Ceku heading to Russia

Is Serbia going to react and send a note of protest to Russia why PM Ceku has been invited to be an honored guest of Russian Federation?

I am very suprised that only one coment came from Mr. Elshani. I am dying to see coment coming from the following persons:Blagoje,Rod,Svojegazda, Princip, Anthony Shelmederin or what ever his last name is, among others. Yes. PM Ceku is going to Russia and Serb politicians are unable to sway Russians otherwise. I wonder what Russians would tell PM in close door meetings, and what would they say to Serbia and in public. Mark my word that the coin has two sides and that is what you will hear.

Ceku's place is not in Russia but at the Hague. He has blood on his hands just as Milosevic, Tudjman, and all the others who could not make peace after the fall of the ex-Yu but resort to war, crimes and atrocities. Ceku is also guilty of many crimes... but so is Putin!

If i agrued so weakly and with such lack of elegance and intelligence Ahmet, i'd be more concerned with addressing this than other contributors surnames.

good luck in russia, you'll need it. less and less countries support indep. and those that do are hardly enthusiastic about it.

Ahmet
The people that you named are the ones who have decided to stick their heads in the sand and tell themselves over and over that independence will not come. I would like to one day meet Blag (we both live in NYC) after Kosovo is declared independent by the big powers, Russia included in that decision, and get his reaction live. I am sure I will get a nice long lecture on how Serbia will now embargo every country in the world and sever diplomatic ties with all the members of the UN/EU/NATO. It will be quite commical to say the least. These folks are unable to look at what is really happening. They like to build themselves a sort of virtual reality in which they can safely hide psychologically. The fact that there were 44 comments on the UNMPIC protest article, shows you how desperate Serbs are to make ANYTHING they can look like March 2004. Have patience, independence is on its way now.

Of course, Russia wants to invest in the power generating plants in Kosovo.

They see the potential for very lucrative contracts and they know that to invest in Kosovo, they have to talk to Kosovo's government.

Recognizing Kosovo's travel documents would be a good start…

I doubt that Serbia will send a note of protest. If Ceku had murdered Russians the way he did Montenegrins and Serbs with impunity he would be travelling to Siberia rather than Moscow.

Most probably they will also disscuss about the building the memorial center in
(Fushe Kosove) for the died Russian soldiers in 1999 in Kosova.

Incorrect again Sidi. Ahmet mentioned my name and i have never proclaimed that independence for the ethnic Albanians will never happen.

I have always stated that independence would be unjust and illegal under international law.

If you can cite any international law that says different then i'll be impressed. Remember... any current international law. I dont want some diatrade about the Milosevic years and how Serbia has brutalised the Albanians. I want an international law quoted!!!

I find the quality of arguement from the pro-Independence camp very beneath me. I would suggest attendance of a decent University or an arguement based on solid foundations. Not myth, nationalism and over emotion.

Let's not forgett that Albanians and Russians have a history together deviod of the Serbian element. Russia dear friends, has evolved into a realist world power and historical aliances are no longer significant to her unless there is a direct intrest related to her core national economic or social progress. The Balkans for Russia are as unimportant as Angola is to the US. Kosovo's independence doesn't depend on Russia, if it ever did, NATO would have never dared to get involved in the first place. Playing the Russian card is getting old and has not proved very productive. If one would bother to analyse all that Russia has done on behalf of Serbia in the past years, if anything, is a furry of words, and in the words of the Russian people "Beware of a quite dog and still water" not the opposite!

you guys should keep it out of the personal and keep this a forum where viewpoints should be expressed. my views about sanctions are not out-of-the-world scenarios and quite likely when one looks at it logically... and these sanctions will be very damaging to K. i do not say this out of glee (as that would not be christian-like)... i say this to promote intellectual analysis and intelligent discussion. my consistent view is that should independence happen it will be outside the bounds of legal precedent and illegal (one cannot argue otherwise); harbor grave consequences for a number of other trouble spots (hard to disagree with this); would be met with fierce serbian resistance that would damage K economically and make life very hard for them (kostunica has already said as much). finaly serbia will not embargo the EU or other states... only kosovo (and no one can stop them from doing so.. there are no carrots to offer).

i also maintain that if it were so easy it would have already been done by now. (see the tim judah commentary on this site). each days seems to lead to murkier proposals and those who support it hardly do so out of enthusiasm.

the commentary about "just wait and see" is weak, intellectually lazy, based on emotion, and increasingly shrill. i grow tired with the site... i thought it would offer better intellectual satisfaction.

To Anthony Shelmerdine

As per your request:

"The General Assembly,recognizing the passionate yearning for freedom in all dependent peoples and the decisive role of such peoples in the attainment of their independence,

Aware of the increasing conflicts resulting from the denial of or impediments in the way of the freedom of such peoples, which constitute a serious threat to world peace,

Welcoming the emergence in recent years of a large number of dependent territories into freedom and independence, and recognizing the increasingly powerful trends towards freedom in such territories which have not yet attained independence,

Convinced that all peoples have an inalienable right to complete freedom, the exercise of their sovereignty and the integrity of their national territory,
And to this end Declares that:

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

Adopted by General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960

Don't you dare question my academic qualifications.

I can see a lot of nervousness in Pro-Big Serbia camp. Otherwise, they wouldn't be discreditting anything Albanians do. It's less than a month and a half my friends, and after that it'll be very quite on this site.
"Cheku couldn't have been more successful for the last three weeks."

Who would have imagined Chzech republic, Poland, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Monte Negro, Croatia, joining the pro-Independence camp.

I think you guys are wishing and dreaming something could go wrong!

Saddly for you, that will never happen as long as 95 % of population is Albanian.

Anthony,
It is the B92 who censures the pro-independence arguments and puts off readers like me. The level of your and most of other comments are pretty unrealistic and childish.

To Blag-

The "illegal" arguement is so tired and ridiculous. The very definition of sovereignty is based upon decisionism-whether this decision is grounded in the collective will, a sancrosanct individual or the multitude is irrelevant. States are formed via 'illegality.' It is the transgression of established norms and boundaries of constituted power that constitutes revolution. According to your logic every state in the world is in its origins 'illegal' since they are all based upon a founding violence, a transgression of constituted power via constituent power. If we follow your logic then Serbia should be returned to the Ottoman empire. Now if we are speaking of contemporary international legal norms, then the only firm arguement against Kosova's independence is it's reliance upon external entities as grantors of sovereignty. Hence, the grass roots "self-Determination" movement which will ultimately be responsible for a fully sovereign K.

I am confused. Is there a country in the world that has TWO Presidents and Two PMs? I believe there is none, so is it fare to say that Kosovo and Serbia are two separate countries?

there is an international law prohibiting militaries from sending their armies to kill their own civilians and civilians in other countries but that international law serbia ignored and yet wants international laws that benefit itself upheld. In any case, Russia will abstain from voting in the UN. It wont use its veto, it just wont vote and that will ensure Kosovo is independent. Kosovo independence doesnt have to be supported for by everyone in UN security council. Just those that vote.

Ahmet,
since you ask my opinion I will give it.
Firstly, your perspective clouds your judgment as evidenced by the phrase;
"Mark my word that the coin has two sides and that is what you will hear"

A coin in fact has 3 sides 2 faces as maybe but also a 3rd side! With this insight into your thinking on matters it is clear that you will never see the full picture and as such you limit your speculation to 2 options heads vs tails, black or white or good vs bad etc...

The fact of the matter is that all issues are multi-faceted and a lasting solutions will only come about by accepting the holistic approach. The negotiated talks will only start once the Ahtisarri "proposal" is put forth. Only from this starting point this point will the final solution evolve from since, it is now accepted that the Ahtisarri "proposal" can not be imposed.

Secondly, since you ask it my opinion on Ceku visiting Moscow is that I think you will find in the next few days there will be a change on emphasis by Ceku. He will understand better the Russian stance and realise that it is true to international law or else it will apply the same precedent to other matters and such a precedent will be blocked by China not Russia. I wonder if Ceku has planned his China visit yet?

Thirdly, I have been economically active and paying my taxes - involving myself in the good of the British nation as a good ethnic Serb citizen of the British state. If only all the peoples of Serbia were to be more involved I think they would find that their economic lot would improve rapidly too!

Finally, I will comment when things have changed but recently there has been no sea change to my point of view and it still stands - a win-win solution is in the best interest of all the peoples of Serbia and that includes the all the ethnic Albanians in what is recognised as Serbia and is recognised as such by resolution 1244. No threats percevied or real of violence will be tolerated and will not change the reality of the talks. Only through real negotiations will a lasting win-win solution come about. Such a solution will allow all ethnic groups to live freely, be respected & protected on the whole territory of Serbia.

I look forward to 2007 when a better future for all the peoples of Serbia will start to be seen as the only way forward and all become active in making Serbia prosperous for all.

I just discovered that Princip is most likely inside the premisses of b92 and the reason is; I just wrotte while ago and my coments are not published on this web page, yet Princip said ; " since you asking my opinion I will give to you".
Note; My coment on this article is number 2, but my other coment regarding this artilce is on another artilce , which is not published on either one, so the qusetion is how Princip knew about it?

"Maybe Princip is holding a Magic Crystal Ball and can read the minds of posters from thousand miles away."

Just kidding Mr. Isufi!

I think it's nothing more than coincidence, B92 have proven to me that they are professional and the least biased news group in Serbia.

Xhafer,

ahmet check your facts, i think you dont remember well.
it not important if princip is b92 or not. he is a serb also, and gives his opinion. it's a free debate.
you judge b92 by the news it gives if they are profesional, objective and not bias, not by personal comments in a debate.
i think b92 has been fair and i dont think this can happen, it's imposible.

as regard to the comments above i think it very pitty to see serbs here flying in the clouds at night and without lights in an unknown direction, depending on the gravity force.

don't you think if princip was inside B92 he would have deleted your comment or corrected the flaw you claim?
doesn't make sense

I agree that b92 is very fair and I very much appreciate, but I still stand by my coments. I think that all of you should read carefully what I said. In no way did I offend or meant to offend b92.
P.S. Yes at times my coments have been edited by editor of b92, but that is OK with me.

Is Serbia going to react and send a note of protest to Russia why PM Ceku has been invited to be an honored guest of Russian Federation?

I am very suprised that only one coment came from Mr. Elshani. I am dying to see coment coming from the following persons:Blagoje,Rod,Svojegazda, Princip, Anthony Shelmederin or what ever his last name is, among others. Yes. PM Ceku is going to Russia and Serb politicians are unable to sway Russians otherwise. I wonder what Russians would tell PM in close door meetings, and what would they say to Serbia and in public. Mark my word that the coin has two sides and that is what you will hear.

Ceku's place is not in Russia but at the Hague. He has blood on his hands just as Milosevic, Tudjman, and all the others who could not make peace after the fall of the ex-Yu but resort to war, crimes and atrocities. Ceku is also guilty of many crimes... but so is Putin!

If i agrued so weakly and with such lack of elegance and intelligence Ahmet, i'd be more concerned with addressing this than other contributors surnames.

good luck in russia, you'll need it. less and less countries support indep. and those that do are hardly enthusiastic about it.

Ahmet
The people that you named are the ones who have decided to stick their heads in the sand and tell themselves over and over that independence will not come. I would like to one day meet Blag (we both live in NYC) after Kosovo is declared independent by the big powers, Russia included in that decision, and get his reaction live. I am sure I will get a nice long lecture on how Serbia will now embargo every country in the world and sever diplomatic ties with all the members of the UN/EU/NATO. It will be quite commical to say the least. These folks are unable to look at what is really happening. They like to build themselves a sort of virtual reality in which they can safely hide psychologically. The fact that there were 44 comments on the UNMPIC protest article, shows you how desperate Serbs are to make ANYTHING they can look like March 2004. Have patience, independence is on its way now.

Of course, Russia wants to invest in the power generating plants in Kosovo.

They see the potential for very lucrative contracts and they know that to invest in Kosovo, they have to talk to Kosovo's government.

Recognizing Kosovo's travel documents would be a good start…

I doubt that Serbia will send a note of protest. If Ceku had murdered Russians the way he did Montenegrins and Serbs with impunity he would be travelling to Siberia rather than Moscow.

Most probably they will also disscuss about the building the memorial center in
(Fushe Kosove) for the died Russian soldiers in 1999 in Kosova.

Incorrect again Sidi. Ahmet mentioned my name and i have never proclaimed that independence for the ethnic Albanians will never happen.

I have always stated that independence would be unjust and illegal under international law.

If you can cite any international law that says different then i'll be impressed. Remember... any current international law. I dont want some diatrade about the Milosevic years and how Serbia has brutalised the Albanians. I want an international law quoted!!!

I find the quality of arguement from the pro-Independence camp very beneath me. I would suggest attendance of a decent University or an arguement based on solid foundations. Not myth, nationalism and over emotion.

Let's not forgett that Albanians and Russians have a history together deviod of the Serbian element. Russia dear friends, has evolved into a realist world power and historical aliances are no longer significant to her unless there is a direct intrest related to her core national economic or social progress. The Balkans for Russia are as unimportant as Angola is to the US. Kosovo's independence doesn't depend on Russia, if it ever did, NATO would have never dared to get involved in the first place. Playing the Russian card is getting old and has not proved very productive. If one would bother to analyse all that Russia has done on behalf of Serbia in the past years, if anything, is a furry of words, and in the words of the Russian people "Beware of a quite dog and still water" not the opposite!

you guys should keep it out of the personal and keep this a forum where viewpoints should be expressed. my views about sanctions are not out-of-the-world scenarios and quite likely when one looks at it logically... and these sanctions will be very damaging to K. i do not say this out of glee (as that would not be christian-like)... i say this to promote intellectual analysis and intelligent discussion. my consistent view is that should independence happen it will be outside the bounds of legal precedent and illegal (one cannot argue otherwise); harbor grave consequences for a number of other trouble spots (hard to disagree with this); would be met with fierce serbian resistance that would damage K economically and make life very hard for them (kostunica has already said as much). finaly serbia will not embargo the EU or other states... only kosovo (and no one can stop them from doing so.. there are no carrots to offer).

i also maintain that if it were so easy it would have already been done by now. (see the tim judah commentary on this site). each days seems to lead to murkier proposals and those who support it hardly do so out of enthusiasm.

the commentary about "just wait and see" is weak, intellectually lazy, based on emotion, and increasingly shrill. i grow tired with the site... i thought it would offer better intellectual satisfaction.

To Anthony Shelmerdine

As per your request:

"The General Assembly,recognizing the passionate yearning for freedom in all dependent peoples and the decisive role of such peoples in the attainment of their independence,

Aware of the increasing conflicts resulting from the denial of or impediments in the way of the freedom of such peoples, which constitute a serious threat to world peace,

Welcoming the emergence in recent years of a large number of dependent territories into freedom and independence, and recognizing the increasingly powerful trends towards freedom in such territories which have not yet attained independence,

Convinced that all peoples have an inalienable right to complete freedom, the exercise of their sovereignty and the integrity of their national territory,
And to this end Declares that:

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

Adopted by General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960

Don't you dare question my academic qualifications.

I can see a lot of nervousness in Pro-Big Serbia camp. Otherwise, they wouldn't be discreditting anything Albanians do. It's less than a month and a half my friends, and after that it'll be very quite on this site.
"Cheku couldn't have been more successful for the last three weeks."

Who would have imagined Chzech republic, Poland, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Monte Negro, Croatia, joining the pro-Independence camp.

I think you guys are wishing and dreaming something could go wrong!

Saddly for you, that will never happen as long as 95 % of population is Albanian.

Anthony,
It is the B92 who censures the pro-independence arguments and puts off readers like me. The level of your and most of other comments are pretty unrealistic and childish.

To Blag-

The "illegal" arguement is so tired and ridiculous. The very definition of sovereignty is based upon decisionism-whether this decision is grounded in the collective will, a sancrosanct individual or the multitude is irrelevant. States are formed via 'illegality.' It is the transgression of established norms and boundaries of constituted power that constitutes revolution. According to your logic every state in the world is in its origins 'illegal' since they are all based upon a founding violence, a transgression of constituted power via constituent power. If we follow your logic then Serbia should be returned to the Ottoman empire. Now if we are speaking of contemporary international legal norms, then the only firm arguement against Kosova's independence is it's reliance upon external entities as grantors of sovereignty. Hence, the grass roots "self-Determination" movement which will ultimately be responsible for a fully sovereign K.

I am confused. Is there a country in the world that has TWO Presidents and Two PMs? I believe there is none, so is it fare to say that Kosovo and Serbia are two separate countries?

there is an international law prohibiting militaries from sending their armies to kill their own civilians and civilians in other countries but that international law serbia ignored and yet wants international laws that benefit itself upheld. In any case, Russia will abstain from voting in the UN. It wont use its veto, it just wont vote and that will ensure Kosovo is independent. Kosovo independence doesnt have to be supported for by everyone in UN security council. Just those that vote.

Ahmet,
since you ask my opinion I will give it.
Firstly, your perspective clouds your judgment as evidenced by the phrase;
"Mark my word that the coin has two sides and that is what you will hear"

A coin in fact has 3 sides 2 faces as maybe but also a 3rd side! With this insight into your thinking on matters it is clear that you will never see the full picture and as such you limit your speculation to 2 options heads vs tails, black or white or good vs bad etc...

The fact of the matter is that all issues are multi-faceted and a lasting solutions will only come about by accepting the holistic approach. The negotiated talks will only start once the Ahtisarri "proposal" is put forth. Only from this starting point this point will the final solution evolve from since, it is now accepted that the Ahtisarri "proposal" can not be imposed.

Secondly, since you ask it my opinion on Ceku visiting Moscow is that I think you will find in the next few days there will be a change on emphasis by Ceku. He will understand better the Russian stance and realise that it is true to international law or else it will apply the same precedent to other matters and such a precedent will be blocked by China not Russia. I wonder if Ceku has planned his China visit yet?

Thirdly, I have been economically active and paying my taxes - involving myself in the good of the British nation as a good ethnic Serb citizen of the British state. If only all the peoples of Serbia were to be more involved I think they would find that their economic lot would improve rapidly too!

Finally, I will comment when things have changed but recently there has been no sea change to my point of view and it still stands - a win-win solution is in the best interest of all the peoples of Serbia and that includes the all the ethnic Albanians in what is recognised as Serbia and is recognised as such by resolution 1244. No threats percevied or real of violence will be tolerated and will not change the reality of the talks. Only through real negotiations will a lasting win-win solution come about. Such a solution will allow all ethnic groups to live freely, be respected & protected on the whole territory of Serbia.

I look forward to 2007 when a better future for all the peoples of Serbia will start to be seen as the only way forward and all become active in making Serbia prosperous for all.

I just discovered that Princip is most likely inside the premisses of b92 and the reason is; I just wrotte while ago and my coments are not published on this web page, yet Princip said ; " since you asking my opinion I will give to you".
Note; My coment on this article is number 2, but my other coment regarding this artilce is on another artilce , which is not published on either one, so the qusetion is how Princip knew about it?

"Maybe Princip is holding a Magic Crystal Ball and can read the minds of posters from thousand miles away."

Just kidding Mr. Isufi!

I think it's nothing more than coincidence, B92 have proven to me that they are professional and the least biased news group in Serbia.

Xhafer,

ahmet check your facts, i think you dont remember well.
it not important if princip is b92 or not. he is a serb also, and gives his opinion. it's a free debate.
you judge b92 by the news it gives if they are profesional, objective and not bias, not by personal comments in a debate.
i think b92 has been fair and i dont think this can happen, it's imposible.

as regard to the comments above i think it very pitty to see serbs here flying in the clouds at night and without lights in an unknown direction, depending on the gravity force.

don't you think if princip was inside B92 he would have deleted your comment or corrected the flaw you claim?
doesn't make sense

I agree that b92 is very fair and I very much appreciate, but I still stand by my coments. I think that all of you should read carefully what I said. In no way did I offend or meant to offend b92.
P.S. Yes at times my coments have been edited by editor of b92, but that is OK with me.