UNMIK fires teargas at Kosovo protesters

One has to wonder how Albanians became 99% of the population considering they were less than 50% six decades ago. If thats not ethnic cleansing, then i dont know what is. They've started biting the hand that feeds them now (UN). Don't they know this only shows the world their TRUE colors? Someone should let them know they can't start attacking the very people who gave them what they have now. I'm starting to question whether we've bombed the wrong side.

Hilarious ! This shows the true face of the dark side. They throw stones against the one who feeds them. Without UN they would be in the mud without anything. Like one British diplomat said this afternoon in Pristina: "Independence, well, does anyone believe in that anymore ?" He is right, there will not be any independence for sure. Wait and see.

Andrew, I'm convinced that we bombed the wrong side.

Is this a taste of what's to come for UNMIK? Independence and self-determination have been won through negotiation, not through whining and temper tantrums like spoiled children. Kurti obviously lacks any maturity and experience in understanding politics and will most assuredly hurt the K-Albanian PR campaign on the international stage.

To Andrew: Read first then comment: when they said 99 %, they referred to the people (Albanians, Serbs etc) who do not work at the government. 50 years ago according to Yugoslavian statistics, 77 % of Kosovo’s population was Albanians.

Teddy DC, there will be Independence for sure, just wait and see. And why not, join them in January when they celebrated the Independence, and the creation of a new, real multiethnic state.

Rod, how can you say that you are convinced that you (talking on behalf go who?) bombed wrong side? Is that because you do not like to see a democratic Kosovo? A country which allows demonstrations, protest is a real democracy. Even if we disagree with those protesting, we have to protect everyone’s right to express their thoughts. The most basic right.

While I agree the people have a right to demostrate, they do not have a right to engage in destruction of property which is what they are doing.

Also, these kinds of actions are not going to make the Serbian population feel safe.

If you want a truly stable country after independence, you're going to need to work on making the Serbian population feel safe. If you do not, its only going to cause further conflicts in the future.

Now is not a good time for such demostrations, for either side. If a small number of people got carried away and started another 2004 style riot, it would really hurt the independence movement and set relations in the region back 10 years.

Oliver:

Your statistics are way off. Albanians achieved 77% population according to the 1981 SFRY census. This is 25 years ago, not fifty. The population increased from 916k (1971 census) to 1226k (1981 census) after Tito opened the boarders and there was a rush of illegal immigration. This is a 34% population explosion in 10 years! This number also does not include illegals who didn't get counted!

The population also skewed during WWII while some Nazi-allied ethnic albanian groups cleansed Serbs from the area.

The Albanians are being set up. The West is purposely sabotaging the chance at independence... the Albanian leadership knows it... and has instructed it's followers to do this. Just look at the events of the past 4 weeks and this will become abundantly clear. Independence is NOT coming anytme soon. Serbia has outflanked the West with passage of the Constitution & the Russian wildcard... and the West knows it. The West has nothing to force Serbia to "play ball." All of this was fairly predictable months ago... but everyone thought Kostunica was a fool (instead, he is proving to be quite wise)

Matthew I do not ether like the demonstrations, but Kosovo wants to be a democracy and in order to be that they have to respect”freedom of expression”.

Demonstrations, protests are not typically Kosovo. We had this kind of demonstrations many times here in Western Europe. Kosovo’s neighbour in the south, Greece, has this kind of demonstrations and protest several times a year.

Peace

this is obviously a manufactured episode designed to get across to UNMIK that should independence be significantly delayed or denied it will have big civil protests on its hands.
the net result of this manufactured episode will be moot: stronger voices for "independence"... but also stronger voices for "no independence." should the episode escalate, indep. will lose support b/c that is very easy to label as blackmail. in K, violence used to pay... but not anymore.

To Swoj Gazda,

Why don't you call Serbians-Serbiacs. Your ironic way of calling Albaninans-Albaniacs (Which means Maniacs for those who know the meaning behind it) is a pure hateful nonsense. Everyone in a democratic country should have the rights to protest! Albanians are right! UN has brought them nothing more than misery. For those, who say that UNMIK feeds Kosovo population is another absurdity at its worst. Almost every Albanian family has two or three members working in the west. Look at the private structures in Kosovo. They probably leave a lot better than Serbiacs.

Xhafer,

I feel a big Deja vú right now...maybe a new 2004 riot? now the west and rest of the europe see whats happening in kosovo demonstrations and so on, and threats "if we dont get indepedence we will do this and this"... thats not democrasy!! thats Terrorist act

Oliver: "And why not, join them in January when they celebrated the Independence, and the creation of a new, real multiethnic state."

Are you joking??? Independence seeking Kosovo Albanians certainly do not want any other groups living in Kosovo.

I would say that I am sure we bombed the wrong side, but people are people, and I would never advocate bombing civillians under any circumstance.

But when there was a separatist uprising other countries should have supported the sovereign state, and could therefore have had an influence on containing events on the ground. Instead of which tthey used the KLA, a terrorist group, as their land army. Now their 'friends' are demanding promises to be kept which can't be kept.

How I wish this sham was exposed on an international level!

L

Oliver,

I agree that everyone has the right to express their thoughts, and peaceful protest is certainly no
exception to that rule.
However, acts of
vandalism, destruction of
property, throwing paint bombs at people,etc... are violent, not peaceful. Violence is unacceptable in any democratic society. Your right to express yourself, doesn't give you permission to jeporadize the safety and livelihood of others.
No one has that right. I suggest that you learn what democracy really means Ollie, before you accuse others of "not wanting a democratic Kosovo."

It is me again

Show some pictures from the demonstration, and just wanted to add that I condemn what happened today in Pristina. Yes to peaceful protest but NO to violent protests.

To Louise: Once again I have to give lessons on democracy. According to a Serbia’s Government website 95 % of Kosovo’s population are Albanians. That means that they can decide the future of Kosovo as long as they respect the human rights of all people of Kosovo. This is democracy in action. Wouldn’t it been undemocratic, unprecedented to let 5 % of the population of Kosovo decide the future of this province?

I am very surprised about how good some countries are treating Serbia, the only country in Europe helping and protecting war criminals. Search Mladic, Karadic if you want to read more.

Peace in the Balkans. Say no to nationalism

TO Xhafer,
(Xhafer,, 28 November 2006, 19:04)

The Unemployment rate in Kosovo is over 75% , of course this includes ALL of the Serbs who make up less than 5% of Kosovo becuase they have been purged of there jobs from the Albanian Majority.

The Serbian unemployment rate is now in it's lowest levels in years, around the 15% and making strides.

Meanwhile, the Albanians continue to illegally enter Greece and commit crimes.

The right to demonstrate does not mean destroying property, over 100 Serbian Orthodox monasteries have been razed to the ground by the Albanians. Those same monasteries that offered refuge to Albanian civilians when attacked by certain Serbian paramiliaties.

Not only monasteries, but Orthodox gravesites have been damaged also, a disgrace.

Blag, you are a master in conspiracy theories.
Have you written any science fiction books?
Take this as a compliment!!

That's what happens in front of the White House almost everyday by the protesters of Anti-Irak. They daily throw paint bombs, write graffity. Do I think that these Americans are terrorists. Definetly not! They are just as patriotic for standing up against a wrongful war.

To billy!

You have made by far the most hilarious comment! This is your comment: 'Albanians achieved 77% population according to the 1981 SFRY census. This is 25 years ago, not fifty. The population increased from 916k (1971 census) to 1226k (1981 census) after Tito opened the boarders and there was a rush of illegal immigration. This is a 34% population explosion in 10 years! This number also does not include illegals who didn't get counted!
The population also skewed during WWII while some Nazi-allied ethnic albanian groups cleansed Serbs from the area.'
(billy, 28 November 2006, 18:52)... 'The border between Yugoslavia and Albania was probably more guarded than thet of North Korea and South Korea today... '

Albainains have always been a majority in this part of the world. besides the life did not start in the 1300s when the serbs claim this part of the world as theirs. and as far as demonstrtions i do not support them but at the same time they have the right to do so....i do not agree with the vandalism though and any other means of violence. billy please read the history before you make a pathetis comment like that..
god bless you
sean

Rod, the demonstrators have expressed their anger as many demonstrators have done across europe for the past ten years. French president got several eggs into his face. Arnold got a hot pot pie on his face as he was giving a speech in Oakland. The latest news says no one was hurt and demostrators went home.

This demonstrators were not protesting against Serbia. They were protesting against UNMIK and against those leaders you often call terrorists.

So, your criticism is utterly out of place.

My understanding, and it explicitly is reported so in the news piece that Kurti said, "We are 99 percent, and they are only 1 percent, sitting in their offices." Clearly, he is talking about Kosovar and Unmik officials.

Well Well Well, I think everybody in the world knew this would happen. These protesters have no respect for anybodies law. When the Australian government opened its arms to refugees it did so with welcoming smiles. Instead the Albanian "guests" robbed shop keepers, ignored police request and on two occasions molested female councillors. Now they are abusing the UN men and women who risk their lives for others.

well serbs would know best what violence is so all of these comments from serbs should be listened to.

There is no doubt that we (the US) made a terrible mistake here. Kosovo is part of Serbia and should remain that way. I hope, someday, that my country learns that it needs to mind its own business!

99% Albanian population was not reached by democratic or peacefull means and did not start 1999. Refusing to live by law of the country they migrated to, very simply will not work. It can only be used by nasty polititians to set a time bomb for the future where once again people will suffer.

Some of you who say "We bombed the wrong side," are really giving the green light to future dictators like Milosevic. This is also an insult to 10,000 dead Kosovo Albanians and Serb civilians.

If you are looking for Gandi forms of protests in Ballkans. There will never be any. Nobody's dead! So, what's the big deal? We have had quite a few similiar protests in Serbia. As a Serbian democrat, I definetly do not share the same opinion with Blag, Rod, and Xhafer.

The only way for a lasting peace is understanding and hopefully future brotherhood between Albanians and Serbs.

They have no other place to go and neither do we. Ballkans is the only place we can call home whether we live separatly or together.

Kosovo Albanians have attacked the UN on this day. How much more violent can they get, and how much more can people of Kosovo and people of Serbia tolerate this?

I have noticed that the majority of Serbian commentators here at B92 posting talk as if it's the end of the world because some Albanians have chosen to express their displeasure with current Kosovo government and UNMIK by protesting through the streets of Prishtina.

I am a lot more surprised of those writing from abroad such as:(Blag, Rod, Princip, etc.) It's hard to believe that you who claim to be born and raised in those countries,at the same time, seem to be furnished with such a poor understanding of the democratic fundamentals in a society.

Protesting is one of the basic rights that democratic societies are proud of.

Do you remember Anti-Vietnam protests, LA Riots, Anti-Globalization protests in Seattle, Now daily protests against the war in Irak.

Protesters, whether in France, USA, South Korea, Japan, or in Kosovo, they all use spray paint bottles, burn tires, or paint graffiti.

"Only a fool would rush into immediately calling them all Terrorists".

Alban Castro,

Easy guys, only few windows broken! No one died! People in Kosova are frustrated, living in a lie, they have been promised a better life.You know one thing guys, can you please start treating kosovan albanians as a human beings, can you please take them as a co-citizens, understand that they have a right to live. Whats happenned today for me as a born kosovan albanian is not acceptable, throwing stones at UNMIK buildings thats just not on, there are ways to make a point and I think this organisation are not accepted by majority of kosovan albanians. As for "feeding" the Kosova thats not true, UNMIK are a useless organisation with fat pockets who don't care about people of Kosova!!! It's a pitty that Kosovan People can't decide about they future! About Serbian people being more scared, thats nonsense, it's not all about Serbian people, they are not special and shouldn't be treated like one! It is important that all Kosovans have a right for a better life and don't forget that none of the countries these days are safe to live, what happened to US, UK, even in our "democratic" Serbia killings are happening. So you can say anything about safety in Kosova but I think Kosovan serbs are safer in Kosova then anywhere else.Let's please try something new ,let's try respect each other rather then not excepting each other. I am always for PEACE and I know that one day this will happen. Peace and Love to all Human Beings.

Well they have done it again. Thank Albin for making sure that you were foolish enough to get a group people to go protest and destroy property to again appear on CNN to show the world how foolish people can be when you send a bunch of messages or go to chat rooms and tell people to protest and bad thing about is they go and eat a bunch of tear gas and then say it is good? If the UN left Kosovo today along with all NGO's the umemployment rate would skyrocket and government would collapse because no one has a job and UNMIK is not there to provide them. Today was real wake up call for UNMIK. If i had a say i would pack UN move out and let them figure everything out for themselves. Don't come to the World bank looking for a handout since those smart guys like Mr Kurti has all the answer. Why do they have so many albanians working abroad because there are no jobs and the ones who stay here is because they get money sent from Germany and other countries that have them working. Furthermore for those who believe they are smart i thought the 2004 riots would give kosovo a wake up call unfortunately it did not. Winter is coming, be careful what you wish for it may come true. Camp Bondsteel could be relocated to Serbia and then what would u do? In closing for those who live in kosovo and presevo, don't listen to those fools who believe the sword will solve everything they will be the ones running to Blace and claiming to be heros yet again.

Tito opened the border??? The most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

The border between Kosovo and Albania was the most controlled border in the world (something like the North Korea/South Korea border). Not only people, but the radio and tv broadcasts were being jammed by the Yugoslav side as well. Children are still being killed by the mines that were placed there by the Yugoslavs throughout the years.

You have to understand that until mid 80's, it was the whole Yugoslavia that was united against what they called the Albanian separatism. Then, Slovenia and Croatia, when they realized that it is not the Albanian separatism that they are preventing, but they were aiding with the Serb expansionism, they withdrew their police units.

There were small groups of immigrants from Albania (less than 500) that made it to Kosovo, and most of them were recruited to go back to Albania as Yugoslav spies. Those that did not want to do that were forced out of Kosovo into usually Western Europe, since the ethnic balance was always a concern of Serbia.

On the other hand, there are about a million Kosovar (people that trace their roots to Kosovo, not immigrants from Albania) immigrants presently in the United States, Western Europe, Asia. Since Serbia loves this area so much, why it never mentioned how it facilitated (read forced) their migration from Kosovo to these third countries? How about the Kosovars' deportation to Turkey between the two world wars?

Clearly, Serbia wants Kosovo without Albanians.

The world has seen Serbia’s ambitions. As a result of those ambitions, the world is united on their stand, which is that “Kosovo will never go under Serbia’s jurisdiction”.

Andrew, Rod, Lousie... Kosovo was the fire in the Europe, don't ask for it again. It's just in your neighborhood... After the massacres on albanian population 1998-99, there is a percentage of albanian population who is conviced that negotiations with serbs are absolutely unnecessary.
In International Public Law we have something that is called "unconditional surrending" used (at least) with Japan that stoped the WWII. Regarding Kosovo, this mechanism should be used also with the serbs. Masaccres tooked place also in other parts of ex-YU. Just remember Vukovar, Srebrenica.
So, from a man who lost 16 members (cut on a throat and burned) which were killed on the front of him, don't wait to accept ruling of the serbian state. That is impposible and the evil that killed in Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Kosovo is not going to be repeated again.

1. Rod, Andrew, Louise how can you think that "you" have bombed the wrong side!! didn't we all see enough people dying in Bosnia, Croatia few years back?? Remember, Milosevic and his supporters didn't only kill "albaniacs" they killed their own brothers and sisters who speak the same language, I don't think we need to say anymore on that one.
2. I am an ALBANIAN and I don't want an independent Kosova/o without other ethnic groups who consider Kosova/o to be their homeland.
3. The demonstrations from yesterday, i don't support them at all I just hope that International community will be wise enough when the decision on status is taken.
4. Blag, Aca/SWE Serbia and any other powerful countries may threaten all day long that there will be no independence for us, but let me remind you that 100% of us Albanians here strongly believe that there is no way back for us. As for Kostunica being smart, I laughed at that....thats what you think anyway. Aca, unfortunately it is Belgrade's diplomacy that threatens every day not us pls. be reasonable. 2004 riots I don't think it will happen anytime in the near future, but if UNMIK keeps Kosova/o isolated = NO STATUS for few more years then I would not be surprised to see riots again.
5. Billy, don't be ridiculous , I did know we were such an attractive place to have people immigrating here to increase the population nor that we Albanians ever had the power in the past to conduct any ethnic cleansing in order to achieve a majority population of albainans in Kosova/o. I often see comments that Kosova/o is the heart of Serbia and I laugh, it makes me think which part of the Serbia's body were Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia I hope you know what I mean. Let me tell you how the Albanian population increased: My grand grand parents from fathers side had 12 children, from mothers side 14. My parents from father's side had 6 children, from mother's side 8, now you do the math. And last but not least, Kosova was part of Albania as the history proves.
good day to all of you.

the demonstrators have been spoiled since the beginning. arrests were made but no prosecution. KPS is never effective and not in control. maybe the west has awakened and see the reality in the ground. this is a SLAP ON THEIR FACE, UNMIK, PISG and KFOR ALIKE!!!

Hey cool down, put your euphoria aside and put your logic at work. All you against the Independence of Kosova, could not wait to express your hate.
Every one of you came with your mediocre analyses about what the west is thinking and what the outcome will be regarding Kosova issue, Blag even says that the west set up a trap, he is acting like a prominent world political analyst, that is a wishful thinking Blag.
Blag you have a tendency to turn things to your suit...
Your anger shows by, you posting numerous times for the same topic, that is sign of hate with a passion.
Rod, that is called a "State of Denial" like you said it in comment on another topic.
All of your comments look like you are waging war here, far from civilized discussion that humans supposed to have.
Andrew:" One has to wonder how Albanians became 99% of the population considering they were less than 50% six decades ago"
Only in 1950's 250000 Albanians were expelled by Rankovic. I do not want to comment on every one of your remarks but you leave no option.
2004? Do you know what triggered it? Two minor children that were forced into the river of Ibar, and 19 Albanians got killed. The mistake the Albanians did was that they destroyed some Serb properties in retaliation which I condemn it.
And stop with that terrorism stuff, KLA terrorist organization, Albanian terrorism all that, if KLA was terrorist group, what was Arkan Tigers then, and Serbian paramilitary units?
We, should discuss, what are the advantages of Kosova and Serbia, if Kosova gains Independence, and what the disadvantages are. This is a discussion that should take place here, not the hate, because we not solving anything here by posting comments, PR is not interested in our opinions.
WE should discuss what is better for our future, and what our future should look like.
I think Independent Kosova is the best solution due to a number of reasons, which I will post in the future if you show willingness to have a decent discussion.
This applies to all of you, Blag, Rod Andrew Svojgazda and the newcomer Louise.
Peace and prosperity

All the spin doctors in the world won't get them out of this one. Maybe this protest was just another attempt of sabotage orchestrated by Belgrade?

Dear all,
Please let me try to write a short parallel:
in the rest of the world during manifestations and state holidays, it is usual to have various cultural events.
All we can see in Kosovo is: paint all over, broken windows, UN attacked.

Is that how it's supposed to look one significant state holiday?
Just checking!
Have a nicely painted day.

“I am truly disappointed, not surprised, by the comments of some of you people, and I have to say that you guys lack proper knowledge of political developments. I can understand the question “did we bomb the right side” coming from a Serb, but I really can’t believe that someone else could even think that. Andrew if you think that UN is the hand that has been feeding people of Kosovo, I suggest you go to Kosovo and see for yourself how well they have been fed with BS for the past 7 years and how UN wants this mission to last for centuries just so the employees from the Third World countries would receive enormous salaries without doing anything. As for Teddy, I have two words for you my friend – New Orleans-, you Americans proved your level of democracy there and I have to say I was not surprised.
As for Kosovo, I have been there in 1999 and then again in 2005 and if you people think that there is less democracy there than anywhere in the world then maybe they really bombed the wrong country, cause they should have bombed yours (you never know, maybe you are next).

Hey Kirk,

Why do you find it surprising that a 'non-Serb' would have a 'pro-Serb' opinion?? Is this so impossible for you to comprehend?!

Some people might don't view this as Serb vs Albanian, rather right from wrong. Looking at it simply from a factual point of view, yes, we did bomb the wrong side. A nation was simply protecting its interests against a violent seperatist movement within its own borders. Im quite sure any other nation on the face of this planet would react militarily to such a crisis, yours included. Although most violent seperatist movements are quashed early on, so as to prevent the situation escalating.

And where exactly are you from, if you don't mind me asking? Would you suggest your country be bombed if one of your countrymen held a pro-serb opinion?

... and perhaps Max should ask himself "what prompted the violent separatist movement in Kosovo?".

It indeed boils down to a question of right and wrong.

I am wondering though if anyone (other than Max) thinks that whatever Serbia did in the 90's (and would continue to do today if NATO did not stop them) was right?

I wonder if hundreds of thousands of killed and missing non-Serbs in former Yugoslavia areas would agree with them.

We are only referring to the victims of the wars of the 1990s (without going back to Serbia's actions in the Balkan Wars of the early 20th century).

Dear Max,

If you read my comment carefully you would see clearly that I didn’t find surprising the fact that somebody could have a pro-Serb opinion, but rather the fact how misinformed some people are (and you are yet another proof to that fact). I don’t know that much about separatist movements in Kosovo before the war (obviously you as a Serb know more about that) but I remember hundreds of thousands of people, including children and elderly people fleeing in the mountains and not from any separatist movements but from Yugoslav soldiers and Serb paramilitaries who left nothing but destruction in that area. Maybe were you come from, you saw this from a different perspective but I am very sceptical that you can clearly distinguish “right from wrong”. As for bombing my country, I don’t think that it should be bombed for holding a pro-Serb opinion but it should be bombed if it held a pro-Milosevic opinion for decades.

FYI I’m Dutch

You answered your own question Albion.

Arkan and his thuggish Tigers were a state sponsered paramilitary force .. thus not terrorist.

The KLA/UCK were a seperatist organisation funded by drugs and prostitution across the world. Not my words but the words of the UN who pronounced them thus in 1998.

Hey Guys,

To understand why these people are demonstrating you should be a bit more objective and analyze why? Are they stupid? No. You can say they are people who need freedom. The people of Kosovo (the Albanian absolute majority for centuries) have suffered a lot. NATO intervened to stop etnich cleansing commited by Serbia, which had a 'NATIONAL PROJECT' for one century to expell, kill, and eliminate Albanian population in Kosovo and to colonize this territory by Serbs. Fortunately this national project, which was composed by the Academy of Sciences of Serbia and the majority of Serbian intellectualls and elites was stopped by the NATO intervention. But this did not stop the suffering of these people, their rights are still violated. They don't have right to express their will. UNMIK is a large burocratic corrupted structure of the people coming from all over the world that care only about money and their personal interest. Since they're not elected, they are not responsible to the people of Kosova. What do they do? NOTHING: Steal money, organize crime, prostitution, drugs. YES, its true.
They don't make strategic planning for economic development...the economy is ruined...70 % of the people are unemployed!!! Imagine if in France, Germany, USA, Turkey or wherever else there is such a great number of unemployed. Please imagine!!!...People of Kosova are more calm than they should be. Since seven years people are being killed and the UN Police did never find the prepetrators. Why? Because they are not interested to make progress in Kosova. They want to last their mandate as much as possible. So they do this by commiting crimes, corruption etc. Imagine, 1 BILLION Euros were donated in Kosova Electrical Coorporation which is led by UNMIK, and citizens still do not have electricity! Nobody gave responsibility, excuding one German who was found guilty in the Court in Germany for having 5 million euros in his bank account, money of KEK.
There were about 13 000 Albanians killed brutally, including men, women, children and elderly in the massacres of Serbia. Many are still missing. There were thousands of Albanian dead bodies in the Sava river and Danub and Serbia still rejects returning these bodies to their homeland. UNMIK did not do anything to arrest the criminals who killed these 13.000 Albanians, burned 120.000 houses and expelled 1 million out of Kosova.
People realised that nobody cares for them, so they want to be free to rule themselves democratically. We are having negotiations with a State that just 7 years ago killed us, raped us, burned everything...and the score of these negotiatios do not satisfy the victims of Kosova, and do not recognize the will of the people of Kosova to be free. So people are frustrated, they have no trust in anyone, and the UNMIK differs from Serbia only in not commiting crimes and there is no violation as before. UNMIK is suffocating the people of Kosova...we want to get rid of these guys from Bangladesh, India, Zimbabwe, Russia, Europe etc. We want to live free and to construct our future in our way. Who wants to help us is warmly welcomed, but who does not respect us will have the fate of UNMIK.

Uh yeah Kirk, about all of the Albanians who fled Kosovo during the bombing, I think you're way off. It is a proven fact that Albanians did not start leaving Kosovo en mass until after the Nato bombing campaign began. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of these Albanians were running from the Serbs.

Nato had nearly 2,000 aircraft blanketing Kosovo on a daily basis with 3,000 pound cluster bombs, depleted uranium munitions, and so on, from 35,000 feet in the air. Furthermore, Nato had hundreds, if not thousands of personnel monitoring the ground in Kosovo with their satellites, looking for any sign of movement (of serb forces) to which they could direct their bombers. The 40,000 JNA defenders in Kosovo, spent most of their time during the bombing entrenched in the mountains, and keeping out of sight.
When they weren't hiding from Nato planes, the JNA was busy fighting the remenants of KLA forces.

I'm not by any means saying that no Serb soldier committed attrocities in Kosovo, but the fact remains that the JNA didn't have the opportunity, time, or resources to conduct ethnic cleansing on the scale that Albanians and Nato has claimed, because they were too busy protecting their own lives.

Seriously what sounds more plausible to you:

That the serb army of 40,000, while under constant attack from terrorist guerillas, and the combined air forces of 19 of the worlds most powerful countries, somehow still managed to find the time to oust 1 million people (many of whom were hostile toward them and armed).

or

That 1 million civillians fled Kosovo to avoid the widespread destruction of an massive and indiscriminate aerial bombing campaign, and I might add, probably the largest such campaign in history.

To anyone with a little common sense and an unbiased opinion, I think the answer is quite clear. The Majority of Albanians who fled Kosovo, were running from Nato Bombs, and not from the Serbs.

To Constantin Gregoric,

If unemployment in Serbia is less than 15 % is great! But, you should tell that to Presevo Valley Albanians who are facing 90% unemployment in a such a properous Serbia.

That is a real disgrace, Constantin! Wouln't you agree?

Xhafer,

You did it again Rod,
Albanians were running away from NATO bombs, what a farce.
Actually the JNA soldiers, paramilitary and Serbian police were hiding behind those long lines of civilians. The purpose was to get cover and also to rob them first and second chase all of them from Kosova. Operation plan " Horse Shoe' was activated in Belgrade immediately after first bomb fell on Serbia. This is the truth and the facts.

Dear Sean,

Let me use your approach to debate: LOL what you say is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! Now for the reality: You really need to update yourself on history, and not your revisionist writing style. You may be able to find the information you lack in your local library, as I urge the readers of this post to do. The University of Texas has this information on their library website. The number quoted from 1981 has been growing at the same rate, which is not necessarily consistent with the birth rate there.

God bless you too!

billy

Agim,

It was the KLA hiding behind the civilians. It is well known, now, that the KLA urged the people to leave Kosovo in convoys by 'scaring' them into thinking the 'serbs were coming' in order to gain support for their cause.

It would be a military catastrophe for serb paramilitary to 'hide' behind civilian lines. And this is not due to falling bombs, but due to unknown and uncertain KLA elements hiding within the civilian population.

Rod Rod Rod, here you are again so naive and so funny.
I just wanted to thank B92 for giving us the opportunity to comment and I must say that I am quite disappointed to see what many of you anti-albanians say. But again thats your opinion only. I look forward to elections in serbia on 21st Jan and hope that serbs living in serbia will think twice before they vote.

Great reading. Thanks guys and gals. There is truth in every post, and then some bias. I, personally think that Rodney King should become the new PM for Kosovo, so that the phrase 'Why can't we all get along' should ring true. Eliminate the war criminals in power, like Ceku, Thaci, and Hardinaj and you might see reconciliation and even acceptance. The Serbs did send Milosevic and his henchmen to the Hague. You cannot hide behind that 'defending the homeland' facade. These guys are criminals and must be punished.

Joe, you make some excellent points. The KLA did indeed rob Albanian refugees, both inside Kosovo, and also in northern Albania. I remember watching when this was reported on C-SPAN in June of 1999.

To Arber: I stand behind everything I've said here, and it's not because I'm Anti-Albanian, it's because I'm pro-truth. It's not my fault that Albanians in Kosovo were terrorized by their own (the KLA), nor is it my fault that you can't accept that.

RE:

Unemployment in Serbia is less than 15 % is great! But, you should tell that to Presevo Valley Albanians who are facing 90% unemployment in a such a properous Serbia.

That is a real disgrace, Constantin! Wouln't you agree?

Xhafer,
(Xhafer,, 29 November 2006, 15:19)

Mr. Xhafer,

It was the "Albanian" Flag day in the Presevo valley, the Serbian flag was brought down. You should ask the Albanian Presevo municipal government why 90% Albanians are not working.

Yep, the Serbs were the only ones who managed to get rid of their war-time tyrant. Croatia and Bosnia were lucky enough to have them drop dead, but it is unlikely that they would have deposed them.

To Constantin,

Good question Mr. Gregoric.

The answer is that's the exact reasoning why three leading parties, Presevo Municipal Government, and the Mayor, brought down the Serbian flag.

Cheers,

Xhafer,

well guys i saw pix of the protest and news items. i was surprised why local authorities have to wait till the damage is done before acting. now everybody has a line for himslef in the papers. its like in the movies that the police arrive when the crimet is finished. funny isn't it?

One has to wonder how Albanians became 99% of the population considering they were less than 50% six decades ago. If thats not ethnic cleansing, then i dont know what is. They've started biting the hand that feeds them now (UN). Don't they know this only shows the world their TRUE colors? Someone should let them know they can't start attacking the very people who gave them what they have now. I'm starting to question whether we've bombed the wrong side.

Hilarious ! This shows the true face of the dark side. They throw stones against the one who feeds them. Without UN they would be in the mud without anything. Like one British diplomat said this afternoon in Pristina: "Independence, well, does anyone believe in that anymore ?" He is right, there will not be any independence for sure. Wait and see.

Andrew, I'm convinced that we bombed the wrong side.

Is this a taste of what's to come for UNMIK? Independence and self-determination have been won through negotiation, not through whining and temper tantrums like spoiled children. Kurti obviously lacks any maturity and experience in understanding politics and will most assuredly hurt the K-Albanian PR campaign on the international stage.

To Andrew: Read first then comment: when they said 99 %, they referred to the people (Albanians, Serbs etc) who do not work at the government. 50 years ago according to Yugoslavian statistics, 77 % of Kosovo’s population was Albanians.

Teddy DC, there will be Independence for sure, just wait and see. And why not, join them in January when they celebrated the Independence, and the creation of a new, real multiethnic state.

Rod, how can you say that you are convinced that you (talking on behalf go who?) bombed wrong side? Is that because you do not like to see a democratic Kosovo? A country which allows demonstrations, protest is a real democracy. Even if we disagree with those protesting, we have to protect everyone’s right to express their thoughts. The most basic right.

While I agree the people have a right to demostrate, they do not have a right to engage in destruction of property which is what they are doing.

Also, these kinds of actions are not going to make the Serbian population feel safe.

If you want a truly stable country after independence, you're going to need to work on making the Serbian population feel safe. If you do not, its only going to cause further conflicts in the future.

Now is not a good time for such demostrations, for either side. If a small number of people got carried away and started another 2004 style riot, it would really hurt the independence movement and set relations in the region back 10 years.

Oliver:

Your statistics are way off. Albanians achieved 77% population according to the 1981 SFRY census. This is 25 years ago, not fifty. The population increased from 916k (1971 census) to 1226k (1981 census) after Tito opened the boarders and there was a rush of illegal immigration. This is a 34% population explosion in 10 years! This number also does not include illegals who didn't get counted!

The population also skewed during WWII while some Nazi-allied ethnic albanian groups cleansed Serbs from the area.

The Albanians are being set up. The West is purposely sabotaging the chance at independence... the Albanian leadership knows it... and has instructed it's followers to do this. Just look at the events of the past 4 weeks and this will become abundantly clear. Independence is NOT coming anytme soon. Serbia has outflanked the West with passage of the Constitution & the Russian wildcard... and the West knows it. The West has nothing to force Serbia to "play ball." All of this was fairly predictable months ago... but everyone thought Kostunica was a fool (instead, he is proving to be quite wise)

Matthew I do not ether like the demonstrations, but Kosovo wants to be a democracy and in order to be that they have to respect”freedom of expression”.

Demonstrations, protests are not typically Kosovo. We had this kind of demonstrations many times here in Western Europe. Kosovo’s neighbour in the south, Greece, has this kind of demonstrations and protest several times a year.

Peace

this is obviously a manufactured episode designed to get across to UNMIK that should independence be significantly delayed or denied it will have big civil protests on its hands.
the net result of this manufactured episode will be moot: stronger voices for "independence"... but also stronger voices for "no independence." should the episode escalate, indep. will lose support b/c that is very easy to label as blackmail. in K, violence used to pay... but not anymore.

To Swoj Gazda,

Why don't you call Serbians-Serbiacs. Your ironic way of calling Albaninans-Albaniacs (Which means Maniacs for those who know the meaning behind it) is a pure hateful nonsense. Everyone in a democratic country should have the rights to protest! Albanians are right! UN has brought them nothing more than misery. For those, who say that UNMIK feeds Kosovo population is another absurdity at its worst. Almost every Albanian family has two or three members working in the west. Look at the private structures in Kosovo. They probably leave a lot better than Serbiacs.

Xhafer,

I feel a big Deja vú right now...maybe a new 2004 riot? now the west and rest of the europe see whats happening in kosovo demonstrations and so on, and threats "if we dont get indepedence we will do this and this"... thats not democrasy!! thats Terrorist act

Oliver: "And why not, join them in January when they celebrated the Independence, and the creation of a new, real multiethnic state."

Are you joking??? Independence seeking Kosovo Albanians certainly do not want any other groups living in Kosovo.

I would say that I am sure we bombed the wrong side, but people are people, and I would never advocate bombing civillians under any circumstance.

But when there was a separatist uprising other countries should have supported the sovereign state, and could therefore have had an influence on containing events on the ground. Instead of which tthey used the KLA, a terrorist group, as their land army. Now their 'friends' are demanding promises to be kept which can't be kept.

How I wish this sham was exposed on an international level!

L

Oliver,

I agree that everyone has the right to express their thoughts, and peaceful protest is certainly no
exception to that rule.
However, acts of
vandalism, destruction of
property, throwing paint bombs at people,etc... are violent, not peaceful. Violence is unacceptable in any democratic society. Your right to express yourself, doesn't give you permission to jeporadize the safety and livelihood of others.
No one has that right. I suggest that you learn what democracy really means Ollie, before you accuse others of "not wanting a democratic Kosovo."

It is me again

Show some pictures from the demonstration, and just wanted to add that I condemn what happened today in Pristina. Yes to peaceful protest but NO to violent protests.

To Louise: Once again I have to give lessons on democracy. According to a Serbia’s Government website 95 % of Kosovo’s population are Albanians. That means that they can decide the future of Kosovo as long as they respect the human rights of all people of Kosovo. This is democracy in action. Wouldn’t it been undemocratic, unprecedented to let 5 % of the population of Kosovo decide the future of this province?

I am very surprised about how good some countries are treating Serbia, the only country in Europe helping and protecting war criminals. Search Mladic, Karadic if you want to read more.

Peace in the Balkans. Say no to nationalism

TO Xhafer,
(Xhafer,, 28 November 2006, 19:04)

The Unemployment rate in Kosovo is over 75% , of course this includes ALL of the Serbs who make up less than 5% of Kosovo becuase they have been purged of there jobs from the Albanian Majority.

The Serbian unemployment rate is now in it's lowest levels in years, around the 15% and making strides.

Meanwhile, the Albanians continue to illegally enter Greece and commit crimes.

The right to demonstrate does not mean destroying property, over 100 Serbian Orthodox monasteries have been razed to the ground by the Albanians. Those same monasteries that offered refuge to Albanian civilians when attacked by certain Serbian paramiliaties.

Not only monasteries, but Orthodox gravesites have been damaged also, a disgrace.

Blag, you are a master in conspiracy theories.
Have you written any science fiction books?
Take this as a compliment!!

That's what happens in front of the White House almost everyday by the protesters of Anti-Irak. They daily throw paint bombs, write graffity. Do I think that these Americans are terrorists. Definetly not! They are just as patriotic for standing up against a wrongful war.

To billy!

You have made by far the most hilarious comment! This is your comment: 'Albanians achieved 77% population according to the 1981 SFRY census. This is 25 years ago, not fifty. The population increased from 916k (1971 census) to 1226k (1981 census) after Tito opened the boarders and there was a rush of illegal immigration. This is a 34% population explosion in 10 years! This number also does not include illegals who didn't get counted!
The population also skewed during WWII while some Nazi-allied ethnic albanian groups cleansed Serbs from the area.'
(billy, 28 November 2006, 18:52)... 'The border between Yugoslavia and Albania was probably more guarded than thet of North Korea and South Korea today... '

Albainains have always been a majority in this part of the world. besides the life did not start in the 1300s when the serbs claim this part of the world as theirs. and as far as demonstrtions i do not support them but at the same time they have the right to do so....i do not agree with the vandalism though and any other means of violence. billy please read the history before you make a pathetis comment like that..
god bless you
sean

Rod, the demonstrators have expressed their anger as many demonstrators have done across europe for the past ten years. French president got several eggs into his face. Arnold got a hot pot pie on his face as he was giving a speech in Oakland. The latest news says no one was hurt and demostrators went home.

This demonstrators were not protesting against Serbia. They were protesting against UNMIK and against those leaders you often call terrorists.

So, your criticism is utterly out of place.

My understanding, and it explicitly is reported so in the news piece that Kurti said, "We are 99 percent, and they are only 1 percent, sitting in their offices." Clearly, he is talking about Kosovar and Unmik officials.

Well Well Well, I think everybody in the world knew this would happen. These protesters have no respect for anybodies law. When the Australian government opened its arms to refugees it did so with welcoming smiles. Instead the Albanian "guests" robbed shop keepers, ignored police request and on two occasions molested female councillors. Now they are abusing the UN men and women who risk their lives for others.

well serbs would know best what violence is so all of these comments from serbs should be listened to.

There is no doubt that we (the US) made a terrible mistake here. Kosovo is part of Serbia and should remain that way. I hope, someday, that my country learns that it needs to mind its own business!

99% Albanian population was not reached by democratic or peacefull means and did not start 1999. Refusing to live by law of the country they migrated to, very simply will not work. It can only be used by nasty polititians to set a time bomb for the future where once again people will suffer.

Some of you who say "We bombed the wrong side," are really giving the green light to future dictators like Milosevic. This is also an insult to 10,000 dead Kosovo Albanians and Serb civilians.

If you are looking for Gandi forms of protests in Ballkans. There will never be any. Nobody's dead! So, what's the big deal? We have had quite a few similiar protests in Serbia. As a Serbian democrat, I definetly do not share the same opinion with Blag, Rod, and Xhafer.

The only way for a lasting peace is understanding and hopefully future brotherhood between Albanians and Serbs.

They have no other place to go and neither do we. Ballkans is the only place we can call home whether we live separatly or together.

Kosovo Albanians have attacked the UN on this day. How much more violent can they get, and how much more can people of Kosovo and people of Serbia tolerate this?

I have noticed that the majority of Serbian commentators here at B92 posting talk as if it's the end of the world because some Albanians have chosen to express their displeasure with current Kosovo government and UNMIK by protesting through the streets of Prishtina.

I am a lot more surprised of those writing from abroad such as:(Blag, Rod, Princip, etc.) It's hard to believe that you who claim to be born and raised in those countries,at the same time, seem to be furnished with such a poor understanding of the democratic fundamentals in a society.

Protesting is one of the basic rights that democratic societies are proud of.

Do you remember Anti-Vietnam protests, LA Riots, Anti-Globalization protests in Seattle, Now daily protests against the war in Irak.

Protesters, whether in France, USA, South Korea, Japan, or in Kosovo, they all use spray paint bottles, burn tires, or paint graffiti.

"Only a fool would rush into immediately calling them all Terrorists".

Alban Castro,

Easy guys, only few windows broken! No one died! People in Kosova are frustrated, living in a lie, they have been promised a better life.You know one thing guys, can you please start treating kosovan albanians as a human beings, can you please take them as a co-citizens, understand that they have a right to live. Whats happenned today for me as a born kosovan albanian is not acceptable, throwing stones at UNMIK buildings thats just not on, there are ways to make a point and I think this organisation are not accepted by majority of kosovan albanians. As for "feeding" the Kosova thats not true, UNMIK are a useless organisation with fat pockets who don't care about people of Kosova!!! It's a pitty that Kosovan People can't decide about they future! About Serbian people being more scared, thats nonsense, it's not all about Serbian people, they are not special and shouldn't be treated like one! It is important that all Kosovans have a right for a better life and don't forget that none of the countries these days are safe to live, what happened to US, UK, even in our "democratic" Serbia killings are happening. So you can say anything about safety in Kosova but I think Kosovan serbs are safer in Kosova then anywhere else.Let's please try something new ,let's try respect each other rather then not excepting each other. I am always for PEACE and I know that one day this will happen. Peace and Love to all Human Beings.

Well they have done it again. Thank Albin for making sure that you were foolish enough to get a group people to go protest and destroy property to again appear on CNN to show the world how foolish people can be when you send a bunch of messages or go to chat rooms and tell people to protest and bad thing about is they go and eat a bunch of tear gas and then say it is good? If the UN left Kosovo today along with all NGO's the umemployment rate would skyrocket and government would collapse because no one has a job and UNMIK is not there to provide them. Today was real wake up call for UNMIK. If i had a say i would pack UN move out and let them figure everything out for themselves. Don't come to the World bank looking for a handout since those smart guys like Mr Kurti has all the answer. Why do they have so many albanians working abroad because there are no jobs and the ones who stay here is because they get money sent from Germany and other countries that have them working. Furthermore for those who believe they are smart i thought the 2004 riots would give kosovo a wake up call unfortunately it did not. Winter is coming, be careful what you wish for it may come true. Camp Bondsteel could be relocated to Serbia and then what would u do? In closing for those who live in kosovo and presevo, don't listen to those fools who believe the sword will solve everything they will be the ones running to Blace and claiming to be heros yet again.

Tito opened the border??? The most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

The border between Kosovo and Albania was the most controlled border in the world (something like the North Korea/South Korea border). Not only people, but the radio and tv broadcasts were being jammed by the Yugoslav side as well. Children are still being killed by the mines that were placed there by the Yugoslavs throughout the years.

You have to understand that until mid 80's, it was the whole Yugoslavia that was united against what they called the Albanian separatism. Then, Slovenia and Croatia, when they realized that it is not the Albanian separatism that they are preventing, but they were aiding with the Serb expansionism, they withdrew their police units.

There were small groups of immigrants from Albania (less than 500) that made it to Kosovo, and most of them were recruited to go back to Albania as Yugoslav spies. Those that did not want to do that were forced out of Kosovo into usually Western Europe, since the ethnic balance was always a concern of Serbia.

On the other hand, there are about a million Kosovar (people that trace their roots to Kosovo, not immigrants from Albania) immigrants presently in the United States, Western Europe, Asia. Since Serbia loves this area so much, why it never mentioned how it facilitated (read forced) their migration from Kosovo to these third countries? How about the Kosovars' deportation to Turkey between the two world wars?

Clearly, Serbia wants Kosovo without Albanians.

The world has seen Serbia’s ambitions. As a result of those ambitions, the world is united on their stand, which is that “Kosovo will never go under Serbia’s jurisdiction”.

Andrew, Rod, Lousie... Kosovo was the fire in the Europe, don't ask for it again. It's just in your neighborhood... After the massacres on albanian population 1998-99, there is a percentage of albanian population who is conviced that negotiations with serbs are absolutely unnecessary.
In International Public Law we have something that is called "unconditional surrending" used (at least) with Japan that stoped the WWII. Regarding Kosovo, this mechanism should be used also with the serbs. Masaccres tooked place also in other parts of ex-YU. Just remember Vukovar, Srebrenica.
So, from a man who lost 16 members (cut on a throat and burned) which were killed on the front of him, don't wait to accept ruling of the serbian state. That is impposible and the evil that killed in Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Kosovo is not going to be repeated again.

1. Rod, Andrew, Louise how can you think that "you" have bombed the wrong side!! didn't we all see enough people dying in Bosnia, Croatia few years back?? Remember, Milosevic and his supporters didn't only kill "albaniacs" they killed their own brothers and sisters who speak the same language, I don't think we need to say anymore on that one.
2. I am an ALBANIAN and I don't want an independent Kosova/o without other ethnic groups who consider Kosova/o to be their homeland.
3. The demonstrations from yesterday, i don't support them at all I just hope that International community will be wise enough when the decision on status is taken.
4. Blag, Aca/SWE Serbia and any other powerful countries may threaten all day long that there will be no independence for us, but let me remind you that 100% of us Albanians here strongly believe that there is no way back for us. As for Kostunica being smart, I laughed at that....thats what you think anyway. Aca, unfortunately it is Belgrade's diplomacy that threatens every day not us pls. be reasonable. 2004 riots I don't think it will happen anytime in the near future, but if UNMIK keeps Kosova/o isolated = NO STATUS for few more years then I would not be surprised to see riots again.
5. Billy, don't be ridiculous , I did know we were such an attractive place to have people immigrating here to increase the population nor that we Albanians ever had the power in the past to conduct any ethnic cleansing in order to achieve a majority population of albainans in Kosova/o. I often see comments that Kosova/o is the heart of Serbia and I laugh, it makes me think which part of the Serbia's body were Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia I hope you know what I mean. Let me tell you how the Albanian population increased: My grand grand parents from fathers side had 12 children, from mothers side 14. My parents from father's side had 6 children, from mother's side 8, now you do the math. And last but not least, Kosova was part of Albania as the history proves.
good day to all of you.

the demonstrators have been spoiled since the beginning. arrests were made but no prosecution. KPS is never effective and not in control. maybe the west has awakened and see the reality in the ground. this is a SLAP ON THEIR FACE, UNMIK, PISG and KFOR ALIKE!!!

Hey cool down, put your euphoria aside and put your logic at work. All you against the Independence of Kosova, could not wait to express your hate.
Every one of you came with your mediocre analyses about what the west is thinking and what the outcome will be regarding Kosova issue, Blag even says that the west set up a trap, he is acting like a prominent world political analyst, that is a wishful thinking Blag.
Blag you have a tendency to turn things to your suit...
Your anger shows by, you posting numerous times for the same topic, that is sign of hate with a passion.
Rod, that is called a "State of Denial" like you said it in comment on another topic.
All of your comments look like you are waging war here, far from civilized discussion that humans supposed to have.
Andrew:" One has to wonder how Albanians became 99% of the population considering they were less than 50% six decades ago"
Only in 1950's 250000 Albanians were expelled by Rankovic. I do not want to comment on every one of your remarks but you leave no option.
2004? Do you know what triggered it? Two minor children that were forced into the river of Ibar, and 19 Albanians got killed. The mistake the Albanians did was that they destroyed some Serb properties in retaliation which I condemn it.
And stop with that terrorism stuff, KLA terrorist organization, Albanian terrorism all that, if KLA was terrorist group, what was Arkan Tigers then, and Serbian paramilitary units?
We, should discuss, what are the advantages of Kosova and Serbia, if Kosova gains Independence, and what the disadvantages are. This is a discussion that should take place here, not the hate, because we not solving anything here by posting comments, PR is not interested in our opinions.
WE should discuss what is better for our future, and what our future should look like.
I think Independent Kosova is the best solution due to a number of reasons, which I will post in the future if you show willingness to have a decent discussion.
This applies to all of you, Blag, Rod Andrew Svojgazda and the newcomer Louise.
Peace and prosperity

All the spin doctors in the world won't get them out of this one. Maybe this protest was just another attempt of sabotage orchestrated by Belgrade?

Dear all,
Please let me try to write a short parallel:
in the rest of the world during manifestations and state holidays, it is usual to have various cultural events.
All we can see in Kosovo is: paint all over, broken windows, UN attacked.

Is that how it's supposed to look one significant state holiday?
Just checking!
Have a nicely painted day.

“I am truly disappointed, not surprised, by the comments of some of you people, and I have to say that you guys lack proper knowledge of political developments. I can understand the question “did we bomb the right side” coming from a Serb, but I really can’t believe that someone else could even think that. Andrew if you think that UN is the hand that has been feeding people of Kosovo, I suggest you go to Kosovo and see for yourself how well they have been fed with BS for the past 7 years and how UN wants this mission to last for centuries just so the employees from the Third World countries would receive enormous salaries without doing anything. As for Teddy, I have two words for you my friend – New Orleans-, you Americans proved your level of democracy there and I have to say I was not surprised.
As for Kosovo, I have been there in 1999 and then again in 2005 and if you people think that there is less democracy there than anywhere in the world then maybe they really bombed the wrong country, cause they should have bombed yours (you never know, maybe you are next).

Hey Kirk,

Why do you find it surprising that a 'non-Serb' would have a 'pro-Serb' opinion?? Is this so impossible for you to comprehend?!

Some people might don't view this as Serb vs Albanian, rather right from wrong. Looking at it simply from a factual point of view, yes, we did bomb the wrong side. A nation was simply protecting its interests against a violent seperatist movement within its own borders. Im quite sure any other nation on the face of this planet would react militarily to such a crisis, yours included. Although most violent seperatist movements are quashed early on, so as to prevent the situation escalating.

And where exactly are you from, if you don't mind me asking? Would you suggest your country be bombed if one of your countrymen held a pro-serb opinion?

... and perhaps Max should ask himself "what prompted the violent separatist movement in Kosovo?".

It indeed boils down to a question of right and wrong.

I am wondering though if anyone (other than Max) thinks that whatever Serbia did in the 90's (and would continue to do today if NATO did not stop them) was right?

I wonder if hundreds of thousands of killed and missing non-Serbs in former Yugoslavia areas would agree with them.

We are only referring to the victims of the wars of the 1990s (without going back to Serbia's actions in the Balkan Wars of the early 20th century).

Dear Max,

If you read my comment carefully you would see clearly that I didn’t find surprising the fact that somebody could have a pro-Serb opinion, but rather the fact how misinformed some people are (and you are yet another proof to that fact). I don’t know that much about separatist movements in Kosovo before the war (obviously you as a Serb know more about that) but I remember hundreds of thousands of people, including children and elderly people fleeing in the mountains and not from any separatist movements but from Yugoslav soldiers and Serb paramilitaries who left nothing but destruction in that area. Maybe were you come from, you saw this from a different perspective but I am very sceptical that you can clearly distinguish “right from wrong”. As for bombing my country, I don’t think that it should be bombed for holding a pro-Serb opinion but it should be bombed if it held a pro-Milosevic opinion for decades.

FYI I’m Dutch

You answered your own question Albion.

Arkan and his thuggish Tigers were a state sponsered paramilitary force .. thus not terrorist.

The KLA/UCK were a seperatist organisation funded by drugs and prostitution across the world. Not my words but the words of the UN who pronounced them thus in 1998.

Hey Guys,

To understand why these people are demonstrating you should be a bit more objective and analyze why? Are they stupid? No. You can say they are people who need freedom. The people of Kosovo (the Albanian absolute majority for centuries) have suffered a lot. NATO intervened to stop etnich cleansing commited by Serbia, which had a 'NATIONAL PROJECT' for one century to expell, kill, and eliminate Albanian population in Kosovo and to colonize this territory by Serbs. Fortunately this national project, which was composed by the Academy of Sciences of Serbia and the majority of Serbian intellectualls and elites was stopped by the NATO intervention. But this did not stop the suffering of these people, their rights are still violated. They don't have right to express their will. UNMIK is a large burocratic corrupted structure of the people coming from all over the world that care only about money and their personal interest. Since they're not elected, they are not responsible to the people of Kosova. What do they do? NOTHING: Steal money, organize crime, prostitution, drugs. YES, its true.
They don't make strategic planning for economic development...the economy is ruined...70 % of the people are unemployed!!! Imagine if in France, Germany, USA, Turkey or wherever else there is such a great number of unemployed. Please imagine!!!...People of Kosova are more calm than they should be. Since seven years people are being killed and the UN Police did never find the prepetrators. Why? Because they are not interested to make progress in Kosova. They want to last their mandate as much as possible. So they do this by commiting crimes, corruption etc. Imagine, 1 BILLION Euros were donated in Kosova Electrical Coorporation which is led by UNMIK, and citizens still do not have electricity! Nobody gave responsibility, excuding one German who was found guilty in the Court in Germany for having 5 million euros in his bank account, money of KEK.
There were about 13 000 Albanians killed brutally, including men, women, children and elderly in the massacres of Serbia. Many are still missing. There were thousands of Albanian dead bodies in the Sava river and Danub and Serbia still rejects returning these bodies to their homeland. UNMIK did not do anything to arrest the criminals who killed these 13.000 Albanians, burned 120.000 houses and expelled 1 million out of Kosova.
People realised that nobody cares for them, so they want to be free to rule themselves democratically. We are having negotiations with a State that just 7 years ago killed us, raped us, burned everything...and the score of these negotiatios do not satisfy the victims of Kosova, and do not recognize the will of the people of Kosova to be free. So people are frustrated, they have no trust in anyone, and the UNMIK differs from Serbia only in not commiting crimes and there is no violation as before. UNMIK is suffocating the people of Kosova...we want to get rid of these guys from Bangladesh, India, Zimbabwe, Russia, Europe etc. We want to live free and to construct our future in our way. Who wants to help us is warmly welcomed, but who does not respect us will have the fate of UNMIK.

Uh yeah Kirk, about all of the Albanians who fled Kosovo during the bombing, I think you're way off. It is a proven fact that Albanians did not start leaving Kosovo en mass until after the Nato bombing campaign began. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of these Albanians were running from the Serbs.

Nato had nearly 2,000 aircraft blanketing Kosovo on a daily basis with 3,000 pound cluster bombs, depleted uranium munitions, and so on, from 35,000 feet in the air. Furthermore, Nato had hundreds, if not thousands of personnel monitoring the ground in Kosovo with their satellites, looking for any sign of movement (of serb forces) to which they could direct their bombers. The 40,000 JNA defenders in Kosovo, spent most of their time during the bombing entrenched in the mountains, and keeping out of sight.
When they weren't hiding from Nato planes, the JNA was busy fighting the remenants of KLA forces.

I'm not by any means saying that no Serb soldier committed attrocities in Kosovo, but the fact remains that the JNA didn't have the opportunity, time, or resources to conduct ethnic cleansing on the scale that Albanians and Nato has claimed, because they were too busy protecting their own lives.

Seriously what sounds more plausible to you:

That the serb army of 40,000, while under constant attack from terrorist guerillas, and the combined air forces of 19 of the worlds most powerful countries, somehow still managed to find the time to oust 1 million people (many of whom were hostile toward them and armed).

or

That 1 million civillians fled Kosovo to avoid the widespread destruction of an massive and indiscriminate aerial bombing campaign, and I might add, probably the largest such campaign in history.

To anyone with a little common sense and an unbiased opinion, I think the answer is quite clear. The Majority of Albanians who fled Kosovo, were running from Nato Bombs, and not from the Serbs.

To Constantin Gregoric,

If unemployment in Serbia is less than 15 % is great! But, you should tell that to Presevo Valley Albanians who are facing 90% unemployment in a such a properous Serbia.

That is a real disgrace, Constantin! Wouln't you agree?

Xhafer,

You did it again Rod,
Albanians were running away from NATO bombs, what a farce.
Actually the JNA soldiers, paramilitary and Serbian police were hiding behind those long lines of civilians. The purpose was to get cover and also to rob them first and second chase all of them from Kosova. Operation plan " Horse Shoe' was activated in Belgrade immediately after first bomb fell on Serbia. This is the truth and the facts.

Dear Sean,

Let me use your approach to debate: LOL what you say is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! Now for the reality: You really need to update yourself on history, and not your revisionist writing style. You may be able to find the information you lack in your local library, as I urge the readers of this post to do. The University of Texas has this information on their library website. The number quoted from 1981 has been growing at the same rate, which is not necessarily consistent with the birth rate there.

God bless you too!

billy

Agim,

It was the KLA hiding behind the civilians. It is well known, now, that the KLA urged the people to leave Kosovo in convoys by 'scaring' them into thinking the 'serbs were coming' in order to gain support for their cause.

It would be a military catastrophe for serb paramilitary to 'hide' behind civilian lines. And this is not due to falling bombs, but due to unknown and uncertain KLA elements hiding within the civilian population.

Rod Rod Rod, here you are again so naive and so funny.
I just wanted to thank B92 for giving us the opportunity to comment and I must say that I am quite disappointed to see what many of you anti-albanians say. But again thats your opinion only. I look forward to elections in serbia on 21st Jan and hope that serbs living in serbia will think twice before they vote.

Great reading. Thanks guys and gals. There is truth in every post, and then some bias. I, personally think that Rodney King should become the new PM for Kosovo, so that the phrase 'Why can't we all get along' should ring true. Eliminate the war criminals in power, like Ceku, Thaci, and Hardinaj and you might see reconciliation and even acceptance. The Serbs did send Milosevic and his henchmen to the Hague. You cannot hide behind that 'defending the homeland' facade. These guys are criminals and must be punished.

Joe, you make some excellent points. The KLA did indeed rob Albanian refugees, both inside Kosovo, and also in northern Albania. I remember watching when this was reported on C-SPAN in June of 1999.

To Arber: I stand behind everything I've said here, and it's not because I'm Anti-Albanian, it's because I'm pro-truth. It's not my fault that Albanians in Kosovo were terrorized by their own (the KLA), nor is it my fault that you can't accept that.

RE:

Unemployment in Serbia is less than 15 % is great! But, you should tell that to Presevo Valley Albanians who are facing 90% unemployment in a such a properous Serbia.

That is a real disgrace, Constantin! Wouln't you agree?

Xhafer,
(Xhafer,, 29 November 2006, 15:19)

Mr. Xhafer,

It was the "Albanian" Flag day in the Presevo valley, the Serbian flag was brought down. You should ask the Albanian Presevo municipal government why 90% Albanians are not working.

Yep, the Serbs were the only ones who managed to get rid of their war-time tyrant. Croatia and Bosnia were lucky enough to have them drop dead, but it is unlikely that they would have deposed them.

To Constantin,

Good question Mr. Gregoric.

The answer is that's the exact reasoning why three leading parties, Presevo Municipal Government, and the Mayor, brought down the Serbian flag.

Cheers,

Xhafer,

well guys i saw pix of the protest and news items. i was surprised why local authorities have to wait till the damage is done before acting. now everybody has a line for himslef in the papers. its like in the movies that the police arrive when the crimet is finished. funny isn't it?