That is fine by me that they did not want to live in a federal government run by Serbs and now they don’t. So, its time to stand on your own and make your own way in Europe.
Now what these same ethnicities, who have found out that life is not what they thought it would be outside Yugoslavia, want somehow to tune into a similar arrangement that existed in the old Yugoslavia where manufacturing of an item took place in various republics thus creating employment. Serbia is attracting investment from all quarters. Why even US firms are opening up in Serbia. You do the same for your lot.
NO Albos will ever get employment in Serbia. Any labour shortfalls in Serbia will come from Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece etc but never Albos or Croats. Its sink or swim time and you had better learn to hold your breath.
You people are all the same. You start fine but when unable to counter a point you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic raised by you. What has “being the backbone between the west and east” got to do with what we are talking about?
The reality was Yugoslavia the land of brotherhood and unity was a myth. Only Serbs held onto that myth.
Croatia still brings in foreign currencies due to tourism, but that is all and tourism lasts 3 months of the year. Croatia is on par with Serbia but Serbia will leave Croatia in the dust very soon despite being helped by the EU after the war. No one invests in Croatia. If Croatia did not access the EU fund it would look like Somalia.
Gorenje is Chinese mate. Keep up with the times. They had to relocate to Serbia because Slovenia is too small a market.
How do you think China started? Exactly the same way as Serbia; low salaries but today China is the No1 economy in the world despite the west chanting its the US. Its middle class is at 700 million. Of course, Serbia will not aspire or could reach those heights but it will have a fantastic living standard unlike those around her. Naturally, Serbs will ask for more money when the time is right.
Kosovo is Serbia but Albos are not.
The Yugoslavia experiment is DEAD and its time for these new countries to look after themselves.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
(Mary, 22 January 2019 15:30)
========================
Maybe you're the naïve one if you think that surveys are more accurate. They actually CHOOSE who they want to ask.
There is no perfect vehicle because they all can be manipulated but if you believe in polls then I can't help you.
"A big problem comparing to germany is the amount of automatisation, there central and west europe are far away. Just look at traktors used here and in france or germany."
That people choose to do jobs inefficiently is a major problem. Just an example....people in my village cut their firewood into small pieces with chainsaws. It is more dangerous and much more costly than using a small bandsaw.
"I think even with double salary outcome would be better than in germany, even if the german is double productive. They earn 5 times more in germany, so you could hire 4 people and still be cheaper than the production in germany when it is about salaries." (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 19:02)
But living costs are much higher. That needs to be figured into the equation because it also means that you can get a higher priced for marketed goods.
Yes, I can hire all these people to do work on my land but if I cannot resell my property for a German price and cannot sell my fruits and vegetables for a German price, how is that better?
Sj,
Your claim that the other ethnicities did not want to live in Jugoslavija, is simply not true. The fact is they did not want to live in a country where the federal gov’t was dominated by Serbs. Obviously, all the other ethnicities could not be wrong in their opinion of Serbia.
There is a problem with raising wages: the work level is not the same. If you pay a Serb by salary, you would not get anywhere close to the same amount of labor as hiring a German. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but rather ingrained habits. When I hire people they expect about five pauzas a day, lunch served to them, they show up late and go home early, they skip multiple days a month for slava, they don't show up when there is a bit of snow on the road, etc. And nearly everyone -- at least in my region -- works just so they have enough to live on. (There is almost no 'catch up with the Jones' mentality, which is a good thing but it means lower production per man hour.)
The labor here is cheap if you convert dinars into Euros, Pounds, or Dollars but the difference isnt so big if you take all factors into consideration.
(JS, 22 January 2019 16:47)
Inst Serbia lucky to have such an entrepreneur/business person like you. You can show them the way of the US. After many decades of high wages the only jobs now created today are at $7.50 to $12.50 an hour and 70% of wage earners live from pay day to pay day.
See your hiring Serbs already. I just wonder if there is any oxygen on your planet.
You people are all the same. You start fine but when unable to counter a point you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic raised by you. What has “being the backbone between the west and east” got to do with what we are talking about?
The reality was Yugoslavia the land of brotherhood and unity was a myth. Only Serbs held onto that myth.
Croatia still brings in foreign currencies due to tourism, but that is all and tourism lasts 3 months of the year. Croatia is on par with Serbia but Serbia will leave Croatia in the dust very soon despite being helped by the EU after the war. No one invests in Croatia. If Croatia did not access the EU fund it would look like Somalia.
Gorenje is Chinese mate. Keep up with the times. They had to relocate to Serbia because Slovenia is too small a market.
How do you think China started? Exactly the same way as Serbia; low salaries but today China is the No1 economy in the world despite the west chanting its the US. Its middle class is at 700 million. Of course, Serbia will not aspire or could reach those heights but it will have a fantastic living standard unlike those around her. Naturally, Serbs will ask for more money when the time is right.
Kosovo is Serbia but Albos are not.
The Yugoslvaia experiment is DEAD and its time for these new countries to look after themselves. To you Yugoslvaia looks better and better as the years go by but it was a fantasy.
@js: I agree partially. Is the productivity low because of salaries or because of the surrounding? A big problem comparing to germany is the amount of automatisation, there central and west europe are far away. Just look at traktors used here and in france or germany.
I think even with double salary outcome would be better than in germany, even if the german is double productive. They earn 5 times more in germany, so you could hire 4 people and still be cheaper than the production in germany when it is about salaries.
The backbone was beeing between west and east.
Croatia brought in foreign currencies thanks to tourism. Beside that it was pretty equal with serbia.
Gorenje is still producing in Serbia, the companies do not care so much about borders so also serbian companies will invest in the other former republics if it makes sence for them. At the moment the 'good' thing is, salaries in serbia are extremly low and the options to export to EU, Russia, Arab nations,... Sooner or later people will ask more money, we will see what happens than. It is difficult to live from 300 Euros that people get in factories, even in Serbia.
'According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia', if Kosovo is Serbia, they are serbian citizens and have the same rights.
"Gorenje is still producing in Serbia, the companies do not care so much about borders so also serbian companies will invest in the other former republics if it makes sence for them. At the moment the 'good' thing is, salaries in serbia are extremly low and the options to export to EU, Russia, Arab nations,... Sooner or later people will ask more money, we will see what happens than. It is difficult to live from 300 Euros that people get in factories, even in Serbia. (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 16:16)
There is a problem with raising wages: the work level is not the same. If you pay a Serb by salary, you would not get anywhere close to the same amount of labor as hiring a German. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but rather ingrained habits. When I hire people they expect about five pauzas a day, lunch served to them, they show up late and go home early, they skip multiple days a month for slava, they don't show up when there is a bit of snow on the road, etc. And nearly everyone -- at least in my region -- works just so they have enough to live on. (There is almost no 'catch up with the Jones' mentality, which is a good thing but it means lower production per man hour.)
The labor here is cheap if you convert dinars into Euros, Pounds, or Dollars but the difference isnt so big if you take all factors into consideration.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
(Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 12:03)
As I said the Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Albos and Macedonians did not want to live in Yugoslavia. I have no objections with that, nor do I support violence, but now things are getting very hard in the former Yugo republics. The Croats have been telling themselves that Croatia was the financial backbone of Yugoslvaia for decades but that delusion has vaporised. Now that both the west and east are investing in Serbia and these republics want a crumb or two to fall off Belgrade’s table; to return to the “good old days” where manufacturing parts for certain items were made in various republics and employment was created.
According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia. No, it’s time for everyone to look after themselves and for Serbs to live on their own. Why should Serbs look after anyone in the old Yugo republics? Serbia carried Yugoslvaia on its back and look what happened. Now your suggesting a repeat.
As I also said its only Albos and Croats that hanker for Tito and brotherhood and unity. Live on your own and look after yourselves and don’t expect Serbia to do that for you.
Look at what happened to Germany when they looked after themselves.
(Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 12:03)
As I said the Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Albos and Macedonians did not want to live in Yugoslavia. I have no objections with that, nor do I support violence, but now things are getting very hard in the former Yugo republics. The Croats have been telling themselves that Croatia was the financial backbone of Yugoslvaia for decades but that delusion has vaporised. Now that both the west and east are investing in Serbia and these republics want a crumb or two to fall off Belgrade’s table; to return to the “good old days” where manufacturing parts for certain items were made in various republics and employment was created.
According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia. No, it’s time for everyone to look after themselves and for Serbs to live on their own. Why should Serbs look after anyone in the old Yugo republics? Serbia carried Yugoslvaia on its back and look what happened. Now your suggesting a repeat.
As I also said its only Albos and Croats that hanker for Tito and brotherhood and unity. Live on your own and look after yourselves and don’t expect Serbia to do that for you.
Ps Look where Germany has got to looking after themselves.
Serbs first everyone else last.
(sj) that reminds me of the first part of the german anthem, that germans do not sing anymore.
You forget that serbian army and paramilitaries were not better than croatians or bosnians. Look at bosnia the serbian areas are 'cleaned' like the bosnian and croatian areas. Whoever won the others would have been forced to leave. The victims were the civilians on all sides.
The crimes done in any war is ordered and done by a small group of people. And the people that are today younger than 40 can not be guilty for any crime committed during the yugoslavian wars and let's say younger than 35 for the Kosovl war. I 'judge' people on individual level, a victim is a victim never mind to which group it belongs, same for criminals.
Personally, I see no difference between Serbs or Croats, but Croats are poisoned by religious fanaticism that has driven them mad.
Yes all those people you mentioned are Slavs so we are in some way all related but we are also related to the first homo sapiens found in Africa that lived 200,000 years ago. So what’s your point? Love everyone even though they want to stick a knife in you?
Those same relatives butchered Serbs on mass during WW2 and at first opportunity removed over 200,000 Serbs during the 1990s so please stop this BS about brotherhood and unity. Tito held that by the rule of a rifle and at first opportunity Croats Bosniaks etc jumped the Yugoslav ship. It was always the Serbs that wished to keep Yugoslavia and they did it while the rest did not.
What you want is to return to the “good old days” and as the years go by those days get better and better, but really when you keep looking back all you get is a sore neck.
The Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins Albos and Macedonians did not like living in Yugoslavia and that is fine by me but now things are getting very hard and Serbia is re-industrialising and they want a crumb or two. Screw them.
It’s time for Serbs to live on their own. Let me repeat Serbs first everyone else last.
I agree with your observations. I am in an identical position except that my area stretches from Aranđelovac to Vranje (north to south) and Zaječar to Kraljevo (east to west). I also meet a wide range of people, from business owners and employees at embassies to farmers and unemployed. I would say the majority want either to join the EU or at least to be like western Europeans because of the perceived stability and economic benefits.
(JS, 22 January 2019 10:56)
If you had seven you still could not be this silly. A billionaire in Serbia who travels far and wide in Serbia meets with business people and embassy staff and yet left the US because of his enormous wealth LOL.
"Beside that my observation is not from a distance of 3000km or more.
People from my observation.
Age: from 20s to 70s. Younger once more for EU.
Area: Vojvodina, Belgrade, East-easr south serbia. So western cental serbia and Kosovo I did not observe, also I guess Kosovo would push percentage quiet up considering how much albanians are living there.
Social: more or less all kind of people. Studends to retired people. Refugees from Kosovo and croatia. People with some money and unemployed people.
A hint if you live somewhere you get in touch with all kind of people. ;) (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 10:12)
I agree with your observations. I am in an identical position except that my area stretches from Aranđelovac to Vranje (north to south) and Zaječar to Kraljevo (east to west). I also meet a wide range of people, from business owners and employees at embassies to farmers and unemployed. I would say the majority want either to join the EU or at least to be like western Europeans because of the perceived stability and economic benefits.
As I said modern day followers of Tito like you are either Albos who wish to turn the clonk back to when everything was free for them or (Croats)
and now please explain me the difference between a croatian and a serbian. Language same just dialects, family names quiet a lot the same, food pretty much the same, mentality same,...
Religion is the base for this 'nationalities'
But if you are proud of your true serbian blood, I guess your mother and father are very close relatives and also all your ancesters for 10.000s of years.
You should start thinking if maybe there are some albanians, bosnians, croatians, romanians, bulgarians, osmans,... below your ancesters.
EU is a big farce. A person who sits in the high castle in Brussels dictates what your nation can do and cannot do. Look at immigration, Germany asking others to share the refugees burden and must meet quota's. They are responsible for that decision and why should others wear it?
Otherwise that 55% of approval will soon become 25%.
(Skenderbeu 1444, 21 January 2019 17:48
==========================
If it isn't 25% already.
Polls can show you anything you want to see. All you have to do is poll the correct demographic.
Who was polled and how many? How was the question phrased?
All this matters.
The only true poll is a referendum.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
(Tito reloaded, 21 January 2019 17:05)
====================
How do you know all this?
Have to taken some sort of a survey lately? If you did, how many people did you survey and what demographic?
Smoke and mirrors.
(sj, 21 January 2019 14:04
===================
Exactly. What the muppets here don't get is that surveys can be manipulated to give you the desired outcome.
There is only one reliable survey and that's a referendum.
How soon can they have one? Why not tag it onto the next election.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
(Tito reloaded, 21 January 2019 17:05)
Always the nationalists. How does a minority have such a wide affect on the vast majority? Most Serbs do not have a problem with Bosniaks but Croats are totally different. As I said modern day followers of Tito like you are either Albos who wish to turn the clonk back to when everything was free for them or Croats who have finally found out that Croatia is not the economic superpower that financed the old Yugoslavia and could somehow bring back how things once were.
SJ,
It sounds as if you are just making things up so as to fit your agenda. Do you know which statistical methods were used. You are in over your head on this one. Why am I not surprised.
(Mary, 21 January 2019 15:05)
Sweetie you are so clueless its not even funny. Your one of the millions who think it all happens naturally just like the US came to Albo aid in 1999 because they believe in human rights LOL.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES
Serbian citizens don't want to be part of the E.U
This is propaganda coming from Vucic to trick Serbs into believing that Serbs really want E.U
F#*k E.U and NATO (Smart Serb, 21 January 2019 14:34)
If you were smart, you'd wash out your mouth with soap.
55% of approval for a candidate country is the lowest approval rate for membership in economic and political unions. The increase of people who want reforms to go on despite any membership is the real big news and real big signal for politicians. Otherwise that 55% of approval will soon become 25%.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
SJ,
It sounds as if you are just making things up so as to fit your agenda. Do you know which statistical methods were used. You are in over your head on this one. Why am I not surprised.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES
Serbian citizens don't want to be part of the E.U
This is propaganda coming from Vucic to trick Serbs into believing that Serbs really want E.U
F#*k E.U and NATO
These surveys are done for strategic reasons. Main one is to show Serbia's love for the EU, but they can also be easily manipulated to show what you want to show.
For example the recent polls done on Trump show that 60% are against Trump. The problem there is they mostly asked in Democrat areas not in places which elected Trump. Smoke and mirrors.
These surveys are done for strategic reasons. Main one is to show Serbia's love for the EU, but they can also be easily manipulated to show what you want to show.
For example the recent polls done on Trump show that 60% are against Trump. The problem there is they mostly asked in Democrat areas not in places which elected Trump. Smoke and mirrors.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES
Serbian citizens don't want to be part of the E.U
This is propaganda coming from Vucic to trick Serbs into believing that Serbs really want E.U
F#*k E.U and NATO
SJ,
It sounds as if you are just making things up so as to fit your agenda. Do you know which statistical methods were used. You are in over your head on this one. Why am I not surprised.
Smoke and mirrors.
(sj, 21 January 2019 14:04
===================
Exactly. What the muppets here don't get is that surveys can be manipulated to give you the desired outcome.
There is only one reliable survey and that's a referendum.
How soon can they have one? Why not tag it onto the next election.
55% of approval for a candidate country is the lowest approval rate for membership in economic and political unions. The increase of people who want reforms to go on despite any membership is the real big news and real big signal for politicians. Otherwise that 55% of approval will soon become 25%.
Otherwise that 55% of approval will soon become 25%.
(Skenderbeu 1444, 21 January 2019 17:48
==========================
If it isn't 25% already.
Polls can show you anything you want to see. All you have to do is poll the correct demographic.
Who was polled and how many? How was the question phrased?
All this matters.
The only true poll is a referendum.
EU is a big farce. A person who sits in the high castle in Brussels dictates what your nation can do and cannot do. Look at immigration, Germany asking others to share the refugees burden and must meet quota's. They are responsible for that decision and why should others wear it?
Personally, I see no difference between Serbs or Croats, but Croats are poisoned by religious fanaticism that has driven them mad.
Yes all those people you mentioned are Slavs so we are in some way all related but we are also related to the first homo sapiens found in Africa that lived 200,000 years ago. So what’s your point? Love everyone even though they want to stick a knife in you?
Those same relatives butchered Serbs on mass during WW2 and at first opportunity removed over 200,000 Serbs during the 1990s so please stop this BS about brotherhood and unity. Tito held that by the rule of a rifle and at first opportunity Croats Bosniaks etc jumped the Yugoslav ship. It was always the Serbs that wished to keep Yugoslavia and they did it while the rest did not.
What you want is to return to the “good old days” and as the years go by those days get better and better, but really when you keep looking back all you get is a sore neck.
The Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins Albos and Macedonians did not like living in Yugoslavia and that is fine by me but now things are getting very hard and Serbia is re-industrialising and they want a crumb or two. Screw them.
It’s time for Serbs to live on their own. Let me repeat Serbs first everyone else last.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
(Tito reloaded, 21 January 2019 17:05)
Always the nationalists. How does a minority have such a wide affect on the vast majority? Most Serbs do not have a problem with Bosniaks but Croats are totally different. As I said modern day followers of Tito like you are either Albos who wish to turn the clonk back to when everything was free for them or Croats who have finally found out that Croatia is not the economic superpower that financed the old Yugoslavia and could somehow bring back how things once were.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
(Tito reloaded, 21 January 2019 17:05)
====================
How do you know all this?
Have to taken some sort of a survey lately? If you did, how many people did you survey and what demographic?
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES
Serbian citizens don't want to be part of the E.U
This is propaganda coming from Vucic to trick Serbs into believing that Serbs really want E.U
F#*k E.U and NATO (Smart Serb, 21 January 2019 14:34)
If you were smart, you'd wash out your mouth with soap.
SJ,
It sounds as if you are just making things up so as to fit your agenda. Do you know which statistical methods were used. You are in over your head on this one. Why am I not surprised.
(Mary, 21 January 2019 15:05)
Sweetie you are so clueless its not even funny. Your one of the millions who think it all happens naturally just like the US came to Albo aid in 1999 because they believe in human rights LOL.
As I said modern day followers of Tito like you are either Albos who wish to turn the clonk back to when everything was free for them or (Croats)
and now please explain me the difference between a croatian and a serbian. Language same just dialects, family names quiet a lot the same, food pretty much the same, mentality same,...
Religion is the base for this 'nationalities'
But if you are proud of your true serbian blood, I guess your mother and father are very close relatives and also all your ancesters for 10.000s of years.
You should start thinking if maybe there are some albanians, bosnians, croatians, romanians, bulgarians, osmans,... below your ancesters.
I agree with your observations. I am in an identical position except that my area stretches from Aranđelovac to Vranje (north to south) and Zaječar to Kraljevo (east to west). I also meet a wide range of people, from business owners and employees at embassies to farmers and unemployed. I would say the majority want either to join the EU or at least to be like western Europeans because of the perceived stability and economic benefits.
(JS, 22 January 2019 10:56)
If you had seven you still could not be this silly. A billionaire in Serbia who travels far and wide in Serbia meets with business people and embassy staff and yet left the US because of his enormous wealth LOL.
Serbs first everyone else last.
(sj) that reminds me of the first part of the german anthem, that germans do not sing anymore.
You forget that serbian army and paramilitaries were not better than croatians or bosnians. Look at bosnia the serbian areas are 'cleaned' like the bosnian and croatian areas. Whoever won the others would have been forced to leave. The victims were the civilians on all sides.
The crimes done in any war is ordered and done by a small group of people. And the people that are today younger than 40 can not be guilty for any crime committed during the yugoslavian wars and let's say younger than 35 for the Kosovl war. I 'judge' people on individual level, a victim is a victim never mind to which group it belongs, same for criminals.
(Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 12:03)
As I said the Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Albos and Macedonians did not want to live in Yugoslavia. I have no objections with that, nor do I support violence, but now things are getting very hard in the former Yugo republics. The Croats have been telling themselves that Croatia was the financial backbone of Yugoslvaia for decades but that delusion has vaporised. Now that both the west and east are investing in Serbia and these republics want a crumb or two to fall off Belgrade’s table; to return to the “good old days” where manufacturing parts for certain items were made in various republics and employment was created.
According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia. No, it’s time for everyone to look after themselves and for Serbs to live on their own. Why should Serbs look after anyone in the old Yugo republics? Serbia carried Yugoslvaia on its back and look what happened. Now your suggesting a repeat.
As I also said its only Albos and Croats that hanker for Tito and brotherhood and unity. Live on your own and look after yourselves and don’t expect Serbia to do that for you.
Ps Look where Germany has got to looking after themselves.
(Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 12:03)
As I said the Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Albos and Macedonians did not want to live in Yugoslavia. I have no objections with that, nor do I support violence, but now things are getting very hard in the former Yugo republics. The Croats have been telling themselves that Croatia was the financial backbone of Yugoslvaia for decades but that delusion has vaporised. Now that both the west and east are investing in Serbia and these republics want a crumb or two to fall off Belgrade’s table; to return to the “good old days” where manufacturing parts for certain items were made in various republics and employment was created.
According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia. No, it’s time for everyone to look after themselves and for Serbs to live on their own. Why should Serbs look after anyone in the old Yugo republics? Serbia carried Yugoslvaia on its back and look what happened. Now your suggesting a repeat.
As I also said its only Albos and Croats that hanker for Tito and brotherhood and unity. Live on your own and look after yourselves and don’t expect Serbia to do that for you.
Look at what happened to Germany when they looked after themselves.
"Gorenje is still producing in Serbia, the companies do not care so much about borders so also serbian companies will invest in the other former republics if it makes sence for them. At the moment the 'good' thing is, salaries in serbia are extremly low and the options to export to EU, Russia, Arab nations,... Sooner or later people will ask more money, we will see what happens than. It is difficult to live from 300 Euros that people get in factories, even in Serbia. (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 16:16)
There is a problem with raising wages: the work level is not the same. If you pay a Serb by salary, you would not get anywhere close to the same amount of labor as hiring a German. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but rather ingrained habits. When I hire people they expect about five pauzas a day, lunch served to them, they show up late and go home early, they skip multiple days a month for slava, they don't show up when there is a bit of snow on the road, etc. And nearly everyone -- at least in my region -- works just so they have enough to live on. (There is almost no 'catch up with the Jones' mentality, which is a good thing but it means lower production per man hour.)
The labor here is cheap if you convert dinars into Euros, Pounds, or Dollars but the difference isnt so big if you take all factors into consideration.
"Beside that my observation is not from a distance of 3000km or more.
People from my observation.
Age: from 20s to 70s. Younger once more for EU.
Area: Vojvodina, Belgrade, East-easr south serbia. So western cental serbia and Kosovo I did not observe, also I guess Kosovo would push percentage quiet up considering how much albanians are living there.
Social: more or less all kind of people. Studends to retired people. Refugees from Kosovo and croatia. People with some money and unemployed people.
A hint if you live somewhere you get in touch with all kind of people. ;) (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 10:12)
I agree with your observations. I am in an identical position except that my area stretches from Aranđelovac to Vranje (north to south) and Zaječar to Kraljevo (east to west). I also meet a wide range of people, from business owners and employees at embassies to farmers and unemployed. I would say the majority want either to join the EU or at least to be like western Europeans because of the perceived stability and economic benefits.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
The backbone was beeing between west and east.
Croatia brought in foreign currencies thanks to tourism. Beside that it was pretty equal with serbia.
Gorenje is still producing in Serbia, the companies do not care so much about borders so also serbian companies will invest in the other former republics if it makes sence for them. At the moment the 'good' thing is, salaries in serbia are extremly low and the options to export to EU, Russia, Arab nations,... Sooner or later people will ask more money, we will see what happens than. It is difficult to live from 300 Euros that people get in factories, even in Serbia.
'According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia', if Kosovo is Serbia, they are serbian citizens and have the same rights.
There is a problem with raising wages: the work level is not the same. If you pay a Serb by salary, you would not get anywhere close to the same amount of labor as hiring a German. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but rather ingrained habits. When I hire people they expect about five pauzas a day, lunch served to them, they show up late and go home early, they skip multiple days a month for slava, they don't show up when there is a bit of snow on the road, etc. And nearly everyone -- at least in my region -- works just so they have enough to live on. (There is almost no 'catch up with the Jones' mentality, which is a good thing but it means lower production per man hour.)
The labor here is cheap if you convert dinars into Euros, Pounds, or Dollars but the difference isnt so big if you take all factors into consideration.
(JS, 22 January 2019 16:47)
Inst Serbia lucky to have such an entrepreneur/business person like you. You can show them the way of the US. After many decades of high wages the only jobs now created today are at $7.50 to $12.50 an hour and 70% of wage earners live from pay day to pay day.
See your hiring Serbs already. I just wonder if there is any oxygen on your planet.
@js: I agree partially. Is the productivity low because of salaries or because of the surrounding? A big problem comparing to germany is the amount of automatisation, there central and west europe are far away. Just look at traktors used here and in france or germany.
I think even with double salary outcome would be better than in germany, even if the german is double productive. They earn 5 times more in germany, so you could hire 4 people and still be cheaper than the production in germany when it is about salaries.
Sj,
Your claim that the other ethnicities did not want to live in Jugoslavija, is simply not true. The fact is they did not want to live in a country where the federal gov’t was dominated by Serbs. Obviously, all the other ethnicities could not be wrong in their opinion of Serbia.
You people are all the same. You start fine but when unable to counter a point you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic raised by you. What has “being the backbone between the west and east” got to do with what we are talking about?
The reality was Yugoslavia the land of brotherhood and unity was a myth. Only Serbs held onto that myth.
Croatia still brings in foreign currencies due to tourism, but that is all and tourism lasts 3 months of the year. Croatia is on par with Serbia but Serbia will leave Croatia in the dust very soon despite being helped by the EU after the war. No one invests in Croatia. If Croatia did not access the EU fund it would look like Somalia.
Gorenje is Chinese mate. Keep up with the times. They had to relocate to Serbia because Slovenia is too small a market.
How do you think China started? Exactly the same way as Serbia; low salaries but today China is the No1 economy in the world despite the west chanting its the US. Its middle class is at 700 million. Of course, Serbia will not aspire or could reach those heights but it will have a fantastic living standard unlike those around her. Naturally, Serbs will ask for more money when the time is right.
Kosovo is Serbia but Albos are not.
The Yugoslvaia experiment is DEAD and its time for these new countries to look after themselves. To you Yugoslvaia looks better and better as the years go by but it was a fantasy.
"A big problem comparing to germany is the amount of automatisation, there central and west europe are far away. Just look at traktors used here and in france or germany."
That people choose to do jobs inefficiently is a major problem. Just an example....people in my village cut their firewood into small pieces with chainsaws. It is more dangerous and much more costly than using a small bandsaw.
"I think even with double salary outcome would be better than in germany, even if the german is double productive. They earn 5 times more in germany, so you could hire 4 people and still be cheaper than the production in germany when it is about salaries." (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 19:02)
But living costs are much higher. That needs to be figured into the equation because it also means that you can get a higher priced for marketed goods.
Yes, I can hire all these people to do work on my land but if I cannot resell my property for a German price and cannot sell my fruits and vegetables for a German price, how is that better?
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
(Mary, 22 January 2019 15:30)
========================
Maybe you're the naïve one if you think that surveys are more accurate. They actually CHOOSE who they want to ask.
There is no perfect vehicle because they all can be manipulated but if you believe in polls then I can't help you.
You people are all the same. You start fine but when unable to counter a point you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic raised by you. What has “being the backbone between the west and east” got to do with what we are talking about?
The reality was Yugoslavia the land of brotherhood and unity was a myth. Only Serbs held onto that myth.
Croatia still brings in foreign currencies due to tourism, but that is all and tourism lasts 3 months of the year. Croatia is on par with Serbia but Serbia will leave Croatia in the dust very soon despite being helped by the EU after the war. No one invests in Croatia. If Croatia did not access the EU fund it would look like Somalia.
Gorenje is Chinese mate. Keep up with the times. They had to relocate to Serbia because Slovenia is too small a market.
How do you think China started? Exactly the same way as Serbia; low salaries but today China is the No1 economy in the world despite the west chanting its the US. Its middle class is at 700 million. Of course, Serbia will not aspire or could reach those heights but it will have a fantastic living standard unlike those around her. Naturally, Serbs will ask for more money when the time is right.
Kosovo is Serbia but Albos are not.
The Yugoslavia experiment is DEAD and its time for these new countries to look after themselves.
That is fine by me that they did not want to live in a federal government run by Serbs and now they don’t. So, its time to stand on your own and make your own way in Europe.
Now what these same ethnicities, who have found out that life is not what they thought it would be outside Yugoslavia, want somehow to tune into a similar arrangement that existed in the old Yugoslavia where manufacturing of an item took place in various republics thus creating employment. Serbia is attracting investment from all quarters. Why even US firms are opening up in Serbia. You do the same for your lot.
NO Albos will ever get employment in Serbia. Any labour shortfalls in Serbia will come from Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece etc but never Albos or Croats. Its sink or swim time and you had better learn to hold your breath.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES
Serbian citizens don't want to be part of the E.U
This is propaganda coming from Vucic to trick Serbs into believing that Serbs really want E.U
F#*k E.U and NATO
These surveys are done for strategic reasons. Main one is to show Serbia's love for the EU, but they can also be easily manipulated to show what you want to show.
For example the recent polls done on Trump show that 60% are against Trump. The problem there is they mostly asked in Democrat areas not in places which elected Trump. Smoke and mirrors.
SJ,
It sounds as if you are just making things up so as to fit your agenda. Do you know which statistical methods were used. You are in over your head on this one. Why am I not surprised.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES
Serbian citizens don't want to be part of the E.U
This is propaganda coming from Vucic to trick Serbs into believing that Serbs really want E.U
F#*k E.U and NATO (Smart Serb, 21 January 2019 14:34)
If you were smart, you'd wash out your mouth with soap.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
As I said modern day followers of Tito like you are either Albos who wish to turn the clonk back to when everything was free for them or (Croats)
and now please explain me the difference between a croatian and a serbian. Language same just dialects, family names quiet a lot the same, food pretty much the same, mentality same,...
Religion is the base for this 'nationalities'
But if you are proud of your true serbian blood, I guess your mother and father are very close relatives and also all your ancesters for 10.000s of years.
You should start thinking if maybe there are some albanians, bosnians, croatians, romanians, bulgarians, osmans,... below your ancesters.
55% of approval for a candidate country is the lowest approval rate for membership in economic and political unions. The increase of people who want reforms to go on despite any membership is the real big news and real big signal for politicians. Otherwise that 55% of approval will soon become 25%.
SJ,
It sounds as if you are just making things up so as to fit your agenda. Do you know which statistical methods were used. You are in over your head on this one. Why am I not surprised.
(Mary, 21 January 2019 15:05)
Sweetie you are so clueless its not even funny. Your one of the millions who think it all happens naturally just like the US came to Albo aid in 1999 because they believe in human rights LOL.
Otherwise that 55% of approval will soon become 25%.
(Skenderbeu 1444, 21 January 2019 17:48
==========================
If it isn't 25% already.
Polls can show you anything you want to see. All you have to do is poll the correct demographic.
Who was polled and how many? How was the question phrased?
All this matters.
The only true poll is a referendum.
Smoke and mirrors.
(sj, 21 January 2019 14:04
===================
Exactly. What the muppets here don't get is that surveys can be manipulated to give you the desired outcome.
There is only one reliable survey and that's a referendum.
How soon can they have one? Why not tag it onto the next election.
Personally, I see no difference between Serbs or Croats, but Croats are poisoned by religious fanaticism that has driven them mad.
Yes all those people you mentioned are Slavs so we are in some way all related but we are also related to the first homo sapiens found in Africa that lived 200,000 years ago. So what’s your point? Love everyone even though they want to stick a knife in you?
Those same relatives butchered Serbs on mass during WW2 and at first opportunity removed over 200,000 Serbs during the 1990s so please stop this BS about brotherhood and unity. Tito held that by the rule of a rifle and at first opportunity Croats Bosniaks etc jumped the Yugoslav ship. It was always the Serbs that wished to keep Yugoslavia and they did it while the rest did not.
What you want is to return to the “good old days” and as the years go by those days get better and better, but really when you keep looking back all you get is a sore neck.
The Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins Albos and Macedonians did not like living in Yugoslavia and that is fine by me but now things are getting very hard and Serbia is re-industrialising and they want a crumb or two. Screw them.
It’s time for Serbs to live on their own. Let me repeat Serbs first everyone else last.
Serbs first everyone else last.
(sj) that reminds me of the first part of the german anthem, that germans do not sing anymore.
You forget that serbian army and paramilitaries were not better than croatians or bosnians. Look at bosnia the serbian areas are 'cleaned' like the bosnian and croatian areas. Whoever won the others would have been forced to leave. The victims were the civilians on all sides.
The crimes done in any war is ordered and done by a small group of people. And the people that are today younger than 40 can not be guilty for any crime committed during the yugoslavian wars and let's say younger than 35 for the Kosovl war. I 'judge' people on individual level, a victim is a victim never mind to which group it belongs, same for criminals.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
(Tito reloaded, 21 January 2019 17:05)
Always the nationalists. How does a minority have such a wide affect on the vast majority? Most Serbs do not have a problem with Bosniaks but Croats are totally different. As I said modern day followers of Tito like you are either Albos who wish to turn the clonk back to when everything was free for them or Croats who have finally found out that Croatia is not the economic superpower that financed the old Yugoslavia and could somehow bring back how things once were.
Many are for joining EU, just often they are scared to say it. Nationalists are simply screaming louder, it does not mean they have majority.
It is same like most do not have any problems with croatians or bosnians.
(Tito reloaded, 21 January 2019 17:05)
====================
How do you know all this?
Have to taken some sort of a survey lately? If you did, how many people did you survey and what demographic?
EU is a big farce. A person who sits in the high castle in Brussels dictates what your nation can do and cannot do. Look at immigration, Germany asking others to share the refugees burden and must meet quota's. They are responsible for that decision and why should others wear it?
"Beside that my observation is not from a distance of 3000km or more.
People from my observation.
Age: from 20s to 70s. Younger once more for EU.
Area: Vojvodina, Belgrade, East-easr south serbia. So western cental serbia and Kosovo I did not observe, also I guess Kosovo would push percentage quiet up considering how much albanians are living there.
Social: more or less all kind of people. Studends to retired people. Refugees from Kosovo and croatia. People with some money and unemployed people.
A hint if you live somewhere you get in touch with all kind of people. ;) (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 10:12)
I agree with your observations. I am in an identical position except that my area stretches from Aranđelovac to Vranje (north to south) and Zaječar to Kraljevo (east to west). I also meet a wide range of people, from business owners and employees at embassies to farmers and unemployed. I would say the majority want either to join the EU or at least to be like western Europeans because of the perceived stability and economic benefits.
(Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 12:03)
As I said the Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Albos and Macedonians did not want to live in Yugoslavia. I have no objections with that, nor do I support violence, but now things are getting very hard in the former Yugo republics. The Croats have been telling themselves that Croatia was the financial backbone of Yugoslvaia for decades but that delusion has vaporised. Now that both the west and east are investing in Serbia and these republics want a crumb or two to fall off Belgrade’s table; to return to the “good old days” where manufacturing parts for certain items were made in various republics and employment was created.
According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia. No, it’s time for everyone to look after themselves and for Serbs to live on their own. Why should Serbs look after anyone in the old Yugo republics? Serbia carried Yugoslvaia on its back and look what happened. Now your suggesting a repeat.
As I also said its only Albos and Croats that hanker for Tito and brotherhood and unity. Live on your own and look after yourselves and don’t expect Serbia to do that for you.
Ps Look where Germany has got to looking after themselves.
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
(Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 12:03)
As I said the Croats, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Albos and Macedonians did not want to live in Yugoslavia. I have no objections with that, nor do I support violence, but now things are getting very hard in the former Yugo republics. The Croats have been telling themselves that Croatia was the financial backbone of Yugoslvaia for decades but that delusion has vaporised. Now that both the west and east are investing in Serbia and these republics want a crumb or two to fall off Belgrade’s table; to return to the “good old days” where manufacturing parts for certain items were made in various republics and employment was created.
According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia. No, it’s time for everyone to look after themselves and for Serbs to live on their own. Why should Serbs look after anyone in the old Yugo republics? Serbia carried Yugoslvaia on its back and look what happened. Now your suggesting a repeat.
As I also said its only Albos and Croats that hanker for Tito and brotherhood and unity. Live on your own and look after yourselves and don’t expect Serbia to do that for you.
Look at what happened to Germany when they looked after themselves.
@js: I agree partially. Is the productivity low because of salaries or because of the surrounding? A big problem comparing to germany is the amount of automatisation, there central and west europe are far away. Just look at traktors used here and in france or germany.
I think even with double salary outcome would be better than in germany, even if the german is double productive. They earn 5 times more in germany, so you could hire 4 people and still be cheaper than the production in germany when it is about salaries.
I agree with your observations. I am in an identical position except that my area stretches from Aranđelovac to Vranje (north to south) and Zaječar to Kraljevo (east to west). I also meet a wide range of people, from business owners and employees at embassies to farmers and unemployed. I would say the majority want either to join the EU or at least to be like western Europeans because of the perceived stability and economic benefits.
(JS, 22 January 2019 10:56)
If you had seven you still could not be this silly. A billionaire in Serbia who travels far and wide in Serbia meets with business people and embassy staff and yet left the US because of his enormous wealth LOL.
The backbone was beeing between west and east.
Croatia brought in foreign currencies thanks to tourism. Beside that it was pretty equal with serbia.
Gorenje is still producing in Serbia, the companies do not care so much about borders so also serbian companies will invest in the other former republics if it makes sence for them. At the moment the 'good' thing is, salaries in serbia are extremly low and the options to export to EU, Russia, Arab nations,... Sooner or later people will ask more money, we will see what happens than. It is difficult to live from 300 Euros that people get in factories, even in Serbia.
'According to you Serbia should also allow Albos from Kosovo to seek employment in Serbia', if Kosovo is Serbia, they are serbian citizens and have the same rights.
"Gorenje is still producing in Serbia, the companies do not care so much about borders so also serbian companies will invest in the other former republics if it makes sence for them. At the moment the 'good' thing is, salaries in serbia are extremly low and the options to export to EU, Russia, Arab nations,... Sooner or later people will ask more money, we will see what happens than. It is difficult to live from 300 Euros that people get in factories, even in Serbia. (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 16:16)
There is a problem with raising wages: the work level is not the same. If you pay a Serb by salary, you would not get anywhere close to the same amount of labor as hiring a German. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but rather ingrained habits. When I hire people they expect about five pauzas a day, lunch served to them, they show up late and go home early, they skip multiple days a month for slava, they don't show up when there is a bit of snow on the road, etc. And nearly everyone -- at least in my region -- works just so they have enough to live on. (There is almost no 'catch up with the Jones' mentality, which is a good thing but it means lower production per man hour.)
The labor here is cheap if you convert dinars into Euros, Pounds, or Dollars but the difference isnt so big if you take all factors into consideration.
Sj,
Your claim that the other ethnicities did not want to live in Jugoslavija, is simply not true. The fact is they did not want to live in a country where the federal gov’t was dominated by Serbs. Obviously, all the other ethnicities could not be wrong in their opinion of Serbia.
You people are all the same. You start fine but when unable to counter a point you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic raised by you. What has “being the backbone between the west and east” got to do with what we are talking about?
The reality was Yugoslavia the land of brotherhood and unity was a myth. Only Serbs held onto that myth.
Croatia still brings in foreign currencies due to tourism, but that is all and tourism lasts 3 months of the year. Croatia is on par with Serbia but Serbia will leave Croatia in the dust very soon despite being helped by the EU after the war. No one invests in Croatia. If Croatia did not access the EU fund it would look like Somalia.
Gorenje is Chinese mate. Keep up with the times. They had to relocate to Serbia because Slovenia is too small a market.
How do you think China started? Exactly the same way as Serbia; low salaries but today China is the No1 economy in the world despite the west chanting its the US. Its middle class is at 700 million. Of course, Serbia will not aspire or could reach those heights but it will have a fantastic living standard unlike those around her. Naturally, Serbs will ask for more money when the time is right.
Kosovo is Serbia but Albos are not.
The Yugoslvaia experiment is DEAD and its time for these new countries to look after themselves. To you Yugoslvaia looks better and better as the years go by but it was a fantasy.
There is a problem with raising wages: the work level is not the same. If you pay a Serb by salary, you would not get anywhere close to the same amount of labor as hiring a German. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but rather ingrained habits. When I hire people they expect about five pauzas a day, lunch served to them, they show up late and go home early, they skip multiple days a month for slava, they don't show up when there is a bit of snow on the road, etc. And nearly everyone -- at least in my region -- works just so they have enough to live on. (There is almost no 'catch up with the Jones' mentality, which is a good thing but it means lower production per man hour.)
The labor here is cheap if you convert dinars into Euros, Pounds, or Dollars but the difference isnt so big if you take all factors into consideration.
(JS, 22 January 2019 16:47)
Inst Serbia lucky to have such an entrepreneur/business person like you. You can show them the way of the US. After many decades of high wages the only jobs now created today are at $7.50 to $12.50 an hour and 70% of wage earners live from pay day to pay day.
See your hiring Serbs already. I just wonder if there is any oxygen on your planet.
"A big problem comparing to germany is the amount of automatisation, there central and west europe are far away. Just look at traktors used here and in france or germany."
That people choose to do jobs inefficiently is a major problem. Just an example....people in my village cut their firewood into small pieces with chainsaws. It is more dangerous and much more costly than using a small bandsaw.
"I think even with double salary outcome would be better than in germany, even if the german is double productive. They earn 5 times more in germany, so you could hire 4 people and still be cheaper than the production in germany when it is about salaries." (Tito reloaded, 22 January 2019 19:02)
But living costs are much higher. That needs to be figured into the equation because it also means that you can get a higher priced for marketed goods.
Yes, I can hire all these people to do work on my land but if I cannot resell my property for a German price and cannot sell my fruits and vegetables for a German price, how is that better?
Peggy,
How naive of you, referendums are the easiest to manipulate, all that is needed is to destroy those votes that are against you. This is the crudest form of manipulation, yet the most effective.
Milosevic used this method many times, and not just in referendums.
(Mary, 22 January 2019 15:30)
========================
Maybe you're the naïve one if you think that surveys are more accurate. They actually CHOOSE who they want to ask.
There is no perfect vehicle because they all can be manipulated but if you believe in polls then I can't help you.
You people are all the same. You start fine but when unable to counter a point you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic raised by you. What has “being the backbone between the west and east” got to do with what we are talking about?
The reality was Yugoslavia the land of brotherhood and unity was a myth. Only Serbs held onto that myth.
Croatia still brings in foreign currencies due to tourism, but that is all and tourism lasts 3 months of the year. Croatia is on par with Serbia but Serbia will leave Croatia in the dust very soon despite being helped by the EU after the war. No one invests in Croatia. If Croatia did not access the EU fund it would look like Somalia.
Gorenje is Chinese mate. Keep up with the times. They had to relocate to Serbia because Slovenia is too small a market.
How do you think China started? Exactly the same way as Serbia; low salaries but today China is the No1 economy in the world despite the west chanting its the US. Its middle class is at 700 million. Of course, Serbia will not aspire or could reach those heights but it will have a fantastic living standard unlike those around her. Naturally, Serbs will ask for more money when the time is right.
Kosovo is Serbia but Albos are not.
The Yugoslavia experiment is DEAD and its time for these new countries to look after themselves.
That is fine by me that they did not want to live in a federal government run by Serbs and now they don’t. So, its time to stand on your own and make your own way in Europe.
Now what these same ethnicities, who have found out that life is not what they thought it would be outside Yugoslavia, want somehow to tune into a similar arrangement that existed in the old Yugoslavia where manufacturing of an item took place in various republics thus creating employment. Serbia is attracting investment from all quarters. Why even US firms are opening up in Serbia. You do the same for your lot.
NO Albos will ever get employment in Serbia. Any labour shortfalls in Serbia will come from Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece etc but never Albos or Croats. Its sink or swim time and you had better learn to hold your breath.
IMAGE SOURCE
37 Komentari
Sortiraj po: