29

Thursday, 21.12.2006.

14:19

Weapons seized, officials arrested in Kosovo

Kosovo police (KPS) and KFOR confiscated a large amount of weapons in Glogovac last night.

Izvor: Beta

Weapons seized, officials arrested in Kosovo IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

29 Komentari

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Mike

pre 17 godina

I'll concede the "Mudjahedin" comment Sebastian. I fully know that K-Albanians are not the radicals we see in the Middle East. I knew that before, and I know it now. The statement was made more to augment my comment for another poster than actually believe it to be true.

bill

pre 17 godina

I have read up on the Balkan issue especially the Kosovo issue and the latest report that came out it was published in India Daily that the latest research shows that 2500 from BOTH sides were killed. The earlier estimates were inflated by USA and Germany to run the propaganda machine against the Serbs. Think about it, when NATO started the bombing the number was over 100,000 killed, then it went to 50,000, they 20,000, then 10,000 for the past 5 yrs and finally after research was done by NATO and Spanish govt the final result IS 2,500 killed from both sides. The 10,000 killed from BOTH sides was an estiamte but the findings are 2,500! FACT

Behar

pre 17 godina

To Ida and Ian:
1.Death toll in Kosovo: 12.000 people known as killed and more than 3000 missing.
2.I don't believe that weapon arsenal confiscated was dedicated for Kosovo protection, because after three Albanian wars in FYR, Albanians have potencials and experience that perfectly organise such important logistical activities. Also I'm sure that providing with weapon is already completed. Just remmber weapon embargo in Bosnia: Bosniacs-no weapon source, Serbs-all potencials of Yuogoslav Army.
We are not stupid and mr.Rugova is not anymore alive to claim that for Kosovo protection is enough crying and not fighting.

arianbarbarian

pre 17 godina

There was similar raid and new weapons were found inside trucks with Bulgarian plates. These trucks were supposed to be carrying used weapons, and this is how it was presented to the public in Macedonia by Bulgarian officials, they said that it is as a donation, but my opinion is that this is another example of how easily weapons cross this region borders. Im sure that the final destination of this weapons wouldn’t have been the museum as the Bulgarian official suggested but some underground bunker arms depot waiting to be used.

fatos

pre 17 godina

1 July 2006 | 11:35 | Source: Beta
GORNJI MILANOVAC -- A bomb, gun and revolver were found within the vicinity of a hospital in Gornji Milanovac.

Local police also found about 20 bullets for an automatic rifle. The weapons were found by workers of the Health Centre while they were cleaning the facilities this morning. Gornji Milanovac police have ordered an investigation.

Health Centre worker Ljubisav Jokić told Beta that he was working outside with a rake, near the fence, when he pulled out the bomb which was sitting near his foot and “shined like it was brand new.”



Brian,
Why didn't you place comment on the above listed topic. What ethnic cleansing was planned in Serbia (because according to you there should be).
Mike,
What democracy are you talking about?
Vojvoda,
What threat would this be?

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Guys i really don't know what is your problem. if the weapons would be seized in england what explanation would you give, or in Sweden (which happened just two days ago).
And one more thing;For all those that didn't get it yet, Kosovo independence is a done deal. It's just a matter of time.
And a message to all kosovars, send your greetings card to your friends in Serbia, because from next year you would need to pay extra fees (like sending it to Croatia for example). i hope you'll get it. if not i'm available for extra explanations

qazim doda

pre 17 godina

Somehow I agree with Kreshnik, Serbs are the most responsible people for the commited crimes in Balkans, but I would not consider the serbian people as a criminal people, I think that their politicians were and are criminals. Serbs are very short-minded people, they believe on mitology, communist and radical propaganda. I think that serbs lost every war that they started because they believed on their power and also they did a lots of massacres in civilians.
Nowadays, serbs look smarter and driving their eyes toward the west. I hope that nobody would think on war anymore because they know the consequences from the past.
The arm smugling in Kosova is ilegitimate especialy at this time when Kosova is waiting for the call of final status. The final status would not be the independence only for Albanians , but aslo for the minorities as an multiethnic country with the western culture.
I totally understand that many serbs might be mad at the final status of Kosova because they grew up looking how their regime can kill Albanian civilians and doesn't get punished, but the new reality destroyed their dreams and it is very hard for them to change their mentality so fast. Loosing the war is not bad for that generation, but it is bad for the history which instead of the word golden has to use the word ashes and shame history.
Mike is naming KLA Mujahedeen, I think that he doesn't understand that KLA was not an army driven by religion, the KLA fighters fought for national cause and didn't care about religion, because Albanians have three religions and the religion leaders teach people how to be mrcyfull and love each other instead of stimulating people to commit the crimes on humanity like serbian pravoslav orthodox chuch did with their un-human religious leaders.
Qazim Doda

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

If it is a war everyone wants then it will be. Don't expect the US to come flying to the rescue and do you think the EU will commit forces without the US hell now, the russians will come and keep the peace in Kosovo. Then what a pickle it would be. Let See then it will the the insurrection in Macedonia and NATO will crush that insurgency because Macedonia will be in Nato and don't expect help from Albania because they don't want to be booted out of NATO or ruin there chances of getting into the EU so for those want to be fighters go ahead and start conflicts you will see who will be crying and the doorsteps of enity you want to kick out of KOSOVO THE UN.

Lou

pre 17 godina

Usually don't read english section on this site,but,my God ,you people need to lighten up a little bit,especially Albanians.I live in Canada for the past eleven years and I experienced firsthand beauties of "democracies" in both Bosnia and Serbia from 91-95,so don't tell me about good and bad guys over there,they were all bad,end of story.At least,Serbia slowly tries to built its society in a positive manner,yet ,on the other side Kosovo Albanians still live in a disjointed society,ready to wage another war.Only question this time is against who!?Cheers.

layla

pre 17 godina

I see the Albanians mean business with this message.

They're making an offer the eu simply cannot refuse. Not if they want the eu/nato to continue in the form they now inhabit.

HARDtalk

pre 17 godina

I support Sidi's opinion related to this topic, even though he's not tolerant.
There is a question here: who is really engaged for takig that action of the weapons and against whom is being dedicated?
Or it was supposed to save those weapons till next march ?

sebastian

pre 17 godina

Mike,
I read the entire message. Your choice to use the word KLA Mujahidin is not without reason. You do mean to imply that Albanians and KLA are muslim radicals, when you and all others know very well that's not the case at all. Kosovo Albanians just want to be free in their own country - Kosovo. They don't want to humiliate Serbia, they don't want to destroy Serbia or any other thing.

And, the finding of these weapons is no surprise. Since the war ended, there were a lot of weapons in Kosovo. Although KLA disarmed, the people of Kosovo will never EVER again let the Serbian army come and slaughter them like sheep. That's why they keep weapons. By the way, I know of at least two other peoples that like their weapons: the Swiss and the Americans.

Oliver

pre 17 godina

Ida wrote:” The Kosovo war including all the missing too along with the dead is not even 5,000 - and it includes Serbs and Roma, fighters and civilians, and those killed after NATO took control.”

It is amazing how you sitting in front of your computer can know how many Albanians were killed during the Kosovo War, almost eight years ago. The number is at least 10 000 according to Red Cross, and the UN. You do not have any documentation for what you are saying, since your explanation gives the impression that you were present every place, and all the time which is impossible.

It is revisoism a la David Irving to deny commonly accepted facts.

Alban Castro

pre 17 godina

Sebastian,

It really doesn't matter that you try to discredit the numbers of victims, it matters the "Intention of JNA"

Attempted murder doesn't mean that the victim is dead, yet, the perpetrator, still gets 7 years of prison according to US laws.

Even if your discreditting tactics reduced victim's numbers to a 1000 for the entire Ballkans, you'll have difficulties to have anyone believe that Serbia is innocent.

Madurase hombre!
La verdad ya esta conocida por todo el mundo.

Adios,

Alban Castro,

Tim

pre 17 godina

"But Albin Kurti, a former political prisoner of Serbia, now leader of the Vetvendosja (Self-determination) movement, dismissed the talks and the international presence as a joke at the expense of the Albanians.

"We do not know yet what that (Ahtisaari's) proposal will contain, but we know what it will not contain," said Kurti. "It will not contain foreign and defence ministries and a seat in the UN."
http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_5805--Albanians-Look-To-2007-For-Kosovo-Independence.html

ian

pre 17 godina

Oliver,
I dont know what nationality you are however you need to read a bit more on the war in Bosnia and look at the way the war started. The whole war could have been avoided if USA and Germany didnt get involved, once it started Germany sold weapons to SLovenes and to Croats while USA initially supported Milosevic and sold weapons to the Serbs. Then when USA saw what kind of mess they created the withdrew their support of Milosevic. 200,000 people died but dont think that Serbs were not amongst the dead. Think about what happened in Croatian Kraina, 300,000 Serbs cleansed. Dont think Serbs were not victims. Every civilian was a victim however most Mulims died because Serbs were by far stronger but if you think that Muslims and Croats didnt do the same stuff as the Serbs you are mistaken, it is just that the Serbs were the most powerful so the scale was larger. Bosnians had the mujahaden for them, do you think those people fight with pride?? They are terrorists! I will assume that you are from the USA, just think of how many wars USA has started recently and for what???? For nothing, some BS excuse, first to fight communism and once they got rid of communism as much as they dared to then to fight terrorism. I would like to see the numbers of how many people died in wars USA waged. By the way more people died when USA decited to bomb Serbia then the whole Kosovo conflict all-together. Oliver you are a prime example of how Western propaganda worked in the face of the world. Thanks for being a prime example. In every conflict there is politics, national interests and money involved. The largets USA base in Europe is now in Kosovo which is relatively close proximity to Israel and Middle East.

Erik

pre 17 godina

I think that Albanians are prepared for the worst but hopes for the best.

An I'm not surprised that they build weapon arsenals if you consider the situation they were in in 1997 - 1999.

They got killed and massacred because 99% of the people had no arms because they were civilians and I don't think they will let it happen again.

Kreshnik

pre 17 godina

Ian

The whole war would have been avoided if serbs didn't vote for milosevic and dropped their idea of Greater Serbia.

you said ' Most civilian dead were Muslims beacause serbs were stronger' - Somebody who massacres women and children is not strong, but weak and mentally sick!!

I can't understand why serbs always try to deny the crimes they have commited. Yeah, it is true that other side commited crimes too, but at much lower scale and it does justify why serbs did, especially since they were the ones to start the atrocities.

Also, this BS of Serbia being democratic today is a farse. If they had the chance to invade Kosovo again, they would commit the same crimes and worse. That is why the Radicals are the most popular party in Serbia.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Oliver, you need to inform yourself a little more before you trip over your own logic. According to Freedom House, a respected NGO, Serbia is listed as "Free", while Albanian is only listed as "partly free". Your claim that Albania is more democratic than Serbia is problematic. See for yourself if you don't believe me at www.freedomhouse.org . Don't talk to me about hiding war criminals when warlords, drug dealers and criminal elite roam openly in Pristina and Tirane. I really could care less about these back and forth "my country is cooler than your country" playground boasts that happen here, but if you want to make a credible claim, please back it up with facts.

And the same goes for Sebastian, no one is claiming K-Albanians are a bunch of Muslim fanatics, though some frequent commentators on this site wouldn't mind if it came to that, if only to gain independence at the expense of Serb humiliation. Read the ENTIRE comment before responding to only what you think you read.

3OPAH

pre 17 godina

"blah blah, fight to the death" you better get used to the idea that KOCOBO will NOT get independence because its a strong possibility! And you better pray to whomever it is you pray to, that violence doesnt erupt against the Serbs. Just imagine if Serbian troops are allowed back in to protect the Serbs!

Europe doesnt need another Albania, just look at the mess that country is in.

sebastian

pre 17 godina

I see the right wing is cheering. They use words like KLA Mujahidin, implying that they are muslim radicals. Give it up, your agenda of spreading lies and hate is disclosed, and nobody takes you seriously. Kosovo will be independent, and you can't change it.

ida

pre 17 godina

The number killed has been found to be much lower than 200,000. Instead it is under 100,000 in Bosnia for ALL THREE SIDES and including military.

Experts discovered the same people - particularly fallen Bosnian Muslim soldiers - as being counted several times as civilians too. They were put on civilian lists if they moved around during the war and counted in the civilian reports if they later were killed in battle.

The Kosovo war including all the missing too along with the dead is not even 5,000 - and it includes Serbs and Roma, fighters and civilians, and those killed after NATO took control.

So it is impossible for the number of dead to even be half the 10,000 figure given for Kosovo.

Croatia was mostly Serbs whose population has severely dropped.

Muslims and Croats also killed each other from late 1992 until late February 1994 during their intense war in Bosnia.

Oliver

pre 17 godina

It’s funny to read the comments made by Serbian nationalists on human rights. My question: Who killed almost 200 000 people in Balkans? According to AP, Reuters, ICTY, Wikipedia it was the SERBIAN NATIONALISTS.

3OPAH said: “Just imagine if Serbian troops are allowed back in to protect the Serbs!”

That’s why they want independence, because Serbian nationalists (like you?) dream all the time about going back to Kosovo and kill the rest of the Albanians. Which world do you live in?

3OPAH no matter what happens, Kosovo will always, yes you read right, always govern itself. Even the Serbian proposals say that Kosovo will govern itself and have its own police, fiscal system, parliament (Draskovic).

Albania is much more democratic than Serbian. The only country in Europe giving shelter to mass murders is SERBIA. Mladic, Karadzic. Do you want more?

Mike

pre 17 godina

Oh Sidi, PLEASE. Who's "we" in the picture??? You live in New York. Would you live in Kosovo and give up your cushy life here? Would you join a KLA Mudjaheddin to fight for your cause? You'd pretty much applaud the Albanian version of Arkan's Tigers if it meant independence. You clearly have no regard for democracy, nor any tolerance for any other community.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

That just goes to show that we are ready to fight to the death for independence! We will never agree to live under Serbia as long as we are alive. And there are two million of us in Kosovo. No negotiations - Self Determination!

Pijetro

pre 17 godina

Sidi really...
Who are you going to fight to the death for???
You're born in Albania, and came to the west when you were 6..You're rhetoric is more comical than a Seselj speech. You Albanians need more educated lawyers and doctors, not fighters...

Serbia is changing for the better hopefully, and it certainly doesn't reflect your hostilities. Sorry, we must be looking through a different pair of glasses on the whole matter.

Brian

pre 17 godina

Two things are likely here. One they are planning an ethnic cleansing campaign against Serbs after independence or if they do not get indepedence soon they are going to start a war against NATO.

Brian

pre 17 godina

Two things are likely here. One they are planning an ethnic cleansing campaign against Serbs after independence or if they do not get indepedence soon they are going to start a war against NATO.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

That just goes to show that we are ready to fight to the death for independence! We will never agree to live under Serbia as long as we are alive. And there are two million of us in Kosovo. No negotiations - Self Determination!

Pijetro

pre 17 godina

Sidi really...
Who are you going to fight to the death for???
You're born in Albania, and came to the west when you were 6..You're rhetoric is more comical than a Seselj speech. You Albanians need more educated lawyers and doctors, not fighters...

Serbia is changing for the better hopefully, and it certainly doesn't reflect your hostilities. Sorry, we must be looking through a different pair of glasses on the whole matter.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Oh Sidi, PLEASE. Who's "we" in the picture??? You live in New York. Would you live in Kosovo and give up your cushy life here? Would you join a KLA Mudjaheddin to fight for your cause? You'd pretty much applaud the Albanian version of Arkan's Tigers if it meant independence. You clearly have no regard for democracy, nor any tolerance for any other community.

3OPAH

pre 17 godina

"blah blah, fight to the death" you better get used to the idea that KOCOBO will NOT get independence because its a strong possibility! And you better pray to whomever it is you pray to, that violence doesnt erupt against the Serbs. Just imagine if Serbian troops are allowed back in to protect the Serbs!

Europe doesnt need another Albania, just look at the mess that country is in.

Oliver

pre 17 godina

It’s funny to read the comments made by Serbian nationalists on human rights. My question: Who killed almost 200 000 people in Balkans? According to AP, Reuters, ICTY, Wikipedia it was the SERBIAN NATIONALISTS.

3OPAH said: “Just imagine if Serbian troops are allowed back in to protect the Serbs!”

That’s why they want independence, because Serbian nationalists (like you?) dream all the time about going back to Kosovo and kill the rest of the Albanians. Which world do you live in?

3OPAH no matter what happens, Kosovo will always, yes you read right, always govern itself. Even the Serbian proposals say that Kosovo will govern itself and have its own police, fiscal system, parliament (Draskovic).

Albania is much more democratic than Serbian. The only country in Europe giving shelter to mass murders is SERBIA. Mladic, Karadzic. Do you want more?

ida

pre 17 godina

The number killed has been found to be much lower than 200,000. Instead it is under 100,000 in Bosnia for ALL THREE SIDES and including military.

Experts discovered the same people - particularly fallen Bosnian Muslim soldiers - as being counted several times as civilians too. They were put on civilian lists if they moved around during the war and counted in the civilian reports if they later were killed in battle.

The Kosovo war including all the missing too along with the dead is not even 5,000 - and it includes Serbs and Roma, fighters and civilians, and those killed after NATO took control.

So it is impossible for the number of dead to even be half the 10,000 figure given for Kosovo.

Croatia was mostly Serbs whose population has severely dropped.

Muslims and Croats also killed each other from late 1992 until late February 1994 during their intense war in Bosnia.

sebastian

pre 17 godina

I see the right wing is cheering. They use words like KLA Mujahidin, implying that they are muslim radicals. Give it up, your agenda of spreading lies and hate is disclosed, and nobody takes you seriously. Kosovo will be independent, and you can't change it.

ian

pre 17 godina

Oliver,
I dont know what nationality you are however you need to read a bit more on the war in Bosnia and look at the way the war started. The whole war could have been avoided if USA and Germany didnt get involved, once it started Germany sold weapons to SLovenes and to Croats while USA initially supported Milosevic and sold weapons to the Serbs. Then when USA saw what kind of mess they created the withdrew their support of Milosevic. 200,000 people died but dont think that Serbs were not amongst the dead. Think about what happened in Croatian Kraina, 300,000 Serbs cleansed. Dont think Serbs were not victims. Every civilian was a victim however most Mulims died because Serbs were by far stronger but if you think that Muslims and Croats didnt do the same stuff as the Serbs you are mistaken, it is just that the Serbs were the most powerful so the scale was larger. Bosnians had the mujahaden for them, do you think those people fight with pride?? They are terrorists! I will assume that you are from the USA, just think of how many wars USA has started recently and for what???? For nothing, some BS excuse, first to fight communism and once they got rid of communism as much as they dared to then to fight terrorism. I would like to see the numbers of how many people died in wars USA waged. By the way more people died when USA decited to bomb Serbia then the whole Kosovo conflict all-together. Oliver you are a prime example of how Western propaganda worked in the face of the world. Thanks for being a prime example. In every conflict there is politics, national interests and money involved. The largets USA base in Europe is now in Kosovo which is relatively close proximity to Israel and Middle East.

Tim

pre 17 godina

"But Albin Kurti, a former political prisoner of Serbia, now leader of the Vetvendosja (Self-determination) movement, dismissed the talks and the international presence as a joke at the expense of the Albanians.

"We do not know yet what that (Ahtisaari's) proposal will contain, but we know what it will not contain," said Kurti. "It will not contain foreign and defence ministries and a seat in the UN."
http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_5805--Albanians-Look-To-2007-For-Kosovo-Independence.html

Mike

pre 17 godina

Oliver, you need to inform yourself a little more before you trip over your own logic. According to Freedom House, a respected NGO, Serbia is listed as "Free", while Albanian is only listed as "partly free". Your claim that Albania is more democratic than Serbia is problematic. See for yourself if you don't believe me at www.freedomhouse.org . Don't talk to me about hiding war criminals when warlords, drug dealers and criminal elite roam openly in Pristina and Tirane. I really could care less about these back and forth "my country is cooler than your country" playground boasts that happen here, but if you want to make a credible claim, please back it up with facts.

And the same goes for Sebastian, no one is claiming K-Albanians are a bunch of Muslim fanatics, though some frequent commentators on this site wouldn't mind if it came to that, if only to gain independence at the expense of Serb humiliation. Read the ENTIRE comment before responding to only what you think you read.

Kreshnik

pre 17 godina

Ian

The whole war would have been avoided if serbs didn't vote for milosevic and dropped their idea of Greater Serbia.

you said ' Most civilian dead were Muslims beacause serbs were stronger' - Somebody who massacres women and children is not strong, but weak and mentally sick!!

I can't understand why serbs always try to deny the crimes they have commited. Yeah, it is true that other side commited crimes too, but at much lower scale and it does justify why serbs did, especially since they were the ones to start the atrocities.

Also, this BS of Serbia being democratic today is a farse. If they had the chance to invade Kosovo again, they would commit the same crimes and worse. That is why the Radicals are the most popular party in Serbia.

Erik

pre 17 godina

I think that Albanians are prepared for the worst but hopes for the best.

An I'm not surprised that they build weapon arsenals if you consider the situation they were in in 1997 - 1999.

They got killed and massacred because 99% of the people had no arms because they were civilians and I don't think they will let it happen again.

Oliver

pre 17 godina

Ida wrote:” The Kosovo war including all the missing too along with the dead is not even 5,000 - and it includes Serbs and Roma, fighters and civilians, and those killed after NATO took control.”

It is amazing how you sitting in front of your computer can know how many Albanians were killed during the Kosovo War, almost eight years ago. The number is at least 10 000 according to Red Cross, and the UN. You do not have any documentation for what you are saying, since your explanation gives the impression that you were present every place, and all the time which is impossible.

It is revisoism a la David Irving to deny commonly accepted facts.

Alban Castro

pre 17 godina

Sebastian,

It really doesn't matter that you try to discredit the numbers of victims, it matters the "Intention of JNA"

Attempted murder doesn't mean that the victim is dead, yet, the perpetrator, still gets 7 years of prison according to US laws.

Even if your discreditting tactics reduced victim's numbers to a 1000 for the entire Ballkans, you'll have difficulties to have anyone believe that Serbia is innocent.

Madurase hombre!
La verdad ya esta conocida por todo el mundo.

Adios,

Alban Castro,

sebastian

pre 17 godina

Mike,
I read the entire message. Your choice to use the word KLA Mujahidin is not without reason. You do mean to imply that Albanians and KLA are muslim radicals, when you and all others know very well that's not the case at all. Kosovo Albanians just want to be free in their own country - Kosovo. They don't want to humiliate Serbia, they don't want to destroy Serbia or any other thing.

And, the finding of these weapons is no surprise. Since the war ended, there were a lot of weapons in Kosovo. Although KLA disarmed, the people of Kosovo will never EVER again let the Serbian army come and slaughter them like sheep. That's why they keep weapons. By the way, I know of at least two other peoples that like their weapons: the Swiss and the Americans.

HARDtalk

pre 17 godina

I support Sidi's opinion related to this topic, even though he's not tolerant.
There is a question here: who is really engaged for takig that action of the weapons and against whom is being dedicated?
Or it was supposed to save those weapons till next march ?

Lou

pre 17 godina

Usually don't read english section on this site,but,my God ,you people need to lighten up a little bit,especially Albanians.I live in Canada for the past eleven years and I experienced firsthand beauties of "democracies" in both Bosnia and Serbia from 91-95,so don't tell me about good and bad guys over there,they were all bad,end of story.At least,Serbia slowly tries to built its society in a positive manner,yet ,on the other side Kosovo Albanians still live in a disjointed society,ready to wage another war.Only question this time is against who!?Cheers.

layla

pre 17 godina

I see the Albanians mean business with this message.

They're making an offer the eu simply cannot refuse. Not if they want the eu/nato to continue in the form they now inhabit.

qazim doda

pre 17 godina

Somehow I agree with Kreshnik, Serbs are the most responsible people for the commited crimes in Balkans, but I would not consider the serbian people as a criminal people, I think that their politicians were and are criminals. Serbs are very short-minded people, they believe on mitology, communist and radical propaganda. I think that serbs lost every war that they started because they believed on their power and also they did a lots of massacres in civilians.
Nowadays, serbs look smarter and driving their eyes toward the west. I hope that nobody would think on war anymore because they know the consequences from the past.
The arm smugling in Kosova is ilegitimate especialy at this time when Kosova is waiting for the call of final status. The final status would not be the independence only for Albanians , but aslo for the minorities as an multiethnic country with the western culture.
I totally understand that many serbs might be mad at the final status of Kosova because they grew up looking how their regime can kill Albanian civilians and doesn't get punished, but the new reality destroyed their dreams and it is very hard for them to change their mentality so fast. Loosing the war is not bad for that generation, but it is bad for the history which instead of the word golden has to use the word ashes and shame history.
Mike is naming KLA Mujahedeen, I think that he doesn't understand that KLA was not an army driven by religion, the KLA fighters fought for national cause and didn't care about religion, because Albanians have three religions and the religion leaders teach people how to be mrcyfull and love each other instead of stimulating people to commit the crimes on humanity like serbian pravoslav orthodox chuch did with their un-human religious leaders.
Qazim Doda

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

If it is a war everyone wants then it will be. Don't expect the US to come flying to the rescue and do you think the EU will commit forces without the US hell now, the russians will come and keep the peace in Kosovo. Then what a pickle it would be. Let See then it will the the insurrection in Macedonia and NATO will crush that insurgency because Macedonia will be in Nato and don't expect help from Albania because they don't want to be booted out of NATO or ruin there chances of getting into the EU so for those want to be fighters go ahead and start conflicts you will see who will be crying and the doorsteps of enity you want to kick out of KOSOVO THE UN.

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Guys i really don't know what is your problem. if the weapons would be seized in england what explanation would you give, or in Sweden (which happened just two days ago).
And one more thing;For all those that didn't get it yet, Kosovo independence is a done deal. It's just a matter of time.
And a message to all kosovars, send your greetings card to your friends in Serbia, because from next year you would need to pay extra fees (like sending it to Croatia for example). i hope you'll get it. if not i'm available for extra explanations

fatos

pre 17 godina

1 July 2006 | 11:35 | Source: Beta
GORNJI MILANOVAC -- A bomb, gun and revolver were found within the vicinity of a hospital in Gornji Milanovac.

Local police also found about 20 bullets for an automatic rifle. The weapons were found by workers of the Health Centre while they were cleaning the facilities this morning. Gornji Milanovac police have ordered an investigation.

Health Centre worker Ljubisav Jokić told Beta that he was working outside with a rake, near the fence, when he pulled out the bomb which was sitting near his foot and “shined like it was brand new.”



Brian,
Why didn't you place comment on the above listed topic. What ethnic cleansing was planned in Serbia (because according to you there should be).
Mike,
What democracy are you talking about?
Vojvoda,
What threat would this be?

Behar

pre 17 godina

To Ida and Ian:
1.Death toll in Kosovo: 12.000 people known as killed and more than 3000 missing.
2.I don't believe that weapon arsenal confiscated was dedicated for Kosovo protection, because after three Albanian wars in FYR, Albanians have potencials and experience that perfectly organise such important logistical activities. Also I'm sure that providing with weapon is already completed. Just remmber weapon embargo in Bosnia: Bosniacs-no weapon source, Serbs-all potencials of Yuogoslav Army.
We are not stupid and mr.Rugova is not anymore alive to claim that for Kosovo protection is enough crying and not fighting.

arianbarbarian

pre 17 godina

There was similar raid and new weapons were found inside trucks with Bulgarian plates. These trucks were supposed to be carrying used weapons, and this is how it was presented to the public in Macedonia by Bulgarian officials, they said that it is as a donation, but my opinion is that this is another example of how easily weapons cross this region borders. Im sure that the final destination of this weapons wouldn’t have been the museum as the Bulgarian official suggested but some underground bunker arms depot waiting to be used.

bill

pre 17 godina

I have read up on the Balkan issue especially the Kosovo issue and the latest report that came out it was published in India Daily that the latest research shows that 2500 from BOTH sides were killed. The earlier estimates were inflated by USA and Germany to run the propaganda machine against the Serbs. Think about it, when NATO started the bombing the number was over 100,000 killed, then it went to 50,000, they 20,000, then 10,000 for the past 5 yrs and finally after research was done by NATO and Spanish govt the final result IS 2,500 killed from both sides. The 10,000 killed from BOTH sides was an estiamte but the findings are 2,500! FACT

Mike

pre 17 godina

I'll concede the "Mudjahedin" comment Sebastian. I fully know that K-Albanians are not the radicals we see in the Middle East. I knew that before, and I know it now. The statement was made more to augment my comment for another poster than actually believe it to be true.

Brian

pre 17 godina

Two things are likely here. One they are planning an ethnic cleansing campaign against Serbs after independence or if they do not get indepedence soon they are going to start a war against NATO.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

That just goes to show that we are ready to fight to the death for independence! We will never agree to live under Serbia as long as we are alive. And there are two million of us in Kosovo. No negotiations - Self Determination!

Pijetro

pre 17 godina

Sidi really...
Who are you going to fight to the death for???
You're born in Albania, and came to the west when you were 6..You're rhetoric is more comical than a Seselj speech. You Albanians need more educated lawyers and doctors, not fighters...

Serbia is changing for the better hopefully, and it certainly doesn't reflect your hostilities. Sorry, we must be looking through a different pair of glasses on the whole matter.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Oh Sidi, PLEASE. Who's "we" in the picture??? You live in New York. Would you live in Kosovo and give up your cushy life here? Would you join a KLA Mudjaheddin to fight for your cause? You'd pretty much applaud the Albanian version of Arkan's Tigers if it meant independence. You clearly have no regard for democracy, nor any tolerance for any other community.

3OPAH

pre 17 godina

"blah blah, fight to the death" you better get used to the idea that KOCOBO will NOT get independence because its a strong possibility! And you better pray to whomever it is you pray to, that violence doesnt erupt against the Serbs. Just imagine if Serbian troops are allowed back in to protect the Serbs!

Europe doesnt need another Albania, just look at the mess that country is in.

Oliver

pre 17 godina

It’s funny to read the comments made by Serbian nationalists on human rights. My question: Who killed almost 200 000 people in Balkans? According to AP, Reuters, ICTY, Wikipedia it was the SERBIAN NATIONALISTS.

3OPAH said: “Just imagine if Serbian troops are allowed back in to protect the Serbs!”

That’s why they want independence, because Serbian nationalists (like you?) dream all the time about going back to Kosovo and kill the rest of the Albanians. Which world do you live in?

3OPAH no matter what happens, Kosovo will always, yes you read right, always govern itself. Even the Serbian proposals say that Kosovo will govern itself and have its own police, fiscal system, parliament (Draskovic).

Albania is much more democratic than Serbian. The only country in Europe giving shelter to mass murders is SERBIA. Mladic, Karadzic. Do you want more?

ida

pre 17 godina

The number killed has been found to be much lower than 200,000. Instead it is under 100,000 in Bosnia for ALL THREE SIDES and including military.

Experts discovered the same people - particularly fallen Bosnian Muslim soldiers - as being counted several times as civilians too. They were put on civilian lists if they moved around during the war and counted in the civilian reports if they later were killed in battle.

The Kosovo war including all the missing too along with the dead is not even 5,000 - and it includes Serbs and Roma, fighters and civilians, and those killed after NATO took control.

So it is impossible for the number of dead to even be half the 10,000 figure given for Kosovo.

Croatia was mostly Serbs whose population has severely dropped.

Muslims and Croats also killed each other from late 1992 until late February 1994 during their intense war in Bosnia.

sebastian

pre 17 godina

I see the right wing is cheering. They use words like KLA Mujahidin, implying that they are muslim radicals. Give it up, your agenda of spreading lies and hate is disclosed, and nobody takes you seriously. Kosovo will be independent, and you can't change it.

ian

pre 17 godina

Oliver,
I dont know what nationality you are however you need to read a bit more on the war in Bosnia and look at the way the war started. The whole war could have been avoided if USA and Germany didnt get involved, once it started Germany sold weapons to SLovenes and to Croats while USA initially supported Milosevic and sold weapons to the Serbs. Then when USA saw what kind of mess they created the withdrew their support of Milosevic. 200,000 people died but dont think that Serbs were not amongst the dead. Think about what happened in Croatian Kraina, 300,000 Serbs cleansed. Dont think Serbs were not victims. Every civilian was a victim however most Mulims died because Serbs were by far stronger but if you think that Muslims and Croats didnt do the same stuff as the Serbs you are mistaken, it is just that the Serbs were the most powerful so the scale was larger. Bosnians had the mujahaden for them, do you think those people fight with pride?? They are terrorists! I will assume that you are from the USA, just think of how many wars USA has started recently and for what???? For nothing, some BS excuse, first to fight communism and once they got rid of communism as much as they dared to then to fight terrorism. I would like to see the numbers of how many people died in wars USA waged. By the way more people died when USA decited to bomb Serbia then the whole Kosovo conflict all-together. Oliver you are a prime example of how Western propaganda worked in the face of the world. Thanks for being a prime example. In every conflict there is politics, national interests and money involved. The largets USA base in Europe is now in Kosovo which is relatively close proximity to Israel and Middle East.

Tim

pre 17 godina

"But Albin Kurti, a former political prisoner of Serbia, now leader of the Vetvendosja (Self-determination) movement, dismissed the talks and the international presence as a joke at the expense of the Albanians.

"We do not know yet what that (Ahtisaari's) proposal will contain, but we know what it will not contain," said Kurti. "It will not contain foreign and defence ministries and a seat in the UN."
http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_5805--Albanians-Look-To-2007-For-Kosovo-Independence.html

Mike

pre 17 godina

Oliver, you need to inform yourself a little more before you trip over your own logic. According to Freedom House, a respected NGO, Serbia is listed as "Free", while Albanian is only listed as "partly free". Your claim that Albania is more democratic than Serbia is problematic. See for yourself if you don't believe me at www.freedomhouse.org . Don't talk to me about hiding war criminals when warlords, drug dealers and criminal elite roam openly in Pristina and Tirane. I really could care less about these back and forth "my country is cooler than your country" playground boasts that happen here, but if you want to make a credible claim, please back it up with facts.

And the same goes for Sebastian, no one is claiming K-Albanians are a bunch of Muslim fanatics, though some frequent commentators on this site wouldn't mind if it came to that, if only to gain independence at the expense of Serb humiliation. Read the ENTIRE comment before responding to only what you think you read.

Kreshnik

pre 17 godina

Ian

The whole war would have been avoided if serbs didn't vote for milosevic and dropped their idea of Greater Serbia.

you said ' Most civilian dead were Muslims beacause serbs were stronger' - Somebody who massacres women and children is not strong, but weak and mentally sick!!

I can't understand why serbs always try to deny the crimes they have commited. Yeah, it is true that other side commited crimes too, but at much lower scale and it does justify why serbs did, especially since they were the ones to start the atrocities.

Also, this BS of Serbia being democratic today is a farse. If they had the chance to invade Kosovo again, they would commit the same crimes and worse. That is why the Radicals are the most popular party in Serbia.

Erik

pre 17 godina

I think that Albanians are prepared for the worst but hopes for the best.

An I'm not surprised that they build weapon arsenals if you consider the situation they were in in 1997 - 1999.

They got killed and massacred because 99% of the people had no arms because they were civilians and I don't think they will let it happen again.

Oliver

pre 17 godina

Ida wrote:” The Kosovo war including all the missing too along with the dead is not even 5,000 - and it includes Serbs and Roma, fighters and civilians, and those killed after NATO took control.”

It is amazing how you sitting in front of your computer can know how many Albanians were killed during the Kosovo War, almost eight years ago. The number is at least 10 000 according to Red Cross, and the UN. You do not have any documentation for what you are saying, since your explanation gives the impression that you were present every place, and all the time which is impossible.

It is revisoism a la David Irving to deny commonly accepted facts.

Alban Castro

pre 17 godina

Sebastian,

It really doesn't matter that you try to discredit the numbers of victims, it matters the "Intention of JNA"

Attempted murder doesn't mean that the victim is dead, yet, the perpetrator, still gets 7 years of prison according to US laws.

Even if your discreditting tactics reduced victim's numbers to a 1000 for the entire Ballkans, you'll have difficulties to have anyone believe that Serbia is innocent.

Madurase hombre!
La verdad ya esta conocida por todo el mundo.

Adios,

Alban Castro,

sebastian

pre 17 godina

Mike,
I read the entire message. Your choice to use the word KLA Mujahidin is not without reason. You do mean to imply that Albanians and KLA are muslim radicals, when you and all others know very well that's not the case at all. Kosovo Albanians just want to be free in their own country - Kosovo. They don't want to humiliate Serbia, they don't want to destroy Serbia or any other thing.

And, the finding of these weapons is no surprise. Since the war ended, there were a lot of weapons in Kosovo. Although KLA disarmed, the people of Kosovo will never EVER again let the Serbian army come and slaughter them like sheep. That's why they keep weapons. By the way, I know of at least two other peoples that like their weapons: the Swiss and the Americans.

HARDtalk

pre 17 godina

I support Sidi's opinion related to this topic, even though he's not tolerant.
There is a question here: who is really engaged for takig that action of the weapons and against whom is being dedicated?
Or it was supposed to save those weapons till next march ?

Lou

pre 17 godina

Usually don't read english section on this site,but,my God ,you people need to lighten up a little bit,especially Albanians.I live in Canada for the past eleven years and I experienced firsthand beauties of "democracies" in both Bosnia and Serbia from 91-95,so don't tell me about good and bad guys over there,they were all bad,end of story.At least,Serbia slowly tries to built its society in a positive manner,yet ,on the other side Kosovo Albanians still live in a disjointed society,ready to wage another war.Only question this time is against who!?Cheers.

layla

pre 17 godina

I see the Albanians mean business with this message.

They're making an offer the eu simply cannot refuse. Not if they want the eu/nato to continue in the form they now inhabit.

qazim doda

pre 17 godina

Somehow I agree with Kreshnik, Serbs are the most responsible people for the commited crimes in Balkans, but I would not consider the serbian people as a criminal people, I think that their politicians were and are criminals. Serbs are very short-minded people, they believe on mitology, communist and radical propaganda. I think that serbs lost every war that they started because they believed on their power and also they did a lots of massacres in civilians.
Nowadays, serbs look smarter and driving their eyes toward the west. I hope that nobody would think on war anymore because they know the consequences from the past.
The arm smugling in Kosova is ilegitimate especialy at this time when Kosova is waiting for the call of final status. The final status would not be the independence only for Albanians , but aslo for the minorities as an multiethnic country with the western culture.
I totally understand that many serbs might be mad at the final status of Kosova because they grew up looking how their regime can kill Albanian civilians and doesn't get punished, but the new reality destroyed their dreams and it is very hard for them to change their mentality so fast. Loosing the war is not bad for that generation, but it is bad for the history which instead of the word golden has to use the word ashes and shame history.
Mike is naming KLA Mujahedeen, I think that he doesn't understand that KLA was not an army driven by religion, the KLA fighters fought for national cause and didn't care about religion, because Albanians have three religions and the religion leaders teach people how to be mrcyfull and love each other instead of stimulating people to commit the crimes on humanity like serbian pravoslav orthodox chuch did with their un-human religious leaders.
Qazim Doda

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

If it is a war everyone wants then it will be. Don't expect the US to come flying to the rescue and do you think the EU will commit forces without the US hell now, the russians will come and keep the peace in Kosovo. Then what a pickle it would be. Let See then it will the the insurrection in Macedonia and NATO will crush that insurgency because Macedonia will be in Nato and don't expect help from Albania because they don't want to be booted out of NATO or ruin there chances of getting into the EU so for those want to be fighters go ahead and start conflicts you will see who will be crying and the doorsteps of enity you want to kick out of KOSOVO THE UN.

Fatos

pre 17 godina

Guys i really don't know what is your problem. if the weapons would be seized in england what explanation would you give, or in Sweden (which happened just two days ago).
And one more thing;For all those that didn't get it yet, Kosovo independence is a done deal. It's just a matter of time.
And a message to all kosovars, send your greetings card to your friends in Serbia, because from next year you would need to pay extra fees (like sending it to Croatia for example). i hope you'll get it. if not i'm available for extra explanations

fatos

pre 17 godina

1 July 2006 | 11:35 | Source: Beta
GORNJI MILANOVAC -- A bomb, gun and revolver were found within the vicinity of a hospital in Gornji Milanovac.

Local police also found about 20 bullets for an automatic rifle. The weapons were found by workers of the Health Centre while they were cleaning the facilities this morning. Gornji Milanovac police have ordered an investigation.

Health Centre worker Ljubisav Jokić told Beta that he was working outside with a rake, near the fence, when he pulled out the bomb which was sitting near his foot and “shined like it was brand new.”



Brian,
Why didn't you place comment on the above listed topic. What ethnic cleansing was planned in Serbia (because according to you there should be).
Mike,
What democracy are you talking about?
Vojvoda,
What threat would this be?

Behar

pre 17 godina

To Ida and Ian:
1.Death toll in Kosovo: 12.000 people known as killed and more than 3000 missing.
2.I don't believe that weapon arsenal confiscated was dedicated for Kosovo protection, because after three Albanian wars in FYR, Albanians have potencials and experience that perfectly organise such important logistical activities. Also I'm sure that providing with weapon is already completed. Just remmber weapon embargo in Bosnia: Bosniacs-no weapon source, Serbs-all potencials of Yuogoslav Army.
We are not stupid and mr.Rugova is not anymore alive to claim that for Kosovo protection is enough crying and not fighting.

arianbarbarian

pre 17 godina

There was similar raid and new weapons were found inside trucks with Bulgarian plates. These trucks were supposed to be carrying used weapons, and this is how it was presented to the public in Macedonia by Bulgarian officials, they said that it is as a donation, but my opinion is that this is another example of how easily weapons cross this region borders. Im sure that the final destination of this weapons wouldn’t have been the museum as the Bulgarian official suggested but some underground bunker arms depot waiting to be used.

bill

pre 17 godina

I have read up on the Balkan issue especially the Kosovo issue and the latest report that came out it was published in India Daily that the latest research shows that 2500 from BOTH sides were killed. The earlier estimates were inflated by USA and Germany to run the propaganda machine against the Serbs. Think about it, when NATO started the bombing the number was over 100,000 killed, then it went to 50,000, they 20,000, then 10,000 for the past 5 yrs and finally after research was done by NATO and Spanish govt the final result IS 2,500 killed from both sides. The 10,000 killed from BOTH sides was an estiamte but the findings are 2,500! FACT

Mike

pre 17 godina

I'll concede the "Mudjahedin" comment Sebastian. I fully know that K-Albanians are not the radicals we see in the Middle East. I knew that before, and I know it now. The statement was made more to augment my comment for another poster than actually believe it to be true.