I think you should write a book about Russia and Balkans and maybe you can sell it on ebay and all the profit you can send it to Serbia.What amazes me is your free time.Your posts are everywhere,from politics to cats and dogs.Why you just come in open and say that you hate albanians and then you can leave us alone. B92 and a lot of Serbian Citizens are there together with Europe but you still live in 80'.Let us please one day share our opinions without humiliating or insulting albanians.Try to consider albanians as a human beings and not as a second rated citizens.Learn to except other comments. Don't take it personally. Learn to respect another human being.When you do that you will win.Cheers.

Well hopefully our Russian brothers keep their word this time around. Since the final status solution is going to be decided in the Security Council, we have pretty much assured a veto from Russia and one from China is very likely. In the end this will be a big political score for Belgrade, we will keep the province of Kosovo in the boundaries of the sovereign state of Serbia and we will have shown our will to compromise and negotiate. While the Albanians will probably end up doing something stupid like declaring unilaterally independance or even worse starting another ethnic cleansing campaign as in 2004. They would probably even end up attacking KFOR and UMNIK as they have already this past year (biting the hand that feeds you), in turn this could signal them losing even the high autonomy which is going to be given to them. We already have Russia,Spain,Italy and China on board. Some political opinion has shifted in the US but not enough (not that thats going to be a problem but things are easier with America on your side, since their is a well-funded and well embedded Albanian lobby in Washington fighting to the death now to rip Kosovo and Metohija away from Serbia officially. It seems like things are going well in our direction we just need to keep the diplomatic offensive going 24/7 until it gets to the security council.

All this hype, hmmm...

According to the report above, Putin said that "such a proposal cannot be supported".

Since he did not say "we will prevent such a proposal from being approved", this looks more like an abstenation then a veto.

Lost in translation again?

Should EU and US decide to unilaterally recognize the independence for Kosovo,that is all majority of Kosovo want.None really cares whether some African state, or Russia does the same. We Kosovars see EU and the western democracies as an example to follow for our (soon to be recognized) sovereign state. Those who look at eastern block with nostalgy, have a nice trip!

Blag,

I beg to differ with you. The ball is in Belgrade's court. It is up to Serbia to try and get control of Kosova. A daunting task, with or without Russia's help.

I suggest Belgrade concentrate on getting Serbia's standard of living up to that of its neighbors and forget about a war it lost 600 years ago.

A Serb,an Italian and a Russian are each sitting at different tables at a Belgrade cafe.The Serb yells to the Russian"Hey Sergei my Slavic brother come over to my table and buy ME a drink".The Italian yells to the Russian"Hey Sergei my European friend come over to my table and I will buy YOU a drink".Sergei yells to the Serb"Looks like you will be thirsty by yourself tonight my Slavic brother" as Sergei walks over to the Italian guy's table.All joking aside though it would benefit Russia regardless of what the outcome of Kosovo's status is.Closer to home Russia has its own interests to consider.Ossetia,Abhkazia,Transdniester,Eastern Ukraine with 15 million ethnic Russians.OF COURSE Kosovo is NOT a unique case as some hypocritically argue but will be a precedent setting one with reverberations close and far.

another bluffing from kostunica. typical milosevic's stance. Or maybe pre-election declaration!!! We all remember when miilosevic used to say that Russia will not allow NATO bombing against serb military forces. We all know what happened.

It sounds quite ridiculous. If Russia would be asked, many countries would not be created. But fortunately, this is not the case.

Read between the lines your smart Serbs and not what Kostunica says. What is he saying now, that Milosevic didn't say when he was in power?
Wakeup and learn something from your mistakes, cause you haven't learned anything from the mistakes other countries made by raging wars.
Look at the bright side and try to motivate people to live together, cause today in the west Albanians and Serbs work together and they don't hate each other, as well there are in many places in Kosova and Serbia where they do work together and share the same concerns. There is a saying: "Your devil its better than others' angel".
Regardless what the outcome will be, its better to be good neighbours rather than hate each-other. Pray for peace and not for war.
As per Kostunica, or for any other politician (or any OF YOU), once you sit in the armchair you don't give that away without hesitation, including lying or any other means.
Be careful when you vote next, vote for the one that is trying to bring you all better future and the one that scolds to others and rages hate between neighbours.
There is becoming a EU nation, that every European country is trying to join even Turkey. So, what the difference let people leave as they want. Family is a mini government, they split when they see that one or another can manage alone.
Peace to all of you!

(had to change my name, since there seem to be two Kreshniks)

To mike and princip:

It may seem as if i'm taking an extremist line here (or beeing naive in a ballkan kind of a way) but i must say that your ideas about "compromise" and a "win-win" situation will simply not funcion in a place like Kosovo. The reasons are quite simple, albanians and serbs have hated each other for over a millenium, which is not the case betwen Slovenes/Serbs, Bosniaks/Serbs, Maks/Serbs.

We are completely different in every possible way.

You may think that princip is trying to compromise and promote a win-win situation, but his true goals can only be understood once you start analysing the terms he coins on a daily basis, such as:

"enhancement to the local administration"

"some form of organic role"

The sole purpose of these concepts is to return to Belgrade administrative authority over parts of Kosovo.

Princip is smart enough not to want only "territorial integrity" and "leave everything else to the albanians" because he knows very well that those are beast's dying words (saving face strategy). Instead he constantly attempts to promote a "win-win" situation and "compromise" on one hand and an "organic role" and enhancement to local administration" on the other hand. Consider the two concepts and tell me if you really believe someone that has been through what the albanians have been through would accept you "compromise" which in fact is not a compromise at all but yet another cheap wordsplay.

My Serbian friends,
it is nonsense threatening the use of military power to avoid non desired solutions for Kosovo's status.
Serbia is not in a position to start a new war.
What is worst is that Russia plans to use the Kosovo case to apply the same kind of solution (independence) to other situations (Southern Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria).
Serbia represents only the means for Russia to reaching its political goals.
If I would be Kostunica I did not trust Putin at all.

Sorry, forgot a word 'DONNOT' after the word 'and'... should be: DONNOT vote the one that scolds to other...

Peace to allof you!!!

so the "putin-guy" (the one that got into kremlin because of western terror on serbia and not by accident) won´t protect russian economic interest in serbia (like such "wise-guys" predicted for iran and now you can´t hear them any more)???

and of course italy and germany will put their investments in serbia in danger for kosovo, no question about it!

I don't trust Russian much either but Putin is not Yeltsin and Russia today is definitely not poor,weak Russia from 1999.Lets put it like this:Why would USA risk their good relations with Russia when they need Russian support on things like Iran ,North Korea,war against terrorists etc.?Bush and Cheney don't give a damn about Kosovo or Balkans at all,they just want to pull out all their troops from this region and send them to Iraq.And speaking of veto:last week Russia and China used double veto to block some US backed resolution in the Security Council referring to the situation in Burma.So,why wouldn't Russia use its veto in the case of Kosovo as well?

Raso,
referring to the F-29 fighters, maybe you wanted to speak about the 5 (five) MiG 29 survivors of the delivered 16 fighters that Soviet Union sold to Yugoslavia.
I know that a dozen of them had been destroyed by NATO in 1999.
I do not think I am wrong.

Raso,

Your comment about Putin beeing elected because of Nato's bombing of Serbia is hilarious.

Germany and italy would only risk their investments if in the upcoming elections the serbs vote for a Cetnik government. Because i really dont think Tadic and other slightly more reasonable politicians in Serbia would go so far as threatning European investments in Serbia if certain countries recodnize Kosovo's independence. And if the radicals win then it does not make much of a difference anyways, it will be a piece of cake for Europe and the world to say "ermmm, these guys still live in the 12th century, they should not even rule themselves and let alone someone else"

Actualy, i hope the radicals win these elections. Because we wont have to reason with them.
----------------------------

Peter:

Russia is not beeig a huge help with Iran and North Korea at the moment, in fact they were one of the major suppliers of the nuclear technology for those countries anyways, so Kosovo will be the US's way of telling the Rusians "dont mess with us"

Russia did nothing to protect you in 1999, why should 2007 be any different? in 1999 the US and the entire civilized world bombed a "Soverign European Country" without the UN's approval, and that is a more serious deal that recodnizing independence.

Nick/Kreshnik - Win-win is the best option for all - this is a genuine comment. Of course I don't hide by Serbian heritage and would want to ensure the best outcome for Serbs in Kosovo & Metohija who deserve security and standards that any other human rightfully has. But I extend this to all the other ethnic groups within all of Serbia not just KiM that realise cooperation and partnership is in the best economic interest of all in Serbia. I live in the UK and respect its territory and like Blair asks "conform to it".

The suggestion that Albanians cannot live with Serbs or vice-versa is a non starter. Such a scenario you imply by such a statement is that you want an Independent Kosovo & Metohija cleansed of all Serbs - in which case I doubt you would wish for the Roma's to be left in such a state as such sentiment stated would suggest you see Roma as Serb collaborators. Put me right if I am wrong but consider your words carefully.

The reality is that Russia has now again stated it will not allow the sanction of a new Resolution that Serbia does not agree with. This is not because of a "Slavic Brotherhood" but about Russian interest because the US stated catergorically that it would not create a precedent that Russia could use to its advantage. Unless the US changes its stance on the precedent setting scenario and that Kosovo & Metohija can be used in other more worthy cases of independence - Abkhazia, Trans-Dneister, South Ossetia, Eastern Ukraine, Nagorno Karabakh - just some ex-soviet issues and there are many more world wide. If the US would play ball with the Russians on this they know that this would be completly unacceptable to the Chinese - ask yourself why Arhtasarri met the Chinese in Oct. last year?

You see the US has got itself into a bit of an international no-win scenario. Kosovo & Metohija solution can't be a precedent - Russian Veto, KiM Solution can be a precedent - China Veto. This is why the "Proposal" now "DRAFT" was not presented at the end of Oct. begining of Nov. This is why it is now a DRAFT which will be presented and by such a sugesstion implies more negotiations.

This is why I suggest that the ethnic-Albanian leadership get real about the situation that they now face themselves with. Sadly, they are like ostriches with their head in the sands, unwilling to see that the US cannot deliver and will fail to ensure they get the best solution given the no-win legality the US has put itself in. Morover, the international landscape has changed in the last 8 years. The UN has realised that the ethnic-Albanian leadership is inept and wants to push the problem onto the EU as soon as it can. But there is no solution and they are very concerned at the poor leadership and radical elements who threaten and implement violence on a daily basis in Kosovo & Metohija. The last 8 years was an opportunity for the ethnic-Albanians to show their worth but have failed - look at your leadership and don't put the blame on UNMIK.

So now we have a scenario where neither Serbs or ethnic-Albanians deserve outright control of Kosovo & Metohija. If the ethnic-Albanian leadership fail to grasp the opportunity then they will lose out and that is not what I wish to see as it is not in anyones interest. However, it will be more detrimental to the ethnic-Albanians as the Serbs were in this frame of mind 8 years ago and have learnt and are better prepared to deal with what happens when the S hits the fan and this time it won't stick to them!!

So read and learn the message I put forth - Win-Win is in the interest of all the peoples of Serbia. Like Blair said recently in the UK "Conform to it".

Nick,i am not saying Russia will protect Serbia,i am just trying to look on this situation without any emotions ,only from pure interest.But now i more and more understand that Albanians would love very much that Milosevic is still alive and in power in Belgrade so they can portrey themselvs as his "poor,innocent,freedom loving,blah,blah victims".And thats a "bit" hard now when true democrat as Boris Tadic is Serbian president.Also seems that Albanians really belive that somebody on the West loves them so much and that USA\EU will do anything to create independent Kosovo.Then why did they invest billions of $ in Serbia and not in Kosovo?Cause they "love" Serbia so much?Of course not,everybody looks just his own interests.Americans don't give a damn about Albanians or Serbs,they just want to put all this mess under the carpet as soon as possible and pack their bags.And about Russia:Russia is protecting its own interests all over the world now,(Yeltsin's Russia is gone long time ago but seems you don't get it),if they put veto few days ago in Security council cause of Burma i don't see why wouldn't they do that about Kosovo,of course if thats their OWN interest,not Serbian.

Peter the world has changed since 1999. Iraq, US and UK body bags, Afganistan. I think that Bush and his puppy Blair will have no stomach to attempt a conflict that requires a committment of more troops. It would be a disaster for the Republicans and Labour.

Russia is a different nation as well. Post 1999 has seen a new confident, nationalistic Russia who has other weapons in its arsenal. Only last week she turned off her gas supplies leaving much of central and eastern europe without energy. The gun doesn't always have to be the tool to persuade.

massimo,

right now there are 5 f-29 jets (of the hundreds destroyed,lol) in russia on remont. the rest is fighting helicopters, and helicopters for troop-transport, totaly 18. the rest of the airforce is obviously in good shape.

take it as an insurance for weirdos that keep talking of indiependent kosovo.

you don´t really think that there will be no resocialising of foreign investments from countries that can´t read a map???

let´s get aside the fact that the european union isn´t able to work any longer or accept new countries into the union ( - nizza was about bulgaria and romania, and this was it for decades - due to the lack of an constitution, look at croatia, they are entering the third decade with the running gag of eu-membership), there are 4 serious parties in serbia, and only one is for unconditional membership.

what is giving you the security at all that serbia wants to join the union?? why should serbia do something against its own economic interest??

besides that, i´m a city-boy, why should i get member of the european (farmers) union?

it amazes me how people go on about comenting on so much nonsense...what do we care what russia or uk or us or serbia has to say over this...listen to the reality and that is athough i am an albanian..i would advice everyone to read BORIS coment, that reality is this unless you want a second Palestine in the balkans and as Boris says all the serbs would be effected in kosova one way or another from not reaching an agreement that actualy suit the 2.2million of kosova.
let not let selfish politians pretend to protect a right of sovranity thats been already lost..
Boris keep on telling your fellow serbian people that are writing from NY, UK and rest of the world that think know the situation on the Ground without setting foot in kosova..

Princip,

What you fail to understand is that we have already won. Either way Serbia will not exercise any authority over the Kosovo Albanians, this is one of a basic principles of the Kosovo issue. Serbian troops and police will never be allowed on Kosovo soil, and you wont be able to inffluence anything (except perhaps the Kosovo Serbs)

Everyone (including Russia and China) clealry understand that the presence of a single Serbian policement or soldier in Kosovo would cause the situation to destabilize, and from what i have read so far Russia and China are more interested in "territorial integrity" which does not necesarly mean administrative control.

Furthermore, we all understand and know that our Government is not yet mature enough to run the country at 100% efficiency. But lets also not forget that the Serbian regime that ran Kosovo before 1999 didnt do such a good job either. And i am refering to discrimination and opression, but simple administrative capability. The serbian aparatus in Kosovo completely destroyed the economy through corruption and negligence (without even getting into human rights and such).

We have already won the arguement about "no serbian authority over Kosovo", so why should be negociate with you?

Tadic and other resonable serbian politicians understand that the only thing left to negociate is to keep kosovo "FORMALLY" under Serbian borders.

You will soon find that you will lose this arguement too, any resonable clever US or EU politician understand that keeping Kosovo formally under Serbia will create problems in the future. So why BOTHER.

Finally, you asked me to think about why Ahtisari went to china. Now i would like to ask you why the President of Serbia started preparing the people for Kosovo Independence (would that have something to do with his vists in the states and the EU)?

------------------------

Peter:

1. Yes having Milosevic in power in Belgrade (not Kosovo) would have made it a lot easier. So please vote radical :)

2. We dont think the US/EU loves us. The serbs in this forums often try to portray the Albanians as emotional and naive individuals, which is mostly not the case. We believe and we know that the US and the EU will be smart enough not to allow for ambiguity which would lead to more violence in the future.

3. Why did the EU and US invest in Serbia? Well in order to explain that to you you would need to have some basic knowledge of the basic principles of economics, such as "risk and reward". The situation is Kosovo at the present is unclear, and foreign companies would rather invest in a sovereign country that can gurantee their rights, rather than in a UN protectorate with unlcear legal conditions. After the status solution, Kosovo will be able to attract more investors because the Government will be able to gurantee their investments. Investments have nothing to do with love.

4. I agree, the international community wants to get this over with, and they know fully well that it will be over only when Kosovo gets its Independence.

5. Yes, Russia could veto, but WHO CARES. The US and the EU will recodnize us, and thats all that matters to us.

To all Serbs:

You lost Kosova when the first bomb was dropped on Serbia in 1999. You may not realize it, but the 1999 war with NATO set in motion a very long term change in foreign policy toward rump Yugoslvia a.k.a. Serbia. This is was a very serious and far reaching consequence for Serbia culminating in the eventual independence for Kosova. The chaos that Serbia caused for Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova is now coming back to haunt Serbia. The evidence is overwhelming. And NO, America and the E.U. are not buying the lie that the new Gov't in Serbia is any better than the last. Serbia does not even want to turn in its "heros" to the Hague. You see, the E.U. has a very long memory, so all the maneuvering that Serbia is attempting is for naught.

There is no win-win solution for Serbia!

I am sorry my dear serbian friends if I will wake up you from your dreams. I don't believe Rusia is in position to block Kosovo independence since i have engaged some rusian solders to work in my field in malisheva for 10 euro per day in september 2002. This is the reality!

nick, you make some strong points but you overlook some key things.

1. this is not 1999, its 2007.

2. a superpower struggling worldwide with determined resistance and belligerance

3. a superpower losing significant political capital every day of the week in iraq with a lame duck president who presides over a split govt (even in his own party)

3. as i have noted on this site many times. unilateral recognition = messy recognition (prolonged legal challenge, partition, economic embargo, serb belligerance). the only way to a better economic life is a friendly serbia. this is a hard pill to swallow, but its true.