Ahtisaari’s office won’t confirm further talks

Even if negotiations are scheduled, the UN can't force Serbia to do so. After all the Serbs haven't negotiated up till now. However, the UN can impose a settlement that they see fit.

Actually Ahtisaari is right on this point. Right by default that is. It takes 2 sides to talk. If the Albanians won't talk further, how can there possibly be further talks?

Personally I always suspect that Ahtissari thought he only needed to be careful about offending USA and the Albanians. He thought he could easily arm twist Belgrade until he found to his unexpected horror that he had to scale a Russian brick wall to do that.

And I think he can't wait for the proposal release to be over and his mandate ends and he could disappear for good. He certainly didn't expect Moscow to oppose what he had initially thought would be an easy charade of stage-managed "negotiations". He must be so frustrated by now.

Arben, I think you'll find that it is the Serbian side who have been asking for meaningful negotiations to be allowed. Maybe this has been the issue all along no-one has explained the meaning of the word "negotiation" to the ethnic-Albanians ? Is it possible that thare is no word in Albanian that properly translates to the meaning of negotiations? Given that the contact group have stated that it must be acceptable to both parties this would imply that a compromise will take place by both and so I guess the sooner the ethnic-Albanian side realise that this implies independence is off the table the sooner a solution can be found that is acceptable.

Princip,
I think you'll find that nothing is "off the table", including Independence. That is why it is called "negotiations".

Arben, You can't 'negotiate' away the ownership of sovereign land. The various parties can, in this circumstance, negotiate the rights of ALL the people who live there, but that's where it ends. The day that Nato, the UN, the US or the 'international community' hands over land which already belongs to another nation should be a day that we all fear. Where would that sort of action end?

The main argument that serbs are using, is that serbia is a soverign country, and legaly kosovo is part of serbia. True.

But how did kosovo become legaly part of serbia? we don't hear about that very often do we?

In beginning of 20th century Serbia forcefully and violently occupied Kosovo from the Ottoman Empire, agains the wish of local popluation, where at the time it was almost all albanian and non-serb. Kosovo was recognised as part of Serbia a in 1913 at conferece of
London by European countries as a 'reward' for playing a part in the defeat of ottoman empire amd their subsequent retreat from Europe. Plus serbs did a good propaganda at to how albanians are turks, non-humans, blah blah blah.

The only agrument that serbs had was that kosovo was their birthplace (not true), and that they built some stupid churches 5 or 6 centuries before that!! So what? Rome and British Empire occupied the whole world. They built many monument, cities everywhere, and lot of roman and british people where living all around the world. Does it mean that Inda or South Africa should belong to UK? Does is mean that some parts of Egypt should belong to macedonians because A. the Great built Alexandria? Or let Italy claim the whole Europe.

Serbia got kosovo because they used illegal means to occupy it, when hardly any serb was living in kosovo (first around the 9th century from the local population even if that wasn't albanian as you claim, and again in 20th). But because of the politics of the time it was recognized as part of serbia in 1913.

Now serbs claim that US and UK and others occupied kosovo illegaly and are tryin to take it. If it was OK in 1913 (almost 0% serbs in kosovo), I'd say its OK now for kosovo to become independent (90% albanians). There goes you legal argument.

If you look at an old map, none of the european countries had the same borders they have today. Things happen - borders change.

As far as you historical argument- albanians have been a majority for at least 5 centuries in kosovo (thats a fact verified by everyone even by serbs), and overall in the last 20 centuries kosovo was under serbian rule for only 3 centuries. so i'd say turks have more claim to kosovo than serbs.

Kate,
It seems to me that your ideas are a bit confused. You say that we should all fear the day that the international community hands over land that already belongs to another nation. My dear, the international community has done that for a very long time now! and Albania more than any other country knows what that means.
But to whom are they giving this land? To Albania, to whom it belongs?
NO! They are giving it back to the people that inhabit that land...and have done so for centuries!
The people (90% of them) demand independence. So what is there to negotiate?

kreshnik, your view of history is warped.

STATEMENT: in the beginning of 20th C Serbia forcefully and violently occupied Kosovo from the Ottoman Empire, against the wish of local popluation, where at the time it was almost all albanian and non-serb.

COMMENT: if you base your arguments upon supporting the anti-european ottoman empire which did nothing more than enslave the south eastern half of europe and caused it to miss the renaissance and enlightenment you are on particularly weak ground. the only occupying force here is the ottomans who were rightfully kicked out and back where they came. i myself cannot believe that you support the ottoman occupation in a sea of peoples who were oppressed by them (and whose support you seek) talk about shooting yourself in the foot! no one support the ottomans. not the people who were occupied for 500 years... and no the people who were terrified of being occupied (austria, italy, spain, et al).

STATEMENT: Kosovo was recognised as part of Serbia a in 1913 at conferece of
London by European countries as a 'reward' for playing a part in the defeat of ottoman empire amd their subsequent retreat from Europe. Plus serbs did a good propaganda at to how albanians are turks, non-humans, blah blah blah.

COMMENT: yes that is true and that is the legal status. tough luck! you seem like you are angry at god or something like that.

Kreshnik wrote....
"they built some stupid churches 5 or 6 centuries before that!!"
Please don't insult..How can you ask for EU entrance with this kind of respect?
I can't even begin to fathom your ignorance.
Perhaps a few more statues of Liberty and Clinton-like street names, and you're a guaranteed EU entrance..

You oversimplify and lie about numbers..If Serbia was an occupier after 1913, then there wouldn't be a single Mosque standing, and there wouldn't be a single Albanian left..
Kosovo is unique. You can't incorporate population numbers, when the area that fluctuated in numbers very frequently. There were no true borders to speak of...

You speak of maps, and Serbian historical claims like it's some sort of ancient chest thumping, meanwhile, while you're the same kind of person that considers yourself Dardanian, Illyrian, or whatever half witted bloodline you call yourself, and you'll dig that up from the grave and hold it high..

Good luck buddy!!!
You'll need it.

Ervin, just because you have the majority does not mean you can make demands. I said earlier in a comment. 90 percent of south Florida is cuban but do they demand independence from the US or the same for Southern California? If the Serbs did not help drive out the ottomans do you think Kosovo would still be the way it is now? No i don't think so. If you make an alliance with the wrong group of course if you lose then you are subject to winners partitions of the spoils of war. So yes there will be more talks until a meaningful settlement is reached. No the albanians won't get everything they want nor will Serbia.

Kreshnik, please don't quit your day job and become a historian. You're trying to reason with the rest of us through knee-jerk comments and lavishly fabricated historical details. First of all, try not to call them "stupid churches". I don't think you'd appreciate it if I called your mosques or whatever you believe in "stupid", nor would you appreciate it if I assumed K-Albanians were nothing more than a bunch of illiterate mountain bumpkins who wouldn't know a pasha from a politician. So right there, you already lost both my interest, and my respect for your opinion.

Secondly, let's not play the numbers game. Your ridiculous claim of there being no Serbs in Kosovo prior to 1913 is simply not true. Don't think you can hoodwink the rest of us in assuming we know nothing of the region. True, many Serb families left Kosovo in 1690, but the Serbian Patriarchate was not abolished by the Ottoman empire until 1755, so SOME Serbs had to have been living there even at late as then. Even if you read Western histories of the region such as Noel Malcolm's "Kosovo: A Short History", you'll find, much to your amazement - and possibly your disappointment - that Serbs have been living in Kosovo for about as long, if not longer than Albanians (who even under the recently glorified "Illyrian Period" never referred to themselves as Albanian). In this regard, Serbs have about as much right to the land as Albanians, so enough with the childish "I WAS HERE FIRST" bantering. Do your homework next time before you decide to shoot from the hip. And again, please don't become a historian. No one would take you seriously, because according to your logic:

1. If an area was yours for 500 years and someone else's for 50, it should belong to you - the others are merely occupiers.

2. If an area was someone else's for 500 years and yours for 50, it should still belong to you because you think you deserve the right to self-determination.

To the Albanian commentators,

your main arguement is that ethnic-Albanians from Kosovo & Metohija cannot live in the same state as Serbs - put me right on that if I am wrong since this is the tone of your comments. If this is the case and the sentiment of your leadership then I am quite certain that the International community - mainly China will veto any suggestion of independence be that whether it is stated or placed between the lines as conditional, supervised or whatever it will be called next. China has issues not merely of Tibet or Taiwan but with the Uighurs who as I am sure you are only too aware of are a minority Muslim group, who want an independent state in Xinjiang province. I assume you are aware that 5 Uighars were given asylum in Albania when the US released them from Guantanamo so I assume you are only too aware why they did not end up in China.

Moreover, the last 8 years have been an opportunity for you to show that you could be a democratic independent state that respects human rights and implemented standards expected and has a policing & judicial system that is credible and ensures the protection of all its citizens - well guess what you failed on all counts of standards - that is why the solution cannot be Independence.

Beyond that such sentiment underling your comment would suggest that you agree with Matthew who comments regulary on population exhange and recognition that Kosovo & Metohija be partitioned - since what is good for the ethnic-Albanians is equally apllicable for the Serbs - hell while we are at don't forget the Roma's and others - each deserve a portion of Kosovo & Metohija. In this scenario all that needs to be deceided is proportions and which piece of land.

I personally do not agree with such sentiment. Moreover, I believe that the ethnic-Albanian leadership has poorly lead it's constituents into the cul-de-sac of xenophobic nationalism. This was true of the Serb pysche of the 90's but the majority have realised that this is a false nationalism - one where your true national identity is degraded and leads to shaming of the national identity. This lead to the loss of Serbian communities in Krajina and large parts of Bosnia & Hercegovina and culminated in the bombardment of 99 - a lesson which has been learnt. Today, the Serbs have a new forged understanding that violence does little to promote ones interest and leads to the damnation of ones identity. They have moved on & it's democracy has matured rapidly over the last few years. Though there are many who might vote for the radicals they will not be the next government. The democratic parties will have a mandate to continue with their principled stance and this will not change as it is now enshrined in the constitution and will protect its territorial integrity through all dialogue.

I hope you can realise that the current direction of the ethnic-Albanian leadership will lead you up the path where you will be ditched so fast that you won't even realise until it is too late. This is why I continually comment that independence will not happen - it is off the tebale when it comes to negotiations and yes the Serbs might not "rule" over the 1.8 million ethnic Albanians in the sense that was shown prior to 99 but that is democracy and you all have your own minds to vote for your local leadership. Howwever, you need to appreciate that this is a 2 way street and that you must equally respect the nation state within which you are a citizen and not of a neighbouring nation. Like Blair said recently "Conform to".

I realise that you are an intelligent group of individuals (some more then others) and I hope that you can think out of the box. It would seem the valley Albanians are realising that integration and promoting their rights by participating in the elections is in their intersts - it confuses me that Ceku promotes this but not for his own consituent. I congratulate all ethnic groups who promote their basic rights but that should not be at the loss of others. Nor should it mean in the 21st Centunary that 15% of Serbian territory is relabeled as a 2nd Albania. The win-win I talk about is the realisation that the real solution lies in open and honest negotiations that lead to a solution both parties agree & one which would be lasting and can create an environment of economic prosperity for all. Win-win does not create another 2nd Albania but ensures stability and economic growth for all the peoples of Serbia - what ever their ethnic background.

I can't wait for the talks to get started so that the charade can be removed and the real talks can at last really begin. Sretan Novi Godina 2007 and for that matter Gezuar Vitin e Ri 2007 for those ethnic-Albanians who might appreciate the comment. May 2007 bring about a new found understanding and all can appreciate that a win-win is possible.

Blag - you say my version of history is warped, but then you come up with no contradictory facts, and you actully agree with my statement that kosovo was given to serbia, because they occupied it and as a 'reward'. Then you say TOUGH LUCK - Ok, when kosovo gets independence all I have to say to you my friend is - TOUGH LUCK.

"If Serbia was an occupier after 1913, then there wouldn't be a single Mosque standing, and there wouldn't be a single Albanian left." - Believe me they did a lot of killing and burning.

I am not supporting ottoman empire, but what I am saying that the local population i.e majority albanians, were agains any occupition by ottomans, serbs, bulgarians or anyone else.

All I am saying that serbia got the borders it has today by war and illegal means, and because of politics at a time they were recognized legally. Same thing is about to happen now. So what goes around comes around. So stop going on about how you have some legal or moral right. you don't.

Mike

first of all the right to Kosovo should not be decided by something that happened centuries ago. Even if the history is more in albnian favour. We should look at current situation and the last century that led to these events. Serbs are the ones that keep refering to medevial kosovo.

Since you refer to Noel Malcolm he also convicingly concludes that ancient alabanians originate from the mountains of west-south Kosovo,north albanian and south montenegro. I.e. albanians have been living in the region before the serbs (this does NOT mean that that area automatically belongs to albanians) and together with the serbs after they settled.All I am saying is that serbs have no more historical right to kosovo than albanians have.Therefore they cannot use that as an argument, and they do not have some eternal right to kosovo. And i never mentioned any Illyrians in my post.

I am not denying that kosovo played a very imoprtant part in medevial serbia, and serbs were probably a majority. But the enthinc balance has shifted in albanian favour and now it is our turn to govern ourselves.It is not our fault that serbs have a low natality rate.

j.ham
"I said earlier in a comment. 90 percent of south Florida is cuban but do they demand independence from the US or the same for Southern California?"

1. And somebody replied to you that Cubans or Mexicans are immigrants to USA and albanians to Kosova are not(some might argue that they are but that's BS).
2. Americans didn't terrorize cubans or mexicans and Serbia did terrorize albanians.
3. Don't embarrass yourself by comparing Serbia to USA. It's just non-comparable.

Just some food for thought. In any normal country, If a parent (Serbia) mistreats and beats their children (Kosova/o), Social Services (NATO) come to the house and take the children away. They give them to foster parents (UN) until they are old enough to be independent (on their own).
That's what's happening to Kosova/o. Since 1912 you've been a parent to Kosova/o, but a very bad one.

"If you make an alliance with the wrong group of course if you lose then you are subject to winners partitions of the spoils of war." - Well, J.Ham, I am afraid Sebia made an alliance with a wrong group in the 90s.

and for the record we never made an alliance with the ottomans.

Krešnik Š (and Ervin from USA),

The Ottomans didn't occupy Kosovo before Serbia. There is a part of history called the Battle of Kosovo 1389, which you should read up on. The Ottomans didn't ask kindly for Kosovo. They overran it, killing Serbians in the process allowing compliant Albanians, who converted to Islam for land benefits under the Ottomans, to spread out across the Ottoman Empire. It was the break up of the Ottoman empire which gave Kosovo back to Serbia. There is term in English...To the victors belong the spoils of war. Since the Ottomans were the losers and Serbia on the winning side, Kosovo was RETURNED to Serbia. Never did it belong to Albania. And while borders have changed in the past, the Helinski Act finalized all the borders in Europe. You may wish for Kosovo to become part of Albania, but short of an unlawful taking of Kosovo, it should never happen.

And more to Ervin, if this is the case, will the USA deliver Texas back to the Mexicans since they have lived there for centuries and were there before the Americans arrived? From reading on American history, Americans moved into Texas and took it from the Mexicans. If this the basis for your opinion? Don't apply standards to Kosovo that you wouldn't apply to your country.

hey kreshnik, who says that the Albanians won´t have the right to govern themselves that´s just what todays serbian government is willing to accept!
the only thing that is not acceptable is the change of borders.
if that is the problem...
there shouldn´t be any problems!

and as to the comment of "beck"
it´s just ridiculous discussin g such an important issue on the basis of mama, papa, social service and whatever you have in mind.that´s not the right approach to that question. it´s just nonserious, immature so to say.

Note: There seem to be two Kreshniks in these forums.

Kreshnik and Kreshnik sh.

Eric

"Krešnik Š" hahaha

"There is term in English...To the victors belong the spoils of war." You lost the war in 1999, now to the victors belongs the spoils of war.

you are such a hyporcrite! its a joke.


"The Ottomans didn't ask kindly for Kosovo. They overran it, killing Serbians " Oh, so when serbs invaded kosovo in beginning of 20th century, they asked the local poplualtion kindly? did they? and they never killed any albanians?

its this serbian hypocrisy that I find very entertaining

Are you suggesting that when serbs settled in balkans they came with sweets and flowers?

Albanians didn't win the war in 99. While you were running, an agreement was reached with NATO to stop hostilities. You can't claim to be a winner when you didn't defeat your enemy. It reminds me of Saddam during the Gulf War. When the Americans stopped before Baghdad, Saddam declared he won only because he wasn't overthrown from power. Is that your definition too?

Why would there be a need to ask the Albanian population? Serbs did not invade. The land was RETURNED.

Well Kreshnik, your response to myself and Blag seems much more tempered than your first comment, but unfortunately does not agree with what you previously said. You told me that we shouldn't base any rights to land on medieval events. I absolutely agree with you, but you still say that Albanians have been living there longer than Serbs, giving them greater rights to the land. It seems like you're contradicting yourself.

Plus, you now say that Albanians and Serbs have as much right to the land as each other. Again, this contradicts your "stupid churches" comment which completely disregards the presence of any one else in the region, as well as matter-of-factly stating that Albanians have the land now and there's nothing anyone else can do about it. Kosovo's history is a shared history between many nationalities; Serbs, Albanians, and others. So if this is what you've been trying to say all along, it got horribly mangled in your first comment by emotional grist and disregard for other ethnic communities.

Guys, please don't write historical treatises in this page. As a reader, I would appreciate it if you keep your comments brief and related to the article.

Lama's comment that 'We cannot negotiate the subject of independence' with Serbia does make sense. You can't have 'meaningful negotiations' if what the two sides want are mutually exclusive things. Therefore it is up to the international community to decide about the fate of Kosovo, and it is most likely that they will respect the demands of the Kosovars.

To Serbian Comentaters.

Don't be deluding yourselfs that Russia or whoever can diminish the will of kosovars for independence. Kosovo will become independent whether you like it or not. Princip,will respond to your comments following Ahtissari's proposal when your fantasising will be undermined.

Happy New Year

Eric

It was NATO (UK & US) that won the war, and led to serb withdrawl. ANd it happens that they want to give us indpendence.

"Serbs did not invade. The land was RETURNED." They did INVADE. Read some history. Are you suggesting that there was no serb forces in Kosovo when it was reconganised as part of serbia? First they invaded, and then because of politics it was recognised.

Mike

I am not contradicting myself. The comment regading the fact that albanians have lived in kosovo longer, was to prove the point that serbs have no more historical right to kosovo then albanians. Therefore they should drop their historical and religious argument.

Albanians today are not asking independence because ' we were there first, or we are Illyrians, or whatever'. It is ridiculous to demand independence, because of something that happened centuries ago!.

Serbs are the ones who argue that because kosovo was important to serbia in medieval times, then it should remain part of serbia (particularly Koshtinica). Its a joke.

Therefore it is up to the international community to decide about the fate of Kosovo, and it is most likely that they will respect the demands of the Kosovars.
(sebastian, 15 January 2007, 18:52)

It is up to the "international community" to decide the fate of Kosovo following international law and precedents and protecting the international soverignty of Serbia as stated in UN resolution 1244, reinforced by Kostunica statements and most recently Putin statements.

Kosovo cannot become independant without the signature of Serbia.

“Matthew who comments regulary on population exhange and recognition that Kosovo & Metohija be partitioned - since what is good for the ethnic-Albanians is equally apllicable for the Serbs - hell while we are at don't forget the Roma's and others - each deserve a portion of Kosovo & Metohija. In this scenario all that needs to be deceided is proportions and which piece of land.”

First and foremost, I would like to point out that my position is negotiation and compromise, not any individual plan in particular. Any ideas and thoughts are more than welcome from either side. I’d like to know what everyone else thinks. I am sure someone else has much better ideas about starting points for negotiation, just hasn’t had the chance to express them yet.

Eh, well I totally agree that there are many inherent flaws in the idea of the right to self determination. However, what I’ve been suggesting isn’t just a population exchange, that would not give us our religious sites.

However, there are two main points to my comments.

First we ought to make a real attempt at negotiations and just throw some ideas around and see if maybe something sticks.

Secondly, I strongly believe Serbia needs to retain our cultural heritage, its not just an issue of who was there first. Some of those areas of Kosovo hold extreme importance to us, and I believe we ought to be able to retain those areas. If we have to pay a price for that (ie Presevo Valley, etc), I personally think almost any sacrifice is worth it. Protection of our population there is also equally as important, but people come and go, our culture and heritage are there and always will be.

Besides lets face it, population exchanges do work if they are done properly. Can you imagine the additional problems and issues Turkey and Greece would be having right now if they hadn’t shifted millions of their population in the past? It wouldn’t be just Cyprus that is an issue now.

And yes, I do feel the Albanians have some legitimate complaints and valid claims. I also believe those Serbs that did in fact engage in crimes against humanity should be held accountable, and that we as Serbs are in the best position to do that (Same goes for the Albanians that committed crimes against us).

However, all that being said, the idea of Kosovo getting independence as a whole freaks me out as much as any Serb here. I believe now is the time to reach out and try to find a compromise solution that in some way gives everyone those things they need most. My solution would allow for Serbs to retain those areas they occupy and those areas where our most important historical sites exist. My solution also gives the Albanians independence in those areas which are not of significant importance to Serbs and allows for them to join with Albania proper.

In any compromise or negotiation one must look at what is willing to give up, and what one really needs. What we need to find is issues in common and points we can agree on, and that is the start of any negotiation. What is the most obvious point in common? The fact that we both have our populations scattered across various other countries where our population lives in the minority and is subject to potential abuses.

If anyone on either side has some other ideas on points in common, or things to compromise on, I’m all ears. So far, all I’ve heard is mostly a discussion of how the Real Politick is going to play out in the International scene. Which in my opinion could still go either way, but is fun to discuss none the less.

The main reason I disagree with such a strategy is that it takes the power out of the hands of those involved, the Serbs and the Albanians, and puts it into the hands of the Big Players, like the EU, US and Russia.

Unfortunately, in recent history, the Serbian leadership has done an incredibly poor job at representing the interests of our people on the International Stage. Croatia did a marvelous job at PR, cleansing their entire country of Serbs and having the international media believe the Serbs voluntarily left. Luckily for the Serbs, the Albanian leadership is nearly as poor in representing their people as well. The Albanians have shown themselves as a whole to be not much smarter in their treatment of minorities and their rights as the Serbians. Had they been as clever as the Croatians, all would be lost already.

So we can refuse to compromise and negotiate and let the international community decide it for us, or maybe we can open a channel of discussion. However, it does seem to me that not enough people are interested in the alternatives, and instead merely want to continue to engage in political maneuvering and currying favors with the big powers.

Whatever happens, we as Serbs need to start taking our heritage in Kosovo seriously, especially those of us living in foreign lands with disposable incomes. We need to invest economically in the area, even if its as simple as vacationing there and getting in touch with our past. Serbian Tourism to our religious sites and the money it brings in just might make the Kosovars see those areas as economic cash cows instead of personal liabilities. People with stable jobs and money have a lot to lose, people who are dirt poor have nothing to lose but their pride. The region has an over abundance of pride already. Improving the economic status of the region will benefit our people and our culture regardless of whether independence is granted or not. Those of us in the foreign Diaspora in better financial situations should consider buying summer homes there in those areas of most importance to us or investing in religious tourism and building it up. Obviously right here and now is the best time to get the best price on property there.

Basically, I’m a pessimist, and unfortunately I do not share your optimism that everything will work out in Serbia’s favor. I think Serbia has gotten punished a lot in the last couple of decades and nothing good has come for Serbia from the International Community as of late. Obviously I think we do have a chance, but I do not think that chance is of a high percentage. Even if it ends in a PR game among the Great Powers, we still need to work on negotiations. If we go that route our best bet is to appear to be cooperating and interested in compromise. While I agree that the Serbian government should take the legal stance that Blag has so thoughtfully expressed with the International Community, however, I do also think that in dealing with the Kosovar government and the Albanians as a whole that compromise and negotiation take place at that level. I see nothing contradictory in pursuing those two positions.

If you carefully read the statements from the person who is in charge to conclude the status results,he only talks about recent history of Kosovo,i.e.since its autonomy was forcefully destroyed.That is how smart people do.If we start talking history,Serbs should go back to Carpathian mountains,US americans should go back to Europe,and all similar. That is ridiculous,isn't it? Let us happily await for the future couple of weeks, and together celebrate the independence of the newest state in the World soon! Cheers

No Kresinik, i don't compare Kosovo to the US because we learn from our mistakes and i don't think Kosovo will not learn from the past as well. I believe the majority of Kosovo was christian before the ottomans came and if you did not make an alliance with then why are the majority in kosovo converted to islam? Islam was not here before the Ottoman came here. So can someone tell me why so many people converted? Like the commenters said before i don't believe there will be independence like everyone has been told. Do you think the security council will agree to this. I hope they will be able to figure out how to convince Russia and China. I believe this will be the last comment from me concerning this subject. We will see what the outcome will be. First they said no more negoitions and now open to more talks. No the cubans and hispanics won't demand independence because they will be shown the door. And for the albanians i truly hope everyone will get something out of this. Not all albanians are not like some of commenters. They are good people trying to get ahead in life but you have those who will say anything to make a buck at the expense of others.

jovan
Since, obviously you don't know what a metaphore is, I'll put it in another way...
Foreign powers especialy USA are not going to let Serbia rule Kosova/o again for one simple reason.
Knowing Serbia's history of violence against other nations and SRS being the most powerful political party, who is to say that if they climb to power (maybe not in these elections but next ones), they won't try to finish S.M.'s plan and than back to where we started.
It's just too risky of a solution. All that effort they made with the war just so they can leave it to chance, in hope that Serbia will change. It's just too risky of a solution and doesn't make any sense.

@beck:

I just know what your intention was, but, you didn´t get my point.

If you wanted to use a metaphor, you have just done it wrong.
a metaphor casts a first subject as being or equal to a second subject in some way, what here simply is not the case.
if you really think that familiar relations are comparable to the relations between state-related subjects, then I am afraid you did not get it at all.

well, using metaphors seems to be quite difficult..
but I don´t want to convince you.
since this metaphor-lesson serves no purpose and I personally do not expect you to come up with arguments, I won´t comment you furthermore.

Even if negotiations are scheduled, the UN can't force Serbia to do so. After all the Serbs haven't negotiated up till now. However, the UN can impose a settlement that they see fit.

Actually Ahtisaari is right on this point. Right by default that is. It takes 2 sides to talk. If the Albanians won't talk further, how can there possibly be further talks?

Personally I always suspect that Ahtissari thought he only needed to be careful about offending USA and the Albanians. He thought he could easily arm twist Belgrade until he found to his unexpected horror that he had to scale a Russian brick wall to do that.

And I think he can't wait for the proposal release to be over and his mandate ends and he could disappear for good. He certainly didn't expect Moscow to oppose what he had initially thought would be an easy charade of stage-managed "negotiations". He must be so frustrated by now.

Arben, I think you'll find that it is the Serbian side who have been asking for meaningful negotiations to be allowed. Maybe this has been the issue all along no-one has explained the meaning of the word "negotiation" to the ethnic-Albanians ? Is it possible that thare is no word in Albanian that properly translates to the meaning of negotiations? Given that the contact group have stated that it must be acceptable to both parties this would imply that a compromise will take place by both and so I guess the sooner the ethnic-Albanian side realise that this implies independence is off the table the sooner a solution can be found that is acceptable.

Princip,
I think you'll find that nothing is "off the table", including Independence. That is why it is called "negotiations".

Arben, You can't 'negotiate' away the ownership of sovereign land. The various parties can, in this circumstance, negotiate the rights of ALL the people who live there, but that's where it ends. The day that Nato, the UN, the US or the 'international community' hands over land which already belongs to another nation should be a day that we all fear. Where would that sort of action end?

The main argument that serbs are using, is that serbia is a soverign country, and legaly kosovo is part of serbia. True.

But how did kosovo become legaly part of serbia? we don't hear about that very often do we?

In beginning of 20th century Serbia forcefully and violently occupied Kosovo from the Ottoman Empire, agains the wish of local popluation, where at the time it was almost all albanian and non-serb. Kosovo was recognised as part of Serbia a in 1913 at conferece of
London by European countries as a 'reward' for playing a part in the defeat of ottoman empire amd their subsequent retreat from Europe. Plus serbs did a good propaganda at to how albanians are turks, non-humans, blah blah blah.

The only agrument that serbs had was that kosovo was their birthplace (not true), and that they built some stupid churches 5 or 6 centuries before that!! So what? Rome and British Empire occupied the whole world. They built many monument, cities everywhere, and lot of roman and british people where living all around the world. Does it mean that Inda or South Africa should belong to UK? Does is mean that some parts of Egypt should belong to macedonians because A. the Great built Alexandria? Or let Italy claim the whole Europe.

Serbia got kosovo because they used illegal means to occupy it, when hardly any serb was living in kosovo (first around the 9th century from the local population even if that wasn't albanian as you claim, and again in 20th). But because of the politics of the time it was recognized as part of serbia in 1913.

Now serbs claim that US and UK and others occupied kosovo illegaly and are tryin to take it. If it was OK in 1913 (almost 0% serbs in kosovo), I'd say its OK now for kosovo to become independent (90% albanians). There goes you legal argument.

If you look at an old map, none of the european countries had the same borders they have today. Things happen - borders change.

As far as you historical argument- albanians have been a majority for at least 5 centuries in kosovo (thats a fact verified by everyone even by serbs), and overall in the last 20 centuries kosovo was under serbian rule for only 3 centuries. so i'd say turks have more claim to kosovo than serbs.

Kate,
It seems to me that your ideas are a bit confused. You say that we should all fear the day that the international community hands over land that already belongs to another nation. My dear, the international community has done that for a very long time now! and Albania more than any other country knows what that means.
But to whom are they giving this land? To Albania, to whom it belongs?
NO! They are giving it back to the people that inhabit that land...and have done so for centuries!
The people (90% of them) demand independence. So what is there to negotiate?

kreshnik, your view of history is warped.

STATEMENT: in the beginning of 20th C Serbia forcefully and violently occupied Kosovo from the Ottoman Empire, against the wish of local popluation, where at the time it was almost all albanian and non-serb.

COMMENT: if you base your arguments upon supporting the anti-european ottoman empire which did nothing more than enslave the south eastern half of europe and caused it to miss the renaissance and enlightenment you are on particularly weak ground. the only occupying force here is the ottomans who were rightfully kicked out and back where they came. i myself cannot believe that you support the ottoman occupation in a sea of peoples who were oppressed by them (and whose support you seek) talk about shooting yourself in the foot! no one support the ottomans. not the people who were occupied for 500 years... and no the people who were terrified of being occupied (austria, italy, spain, et al).

STATEMENT: Kosovo was recognised as part of Serbia a in 1913 at conferece of
London by European countries as a 'reward' for playing a part in the defeat of ottoman empire amd their subsequent retreat from Europe. Plus serbs did a good propaganda at to how albanians are turks, non-humans, blah blah blah.

COMMENT: yes that is true and that is the legal status. tough luck! you seem like you are angry at god or something like that.

Kreshnik wrote....
"they built some stupid churches 5 or 6 centuries before that!!"
Please don't insult..How can you ask for EU entrance with this kind of respect?
I can't even begin to fathom your ignorance.
Perhaps a few more statues of Liberty and Clinton-like street names, and you're a guaranteed EU entrance..

You oversimplify and lie about numbers..If Serbia was an occupier after 1913, then there wouldn't be a single Mosque standing, and there wouldn't be a single Albanian left..
Kosovo is unique. You can't incorporate population numbers, when the area that fluctuated in numbers very frequently. There were no true borders to speak of...

You speak of maps, and Serbian historical claims like it's some sort of ancient chest thumping, meanwhile, while you're the same kind of person that considers yourself Dardanian, Illyrian, or whatever half witted bloodline you call yourself, and you'll dig that up from the grave and hold it high..

Good luck buddy!!!
You'll need it.

Ervin, just because you have the majority does not mean you can make demands. I said earlier in a comment. 90 percent of south Florida is cuban but do they demand independence from the US or the same for Southern California? If the Serbs did not help drive out the ottomans do you think Kosovo would still be the way it is now? No i don't think so. If you make an alliance with the wrong group of course if you lose then you are subject to winners partitions of the spoils of war. So yes there will be more talks until a meaningful settlement is reached. No the albanians won't get everything they want nor will Serbia.

Kreshnik, please don't quit your day job and become a historian. You're trying to reason with the rest of us through knee-jerk comments and lavishly fabricated historical details. First of all, try not to call them "stupid churches". I don't think you'd appreciate it if I called your mosques or whatever you believe in "stupid", nor would you appreciate it if I assumed K-Albanians were nothing more than a bunch of illiterate mountain bumpkins who wouldn't know a pasha from a politician. So right there, you already lost both my interest, and my respect for your opinion.

Secondly, let's not play the numbers game. Your ridiculous claim of there being no Serbs in Kosovo prior to 1913 is simply not true. Don't think you can hoodwink the rest of us in assuming we know nothing of the region. True, many Serb families left Kosovo in 1690, but the Serbian Patriarchate was not abolished by the Ottoman empire until 1755, so SOME Serbs had to have been living there even at late as then. Even if you read Western histories of the region such as Noel Malcolm's "Kosovo: A Short History", you'll find, much to your amazement - and possibly your disappointment - that Serbs have been living in Kosovo for about as long, if not longer than Albanians (who even under the recently glorified "Illyrian Period" never referred to themselves as Albanian). In this regard, Serbs have about as much right to the land as Albanians, so enough with the childish "I WAS HERE FIRST" bantering. Do your homework next time before you decide to shoot from the hip. And again, please don't become a historian. No one would take you seriously, because according to your logic:

1. If an area was yours for 500 years and someone else's for 50, it should belong to you - the others are merely occupiers.

2. If an area was someone else's for 500 years and yours for 50, it should still belong to you because you think you deserve the right to self-determination.

To the Albanian commentators,

your main arguement is that ethnic-Albanians from Kosovo & Metohija cannot live in the same state as Serbs - put me right on that if I am wrong since this is the tone of your comments. If this is the case and the sentiment of your leadership then I am quite certain that the International community - mainly China will veto any suggestion of independence be that whether it is stated or placed between the lines as conditional, supervised or whatever it will be called next. China has issues not merely of Tibet or Taiwan but with the Uighurs who as I am sure you are only too aware of are a minority Muslim group, who want an independent state in Xinjiang province. I assume you are aware that 5 Uighars were given asylum in Albania when the US released them from Guantanamo so I assume you are only too aware why they did not end up in China.

Moreover, the last 8 years have been an opportunity for you to show that you could be a democratic independent state that respects human rights and implemented standards expected and has a policing & judicial system that is credible and ensures the protection of all its citizens - well guess what you failed on all counts of standards - that is why the solution cannot be Independence.

Beyond that such sentiment underling your comment would suggest that you agree with Matthew who comments regulary on population exhange and recognition that Kosovo & Metohija be partitioned - since what is good for the ethnic-Albanians is equally apllicable for the Serbs - hell while we are at don't forget the Roma's and others - each deserve a portion of Kosovo & Metohija. In this scenario all that needs to be deceided is proportions and which piece of land.

I personally do not agree with such sentiment. Moreover, I believe that the ethnic-Albanian leadership has poorly lead it's constituents into the cul-de-sac of xenophobic nationalism. This was true of the Serb pysche of the 90's but the majority have realised that this is a false nationalism - one where your true national identity is degraded and leads to shaming of the national identity. This lead to the loss of Serbian communities in Krajina and large parts of Bosnia & Hercegovina and culminated in the bombardment of 99 - a lesson which has been learnt. Today, the Serbs have a new forged understanding that violence does little to promote ones interest and leads to the damnation of ones identity. They have moved on & it's democracy has matured rapidly over the last few years. Though there are many who might vote for the radicals they will not be the next government. The democratic parties will have a mandate to continue with their principled stance and this will not change as it is now enshrined in the constitution and will protect its territorial integrity through all dialogue.

I hope you can realise that the current direction of the ethnic-Albanian leadership will lead you up the path where you will be ditched so fast that you won't even realise until it is too late. This is why I continually comment that independence will not happen - it is off the tebale when it comes to negotiations and yes the Serbs might not "rule" over the 1.8 million ethnic Albanians in the sense that was shown prior to 99 but that is democracy and you all have your own minds to vote for your local leadership. Howwever, you need to appreciate that this is a 2 way street and that you must equally respect the nation state within which you are a citizen and not of a neighbouring nation. Like Blair said recently "Conform to".

I realise that you are an intelligent group of individuals (some more then others) and I hope that you can think out of the box. It would seem the valley Albanians are realising that integration and promoting their rights by participating in the elections is in their intersts - it confuses me that Ceku promotes this but not for his own consituent. I congratulate all ethnic groups who promote their basic rights but that should not be at the loss of others. Nor should it mean in the 21st Centunary that 15% of Serbian territory is relabeled as a 2nd Albania. The win-win I talk about is the realisation that the real solution lies in open and honest negotiations that lead to a solution both parties agree & one which would be lasting and can create an environment of economic prosperity for all. Win-win does not create another 2nd Albania but ensures stability and economic growth for all the peoples of Serbia - what ever their ethnic background.

I can't wait for the talks to get started so that the charade can be removed and the real talks can at last really begin. Sretan Novi Godina 2007 and for that matter Gezuar Vitin e Ri 2007 for those ethnic-Albanians who might appreciate the comment. May 2007 bring about a new found understanding and all can appreciate that a win-win is possible.

Blag - you say my version of history is warped, but then you come up with no contradictory facts, and you actully agree with my statement that kosovo was given to serbia, because they occupied it and as a 'reward'. Then you say TOUGH LUCK - Ok, when kosovo gets independence all I have to say to you my friend is - TOUGH LUCK.

"If Serbia was an occupier after 1913, then there wouldn't be a single Mosque standing, and there wouldn't be a single Albanian left." - Believe me they did a lot of killing and burning.

I am not supporting ottoman empire, but what I am saying that the local population i.e majority albanians, were agains any occupition by ottomans, serbs, bulgarians or anyone else.

All I am saying that serbia got the borders it has today by war and illegal means, and because of politics at a time they were recognized legally. Same thing is about to happen now. So what goes around comes around. So stop going on about how you have some legal or moral right. you don't.

Mike

first of all the right to Kosovo should not be decided by something that happened centuries ago. Even if the history is more in albnian favour. We should look at current situation and the last century that led to these events. Serbs are the ones that keep refering to medevial kosovo.

Since you refer to Noel Malcolm he also convicingly concludes that ancient alabanians originate from the mountains of west-south Kosovo,north albanian and south montenegro. I.e. albanians have been living in the region before the serbs (this does NOT mean that that area automatically belongs to albanians) and together with the serbs after they settled.All I am saying is that serbs have no more historical right to kosovo than albanians have.Therefore they cannot use that as an argument, and they do not have some eternal right to kosovo. And i never mentioned any Illyrians in my post.

I am not denying that kosovo played a very imoprtant part in medevial serbia, and serbs were probably a majority. But the enthinc balance has shifted in albanian favour and now it is our turn to govern ourselves.It is not our fault that serbs have a low natality rate.

j.ham
"I said earlier in a comment. 90 percent of south Florida is cuban but do they demand independence from the US or the same for Southern California?"

1. And somebody replied to you that Cubans or Mexicans are immigrants to USA and albanians to Kosova are not(some might argue that they are but that's BS).
2. Americans didn't terrorize cubans or mexicans and Serbia did terrorize albanians.
3. Don't embarrass yourself by comparing Serbia to USA. It's just non-comparable.

Just some food for thought. In any normal country, If a parent (Serbia) mistreats and beats their children (Kosova/o), Social Services (NATO) come to the house and take the children away. They give them to foster parents (UN) until they are old enough to be independent (on their own).
That's what's happening to Kosova/o. Since 1912 you've been a parent to Kosova/o, but a very bad one.

"If you make an alliance with the wrong group of course if you lose then you are subject to winners partitions of the spoils of war." - Well, J.Ham, I am afraid Sebia made an alliance with a wrong group in the 90s.

and for the record we never made an alliance with the ottomans.

Krešnik Š (and Ervin from USA),

The Ottomans didn't occupy Kosovo before Serbia. There is a part of history called the Battle of Kosovo 1389, which you should read up on. The Ottomans didn't ask kindly for Kosovo. They overran it, killing Serbians in the process allowing compliant Albanians, who converted to Islam for land benefits under the Ottomans, to spread out across the Ottoman Empire. It was the break up of the Ottoman empire which gave Kosovo back to Serbia. There is term in English...To the victors belong the spoils of war. Since the Ottomans were the losers and Serbia on the winning side, Kosovo was RETURNED to Serbia. Never did it belong to Albania. And while borders have changed in the past, the Helinski Act finalized all the borders in Europe. You may wish for Kosovo to become part of Albania, but short of an unlawful taking of Kosovo, it should never happen.

And more to Ervin, if this is the case, will the USA deliver Texas back to the Mexicans since they have lived there for centuries and were there before the Americans arrived? From reading on American history, Americans moved into Texas and took it from the Mexicans. If this the basis for your opinion? Don't apply standards to Kosovo that you wouldn't apply to your country.

hey kreshnik, who says that the Albanians won´t have the right to govern themselves that´s just what todays serbian government is willing to accept!
the only thing that is not acceptable is the change of borders.
if that is the problem...
there shouldn´t be any problems!

and as to the comment of "beck"
it´s just ridiculous discussin g such an important issue on the basis of mama, papa, social service and whatever you have in mind.that´s not the right approach to that question. it´s just nonserious, immature so to say.

Note: There seem to be two Kreshniks in these forums.

Kreshnik and Kreshnik sh.

Eric

"Krešnik Š" hahaha

"There is term in English...To the victors belong the spoils of war." You lost the war in 1999, now to the victors belongs the spoils of war.

you are such a hyporcrite! its a joke.


"The Ottomans didn't ask kindly for Kosovo. They overran it, killing Serbians " Oh, so when serbs invaded kosovo in beginning of 20th century, they asked the local poplualtion kindly? did they? and they never killed any albanians?

its this serbian hypocrisy that I find very entertaining

Are you suggesting that when serbs settled in balkans they came with sweets and flowers?

Albanians didn't win the war in 99. While you were running, an agreement was reached with NATO to stop hostilities. You can't claim to be a winner when you didn't defeat your enemy. It reminds me of Saddam during the Gulf War. When the Americans stopped before Baghdad, Saddam declared he won only because he wasn't overthrown from power. Is that your definition too?

Why would there be a need to ask the Albanian population? Serbs did not invade. The land was RETURNED.

Well Kreshnik, your response to myself and Blag seems much more tempered than your first comment, but unfortunately does not agree with what you previously said. You told me that we shouldn't base any rights to land on medieval events. I absolutely agree with you, but you still say that Albanians have been living there longer than Serbs, giving them greater rights to the land. It seems like you're contradicting yourself.

Plus, you now say that Albanians and Serbs have as much right to the land as each other. Again, this contradicts your "stupid churches" comment which completely disregards the presence of any one else in the region, as well as matter-of-factly stating that Albanians have the land now and there's nothing anyone else can do about it. Kosovo's history is a shared history between many nationalities; Serbs, Albanians, and others. So if this is what you've been trying to say all along, it got horribly mangled in your first comment by emotional grist and disregard for other ethnic communities.

Guys, please don't write historical treatises in this page. As a reader, I would appreciate it if you keep your comments brief and related to the article.

Lama's comment that 'We cannot negotiate the subject of independence' with Serbia does make sense. You can't have 'meaningful negotiations' if what the two sides want are mutually exclusive things. Therefore it is up to the international community to decide about the fate of Kosovo, and it is most likely that they will respect the demands of the Kosovars.

To Serbian Comentaters.

Don't be deluding yourselfs that Russia or whoever can diminish the will of kosovars for independence. Kosovo will become independent whether you like it or not. Princip,will respond to your comments following Ahtissari's proposal when your fantasising will be undermined.

Happy New Year

Eric

It was NATO (UK & US) that won the war, and led to serb withdrawl. ANd it happens that they want to give us indpendence.

"Serbs did not invade. The land was RETURNED." They did INVADE. Read some history. Are you suggesting that there was no serb forces in Kosovo when it was reconganised as part of serbia? First they invaded, and then because of politics it was recognised.

Mike

I am not contradicting myself. The comment regading the fact that albanians have lived in kosovo longer, was to prove the point that serbs have no more historical right to kosovo then albanians. Therefore they should drop their historical and religious argument.

Albanians today are not asking independence because ' we were there first, or we are Illyrians, or whatever'. It is ridiculous to demand independence, because of something that happened centuries ago!.

Serbs are the ones who argue that because kosovo was important to serbia in medieval times, then it should remain part of serbia (particularly Koshtinica). Its a joke.

Therefore it is up to the international community to decide about the fate of Kosovo, and it is most likely that they will respect the demands of the Kosovars.
(sebastian, 15 January 2007, 18:52)

It is up to the "international community" to decide the fate of Kosovo following international law and precedents and protecting the international soverignty of Serbia as stated in UN resolution 1244, reinforced by Kostunica statements and most recently Putin statements.

Kosovo cannot become independant without the signature of Serbia.

“Matthew who comments regulary on population exhange and recognition that Kosovo & Metohija be partitioned - since what is good for the ethnic-Albanians is equally apllicable for the Serbs - hell while we are at don't forget the Roma's and others - each deserve a portion of Kosovo & Metohija. In this scenario all that needs to be deceided is proportions and which piece of land.”

First and foremost, I would like to point out that my position is negotiation and compromise, not any individual plan in particular. Any ideas and thoughts are more than welcome from either side. I’d like to know what everyone else thinks. I am sure someone else has much better ideas about starting points for negotiation, just hasn’t had the chance to express them yet.

Eh, well I totally agree that there are many inherent flaws in the idea of the right to self determination. However, what I’ve been suggesting isn’t just a population exchange, that would not give us our religious sites.

However, there are two main points to my comments.

First we ought to make a real attempt at negotiations and just throw some ideas around and see if maybe something sticks.

Secondly, I strongly believe Serbia needs to retain our cultural heritage, its not just an issue of who was there first. Some of those areas of Kosovo hold extreme importance to us, and I believe we ought to be able to retain those areas. If we have to pay a price for that (ie Presevo Valley, etc), I personally think almost any sacrifice is worth it. Protection of our population there is also equally as important, but people come and go, our culture and heritage are there and always will be.

Besides lets face it, population exchanges do work if they are done properly. Can you imagine the additional problems and issues Turkey and Greece would be having right now if they hadn’t shifted millions of their population in the past? It wouldn’t be just Cyprus that is an issue now.

And yes, I do feel the Albanians have some legitimate complaints and valid claims. I also believe those Serbs that did in fact engage in crimes against humanity should be held accountable, and that we as Serbs are in the best position to do that (Same goes for the Albanians that committed crimes against us).

However, all that being said, the idea of Kosovo getting independence as a whole freaks me out as much as any Serb here. I believe now is the time to reach out and try to find a compromise solution that in some way gives everyone those things they need most. My solution would allow for Serbs to retain those areas they occupy and those areas where our most important historical sites exist. My solution also gives the Albanians independence in those areas which are not of significant importance to Serbs and allows for them to join with Albania proper.

In any compromise or negotiation one must look at what is willing to give up, and what one really needs. What we need to find is issues in common and points we can agree on, and that is the start of any negotiation. What is the most obvious point in common? The fact that we both have our populations scattered across various other countries where our population lives in the minority and is subject to potential abuses.

If anyone on either side has some other ideas on points in common, or things to compromise on, I’m all ears. So far, all I’ve heard is mostly a discussion of how the Real Politick is going to play out in the International scene. Which in my opinion could still go either way, but is fun to discuss none the less.

The main reason I disagree with such a strategy is that it takes the power out of the hands of those involved, the Serbs and the Albanians, and puts it into the hands of the Big Players, like the EU, US and Russia.

Unfortunately, in recent history, the Serbian leadership has done an incredibly poor job at representing the interests of our people on the International Stage. Croatia did a marvelous job at PR, cleansing their entire country of Serbs and having the international media believe the Serbs voluntarily left. Luckily for the Serbs, the Albanian leadership is nearly as poor in representing their people as well. The Albanians have shown themselves as a whole to be not much smarter in their treatment of minorities and their rights as the Serbians. Had they been as clever as the Croatians, all would be lost already.

So we can refuse to compromise and negotiate and let the international community decide it for us, or maybe we can open a channel of discussion. However, it does seem to me that not enough people are interested in the alternatives, and instead merely want to continue to engage in political maneuvering and currying favors with the big powers.

Whatever happens, we as Serbs need to start taking our heritage in Kosovo seriously, especially those of us living in foreign lands with disposable incomes. We need to invest economically in the area, even if its as simple as vacationing there and getting in touch with our past. Serbian Tourism to our religious sites and the money it brings in just might make the Kosovars see those areas as economic cash cows instead of personal liabilities. People with stable jobs and money have a lot to lose, people who are dirt poor have nothing to lose but their pride. The region has an over abundance of pride already. Improving the economic status of the region will benefit our people and our culture regardless of whether independence is granted or not. Those of us in the foreign Diaspora in better financial situations should consider buying summer homes there in those areas of most importance to us or investing in religious tourism and building it up. Obviously right here and now is the best time to get the best price on property there.

Basically, I’m a pessimist, and unfortunately I do not share your optimism that everything will work out in Serbia’s favor. I think Serbia has gotten punished a lot in the last couple of decades and nothing good has come for Serbia from the International Community as of late. Obviously I think we do have a chance, but I do not think that chance is of a high percentage. Even if it ends in a PR game among the Great Powers, we still need to work on negotiations. If we go that route our best bet is to appear to be cooperating and interested in compromise. While I agree that the Serbian government should take the legal stance that Blag has so thoughtfully expressed with the International Community, however, I do also think that in dealing with the Kosovar government and the Albanians as a whole that compromise and negotiation take place at that level. I see nothing contradictory in pursuing those two positions.

If you carefully read the statements from the person who is in charge to conclude the status results,he only talks about recent history of Kosovo,i.e.since its autonomy was forcefully destroyed.That is how smart people do.If we start talking history,Serbs should go back to Carpathian mountains,US americans should go back to Europe,and all similar. That is ridiculous,isn't it? Let us happily await for the future couple of weeks, and together celebrate the independence of the newest state in the World soon! Cheers

No Kresinik, i don't compare Kosovo to the US because we learn from our mistakes and i don't think Kosovo will not learn from the past as well. I believe the majority of Kosovo was christian before the ottomans came and if you did not make an alliance with then why are the majority in kosovo converted to islam? Islam was not here before the Ottoman came here. So can someone tell me why so many people converted? Like the commenters said before i don't believe there will be independence like everyone has been told. Do you think the security council will agree to this. I hope they will be able to figure out how to convince Russia and China. I believe this will be the last comment from me concerning this subject. We will see what the outcome will be. First they said no more negoitions and now open to more talks. No the cubans and hispanics won't demand independence because they will be shown the door. And for the albanians i truly hope everyone will get something out of this. Not all albanians are not like some of commenters. They are good people trying to get ahead in life but you have those who will say anything to make a buck at the expense of others.

jovan
Since, obviously you don't know what a metaphore is, I'll put it in another way...
Foreign powers especialy USA are not going to let Serbia rule Kosova/o again for one simple reason.
Knowing Serbia's history of violence against other nations and SRS being the most powerful political party, who is to say that if they climb to power (maybe not in these elections but next ones), they won't try to finish S.M.'s plan and than back to where we started.
It's just too risky of a solution. All that effort they made with the war just so they can leave it to chance, in hope that Serbia will change. It's just too risky of a solution and doesn't make any sense.

@beck:

I just know what your intention was, but, you didn´t get my point.

If you wanted to use a metaphor, you have just done it wrong.
a metaphor casts a first subject as being or equal to a second subject in some way, what here simply is not the case.
if you really think that familiar relations are comparable to the relations between state-related subjects, then I am afraid you did not get it at all.

well, using metaphors seems to be quite difficult..
but I don´t want to convince you.
since this metaphor-lesson serves no purpose and I personally do not expect you to come up with arguments, I won´t comment you furthermore.