Wisner preaches constructiveness

Belgarde will not lose 15% of its sovereign territory in the stroke of a pen. I cannot understand why the Albanians cant accept that they live in Kosovo and Metohija, they dont own it. Pay taxes to Pristina, be ruled from Pristina but you cannot have independence.

Mr Anthony, who said that Serbia owns "Kosovo and Metohija." I think it is reasonable for a contemporary people to understand why Albanians don't want to live with Serbia, what happened in 99? Who wants to see a Serbian soldier at Kosovo border? Another war?

It is natural that after what happened back in 1999 it is impossible for Kosovo to not gain independence. However both Kosovo and Serbia will loose part of their independence when they join EU. All of us 25 EU countries did loose part of our independence. The same goes for all. Since both Serbia and Kosovo are aiming to join EU in the future, Serbia should recognize the rights of the over 90% of the inhabitans of Kosovo for a state of their own, protecting human rights for all its citizens off course, without matter their nationality. The geografical borders in the end will be only formal in an integrated Western Balkans in the EU. It is a fact.

I'm sorry to shatter the illusion Mr Struga but the United Nations recognises Kosovo and Metohija as an integral part of the sovereign territory of Serbia. Thats who says that Kosovo and Metohija is Serbian. I suggest, without the basic background knowledge to the long established conflict, it is wise not to try score points from people who have a degree in Balkan history from one of the finest learning institutes in the UK.

The political outcome of the Kosovo conflict would have been much different today if the KLA would have launched this illegal armed rebellion within the borders of Israel. Think of it, Israel would defend it's Jerusalem to the end. Unfortunately, Serbia did get the green light as Israel has today to destroy a terrorist organization much like Hamas or Hezbollah. Instead, we had an appeasement in order to foster some delusional good will within the Islamic world during the previous US administration. As a result, we have inherited and continue to pay for that misguided policy for this is a conflict not by nations, but a world wide clash of cultures. This is just the beginning of a prolonged struggle for it doesn't end with Kosovo or Israel, but the ultimate prize of blanketing the world under the united flag of Islamic intolerance.

To Mr. Anthony, Kosova was already lost under the 1973 Yugoslavian Constitution when the people of Kosova voted for independence. Both President Boris Tadic and Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica Knows that and they even say that they have no intent to rule Kosova. They are just waiting for the right price from the US and EU. Mr. Anthony, having a degree in Balkan history can you answerer couple questions. In 1842 what happen to Belgrade’s Albanian population that accounted for over 25% of its population and there religious suits (Catholic Church’s and Mosque’s)? And in 1882 what happen to Nis’s Albanian population that accounted for over 65% of its population? I will not ask what happen in 1912, 1918, 1942, 1968, 1981, 1989 and 1998. Once you answer these question you will know why Kosovars want Independence. That is all because of Serbian nationalist it did not start with Slobodan Milosevic. If you look at pre 1842 Balkan history, you will see that Serbs and Albanians live side be side for over a thousand years in peace.

I hope you have a nice day!!!
George

There can be no compromise over independence. You either have independence or you don't have it.
The Kosovo Albanians don't want to go back under Belgrade rule for one simple reason: Belgrade's official policies have always tried to wipe the Albanians of the earth. Even Kostunica's offers today have the same concept with those of Milosevic, "I want the land, but not the people."

“Autonomy in this region would be the same or similar to the kind which Vojvodina enjoys.” That’s a nice one! May I remind everybody here that Kosovo had a better autonomy in 1974, now has 100 more autonomy than Vojvodina and even Serbia is offering a much wider autonomy. For all practical purposes, Vojvodina has very little autonomy (its government can be dissolved at any time). This is a none -starter.

I like the comment of Kosovo President “Our argument is that we would like to rule ourselves, and Beograd’s argument is that they like to rule us. We shall see which argument the International community finds more reasonable”.
And here is how the Serbia PM countered: “For Kosovo to become Independent we have to break several International laws”. Well Mr. Koštunica, when you don’t respect International Law you cannot enjoy its benefits (International law prohibits genocide, ethnic cleansing and wanton destruction).

Mr. Shelmerdine, sounds to me that you may have wasted your money at that “finest learning institute”. How can you not have a basic knowledge to the conflict and yet have a degree from in “Balkan history from one of the finest learning institutes in the UK.” Perhaps you got your degree before Belgrade lost 15% of its territory by force (1999)?

Milan C, nobody is buying this argument anymore. Rest with it. And besides, the religious institutions of Serbia are the most extreme and with the most political influence in the whole of Europe. Bishop Artemy and Patriarch Pavle can legitimately change their titles to Ayatollah Artemy and Ayatollah Pavle. This title fits better their job decribtion. At least the Kosovo Mufti Naim Ternava does not get involved in politics. Kudos to him.
The Kosovo conflict is not a religious one, but the Serbian church is trying to make it so. Shame on them!

Wisner in “preaching constructiveness” for a reason!

Oh George, please. Dates and one-sided facts and figures do not make a debate . Serbs could just as easily point to 1912, 1914-1918, 1941-1945, 1981, and 2000-2006 to justify their reasons for antagonisms with Albanian Kosovars. Please stop making one side appear to be collective nationalists, and the other side innocent victims. One side's "self-determination" is another side's "ethnic cleansing". And since you're big on dates, the Constitution was 1974, not 1973. Kosovo was given "autonomy" not "independence". It was just that the local government in Pristina decided to just think of themselves as independent since 1981, with parallel governments and bureaucracies. The fact the rest of the world still calls it "KosovO" and not "KosovA" is the same reason we dont recongnize the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyrpus" - it's not internationally sanctioned.

Already having a nice day,
Mike

There is no doubt that Kosova will become independent and not any further than this year. Mr. GEORGE pointed very well some years when Serbia did massive killings against albanians and how could albanians still want to live under serbians? In any way you look at the problem, independence is the solution. Historically, the albanians are the people who lived in Balkans for thousands of years, serbs came in Balkans during the 6th century. The other reason why Kosova deserves and will be independent is that more than 90% of the population wants independence, the albanian majority and the other minorities want independence, except the serb minority who is played by Kostunica-Milosevic type propaganda. Not only the majority of western politicians, but even some serbian politicians agreed that Kosova will become independent such Goran Svilanovic etc... Unfortunately enough, there are still people who think that this will not happen. To the person who has a degree in Balkans history ANTHONY SHELMERDINE, i would suggest to you mr. ANTHONY to read a book by Noel Malcolm, "Kosovo- A short history". I suggested this to you to read because you think that only the people who have degree in the finest institutes of UK know about Balkans, and Noel Malcolm is one of them.
Thank you, especially to B92 for letting us exchange our thoughts and ideas.

To; Mr. Historian with degree,
I think you should make a trip to Rome, Italy and take a tour around the Coloseo where gladiators used to fight. look at the outside wall and you will see how big was Serbia (no more than Belgrade with its surroundings). So much for your degree without investigating facts thoroughly. I apoligize if I sound so harsh.

Its very strange that everyone appears to be attacking my assertion that the United Nation acknowledges Kosovo and Metohija to be part of the sovereign state of Serbia. Its rather pathetic that historical dates and facts are thrown at me when the only important issue is the here and now. It matters not what happend in 1912 or 1973 etc. For all those who wish to live in a peaceful democratic society then you MUST acknowledge a body like the United Nations. I'm half Serbian and isn't it us who are accused of holding onto historical dates and events... it appears not so.... but if i must... my family village is Belo Polje near Pec. Since the province saw international peacekeepers arrive it has been razed to the ground twice (2000 and 2004) by Albanians. Hardly Independent soveriegn nation material?

And Mr Hoxha, Noel Malcolm is President of the Anglo-Albanian society (a society of latter day Edith Durhams who find it quaint that Albania didn't have an codified alphabet until 1913) and his book is widely regarded as useless due to it rabidly blind pro Albanian stance.

When one of you attends Oxford or Cambridge i will take on board your comments.

Belgarde will not lose 15% of its sovereign territory in the stroke of a pen. I cannot understand why the Albanians cant accept that they live in Kosovo and Metohija, they dont own it. Pay taxes to Pristina, be ruled from Pristina but you cannot have independence.

Mr Anthony, who said that Serbia owns "Kosovo and Metohija." I think it is reasonable for a contemporary people to understand why Albanians don't want to live with Serbia, what happened in 99? Who wants to see a Serbian soldier at Kosovo border? Another war?

It is natural that after what happened back in 1999 it is impossible for Kosovo to not gain independence. However both Kosovo and Serbia will loose part of their independence when they join EU. All of us 25 EU countries did loose part of our independence. The same goes for all. Since both Serbia and Kosovo are aiming to join EU in the future, Serbia should recognize the rights of the over 90% of the inhabitans of Kosovo for a state of their own, protecting human rights for all its citizens off course, without matter their nationality. The geografical borders in the end will be only formal in an integrated Western Balkans in the EU. It is a fact.

I'm sorry to shatter the illusion Mr Struga but the United Nations recognises Kosovo and Metohija as an integral part of the sovereign territory of Serbia. Thats who says that Kosovo and Metohija is Serbian. I suggest, without the basic background knowledge to the long established conflict, it is wise not to try score points from people who have a degree in Balkan history from one of the finest learning institutes in the UK.

The political outcome of the Kosovo conflict would have been much different today if the KLA would have launched this illegal armed rebellion within the borders of Israel. Think of it, Israel would defend it's Jerusalem to the end. Unfortunately, Serbia did get the green light as Israel has today to destroy a terrorist organization much like Hamas or Hezbollah. Instead, we had an appeasement in order to foster some delusional good will within the Islamic world during the previous US administration. As a result, we have inherited and continue to pay for that misguided policy for this is a conflict not by nations, but a world wide clash of cultures. This is just the beginning of a prolonged struggle for it doesn't end with Kosovo or Israel, but the ultimate prize of blanketing the world under the united flag of Islamic intolerance.

To Mr. Anthony, Kosova was already lost under the 1973 Yugoslavian Constitution when the people of Kosova voted for independence. Both President Boris Tadic and Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica Knows that and they even say that they have no intent to rule Kosova. They are just waiting for the right price from the US and EU. Mr. Anthony, having a degree in Balkan history can you answerer couple questions. In 1842 what happen to Belgrade’s Albanian population that accounted for over 25% of its population and there religious suits (Catholic Church’s and Mosque’s)? And in 1882 what happen to Nis’s Albanian population that accounted for over 65% of its population? I will not ask what happen in 1912, 1918, 1942, 1968, 1981, 1989 and 1998. Once you answer these question you will know why Kosovars want Independence. That is all because of Serbian nationalist it did not start with Slobodan Milosevic. If you look at pre 1842 Balkan history, you will see that Serbs and Albanians live side be side for over a thousand years in peace.

I hope you have a nice day!!!
George

There can be no compromise over independence. You either have independence or you don't have it.
The Kosovo Albanians don't want to go back under Belgrade rule for one simple reason: Belgrade's official policies have always tried to wipe the Albanians of the earth. Even Kostunica's offers today have the same concept with those of Milosevic, "I want the land, but not the people."

“Autonomy in this region would be the same or similar to the kind which Vojvodina enjoys.” That’s a nice one! May I remind everybody here that Kosovo had a better autonomy in 1974, now has 100 more autonomy than Vojvodina and even Serbia is offering a much wider autonomy. For all practical purposes, Vojvodina has very little autonomy (its government can be dissolved at any time). This is a none -starter.

I like the comment of Kosovo President “Our argument is that we would like to rule ourselves, and Beograd’s argument is that they like to rule us. We shall see which argument the International community finds more reasonable”.
And here is how the Serbia PM countered: “For Kosovo to become Independent we have to break several International laws”. Well Mr. Koštunica, when you don’t respect International Law you cannot enjoy its benefits (International law prohibits genocide, ethnic cleansing and wanton destruction).

Mr. Shelmerdine, sounds to me that you may have wasted your money at that “finest learning institute”. How can you not have a basic knowledge to the conflict and yet have a degree from in “Balkan history from one of the finest learning institutes in the UK.” Perhaps you got your degree before Belgrade lost 15% of its territory by force (1999)?

Milan C, nobody is buying this argument anymore. Rest with it. And besides, the religious institutions of Serbia are the most extreme and with the most political influence in the whole of Europe. Bishop Artemy and Patriarch Pavle can legitimately change their titles to Ayatollah Artemy and Ayatollah Pavle. This title fits better their job decribtion. At least the Kosovo Mufti Naim Ternava does not get involved in politics. Kudos to him.
The Kosovo conflict is not a religious one, but the Serbian church is trying to make it so. Shame on them!

Wisner in “preaching constructiveness” for a reason!

Oh George, please. Dates and one-sided facts and figures do not make a debate . Serbs could just as easily point to 1912, 1914-1918, 1941-1945, 1981, and 2000-2006 to justify their reasons for antagonisms with Albanian Kosovars. Please stop making one side appear to be collective nationalists, and the other side innocent victims. One side's "self-determination" is another side's "ethnic cleansing". And since you're big on dates, the Constitution was 1974, not 1973. Kosovo was given "autonomy" not "independence". It was just that the local government in Pristina decided to just think of themselves as independent since 1981, with parallel governments and bureaucracies. The fact the rest of the world still calls it "KosovO" and not "KosovA" is the same reason we dont recongnize the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyrpus" - it's not internationally sanctioned.

Already having a nice day,
Mike

There is no doubt that Kosova will become independent and not any further than this year. Mr. GEORGE pointed very well some years when Serbia did massive killings against albanians and how could albanians still want to live under serbians? In any way you look at the problem, independence is the solution. Historically, the albanians are the people who lived in Balkans for thousands of years, serbs came in Balkans during the 6th century. The other reason why Kosova deserves and will be independent is that more than 90% of the population wants independence, the albanian majority and the other minorities want independence, except the serb minority who is played by Kostunica-Milosevic type propaganda. Not only the majority of western politicians, but even some serbian politicians agreed that Kosova will become independent such Goran Svilanovic etc... Unfortunately enough, there are still people who think that this will not happen. To the person who has a degree in Balkans history ANTHONY SHELMERDINE, i would suggest to you mr. ANTHONY to read a book by Noel Malcolm, "Kosovo- A short history". I suggested this to you to read because you think that only the people who have degree in the finest institutes of UK know about Balkans, and Noel Malcolm is one of them.
Thank you, especially to B92 for letting us exchange our thoughts and ideas.

To; Mr. Historian with degree,
I think you should make a trip to Rome, Italy and take a tour around the Coloseo where gladiators used to fight. look at the outside wall and you will see how big was Serbia (no more than Belgrade with its surroundings). So much for your degree without investigating facts thoroughly. I apoligize if I sound so harsh.

Its very strange that everyone appears to be attacking my assertion that the United Nation acknowledges Kosovo and Metohija to be part of the sovereign state of Serbia. Its rather pathetic that historical dates and facts are thrown at me when the only important issue is the here and now. It matters not what happend in 1912 or 1973 etc. For all those who wish to live in a peaceful democratic society then you MUST acknowledge a body like the United Nations. I'm half Serbian and isn't it us who are accused of holding onto historical dates and events... it appears not so.... but if i must... my family village is Belo Polje near Pec. Since the province saw international peacekeepers arrive it has been razed to the ground twice (2000 and 2004) by Albanians. Hardly Independent soveriegn nation material?

And Mr Hoxha, Noel Malcolm is President of the Anglo-Albanian society (a society of latter day Edith Durhams who find it quaint that Albania didn't have an codified alphabet until 1913) and his book is widely regarded as useless due to it rabidly blind pro Albanian stance.

When one of you attends Oxford or Cambridge i will take on board your comments.