35

Tuesday, 09.01.2007.

12:31

“Kosovo Serbs could move to Bosnia”

Should Kosovo gain independence, Kosovo Serbs could be moved to the Republic of Srpska, a Bosnian lawmaker says.

Izvor: FoNet

“Kosovo Serbs could move to Bosnia” IMAGE SOURCE
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35 Komentari

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John

pre 17 godina

Fatos - to me Agim will be in prison soon - mark my words. There are many Albanians that I would refer to as 'Sir' or 'Mr.' as their dignity, tolerence, and intelligence deserve as such. Unfortunately, mass murders don't get such credibilty from me.

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Jon, your comment is really funny.
Yes, density is measured in kilometers, but in big countries not in Kosovo that has only 10 887 km²
All this that you're saying explains nothing but the fact that albanians have more sex than the other countries that u've mentioned. And one more thing mate Albanians were always a majority in Kosovo.

John, what OSCE report r u talking about. How come Agim is not in prison (for you he is Mr.Ceku)?
If you work in Kosovo than i completely understand you. because if Kosovo is independent than you would have to leave, and where in the world you can get this salary.
cheers

Lazar

pre 17 godina

Warchild talks about Opperation Horseshoe. This is complete fraud that was created to justify the bombing of serbian schools and hospitals, and other stuff too. Germans and Croats created this opperation horseshoe fraud. The first reports of it came in Germany, and the word for horseshoe was written in croatian, not serbian. Noam Chomsky notes this very well in his book.

Massimo, my comment is plausible. Greeks and TUrks did did, and Russians/Poles did it too.

Behar, about 16,000 were moved to Kosovo, not 100,000. The other hundreds of thousands were in Serbia and Vojvodina.

Eric

pre 17 godina

So do the Kosovo Albanians want the Serbs to stay in Kosovo so they have something to complain about? While you should be happy to get rid of your "oppressors", you complain about their leaving? Grow up and stop whining and spewing conspiracy theories. This allegation was made by one of the Bosniak politicians, not the Serbians.

AY

pre 17 godina

Mike,
“Kosovo's Serbs have been the pawn of others for far too long. If they wish to move, it should be by their decision. Collecting "population exchanges" occur only in dictatorships and periods of forced collectivization.”

IMHO it’s clear that a lot of Kosovo Serbs will have to move if Kosovo becomes independent, not that it is insidious Beograde’s plan to move them… The question is where to go. I guess the majority of them will want to go to Serbia proper or to the West as these are safe and stable places. But the West probably won’t accept many of them, so Beograde and Banja Luka arrange to direct the refugees to RS in Bosnia, since it is in both Beograde and Banja Luka interests.

BTW are you by chance “Mike fron NYC”, who participated in Beograde.com forum?

Sidi

pre 17 godina

Dear Lord!
Here we go again with the "Demographic Genocide" mantra. I think Milosevic is smiling in his grave at the fact that there are still people who would use that argument. I will not dignify the above posts with a direct reply. Surely there have to be some Serbs somewhere who can see the lunacy in that particular argument. Vaso Cubrilovic's ghost is alive and well in Serbia.

kreshnik sh.

pre 17 godina

jon

just because kosovo has a higher density does not mean anything. albanians in kosovo .have a much higher natality rate then all other nations in balkans or europe. an average family has at least 4 kids. Also the reason why the density is higher in kosovo than albania is because albania is three times bigger in size. and kosovo has less mountain regions then albanian which means the overall density will be higher. it is not our fault that the average serbian family has only one child maybe two.


To all those that keep saying the if kosovo gets independence than all serbs will be killed or leave! get real!! serbs are in more danger now, so if they were all going to leave they would have done so by now. and if kosovo does not get independence they will remain in danger. They will be much safer in an independent kosovo, because albanians will move on and know they will never fall under the serbian regime again. so no reason to keep hating serbs.

the only reason why serbs might leave kosovo, is not due to security, but to the fact they will not be able to oppress albanians again and treat them like second class citizens in their own country.

jon

pre 17 godina

Fatos,
Of course the density of a country is measured in persons/km². A house you could measure in meter squared but not a country, take a look at Wikipedia. By the way I double checked the density and of Kosovo it is 220 persons/km² and Albania it is 123 persons/km². Serbia is 106 persons/ km², Montenegro 44.9/km², Macedonia 79/km², and Greece 84/km². All of these countries have densities way below 220 persons/km² and as we all know Macedonia and Montenegro are both small countries so they should have similar density to Kosovo however it is not the case because Kosovo has been systematically populated or systematically reproduced since the 1940’s. Now this case is presented my friend Fatos, since as we can see from these facts that it is true that Albanians have done some sort of systematic population generation, how do you expect to live peacefully by the Serbs when you want to dominate them, which is what has happened in Kosovo? This clearly shows that Albanians have achieved dominance in Kosovo, something they have be executing for decades. This does not show me the peaceful co-existence that Kosovo-Albanians claim they want but rather a dominance over the Serbs.

John

pre 17 godina

Hey Fatos!

I guess that threats and intimidation are the norm where you live, but that kind of rhetoric doesn't deter from the truth. Just look at the Human Rights report, the OSCE report, or listen to first hand testimony from Canadian soldiers who saw what Agim did to civilians in the Medak Pocket and you will understand the 'criminal comment'. I just didn't make this stuff up.

In regards to the KPC, I could never get in as I don't have ties to the KLA and I am not a drunk and corrupt Irish beat cop. Otherwise, I would love to police your block.

Your post did not offer anything except threats and denials without any facts. Offer some insight.

behar

pre 17 godina

Strange with these serbian authorities!!! In the summer of 1995 they moved a hundred of thousands serbs from Bosnia and Croatia in Kosovo. Whilst,now they want to move them back(repatriat)in the territory of origin. I wonder, how long will serbs in Kosovo and neighbours countries will tolerate that Belgrade authorities play with their destiny moving them always on the new crisis?

massimo

pre 17 godina

It is interesting to read that in the Balkans, after so many years of war and thousands of dead, right now there are people that recommend to modify the ethnic composition of a certain land by moving people from a place to another (see Lazar's comment).

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Hey John you would be a perfect police officer, becuase you now who comitted the crimes that none knows till now. why don't u get yourself recruited in KPS.

And you Jon, I would really suggest you to learn to write better in English. big population is not measured by kilometer, it's measured by square meter, and it can be big because of a small space (think about it). you should know a lot about kosovo do give these figures and to say that these figures got bigger recently.


Blag, i don't know where do u live, but right know i can tell u that i'm writing this comment together with a serb who is colleague of mine. let me tell u one more thing, you can come in Kosovo whenever you want and none will do anything to you.

And John be carefull what u're saying, because u don't know a anything about those that run Kosovo.

*****, i wish you sweet dreams as you've been having till now. after all, hope is what keeps us alive, isn't it.

All i can say is that this whole thing of moving Serbs is to not forget the profession. It's been 7 years now that Serbs didn't commit any cleansing.

John

pre 17 godina

These Serbs should live in Metohija where their fore-fathers raised them on their ancestoral lands. But, the Albanians with Agim The Red at their helm have made certain that their lives, religion, and existence are in peril if they remain. So, these unfortunate people have to settle in lands where they will not face extinction. Shame on you for saying that people cannot settle in Bosnia because of some past criminals. All of Metohija is now run by criminals. That is what you should be appalled about!

K. Delvinsky

pre 17 godina

I think it's imperative that all the Kosovar Serbs move to Bosnia or any safe territory en masse, or they'll be butchered by the Albanians as soon as Kosovo declares independence.

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

Why ring the bells, the albanians wanted the Serbs out and now they are making plans to leave. Isn't that you guys want Sidi and Ahmet? You complain the Serbs this, the Serbs that when they make plans to leave Kosovo you guys come again crying to the forum. I wonder why?

WarChild

pre 17 godina

This "deal" stinks of irony. Under Operation Horseshoe, ethnically cleansed municipalities in Kosovo would be repopulated by Bosnian Serbs so as to create a buffer zone in the border with Albania. Now that that plan was stopped half-way (Peja was cleansed 99.9%, Gjakova 85%, Prizren had just begun) Serb ultra nationalists want to do it the other way around so as at least to secure the genocidally-cleansed parts of Bosnia.

luciano

pre 17 godina

Free movement of people is a cornerstone right embedded in the EU Charter.Nobody has the right to force any individual to live where he does not feel safe regardless of his ethnic identity.Does Republika Srpska have authority to allow immigration/emmigration on its territory?Do Serbs have a say in how many Croats or Muslims can immigrate/emmigrate from the Federation territory?Somebody enlighten me please.

jon

pre 17 godina

All the Albanians on this forum are accusing Serbs of this and that. However can you explain how in Albanian the population per kilometer is 111 persons in Serbia it is 106 persons and in Kosovo it is 200 persons. Dont you think this is systematic migration or systematic multiplication to gain a majority in a region. It is very unusual the desity of Albania to be 111 persons/km and in Kosovo to be 200 persons/km. The variance here is too great ,almost double, to be a natural event. When you take a look at these facts it seems that there has been an Albanian plan to control the region and once claim it as its own long before Milosevic came along, long before every Serb was consitered a NATIONALIST. I know alot about this region and it is in fact known that in Yugoslavia Albanians in Kosovo did just that. The numbers I mentioned are from an enciclopedia so I am not making them up just go to Wikipedia for more information. It just struck me as very unusual the birth rates between the ALbanians in Kosovo and in Albania.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Kosovo's Serbs have been the pawn of others for far too long. If they wish to move, it should be by their decision. Collecting "population exchanges" occur only in dictatorships and periods of forced collectivization. I have to applaud my Albanian colleagues on this site who appear to agree with that assessment too.

*****

pre 17 godina

ABSOLUTELY OUT of the question! Kosovo is Serbian land and that is where are most historic structures are! to move would only fulfill the wishes of Albanian in Kosovo. This is a very stupid idea indeed. >:(

Lazar

pre 17 godina

There is no future for minorities in Kosovo if Kosovo becomes independent. That's a fact. Personally I think that if there was to be a type of Kosovo breaking off... it will have to be a division of the province, where serbs will get some places which are of immense importance to them(like Pec, Decani, Gracanica, etc), and that the serbs that were forced out should go to these places and to some places in Bosnia, though not all places in Bosnia. Serbs are firmly the majority in places like zvornik or bijelina. We are not firmly the majority in serbian places like sanski most, bijelina, kljuc... we need to send those people there.

It is impossible to divide yugoslavia without moving many people around.

jovan

pre 17 godina

@sidi:

it´so boring to read your agitation...
exchange of population is not a serbian invention, even if you´ve been told so. it simply false...
I´ll leave it to you, to improve your knowledge about history...
or should I mention Greece and Turkey at the end of WWI?


btw: there is no need for them to move, since kosovo will stay what it is, a part of southern Serbia.

blag

pre 17 godina

read btwn the lines: this is a "warning shot" to the west. if it continues on its kosovo path it will set into motion bosnia destabilization. No more one-way streets (independence for all... except serbs)

as for serbs in kosovo.... the k-albanians have shown loud and clear that serbs have no future in a kosovo they run. serbs live in apartheid-like ghettos (except that these are far worse -- you venture out and you get beat up or killed). so why exactly should a serb stay in a province where the majority govt cannot & will not GAUARANTEE movement or safety... let alone discrimination? Why will that change in an indep kosovo?

let us be frank with some facts: not a single murder or disappearance of a serb has been solved in 7.5 yrs (nor will it). Serbs venture out of ghettos in armored personnel carriers under NATO escort (I know of no other place in the world where this transpires). serbs have been thoroughly demonized to the point that the word "serb" cannot be rehabilitated back into society... Nor is there a plan to re-integrate. And it will not end with self-govt.

albanians want a kosovo w/o serbs... or a token amount of serbs to show that they foster multi-culturalism b/c it helps the indep campaign. In fact, none of these new countries foster multiculturalism... nor are they capable of it b/c their very drives to independence were built upon demonization of serbia & serbs. It is rather ironic that the only significantly multi-cultural country in the entire region is serbia (and it will always stay as such).

The report from sarajevo is accurate. Either way you look at it, serbia will get it's "%" in this situation. if the independence drive does not relent.... there will be consequences. serbs will congregate in north kosovo, demand protection, and cause de-facto partition.... and others will set up shop in republika srpska to change the demographic. In fact, a similar movement is under way in montenegro but is not being reported enough. The crocodile tears in the comments above mine are disingenuous because they do not exist for the 700,00 serbs currently residing in serbia proper from slovenia, croatia, bosnia, and kosovo.

Finally, the organized drive to ethnically cleanse kosovo began many years ago... and it wasn't serbs who were doing the cleansing (afterall, the word was invented by serbs to describe what was taking place to them).

Victor

pre 17 godina

I think that the Serbs be moved to Serbia and not cities like Zvornik where Mitar Vasiljevic and his paramilitaries committed so many atrocities, and where the Serb troops have killed 1000s of innocent Muslims. This will be an insult to the memory of all these innocents victims. I hope the Muslims won't let a thing like this happened.

valon

pre 17 godina

yeah yeah Serbian propaganda portrays Albanians as criminals drug dealers narco- traffickers. When serbs are going to wake up from their failed nationalism.
I am still waiting to see the Albanian link in the recent shipment of over 400kilos of cocaine.

"Stanislava Poletan owns the Belgrade-based Makfut company, and is wanted by the Macedonian police on charges of owning the shipment that contained 483 kilos of cocaine, seized on the border between Macedonia and Kosovo."

John

pre 17 godina

Perpetrator named! How would you know where the cocaine originated and who was its owner? Because the police and media have named this criminal as such. The difference being in Serbia and Metohija is that none of the Albanian crimes have ever been solved, or the perpetrators been named. For instance, the bus blast, the 2004 pogroms, and too many others to list.

Gjango

pre 17 godina

Of course this is an allready seen scenario executed by Millosevic earlier and now by his succesors. Not so long ago many serbs from Croatia and BiH started to reside in Kosova, now they are supposed to be back to their homes. I trully feel sorry for these people when I see Serbian politicians playing with them like they are sheep.

????

pre 17 godina

Why move to Bosnia? They should stay in Kosovo and together with Albanians build a democratic state.

I as Kosovar do not want a Kosovo where not everyone has the same rights. Serbs who did not kill and wants to be part of Kosovo are welcome to stay. Actually Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo Albanians have coexisted with each other for many centuries, but nationalists from Serbia (Belgrade) came and destroyed everything. They learned the Kosovo Serbs to hate the Albanians etc. Now they continue to abuse the Kosovo Serbs by telling them to boycott the democratically elected Kosovo authorities.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

This idea of "moving" large portions of populations around as te politicians see fit, is a Serbian invention. It is repulsing to see how these so called politicians already presuposse that the Serbs can not live together with the Albanians, unless the Serbs dominate. I say let the Serbs in Kosovo to decide for themselves whether they want to integrate with the new state of Kosova, or emigrate abroad to Serbia or Bosnia or Australia. Having them "collectively moved" sounds too much like ethnic cleansing.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 17 godina

If this is true about a secret pact between Belgrade and BanjaLuka to move Kosovar Serbs to Republic of Serpska, it ought to ring some bells to International Community.
I truly believe is true because this way in near future they will want R.S to join Serbia proper, because Bosnian Muslims are not being allowed to go back to their homes/properties in that area(villages mentioned on this article).

Ahmet Isufi

pre 17 godina

If this is true about a secret pact between Belgrade and BanjaLuka to move Kosovar Serbs to Republic of Serpska, it ought to ring some bells to International Community.
I truly believe is true because this way in near future they will want R.S to join Serbia proper, because Bosnian Muslims are not being allowed to go back to their homes/properties in that area(villages mentioned on this article).

Sidi

pre 17 godina

This idea of "moving" large portions of populations around as te politicians see fit, is a Serbian invention. It is repulsing to see how these so called politicians already presuposse that the Serbs can not live together with the Albanians, unless the Serbs dominate. I say let the Serbs in Kosovo to decide for themselves whether they want to integrate with the new state of Kosova, or emigrate abroad to Serbia or Bosnia or Australia. Having them "collectively moved" sounds too much like ethnic cleansing.

????

pre 17 godina

Why move to Bosnia? They should stay in Kosovo and together with Albanians build a democratic state.

I as Kosovar do not want a Kosovo where not everyone has the same rights. Serbs who did not kill and wants to be part of Kosovo are welcome to stay. Actually Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo Albanians have coexisted with each other for many centuries, but nationalists from Serbia (Belgrade) came and destroyed everything. They learned the Kosovo Serbs to hate the Albanians etc. Now they continue to abuse the Kosovo Serbs by telling them to boycott the democratically elected Kosovo authorities.

Gjango

pre 17 godina

Of course this is an allready seen scenario executed by Millosevic earlier and now by his succesors. Not so long ago many serbs from Croatia and BiH started to reside in Kosova, now they are supposed to be back to their homes. I trully feel sorry for these people when I see Serbian politicians playing with them like they are sheep.

valon

pre 17 godina

yeah yeah Serbian propaganda portrays Albanians as criminals drug dealers narco- traffickers. When serbs are going to wake up from their failed nationalism.
I am still waiting to see the Albanian link in the recent shipment of over 400kilos of cocaine.

"Stanislava Poletan owns the Belgrade-based Makfut company, and is wanted by the Macedonian police on charges of owning the shipment that contained 483 kilos of cocaine, seized on the border between Macedonia and Kosovo."

John

pre 17 godina

Perpetrator named! How would you know where the cocaine originated and who was its owner? Because the police and media have named this criminal as such. The difference being in Serbia and Metohija is that none of the Albanian crimes have ever been solved, or the perpetrators been named. For instance, the bus blast, the 2004 pogroms, and too many others to list.

Victor

pre 17 godina

I think that the Serbs be moved to Serbia and not cities like Zvornik where Mitar Vasiljevic and his paramilitaries committed so many atrocities, and where the Serb troops have killed 1000s of innocent Muslims. This will be an insult to the memory of all these innocents victims. I hope the Muslims won't let a thing like this happened.

blag

pre 17 godina

read btwn the lines: this is a "warning shot" to the west. if it continues on its kosovo path it will set into motion bosnia destabilization. No more one-way streets (independence for all... except serbs)

as for serbs in kosovo.... the k-albanians have shown loud and clear that serbs have no future in a kosovo they run. serbs live in apartheid-like ghettos (except that these are far worse -- you venture out and you get beat up or killed). so why exactly should a serb stay in a province where the majority govt cannot & will not GAUARANTEE movement or safety... let alone discrimination? Why will that change in an indep kosovo?

let us be frank with some facts: not a single murder or disappearance of a serb has been solved in 7.5 yrs (nor will it). Serbs venture out of ghettos in armored personnel carriers under NATO escort (I know of no other place in the world where this transpires). serbs have been thoroughly demonized to the point that the word "serb" cannot be rehabilitated back into society... Nor is there a plan to re-integrate. And it will not end with self-govt.

albanians want a kosovo w/o serbs... or a token amount of serbs to show that they foster multi-culturalism b/c it helps the indep campaign. In fact, none of these new countries foster multiculturalism... nor are they capable of it b/c their very drives to independence were built upon demonization of serbia & serbs. It is rather ironic that the only significantly multi-cultural country in the entire region is serbia (and it will always stay as such).

The report from sarajevo is accurate. Either way you look at it, serbia will get it's "%" in this situation. if the independence drive does not relent.... there will be consequences. serbs will congregate in north kosovo, demand protection, and cause de-facto partition.... and others will set up shop in republika srpska to change the demographic. In fact, a similar movement is under way in montenegro but is not being reported enough. The crocodile tears in the comments above mine are disingenuous because they do not exist for the 700,00 serbs currently residing in serbia proper from slovenia, croatia, bosnia, and kosovo.

Finally, the organized drive to ethnically cleanse kosovo began many years ago... and it wasn't serbs who were doing the cleansing (afterall, the word was invented by serbs to describe what was taking place to them).

jovan

pre 17 godina

@sidi:

it´so boring to read your agitation...
exchange of population is not a serbian invention, even if you´ve been told so. it simply false...
I´ll leave it to you, to improve your knowledge about history...
or should I mention Greece and Turkey at the end of WWI?


btw: there is no need for them to move, since kosovo will stay what it is, a part of southern Serbia.

Lazar

pre 17 godina

There is no future for minorities in Kosovo if Kosovo becomes independent. That's a fact. Personally I think that if there was to be a type of Kosovo breaking off... it will have to be a division of the province, where serbs will get some places which are of immense importance to them(like Pec, Decani, Gracanica, etc), and that the serbs that were forced out should go to these places and to some places in Bosnia, though not all places in Bosnia. Serbs are firmly the majority in places like zvornik or bijelina. We are not firmly the majority in serbian places like sanski most, bijelina, kljuc... we need to send those people there.

It is impossible to divide yugoslavia without moving many people around.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Kosovo's Serbs have been the pawn of others for far too long. If they wish to move, it should be by their decision. Collecting "population exchanges" occur only in dictatorships and periods of forced collectivization. I have to applaud my Albanian colleagues on this site who appear to agree with that assessment too.

*****

pre 17 godina

ABSOLUTELY OUT of the question! Kosovo is Serbian land and that is where are most historic structures are! to move would only fulfill the wishes of Albanian in Kosovo. This is a very stupid idea indeed. >:(

jon

pre 17 godina

All the Albanians on this forum are accusing Serbs of this and that. However can you explain how in Albanian the population per kilometer is 111 persons in Serbia it is 106 persons and in Kosovo it is 200 persons. Dont you think this is systematic migration or systematic multiplication to gain a majority in a region. It is very unusual the desity of Albania to be 111 persons/km and in Kosovo to be 200 persons/km. The variance here is too great ,almost double, to be a natural event. When you take a look at these facts it seems that there has been an Albanian plan to control the region and once claim it as its own long before Milosevic came along, long before every Serb was consitered a NATIONALIST. I know alot about this region and it is in fact known that in Yugoslavia Albanians in Kosovo did just that. The numbers I mentioned are from an enciclopedia so I am not making them up just go to Wikipedia for more information. It just struck me as very unusual the birth rates between the ALbanians in Kosovo and in Albania.

luciano

pre 17 godina

Free movement of people is a cornerstone right embedded in the EU Charter.Nobody has the right to force any individual to live where he does not feel safe regardless of his ethnic identity.Does Republika Srpska have authority to allow immigration/emmigration on its territory?Do Serbs have a say in how many Croats or Muslims can immigrate/emmigrate from the Federation territory?Somebody enlighten me please.

WarChild

pre 17 godina

This "deal" stinks of irony. Under Operation Horseshoe, ethnically cleansed municipalities in Kosovo would be repopulated by Bosnian Serbs so as to create a buffer zone in the border with Albania. Now that that plan was stopped half-way (Peja was cleansed 99.9%, Gjakova 85%, Prizren had just begun) Serb ultra nationalists want to do it the other way around so as at least to secure the genocidally-cleansed parts of Bosnia.

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

Why ring the bells, the albanians wanted the Serbs out and now they are making plans to leave. Isn't that you guys want Sidi and Ahmet? You complain the Serbs this, the Serbs that when they make plans to leave Kosovo you guys come again crying to the forum. I wonder why?

K. Delvinsky

pre 17 godina

I think it's imperative that all the Kosovar Serbs move to Bosnia or any safe territory en masse, or they'll be butchered by the Albanians as soon as Kosovo declares independence.

John

pre 17 godina

These Serbs should live in Metohija where their fore-fathers raised them on their ancestoral lands. But, the Albanians with Agim The Red at their helm have made certain that their lives, religion, and existence are in peril if they remain. So, these unfortunate people have to settle in lands where they will not face extinction. Shame on you for saying that people cannot settle in Bosnia because of some past criminals. All of Metohija is now run by criminals. That is what you should be appalled about!

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Hey John you would be a perfect police officer, becuase you now who comitted the crimes that none knows till now. why don't u get yourself recruited in KPS.

And you Jon, I would really suggest you to learn to write better in English. big population is not measured by kilometer, it's measured by square meter, and it can be big because of a small space (think about it). you should know a lot about kosovo do give these figures and to say that these figures got bigger recently.


Blag, i don't know where do u live, but right know i can tell u that i'm writing this comment together with a serb who is colleague of mine. let me tell u one more thing, you can come in Kosovo whenever you want and none will do anything to you.

And John be carefull what u're saying, because u don't know a anything about those that run Kosovo.

*****, i wish you sweet dreams as you've been having till now. after all, hope is what keeps us alive, isn't it.

All i can say is that this whole thing of moving Serbs is to not forget the profession. It's been 7 years now that Serbs didn't commit any cleansing.

massimo

pre 17 godina

It is interesting to read that in the Balkans, after so many years of war and thousands of dead, right now there are people that recommend to modify the ethnic composition of a certain land by moving people from a place to another (see Lazar's comment).

behar

pre 17 godina

Strange with these serbian authorities!!! In the summer of 1995 they moved a hundred of thousands serbs from Bosnia and Croatia in Kosovo. Whilst,now they want to move them back(repatriat)in the territory of origin. I wonder, how long will serbs in Kosovo and neighbours countries will tolerate that Belgrade authorities play with their destiny moving them always on the new crisis?

John

pre 17 godina

Hey Fatos!

I guess that threats and intimidation are the norm where you live, but that kind of rhetoric doesn't deter from the truth. Just look at the Human Rights report, the OSCE report, or listen to first hand testimony from Canadian soldiers who saw what Agim did to civilians in the Medak Pocket and you will understand the 'criminal comment'. I just didn't make this stuff up.

In regards to the KPC, I could never get in as I don't have ties to the KLA and I am not a drunk and corrupt Irish beat cop. Otherwise, I would love to police your block.

Your post did not offer anything except threats and denials without any facts. Offer some insight.

jon

pre 17 godina

Fatos,
Of course the density of a country is measured in persons/km². A house you could measure in meter squared but not a country, take a look at Wikipedia. By the way I double checked the density and of Kosovo it is 220 persons/km² and Albania it is 123 persons/km². Serbia is 106 persons/ km², Montenegro 44.9/km², Macedonia 79/km², and Greece 84/km². All of these countries have densities way below 220 persons/km² and as we all know Macedonia and Montenegro are both small countries so they should have similar density to Kosovo however it is not the case because Kosovo has been systematically populated or systematically reproduced since the 1940’s. Now this case is presented my friend Fatos, since as we can see from these facts that it is true that Albanians have done some sort of systematic population generation, how do you expect to live peacefully by the Serbs when you want to dominate them, which is what has happened in Kosovo? This clearly shows that Albanians have achieved dominance in Kosovo, something they have be executing for decades. This does not show me the peaceful co-existence that Kosovo-Albanians claim they want but rather a dominance over the Serbs.

kreshnik sh.

pre 17 godina

jon

just because kosovo has a higher density does not mean anything. albanians in kosovo .have a much higher natality rate then all other nations in balkans or europe. an average family has at least 4 kids. Also the reason why the density is higher in kosovo than albania is because albania is three times bigger in size. and kosovo has less mountain regions then albanian which means the overall density will be higher. it is not our fault that the average serbian family has only one child maybe two.


To all those that keep saying the if kosovo gets independence than all serbs will be killed or leave! get real!! serbs are in more danger now, so if they were all going to leave they would have done so by now. and if kosovo does not get independence they will remain in danger. They will be much safer in an independent kosovo, because albanians will move on and know they will never fall under the serbian regime again. so no reason to keep hating serbs.

the only reason why serbs might leave kosovo, is not due to security, but to the fact they will not be able to oppress albanians again and treat them like second class citizens in their own country.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

Dear Lord!
Here we go again with the "Demographic Genocide" mantra. I think Milosevic is smiling in his grave at the fact that there are still people who would use that argument. I will not dignify the above posts with a direct reply. Surely there have to be some Serbs somewhere who can see the lunacy in that particular argument. Vaso Cubrilovic's ghost is alive and well in Serbia.

AY

pre 17 godina

Mike,
“Kosovo's Serbs have been the pawn of others for far too long. If they wish to move, it should be by their decision. Collecting "population exchanges" occur only in dictatorships and periods of forced collectivization.”

IMHO it’s clear that a lot of Kosovo Serbs will have to move if Kosovo becomes independent, not that it is insidious Beograde’s plan to move them… The question is where to go. I guess the majority of them will want to go to Serbia proper or to the West as these are safe and stable places. But the West probably won’t accept many of them, so Beograde and Banja Luka arrange to direct the refugees to RS in Bosnia, since it is in both Beograde and Banja Luka interests.

BTW are you by chance “Mike fron NYC”, who participated in Beograde.com forum?

Eric

pre 17 godina

So do the Kosovo Albanians want the Serbs to stay in Kosovo so they have something to complain about? While you should be happy to get rid of your "oppressors", you complain about their leaving? Grow up and stop whining and spewing conspiracy theories. This allegation was made by one of the Bosniak politicians, not the Serbians.

Lazar

pre 17 godina

Warchild talks about Opperation Horseshoe. This is complete fraud that was created to justify the bombing of serbian schools and hospitals, and other stuff too. Germans and Croats created this opperation horseshoe fraud. The first reports of it came in Germany, and the word for horseshoe was written in croatian, not serbian. Noam Chomsky notes this very well in his book.

Massimo, my comment is plausible. Greeks and TUrks did did, and Russians/Poles did it too.

Behar, about 16,000 were moved to Kosovo, not 100,000. The other hundreds of thousands were in Serbia and Vojvodina.

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Jon, your comment is really funny.
Yes, density is measured in kilometers, but in big countries not in Kosovo that has only 10 887 km²
All this that you're saying explains nothing but the fact that albanians have more sex than the other countries that u've mentioned. And one more thing mate Albanians were always a majority in Kosovo.

John, what OSCE report r u talking about. How come Agim is not in prison (for you he is Mr.Ceku)?
If you work in Kosovo than i completely understand you. because if Kosovo is independent than you would have to leave, and where in the world you can get this salary.
cheers

John

pre 17 godina

Fatos - to me Agim will be in prison soon - mark my words. There are many Albanians that I would refer to as 'Sir' or 'Mr.' as their dignity, tolerence, and intelligence deserve as such. Unfortunately, mass murders don't get such credibilty from me.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 17 godina

If this is true about a secret pact between Belgrade and BanjaLuka to move Kosovar Serbs to Republic of Serpska, it ought to ring some bells to International Community.
I truly believe is true because this way in near future they will want R.S to join Serbia proper, because Bosnian Muslims are not being allowed to go back to their homes/properties in that area(villages mentioned on this article).

Sidi

pre 17 godina

This idea of "moving" large portions of populations around as te politicians see fit, is a Serbian invention. It is repulsing to see how these so called politicians already presuposse that the Serbs can not live together with the Albanians, unless the Serbs dominate. I say let the Serbs in Kosovo to decide for themselves whether they want to integrate with the new state of Kosova, or emigrate abroad to Serbia or Bosnia or Australia. Having them "collectively moved" sounds too much like ethnic cleansing.

????

pre 17 godina

Why move to Bosnia? They should stay in Kosovo and together with Albanians build a democratic state.

I as Kosovar do not want a Kosovo where not everyone has the same rights. Serbs who did not kill and wants to be part of Kosovo are welcome to stay. Actually Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo Albanians have coexisted with each other for many centuries, but nationalists from Serbia (Belgrade) came and destroyed everything. They learned the Kosovo Serbs to hate the Albanians etc. Now they continue to abuse the Kosovo Serbs by telling them to boycott the democratically elected Kosovo authorities.

Gjango

pre 17 godina

Of course this is an allready seen scenario executed by Millosevic earlier and now by his succesors. Not so long ago many serbs from Croatia and BiH started to reside in Kosova, now they are supposed to be back to their homes. I trully feel sorry for these people when I see Serbian politicians playing with them like they are sheep.

valon

pre 17 godina

yeah yeah Serbian propaganda portrays Albanians as criminals drug dealers narco- traffickers. When serbs are going to wake up from their failed nationalism.
I am still waiting to see the Albanian link in the recent shipment of over 400kilos of cocaine.

"Stanislava Poletan owns the Belgrade-based Makfut company, and is wanted by the Macedonian police on charges of owning the shipment that contained 483 kilos of cocaine, seized on the border between Macedonia and Kosovo."

John

pre 17 godina

Perpetrator named! How would you know where the cocaine originated and who was its owner? Because the police and media have named this criminal as such. The difference being in Serbia and Metohija is that none of the Albanian crimes have ever been solved, or the perpetrators been named. For instance, the bus blast, the 2004 pogroms, and too many others to list.

Victor

pre 17 godina

I think that the Serbs be moved to Serbia and not cities like Zvornik where Mitar Vasiljevic and his paramilitaries committed so many atrocities, and where the Serb troops have killed 1000s of innocent Muslims. This will be an insult to the memory of all these innocents victims. I hope the Muslims won't let a thing like this happened.

blag

pre 17 godina

read btwn the lines: this is a "warning shot" to the west. if it continues on its kosovo path it will set into motion bosnia destabilization. No more one-way streets (independence for all... except serbs)

as for serbs in kosovo.... the k-albanians have shown loud and clear that serbs have no future in a kosovo they run. serbs live in apartheid-like ghettos (except that these are far worse -- you venture out and you get beat up or killed). so why exactly should a serb stay in a province where the majority govt cannot & will not GAUARANTEE movement or safety... let alone discrimination? Why will that change in an indep kosovo?

let us be frank with some facts: not a single murder or disappearance of a serb has been solved in 7.5 yrs (nor will it). Serbs venture out of ghettos in armored personnel carriers under NATO escort (I know of no other place in the world where this transpires). serbs have been thoroughly demonized to the point that the word "serb" cannot be rehabilitated back into society... Nor is there a plan to re-integrate. And it will not end with self-govt.

albanians want a kosovo w/o serbs... or a token amount of serbs to show that they foster multi-culturalism b/c it helps the indep campaign. In fact, none of these new countries foster multiculturalism... nor are they capable of it b/c their very drives to independence were built upon demonization of serbia & serbs. It is rather ironic that the only significantly multi-cultural country in the entire region is serbia (and it will always stay as such).

The report from sarajevo is accurate. Either way you look at it, serbia will get it's "%" in this situation. if the independence drive does not relent.... there will be consequences. serbs will congregate in north kosovo, demand protection, and cause de-facto partition.... and others will set up shop in republika srpska to change the demographic. In fact, a similar movement is under way in montenegro but is not being reported enough. The crocodile tears in the comments above mine are disingenuous because they do not exist for the 700,00 serbs currently residing in serbia proper from slovenia, croatia, bosnia, and kosovo.

Finally, the organized drive to ethnically cleanse kosovo began many years ago... and it wasn't serbs who were doing the cleansing (afterall, the word was invented by serbs to describe what was taking place to them).

jovan

pre 17 godina

@sidi:

it´so boring to read your agitation...
exchange of population is not a serbian invention, even if you´ve been told so. it simply false...
I´ll leave it to you, to improve your knowledge about history...
or should I mention Greece and Turkey at the end of WWI?


btw: there is no need for them to move, since kosovo will stay what it is, a part of southern Serbia.

Lazar

pre 17 godina

There is no future for minorities in Kosovo if Kosovo becomes independent. That's a fact. Personally I think that if there was to be a type of Kosovo breaking off... it will have to be a division of the province, where serbs will get some places which are of immense importance to them(like Pec, Decani, Gracanica, etc), and that the serbs that were forced out should go to these places and to some places in Bosnia, though not all places in Bosnia. Serbs are firmly the majority in places like zvornik or bijelina. We are not firmly the majority in serbian places like sanski most, bijelina, kljuc... we need to send those people there.

It is impossible to divide yugoslavia without moving many people around.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Kosovo's Serbs have been the pawn of others for far too long. If they wish to move, it should be by their decision. Collecting "population exchanges" occur only in dictatorships and periods of forced collectivization. I have to applaud my Albanian colleagues on this site who appear to agree with that assessment too.

*****

pre 17 godina

ABSOLUTELY OUT of the question! Kosovo is Serbian land and that is where are most historic structures are! to move would only fulfill the wishes of Albanian in Kosovo. This is a very stupid idea indeed. >:(

jon

pre 17 godina

All the Albanians on this forum are accusing Serbs of this and that. However can you explain how in Albanian the population per kilometer is 111 persons in Serbia it is 106 persons and in Kosovo it is 200 persons. Dont you think this is systematic migration or systematic multiplication to gain a majority in a region. It is very unusual the desity of Albania to be 111 persons/km and in Kosovo to be 200 persons/km. The variance here is too great ,almost double, to be a natural event. When you take a look at these facts it seems that there has been an Albanian plan to control the region and once claim it as its own long before Milosevic came along, long before every Serb was consitered a NATIONALIST. I know alot about this region and it is in fact known that in Yugoslavia Albanians in Kosovo did just that. The numbers I mentioned are from an enciclopedia so I am not making them up just go to Wikipedia for more information. It just struck me as very unusual the birth rates between the ALbanians in Kosovo and in Albania.

luciano

pre 17 godina

Free movement of people is a cornerstone right embedded in the EU Charter.Nobody has the right to force any individual to live where he does not feel safe regardless of his ethnic identity.Does Republika Srpska have authority to allow immigration/emmigration on its territory?Do Serbs have a say in how many Croats or Muslims can immigrate/emmigrate from the Federation territory?Somebody enlighten me please.

WarChild

pre 17 godina

This "deal" stinks of irony. Under Operation Horseshoe, ethnically cleansed municipalities in Kosovo would be repopulated by Bosnian Serbs so as to create a buffer zone in the border with Albania. Now that that plan was stopped half-way (Peja was cleansed 99.9%, Gjakova 85%, Prizren had just begun) Serb ultra nationalists want to do it the other way around so as at least to secure the genocidally-cleansed parts of Bosnia.

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

Why ring the bells, the albanians wanted the Serbs out and now they are making plans to leave. Isn't that you guys want Sidi and Ahmet? You complain the Serbs this, the Serbs that when they make plans to leave Kosovo you guys come again crying to the forum. I wonder why?

K. Delvinsky

pre 17 godina

I think it's imperative that all the Kosovar Serbs move to Bosnia or any safe territory en masse, or they'll be butchered by the Albanians as soon as Kosovo declares independence.

John

pre 17 godina

These Serbs should live in Metohija where their fore-fathers raised them on their ancestoral lands. But, the Albanians with Agim The Red at their helm have made certain that their lives, religion, and existence are in peril if they remain. So, these unfortunate people have to settle in lands where they will not face extinction. Shame on you for saying that people cannot settle in Bosnia because of some past criminals. All of Metohija is now run by criminals. That is what you should be appalled about!

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Hey John you would be a perfect police officer, becuase you now who comitted the crimes that none knows till now. why don't u get yourself recruited in KPS.

And you Jon, I would really suggest you to learn to write better in English. big population is not measured by kilometer, it's measured by square meter, and it can be big because of a small space (think about it). you should know a lot about kosovo do give these figures and to say that these figures got bigger recently.


Blag, i don't know where do u live, but right know i can tell u that i'm writing this comment together with a serb who is colleague of mine. let me tell u one more thing, you can come in Kosovo whenever you want and none will do anything to you.

And John be carefull what u're saying, because u don't know a anything about those that run Kosovo.

*****, i wish you sweet dreams as you've been having till now. after all, hope is what keeps us alive, isn't it.

All i can say is that this whole thing of moving Serbs is to not forget the profession. It's been 7 years now that Serbs didn't commit any cleansing.

massimo

pre 17 godina

It is interesting to read that in the Balkans, after so many years of war and thousands of dead, right now there are people that recommend to modify the ethnic composition of a certain land by moving people from a place to another (see Lazar's comment).

behar

pre 17 godina

Strange with these serbian authorities!!! In the summer of 1995 they moved a hundred of thousands serbs from Bosnia and Croatia in Kosovo. Whilst,now they want to move them back(repatriat)in the territory of origin. I wonder, how long will serbs in Kosovo and neighbours countries will tolerate that Belgrade authorities play with their destiny moving them always on the new crisis?

John

pre 17 godina

Hey Fatos!

I guess that threats and intimidation are the norm where you live, but that kind of rhetoric doesn't deter from the truth. Just look at the Human Rights report, the OSCE report, or listen to first hand testimony from Canadian soldiers who saw what Agim did to civilians in the Medak Pocket and you will understand the 'criminal comment'. I just didn't make this stuff up.

In regards to the KPC, I could never get in as I don't have ties to the KLA and I am not a drunk and corrupt Irish beat cop. Otherwise, I would love to police your block.

Your post did not offer anything except threats and denials without any facts. Offer some insight.

jon

pre 17 godina

Fatos,
Of course the density of a country is measured in persons/km². A house you could measure in meter squared but not a country, take a look at Wikipedia. By the way I double checked the density and of Kosovo it is 220 persons/km² and Albania it is 123 persons/km². Serbia is 106 persons/ km², Montenegro 44.9/km², Macedonia 79/km², and Greece 84/km². All of these countries have densities way below 220 persons/km² and as we all know Macedonia and Montenegro are both small countries so they should have similar density to Kosovo however it is not the case because Kosovo has been systematically populated or systematically reproduced since the 1940’s. Now this case is presented my friend Fatos, since as we can see from these facts that it is true that Albanians have done some sort of systematic population generation, how do you expect to live peacefully by the Serbs when you want to dominate them, which is what has happened in Kosovo? This clearly shows that Albanians have achieved dominance in Kosovo, something they have be executing for decades. This does not show me the peaceful co-existence that Kosovo-Albanians claim they want but rather a dominance over the Serbs.

kreshnik sh.

pre 17 godina

jon

just because kosovo has a higher density does not mean anything. albanians in kosovo .have a much higher natality rate then all other nations in balkans or europe. an average family has at least 4 kids. Also the reason why the density is higher in kosovo than albania is because albania is three times bigger in size. and kosovo has less mountain regions then albanian which means the overall density will be higher. it is not our fault that the average serbian family has only one child maybe two.


To all those that keep saying the if kosovo gets independence than all serbs will be killed or leave! get real!! serbs are in more danger now, so if they were all going to leave they would have done so by now. and if kosovo does not get independence they will remain in danger. They will be much safer in an independent kosovo, because albanians will move on and know they will never fall under the serbian regime again. so no reason to keep hating serbs.

the only reason why serbs might leave kosovo, is not due to security, but to the fact they will not be able to oppress albanians again and treat them like second class citizens in their own country.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

Dear Lord!
Here we go again with the "Demographic Genocide" mantra. I think Milosevic is smiling in his grave at the fact that there are still people who would use that argument. I will not dignify the above posts with a direct reply. Surely there have to be some Serbs somewhere who can see the lunacy in that particular argument. Vaso Cubrilovic's ghost is alive and well in Serbia.

AY

pre 17 godina

Mike,
“Kosovo's Serbs have been the pawn of others for far too long. If they wish to move, it should be by their decision. Collecting "population exchanges" occur only in dictatorships and periods of forced collectivization.”

IMHO it’s clear that a lot of Kosovo Serbs will have to move if Kosovo becomes independent, not that it is insidious Beograde’s plan to move them… The question is where to go. I guess the majority of them will want to go to Serbia proper or to the West as these are safe and stable places. But the West probably won’t accept many of them, so Beograde and Banja Luka arrange to direct the refugees to RS in Bosnia, since it is in both Beograde and Banja Luka interests.

BTW are you by chance “Mike fron NYC”, who participated in Beograde.com forum?

Eric

pre 17 godina

So do the Kosovo Albanians want the Serbs to stay in Kosovo so they have something to complain about? While you should be happy to get rid of your "oppressors", you complain about their leaving? Grow up and stop whining and spewing conspiracy theories. This allegation was made by one of the Bosniak politicians, not the Serbians.

Lazar

pre 17 godina

Warchild talks about Opperation Horseshoe. This is complete fraud that was created to justify the bombing of serbian schools and hospitals, and other stuff too. Germans and Croats created this opperation horseshoe fraud. The first reports of it came in Germany, and the word for horseshoe was written in croatian, not serbian. Noam Chomsky notes this very well in his book.

Massimo, my comment is plausible. Greeks and TUrks did did, and Russians/Poles did it too.

Behar, about 16,000 were moved to Kosovo, not 100,000. The other hundreds of thousands were in Serbia and Vojvodina.

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Jon, your comment is really funny.
Yes, density is measured in kilometers, but in big countries not in Kosovo that has only 10 887 km²
All this that you're saying explains nothing but the fact that albanians have more sex than the other countries that u've mentioned. And one more thing mate Albanians were always a majority in Kosovo.

John, what OSCE report r u talking about. How come Agim is not in prison (for you he is Mr.Ceku)?
If you work in Kosovo than i completely understand you. because if Kosovo is independent than you would have to leave, and where in the world you can get this salary.
cheers

John

pre 17 godina

Fatos - to me Agim will be in prison soon - mark my words. There are many Albanians that I would refer to as 'Sir' or 'Mr.' as their dignity, tolerence, and intelligence deserve as such. Unfortunately, mass murders don't get such credibilty from me.