Reporting about <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/reports.php?yyyy=2017&mm=07&nav_id=101804" class="text-link" target= "_blank">the Western Balkans Summit in Trieste</a>, German newspaper Die Welt writes that "the EU wants to create a new mini-Yugoslavia in the Balkans."
That's not what you wrote initially, but anyway your new point above still does not make any sense since 6 of the 8 constitutive units of the SFRJ decided to break free. That's what they maintained, not me!
That’s what I wrote and it’s not my fault that your English doesn’t help you. Furthermore,you’re deluded if you think the so-called Republics had”decided” to break free-they didn’t “decide”- they just obeyed their foreign masters. Your delusions are hardly an escape from reality. It’s a way of understanding of how insane people living in a backwards world.
Can you show evidence that it was a certain "Lord Carington" who cast the votes for millions of people in Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia? Otherwise your mentioning of this "Lord Carrington" proves nothing to support any of your non-sense arguments.
Lord Peter Carrington was chosen as a chairman on the peace conference on Yugoslavia because of his expertise on foreign affairs.The voting that took place was completely irrelevant because the the big players-US-EU –had already decided for the dissolution of Yugoslavia.
Sure, but "a few others" would not prove much to support your argument, anyway, since it was millions of people in those 6 constitutive units of the SFRJ who voted to break free.
The voting wasn’t of any consequence at all,They did as they were told.If they were told to jump they would. Beggars can’t be choosers.
My initial point was the dissolution of Yugoslavia was pre-determined by outside forces and not by a desire of the constituent republics to break free as you maintain.
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
That's not what you wrote initially, but anyway your new point above still does not make any sense since 6 of the 8 constitutive units of the SFRJ decided to break free. That's what they maintained, not me!
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After all they were living together for many years and it’s beyond any reason that they’ve decided to break up Yugoslavia
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Since you are a nobody and they did not have to give reason to you about their decisions.
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In order to support my argument i mentioned Lord Carington
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Can you show evidence that it was a certain "Lord Carington" who cast the votes for millions of people in Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia? Otherwise your mentioning of this "Lord Carington" proves nothing to support any of your non-sense arguments.
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and I am sure i could add few others.
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Sure, but "a few others" would not prove much to support your argument, anyway, since it was millions of people in those 6 constitutive units of the SFRJ who voted to break free.
How nice of them. They certainly take Serbs for absolute fools.
Croatia and Slovenia get to be independent and mostly pure but Serbs are now going to be asked to be in a union with Muslims, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. You would have to be totally crazy to think that this can ensure peace even if Belgrade was to have more say.
It's always the Serbs who have to share power in their country. Serbs from Montenegro, Bosnia and Serbia will be always having to look over their shoulder because Albanians especially will always try to take the power and if they can't start another Kosovo war.
Why would Serbs even think about this and knowing this now why can't Serbs see that the west is only trying to ruin them?
Why would Serbs even think about this and knowing this now why can't Serbs see that the west is only trying to ruin them?
(Peggy, 17 July 2017 13:03)
Actually this mini Yugoslavia is pie in the sky stuff. The plan is to “re create” Yugoslavia in a fiscal sense not as a union. Slovenia and Croatia live off EU funds and with BiH, Macedonia, Montenegro all wanting to join the EU, money is a big issue. With the UK leaving the EU that is creating a huge funding hole.
So how does the EU solve its problems? Recreate Yugoslavia to a point where all the old republics trade and sell within the old boundaries. Now the EU realises that this is not palatable to Croats so they are sugar coating it for them, by saying “your one of us” but believe me they are being positioned to join this new Yugo. So if you have this why not put in Albania as well. Slovenia would join Serbia tomorrow if she could.
The flaws are that Serbia will only join if its financially to her advantage and that means she makes the big bucks. Secondly, accession talks have to be done at a fast pace otherwise Serbia just says bye bye EU.
The EU has no idea what it has taken on.
Hope the lunch and dinners were first class at this knees up.
THEY WERENT TURKS BEFORE 1923 WHEN THEIR LANGUAGE WAS FIRST WRITTEN BY 2 RUSSIAN PROFESSORS.
That's nonsense.As i said before instead of citing propaganda open a decent history book to educate yourself.Take a trip to Turkey and vistit either the National Museum or the Ottoman Archives.Here is a link:
It's now clear why Leonidas was not making any sense.
(icj1,
Your comment is a textbook example of reductio ad absurdum.I'd say you must urgently attempt to learn more about the logic of argumentation if you think that is so.My initial point was the dissolution of Yugoslavia was pre-determined by outside forces and not by a desire of the constituent republics to break free as you maintain.After all they were living together for many years and it’s beyond any reason that they’ve decided to break up Yugoslavia by military confrontation. In order to support my argument i mentioned Lord Carington and I am sure i could add few others.You,on the other hand,are of the view that the republics were forced to live together and asked me to devise a plan how they can live together again.The implication of your statement is no outside forces were involved in the break up of Yugoslavia which is laughable of course. If it is still too difficult for you to understand what i am saying you should perhaps try a publication with a lower reading age.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
Never heard of the Vance-Owen plan? No? Or the Owen-Stoltenberg plan? No?What about the Washington agreement? No?
(Mate Boban, 15 July 2017 13:06)
Few people, if any, have heard any of the above force-feeding any union to anybody. But if you have, feel free to let the world know about what you have heard lol
the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II
(Leonidas, 14 July 2017 12:13)
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:39)
For an ustasha crackwh*re it's pretty hard to think clearly when high on drugs and a co*k shoved deep
(Mate Boban, 15 July 2017 13:06)
I wasn't aware those were the activities you were performing with our dear friend Leonidas when he/she came up with the fantasy that he/she wrote but, thanks to your post, it's now clear why Leonidas was not making any sense.
In all honesty, EU membership will destroy the Balkans just like it did Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Portugal, italy etc. The only countries that benefit from the EU are western and Northern European nations as the whole system is set up in their favour. I know they've sold you this kumbaya, one big happy family dream but the sad reality is totally different. The EU is being flooded by migrants, debts, terrorists and god knows what else. The whole bloc is on life support and the faster countries leave and return to sovereignty and national borders the better it will be for the whole continent. We need to put an end to the totalitarian regime that is the EU and strip Brussels of its power over the continent. I'm not saying we should stop trading with eachother and visiting each other's nations, what we should be doing is scrapping the EU and the Euro and returning back the old style common market, where everyone can compete and prosper. After that the next logical step is deporting all migrants back home and shutting down all open borders and arresting the human traffickers masquerading as NGOs.
Greek historian: Greece was Albanian, even today a half of Greeks are Albanians ... you rather say that Alexander the Grate is Chinise then He is Albanian (The True history, 14 July 2017 21:58)
LEGENDS OF ALEXANDER APPEARED FIRST IN 15 CENTURY AFTER THE FALL OF THE BYZANTINE WHEN FORMER PATRIARCH OF THE EMPIRE BESSARION STARTED TO CALL FOR A CRUSADER WAR AGAINST THE GREAT HORDE TO WHICH MEHMET II BELONGED. BESSARION TOOK LIFESTORY OF MEHMET AND WITH LITTLE CHANGES PUBLISHED IT AS STORY OF SOME LEGENDARY ALEXANDER. SO HE CALLED TO RESTORE THE EMPIRE. IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED WELL ENOUGH WHILE ISKANDER UL-AHAD (ALEXANDER THE GREAT) WAS ONE OF THE 9 NAMES THAT WERE USED FOR MEHMET II AKA TAMERLANE. BEFORE 15 CENTURY NO MENTIONING OF ALEXANDER WAS REGISTERED ANYWHERE. HERE'S THE FULL LIST OF THE NAMES OF MEHMET II AKA TAMERLANE :
«Великий Эмир», Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган
ALSO GREEK BECAME ETHNICAL TERMIN IN 19 CENTURY. BEFORE THAT IT ONLY POINTED AT THE BELIEF OF A MAN AND NOTHING ELSE. SIMPLY BECAUSE THE FIRST NATIONS WERE FORMED IN 17 CENTURY ONLY AND IT WAS IN WESTERN EUROPE ONLY. OTHER NATIONS WERE FORMED IN 18-2O CENTURIES ONLY AND IT BROUGHT MANKIND TO MULTIPLE TRAGEDIES ...
No Greek Byzantine historian has ever placed the Albanians in the Balkans.In fact Kontantinos Porfyroghenitos called them the Albanians a tribe of Caucasus.
During the Turkish domination there was no Albanian nation.The inhabitants of today’s Albania were distinguished by their faith The Orthodox ones were placed among the rest of Greeks ... Turko-Albanians used by the Ottoman side to slaughter the Greeks and to commit genocides.While Italy and Austria were striving for their own reasons to establish an Albanian state ...
NOW AND THEN YOU WRITE THINGS THAT ARE RATHER CLOSE TO THE TRUTH. BUT YOU FORGET THAT IN THE MIDDLE AGES TURKS WERE RUS COSSACKS AS WELL AS THE JANISSARI (IOANA SARJA) WERE RUS ORTHODOX BEFORE THEY WERE MASSACRED IN 1826. IN TANZIMAT PERIOD AFTER THAT THE KURDS AND NORTHERN CAUCASIANS PLAYED THE MAIN ROLE IN THE EMPIRE. MAYBE THE SHQIPTARS TOO - THIS I DON'T KNOW. THEY WERENT TURKS BEFORE 1923 WHEN THEIR LANGUAGE WAS FIRST WRITTEN BY 2 RUSSIAN PROFESSORS. OSMANI LANGUAGE WAS AS FAR FROM TURKISH AS GREEK FROM MAURI AND URDU LANGUAGES. BEFORE ERDOGAN TURKS STARTING FROM ATATURK ALWAYS HATED THE OTTOMANS.
ARMENIANS ARE A QUITE DIFFERENT STORY. DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ARMENINS IN FORMER USSR AND THE DIASPORA IN THE WEST VIEW THEIR HISTORY QUITE DIFFERENT. OUR ARMENIANS CAL IT HISTORY OF ARMENIA WHILE WESTERN ONES FOR 200 YEARS INSIST ON THE HISTORY OF THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE. THOSE ARE QUITE DIFFERENT THINGS YOU KNOW ...
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:39)
I understand. For an ustasha crackwh*re it's pretty hard to think clearly when high on drugs and a co*k shoved deep in your throat, so let me help you to understand.
By "collective agreement to get a violent divorce" he maybe means WAR. No?
Date: 25 June 1991 – 28 April 1992, Location: Yugoslavia, Outcome: Yugoslav state replaced by five new states.
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union..yadayadayada
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
Never heard of the Vance-Owen plan? No? Or the Owen-Stoltenberg plan? No?
What about the Washington agreement? No?
You're a lost cause..
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
It's clear to anyone with a brain.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 22:22)
Anyone with a brain is able to see your dreams?! lol
Poor njegos... You might want to collect your thoughts and give it another try. Hopefully you'll make more sense next time - just don't write your dreams; they are pretty weird :)
From icj1 the Serb Hater: "It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)"
It's clear to anyone with a brain. I've noticed that in many of the posts that you respond to, you have a great deal of difficulty understanding the points that are being conveyed. Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem, or perhaps you're just not very smart. In either case, it must be tough going through life as icj1, the Serb Hater (who is clearly intellectually challenged).
Me trying to talk sense here is like going to devil and talk about Engels?
Greek historian: Greece was Albanian, even today a half of Greeks are Albanians
Maria Efthimiou, a professor of history at the University of Athens, awarded with honorary price by Greek Presidency is engaged in teaching in multiple fields, here she gives a lecture on Arvanites (Albanians) in Greece.
You go and see what the people in Universty of Athens learn you brainwashed Person or non educated person as usual Serbs are just by Qetnik learn of course you will hate anything about Albania you rather say that Alexander the Grate is Chinise then He is Albanian but again just who you are street history that's what you have learned.
I have Serbian Freind from Vojvodina and he says I can't wait unite we leave Serbia and Vojvodina will be independent as I am a shamed to tell anyone that I am from a country tha caused so many horrible crimes in so many countries in Europe
Your weird view of the Greek Arvanitophones conveys either ignorance or distortion of History.To start with ,Arvanite migration into Greece happened around 1350 AD and therefore they could not maintain Albanian national conscience as such a thing emerged just in 1878 with the Prizren (Kosovo) League by all means fabricated by foreign powers and religious propaganda.No Greek Byzantine historian has ever placed the Albanians in the Balkans.In fact Kontantinos Porfyroghenitos called them the Albanians a tribe of Caucasus.
During the Turkish domination there was no Albanian nation.The inhabitants of today’s Albania were distinguished by their faith The Orthodox ones were placed among the rest of Greeks while those of Muslim faith-the overwhelming majority- felt themselves as Turks hence he term Turk-Albanian.If there is a need to mention any Albanian participation to the Greek Liberation Struggle then we should not refer to Arvanites but instead to Turko-Albanians used by the Ottoman side to slaughter the Greeks and to commit genocides.While Italy and Austria were striving for their own reasons to establish an Albanian state with a view to control the entry to the Adriatic Sea,the Turko-Albanians hoisted the Ottoman flag in Dyrrachion.Moreover during the Balkan wars the Muslims of Albania fought on the orders of the Ottoman Army.After 1908 a number of members to the Neo-Turk committee that plotted the pogroms against the Greeks and Armenians were Turk-Albanians
the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II
(Leonidas, 14 July 2017 12:13)
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
I can seen on here to how you guys are going mad 😡 soon as someone speaks about Albanians but we know it's not your fault because they told you to do so they tough you to hate so and now the hate for Albanians it is inside you.
An old man Avranites (Arbresh) from Athens told me a story he said that today we have a problem in Athens with people that come from Asia and they called them selfs Greek Everything we say or do like how strong and clever we are or for our ancestors they say it's us it's Greek and you Albanians are nothing etc... one day honestly to god no lies he said my son gone a took a real dog shit honestly dog shit and he was telling them look this is Albanians real mans shit big strong etc... all of them start shouting it's ours we do have same shit you are stilling from us and Now you see who really todays Greeks are.
I do feel sorry for many people in Greece,Serbia,Rumania,Macedonia,Montenegro that they really don't know who they really are and been in one country doesn't mean you're are from that country I can promise 100% that all you guys here have Albanians blood on your veins.
Start from your self and move next that's what they won't let you do just what they tell you to do and who they want you to be and you to believe at ...✌🏼
before talking about ignorance learn the name of the geographical peninsula greece is located in.
# hint its BALKAN
Again desperate stretch of reality to be more "western" :)
Most of present day continental greece, 95% of it, was under TURKISH rule in the last 500 years, not Venice.
Some 5% - the islands were under Venetian rule - even that does not make them any less Balkanic.
nice desperation, its amusing. XD
"Southern Italy is a geographical term which is part of Western Europe"
ahhahaha here we go again.
greek desperate to be seen as "WESTERN"
- denies existence of southern europe. XD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe
Go on, your desperate twist of reality is amusing. XD
The true history
you lost all credibility when you stated there are 1,5 mil Albanians in Macedonia. you show you have zero idea what you are talking about.
and now you confirm, wikipedia is not a relevant source but "you going and talking to someone in Macedonia" is a relevant statistical source.
XD
at this point you can state there are 150 milion albanians in Macedonia, it would be just as crazy.
for the last time. Macedonian population are about 1,5 mil.
from the total of the population 20% are albanians. that is 300k.
the 20% albanian population is shown
# on national census every time in the last 30 years.
# on every political vote, albanian parties get about 20% of the vote, in the last 30 years, every time.
There is no lie there, and i have nothing against the Macedonian Albanians.
Just your information about 1,5 mil is totally wrong.
you can continue to believe whatever you want, you can believe there are 150 mil albanians there, just its not correct.
From the true history: "...in Albania are over 3 million Albanians in Kosovo over 2 million Albanians in Serbia over 2 million in sanxhak over 1 million Albanians in Macedonia over 1.5 million Albanians in Montenegro..."
Put the crack pipe down pal. There are only 650,000 people in all of Montenegro and somehow you claim there are 1,500,000 Albanians there. You guys really do live in your own little world. Your history is anything but true.
and just listen to the desperate attempt to be "western europe" listen to it: more similarities with western European like Southern Italy!!!
WESTERN European like -> Southern Italy
ahahahhaahah ;)
You remind me the usual ignorant crowd which start their postings with hahaha and finish with LOL.If you knew a bit of history you would've known that Southern Greece and the islands were under the Venetians for most of the last 600 years leading to independence.
Newsflsh 2# genius Southern Italy I S as the name suggests, southern Europe, not western.
Southern Italy is a geographical term which is part of Western Europe as the whole of Italy.Only morons cannot see this or people like you who are ashamed of their Turkish roots.Lets see what Turkish Ottoman historian Mehmet Inbasi had to say about Skopje under Ottomans:
“Having strategic significance as located in the borders, the city of Skopje was subjected to a systematic settlement of Turkic people after the conquest.[..]It is, however, obvious that Ottoman conquests were made to settle there, which were not just temporary adventurous or marauding movements.” “Such places as Plovdiv, Babadag, Elbasan, Sarajevo, Silistre and Skopje had been rearranged by the uc-begis in such a way to be new Turkish cities“.
Have a nice day.
Macedonia
With 20% of population you are going with Wikipedia are you but I tell you that's wrong
I have met Albanians i Macedonia and they kids that are under 19 years of age that haven't been counting yet as Macedonia politics and you think how much Albanian population have grown in 19 years and pluse old Macedonian people are Albanians that been assimilated with force or economic favours at the time which are now wakening up as speaking that their family where Albanians
From Blackeagle: "Albanian confederacy for albanians only. No slavs are welcome"
So you mean Croatians aren't welcome Blackeagle? I thought they were going to help you with your little army that Thaci keeps telling us about? Please clarify this for us please. LOL
"No thanks! We dont want to have anything to do with slavs again.
BlackEagle"
Why you want to enter EU than, there are a lot of Slavs already in Europe?
How are you cooperate in EU when all the region Slavs are in the union too, with this attitude?
THIS is precisely why EU is not for you while you have this attitude.
You fail to understand EU and its basic values.
Cheers.
leonida
"The only people in Greece with significant cultural similarities with Balkans, are northern Greeks.. the rest of Greece has some similarities with balkans but more similarities with western European like Southern Italy.."
T H I S
in one sentence
shows all you need to know about the delusional greek worldview.
Newsflash genius Greece I S the balkans.
and just listen to the desperate attempt to be "western europe" listen to it: more similarities with western European like Southern Italy!!!
WESTERN European like -> Southern Italy
ahahahhaahah ;)
Newsflsh 2# genius Southern Italy I S as the name suggests, southern Europe, not western.
Leonidas and Zoran should probably tell the EU the magic formula for forcing Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia to remain in a single country with Serbia against their will. Let's see who between Leonidas and Zoran will come up with the best formula lol
(icj1,
Only deluded people like a certain icj1 aka reader aka eu citizen think that the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II.Furthermore,only icj1 believes this violent divorce wasn't initiated by bigger players in EU & US.Since the subject needs a lot of space to explain it properly i would ask icj1 to read a statement made by Lord Peter Carrington former British Foreign minister and chairman of the Geneva-based conference on Yugoslavia who said the US&EU "made it sure there was going to be a conflict" in that region.
I will not consider your other numbers. Just this that i know very well.
The t o t a l of the population of Macedonia is 1,5mil.
How can they be 1,5mil just the Albanians?
Albanians are about 20%.
20% BOTH by census data and by political votes for the Albanian parties.
20% stable percentage for decades.
You know how much is 20% out of 1,5 million?
You have ANY idea about Macedonian population?
Because you can also say there are 15 million albanians in Macedonia at this point.
The only people in Greece with significant cultural similarities with Balkans, are northern Greeks, representing less than 40% of the population. the rest of Greece has some similarities with balkans but more similarities with western European like Southern Italy.For example, the old architecture of Pelloponese and Central Greece and islands was similar to Italian, but the architecture of northern Greece is similar to Balkan and Turkish. Not to mention that Greeks were not part of Byzantium since 1204, when they were occupied by venetians, and of course were influenced by their culture especially in South.
With regards to your comment that the EU made a mistake in admitting Greece as a member i think the mistake was on the part of Greece because she left a military dictatorship to join a pseudo-political one.Prior to becoming a member Greece had a growing industry and relatively low debt levels ($26 billion in 1981).However,I do think the EU is in the process of playing its last tunes and when the music stops playing there will be a lot of upheaval in every single country.Watch this space.
I think this will the best think for Albania 🇦🇱 and technically is creating the Union of Albanians as they always wanted in Albania are over 3 million Albanians in Kosovo over 2 million Albanians in Serbia over 2 million in sanxhak over 1 million Albanians in Macedonia over 1.5 million Albanians in Montenegro over 100k Albanians
Bosnia or all boshnjakis they always have gone with Albanians as they are brothers and now you all guess Who will be beneficial from Union in Balkan
I personally think that Serbia should apologise to kosovo and Bosnia for crimes the Committed and stop trying to still fight as believe me it will backfire on them as it always have
Vucic style of politics is stupid
And is like the wind sometimes with Russia sometimes with the west I hope both they fuc...k him.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there. Like Yugoslavia, it won't last. And should the EU try something similar on a grander scale with the Balkans as this article suggests, it too will go up in flames...after much death and destruction.
Nope no! No more "bakan unions". Balkan countries desperately need to open to Europe and the west. Not even more closure within the Balkans. Nothing less than a full EU membership!
The regret in the Balkans is that Tito's Jugoslavija dissolved. I suspect that there is very little regret that that of Milosevic broke up. Should the new grouping be a union of equals then it sounds like a step forward. If, as Die Welt suggests, it becomes another vehicle for Serbia to try and achieve hegemony in the region then we will be back to 1990/91.
(ned taylor, 13 July 2017 19:02)
This Tito nostalgia is very annoying. The difference between Slobo and Tito is that one tried to get rid of all non-serbs and the other one tried to get rid of all non-communist party members. Yugoslavia was already in deep trouble when Tito died and its only because Slobo was a massmurdering d***head that people somehow forgot how bad it was under communist rule. It only went from bad to worse.
You have to be kidding me??? Germany was one of the main culprets responsible for the breakup of Yugoslavia, one of the most diverse multi-cultural countries in Europe. Bo fourth Reich, PLEASE!!!!!
The only benefit of the dissolution of Yugoslavia is that Tito's Communism was broken and destroyed. Unfortunately, some of the Communist Apparatchik remnants are still around and living throughout the former Yugoslavia without trial or recourse. The true war criminal Tito lied in a Belgrade grave and still gets venerated by these Communists who now call themselves Nationalists. The British government and Winston Churchill can go to hell, they put the real Yugoslav government under house arrest while allowing the Tito's partisan criminals to destroy Yugoslavia.
Even if Serbia's southern province is treated as an equal member, Serbia will be the focal point of the entire project. Serbia would be central not just geographically, but will be the largest country to partake. It will in effect solidify Serbia's role as the leader in the region.
(Ari Gold, 13 July 2017 16:34)
Brilliant idea, Ari!
So Serbia is going to play the role of the kapo in a concentration camp, hated by both the prisoners and the Nazis. Did you intentionally type cast Serbia for that role.
Why would you show Montenegro as a part of Serbia? Montenegro is in NATO, and will soon join in the EU. Much, much more successful country than Serbia. Montenegro, along with Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary is a winner in the Balkans. Serbia is a loser.
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.
(Leonidas, 13 July 2017 14:07)
The EU/US made a complete mess of the former YU. They destroyed it
(Zoran, 13 July 2017 13:45)
Leonidas and Zoran should probably tell the EU the magic formula for forcing Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia to remain in a single country with Serbia against their will. Let's see who between Leonidas and Zoran will come up with the best formula lol
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.Even the sweeteners they used to throw around every now and then will become a thing of the past after Brexit.
(Leonidas, 13 July 2017 14:07)
Leonidas,
I know you won't like hearing this but, Greece is still part of the Balkans.
The only mistake the EU made was to admit Greece prematurely. Before gaining membership in the EU, as part of the Balkans Greece was top dog. Now as part of the EU, Greece is, unfortunately, runt of the litter.
The regret in the Balkans is that Tito's Jugoslavija dissolved. I suspect that there is very little regret that that of Milosevic broke up. Should the new grouping be a union of equals then it sounds like a step forward. If, as Die Welt suggests, it becomes another vehicle for Serbia to try and achieve hegemony in the region then we will be back to 1990/91.
The EU doesn't want to let in these countries into their club, and see this bloc as a substitute for actual membership. Anyway who is not blind can see this. That being said, it is in Serbia's interest for this bloc to be formed as long as it is completely economical and not political.
Even if Serbia's southern province is treated as an equal member, Serbia will be the focal point of the entire project. Serbia would be central not just geographically, but will be the largest country to partake. It will in effect solidify Serbia's role as the leader in the region.
In fact, this bloc has the ability to do for Serbia what the EU did for Germany. The EU is really only good for Germany because it has a major trade surplus with the rest of the members. Same goes for Serbia. Other countries in the region know this and will do what they can do stop this project.
What a surprise that the EU wants to recreate Yugoslavia but not in the true sense. Brussels wants to return that region to its old ways where the new countries work as they did when they were mere republics because the financial burden of propping up actually financially failed states of Croatia, Slovenia, BiH, Montenegro and Macedonia is affecting their bottom line.
However, here is the problem. One people want no part of this half baked scheme and they are the Serbs LOL. Result is plan is dead as the DoDo bird.
Message to Brussels – you wanted the breakup of Yugoslavia now wear it.
Fine, As long as Albania and the Albanian parts of Kosovo are excluded! We don't need these terrorists and organ traffickers in the region. Send them back to their homeland of turkey.
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.Even the sweeteners they used to throw around every now and then will become a thing of the past after Brexit.
The EU/US made a complete mess of the former YU. They destroyed it, divided it, turned everyone against each other and now don't know what to do.
It's not any surprise that not only nations in the former YU, but Eastern Europe as a whole are looking elsewhere. Check -> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-12/china-s-new-silk-road-encroaches-on-u-s-turf-in-eastern-europe
Rather than destroying Yugoslavia, they should have taken it in as a whole and then resolve border issues within the EU, where borders remained open. Too late, time to let others in as the EU and Western alliance is falling apart.
You have to be kidding me??? Germany was one of the main culprets responsible for the breakup of Yugoslavia, one of the most diverse multi-cultural countries in Europe. Bo fourth Reich, PLEASE!!!!!
From the true history: "...in Albania are over 3 million Albanians in Kosovo over 2 million Albanians in Serbia over 2 million in sanxhak over 1 million Albanians in Macedonia over 1.5 million Albanians in Montenegro..."
Put the crack pipe down pal. There are only 650,000 people in all of Montenegro and somehow you claim there are 1,500,000 Albanians there. You guys really do live in your own little world. Your history is anything but true.
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.Even the sweeteners they used to throw around every now and then will become a thing of the past after Brexit.
The EU/US made a complete mess of the former YU. They destroyed it, divided it, turned everyone against each other and now don't know what to do.
It's not any surprise that not only nations in the former YU, but Eastern Europe as a whole are looking elsewhere. Check -> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-12/china-s-new-silk-road-encroaches-on-u-s-turf-in-eastern-europe
Rather than destroying Yugoslavia, they should have taken it in as a whole and then resolve border issues within the EU, where borders remained open. Too late, time to let others in as the EU and Western alliance is falling apart.
From Blackeagle: "Albanian confederacy for albanians only. No slavs are welcome"
So you mean Croatians aren't welcome Blackeagle? I thought they were going to help you with your little army that Thaci keeps telling us about? Please clarify this for us please. LOL
What a surprise that the EU wants to recreate Yugoslavia but not in the true sense. Brussels wants to return that region to its old ways where the new countries work as they did when they were mere republics because the financial burden of propping up actually financially failed states of Croatia, Slovenia, BiH, Montenegro and Macedonia is affecting their bottom line.
However, here is the problem. One people want no part of this half baked scheme and they are the Serbs LOL. Result is plan is dead as the DoDo bird.
Message to Brussels – you wanted the breakup of Yugoslavia now wear it.
Fine, As long as Albania and the Albanian parts of Kosovo are excluded! We don't need these terrorists and organ traffickers in the region. Send them back to their homeland of turkey.
From icj1 the Serb Hater: "It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)"
It's clear to anyone with a brain. I've noticed that in many of the posts that you respond to, you have a great deal of difficulty understanding the points that are being conveyed. Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem, or perhaps you're just not very smart. In either case, it must be tough going through life as icj1, the Serb Hater (who is clearly intellectually challenged).
The EU doesn't want to let in these countries into their club, and see this bloc as a substitute for actual membership. Anyway who is not blind can see this. That being said, it is in Serbia's interest for this bloc to be formed as long as it is completely economical and not political.
Even if Serbia's southern province is treated as an equal member, Serbia will be the focal point of the entire project. Serbia would be central not just geographically, but will be the largest country to partake. It will in effect solidify Serbia's role as the leader in the region.
In fact, this bloc has the ability to do for Serbia what the EU did for Germany. The EU is really only good for Germany because it has a major trade surplus with the rest of the members. Same goes for Serbia. Other countries in the region know this and will do what they can do stop this project.
Why would Serbs even think about this and knowing this now why can't Serbs see that the west is only trying to ruin them?
(Peggy, 17 July 2017 13:03)
Actually this mini Yugoslavia is pie in the sky stuff. The plan is to “re create” Yugoslavia in a fiscal sense not as a union. Slovenia and Croatia live off EU funds and with BiH, Macedonia, Montenegro all wanting to join the EU, money is a big issue. With the UK leaving the EU that is creating a huge funding hole.
So how does the EU solve its problems? Recreate Yugoslavia to a point where all the old republics trade and sell within the old boundaries. Now the EU realises that this is not palatable to Croats so they are sugar coating it for them, by saying “your one of us” but believe me they are being positioned to join this new Yugo. So if you have this why not put in Albania as well. Slovenia would join Serbia tomorrow if she could.
The flaws are that Serbia will only join if its financially to her advantage and that means she makes the big bucks. Secondly, accession talks have to be done at a fast pace otherwise Serbia just says bye bye EU.
The EU has no idea what it has taken on.
Hope the lunch and dinners were first class at this knees up.
The regret in the Balkans is that Tito's Jugoslavija dissolved. I suspect that there is very little regret that that of Milosevic broke up. Should the new grouping be a union of equals then it sounds like a step forward. If, as Die Welt suggests, it becomes another vehicle for Serbia to try and achieve hegemony in the region then we will be back to 1990/91.
(ned taylor, 13 July 2017 19:02)
This Tito nostalgia is very annoying. The difference between Slobo and Tito is that one tried to get rid of all non-serbs and the other one tried to get rid of all non-communist party members. Yugoslavia was already in deep trouble when Tito died and its only because Slobo was a massmurdering d***head that people somehow forgot how bad it was under communist rule. It only went from bad to worse.
Leonidas and Zoran should probably tell the EU the magic formula for forcing Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia to remain in a single country with Serbia against their will. Let's see who between Leonidas and Zoran will come up with the best formula lol
(icj1,
Only deluded people like a certain icj1 aka reader aka eu citizen think that the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II.Furthermore,only icj1 believes this violent divorce wasn't initiated by bigger players in EU & US.Since the subject needs a lot of space to explain it properly i would ask icj1 to read a statement made by Lord Peter Carrington former British Foreign minister and chairman of the Geneva-based conference on Yugoslavia who said the US&EU "made it sure there was going to be a conflict" in that region.
and just listen to the desperate attempt to be "western europe" listen to it: more similarities with western European like Southern Italy!!!
WESTERN European like -> Southern Italy
ahahahhaahah ;)
You remind me the usual ignorant crowd which start their postings with hahaha and finish with LOL.If you knew a bit of history you would've known that Southern Greece and the islands were under the Venetians for most of the last 600 years leading to independence.
Newsflsh 2# genius Southern Italy I S as the name suggests, southern Europe, not western.
Southern Italy is a geographical term which is part of Western Europe as the whole of Italy.Only morons cannot see this or people like you who are ashamed of their Turkish roots.Lets see what Turkish Ottoman historian Mehmet Inbasi had to say about Skopje under Ottomans:
“Having strategic significance as located in the borders, the city of Skopje was subjected to a systematic settlement of Turkic people after the conquest.[..]It is, however, obvious that Ottoman conquests were made to settle there, which were not just temporary adventurous or marauding movements.” “Such places as Plovdiv, Babadag, Elbasan, Sarajevo, Silistre and Skopje had been rearranged by the uc-begis in such a way to be new Turkish cities“.
Have a nice day.
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:39)
I understand. For an ustasha crackwh*re it's pretty hard to think clearly when high on drugs and a co*k shoved deep in your throat, so let me help you to understand.
By "collective agreement to get a violent divorce" he maybe means WAR. No?
Date: 25 June 1991 – 28 April 1992, Location: Yugoslavia, Outcome: Yugoslav state replaced by five new states.
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union..yadayadayada
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
Never heard of the Vance-Owen plan? No? Or the Owen-Stoltenberg plan? No?
What about the Washington agreement? No?
You're a lost cause..
In all honesty, EU membership will destroy the Balkans just like it did Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Portugal, italy etc. The only countries that benefit from the EU are western and Northern European nations as the whole system is set up in their favour. I know they've sold you this kumbaya, one big happy family dream but the sad reality is totally different. The EU is being flooded by migrants, debts, terrorists and god knows what else. The whole bloc is on life support and the faster countries leave and return to sovereignty and national borders the better it will be for the whole continent. We need to put an end to the totalitarian regime that is the EU and strip Brussels of its power over the continent. I'm not saying we should stop trading with eachother and visiting each other's nations, what we should be doing is scrapping the EU and the Euro and returning back the old style common market, where everyone can compete and prosper. After that the next logical step is deporting all migrants back home and shutting down all open borders and arresting the human traffickers masquerading as NGOs.
"No thanks! We dont want to have anything to do with slavs again.
BlackEagle"
Why you want to enter EU than, there are a lot of Slavs already in Europe?
How are you cooperate in EU when all the region Slavs are in the union too, with this attitude?
THIS is precisely why EU is not for you while you have this attitude.
You fail to understand EU and its basic values.
Cheers.
How nice of them. They certainly take Serbs for absolute fools.
Croatia and Slovenia get to be independent and mostly pure but Serbs are now going to be asked to be in a union with Muslims, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. You would have to be totally crazy to think that this can ensure peace even if Belgrade was to have more say.
It's always the Serbs who have to share power in their country. Serbs from Montenegro, Bosnia and Serbia will be always having to look over their shoulder because Albanians especially will always try to take the power and if they can't start another Kosovo war.
Why would Serbs even think about this and knowing this now why can't Serbs see that the west is only trying to ruin them?
Even if Serbia's southern province is treated as an equal member, Serbia will be the focal point of the entire project. Serbia would be central not just geographically, but will be the largest country to partake. It will in effect solidify Serbia's role as the leader in the region.
(Ari Gold, 13 July 2017 16:34)
Brilliant idea, Ari!
So Serbia is going to play the role of the kapo in a concentration camp, hated by both the prisoners and the Nazis. Did you intentionally type cast Serbia for that role.
Your weird view of the Greek Arvanitophones conveys either ignorance or distortion of History.To start with ,Arvanite migration into Greece happened around 1350 AD and therefore they could not maintain Albanian national conscience as such a thing emerged just in 1878 with the Prizren (Kosovo) League by all means fabricated by foreign powers and religious propaganda.No Greek Byzantine historian has ever placed the Albanians in the Balkans.In fact Kontantinos Porfyroghenitos called them the Albanians a tribe of Caucasus.
During the Turkish domination there was no Albanian nation.The inhabitants of today’s Albania were distinguished by their faith The Orthodox ones were placed among the rest of Greeks while those of Muslim faith-the overwhelming majority- felt themselves as Turks hence he term Turk-Albanian.If there is a need to mention any Albanian participation to the Greek Liberation Struggle then we should not refer to Arvanites but instead to Turko-Albanians used by the Ottoman side to slaughter the Greeks and to commit genocides.While Italy and Austria were striving for their own reasons to establish an Albanian state with a view to control the entry to the Adriatic Sea,the Turko-Albanians hoisted the Ottoman flag in Dyrrachion.Moreover during the Balkan wars the Muslims of Albania fought on the orders of the Ottoman Army.After 1908 a number of members to the Neo-Turk committee that plotted the pogroms against the Greeks and Armenians were Turk-Albanians
Why would you show Montenegro as a part of Serbia? Montenegro is in NATO, and will soon join in the EU. Much, much more successful country than Serbia. Montenegro, along with Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary is a winner in the Balkans. Serbia is a loser.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there. Like Yugoslavia, it won't last. And should the EU try something similar on a grander scale with the Balkans as this article suggests, it too will go up in flames...after much death and destruction.
The only people in Greece with significant cultural similarities with Balkans, are northern Greeks, representing less than 40% of the population. the rest of Greece has some similarities with balkans but more similarities with western European like Southern Italy.For example, the old architecture of Pelloponese and Central Greece and islands was similar to Italian, but the architecture of northern Greece is similar to Balkan and Turkish. Not to mention that Greeks were not part of Byzantium since 1204, when they were occupied by venetians, and of course were influenced by their culture especially in South.
With regards to your comment that the EU made a mistake in admitting Greece as a member i think the mistake was on the part of Greece because she left a military dictatorship to join a pseudo-political one.Prior to becoming a member Greece had a growing industry and relatively low debt levels ($26 billion in 1981).However,I do think the EU is in the process of playing its last tunes and when the music stops playing there will be a lot of upheaval in every single country.Watch this space.
The true history
you lost all credibility when you stated there are 1,5 mil Albanians in Macedonia. you show you have zero idea what you are talking about.
and now you confirm, wikipedia is not a relevant source but "you going and talking to someone in Macedonia" is a relevant statistical source.
XD
at this point you can state there are 150 milion albanians in Macedonia, it would be just as crazy.
for the last time. Macedonian population are about 1,5 mil.
from the total of the population 20% are albanians. that is 300k.
the 20% albanian population is shown
# on national census every time in the last 30 years.
# on every political vote, albanian parties get about 20% of the vote, in the last 30 years, every time.
There is no lie there, and i have nothing against the Macedonian Albanians.
Just your information about 1,5 mil is totally wrong.
you can continue to believe whatever you want, you can believe there are 150 mil albanians there, just its not correct.
Me trying to talk sense here is like going to devil and talk about Engels?
Greek historian: Greece was Albanian, even today a half of Greeks are Albanians
Maria Efthimiou, a professor of history at the University of Athens, awarded with honorary price by Greek Presidency is engaged in teaching in multiple fields, here she gives a lecture on Arvanites (Albanians) in Greece.
You go and see what the people in Universty of Athens learn you brainwashed Person or non educated person as usual Serbs are just by Qetnik learn of course you will hate anything about Albania you rather say that Alexander the Grate is Chinise then He is Albanian but again just who you are street history that's what you have learned.
I have Serbian Freind from Vojvodina and he says I can't wait unite we leave Serbia and Vojvodina will be independent as I am a shamed to tell anyone that I am from a country tha caused so many horrible crimes in so many countries in Europe
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.Even the sweeteners they used to throw around every now and then will become a thing of the past after Brexit.
(Leonidas, 13 July 2017 14:07)
Leonidas,
I know you won't like hearing this but, Greece is still part of the Balkans.
The only mistake the EU made was to admit Greece prematurely. Before gaining membership in the EU, as part of the Balkans Greece was top dog. Now as part of the EU, Greece is, unfortunately, runt of the litter.
The only benefit of the dissolution of Yugoslavia is that Tito's Communism was broken and destroyed. Unfortunately, some of the Communist Apparatchik remnants are still around and living throughout the former Yugoslavia without trial or recourse. The true war criminal Tito lied in a Belgrade grave and still gets venerated by these Communists who now call themselves Nationalists. The British government and Winston Churchill can go to hell, they put the real Yugoslav government under house arrest while allowing the Tito's partisan criminals to destroy Yugoslavia.
It's now clear why Leonidas was not making any sense.
(icj1,
Your comment is a textbook example of reductio ad absurdum.I'd say you must urgently attempt to learn more about the logic of argumentation if you think that is so.My initial point was the dissolution of Yugoslavia was pre-determined by outside forces and not by a desire of the constituent republics to break free as you maintain.After all they were living together for many years and it’s beyond any reason that they’ve decided to break up Yugoslavia by military confrontation. In order to support my argument i mentioned Lord Carington and I am sure i could add few others.You,on the other hand,are of the view that the republics were forced to live together and asked me to devise a plan how they can live together again.The implication of your statement is no outside forces were involved in the break up of Yugoslavia which is laughable of course. If it is still too difficult for you to understand what i am saying you should perhaps try a publication with a lower reading age.
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.
(Leonidas, 13 July 2017 14:07)
The EU/US made a complete mess of the former YU. They destroyed it
(Zoran, 13 July 2017 13:45)
Leonidas and Zoran should probably tell the EU the magic formula for forcing Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia to remain in a single country with Serbia against their will. Let's see who between Leonidas and Zoran will come up with the best formula lol
The regret in the Balkans is that Tito's Jugoslavija dissolved. I suspect that there is very little regret that that of Milosevic broke up. Should the new grouping be a union of equals then it sounds like a step forward. If, as Die Welt suggests, it becomes another vehicle for Serbia to try and achieve hegemony in the region then we will be back to 1990/91.
I can seen on here to how you guys are going mad 😡 soon as someone speaks about Albanians but we know it's not your fault because they told you to do so they tough you to hate so and now the hate for Albanians it is inside you.
An old man Avranites (Arbresh) from Athens told me a story he said that today we have a problem in Athens with people that come from Asia and they called them selfs Greek Everything we say or do like how strong and clever we are or for our ancestors they say it's us it's Greek and you Albanians are nothing etc... one day honestly to god no lies he said my son gone a took a real dog shit honestly dog shit and he was telling them look this is Albanians real mans shit big strong etc... all of them start shouting it's ours we do have same shit you are stilling from us and Now you see who really todays Greeks are.
I do feel sorry for many people in Greece,Serbia,Rumania,Macedonia,Montenegro that they really don't know who they really are and been in one country doesn't mean you're are from that country I can promise 100% that all you guys here have Albanians blood on your veins.
Start from your self and move next that's what they won't let you do just what they tell you to do and who they want you to be and you to believe at ...✌🏼
THEY WERENT TURKS BEFORE 1923 WHEN THEIR LANGUAGE WAS FIRST WRITTEN BY 2 RUSSIAN PROFESSORS.
That's nonsense.As i said before instead of citing propaganda open a decent history book to educate yourself.Take a trip to Turkey and vistit either the National Museum or the Ottoman Archives.Here is a link:
I will not consider your other numbers. Just this that i know very well.
The t o t a l of the population of Macedonia is 1,5mil.
How can they be 1,5mil just the Albanians?
Albanians are about 20%.
20% BOTH by census data and by political votes for the Albanian parties.
20% stable percentage for decades.
You know how much is 20% out of 1,5 million?
You have ANY idea about Macedonian population?
Because you can also say there are 15 million albanians in Macedonia at this point.
Macedonia
With 20% of population you are going with Wikipedia are you but I tell you that's wrong
I have met Albanians i Macedonia and they kids that are under 19 years of age that haven't been counting yet as Macedonia politics and you think how much Albanian population have grown in 19 years and pluse old Macedonian people are Albanians that been assimilated with force or economic favours at the time which are now wakening up as speaking that their family where Albanians
No Greek Byzantine historian has ever placed the Albanians in the Balkans.In fact Kontantinos Porfyroghenitos called them the Albanians a tribe of Caucasus.
During the Turkish domination there was no Albanian nation.The inhabitants of today’s Albania were distinguished by their faith The Orthodox ones were placed among the rest of Greeks ... Turko-Albanians used by the Ottoman side to slaughter the Greeks and to commit genocides.While Italy and Austria were striving for their own reasons to establish an Albanian state ...
NOW AND THEN YOU WRITE THINGS THAT ARE RATHER CLOSE TO THE TRUTH. BUT YOU FORGET THAT IN THE MIDDLE AGES TURKS WERE RUS COSSACKS AS WELL AS THE JANISSARI (IOANA SARJA) WERE RUS ORTHODOX BEFORE THEY WERE MASSACRED IN 1826. IN TANZIMAT PERIOD AFTER THAT THE KURDS AND NORTHERN CAUCASIANS PLAYED THE MAIN ROLE IN THE EMPIRE. MAYBE THE SHQIPTARS TOO - THIS I DON'T KNOW. THEY WERENT TURKS BEFORE 1923 WHEN THEIR LANGUAGE WAS FIRST WRITTEN BY 2 RUSSIAN PROFESSORS. OSMANI LANGUAGE WAS AS FAR FROM TURKISH AS GREEK FROM MAURI AND URDU LANGUAGES. BEFORE ERDOGAN TURKS STARTING FROM ATATURK ALWAYS HATED THE OTTOMANS.
ARMENIANS ARE A QUITE DIFFERENT STORY. DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ARMENINS IN FORMER USSR AND THE DIASPORA IN THE WEST VIEW THEIR HISTORY QUITE DIFFERENT. OUR ARMENIANS CAL IT HISTORY OF ARMENIA WHILE WESTERN ONES FOR 200 YEARS INSIST ON THE HISTORY OF THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE. THOSE ARE QUITE DIFFERENT THINGS YOU KNOW ...
leonida
"The only people in Greece with significant cultural similarities with Balkans, are northern Greeks.. the rest of Greece has some similarities with balkans but more similarities with western European like Southern Italy.."
T H I S
in one sentence
shows all you need to know about the delusional greek worldview.
Newsflash genius Greece I S the balkans.
and just listen to the desperate attempt to be "western europe" listen to it: more similarities with western European like Southern Italy!!!
WESTERN European like -> Southern Italy
ahahahhaahah ;)
Newsflsh 2# genius Southern Italy I S as the name suggests, southern Europe, not western.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
It's clear to anyone with a brain.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 22:22)
Anyone with a brain is able to see your dreams?! lol
Poor njegos... You might want to collect your thoughts and give it another try. Hopefully you'll make more sense next time - just don't write your dreams; they are pretty weird :)
before talking about ignorance learn the name of the geographical peninsula greece is located in.
# hint its BALKAN
Again desperate stretch of reality to be more "western" :)
Most of present day continental greece, 95% of it, was under TURKISH rule in the last 500 years, not Venice.
Some 5% - the islands were under Venetian rule - even that does not make them any less Balkanic.
nice desperation, its amusing. XD
"Southern Italy is a geographical term which is part of Western Europe"
ahhahaha here we go again.
greek desperate to be seen as "WESTERN"
- denies existence of southern europe. XD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe
Go on, your desperate twist of reality is amusing. XD
Greek historian: Greece was Albanian, even today a half of Greeks are Albanians ... you rather say that Alexander the Grate is Chinise then He is Albanian (The True history, 14 July 2017 21:58)
LEGENDS OF ALEXANDER APPEARED FIRST IN 15 CENTURY AFTER THE FALL OF THE BYZANTINE WHEN FORMER PATRIARCH OF THE EMPIRE BESSARION STARTED TO CALL FOR A CRUSADER WAR AGAINST THE GREAT HORDE TO WHICH MEHMET II BELONGED. BESSARION TOOK LIFESTORY OF MEHMET AND WITH LITTLE CHANGES PUBLISHED IT AS STORY OF SOME LEGENDARY ALEXANDER. SO HE CALLED TO RESTORE THE EMPIRE. IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED WELL ENOUGH WHILE ISKANDER UL-AHAD (ALEXANDER THE GREAT) WAS ONE OF THE 9 NAMES THAT WERE USED FOR MEHMET II AKA TAMERLANE. BEFORE 15 CENTURY NO MENTIONING OF ALEXANDER WAS REGISTERED ANYWHERE. HERE'S THE FULL LIST OF THE NAMES OF MEHMET II AKA TAMERLANE :
«Великий Эмир», Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган
ALSO GREEK BECAME ETHNICAL TERMIN IN 19 CENTURY. BEFORE THAT IT ONLY POINTED AT THE BELIEF OF A MAN AND NOTHING ELSE. SIMPLY BECAUSE THE FIRST NATIONS WERE FORMED IN 17 CENTURY ONLY AND IT WAS IN WESTERN EUROPE ONLY. OTHER NATIONS WERE FORMED IN 18-2O CENTURIES ONLY AND IT BROUGHT MANKIND TO MULTIPLE TRAGEDIES ...
Nope no! No more "bakan unions". Balkan countries desperately need to open to Europe and the west. Not even more closure within the Balkans. Nothing less than a full EU membership!
I think this will the best think for Albania 🇦🇱 and technically is creating the Union of Albanians as they always wanted in Albania are over 3 million Albanians in Kosovo over 2 million Albanians in Serbia over 2 million in sanxhak over 1 million Albanians in Macedonia over 1.5 million Albanians in Montenegro over 100k Albanians
Bosnia or all boshnjakis they always have gone with Albanians as they are brothers and now you all guess Who will be beneficial from Union in Balkan
I personally think that Serbia should apologise to kosovo and Bosnia for crimes the Committed and stop trying to still fight as believe me it will backfire on them as it always have
Vucic style of politics is stupid
And is like the wind sometimes with Russia sometimes with the west I hope both they fuc...k him.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
Never heard of the Vance-Owen plan? No? Or the Owen-Stoltenberg plan? No?What about the Washington agreement? No?
(Mate Boban, 15 July 2017 13:06)
Few people, if any, have heard any of the above force-feeding any union to anybody. But if you have, feel free to let the world know about what you have heard lol
That's not what you wrote initially, but anyway your new point above still does not make any sense since 6 of the 8 constitutive units of the SFRJ decided to break free. That's what they maintained, not me!
That’s what I wrote and it’s not my fault that your English doesn’t help you. Furthermore,you’re deluded if you think the so-called Republics had”decided” to break free-they didn’t “decide”- they just obeyed their foreign masters. Your delusions are hardly an escape from reality. It’s a way of understanding of how insane people living in a backwards world.
Can you show evidence that it was a certain "Lord Carington" who cast the votes for millions of people in Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia? Otherwise your mentioning of this "Lord Carrington" proves nothing to support any of your non-sense arguments.
Lord Peter Carrington was chosen as a chairman on the peace conference on Yugoslavia because of his expertise on foreign affairs.The voting that took place was completely irrelevant because the the big players-US-EU –had already decided for the dissolution of Yugoslavia.
Sure, but "a few others" would not prove much to support your argument, anyway, since it was millions of people in those 6 constitutive units of the SFRJ who voted to break free.
The voting wasn’t of any consequence at all,They did as they were told.If they were told to jump they would. Beggars can’t be choosers.
the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II
(Leonidas, 14 July 2017 12:13)
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II
(Leonidas, 14 July 2017 12:13)
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:39)
For an ustasha crackwh*re it's pretty hard to think clearly when high on drugs and a co*k shoved deep
(Mate Boban, 15 July 2017 13:06)
I wasn't aware those were the activities you were performing with our dear friend Leonidas when he/she came up with the fantasy that he/she wrote but, thanks to your post, it's now clear why Leonidas was not making any sense.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
My initial point was the dissolution of Yugoslavia was pre-determined by outside forces and not by a desire of the constituent republics to break free as you maintain.
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
That's not what you wrote initially, but anyway your new point above still does not make any sense since 6 of the 8 constitutive units of the SFRJ decided to break free. That's what they maintained, not me!
----------
After all they were living together for many years and it’s beyond any reason that they’ve decided to break up Yugoslavia
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Since you are a nobody and they did not have to give reason to you about their decisions.
----------
In order to support my argument i mentioned Lord Carington
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Can you show evidence that it was a certain "Lord Carington" who cast the votes for millions of people in Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia? Otherwise your mentioning of this "Lord Carington" proves nothing to support any of your non-sense arguments.
----------
and I am sure i could add few others.
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Sure, but "a few others" would not prove much to support your argument, anyway, since it was millions of people in those 6 constitutive units of the SFRJ who voted to break free.
Fine, As long as Albania and the Albanian parts of Kosovo are excluded! We don't need these terrorists and organ traffickers in the region. Send them back to their homeland of turkey.
Me trying to talk sense here is like going to devil and talk about Engels?
Greek historian: Greece was Albanian, even today a half of Greeks are Albanians
Maria Efthimiou, a professor of history at the University of Athens, awarded with honorary price by Greek Presidency is engaged in teaching in multiple fields, here she gives a lecture on Arvanites (Albanians) in Greece.
You go and see what the people in Universty of Athens learn you brainwashed Person or non educated person as usual Serbs are just by Qetnik learn of course you will hate anything about Albania you rather say that Alexander the Grate is Chinise then He is Albanian but again just who you are street history that's what you have learned.
I have Serbian Freind from Vojvodina and he says I can't wait unite we leave Serbia and Vojvodina will be independent as I am a shamed to tell anyone that I am from a country tha caused so many horrible crimes in so many countries in Europe
The regret in the Balkans is that Tito's Jugoslavija dissolved. I suspect that there is very little regret that that of Milosevic broke up. Should the new grouping be a union of equals then it sounds like a step forward. If, as Die Welt suggests, it becomes another vehicle for Serbia to try and achieve hegemony in the region then we will be back to 1990/91.
I can seen on here to how you guys are going mad 😡 soon as someone speaks about Albanians but we know it's not your fault because they told you to do so they tough you to hate so and now the hate for Albanians it is inside you.
An old man Avranites (Arbresh) from Athens told me a story he said that today we have a problem in Athens with people that come from Asia and they called them selfs Greek Everything we say or do like how strong and clever we are or for our ancestors they say it's us it's Greek and you Albanians are nothing etc... one day honestly to god no lies he said my son gone a took a real dog shit honestly dog shit and he was telling them look this is Albanians real mans shit big strong etc... all of them start shouting it's ours we do have same shit you are stilling from us and Now you see who really todays Greeks are.
I do feel sorry for many people in Greece,Serbia,Rumania,Macedonia,Montenegro that they really don't know who they really are and been in one country doesn't mean you're are from that country I can promise 100% that all you guys here have Albanians blood on your veins.
Start from your self and move next that's what they won't let you do just what they tell you to do and who they want you to be and you to believe at ...✌🏼
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
Never heard of the Vance-Owen plan? No? Or the Owen-Stoltenberg plan? No?What about the Washington agreement? No?
(Mate Boban, 15 July 2017 13:06)
Few people, if any, have heard any of the above force-feeding any union to anybody. But if you have, feel free to let the world know about what you have heard lol
Macedonia
With 20% of population you are going with Wikipedia are you but I tell you that's wrong
I have met Albanians i Macedonia and they kids that are under 19 years of age that haven't been counting yet as Macedonia politics and you think how much Albanian population have grown in 19 years and pluse old Macedonian people are Albanians that been assimilated with force or economic favours at the time which are now wakening up as speaking that their family where Albanians
the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II
(Leonidas, 14 July 2017 12:13)
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II
(Leonidas, 14 July 2017 12:13)
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:39)
For an ustasha crackwh*re it's pretty hard to think clearly when high on drugs and a co*k shoved deep
(Mate Boban, 15 July 2017 13:06)
I wasn't aware those were the activities you were performing with our dear friend Leonidas when he/she came up with the fantasy that he/she wrote but, thanks to your post, it's now clear why Leonidas was not making any sense.
I think this will the best think for Albania 🇦🇱 and technically is creating the Union of Albanians as they always wanted in Albania are over 3 million Albanians in Kosovo over 2 million Albanians in Serbia over 2 million in sanxhak over 1 million Albanians in Macedonia over 1.5 million Albanians in Montenegro over 100k Albanians
Bosnia or all boshnjakis they always have gone with Albanians as they are brothers and now you all guess Who will be beneficial from Union in Balkan
I personally think that Serbia should apologise to kosovo and Bosnia for crimes the Committed and stop trying to still fight as believe me it will backfire on them as it always have
Vucic style of politics is stupid
And is like the wind sometimes with Russia sometimes with the west I hope both they fuc...k him.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 02:03)
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
It's clear to anyone with a brain.
(njegos, 14 July 2017 22:22)
Anyone with a brain is able to see your dreams?! lol
Poor njegos... You might want to collect your thoughts and give it another try. Hopefully you'll make more sense next time - just don't write your dreams; they are pretty weird :)
No Greek Byzantine historian has ever placed the Albanians in the Balkans.In fact Kontantinos Porfyroghenitos called them the Albanians a tribe of Caucasus.
During the Turkish domination there was no Albanian nation.The inhabitants of today’s Albania were distinguished by their faith The Orthodox ones were placed among the rest of Greeks ... Turko-Albanians used by the Ottoman side to slaughter the Greeks and to commit genocides.While Italy and Austria were striving for their own reasons to establish an Albanian state ...
NOW AND THEN YOU WRITE THINGS THAT ARE RATHER CLOSE TO THE TRUTH. BUT YOU FORGET THAT IN THE MIDDLE AGES TURKS WERE RUS COSSACKS AS WELL AS THE JANISSARI (IOANA SARJA) WERE RUS ORTHODOX BEFORE THEY WERE MASSACRED IN 1826. IN TANZIMAT PERIOD AFTER THAT THE KURDS AND NORTHERN CAUCASIANS PLAYED THE MAIN ROLE IN THE EMPIRE. MAYBE THE SHQIPTARS TOO - THIS I DON'T KNOW. THEY WERENT TURKS BEFORE 1923 WHEN THEIR LANGUAGE WAS FIRST WRITTEN BY 2 RUSSIAN PROFESSORS. OSMANI LANGUAGE WAS AS FAR FROM TURKISH AS GREEK FROM MAURI AND URDU LANGUAGES. BEFORE ERDOGAN TURKS STARTING FROM ATATURK ALWAYS HATED THE OTTOMANS.
ARMENIANS ARE A QUITE DIFFERENT STORY. DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ARMENINS IN FORMER USSR AND THE DIASPORA IN THE WEST VIEW THEIR HISTORY QUITE DIFFERENT. OUR ARMENIANS CAL IT HISTORY OF ARMENIA WHILE WESTERN ONES FOR 200 YEARS INSIST ON THE HISTORY OF THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE. THOSE ARE QUITE DIFFERENT THINGS YOU KNOW ...
The EU doesn't want to let in these countries into their club, and see this bloc as a substitute for actual membership. Anyway who is not blind can see this. That being said, it is in Serbia's interest for this bloc to be formed as long as it is completely economical and not political.
Even if Serbia's southern province is treated as an equal member, Serbia will be the focal point of the entire project. Serbia would be central not just geographically, but will be the largest country to partake. It will in effect solidify Serbia's role as the leader in the region.
In fact, this bloc has the ability to do for Serbia what the EU did for Germany. The EU is really only good for Germany because it has a major trade surplus with the rest of the members. Same goes for Serbia. Other countries in the region know this and will do what they can do stop this project.
The true history
you lost all credibility when you stated there are 1,5 mil Albanians in Macedonia. you show you have zero idea what you are talking about.
and now you confirm, wikipedia is not a relevant source but "you going and talking to someone in Macedonia" is a relevant statistical source.
XD
at this point you can state there are 150 milion albanians in Macedonia, it would be just as crazy.
for the last time. Macedonian population are about 1,5 mil.
from the total of the population 20% are albanians. that is 300k.
the 20% albanian population is shown
# on national census every time in the last 30 years.
# on every political vote, albanian parties get about 20% of the vote, in the last 30 years, every time.
There is no lie there, and i have nothing against the Macedonian Albanians.
Just your information about 1,5 mil is totally wrong.
you can continue to believe whatever you want, you can believe there are 150 mil albanians there, just its not correct.
The EU/US made a complete mess of the former YU. They destroyed it, divided it, turned everyone against each other and now don't know what to do.
It's not any surprise that not only nations in the former YU, but Eastern Europe as a whole are looking elsewhere. Check -> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-12/china-s-new-silk-road-encroaches-on-u-s-turf-in-eastern-europe
Rather than destroying Yugoslavia, they should have taken it in as a whole and then resolve border issues within the EU, where borders remained open. Too late, time to let others in as the EU and Western alliance is falling apart.
The regret in the Balkans is that Tito's Jugoslavija dissolved. I suspect that there is very little regret that that of Milosevic broke up. Should the new grouping be a union of equals then it sounds like a step forward. If, as Die Welt suggests, it becomes another vehicle for Serbia to try and achieve hegemony in the region then we will be back to 1990/91.
(ned taylor, 13 July 2017 19:02)
This Tito nostalgia is very annoying. The difference between Slobo and Tito is that one tried to get rid of all non-serbs and the other one tried to get rid of all non-communist party members. Yugoslavia was already in deep trouble when Tito died and its only because Slobo was a massmurdering d***head that people somehow forgot how bad it was under communist rule. It only went from bad to worse.
Even if Serbia's southern province is treated as an equal member, Serbia will be the focal point of the entire project. Serbia would be central not just geographically, but will be the largest country to partake. It will in effect solidify Serbia's role as the leader in the region.
(Ari Gold, 13 July 2017 16:34)
Brilliant idea, Ari!
So Serbia is going to play the role of the kapo in a concentration camp, hated by both the prisoners and the Nazis. Did you intentionally type cast Serbia for that role.
before talking about ignorance learn the name of the geographical peninsula greece is located in.
# hint its BALKAN
Again desperate stretch of reality to be more "western" :)
Most of present day continental greece, 95% of it, was under TURKISH rule in the last 500 years, not Venice.
Some 5% - the islands were under Venetian rule - even that does not make them any less Balkanic.
nice desperation, its amusing. XD
"Southern Italy is a geographical term which is part of Western Europe"
ahhahaha here we go again.
greek desperate to be seen as "WESTERN"
- denies existence of southern europe. XD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe
Go on, your desperate twist of reality is amusing. XD
What a surprise that the EU wants to recreate Yugoslavia but not in the true sense. Brussels wants to return that region to its old ways where the new countries work as they did when they were mere republics because the financial burden of propping up actually financially failed states of Croatia, Slovenia, BiH, Montenegro and Macedonia is affecting their bottom line.
However, here is the problem. One people want no part of this half baked scheme and they are the Serbs LOL. Result is plan is dead as the DoDo bird.
Message to Brussels – you wanted the breakup of Yugoslavia now wear it.
Your weird view of the Greek Arvanitophones conveys either ignorance or distortion of History.To start with ,Arvanite migration into Greece happened around 1350 AD and therefore they could not maintain Albanian national conscience as such a thing emerged just in 1878 with the Prizren (Kosovo) League by all means fabricated by foreign powers and religious propaganda.No Greek Byzantine historian has ever placed the Albanians in the Balkans.In fact Kontantinos Porfyroghenitos called them the Albanians a tribe of Caucasus.
During the Turkish domination there was no Albanian nation.The inhabitants of today’s Albania were distinguished by their faith The Orthodox ones were placed among the rest of Greeks while those of Muslim faith-the overwhelming majority- felt themselves as Turks hence he term Turk-Albanian.If there is a need to mention any Albanian participation to the Greek Liberation Struggle then we should not refer to Arvanites but instead to Turko-Albanians used by the Ottoman side to slaughter the Greeks and to commit genocides.While Italy and Austria were striving for their own reasons to establish an Albanian state with a view to control the entry to the Adriatic Sea,the Turko-Albanians hoisted the Ottoman flag in Dyrrachion.Moreover during the Balkan wars the Muslims of Albania fought on the orders of the Ottoman Army.After 1908 a number of members to the Neo-Turk committee that plotted the pogroms against the Greeks and Armenians were Turk-Albanians
From icj1 the Serb Hater: "It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union, dear! It sounds like that's one of your usual dreams that occur in your mind during the night and then you describe here on the B92 forums in the morning :)"
It's clear to anyone with a brain. I've noticed that in many of the posts that you respond to, you have a great deal of difficulty understanding the points that are being conveyed. Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem, or perhaps you're just not very smart. In either case, it must be tough going through life as icj1, the Serb Hater (who is clearly intellectually challenged).
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.Even the sweeteners they used to throw around every now and then will become a thing of the past after Brexit.
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.
(Leonidas, 13 July 2017 14:07)
The EU/US made a complete mess of the former YU. They destroyed it
(Zoran, 13 July 2017 13:45)
Leonidas and Zoran should probably tell the EU the magic formula for forcing Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia to remain in a single country with Serbia against their will. Let's see who between Leonidas and Zoran will come up with the best formula lol
Why would you show Montenegro as a part of Serbia? Montenegro is in NATO, and will soon join in the EU. Much, much more successful country than Serbia. Montenegro, along with Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary is a winner in the Balkans. Serbia is a loser.
Nope no! No more "bakan unions". Balkan countries desperately need to open to Europe and the west. Not even more closure within the Balkans. Nothing less than a full EU membership!
leonida
"The only people in Greece with significant cultural similarities with Balkans, are northern Greeks.. the rest of Greece has some similarities with balkans but more similarities with western European like Southern Italy.."
T H I S
in one sentence
shows all you need to know about the delusional greek worldview.
Newsflash genius Greece I S the balkans.
and just listen to the desperate attempt to be "western europe" listen to it: more similarities with western European like Southern Italy!!!
WESTERN European like -> Southern Italy
ahahahhaahah ;)
Newsflsh 2# genius Southern Italy I S as the name suggests, southern Europe, not western.
I will not consider your other numbers. Just this that i know very well.
The t o t a l of the population of Macedonia is 1,5mil.
How can they be 1,5mil just the Albanians?
Albanians are about 20%.
20% BOTH by census data and by political votes for the Albanian parties.
20% stable percentage for decades.
You know how much is 20% out of 1,5 million?
You have ANY idea about Macedonian population?
Because you can also say there are 15 million albanians in Macedonia at this point.
Greek historian: Greece was Albanian, even today a half of Greeks are Albanians ... you rather say that Alexander the Grate is Chinise then He is Albanian (The True history, 14 July 2017 21:58)
LEGENDS OF ALEXANDER APPEARED FIRST IN 15 CENTURY AFTER THE FALL OF THE BYZANTINE WHEN FORMER PATRIARCH OF THE EMPIRE BESSARION STARTED TO CALL FOR A CRUSADER WAR AGAINST THE GREAT HORDE TO WHICH MEHMET II BELONGED. BESSARION TOOK LIFESTORY OF MEHMET AND WITH LITTLE CHANGES PUBLISHED IT AS STORY OF SOME LEGENDARY ALEXANDER. SO HE CALLED TO RESTORE THE EMPIRE. IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED WELL ENOUGH WHILE ISKANDER UL-AHAD (ALEXANDER THE GREAT) WAS ONE OF THE 9 NAMES THAT WERE USED FOR MEHMET II AKA TAMERLANE. BEFORE 15 CENTURY NO MENTIONING OF ALEXANDER WAS REGISTERED ANYWHERE. HERE'S THE FULL LIST OF THE NAMES OF MEHMET II AKA TAMERLANE :
«Великий Эмир», Бек, Мирза, Абу Мансур, Абу Фатих, Абу Гази, Сахиб-и Кирани, Хаган, Гете Стани, Султан, Искандар Ул Ахад, Гурган
ALSO GREEK BECAME ETHNICAL TERMIN IN 19 CENTURY. BEFORE THAT IT ONLY POINTED AT THE BELIEF OF A MAN AND NOTHING ELSE. SIMPLY BECAUSE THE FIRST NATIONS WERE FORMED IN 17 CENTURY ONLY AND IT WAS IN WESTERN EUROPE ONLY. OTHER NATIONS WERE FORMED IN 18-2O CENTURIES ONLY AND IT BROUGHT MANKIND TO MULTIPLE TRAGEDIES ...
My initial point was the dissolution of Yugoslavia was pre-determined by outside forces and not by a desire of the constituent republics to break free as you maintain.
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
That's not what you wrote initially, but anyway your new point above still does not make any sense since 6 of the 8 constitutive units of the SFRJ decided to break free. That's what they maintained, not me!
----------
After all they were living together for many years and it’s beyond any reason that they’ve decided to break up Yugoslavia
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Since you are a nobody and they did not have to give reason to you about their decisions.
----------
In order to support my argument i mentioned Lord Carington
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Can you show evidence that it was a certain "Lord Carington" who cast the votes for millions of people in Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia? Otherwise your mentioning of this "Lord Carington" proves nothing to support any of your non-sense arguments.
----------
and I am sure i could add few others.
(Leonidas, 16 July 2017 22:48)
Sure, but "a few others" would not prove much to support your argument, anyway, since it was millions of people in those 6 constitutive units of the SFRJ who voted to break free.
The only benefit of the dissolution of Yugoslavia is that Tito's Communism was broken and destroyed. Unfortunately, some of the Communist Apparatchik remnants are still around and living throughout the former Yugoslavia without trial or recourse. The true war criminal Tito lied in a Belgrade grave and still gets venerated by these Communists who now call themselves Nationalists. The British government and Winston Churchill can go to hell, they put the real Yugoslav government under house arrest while allowing the Tito's partisan criminals to destroy Yugoslavia.
You have to be kidding me??? Germany was one of the main culprets responsible for the breakup of Yugoslavia, one of the most diverse multi-cultural countries in Europe. Bo fourth Reich, PLEASE!!!!!
and just listen to the desperate attempt to be "western europe" listen to it: more similarities with western European like Southern Italy!!!
WESTERN European like -> Southern Italy
ahahahhaahah ;)
You remind me the usual ignorant crowd which start their postings with hahaha and finish with LOL.If you knew a bit of history you would've known that Southern Greece and the islands were under the Venetians for most of the last 600 years leading to independence.
Newsflsh 2# genius Southern Italy I S as the name suggests, southern Europe, not western.
Southern Italy is a geographical term which is part of Western Europe as the whole of Italy.Only morons cannot see this or people like you who are ashamed of their Turkish roots.Lets see what Turkish Ottoman historian Mehmet Inbasi had to say about Skopje under Ottomans:
“Having strategic significance as located in the borders, the city of Skopje was subjected to a systematic settlement of Turkic people after the conquest.[..]It is, however, obvious that Ottoman conquests were made to settle there, which were not just temporary adventurous or marauding movements.” “Such places as Plovdiv, Babadag, Elbasan, Sarajevo, Silistre and Skopje had been rearranged by the uc-begis in such a way to be new Turkish cities“.
Have a nice day.
From Blackeagle: "Albanian confederacy for albanians only. No slavs are welcome"
So you mean Croatians aren't welcome Blackeagle? I thought they were going to help you with your little army that Thaci keeps telling us about? Please clarify this for us please. LOL
The only people in Greece with significant cultural similarities with Balkans, are northern Greeks, representing less than 40% of the population. the rest of Greece has some similarities with balkans but more similarities with western European like Southern Italy.For example, the old architecture of Pelloponese and Central Greece and islands was similar to Italian, but the architecture of northern Greece is similar to Balkan and Turkish. Not to mention that Greeks were not part of Byzantium since 1204, when they were occupied by venetians, and of course were influenced by their culture especially in South.
With regards to your comment that the EU made a mistake in admitting Greece as a member i think the mistake was on the part of Greece because she left a military dictatorship to join a pseudo-political one.Prior to becoming a member Greece had a growing industry and relatively low debt levels ($26 billion in 1981).However,I do think the EU is in the process of playing its last tunes and when the music stops playing there will be a lot of upheaval in every single country.Watch this space.
"No thanks! We dont want to have anything to do with slavs again.
BlackEagle"
Why you want to enter EU than, there are a lot of Slavs already in Europe?
How are you cooperate in EU when all the region Slavs are in the union too, with this attitude?
THIS is precisely why EU is not for you while you have this attitude.
You fail to understand EU and its basic values.
Cheers.
From the true history: "...in Albania are over 3 million Albanians in Kosovo over 2 million Albanians in Serbia over 2 million in sanxhak over 1 million Albanians in Macedonia over 1.5 million Albanians in Montenegro..."
Put the crack pipe down pal. There are only 650,000 people in all of Montenegro and somehow you claim there are 1,500,000 Albanians there. You guys really do live in your own little world. Your history is anything but true.
The EU never intended to accept the Balkan countries as members.It's all about control and that's another reason why they've destroyed Yugoslavia-to control it.Even the sweeteners they used to throw around every now and then will become a thing of the past after Brexit.
(Leonidas, 13 July 2017 14:07)
Leonidas,
I know you won't like hearing this but, Greece is still part of the Balkans.
The only mistake the EU made was to admit Greece prematurely. Before gaining membership in the EU, as part of the Balkans Greece was top dog. Now as part of the EU, Greece is, unfortunately, runt of the litter.
Leonidas and Zoran should probably tell the EU the magic formula for forcing Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia to remain in a single country with Serbia against their will. Let's see who between Leonidas and Zoran will come up with the best formula lol
(icj1,
Only deluded people like a certain icj1 aka reader aka eu citizen think that the people of Bosnia,Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia and Serbia came to a collective agreement to get a violent divorce after living together peacefully since the end of world war II.Furthermore,only icj1 believes this violent divorce wasn't initiated by bigger players in EU & US.Since the subject needs a lot of space to explain it properly i would ask icj1 to read a statement made by Lord Peter Carrington former British Foreign minister and chairman of the Geneva-based conference on Yugoslavia who said the US&EU "made it sure there was going to be a conflict" in that region.
The EU and the NATO alliance aided and allowed the dissolution of Yugoslavia, yet on the other hand, they force-fed the union of Bosnia Hercegovina against the will of 2 of the 3 constituent peoples there. Like Yugoslavia, it won't last. And should the EU try something similar on a grander scale with the Balkans as this article suggests, it too will go up in flames...after much death and destruction.
Oh, really?! And when did such an agreement happen, dear? Or is that just one of your usual fantasies?!
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:39)
I understand. For an ustasha crackwh*re it's pretty hard to think clearly when high on drugs and a co*k shoved deep in your throat, so let me help you to understand.
By "collective agreement to get a violent divorce" he maybe means WAR. No?
Date: 25 June 1991 – 28 April 1992, Location: Yugoslavia, Outcome: Yugoslav state replaced by five new states.
It's not clear which two constituent people of Bosnia-Herzegovina were forced-fed any union..yadayadayada
(icj1, 14 July 2017 18:55)
Never heard of the Vance-Owen plan? No? Or the Owen-Stoltenberg plan? No?
What about the Washington agreement? No?
You're a lost cause..
In all honesty, EU membership will destroy the Balkans just like it did Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Portugal, italy etc. The only countries that benefit from the EU are western and Northern European nations as the whole system is set up in their favour. I know they've sold you this kumbaya, one big happy family dream but the sad reality is totally different. The EU is being flooded by migrants, debts, terrorists and god knows what else. The whole bloc is on life support and the faster countries leave and return to sovereignty and national borders the better it will be for the whole continent. We need to put an end to the totalitarian regime that is the EU and strip Brussels of its power over the continent. I'm not saying we should stop trading with eachother and visiting each other's nations, what we should be doing is scrapping the EU and the Euro and returning back the old style common market, where everyone can compete and prosper. After that the next logical step is deporting all migrants back home and shutting down all open borders and arresting the human traffickers masquerading as NGOs.
It's now clear why Leonidas was not making any sense.
(icj1,
Your comment is a textbook example of reductio ad absurdum.I'd say you must urgently attempt to learn more about the logic of argumentation if you think that is so.My initial point was the dissolution of Yugoslavia was pre-determined by outside forces and not by a desire of the constituent republics to break free as you maintain.After all they were living together for many years and it’s beyond any reason that they’ve decided to break up Yugoslavia by military confrontation. In order to support my argument i mentioned Lord Carington and I am sure i could add few others.You,on the other hand,are of the view that the republics were forced to live together and asked me to devise a plan how they can live together again.The implication of your statement is no outside forces were involved in the break up of Yugoslavia which is laughable of course. If it is still too difficult for you to understand what i am saying you should perhaps try a publication with a lower reading age.
Why would Serbs even think about this and knowing this now why can't Serbs see that the west is only trying to ruin them?
(Peggy, 17 July 2017 13:03)
Actually this mini Yugoslavia is pie in the sky stuff. The plan is to “re create” Yugoslavia in a fiscal sense not as a union. Slovenia and Croatia live off EU funds and with BiH, Macedonia, Montenegro all wanting to join the EU, money is a big issue. With the UK leaving the EU that is creating a huge funding hole.
So how does the EU solve its problems? Recreate Yugoslavia to a point where all the old republics trade and sell within the old boundaries. Now the EU realises that this is not palatable to Croats so they are sugar coating it for them, by saying “your one of us” but believe me they are being positioned to join this new Yugo. So if you have this why not put in Albania as well. Slovenia would join Serbia tomorrow if she could.
The flaws are that Serbia will only join if its financially to her advantage and that means she makes the big bucks. Secondly, accession talks have to be done at a fast pace otherwise Serbia just says bye bye EU.
The EU has no idea what it has taken on.
Hope the lunch and dinners were first class at this knees up.
THEY WERENT TURKS BEFORE 1923 WHEN THEIR LANGUAGE WAS FIRST WRITTEN BY 2 RUSSIAN PROFESSORS.
That's nonsense.As i said before instead of citing propaganda open a decent history book to educate yourself.Take a trip to Turkey and vistit either the National Museum or the Ottoman Archives.Here is a link:
How nice of them. They certainly take Serbs for absolute fools.
Croatia and Slovenia get to be independent and mostly pure but Serbs are now going to be asked to be in a union with Muslims, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. You would have to be totally crazy to think that this can ensure peace even if Belgrade was to have more say.
It's always the Serbs who have to share power in their country. Serbs from Montenegro, Bosnia and Serbia will be always having to look over their shoulder because Albanians especially will always try to take the power and if they can't start another Kosovo war.
Why would Serbs even think about this and knowing this now why can't Serbs see that the west is only trying to ruin them?
That's not what you wrote initially, but anyway your new point above still does not make any sense since 6 of the 8 constitutive units of the SFRJ decided to break free. That's what they maintained, not me!
That’s what I wrote and it’s not my fault that your English doesn’t help you. Furthermore,you’re deluded if you think the so-called Republics had”decided” to break free-they didn’t “decide”- they just obeyed their foreign masters. Your delusions are hardly an escape from reality. It’s a way of understanding of how insane people living in a backwards world.
Can you show evidence that it was a certain "Lord Carington" who cast the votes for millions of people in Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia? Otherwise your mentioning of this "Lord Carrington" proves nothing to support any of your non-sense arguments.
Lord Peter Carrington was chosen as a chairman on the peace conference on Yugoslavia because of his expertise on foreign affairs.The voting that took place was completely irrelevant because the the big players-US-EU –had already decided for the dissolution of Yugoslavia.
Sure, but "a few others" would not prove much to support your argument, anyway, since it was millions of people in those 6 constitutive units of the SFRJ who voted to break free.
The voting wasn’t of any consequence at all,They did as they were told.If they were told to jump they would. Beggars can’t be choosers.
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