Kosovo talks could continue

Very enlightening indeed. So the "DRAFT" will be presented in February (to a Serbian govt that has not been formed) and at which point the US are ok with 2 further months of discussions, though the Russians have in the past said the discussion should not be time bound - guess this will be open to negotiation too!!! I wouldn't hold my breath and clearly for real negotiations to occur that allow a new resolution be passed that will be accepted by all will on track record take many months.

Also enlightening Durlot said "this was not a meeting on Kosovo, rather a meeting that considered the PROBLEMS which Germany will face during its EU presidency in the next six months." Indeed the problem is that there will be no imposed solution during the German EU Presidency.

More importantly in July Spain takes over the EU presidency and is also being briefed on the issues that it will face. Like Diguardio said "time is running out" - I would tend to think the time has passed and there will never be a 2nd Albania. So like Blair recently said "Conform to it" and accept that you are citizens of Serbia and integrate not seperate - win-win is possible for all and don't look back at past hatreds but look forward as Europeans and make Serbia better for all its citizens.

Maybe the ethnic-Albanian leadership need to go on a crash course for International Negotiation Skills as it looks like they will need it. I look forward to many comments - Zivela Srbija!

Princip, you are amazing man, you have no manner or critical thinking but a straight forward Serbian nationalist thinking manner. The best of all is that you make assumptions that are deliberately provocative and disillusioned. Yet, you want us Albanians to live like EU citizens? What about another Serbian mass killing in Kosovo once we decide to live again with Serbians? DO you think that Albanians in Kosovo would like to see people like you with a such provocative attitude. Ups, lets change roles, what about you Serbians try to leave like EU citizens in Kosovo. Wake-up call for your Princip, I don't know whether you really live in UK, but if so shame on you, enlighten yourself and be more acceptable. You hard nationalism brought your country where it is these days.

Rroft Kosova

Genc, i believe princip made a point and of course now you think he is a nationialist. Sir, this Kosovo proposal will not happen like magic. A lot more negotiation are forthcoming and you bring up Mass Killings? Is this a veiled threat? sir you are speaking of this because you are angry and the World body is suppose to scared. No i don't think so, I wonder why Nato is still there and has made plans to deploy more troops to Kosovo in case of another mass demostration and of course NATO will crack down on your guys once again and put the status back another 1 year. Genc, i know all albanians do not think like you and i believe that there are some that realize now that violence solves nothing. So if you want another Curfew place on the cities which will put a strangled hold on already struggling business go ahead but you will hurt no one but yourselves. Remember 2004 Genc, maybe you were not in Kosovo then but i was.

J. Ham I do not know who you are but is sounds like you are Serb from Kosovo.

You and all other Serbs have to remember that Serbia will never rule Kosovo again, no matter what the final status will be. Kosovo is owned by the people who live there, and all knows who has the majority of population (Albanians 90 %).

Right now the nationalists and radicals have good chances for winning the elections; different polls show that they have over 40 % of the votes, among Kosovo Serbs 90 %.

Albanians in Kosovo are saying unanimously: Independence neither less nor more.

To '????' - why do you assume that English speaking J.Ham is a Serb from Kosovo? Aren't there more international troops and NGOs there now than Serbs?? Your assertion that the land is owned by the people who live there is a nonsense in terms of poltical law. Wouldn't California be partially owned by Mexicans, and Northern Ireland would certainly be owned by the Irish if that were the case. Land ownership is determined by international law, and legally Kosovo still belongs to Serbia.
To Genc - you talk about mass killings in Kosovo and I am the first to believe that every killing before, during or after Nato 'liberated' the territory should be answered for, regardless of the ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator or the victim. But this was by no means one sided. The UN dropped the charge of genocide in Kosovo and the numbers killed by Nato and the KLA have easily equalled the numbers murdered by Serbian paramilitaries and others. I am not talking lightly about this at all. As I said, each horrendous case should be brought to justice. Kosovo Albanians can no longer claim to be the only victims anymore.

'????' you have a real nice name...
Ya OK we are not going to rule our own land just because you said so..
I think Europe is starting to wake up to islamic terrorism.

Kosovo Albanians have lost US leverage

It is plain to see that the US has bigger problems, namely Iraq and Iran where 20,000 more troop surge has been approved by Bush. The last thing on the congress mind is Kosovo and the last thing they need is to provocate Russia over Kosovo. Russia is already irate over the American raids on the Iranian Embassy & needless to say the American people are finally realizing how many Americans are dying in Iraq for nothing.

Under international law and UN resolution 1244 Kosovo territorial integrity is assured under Serbia. Only Serbia can sign Kosovo away which is not going to happen. Substantial autonomy is the best solution for the Kosovar Albanians and respecting minority rights in Kosovo.

Kate J Ham has said earlier the he is a Serb as far as I know.

The Jews were not the only victims during WWII, there died Germans, Gypsies, BUT most of them were Jews.

Ratko, what is your last name? Mladic?

Ratko forget it right now, you are never going to rule Kosovo again. Kosovo is not your land so stop with myths.

Kate, Mexicans are immigrants while Albanians in Kosovo all are born in Kosovo. They have lived there for at least 3000 years.

of course the talks will continue. no one wants to give them independence. they are not viable -- facts are stubborn things. and kosovo albanians will get used to it... and the sun will come up again nthe next morning.... anmd it wont be the end of the world... and there won't be another war, etc, etc, etc.

Talking is always preferable to silence when it comes to settling differences.I recommend all sides to read the famous Dale Carnegie's book 'How to win friends and influence people' and hope that enough people come to realize that is is COOPERATION and COEXISTENCE that will bring a brighter day to this region after so much past darkness.I commend both sides here who have presented their views in a constructive manner but it worries me that there are still people who talk of killings and violence if this or that happens or doesn't happen.Do not use threats or intimidation to argue your point of view because you will not influence ANYTHING in a positive manner.NATO is not afraid of Taliban killers and it certainly will not be afraid to use force against anybody who reacts in a violent manner towards others in the future regardless of what outcome the staus negotiations produce.

Ratko,

It's HIGH TIME that Europe wakes up to Islamic terrorism and the designs that Islamists have on ALL European territory. Kosovo is just the first step in the process of stealing away land.

I've read all the comments, and the Serbs and Serb supporters (or anti-independence camp, whatever you want to call them), have the sounder arguments. The Albanian responses were emotional, irrational, and also faulty. Don't conclude political sentiment among K-Serbs as anything indicative of Serbian sentiment. Yes, SRS support may run high in Kosovo because of the security threats (yes, it's true, Serbs are threatened by Albanians. Hard to believe since they want us to believe they're such a docile people), but I wouldn't put much stock in a Radical-Nationalist win in Belgrade. At the same time, most people here know that Belgrade will never control Kosovo directly again. The politicians themselves are offering the broadest autonomy possible, so the "wake up calls" we're supposed to get are already obvious.

My prediction of Ahtisaari's proposal: Kosovo become an EU protectorate. Pristina becomes heavily decentralized and under the complete auspices of Brussels. Serbian enclaves exist under dual administration - Brussels and Belgrade (for non-political issues). Neither side is going to get what they truly want.

Guys, don't argue. We all know, Kosovo is going to be independent. The only question is HOW it will become independent. So all these maneuvres are done to try to find the best way to make Kosovo independent and find a face-saving strategy for Serbia.

Of course they will!!! What choice do Albanians really have? They shot themselves on the leg not acepting the autonomy in a democratic Serbia. I wouldn't be surprised if Ahtisari's proposal is less than what they had under the Tito's constitution of 1974. Blag don't let these guys intimidate you! Things are moving exactly how you've been predicting!

Kosmet will be ours sooner or later!

Sumadinac,

Ratko,
Yup, Europe is now learning about the islamic threat. Good thing the Serbs kept them at bay, especially killing their women and children so they wouldn't outnumber them. We need Serbia's great ethnic cleansing tactics.

Princip,
I am quite appalled that no one has responded to your fabrications. Yet again I am new and maybe people here have gotten used to ignoring you.

By the way, the US wants only 2 more weeks of negotiations and not 2 months like you claim. Ahtisaari is due to present his proposal on the 26th of January (or at the end of the month). February will be a deciding month.
Even though the Kosovo negotiating team has refused further talks, if such talks continue, they will be there to only settle technical issues.

INTRNATIONAL LAW
In 1995 half of Bosnia, 49% of its territory, went to Republica Serbska.
258 thousand km2 , over 2.5 times larger than Kosova, a new entity was created, found in an Air Base in Dayton America. Here no UN, SC involvement, basically nothing.
Brute force triumphed over every law.
Ethnic cleansing and murdering hundreds of thousand of Bosnian civilians largely accomplished that territory.

The same campaign started but failed in Kosova in 1999 due to NATO intervention.

THIS IS BREAKING THE LAW NATIONAL/INETRNATIONAL WHATEVER LAW EXITS.
People create laws and countries and not vice versa.
Kosova is establishing its sovereignty internationally (as first alternative of good will) has chosen to go through all the routes required to fulfil its obligation to international law be that UN, SC, NATO, EU.
Those organisations are running Kosova as we speak.

How could Kosova break the international law when is run by the very people (UN), which make international law?

Unless fellow Serbs have created a new organisation parallel to the UN, that we are not aware of.If so you can let us know about you new organisation.

No Mr ???? afraid to even have a name i am not a Serb but an American living in Kosovo who has about 25 albanians who work for me. No i think you are the one who is thinking as a Nationalist, you want Kosovo for yourself and there is no room for discussions. Well sir i think that since they have not granted either independence yet i think again there is more talks to follow. You must be crazy to think that the world will just take a part of another country and just give to the population that has the majority no i don't think so. 90 percent of Southern California is mexican and i don't see the mexican population asking for independence or South florida? Yes they have the majority but they know they will never take a part of the US just like that. Please my goodness people just because you have a majority does not mean you can just take a part of a country. I was told a short story along time ago by a real close friend i have known for 7 years. The person said if you give a person a room to live in and allow them to live there free of charge and if they stay for along time without paying rent and you ask them to leave and they tell you no i have live here this period of time so this is my room and you cannot make me leave. Well to put that into prospective, during WW1 and WW2 Albanina fought on the side of Axis, Germany and Italy. Both times they lost and Albanina lost territory due to the war. So now since crack down in 90's now you believe you should have your own country. Cmon people, everyone signed off on the UN Resolution and now you want your own country. Sorry Genc, Prof Naim and Ahmet that is not going to happen. Mr ???? you accuse me of being a Serb i think sir that is something you have to get over just because i don't support your cause then i am Serb. If all albanians think the way you do Mr???? then Kosovo will always be a part of Serbia. Because you don't want to accept change or compromise. I had my employees who thought just like you and when i explained myself and told to think for yourself instead of listening to those so called leaders telling you that if you protest and riot you will get what you won't wrong answer. So please all who read this don't always listen to those think they know everything. My guys saw the light and they are no longer extremeist as alot of the Serbs think. Reason why is i also have Serbs who work for me and they learned they are not like what the people say on both sides of the border. They learned to work together if they can do it and not kill each other then all people can do it.

People in Kosova are “sick “of this situation , Economically, politically, and socially ,and you guys are not helping with these ideas .Serbians as well Albanians and other communities that live in Kosovo ,they want to have a good life ,they want to have something that most of you guys here in this “chat room” already have . No matter what the status of Kosovo will be ,all the communities will have to join the elected government of Kosovo ,So the Serbians shouldn’t feel less Serb only because they think for better life, and decide not to listen to Belgrade .You Guys do not like the Serbians that live in Kosova,otherwise you would think and act differently ,but all what you do is, inspire hate .There is no need for history lecture ,everybody who finished the elementary school knows when Slavic came in Balkan .Some guys go back all the way to 9 century ,and I never understood since you go all the way there why do you stop at 9th century ,why don’t you go further ?.You princip Kate ,I thing you guys should have a medical check-up ,something is wrong with all this hate in you

Mr. Princip, I understand that u r a serb ando taken in consideration your attitude towards Kosova issue, u as well as all the serbs think the same, no matter what the reality is.
If such a negotiationes mentioned by international community will be continued, the same ones are just a formaly ones, because the Kosova issue will be solved as soon and of course it will be the independence.

J. Ham,
Let me point out some facts concerning Kosova and itS possible Independence.

1. NATO bombed Serbia for not signing the Rambouilett Agreement and refusing to halt the attempted ethnic cleansing of Albanians.

2. As a result of the NATO bombing Serbia was badly damaged and consequently humiliated in the eyes of the civilized world.

3. Russia, for all its talk, did nothing to help Serbia.

4. The USA is well aware that it made a permanent enemy of Serbia by siding with the Albanians of Kosova.

5. The USA has made a permanent ally and friend of all Albanians. This can be illustrated by the leasing of Camp Bondsteal for 99 years.
This is the largest American military base outside the USA.

6. The negotiations under Ahtisaari, between Kosova and Serbia lasted for almost a year without any progress. They were deemed a dead end by the US, EU, NATO and the UN.

7. It was agreed by the organizations mentioned in #6 above that in the event of a standoff in negotiations ,as occured, there would be no choice but to impose a settlement.

8. This brings us to here. Athisaari will submit his recommendation in two weeks and the UN will make a decision on Independence for Kosova.

Let me be clear, all else that is discussed here on B92 is pure speculation. One side is going to be very disappointed. I believe that country is the one that cheered when the Twin Towers were hit on Sept. 11, 2001

Checkmate!

Art - There is no fabrication in what I say the US Secretary of State Burns suggested that he felt that there coud be status a month or two after elections
(check the archives for 11 January 2007). If the "DRAFT" was anything other then a DRAFT then why wait???

For the other commentators who do not understand what I say and only turn to hate and threaten violence I ask you to realise that the 90's and before is not the case of today. Yes fellow Serbs have done a great deal that is in my view evil and without reason but you cannot vilify today for wrongs done in the past nor can you label me as a ultra nationalist. Nor is it a black & white picture of Good Vs Bad as you will know only too well the reality is that the Serbs too have been victims of just as equal an evil at the hands of Albanians.

That said 1244 states that Kosovo & Metohija is an integral part of Serbia and the Serbian state has recently reiterated its constitutional claim to it's territory. Ahisarri "draft/proposal" cannot change this without Serbian govt. consent and this is not forthcoming nor will it ever be - mere fact no fabrication!

So what is to be done? Negotiations have to be held to formulate how Kosovo & Metohija retains integraty within Serbia but what stuctures can be created to ensure peace, stability and more importantly a society that is respectful of human rights for all, where each citizen can move in security and without fear, where people learn to respect each other and not hate or look back at the times when only their ethnic group were victims.

There has been issues over racial attacks in the UK and I reiterate what Blair recently said "Conform to it" and accept that you are citizens of Serbia and integrate not seperate - win-win is possible for all and don't look back at past hatred but look forward as Europeans and make Serbia better for all its citizens.

Can't you look forward and see that negotiations leading to a win-win are in the interests of all within Serbia, be that Serb, Albanian, Roma, Hungarian etc...? Cooperation, peace and understanding are the first parts to forming a trust that will allow economic development and anything less will at best be a continuation of the status quo else sadly much worse greater instability and economic regression.

The New Year is here and I do hope that it is the begining of a new era for all in Serbia - let the talks begin!!!

Princip,
I believe you are a person with goodwill in his heart and I appreciate that.
However, let me try to explain it to you on a personal level, i.e. why Albanians want nothing to do with living under Serbian rule ever again.

1. We have taken the Serbs at their word too many times only to be disappointed. Albanians are finished, once and for all, with trusting Serbs. It is like a divorce between two people, at some point it is too late, there is no other way but to seperate, utterly and completely.

2. We wish you well, but Albanians wish to control their own destiny. This is no different from what the Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians and Montenegrans wanted and achieved. Remember, under 1974 constitution Kosova as well as Voyvodina were Federal units, therefore, had the right to secede just as the republics did.

3. The Albanians are unique in their culture and rather different from Slavs in many ways. I'm not going to argue who is right or wrong or who first inhabited Kosova. That is beside the point.

4. It is the 21st century, it is time that Kosova be Independent. This I believe is the true win-win situation that you often refer to. Now is the time to go our seperate ways. Who knows, later we may be able to be friends, but not now. Both Kosova and Serbia should strive to gain membership to the EU at the same time and should cooperate with each other as well as their other neighbors. However, this should be done willingly and not under duress.

I hope you have a better understanding of how most Albanians feel about their Independence. I wish you and all the Serb people well.

To J.Ham,

Listen! To make money is one thing, but to try altering people's way of thinking is something else. So, I assume you are killing two birds with one stone.
Why should I believe you are an American? Just because you can write few lines using slang? Analyzing the content of your writing only a fool would believe that you don't have any affiliation with Serbian ethnicity. Even if you were an American, your knowledge Balkan's history tells me that you have read too many Serbian historical text books.

I am an American too. Who is living here in Costa Ricca. It's true that we Americans are poorly informed what goes on around the world, but when we are, we are fair. According to your ceaseless postings, I realize that in spite your traveling 6 thousand miles and great opportunity to learn the truth, unfortunately, you have remained uninformed.

Greetings from San Jose,

Arben,

your main arguement is that ethnic-Albanians from Kosovo & Metohija cannot live in the same state as Serbs - put me right on that if I am wrong since this is the tone of your comment. If this is the case and the sentiment of your leadership then I am quite certain that the International community - mainly China will veto any suggestion of independence be that whether it is stated or placed between the lines as conditional or supervised. China has issues not merely of Tibet or Taiwan but with the Uighurs who as I am sure you are only too aware of are a minority Muslim group, who want an independent state in Xinjiang province. I assume you are aware that 5 Uighars were given asylum in Albania when the US released them from Guantanamo so I assume you are only too aware why they did not end up in China.

Beyond that such sentiment underling your comment would suggest that you agree with Matthew who comments regualry on population exhange and recognition that Kosovo & Metohija be partitioned - since what is good for the ethnic-Albanians is equally apllicable for the Serbs - hell while we are at don't forget the Roma's and others - each deserve a portion of Kosovo & Metohija. In this scenario all that needs to be deceided is proportions and which piece of land.

I personally do not agree with such sentiment. Moreover, I believe that the ethnic-Albanian leadership has poorly lead it's constituents into the cul-de-sac of xenophobic nationalism. This was true of the Serb pysche of the 90's but the majority have realised that this is a false nationalism - one where your true national identity is degraded and leads to shaming of the national identity. This lead to the loss of Serbian communities in Krajina and large parts of Bosnia & Hercegovina and culminated in the bombardment of 99. Today, the Serbs have a new forged understanding that violence does little to promote ones interest and leads to the damnation of ones identity. They have moved on and though there are many who might vote for the radicals they will not be the next government. The democratic parties will have a mandate to continue with their principled stance and this will not change as it is now enshrined in the constitution.

I hope you can realise that the current direction of the ethnic-Albanian leadership will lead you up the path where you will be ditched so fast that you won't even realise until it is too late. This is why I continually comment that independence will not happen.

I realise that you are an intelligent individual and I hope that you can think out of the box. It would seem the valley Albanians are realising that integration and promoting their rights by participating in the elections is in their intersts - it confuses me that Ceku promotes this but not for his own consituent. I congratulate all ethnic groups who promote their basic rights but that should not be at the loss of others. Nor should it mean in the 21st Centunary that 15% of Serbian territory is relabeled as a 2nd Albania. The win-win I talk about is the realisation that the real solution lies in open and honest negotiations that lead to a solution both parties agree with which would be lasting and can create an environment of economic prosperity for all. Win-win does not create another 2nd Albania but ensures stability and economic growth for all the peoples of Serbia.

I can't wait for the talks to get started so that the charade can be removed and the real talks can at last really begin. Sretan Novi Godina 2007 and for that matter Gezuar Vitin e Ri 2007 for those ethnic-Albanians who might appreciate the comment. May 2007 bring about a new found understanding and all can appreciate that a win-win is possible.

to J. HAM
Just because you live and work in Kosovo doesnt mean that you know the reality of Kosovo... you think you've seen everything for the last 7 years...you aint seen nothing my friend!!! besides you are making a fool of yourself by relating the California-Mexican issues with Kosovo Albanians (if there is really an issue on that) Kosovo has always been home to the Albanian people! dont forget that J. Ham...I am sorry if i offended you...peace out j. ham

I´ll cut it short since I don´t want to write novels again...

Sean!
you just wrote kosovo was always albanian and albanians always lived there...

it quite simple, eiter you don´t know it better, or you are deliberately writing false things.
fact is: you are simply wrong.

kind regards,
J.

RE: Remember, under 1974
constitution Kosova as well as Voyvodina were Federal units,
(Arben Qosja, 14 January 2007, 16:01)

You could not be more mistaken. Tito in 1982 purged over 400 Kosovo Albanian leaders because of demonstrations to give the Albanian Kosovars Federal status, not semi-autonomous status under Serbia which both Vojvodina and Kosovo were.

Get your facts straight.


That is why it is purely ridiculous to make comparisons of Kosovo with FYROM, Montenegro or Slovenia because they did indeed have full republic status, Kosovo did not.

If you analyze what is said here it seems like Serbian side is purposely distorting the reality, which is called "spin". Its is okay, you can take a comment and twist it that reflect you view. Spinning is a normal thing in blogs in this era of internet.
An advice to my Albanian brothers: Do not lose your breaths here this is a Serbian site so is going to reflect their view anyway.
Serbian mentality will never change unless you take all of them one by one out of their “cocoon “called Serbia nationalism which in end does not have any rationale in its bases.
To J Ham: if you were an American business man that have 25 Albanians under you shows that you are a Serbian that either worked in Kosovo or have some knowledge or if in case you are a Serbian from Chicago that worked with some NGO in Kosove but I guarantee you that you never had 25 Albanians worked for you . Your mentality shows that you like people work for you and under you, that is the REAL PROBLEM WHY THE SERBIAN WILL NEVER WORK AND LIVE WITH ALBANIANS IN A natural AND with no abhorrence for each other.
I worked and lived in Kosove for three years and I had working relationships with Serbians from America. I tied very hard to build more than a working relationship with them but oh, boy it was very hard. The arrogance and bossiness was a common occurrence and my conclusion after a while was that I gave them more than they deserved. Seriously, this is the problem they have. They think that they are better than anybody else is and think of Albanians as they are second-class even though they knew that I had a Master Degree in psychology and working toward my PH.D. This is the way they are taught it is not their fault. Believe what are you saying even though maybe a lie..
Myself I never had any encounter with any Serbian person before that. I knew Ljepa Brena as a sex symbol and what my grandmother from Durres who told me that in FIRST WAR ONE Serbian army came to Durres, Albania and killed pregnant woman with bayonets.
How could you people ask Kosovars to coexist with you when you have killed them, raped them, closed their schools, businesses took their money, and when the abuse takes days to tell.
So why you Serbians analyze what you have done and them come up with the right conclusions and say it will be better to leave this people alone.
You have done enough bad things to them
The international community is saying
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Very enlightening indeed. So the "DRAFT" will be presented in February (to a Serbian govt that has not been formed) and at which point the US are ok with 2 further months of discussions, though the Russians have in the past said the discussion should not be time bound - guess this will be open to negotiation too!!! I wouldn't hold my breath and clearly for real negotiations to occur that allow a new resolution be passed that will be accepted by all will on track record take many months.

Also enlightening Durlot said "this was not a meeting on Kosovo, rather a meeting that considered the PROBLEMS which Germany will face during its EU presidency in the next six months." Indeed the problem is that there will be no imposed solution during the German EU Presidency.

More importantly in July Spain takes over the EU presidency and is also being briefed on the issues that it will face. Like Diguardio said "time is running out" - I would tend to think the time has passed and there will never be a 2nd Albania. So like Blair recently said "Conform to it" and accept that you are citizens of Serbia and integrate not seperate - win-win is possible for all and don't look back at past hatreds but look forward as Europeans and make Serbia better for all its citizens.

Maybe the ethnic-Albanian leadership need to go on a crash course for International Negotiation Skills as it looks like they will need it. I look forward to many comments - Zivela Srbija!

Princip, you are amazing man, you have no manner or critical thinking but a straight forward Serbian nationalist thinking manner. The best of all is that you make assumptions that are deliberately provocative and disillusioned. Yet, you want us Albanians to live like EU citizens? What about another Serbian mass killing in Kosovo once we decide to live again with Serbians? DO you think that Albanians in Kosovo would like to see people like you with a such provocative attitude. Ups, lets change roles, what about you Serbians try to leave like EU citizens in Kosovo. Wake-up call for your Princip, I don't know whether you really live in UK, but if so shame on you, enlighten yourself and be more acceptable. You hard nationalism brought your country where it is these days.

Rroft Kosova

Genc, i believe princip made a point and of course now you think he is a nationialist. Sir, this Kosovo proposal will not happen like magic. A lot more negotiation are forthcoming and you bring up Mass Killings? Is this a veiled threat? sir you are speaking of this because you are angry and the World body is suppose to scared. No i don't think so, I wonder why Nato is still there and has made plans to deploy more troops to Kosovo in case of another mass demostration and of course NATO will crack down on your guys once again and put the status back another 1 year. Genc, i know all albanians do not think like you and i believe that there are some that realize now that violence solves nothing. So if you want another Curfew place on the cities which will put a strangled hold on already struggling business go ahead but you will hurt no one but yourselves. Remember 2004 Genc, maybe you were not in Kosovo then but i was.

J. Ham I do not know who you are but is sounds like you are Serb from Kosovo.

You and all other Serbs have to remember that Serbia will never rule Kosovo again, no matter what the final status will be. Kosovo is owned by the people who live there, and all knows who has the majority of population (Albanians 90 %).

Right now the nationalists and radicals have good chances for winning the elections; different polls show that they have over 40 % of the votes, among Kosovo Serbs 90 %.

Albanians in Kosovo are saying unanimously: Independence neither less nor more.

To '????' - why do you assume that English speaking J.Ham is a Serb from Kosovo? Aren't there more international troops and NGOs there now than Serbs?? Your assertion that the land is owned by the people who live there is a nonsense in terms of poltical law. Wouldn't California be partially owned by Mexicans, and Northern Ireland would certainly be owned by the Irish if that were the case. Land ownership is determined by international law, and legally Kosovo still belongs to Serbia.
To Genc - you talk about mass killings in Kosovo and I am the first to believe that every killing before, during or after Nato 'liberated' the territory should be answered for, regardless of the ethnicity or nationality of the perpetrator or the victim. But this was by no means one sided. The UN dropped the charge of genocide in Kosovo and the numbers killed by Nato and the KLA have easily equalled the numbers murdered by Serbian paramilitaries and others. I am not talking lightly about this at all. As I said, each horrendous case should be brought to justice. Kosovo Albanians can no longer claim to be the only victims anymore.

'????' you have a real nice name...
Ya OK we are not going to rule our own land just because you said so..
I think Europe is starting to wake up to islamic terrorism.

Kosovo Albanians have lost US leverage

It is plain to see that the US has bigger problems, namely Iraq and Iran where 20,000 more troop surge has been approved by Bush. The last thing on the congress mind is Kosovo and the last thing they need is to provocate Russia over Kosovo. Russia is already irate over the American raids on the Iranian Embassy & needless to say the American people are finally realizing how many Americans are dying in Iraq for nothing.

Under international law and UN resolution 1244 Kosovo territorial integrity is assured under Serbia. Only Serbia can sign Kosovo away which is not going to happen. Substantial autonomy is the best solution for the Kosovar Albanians and respecting minority rights in Kosovo.

Kate J Ham has said earlier the he is a Serb as far as I know.

The Jews were not the only victims during WWII, there died Germans, Gypsies, BUT most of them were Jews.

Ratko, what is your last name? Mladic?

Ratko forget it right now, you are never going to rule Kosovo again. Kosovo is not your land so stop with myths.

Kate, Mexicans are immigrants while Albanians in Kosovo all are born in Kosovo. They have lived there for at least 3000 years.

of course the talks will continue. no one wants to give them independence. they are not viable -- facts are stubborn things. and kosovo albanians will get used to it... and the sun will come up again nthe next morning.... anmd it wont be the end of the world... and there won't be another war, etc, etc, etc.

Talking is always preferable to silence when it comes to settling differences.I recommend all sides to read the famous Dale Carnegie's book 'How to win friends and influence people' and hope that enough people come to realize that is is COOPERATION and COEXISTENCE that will bring a brighter day to this region after so much past darkness.I commend both sides here who have presented their views in a constructive manner but it worries me that there are still people who talk of killings and violence if this or that happens or doesn't happen.Do not use threats or intimidation to argue your point of view because you will not influence ANYTHING in a positive manner.NATO is not afraid of Taliban killers and it certainly will not be afraid to use force against anybody who reacts in a violent manner towards others in the future regardless of what outcome the staus negotiations produce.

Ratko,

It's HIGH TIME that Europe wakes up to Islamic terrorism and the designs that Islamists have on ALL European territory. Kosovo is just the first step in the process of stealing away land.

I've read all the comments, and the Serbs and Serb supporters (or anti-independence camp, whatever you want to call them), have the sounder arguments. The Albanian responses were emotional, irrational, and also faulty. Don't conclude political sentiment among K-Serbs as anything indicative of Serbian sentiment. Yes, SRS support may run high in Kosovo because of the security threats (yes, it's true, Serbs are threatened by Albanians. Hard to believe since they want us to believe they're such a docile people), but I wouldn't put much stock in a Radical-Nationalist win in Belgrade. At the same time, most people here know that Belgrade will never control Kosovo directly again. The politicians themselves are offering the broadest autonomy possible, so the "wake up calls" we're supposed to get are already obvious.

My prediction of Ahtisaari's proposal: Kosovo become an EU protectorate. Pristina becomes heavily decentralized and under the complete auspices of Brussels. Serbian enclaves exist under dual administration - Brussels and Belgrade (for non-political issues). Neither side is going to get what they truly want.

Guys, don't argue. We all know, Kosovo is going to be independent. The only question is HOW it will become independent. So all these maneuvres are done to try to find the best way to make Kosovo independent and find a face-saving strategy for Serbia.

Of course they will!!! What choice do Albanians really have? They shot themselves on the leg not acepting the autonomy in a democratic Serbia. I wouldn't be surprised if Ahtisari's proposal is less than what they had under the Tito's constitution of 1974. Blag don't let these guys intimidate you! Things are moving exactly how you've been predicting!

Kosmet will be ours sooner or later!

Sumadinac,

Ratko,
Yup, Europe is now learning about the islamic threat. Good thing the Serbs kept them at bay, especially killing their women and children so they wouldn't outnumber them. We need Serbia's great ethnic cleansing tactics.

Princip,
I am quite appalled that no one has responded to your fabrications. Yet again I am new and maybe people here have gotten used to ignoring you.

By the way, the US wants only 2 more weeks of negotiations and not 2 months like you claim. Ahtisaari is due to present his proposal on the 26th of January (or at the end of the month). February will be a deciding month.
Even though the Kosovo negotiating team has refused further talks, if such talks continue, they will be there to only settle technical issues.

INTRNATIONAL LAW
In 1995 half of Bosnia, 49% of its territory, went to Republica Serbska.
258 thousand km2 , over 2.5 times larger than Kosova, a new entity was created, found in an Air Base in Dayton America. Here no UN, SC involvement, basically nothing.
Brute force triumphed over every law.
Ethnic cleansing and murdering hundreds of thousand of Bosnian civilians largely accomplished that territory.

The same campaign started but failed in Kosova in 1999 due to NATO intervention.

THIS IS BREAKING THE LAW NATIONAL/INETRNATIONAL WHATEVER LAW EXITS.
People create laws and countries and not vice versa.
Kosova is establishing its sovereignty internationally (as first alternative of good will) has chosen to go through all the routes required to fulfil its obligation to international law be that UN, SC, NATO, EU.
Those organisations are running Kosova as we speak.

How could Kosova break the international law when is run by the very people (UN), which make international law?

Unless fellow Serbs have created a new organisation parallel to the UN, that we are not aware of.If so you can let us know about you new organisation.

No Mr ???? afraid to even have a name i am not a Serb but an American living in Kosovo who has about 25 albanians who work for me. No i think you are the one who is thinking as a Nationalist, you want Kosovo for yourself and there is no room for discussions. Well sir i think that since they have not granted either independence yet i think again there is more talks to follow. You must be crazy to think that the world will just take a part of another country and just give to the population that has the majority no i don't think so. 90 percent of Southern California is mexican and i don't see the mexican population asking for independence or South florida? Yes they have the majority but they know they will never take a part of the US just like that. Please my goodness people just because you have a majority does not mean you can just take a part of a country. I was told a short story along time ago by a real close friend i have known for 7 years. The person said if you give a person a room to live in and allow them to live there free of charge and if they stay for along time without paying rent and you ask them to leave and they tell you no i have live here this period of time so this is my room and you cannot make me leave. Well to put that into prospective, during WW1 and WW2 Albanina fought on the side of Axis, Germany and Italy. Both times they lost and Albanina lost territory due to the war. So now since crack down in 90's now you believe you should have your own country. Cmon people, everyone signed off on the UN Resolution and now you want your own country. Sorry Genc, Prof Naim and Ahmet that is not going to happen. Mr ???? you accuse me of being a Serb i think sir that is something you have to get over just because i don't support your cause then i am Serb. If all albanians think the way you do Mr???? then Kosovo will always be a part of Serbia. Because you don't want to accept change or compromise. I had my employees who thought just like you and when i explained myself and told to think for yourself instead of listening to those so called leaders telling you that if you protest and riot you will get what you won't wrong answer. So please all who read this don't always listen to those think they know everything. My guys saw the light and they are no longer extremeist as alot of the Serbs think. Reason why is i also have Serbs who work for me and they learned they are not like what the people say on both sides of the border. They learned to work together if they can do it and not kill each other then all people can do it.

People in Kosova are “sick “of this situation , Economically, politically, and socially ,and you guys are not helping with these ideas .Serbians as well Albanians and other communities that live in Kosovo ,they want to have a good life ,they want to have something that most of you guys here in this “chat room” already have . No matter what the status of Kosovo will be ,all the communities will have to join the elected government of Kosovo ,So the Serbians shouldn’t feel less Serb only because they think for better life, and decide not to listen to Belgrade .You Guys do not like the Serbians that live in Kosova,otherwise you would think and act differently ,but all what you do is, inspire hate .There is no need for history lecture ,everybody who finished the elementary school knows when Slavic came in Balkan .Some guys go back all the way to 9 century ,and I never understood since you go all the way there why do you stop at 9th century ,why don’t you go further ?.You princip Kate ,I thing you guys should have a medical check-up ,something is wrong with all this hate in you

Mr. Princip, I understand that u r a serb ando taken in consideration your attitude towards Kosova issue, u as well as all the serbs think the same, no matter what the reality is.
If such a negotiationes mentioned by international community will be continued, the same ones are just a formaly ones, because the Kosova issue will be solved as soon and of course it will be the independence.

J. Ham,
Let me point out some facts concerning Kosova and itS possible Independence.

1. NATO bombed Serbia for not signing the Rambouilett Agreement and refusing to halt the attempted ethnic cleansing of Albanians.

2. As a result of the NATO bombing Serbia was badly damaged and consequently humiliated in the eyes of the civilized world.

3. Russia, for all its talk, did nothing to help Serbia.

4. The USA is well aware that it made a permanent enemy of Serbia by siding with the Albanians of Kosova.

5. The USA has made a permanent ally and friend of all Albanians. This can be illustrated by the leasing of Camp Bondsteal for 99 years.
This is the largest American military base outside the USA.

6. The negotiations under Ahtisaari, between Kosova and Serbia lasted for almost a year without any progress. They were deemed a dead end by the US, EU, NATO and the UN.

7. It was agreed by the organizations mentioned in #6 above that in the event of a standoff in negotiations ,as occured, there would be no choice but to impose a settlement.

8. This brings us to here. Athisaari will submit his recommendation in two weeks and the UN will make a decision on Independence for Kosova.

Let me be clear, all else that is discussed here on B92 is pure speculation. One side is going to be very disappointed. I believe that country is the one that cheered when the Twin Towers were hit on Sept. 11, 2001

Checkmate!

Art - There is no fabrication in what I say the US Secretary of State Burns suggested that he felt that there coud be status a month or two after elections
(check the archives for 11 January 2007). If the "DRAFT" was anything other then a DRAFT then why wait???

For the other commentators who do not understand what I say and only turn to hate and threaten violence I ask you to realise that the 90's and before is not the case of today. Yes fellow Serbs have done a great deal that is in my view evil and without reason but you cannot vilify today for wrongs done in the past nor can you label me as a ultra nationalist. Nor is it a black & white picture of Good Vs Bad as you will know only too well the reality is that the Serbs too have been victims of just as equal an evil at the hands of Albanians.

That said 1244 states that Kosovo & Metohija is an integral part of Serbia and the Serbian state has recently reiterated its constitutional claim to it's territory. Ahisarri "draft/proposal" cannot change this without Serbian govt. consent and this is not forthcoming nor will it ever be - mere fact no fabrication!

So what is to be done? Negotiations have to be held to formulate how Kosovo & Metohija retains integraty within Serbia but what stuctures can be created to ensure peace, stability and more importantly a society that is respectful of human rights for all, where each citizen can move in security and without fear, where people learn to respect each other and not hate or look back at the times when only their ethnic group were victims.

There has been issues over racial attacks in the UK and I reiterate what Blair recently said "Conform to it" and accept that you are citizens of Serbia and integrate not seperate - win-win is possible for all and don't look back at past hatred but look forward as Europeans and make Serbia better for all its citizens.

Can't you look forward and see that negotiations leading to a win-win are in the interests of all within Serbia, be that Serb, Albanian, Roma, Hungarian etc...? Cooperation, peace and understanding are the first parts to forming a trust that will allow economic development and anything less will at best be a continuation of the status quo else sadly much worse greater instability and economic regression.

The New Year is here and I do hope that it is the begining of a new era for all in Serbia - let the talks begin!!!

Princip,
I believe you are a person with goodwill in his heart and I appreciate that.
However, let me try to explain it to you on a personal level, i.e. why Albanians want nothing to do with living under Serbian rule ever again.

1. We have taken the Serbs at their word too many times only to be disappointed. Albanians are finished, once and for all, with trusting Serbs. It is like a divorce between two people, at some point it is too late, there is no other way but to seperate, utterly and completely.

2. We wish you well, but Albanians wish to control their own destiny. This is no different from what the Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians and Montenegrans wanted and achieved. Remember, under 1974 constitution Kosova as well as Voyvodina were Federal units, therefore, had the right to secede just as the republics did.

3. The Albanians are unique in their culture and rather different from Slavs in many ways. I'm not going to argue who is right or wrong or who first inhabited Kosova. That is beside the point.

4. It is the 21st century, it is time that Kosova be Independent. This I believe is the true win-win situation that you often refer to. Now is the time to go our seperate ways. Who knows, later we may be able to be friends, but not now. Both Kosova and Serbia should strive to gain membership to the EU at the same time and should cooperate with each other as well as their other neighbors. However, this should be done willingly and not under duress.

I hope you have a better understanding of how most Albanians feel about their Independence. I wish you and all the Serb people well.

To J.Ham,

Listen! To make money is one thing, but to try altering people's way of thinking is something else. So, I assume you are killing two birds with one stone.
Why should I believe you are an American? Just because you can write few lines using slang? Analyzing the content of your writing only a fool would believe that you don't have any affiliation with Serbian ethnicity. Even if you were an American, your knowledge Balkan's history tells me that you have read too many Serbian historical text books.

I am an American too. Who is living here in Costa Ricca. It's true that we Americans are poorly informed what goes on around the world, but when we are, we are fair. According to your ceaseless postings, I realize that in spite your traveling 6 thousand miles and great opportunity to learn the truth, unfortunately, you have remained uninformed.

Greetings from San Jose,

Arben,

your main arguement is that ethnic-Albanians from Kosovo & Metohija cannot live in the same state as Serbs - put me right on that if I am wrong since this is the tone of your comment. If this is the case and the sentiment of your leadership then I am quite certain that the International community - mainly China will veto any suggestion of independence be that whether it is stated or placed between the lines as conditional or supervised. China has issues not merely of Tibet or Taiwan but with the Uighurs who as I am sure you are only too aware of are a minority Muslim group, who want an independent state in Xinjiang province. I assume you are aware that 5 Uighars were given asylum in Albania when the US released them from Guantanamo so I assume you are only too aware why they did not end up in China.

Beyond that such sentiment underling your comment would suggest that you agree with Matthew who comments regualry on population exhange and recognition that Kosovo & Metohija be partitioned - since what is good for the ethnic-Albanians is equally apllicable for the Serbs - hell while we are at don't forget the Roma's and others - each deserve a portion of Kosovo & Metohija. In this scenario all that needs to be deceided is proportions and which piece of land.

I personally do not agree with such sentiment. Moreover, I believe that the ethnic-Albanian leadership has poorly lead it's constituents into the cul-de-sac of xenophobic nationalism. This was true of the Serb pysche of the 90's but the majority have realised that this is a false nationalism - one where your true national identity is degraded and leads to shaming of the national identity. This lead to the loss of Serbian communities in Krajina and large parts of Bosnia & Hercegovina and culminated in the bombardment of 99. Today, the Serbs have a new forged understanding that violence does little to promote ones interest and leads to the damnation of ones identity. They have moved on and though there are many who might vote for the radicals they will not be the next government. The democratic parties will have a mandate to continue with their principled stance and this will not change as it is now enshrined in the constitution.

I hope you can realise that the current direction of the ethnic-Albanian leadership will lead you up the path where you will be ditched so fast that you won't even realise until it is too late. This is why I continually comment that independence will not happen.

I realise that you are an intelligent individual and I hope that you can think out of the box. It would seem the valley Albanians are realising that integration and promoting their rights by participating in the elections is in their intersts - it confuses me that Ceku promotes this but not for his own consituent. I congratulate all ethnic groups who promote their basic rights but that should not be at the loss of others. Nor should it mean in the 21st Centunary that 15% of Serbian territory is relabeled as a 2nd Albania. The win-win I talk about is the realisation that the real solution lies in open and honest negotiations that lead to a solution both parties agree with which would be lasting and can create an environment of economic prosperity for all. Win-win does not create another 2nd Albania but ensures stability and economic growth for all the peoples of Serbia.

I can't wait for the talks to get started so that the charade can be removed and the real talks can at last really begin. Sretan Novi Godina 2007 and for that matter Gezuar Vitin e Ri 2007 for those ethnic-Albanians who might appreciate the comment. May 2007 bring about a new found understanding and all can appreciate that a win-win is possible.

to J. HAM
Just because you live and work in Kosovo doesnt mean that you know the reality of Kosovo... you think you've seen everything for the last 7 years...you aint seen nothing my friend!!! besides you are making a fool of yourself by relating the California-Mexican issues with Kosovo Albanians (if there is really an issue on that) Kosovo has always been home to the Albanian people! dont forget that J. Ham...I am sorry if i offended you...peace out j. ham

I´ll cut it short since I don´t want to write novels again...

Sean!
you just wrote kosovo was always albanian and albanians always lived there...

it quite simple, eiter you don´t know it better, or you are deliberately writing false things.
fact is: you are simply wrong.

kind regards,
J.

RE: Remember, under 1974
constitution Kosova as well as Voyvodina were Federal units,
(Arben Qosja, 14 January 2007, 16:01)

You could not be more mistaken. Tito in 1982 purged over 400 Kosovo Albanian leaders because of demonstrations to give the Albanian Kosovars Federal status, not semi-autonomous status under Serbia which both Vojvodina and Kosovo were.

Get your facts straight.


That is why it is purely ridiculous to make comparisons of Kosovo with FYROM, Montenegro or Slovenia because they did indeed have full republic status, Kosovo did not.

If you analyze what is said here it seems like Serbian side is purposely distorting the reality, which is called "spin". Its is okay, you can take a comment and twist it that reflect you view. Spinning is a normal thing in blogs in this era of internet.
An advice to my Albanian brothers: Do not lose your breaths here this is a Serbian site so is going to reflect their view anyway.
Serbian mentality will never change unless you take all of them one by one out of their “cocoon “called Serbia nationalism which in end does not have any rationale in its bases.
To J Ham: if you were an American business man that have 25 Albanians under you shows that you are a Serbian that either worked in Kosovo or have some knowledge or if in case you are a Serbian from Chicago that worked with some NGO in Kosove but I guarantee you that you never had 25 Albanians worked for you . Your mentality shows that you like people work for you and under you, that is the REAL PROBLEM WHY THE SERBIAN WILL NEVER WORK AND LIVE WITH ALBANIANS IN A natural AND with no abhorrence for each other.
I worked and lived in Kosove for three years and I had working relationships with Serbians from America. I tied very hard to build more than a working relationship with them but oh, boy it was very hard. The arrogance and bossiness was a common occurrence and my conclusion after a while was that I gave them more than they deserved. Seriously, this is the problem they have. They think that they are better than anybody else is and think of Albanians as they are second-class even though they knew that I had a Master Degree in psychology and working toward my PH.D. This is the way they are taught it is not their fault. Believe what are you saying even though maybe a lie..
Myself I never had any encounter with any Serbian person before that. I knew Ljepa Brena as a sex symbol and what my grandmother from Durres who told me that in FIRST WAR ONE Serbian army came to Durres, Albania and killed pregnant woman with bayonets.
How could you people ask Kosovars to coexist with you when you have killed them, raped them, closed their schools, businesses took their money, and when the abuse takes days to tell.
So why you Serbians analyze what you have done and them come up with the right conclusions and say it will be better to leave this people alone.
You have done enough bad things to them
The international community is saying
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.