And why I am still sad, because the coin have another side. Truth is only one, as jurnalist you must find it. As we in Croatia said "Lie have a short legs" And mr.Puhovsky use to be slave of only one truth.
As one who didn't live in Yugoslavia but visited there often (with an outsiders perspective and one might say more objectivity) I never ran into Serbian bigotry toward Croats or Slovenes, but I found the opposite all the time. Many of the Croats I met and Slovenes all were biased against Serbs and wanted to know what my "roots" were before they decided how friendly to be -- something I was never asked in more tolerant Serbia. I think that says a lot. Furthermore, there was an established procedure for seceding from Yugoslavia and Slovenia and Croatia, not to mention the rest, didn't follow the procedure. What country on earth -- especially not the U.S. -- would stand back and allow a major part of its territory to secede illegally without reacting at all? Based on her past, one can only imagine the horrors that Croatia would have commited in Serbia had the shoe been on the other foot.
As a teacher, I've been on different forums for years, and I've always witnessed this: Serbs say that Croats are minimizing the facts, and Croats assert that Serbs have a tendency to maximize the stories. Who knows? Horrible crimes have been perpetrated and the amount, according to me, is not the topic. Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks should do what Desmund Tutu did in Africa: A Truth and Reconciliation Commission on all events that happened during WW2 and the Balkan wars. In Africa, in the interest of national healing, hundreds told their terrible stories, along with the confessions of former perpetrators whose unspeakable abuses were absolved on condition of full disclosure. This tremendous national act of will and forgiveness would certainly bring peace and reconciliation between Christians, as a poster wrote. The catholic and Orthodox Churches could be inspired by what Bishop Tutu has done in Africa... and do the same in the Balkans.
Please stop distorting facts from WW2. The number of victims in Jasenovac was never more than 85,000. Thats supported by a number of Jewish agencies. Half the victims were Serbs, the other half were Croats and Croatian Jews. This is the problem, the truth gets bent to suit other people's agendas and all it takes is other fools to sucumb to this kind of propaganda. Serbs too are guilty of crimes during WW2. The Chetniks and Draza were no angels either, they were responsable for the murder of Croat villagers in Dalmatia and Bosniaks in eastern Bosnia. Draza was put to death for these crimes. You waste little time in pointing out the wrong of others but never admit to your Serb crimes. You attacked Croatia and Bosnia in the most brutal way. Deal with it. If there were reprisals then what do you expect. What goes around, comes around as the saying goes.
Firstly the kiiling fields comment was about Osijek and not about entire croatia. typical serb way of victimisation and blowing things out of proportion.
lets not equate Osijek to what crimes were committed by serbs in croatia. several dozen people were killed in osijek which of course is a tragedy and people should be punished but it is nothing compared to killing that occured by JNA and serb paramilitaries.
Jasenovac...people forget that it was croats that also liberated Jasenovac. Nonetheless, it was still terrible what happened and no eqcuses for it. However, unless u were there in ww2, i dont think u can identify too much with what happened not to mention kosovo several hunderd years ago. for example, its a bit like if british identified with battle of Waterloo. yeh it was a battle but doesnt impress anyone. can u imagine if french and brits still fought over territorial rights (even though its actually in belgium). who wouldnt think its stupid and arguements about the battle in kosovo is exactly the same. every country has its important battles and other countries dont really care. which is fair enough. its good to remember and say "oh yeh this happened there" but to have it as a basis for all future conflicts...unbelievable. based on this, croats and bosnians then would have a right to bomb belgrade at some stage in the future. history is there to learn from, not to repeat it. serbs keep mentioning Jasenovac and concentration camps, however they had some camps during the 90's to lock up bosnians and croats.
lets face it, there is no difference between fascism and what happened in 90's. Ustasha also thought they were defending croatia people.
serbs were tricked by milosevic into pre-emptive murder and they did it. Little do people know that Tudjman called serb groups to zagreb to give assurances of their safety. in fact, tudjman signed autonomy for serbs in croatia (Z-4 plan) which serbs refused. in the end they lost everything.
Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, I think you'll find that the last time Croatian forces were on Serbian land was when they tried to help the Serbs defend Kosovo from the Ottomans.
Vladomir...let me first state..I'm a Serb, I'm married to a Serb, and I live in Los Angeles...you will find no greater champion of the Serbian nation in this sea of collective guilt spread by the many. However, the fact still remains that neither community is willing to admit to any wrongs, crimes, and brutalities. No one in their right minds is suggesting Jasenovac with the loss of hundreds of thousands equates to Vukovar. However, the world has forgotten our pain and simply doesn't care what has happened to Serbia in WW2. It is up to Serbs to remember and pray for the souls our kin lost in tragic history of the Balkans..What I suggest is that we move forward, attempt to bridge our common needs and interests...for I'm convinced we have more in common than our differences. If you wish to continue this debate of who killed who more and who's neighbor shot who's dog..and who's mother suffered more when their son was shot, then you go right ahead, and you'll lead to the dead end of no where. Serbia is in my heart and soul, and no one is going to suggest my stance on reconciliation is baseless. Perhaps Vladimir you do not have the courage to admit Serbia and Croatia are not as pure as the wind driven snow...and it's about time to start blaming everyone else for the problems begun and fummed by all.
Mike: are you seriously comparing Vukovar with Jasenovacs? It what sick world is that a fair comparison? the ustashi genocide is the worst thing that ever happened in the Balkans, and your inartful attempt to minimize Ustashi crimes just makes everyone angrier. It's like telling American Indians that what the white man did to them wasn't that big a deal. "can't we all just get along" didn't work for los angeles and it won't work in the Balkans.
The serbs have not forgoten the plan to exteriminate a third, convert a third and drive otu a third of the serbian population from croatia... the serbs did not invade croatia and had every right to rebel from this state whos borders should not be recognized. It was normal to kill between 300,000 and 700,000 serbs in jasenovac, according the croats durring ww2.
I strongly believe Serbs and Croats must forgive each other and move forward in friendship...true friendship. Let's get it out in the open..we brutalized each others communities at every opportunity. I'm not going sit here listing what each side has done.. Jasenovac..Vukovar, death.. we know that each side has committed the most heinous crimes...It's done and criminals need to be brought to justice, whether from the 90's or from the 40's..get them in a cell and throw away the key. Let us vow never to let this happen again...for we have more common issues to unite behind as Christian nations, as nations who wish to move into the European community of nations, defending our common cultural issues.. We have far more in common than our petty differences which has brought nothing but suffering to both nations and people. It's about time these twin brothers started acting in harmony and burry the feud for good.
I know you won't publish this comment, but to say "Croatia in the 1990’s was a place were killing Serbs was normal" is the same as to say that "Europe during World War II was a place were killing Germans was normal". Yes, it all happened beacuse Germans attacked Europe and Serbs attacked Croatia. What did you expect?! Just finally admit: We, Serbs were villains! And stop hiding behind sporadic incidents that are common in every single war in the world!
Mike: are you seriously comparing Vukovar with Jasenovacs? It what sick world is that a fair comparison? the ustashi genocide is the worst thing that ever happened in the Balkans, and your inartful attempt to minimize Ustashi crimes just makes everyone angrier. It's like telling American Indians that what the white man did to them wasn't that big a deal. "can't we all just get along" didn't work for los angeles and it won't work in the Balkans.
As one who didn't live in Yugoslavia but visited there often (with an outsiders perspective and one might say more objectivity) I never ran into Serbian bigotry toward Croats or Slovenes, but I found the opposite all the time. Many of the Croats I met and Slovenes all were biased against Serbs and wanted to know what my "roots" were before they decided how friendly to be -- something I was never asked in more tolerant Serbia. I think that says a lot. Furthermore, there was an established procedure for seceding from Yugoslavia and Slovenia and Croatia, not to mention the rest, didn't follow the procedure. What country on earth -- especially not the U.S. -- would stand back and allow a major part of its territory to secede illegally without reacting at all? Based on her past, one can only imagine the horrors that Croatia would have commited in Serbia had the shoe been on the other foot.
I know you won't publish this comment, but to say "Croatia in the 1990’s was a place were killing Serbs was normal" is the same as to say that "Europe during World War II was a place were killing Germans was normal". Yes, it all happened beacuse Germans attacked Europe and Serbs attacked Croatia. What did you expect?! Just finally admit: We, Serbs were villains! And stop hiding behind sporadic incidents that are common in every single war in the world!
I strongly believe Serbs and Croats must forgive each other and move forward in friendship...true friendship. Let's get it out in the open..we brutalized each others communities at every opportunity. I'm not going sit here listing what each side has done.. Jasenovac..Vukovar, death.. we know that each side has committed the most heinous crimes...It's done and criminals need to be brought to justice, whether from the 90's or from the 40's..get them in a cell and throw away the key. Let us vow never to let this happen again...for we have more common issues to unite behind as Christian nations, as nations who wish to move into the European community of nations, defending our common cultural issues.. We have far more in common than our petty differences which has brought nothing but suffering to both nations and people. It's about time these twin brothers started acting in harmony and burry the feud for good.
The serbs have not forgoten the plan to exteriminate a third, convert a third and drive otu a third of the serbian population from croatia... the serbs did not invade croatia and had every right to rebel from this state whos borders should not be recognized. It was normal to kill between 300,000 and 700,000 serbs in jasenovac, according the croats durring ww2.
Vladomir...let me first state..I'm a Serb, I'm married to a Serb, and I live in Los Angeles...you will find no greater champion of the Serbian nation in this sea of collective guilt spread by the many. However, the fact still remains that neither community is willing to admit to any wrongs, crimes, and brutalities. No one in their right minds is suggesting Jasenovac with the loss of hundreds of thousands equates to Vukovar. However, the world has forgotten our pain and simply doesn't care what has happened to Serbia in WW2. It is up to Serbs to remember and pray for the souls our kin lost in tragic history of the Balkans..What I suggest is that we move forward, attempt to bridge our common needs and interests...for I'm convinced we have more in common than our differences. If you wish to continue this debate of who killed who more and who's neighbor shot who's dog..and who's mother suffered more when their son was shot, then you go right ahead, and you'll lead to the dead end of no where. Serbia is in my heart and soul, and no one is going to suggest my stance on reconciliation is baseless. Perhaps Vladimir you do not have the courage to admit Serbia and Croatia are not as pure as the wind driven snow...and it's about time to start blaming everyone else for the problems begun and fummed by all.
Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, I think you'll find that the last time Croatian forces were on Serbian land was when they tried to help the Serbs defend Kosovo from the Ottomans.
Firstly the kiiling fields comment was about Osijek and not about entire croatia. typical serb way of victimisation and blowing things out of proportion.
lets not equate Osijek to what crimes were committed by serbs in croatia. several dozen people were killed in osijek which of course is a tragedy and people should be punished but it is nothing compared to killing that occured by JNA and serb paramilitaries.
Jasenovac...people forget that it was croats that also liberated Jasenovac. Nonetheless, it was still terrible what happened and no eqcuses for it. However, unless u were there in ww2, i dont think u can identify too much with what happened not to mention kosovo several hunderd years ago. for example, its a bit like if british identified with battle of Waterloo. yeh it was a battle but doesnt impress anyone. can u imagine if french and brits still fought over territorial rights (even though its actually in belgium). who wouldnt think its stupid and arguements about the battle in kosovo is exactly the same. every country has its important battles and other countries dont really care. which is fair enough. its good to remember and say "oh yeh this happened there" but to have it as a basis for all future conflicts...unbelievable. based on this, croats and bosnians then would have a right to bomb belgrade at some stage in the future. history is there to learn from, not to repeat it. serbs keep mentioning Jasenovac and concentration camps, however they had some camps during the 90's to lock up bosnians and croats.
lets face it, there is no difference between fascism and what happened in 90's. Ustasha also thought they were defending croatia people.
serbs were tricked by milosevic into pre-emptive murder and they did it. Little do people know that Tudjman called serb groups to zagreb to give assurances of their safety. in fact, tudjman signed autonomy for serbs in croatia (Z-4 plan) which serbs refused. in the end they lost everything.
Please stop distorting facts from WW2. The number of victims in Jasenovac was never more than 85,000. Thats supported by a number of Jewish agencies. Half the victims were Serbs, the other half were Croats and Croatian Jews. This is the problem, the truth gets bent to suit other people's agendas and all it takes is other fools to sucumb to this kind of propaganda. Serbs too are guilty of crimes during WW2. The Chetniks and Draza were no angels either, they were responsable for the murder of Croat villagers in Dalmatia and Bosniaks in eastern Bosnia. Draza was put to death for these crimes. You waste little time in pointing out the wrong of others but never admit to your Serb crimes. You attacked Croatia and Bosnia in the most brutal way. Deal with it. If there were reprisals then what do you expect. What goes around, comes around as the saying goes.
As a teacher, I've been on different forums for years, and I've always witnessed this: Serbs say that Croats are minimizing the facts, and Croats assert that Serbs have a tendency to maximize the stories. Who knows? Horrible crimes have been perpetrated and the amount, according to me, is not the topic. Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks should do what Desmund Tutu did in Africa: A Truth and Reconciliation Commission on all events that happened during WW2 and the Balkan wars. In Africa, in the interest of national healing, hundreds told their terrible stories, along with the confessions of former perpetrators whose unspeakable abuses were absolved on condition of full disclosure. This tremendous national act of will and forgiveness would certainly bring peace and reconciliation between Christians, as a poster wrote. The catholic and Orthodox Churches could be inspired by what Bishop Tutu has done in Africa... and do the same in the Balkans.
And why I am still sad, because the coin have another side. Truth is only one, as jurnalist you must find it. As we in Croatia said "Lie have a short legs" And mr.Puhovsky use to be slave of only one truth.
I know you won't publish this comment, but to say "Croatia in the 1990’s was a place were killing Serbs was normal" is the same as to say that "Europe during World War II was a place were killing Germans was normal". Yes, it all happened beacuse Germans attacked Europe and Serbs attacked Croatia. What did you expect?! Just finally admit: We, Serbs were villains! And stop hiding behind sporadic incidents that are common in every single war in the world!
I strongly believe Serbs and Croats must forgive each other and move forward in friendship...true friendship. Let's get it out in the open..we brutalized each others communities at every opportunity. I'm not going sit here listing what each side has done.. Jasenovac..Vukovar, death.. we know that each side has committed the most heinous crimes...It's done and criminals need to be brought to justice, whether from the 90's or from the 40's..get them in a cell and throw away the key. Let us vow never to let this happen again...for we have more common issues to unite behind as Christian nations, as nations who wish to move into the European community of nations, defending our common cultural issues.. We have far more in common than our petty differences which has brought nothing but suffering to both nations and people. It's about time these twin brothers started acting in harmony and burry the feud for good.
The serbs have not forgoten the plan to exteriminate a third, convert a third and drive otu a third of the serbian population from croatia... the serbs did not invade croatia and had every right to rebel from this state whos borders should not be recognized. It was normal to kill between 300,000 and 700,000 serbs in jasenovac, according the croats durring ww2.
Mike: are you seriously comparing Vukovar with Jasenovacs? It what sick world is that a fair comparison? the ustashi genocide is the worst thing that ever happened in the Balkans, and your inartful attempt to minimize Ustashi crimes just makes everyone angrier. It's like telling American Indians that what the white man did to them wasn't that big a deal. "can't we all just get along" didn't work for los angeles and it won't work in the Balkans.
Vladomir...let me first state..I'm a Serb, I'm married to a Serb, and I live in Los Angeles...you will find no greater champion of the Serbian nation in this sea of collective guilt spread by the many. However, the fact still remains that neither community is willing to admit to any wrongs, crimes, and brutalities. No one in their right minds is suggesting Jasenovac with the loss of hundreds of thousands equates to Vukovar. However, the world has forgotten our pain and simply doesn't care what has happened to Serbia in WW2. It is up to Serbs to remember and pray for the souls our kin lost in tragic history of the Balkans..What I suggest is that we move forward, attempt to bridge our common needs and interests...for I'm convinced we have more in common than our differences. If you wish to continue this debate of who killed who more and who's neighbor shot who's dog..and who's mother suffered more when their son was shot, then you go right ahead, and you'll lead to the dead end of no where. Serbia is in my heart and soul, and no one is going to suggest my stance on reconciliation is baseless. Perhaps Vladimir you do not have the courage to admit Serbia and Croatia are not as pure as the wind driven snow...and it's about time to start blaming everyone else for the problems begun and fummed by all.
Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, I think you'll find that the last time Croatian forces were on Serbian land was when they tried to help the Serbs defend Kosovo from the Ottomans.
Firstly the kiiling fields comment was about Osijek and not about entire croatia. typical serb way of victimisation and blowing things out of proportion.
lets not equate Osijek to what crimes were committed by serbs in croatia. several dozen people were killed in osijek which of course is a tragedy and people should be punished but it is nothing compared to killing that occured by JNA and serb paramilitaries.
Jasenovac...people forget that it was croats that also liberated Jasenovac. Nonetheless, it was still terrible what happened and no eqcuses for it. However, unless u were there in ww2, i dont think u can identify too much with what happened not to mention kosovo several hunderd years ago. for example, its a bit like if british identified with battle of Waterloo. yeh it was a battle but doesnt impress anyone. can u imagine if french and brits still fought over territorial rights (even though its actually in belgium). who wouldnt think its stupid and arguements about the battle in kosovo is exactly the same. every country has its important battles and other countries dont really care. which is fair enough. its good to remember and say "oh yeh this happened there" but to have it as a basis for all future conflicts...unbelievable. based on this, croats and bosnians then would have a right to bomb belgrade at some stage in the future. history is there to learn from, not to repeat it. serbs keep mentioning Jasenovac and concentration camps, however they had some camps during the 90's to lock up bosnians and croats.
lets face it, there is no difference between fascism and what happened in 90's. Ustasha also thought they were defending croatia people.
serbs were tricked by milosevic into pre-emptive murder and they did it. Little do people know that Tudjman called serb groups to zagreb to give assurances of their safety. in fact, tudjman signed autonomy for serbs in croatia (Z-4 plan) which serbs refused. in the end they lost everything.
Please stop distorting facts from WW2. The number of victims in Jasenovac was never more than 85,000. Thats supported by a number of Jewish agencies. Half the victims were Serbs, the other half were Croats and Croatian Jews. This is the problem, the truth gets bent to suit other people's agendas and all it takes is other fools to sucumb to this kind of propaganda. Serbs too are guilty of crimes during WW2. The Chetniks and Draza were no angels either, they were responsable for the murder of Croat villagers in Dalmatia and Bosniaks in eastern Bosnia. Draza was put to death for these crimes. You waste little time in pointing out the wrong of others but never admit to your Serb crimes. You attacked Croatia and Bosnia in the most brutal way. Deal with it. If there were reprisals then what do you expect. What goes around, comes around as the saying goes.
As a teacher, I've been on different forums for years, and I've always witnessed this: Serbs say that Croats are minimizing the facts, and Croats assert that Serbs have a tendency to maximize the stories. Who knows? Horrible crimes have been perpetrated and the amount, according to me, is not the topic. Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks should do what Desmund Tutu did in Africa: A Truth and Reconciliation Commission on all events that happened during WW2 and the Balkan wars. In Africa, in the interest of national healing, hundreds told their terrible stories, along with the confessions of former perpetrators whose unspeakable abuses were absolved on condition of full disclosure. This tremendous national act of will and forgiveness would certainly bring peace and reconciliation between Christians, as a poster wrote. The catholic and Orthodox Churches could be inspired by what Bishop Tutu has done in Africa... and do the same in the Balkans.
As one who didn't live in Yugoslavia but visited there often (with an outsiders perspective and one might say more objectivity) I never ran into Serbian bigotry toward Croats or Slovenes, but I found the opposite all the time. Many of the Croats I met and Slovenes all were biased against Serbs and wanted to know what my "roots" were before they decided how friendly to be -- something I was never asked in more tolerant Serbia. I think that says a lot. Furthermore, there was an established procedure for seceding from Yugoslavia and Slovenia and Croatia, not to mention the rest, didn't follow the procedure. What country on earth -- especially not the U.S. -- would stand back and allow a major part of its territory to secede illegally without reacting at all? Based on her past, one can only imagine the horrors that Croatia would have commited in Serbia had the shoe been on the other foot.
And why I am still sad, because the coin have another side. Truth is only one, as jurnalist you must find it. As we in Croatia said "Lie have a short legs" And mr.Puhovsky use to be slave of only one truth.
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