Ahtisaari with EU officials

i have heard the following is being discussed in Europe.

1. atassarhi's proposal is already considered "dead on arrival"

2. K is currently regarded as a non-viable entity lacking prerequisites of indep. and the administrative capacity to pursue European integration/ reforms and will become an EU-administered territory of Serbia.

3. the word independence will be dropped in the SC and replaced with "greater responsibilities toward self-government in phases."

4. limited external representation will be granted, but no military or UN seat. certain competencies will be in tandem with the EU governor, others will be handled entirely by the EU.

5. in order to alleviate the pressing economic needs, K will receive immediate access to intn'l development funds via EU sponsorship.

6. an EU-directed resettlement program will seek the return of all K refugees.

7. some level of decentralization will be arranged (probably local police and judiciary for Serb municipalities with horizontal linkage btwn municipalities that can benefit from the S education and health systems).

8. enhanced protection of cultural and religious sites and UNESCO world heritage site status will be granted to additional religious sites.

9. belgrade must show good will in reviving economic relations and resolving privatization and property rights isssues.

if it's true... this is very close to "more than autonomy, but less than independence." and if true, it seems the decision has once again been put off until the future... and for now nobody gets everything they want. serbia should take it, b/c it entirely derails the momentum and potential for future indep. and kosovo should take it too b/c if they don't they won't get access to the international development funds.

...and the sun will rise again tommorrow...

blag, it is abvious that you are fabricating everything. it turns out that you are well-informed, even better than many political analists in europe, in the us and suprisingly, even better informed than your president!

Kosova will not be indipendent country because of I like it, or because you hate it, because of this and because of that... Kosova will be indipendent country because this is the only fair and right solution that would bring stability and prosperity in the region. Kosovo will be ind. because in europe there is no place for neo-colonialism any more, and what is more important we deserve te be free nation among among other free nations in the europe...

blag continue with you "textbook-theories"(sidi). The most important thing is that Serbia will NEVER rule KOSOVO again. We do not want anything else.

Return of Serbian refugees? All of them have sold their houses and apartments. Some of them live in Western Europe.

Adi,

guess what 2006 is over (Gregorian calander at least) and no independence so when are you guys going to accept that there could never be a 2nd Albanian state in Europe. The US can't promise something that is not theirs to promise.

Keep up the good work Blag and I guess some of your comments relate to Di Guardi's despetarte cry to UN Secretary Ban Ki-Moon that you linked yesterday.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani2/message/16598

I believe Adi should read to understand that your just rehashing even Diguardi's words for what is likely to be the result of the Ahtisarri "Draft/Proposal". Gregorian 2007 is already proving to be a very good year. Zivela Srbija - Sretan Novi Godina on Sunday when the Julian one starts and let the negotiations begin.

Blag - I must say that your analysis seems like a perfect compromise - neither side wins and neither side loses. I have been a skeptic regarding this whole process as I thought that Metohija would be taken from the Serbs. But, reading DiGuardio's pleas and Biden's incoherrent ramblings, I am now more than ever convinced that Serbia will keep Metohija within its current borders. Serbia may not rule it today, but if it waited 500 years to get it back from the Turks it can wait another 50 years to rule it again.

Blag,

no time to expand, but I've heard different things being discussed in Europe. Anyway, I sense more realism this time. What you've commented is the conditioned, or controlled or name-it-as-you-like independece. Once it rolls, it will be impossible to reverse the situation (it has been irreversible from 1999).

Princip, keep up with mysticism. It has always proved a winning strategy when real things are different (btw, it seems that we others are 2 weeks ahead of the Gregorians).

Happy New Gregorian Year! Happy to hear it will be good for Serbia (hope it will be so in 9 days).

Cheers

Apologize, it seems I've confused Gregorian and Julian Calender in my previous comment. You see, we use only one calender...

Good work Blag.

That deal makes a lot of sense.

Kosovo is Serbia.

Things are progressing nicely, Kocobo it seems, is staying right where she belongs; in Serbia's borders. I'll be celebrating Bozic in Serbian Kocobo next year!

First and foremost, I wanna apologize to the Albanians for what happened to you guys under Milosevic, that was wrong.

However, real negotiations never really happened. We waited years and years for the Standards to be implemented, and that never happened. They just gave up on that and went directly to "negotiations", which of course were never taken seriously.

Both sides in the issue have legitimate needs, and they aren't necessarily in opposition to each other.

We need to sit down and seriously discuss the region.

Those areas of Kosovo without a Serb population or Historical sites of important cultural value should be allowed to join with Albania, as well as some areas of South Serbia. Not allowing K-Albanians to join with Albania proper is BS in my book.

However, Serbia needs to hold onto those areas of Kosovo with a Serbian majority, or truly important religious sites.

Serbs need an area to call Kosovo, to live in our hearts, it is very important to us Serbs spiritually, even 4 generations removed such as I am. We will never give up on Kosovo, we waited 500 years before, we can wait again. To me that Kosovo doesn't need to be what is currently the geographic area of Kosovo, it just means that we need to hold onto some of our most important sites so that we may go there and feel in touch with our heritage.

Albanians need to be allowed to determine their own future, to protect their people and to live in one country. That is a completely legitimate request and they should have that.

We both need to stop the violence, and we both need to seriously talk about the situation and figure out exactly what it is that we want and can settle for. Creating a black hole in continuous limbo is not good for either of our people's. The International Community clearly doesn't understand the Balkan mentality at all. The only people who can solve this issue for real are ourselves.

I know a lot of people suffered terribly, but we need to look to the future and to the next generation and make sure they don't suffer as we did.

genc, on the one hand, you are right, it could lead to something irreversible if prsitina plays its hand well and everything goes perfect.

on the other hand it could lead to nothing if pristina fails in its reforms or proves to be not viable economically.

in the meantime it will NOT be indepependent. it will not be sovereign. it will lack a foreign ministry, a UN seat, and an army.

ultimately, i believe the entity is not viable economically; only a handful of industries worth investment, it lacks qualified, mature business & political leadership; it's politics are too fractious and bogged down in the personal; it lacks across-the-board expertise in many things taken for granted today; and it is geographically and economically reliant upon serbia - making economic colonization unavoidable.

independence talk is 30 years away (if at all). over time, expect the inevitable gravitation of the decentralized municipalities away from pristina and toward belgrade and it's free health, social services, and education.

as serbia prospers expect that a major part of its strategy will be to re-integrate or co-opt K's economy as much as possible. expect it to build out a small infrastructure of physical properties to administer to serbs and that it will incorporate the municipalities and sacred sites around the province as businneses.

Blag,
Face reality, Serbia lost Kosova in 1999.
You should get busy trying to whitewash the impending Serbian loss of Vojvodina and Sanjak.

I do hope your arguement for the aboveY will be more convincing than that of losing Kosova.

Happy Chinese New Year!

The sun will shine much brighter in Kosovo when the EU is forced to pour in billions of euros in order to pacify what will become an increasingly belligerent population who will turn their anger towards the fact that what really matters once the whole status thing is done with is a much higher standard of living.And the EU is the only one who can finance this massive undertaking.MONEY will be king.

Blag,
You shouldn't make claims that can easily be proven to be false.
I'm refering to the fact that it was the Serbs who pleaded with the U.N. to delay the report of Ahtisaari till after the Serb elections on January 21st so as to help the "democrats" win the elections.
You pretend as if the Serbs never asked for the delay.
I'm suprised that no one called you on it, but then again everyone here knows how reliable your utterances are.

There cannot be two Albanian states? Says who?

Don't tell me that's your best argument because I've been hearing it a lot lately.

To john, princip, blag and co,

Guys, I am not here to teach you how to read the history and the modern politics, especially the history. Ne0-colonialism is over. How can you imagine that Serbia can rule Kosovo again after everything happened in ex-yu wars - Kosovo war?!!!

Do not be childish? Serbia to rule Kosovo with 95% Albanian population? Ridiculous!!!


As that smart Serbian politician says (Jovanovich), Kosovo is already independent.

Thanks god!

Adi,

the English have ruled over a 99% Scottish Scotland for 300 years so please don't be naive to think that different ethnic peoples cant live together or does this say little of ethnic Albanian aspirations for the EU?

princip, you r right, scotish people have been ruled by english since many years, but do not confuse UK with serbia. How comes that serbia has been and it is as democratic country as UK?

Besides, scotish people are happy living in the UK, otherwise they r free to decide for their future.

Yes, we will be part of the EU one day, but as an indipendent country. This is our objective.

Have a nice weekend princip!

the albanians are getting nervous. if I was a serbian hardliner this would be a good thing for me. but I am rather sorry, for watching how the albanian nation is duped again by the americans, on which they had based all their hopes.
now you sound like you don´t want to believe it.
in a few weeks we will see the outcome.
regards,
J.

Blag,

you love so much future scenarios, neglecting simple facts of the present. Let me get much further in time, to the next glaciation, when Serbia, Kosovo and many other countries will no longer exist...
You may be right in your analysis, but as I've pointed out more than once, that's not a Serbia vs. Kosovo game. on't think Serbia can colonize Kosovo ecomically; without the recognition it will be impossible for Serbia to invest in Kosovo, that's logical. If Kosovo proves to be unviable (which I don't believe; the fault for the economical stagnation lies mostly on the UN administration and the lack of a clear legislation) other solutions will be sought, rather than its impossible reintegration into Serbia, being that impossible now as in 30 or 50 years. Well, there is yet another possibility of Kosovo and Serbia integrating into each-other: the EU access, as two separate entities, which they are now. Kosovo is not an internal enclave, or a remote island. It lies on a crossroad and could well survive through Albania, Macedonia, Greece (which is very active economically in Kosovo, especially in trading fuel), Montenegro. Acting in anger Serbiaq would lose a market there.
As for the rest, once a new SC resolution is passed, paving the way for the statehood, and the first important countries recognize it, Serbia can do nothing but watch. 1999 is irreversible, many a Serb has understood it.

Kosovo has not been "economically" viable ever since Tito consolidated power in 1945. Further, to appease the Kosovar Albanians, autonomy was granted and most of the Communist leadership in Kosovo were Albanians. Slovenia, Croatia and Serbia continued to finance the backward region and the EU will be doing the same.

i am sick of hearing this "economically viable" argument.

albanians would rather be poor and independent that rich and under serbia's rule.

and if albanians managed to survive during the 90s, i am sure as hell that we will survive in the future.

i have heard the following is being discussed in Europe.

1. atassarhi's proposal is already considered "dead on arrival"

2. K is currently regarded as a non-viable entity lacking prerequisites of indep. and the administrative capacity to pursue European integration/ reforms and will become an EU-administered territory of Serbia.

3. the word independence will be dropped in the SC and replaced with "greater responsibilities toward self-government in phases."

4. limited external representation will be granted, but no military or UN seat. certain competencies will be in tandem with the EU governor, others will be handled entirely by the EU.

5. in order to alleviate the pressing economic needs, K will receive immediate access to intn'l development funds via EU sponsorship.

6. an EU-directed resettlement program will seek the return of all K refugees.

7. some level of decentralization will be arranged (probably local police and judiciary for Serb municipalities with horizontal linkage btwn municipalities that can benefit from the S education and health systems).

8. enhanced protection of cultural and religious sites and UNESCO world heritage site status will be granted to additional religious sites.

9. belgrade must show good will in reviving economic relations and resolving privatization and property rights isssues.

if it's true... this is very close to "more than autonomy, but less than independence." and if true, it seems the decision has once again been put off until the future... and for now nobody gets everything they want. serbia should take it, b/c it entirely derails the momentum and potential for future indep. and kosovo should take it too b/c if they don't they won't get access to the international development funds.

...and the sun will rise again tommorrow...

blag, it is abvious that you are fabricating everything. it turns out that you are well-informed, even better than many political analists in europe, in the us and suprisingly, even better informed than your president!

Kosova will not be indipendent country because of I like it, or because you hate it, because of this and because of that... Kosova will be indipendent country because this is the only fair and right solution that would bring stability and prosperity in the region. Kosovo will be ind. because in europe there is no place for neo-colonialism any more, and what is more important we deserve te be free nation among among other free nations in the europe...

blag continue with you "textbook-theories"(sidi). The most important thing is that Serbia will NEVER rule KOSOVO again. We do not want anything else.

Return of Serbian refugees? All of them have sold their houses and apartments. Some of them live in Western Europe.

Adi,

guess what 2006 is over (Gregorian calander at least) and no independence so when are you guys going to accept that there could never be a 2nd Albanian state in Europe. The US can't promise something that is not theirs to promise.

Keep up the good work Blag and I guess some of your comments relate to Di Guardi's despetarte cry to UN Secretary Ban Ki-Moon that you linked yesterday.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani2/message/16598

I believe Adi should read to understand that your just rehashing even Diguardi's words for what is likely to be the result of the Ahtisarri "Draft/Proposal". Gregorian 2007 is already proving to be a very good year. Zivela Srbija - Sretan Novi Godina on Sunday when the Julian one starts and let the negotiations begin.

Blag - I must say that your analysis seems like a perfect compromise - neither side wins and neither side loses. I have been a skeptic regarding this whole process as I thought that Metohija would be taken from the Serbs. But, reading DiGuardio's pleas and Biden's incoherrent ramblings, I am now more than ever convinced that Serbia will keep Metohija within its current borders. Serbia may not rule it today, but if it waited 500 years to get it back from the Turks it can wait another 50 years to rule it again.

Blag,

no time to expand, but I've heard different things being discussed in Europe. Anyway, I sense more realism this time. What you've commented is the conditioned, or controlled or name-it-as-you-like independece. Once it rolls, it will be impossible to reverse the situation (it has been irreversible from 1999).

Princip, keep up with mysticism. It has always proved a winning strategy when real things are different (btw, it seems that we others are 2 weeks ahead of the Gregorians).

Happy New Gregorian Year! Happy to hear it will be good for Serbia (hope it will be so in 9 days).

Cheers

Apologize, it seems I've confused Gregorian and Julian Calender in my previous comment. You see, we use only one calender...

Good work Blag.

That deal makes a lot of sense.

Kosovo is Serbia.

Things are progressing nicely, Kocobo it seems, is staying right where she belongs; in Serbia's borders. I'll be celebrating Bozic in Serbian Kocobo next year!

First and foremost, I wanna apologize to the Albanians for what happened to you guys under Milosevic, that was wrong.

However, real negotiations never really happened. We waited years and years for the Standards to be implemented, and that never happened. They just gave up on that and went directly to "negotiations", which of course were never taken seriously.

Both sides in the issue have legitimate needs, and they aren't necessarily in opposition to each other.

We need to sit down and seriously discuss the region.

Those areas of Kosovo without a Serb population or Historical sites of important cultural value should be allowed to join with Albania, as well as some areas of South Serbia. Not allowing K-Albanians to join with Albania proper is BS in my book.

However, Serbia needs to hold onto those areas of Kosovo with a Serbian majority, or truly important religious sites.

Serbs need an area to call Kosovo, to live in our hearts, it is very important to us Serbs spiritually, even 4 generations removed such as I am. We will never give up on Kosovo, we waited 500 years before, we can wait again. To me that Kosovo doesn't need to be what is currently the geographic area of Kosovo, it just means that we need to hold onto some of our most important sites so that we may go there and feel in touch with our heritage.

Albanians need to be allowed to determine their own future, to protect their people and to live in one country. That is a completely legitimate request and they should have that.

We both need to stop the violence, and we both need to seriously talk about the situation and figure out exactly what it is that we want and can settle for. Creating a black hole in continuous limbo is not good for either of our people's. The International Community clearly doesn't understand the Balkan mentality at all. The only people who can solve this issue for real are ourselves.

I know a lot of people suffered terribly, but we need to look to the future and to the next generation and make sure they don't suffer as we did.

genc, on the one hand, you are right, it could lead to something irreversible if prsitina plays its hand well and everything goes perfect.

on the other hand it could lead to nothing if pristina fails in its reforms or proves to be not viable economically.

in the meantime it will NOT be indepependent. it will not be sovereign. it will lack a foreign ministry, a UN seat, and an army.

ultimately, i believe the entity is not viable economically; only a handful of industries worth investment, it lacks qualified, mature business & political leadership; it's politics are too fractious and bogged down in the personal; it lacks across-the-board expertise in many things taken for granted today; and it is geographically and economically reliant upon serbia - making economic colonization unavoidable.

independence talk is 30 years away (if at all). over time, expect the inevitable gravitation of the decentralized municipalities away from pristina and toward belgrade and it's free health, social services, and education.

as serbia prospers expect that a major part of its strategy will be to re-integrate or co-opt K's economy as much as possible. expect it to build out a small infrastructure of physical properties to administer to serbs and that it will incorporate the municipalities and sacred sites around the province as businneses.

Blag,
Face reality, Serbia lost Kosova in 1999.
You should get busy trying to whitewash the impending Serbian loss of Vojvodina and Sanjak.

I do hope your arguement for the aboveY will be more convincing than that of losing Kosova.

Happy Chinese New Year!

The sun will shine much brighter in Kosovo when the EU is forced to pour in billions of euros in order to pacify what will become an increasingly belligerent population who will turn their anger towards the fact that what really matters once the whole status thing is done with is a much higher standard of living.And the EU is the only one who can finance this massive undertaking.MONEY will be king.

Blag,
You shouldn't make claims that can easily be proven to be false.
I'm refering to the fact that it was the Serbs who pleaded with the U.N. to delay the report of Ahtisaari till after the Serb elections on January 21st so as to help the "democrats" win the elections.
You pretend as if the Serbs never asked for the delay.
I'm suprised that no one called you on it, but then again everyone here knows how reliable your utterances are.

There cannot be two Albanian states? Says who?

Don't tell me that's your best argument because I've been hearing it a lot lately.

To john, princip, blag and co,

Guys, I am not here to teach you how to read the history and the modern politics, especially the history. Ne0-colonialism is over. How can you imagine that Serbia can rule Kosovo again after everything happened in ex-yu wars - Kosovo war?!!!

Do not be childish? Serbia to rule Kosovo with 95% Albanian population? Ridiculous!!!


As that smart Serbian politician says (Jovanovich), Kosovo is already independent.

Thanks god!

Adi,

the English have ruled over a 99% Scottish Scotland for 300 years so please don't be naive to think that different ethnic peoples cant live together or does this say little of ethnic Albanian aspirations for the EU?

princip, you r right, scotish people have been ruled by english since many years, but do not confuse UK with serbia. How comes that serbia has been and it is as democratic country as UK?

Besides, scotish people are happy living in the UK, otherwise they r free to decide for their future.

Yes, we will be part of the EU one day, but as an indipendent country. This is our objective.

Have a nice weekend princip!

the albanians are getting nervous. if I was a serbian hardliner this would be a good thing for me. but I am rather sorry, for watching how the albanian nation is duped again by the americans, on which they had based all their hopes.
now you sound like you don´t want to believe it.
in a few weeks we will see the outcome.
regards,
J.

Blag,

you love so much future scenarios, neglecting simple facts of the present. Let me get much further in time, to the next glaciation, when Serbia, Kosovo and many other countries will no longer exist...
You may be right in your analysis, but as I've pointed out more than once, that's not a Serbia vs. Kosovo game. on't think Serbia can colonize Kosovo ecomically; without the recognition it will be impossible for Serbia to invest in Kosovo, that's logical. If Kosovo proves to be unviable (which I don't believe; the fault for the economical stagnation lies mostly on the UN administration and the lack of a clear legislation) other solutions will be sought, rather than its impossible reintegration into Serbia, being that impossible now as in 30 or 50 years. Well, there is yet another possibility of Kosovo and Serbia integrating into each-other: the EU access, as two separate entities, which they are now. Kosovo is not an internal enclave, or a remote island. It lies on a crossroad and could well survive through Albania, Macedonia, Greece (which is very active economically in Kosovo, especially in trading fuel), Montenegro. Acting in anger Serbiaq would lose a market there.
As for the rest, once a new SC resolution is passed, paving the way for the statehood, and the first important countries recognize it, Serbia can do nothing but watch. 1999 is irreversible, many a Serb has understood it.

Kosovo has not been "economically" viable ever since Tito consolidated power in 1945. Further, to appease the Kosovar Albanians, autonomy was granted and most of the Communist leadership in Kosovo were Albanians. Slovenia, Croatia and Serbia continued to finance the backward region and the EU will be doing the same.

i am sick of hearing this "economically viable" argument.

albanians would rather be poor and independent that rich and under serbia's rule.

and if albanians managed to survive during the 90s, i am sure as hell that we will survive in the future.