I can seen on here to how you guys are going mad 😡 soon as someone speaks about Albanians but we know it's not your fault because they told you to do so they tough you to hate so and now the hate for Albanians it is inside you.
An old man Avranites (Arbresh) from Athens told me a story he said that today we have a problem in Athens with people that come from Asia and they called them selfs Greek Everything we say or do like how strong and clever we are or for our ancestors they say it's us it's Greek and you Albanians are nothing etc... one day honestly to god no lies he said my son gone a took a real dog shit honestly dog shit and he was telling them look this is Albanians real mans shit big strong etc... all of them start shouting it's ours we do have same shit you are stilling from us and Now you see who really todays Greeks are.
I do feel sorry for many people in Greece,Serbia,Rumania,Macedonia,Montenegro that they really don't know who they really are and been in one country doesn't mean you're are from that country I can promise 100% that all you guys here have Albanians blood on your veins.
Start from your self and move next that's what they won't let you do just what they tell you to do and who they want you to be and you to believe at ...✌🏼
Just a passing observation this must be the most commented thread ever
Serbs wouldnt care they are friends
its the Greek brigade
these posters who have hijacked this thread yet again need to ask themselves and look inside what really drives them to do it I mean to go nuts about the Macedonains
they always avoid the question
Equally, however, the so-called modern Greeks have no connection with the ancient Greeks,
DNA studies clearly supports this assertion.
(Moderate Serb,
No modern world historian will ever claim that modern people are closely related to ancient ones in terms of DNA.What’s important is the continuation of certain features (e.g. culture, language and occasionaly religion ), which ensures communities evolve through time in a historical sense. Modern Greece is descended from Medieval Greece, which is descended from Roman Greece, which is descended from Alexandrian/Hellenistic Greece, which is descended from Classical Greece, which is descended from Archaic Greece, Bronze-Age Greece, Mycenean Greece, and so on and so forth. There is a gradual progression and continuity.
it is a joke only if factual historic evidence are a joke to you.
im sorry you have hard time understanding this.
(Macedonia, 12 July 2017 14:35)
=======
I have read your "evidence" and am not impressed.
Wiki is the source which we all know is not reliable and here is a bit of what it said:
Identification[edit]
The definition of the ethnic Macedonian identity arose from the writings of Georgi Pulevski, who identified the existence of a distinct modern "Macedonian" language and nation.[19] Pulevski summarized the folk histories of the Macedonian people and concluded that the Macedonians were descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. This opinion was based on the claim that the ancient Macedonian language had Slavic components in it, and thus, the ancient Macedonians were Slavic, and that modern Macedonians were descendants of them.[20] However his Macedonian self-identification was ambiguous. Pulevski viewed Macedonian identity as being a regional phenomenon, similar to Herzegovinians and Thracians. He also sometimes described himself as a "Serbian patriot",[20] but he also viewed his ethnic designation as "Bulgarian from the village of Galičnik".[21][22][23] Pulevski's different identifications actually revealed the absence of a clear ethnic identity among part of the local Macedonian population at that time.
He couldn't even decide what he was let alone what others are.
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 20:10)
==================
I will ask you again.
How did Serbia oppress you?
For you information, Serbia DID NOT lose anything to Albanians. Serbia lost to NATO.
Welcome to the Balkans
were nobody acknowledges anyone
were everyone fights between themselves
were the past is the present
no wonder the Balkans is a dump
The Macedonian Language only the Greeks and Bulgar's moan about
there isnt a doubt in the World by anyone else
to the small brigade here get over it and build a bridge because the Macedonians dont have to prove a thing to anyone
I have a question of the two Greeks who post regularly post here and attack the Macedonians without end
what drives your own insecurity and tell us about your family history be honest
I dont see any real Macedonians comment here only Albanci pretending to be speaking on behalf of Macedonians, get lost and stop trying to spoil our relationship with Serbia a few stupid political move have strained it but its not the true feeling of the People. We embrace all our Orthodox brothers and sisters and need to become closer together not further apart as the west trys to integrate and wash us out with migrants to make us week!
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 20:10)
Nah, you just want to keep jumping from different sugar daddy's in hopes one can save you. So pathetic. I know the majority of FYROMians don't think like you, if they do then too bad for them. Serbia lost half its territory to Albanians? Are you high? That's quite literally what FYROM is facing right now, including losing most of its own capital city to Albanians. Poor guy, Serbia isn't to blame for your elite's poor choices!
“The claim on the part of the Slavic Republic to the name Macedonia is at best, a theft of [Greek] national property, heritage, and identity, and, at worst, a thinly veiled irredentist aspiration to the [Greek] territory the Slavs [by themselves] termed as 'Aegean Macedonia
(Leonidas, 11 July 2017 20:16)
Leonidas,
I agree that the Slavs who call themselves Macedonians have no connection with the ancient Macedonians. Equally, however, the so-called modern Greeks have no connection with the ancient Greeks,
DNA studies clearly supports this assertion.
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
О передаче на вечные времена Благороднымъ Славянамъ въ управление (владычество) какъ Сереного полушарiя Космоса именуемого БѣлСвѣтъ онъ же Мiръ онъ же Русь, такъ и территорiи северного полушарiя Земли Да’Арiя - она же Планета Земля
-Macedonia and Montenegro was created by Russia to master minded (Tito) only for one reason that Albania won't ask for Thessaloniki,Nis and Dubrovnik but you will see it will backfire on them we don't hate Serbs or greek as they are our brothers that their lives have been taken and have been told lies for generations and only to hate Albanians so you people don't look and find out who you really are.
what Greek did to Albania after 18th century
Steel all the history took their alphabet of them killed millions Avranitas (Arbresh) ethnic cleansing , assimilating people
-Bible says the god may be late but he won't never forget
✌🏼
(The True History,
YOUR VERSION OF THE PAST WAS SURPRISING EVEN FOR ME ... BUT IT'S GOOD THAT YOU'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE TALES WE ARE TOLD IN BOOKS, FILMS, SONGS, LEGENDS - ALL WITH ZERO PROOF. GO ON COLLEAGUE BUT SOMETIMES DEMAND DOCUMENTS. PARCHAMENT CAN SURVIVE THROUGH 350-400 YEARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND 150-200 YEARS IN EUROPE. SO I WONDER WHERE DID THEY TAKE THE EVIDENCE TO PROOVE ONE THEORY OR ANOTHER?
We are not serbian, never have been serbian and never will be serbian. Serbs oppressed us but that time is over. Bulgarians are our brothers, not Serbs, and that's why I voted for Zaev and not the serbo Russian shill Grujo
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 11:32)
===================
So when you are overrun by Albanians you can ask the Bulgarians to help you.
BTW, how did Serbs oppress you?
Stop saying we are "ancient Macedonians" ... you are making us look foolish.
Ari,
We are not serbian, never have been serbian and never will be serbian. Serbs oppressed us but that time is over. Bulgarians are our brothers, not Serbs, and that's why I voted for Zaev and not the serbo Russian shill Grujo
i like very much Ivica Dacic , i would voted him as president if i was a Serbian , he have class . Very very very good politican with class .
He should be president of Serbia or prime minister
Serbia under Boris Tadic or even more early Kostunica it had all salaries and pensions with a lot over Romania
Under Kostunica all worked very good
Can any Serb from here to give me the Serbian gouverment programm ? i am curious what programm has this woman .
Maybe i had judge Vucic wrong to early we have to see what it will happen in 2017 and 2018 after Vucic finised the consolidation and bring the account balance at only -1% of gdp + progress in debts . Croatia debts are 83% of gdp , Serbia debta 72% down from 76%
As a Macedonian, this is GREAT news. We need to distance ourselves from Serbia as much as possible, and get closer and closer with Bulgaria. Couldn't be happier! Thank you Zaev :)
(Tonche Makedonche, 11 July 2017 18:53)
I think based on current birthrates, you are only getting closer and closer to being absorbed by Greater Albania. That's actually the way Zaev is heading too. You probably could of avoided that fate too had you remained Serbian. Sad!
Hi guys I know that some of you won't like my comment but read with open minded as soon as you accept and look at it you will see who really your self is and what blood flows in you vains
Greece and Serbia is not a surprise at all are 2 most liars and identity thefts countries in the world why they want to be something that the God hasn't chosen them to have I don't know
-Serbia will disappear in years to come as never was and never will be a place of genuine people to live freely,Serbs are izbeglica (prisoners) from Russia as history says that they settled in Belgrade and had special protections by Russia.
-Vojvodina was never part of Serbia which will be split between Hungary,Rumania and Croatia from zemun Belgrade towards Nis people will find their true identity ARBRESH -SHQIPTAR people of eagle 🦅 and they will decide for them selfs.
-Macedonia and Montenegro was created by Russia to master minded (Tito) only for one reason that Albania won't ask for Thessaloniki,Nis and Dubrovnik but you will see it will backfire on them we don't hate Serbs or greek as they are our brothers that their lives have been taken and have been told lies for generations and only to hate Albanians so you people don't look and find out who you really are.
what Greek did to Albania after 18th century
Steel all the history took their alphabet of them killed millions Avranitas (Arbresh) ethnic cleansing , assimilating people
-Bible says the god may be late but he won't never forget
✌🏼
Ok, but what about your language . Are you going to admit it that is Bulgarian? Or at least it's not yours ? Or tell us who's language you are using ? Please 😊 Thanks
the day the Slavs of FYROM can read the Ancient Macedonian inscriptions is the day they can call themselves Macedonian. The official language of FYROM is Bulgarian. They call the dialect Macedonian which is incorrect. It is mutually intelligible with Bulgarian. Dialect does not constitute a language. If the official language of FYROM changes to Greek then they can be classified Hellenes. Once they embrace Hellenism with language they can have their history and make justifiably make their irrendentist claims. Until this time they are Slavs of FYROM anad they will stay Slavs of FYROM until they start speaking Greek - the language of the Ancient Macedonians.
The Greek Minister of vists Serbia and like clock work the same Serb bending to the Greek.
Does it suit Serbia not have relationships with its Neighbors for no reason at all. As for all the chatting here about whom and what the Maks are
how about we tell you keep on talking between yourselves
...from this viewpoint, the claim on the part of the Slavic Republic
to the name Macedonia and to its inhabitants' descent from the
ancient Macedonians represented at best a theft...
1. "from this viewpoint" - he is presenting the greek viewpoint, not necessarily his own.
2. "and to its inhabitants' descent from the ancient Macedonians" -
he is pointing out that present day Macedonians are Slavic. that is correct.
and they do not descent from Ancient Macedonians. that is also correct.
It is false to claim descendancy from ancient populations from 2500 years ago.
And present day Macedonians are Macedonians, different from Ancient Macedonians. Just like many present day modern people are different from their ancient history homonyms.(i.e. present day Neapolitans-Italian vs Ancient Neapolitans-Ancient Hellenic)
2400 years from Ancient Macedonians and about 1400 years of Slavic cultures in the region an authentic Macedonian identity, people and ethnicity had lots of time to develop. Along with the slavic Macedonian language, traditions, culture, and so on.
As it's noted by many international sources, from hundred years or more.
Here is one from the New York Times archives from 1903
"Mass meeting of Macedonians, 10 000 Macedonians.. Boris Sarafof, Yankof and other Macedonian leaders...
Dacic is FAT. Oink! Oink! Wanna have some chocolate my little fat serbian pig? How about loose some weight! Looking like that is disgusting! I bet he eats pizza slices during night in his bathroom. Serbs are fat and lazy. Not to mention unattractive as well...............
IF I START TO TELL THE FACTS OF THE FALSE GREEK HISTORY I AM AFRAID I WON'T BE ABLE TO STOP. SO DON'T TEASE ME PLEASE. GREECE IS THE LAST PLACE TO GO AFTER HISTORY I THINK.
BEFORE 18 CENTURY ALL OF THE SULTANS WERE OF RUS ORIGIN AND LIKE OPTHER GREAT KHANS WERE BURRIED AS PHARAOHS IN GEEZE VALLEY IN THE IMPERIAL CEMETERY. SULTAN AMURAD WAS ALSO BURRIED THERE BUT HE HAS MANY MEMORIES AND MEMORIALS IN RUSSIA. IT WAS A HODIAN TRADITION TO INSTALL CROSS AND CHURCH ON THE BATTLE FIELD. BUT THE PICTURES THAT I SAW IN YOUR LINK BELONG TO 18-20 CENTURY BECAUSE AMURAD WAS A PURE RUS ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN. TO SAY NOTHING THAT IN 14 CENTURY ISLAM WAS STILL PART OF OUR RUS CHURCH.
rote, Why do you even bother to comment, nobody reads your psycho babble. Or, is this your only form of income, you know, at the Troll institute in Leningrad. (Moderate Serb,
WE DO KNOW THAT THE SERBIAN HISTORY LIKE THOSE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS IS HANGING IN THE AIR. IT HAS LITTLE DOCUMENTAL BASIS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO HAVE THE HISTORY THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. PLEASE ENTER --- http://chronologia.org/ AND FIND THE POOREST SITE THERE. IT IS SERBIAN THOUGH IT EXISTS FOR YEARS NOW AND WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ONES ...
SERBS HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED BUT THEY FEAR TO TOUGH THEIR SAINT HISTORY WRITTEN FOR THEM BY THE OLDENBURGS IN 19 CENTURY ...
Yes he was Greek by belief, but was Slav by language and a Romey by birth like all other Rjurikovici. Greek version was revived in 19 century when for the first time in the history part of Balkans was called Greece.
(rote, 11 July 2017 16:31)
I am going to say it one more time. If you have a thirst for knowledge and history, go the museum in Vergina, Greece, the tome of Philip of Macedon, the relics , encryption are all Hellenic and Greek. There is not one ounce of archaeological proof that Greek Macedonians are "Slavs".http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museums/Archaeological_and_Byzantine/Arx_Bas_Tafoi_Berginas.html
While you are at it, why don't you visit the tomb of the Sultan Murad in Kosovo as well. https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g295385-d8727261-Reviews-Tomb_of_Sultan_Murad-Pristina.html
"Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
There has never been an "ethnos" of Macedonia since the Slavs settled in the area in the 6th century and therefore modern Slavs living in the area cannot identify with it.The Serbian academic you present as your source should've been aware of that.FYROM is only Macedonia in geographical terms of medieval/modern administrative designations (Roman, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire, etc), which for Greece are of little significance and mean nothing.I will finish with a quote from Jonathan M. Hall, “Classical Archaeology and the Ancient Historian”, University of Chicago, 2014, p.103-104:
“The claim on the part of the Slavic Republic to the name Macedonia is at best, a theft of [Greek] national property, heritage, and identity, and, at worst, a thinly veiled irredentist aspiration to the [Greek] territory the Slavs [by themselves] termed as 'Aegean Macedonia
Ancient history is irrelevant today.
What Alex was or was not is irrelevant today.
Present day Macedonians are different from Ancient history Macedonians.
In 2500 years cultures change and evolve, go figure.
Just like present day Neapolitans (Italians) are different from Ancient Neapolitans (Ancient Hellens).
That doesnt make present day Neapolitans any less Neapolitan.
Just as it does not make present day Macedonians any less Macedonian.
The sooner we understand and accept this the sooner we can focus on the future instead on the ancient history and have a prosperity in the region.
Ljubomir Frckovski you are quoting is referring to the nonsense of "direct ancient history links", aka "we are children of alex the great". I agree with him that is nonsense. Ancient history has nothing to do with the fact that this population has identified as Macedonians for hundreds of years. As UK Royal Journal notes in 1906 - Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian.
Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
You're a Bulgarian dialect speaking, with a Slavic name Slav, not Macedonian and your people settled on Paeonia not on Macedonia.
Stephen G. Miller, Historian, Prof Dr Berkeley University
[[[Who is referring to the self-declared "Republika Macedonija" which fabricated maps attempting to present PAEONIA as supposedly united region with Macedonia-Greece and to the banknotes this country circulated with the Greek city of Thessaloniki on them]]]; I wonder what we would conclude if a certain large island off the south-east coast of the United States started to call itself Florida, and emblazoned its currency with images of Disney World and distributed maps showing the Greater Florida..."
Ljubomir Frckovski, Leader of FYROMacedonia's Socialist Political Party, former Minister of Internal Affairs
One small group of (FYROM's) historians and political fraudsters managed to impose throughout the (FYROM's) media, a hysterical discourse about our identity, which created a great damage to the state. They turned Macedonia in their project, I would say into a country of ridicule, and everybody laughs at us..Fraudulent history concepts cannot help us. These people are trying to present us, as super-ancient Slavs, who never migrated, but always were here and used the Slavic language that we speak. These frauds and hallucinations varies from meaningless, to absurd, to totally absorb illusions."
In Russia we have lots of memories about Alexander with some of them in Moscow Kremlin ... some in Siberia ... the Far East ... central Asia. Those are stories of the Slavic history but not of the Greek one.
(rote, 11 July 2017 16:31)
rote,
Why do you even bother to comment, nobody reads your psycho babble. Or, is this your only form of income, you know, at the Troll institute in Leningrad.
As a Macedonian, this is GREAT news. We need to distance ourselves from Serbia as much as possible, and get closer and closer with Bulgaria. Couldn't be happier! Thank you Zaev :)
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
Plus, they are on the right side of history when it comes to the name Macedonia.(Ari Gold, 11 July 2017 15:45)
Around 170, out of 190 countries in the world recognize Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name. Including the biggest world powers like USA, Russia, China, India, UK.
I will leave you decide who is on the wrong side of history.
Bonus tip from the Royal British Geographical Journal from 1906:
"Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
You have a point there, but unfortunately it begins with Tito who created "Macedonski" republic , why was Greece quite then? Greece did not see a threat as it was a republic under the Federation of Yugoslavia, they were wrong. Tito used the name hoping to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Northern Greece in "his" version of Yugoslavia.
(Jugoslavija, 11 July 2017 16:26)
Good point but Tito died in 1980, Serbia can act and accept them as FRYM, Dacic is all talk no action not sure how he is still around.
If I was Greek FM I would say either change your stance or we change it on Kosovo.
Instead of blaming someone else just act you are foreign minister propose this change in parlament if needed but do it, or you can not as you need to ask papa EU?
(Bilbao, 11 July 2017 14:24)
You have a point there, but unfortunately it begins with Tito who created "Macedonski" republic , why was Greece quite then? Greece did not see a threat as it was a republic under the Federation of Yugoslavia, they were wrong. Tito used the name hoping to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Northern Greece in "his" version of Yugoslavia.
Macedonians were one of the 12 Israeli (Rus) tribes that seized the world during the Reconquista of 15 century. Before bringing Europe back to obeyance they concentrated on the Balkans where they had multiple conflicts among the hordes but when the war started all became united.
Most likely Mehmet II known in Rus as Mihail Tverskoy was Macedonian. At least the 53 day storm of Tsargrad started in Macedonia in 1453. For 28 years Mehmet became the head of the whole world so even the Great Horde obeyed him. But after he died in 1481 in Samarkand (not in Belgrade!) as Tamerlane Ivan III The Great (the obly Grozny in the Rus history) has returned the empire power back to Veliki Novgorod.
Legends about as if Greek Alexander were written by the former Patriach of the Byzantine Bessarion who called western hordes to rebel against the Great Horde and return Tsargrad. So he changed the lifestory of Mehmet II and exposed him as Alexander. In fact Iskander ul-Ahad (Alexander the Great) was one of the 9 names that Tamerlane/Mehmet II enjoyed in his life.
Yes he was Greek by belief, but was Slav by language and a Romey by birth like all other Rjurikovici. Greek version was revived in 19 century when for the first time in the history part of Balkans was called Greece.
In Russia we have lots of memories about Alexander with some of them in Moscow Kremlin ... some in Siberia ... the Far East ... central Asia. Those are stories of the Slavic history but not of the Greek one.
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
(Macedonia, 11 July 2017 14:41)
Over two years later, and they never did. It was just all talk. I visited FYROM and people were extremely friendly, even friendlier when they found out I was Serbian. But Serbia should revoke recognition of FYROM because Greece is a true friend that risked a lot to help Serbia in the 1990s. Plus, they are on the right side of history when it comes to the name Macedonia.
Kosova is Shqipëri. Quick something trashy about Albanians. You know you'll be doing it regardless, on your own. You'll come up with provokacijas in your sleep. No more Jews, just Shqiptarë.
You ask other countries to change position on Kosovo why can not Serbia change recognition of Macedonia to FRYM?
Instead of blaming someone else just act you are foreign minister propose this change in parlament if needed but do it, or you can not as you need to ask papa EU?
i will leave this b92 article here.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2015&mm=07&dd=15&nav_id=94769
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
Hi guys I know that some of you won't like my comment but read with open minded as soon as you accept and look at it you will see who really your self is and what blood flows in you vains
Greece and Serbia is not a surprise at all are 2 most liars and identity thefts countries in the world why they want to be something that the God hasn't chosen them to have I don't know
-Serbia will disappear in years to come as never was and never will be a place of genuine people to live freely,Serbs are izbeglica (prisoners) from Russia as history says that they settled in Belgrade and had special protections by Russia.
-Vojvodina was never part of Serbia which will be split between Hungary,Rumania and Croatia from zemun Belgrade towards Nis people will find their true identity ARBRESH -SHQIPTAR people of eagle 🦅 and they will decide for them selfs.
-Macedonia and Montenegro was created by Russia to master minded (Tito) only for one reason that Albania won't ask for Thessaloniki,Nis and Dubrovnik but you will see it will backfire on them we don't hate Serbs or greek as they are our brothers that their lives have been taken and have been told lies for generations and only to hate Albanians so you people don't look and find out who you really are.
what Greek did to Albania after 18th century
Steel all the history took their alphabet of them killed millions Avranitas (Arbresh) ethnic cleansing , assimilating people
-Bible says the god may be late but he won't never forget
✌🏼
You ask other countries to change position on Kosovo why can not Serbia change recognition of Macedonia to FRYM?
Instead of blaming someone else just act you are foreign minister propose this change in parlament if needed but do it, or you can not as you need to ask papa EU?
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
(Macedonia, 11 July 2017 14:41)
Over two years later, and they never did. It was just all talk. I visited FYROM and people were extremely friendly, even friendlier when they found out I was Serbian. But Serbia should revoke recognition of FYROM because Greece is a true friend that risked a lot to help Serbia in the 1990s. Plus, they are on the right side of history when it comes to the name Macedonia.
In Russia we have lots of memories about Alexander with some of them in Moscow Kremlin ... some in Siberia ... the Far East ... central Asia. Those are stories of the Slavic history but not of the Greek one.
(rote, 11 July 2017 16:31)
rote,
Why do you even bother to comment, nobody reads your psycho babble. Or, is this your only form of income, you know, at the Troll institute in Leningrad.
As a Macedonian, this is GREAT news. We need to distance ourselves from Serbia as much as possible, and get closer and closer with Bulgaria. Couldn't be happier! Thank you Zaev :)
Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
You're a Bulgarian dialect speaking, with a Slavic name Slav, not Macedonian and your people settled on Paeonia not on Macedonia.
Stephen G. Miller, Historian, Prof Dr Berkeley University
[[[Who is referring to the self-declared "Republika Macedonija" which fabricated maps attempting to present PAEONIA as supposedly united region with Macedonia-Greece and to the banknotes this country circulated with the Greek city of Thessaloniki on them]]]; I wonder what we would conclude if a certain large island off the south-east coast of the United States started to call itself Florida, and emblazoned its currency with images of Disney World and distributed maps showing the Greater Florida..."
Ljubomir Frckovski, Leader of FYROMacedonia's Socialist Political Party, former Minister of Internal Affairs
One small group of (FYROM's) historians and political fraudsters managed to impose throughout the (FYROM's) media, a hysterical discourse about our identity, which created a great damage to the state. They turned Macedonia in their project, I would say into a country of ridicule, and everybody laughs at us..Fraudulent history concepts cannot help us. These people are trying to present us, as super-ancient Slavs, who never migrated, but always were here and used the Slavic language that we speak. These frauds and hallucinations varies from meaningless, to absurd, to totally absorb illusions."
"Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
There has never been an "ethnos" of Macedonia since the Slavs settled in the area in the 6th century and therefore modern Slavs living in the area cannot identify with it.The Serbian academic you present as your source should've been aware of that.FYROM is only Macedonia in geographical terms of medieval/modern administrative designations (Roman, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire, etc), which for Greece are of little significance and mean nothing.I will finish with a quote from Jonathan M. Hall, “Classical Archaeology and the Ancient Historian”, University of Chicago, 2014, p.103-104:
“The claim on the part of the Slavic Republic to the name Macedonia is at best, a theft of [Greek] national property, heritage, and identity, and, at worst, a thinly veiled irredentist aspiration to the [Greek] territory the Slavs [by themselves] termed as 'Aegean Macedonia
Yes he was Greek by belief, but was Slav by language and a Romey by birth like all other Rjurikovici. Greek version was revived in 19 century when for the first time in the history part of Balkans was called Greece.
(rote, 11 July 2017 16:31)
I am going to say it one more time. If you have a thirst for knowledge and history, go the museum in Vergina, Greece, the tome of Philip of Macedon, the relics , encryption are all Hellenic and Greek. There is not one ounce of archaeological proof that Greek Macedonians are "Slavs".http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museums/Archaeological_and_Byzantine/Arx_Bas_Tafoi_Berginas.html
While you are at it, why don't you visit the tomb of the Sultan Murad in Kosovo as well. https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g295385-d8727261-Reviews-Tomb_of_Sultan_Murad-Pristina.html
the day the Slavs of FYROM can read the Ancient Macedonian inscriptions is the day they can call themselves Macedonian. The official language of FYROM is Bulgarian. They call the dialect Macedonian which is incorrect. It is mutually intelligible with Bulgarian. Dialect does not constitute a language. If the official language of FYROM changes to Greek then they can be classified Hellenes. Once they embrace Hellenism with language they can have their history and make justifiably make their irrendentist claims. Until this time they are Slavs of FYROM anad they will stay Slavs of FYROM until they start speaking Greek - the language of the Ancient Macedonians.
i will leave this b92 article here.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2015&mm=07&dd=15&nav_id=94769
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
Dacic is FAT. Oink! Oink! Wanna have some chocolate my little fat serbian pig? How about loose some weight! Looking like that is disgusting! I bet he eats pizza slices during night in his bathroom. Serbs are fat and lazy. Not to mention unattractive as well...............
As a Macedonian, this is GREAT news. We need to distance ourselves from Serbia as much as possible, and get closer and closer with Bulgaria. Couldn't be happier! Thank you Zaev :)
(Tonche Makedonche, 11 July 2017 18:53)
I think based on current birthrates, you are only getting closer and closer to being absorbed by Greater Albania. That's actually the way Zaev is heading too. You probably could of avoided that fate too had you remained Serbian. Sad!
Kosova is Shqipëri. Quick something trashy about Albanians. You know you'll be doing it regardless, on your own. You'll come up with provokacijas in your sleep. No more Jews, just Shqiptarë.
Instead of blaming someone else just act you are foreign minister propose this change in parlament if needed but do it, or you can not as you need to ask papa EU?
(Bilbao, 11 July 2017 14:24)
You have a point there, but unfortunately it begins with Tito who created "Macedonski" republic , why was Greece quite then? Greece did not see a threat as it was a republic under the Federation of Yugoslavia, they were wrong. Tito used the name hoping to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Northern Greece in "his" version of Yugoslavia.
Ok, but what about your language . Are you going to admit it that is Bulgarian? Or at least it's not yours ? Or tell us who's language you are using ? Please 😊 Thanks
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
You have a point there, but unfortunately it begins with Tito who created "Macedonski" republic , why was Greece quite then? Greece did not see a threat as it was a republic under the Federation of Yugoslavia, they were wrong. Tito used the name hoping to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Northern Greece in "his" version of Yugoslavia.
(Jugoslavija, 11 July 2017 16:26)
Good point but Tito died in 1980, Serbia can act and accept them as FRYM, Dacic is all talk no action not sure how he is still around.
If I was Greek FM I would say either change your stance or we change it on Kosovo.
Equally, however, the so-called modern Greeks have no connection with the ancient Greeks,
DNA studies clearly supports this assertion.
(Moderate Serb,
No modern world historian will ever claim that modern people are closely related to ancient ones in terms of DNA.What’s important is the continuation of certain features (e.g. culture, language and occasionaly religion ), which ensures communities evolve through time in a historical sense. Modern Greece is descended from Medieval Greece, which is descended from Roman Greece, which is descended from Alexandrian/Hellenistic Greece, which is descended from Classical Greece, which is descended from Archaic Greece, Bronze-Age Greece, Mycenean Greece, and so on and so forth. There is a gradual progression and continuity.
Plus, they are on the right side of history when it comes to the name Macedonia.(Ari Gold, 11 July 2017 15:45)
Around 170, out of 190 countries in the world recognize Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name. Including the biggest world powers like USA, Russia, China, India, UK.
I will leave you decide who is on the wrong side of history.
Bonus tip from the Royal British Geographical Journal from 1906:
"Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
Stop saying we are "ancient Macedonians" ... you are making us look foolish.
Ari,
We are not serbian, never have been serbian and never will be serbian. Serbs oppressed us but that time is over. Bulgarians are our brothers, not Serbs, and that's why I voted for Zaev and not the serbo Russian shill Grujo
We are not serbian, never have been serbian and never will be serbian. Serbs oppressed us but that time is over. Bulgarians are our brothers, not Serbs, and that's why I voted for Zaev and not the serbo Russian shill Grujo
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 11:32)
===================
So when you are overrun by Albanians you can ask the Bulgarians to help you.
BTW, how did Serbs oppress you?
I dont see any real Macedonians comment here only Albanci pretending to be speaking on behalf of Macedonians, get lost and stop trying to spoil our relationship with Serbia a few stupid political move have strained it but its not the true feeling of the People. We embrace all our Orthodox brothers and sisters and need to become closer together not further apart as the west trys to integrate and wash us out with migrants to make us week!
it is a joke only if factual historic evidence are a joke to you.
im sorry you have hard time understanding this.
(Macedonia, 12 July 2017 14:35)
=======
I have read your "evidence" and am not impressed.
Wiki is the source which we all know is not reliable and here is a bit of what it said:
Identification[edit]
The definition of the ethnic Macedonian identity arose from the writings of Georgi Pulevski, who identified the existence of a distinct modern "Macedonian" language and nation.[19] Pulevski summarized the folk histories of the Macedonian people and concluded that the Macedonians were descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. This opinion was based on the claim that the ancient Macedonian language had Slavic components in it, and thus, the ancient Macedonians were Slavic, and that modern Macedonians were descendants of them.[20] However his Macedonian self-identification was ambiguous. Pulevski viewed Macedonian identity as being a regional phenomenon, similar to Herzegovinians and Thracians. He also sometimes described himself as a "Serbian patriot",[20] but he also viewed his ethnic designation as "Bulgarian from the village of Galičnik".[21][22][23] Pulevski's different identifications actually revealed the absence of a clear ethnic identity among part of the local Macedonian population at that time.
He couldn't even decide what he was let alone what others are.
Ljubomir Frckovski you are quoting is referring to the nonsense of "direct ancient history links", aka "we are children of alex the great". I agree with him that is nonsense. Ancient history has nothing to do with the fact that this population has identified as Macedonians for hundreds of years. As UK Royal Journal notes in 1906 - Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian.
Ancient history is irrelevant today.
What Alex was or was not is irrelevant today.
Present day Macedonians are different from Ancient history Macedonians.
In 2500 years cultures change and evolve, go figure.
Just like present day Neapolitans (Italians) are different from Ancient Neapolitans (Ancient Hellens).
That doesnt make present day Neapolitans any less Neapolitan.
Just as it does not make present day Macedonians any less Macedonian.
The sooner we understand and accept this the sooner we can focus on the future instead on the ancient history and have a prosperity in the region.
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 20:10)
==================
I will ask you again.
How did Serbia oppress you?
For you information, Serbia DID NOT lose anything to Albanians. Serbia lost to NATO.
The Greek Minister of vists Serbia and like clock work the same Serb bending to the Greek.
Does it suit Serbia not have relationships with its Neighbors for no reason at all. As for all the chatting here about whom and what the Maks are
how about we tell you keep on talking between yourselves
-Macedonia and Montenegro was created by Russia to master minded (Tito) only for one reason that Albania won't ask for Thessaloniki,Nis and Dubrovnik but you will see it will backfire on them we don't hate Serbs or greek as they are our brothers that their lives have been taken and have been told lies for generations and only to hate Albanians so you people don't look and find out who you really are.
what Greek did to Albania after 18th century
Steel all the history took their alphabet of them killed millions Avranitas (Arbresh) ethnic cleansing , assimilating people
-Bible says the god may be late but he won't never forget
✌🏼
(The True History,
YOUR VERSION OF THE PAST WAS SURPRISING EVEN FOR ME ... BUT IT'S GOOD THAT YOU'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE TALES WE ARE TOLD IN BOOKS, FILMS, SONGS, LEGENDS - ALL WITH ZERO PROOF. GO ON COLLEAGUE BUT SOMETIMES DEMAND DOCUMENTS. PARCHAMENT CAN SURVIVE THROUGH 350-400 YEARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND 150-200 YEARS IN EUROPE. SO I WONDER WHERE DID THEY TAKE THE EVIDENCE TO PROOVE ONE THEORY OR ANOTHER?
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 20:10)
Nah, you just want to keep jumping from different sugar daddy's in hopes one can save you. So pathetic. I know the majority of FYROMians don't think like you, if they do then too bad for them. Serbia lost half its territory to Albanians? Are you high? That's quite literally what FYROM is facing right now, including losing most of its own capital city to Albanians. Poor guy, Serbia isn't to blame for your elite's poor choices!
Welcome to the Balkans
were nobody acknowledges anyone
were everyone fights between themselves
were the past is the present
no wonder the Balkans is a dump
Macedonians were one of the 12 Israeli (Rus) tribes that seized the world during the Reconquista of 15 century. Before bringing Europe back to obeyance they concentrated on the Balkans where they had multiple conflicts among the hordes but when the war started all became united.
Most likely Mehmet II known in Rus as Mihail Tverskoy was Macedonian. At least the 53 day storm of Tsargrad started in Macedonia in 1453. For 28 years Mehmet became the head of the whole world so even the Great Horde obeyed him. But after he died in 1481 in Samarkand (not in Belgrade!) as Tamerlane Ivan III The Great (the obly Grozny in the Rus history) has returned the empire power back to Veliki Novgorod.
Legends about as if Greek Alexander were written by the former Patriach of the Byzantine Bessarion who called western hordes to rebel against the Great Horde and return Tsargrad. So he changed the lifestory of Mehmet II and exposed him as Alexander. In fact Iskander ul-Ahad (Alexander the Great) was one of the 9 names that Tamerlane/Mehmet II enjoyed in his life.
Yes he was Greek by belief, but was Slav by language and a Romey by birth like all other Rjurikovici. Greek version was revived in 19 century when for the first time in the history part of Balkans was called Greece.
In Russia we have lots of memories about Alexander with some of them in Moscow Kremlin ... some in Siberia ... the Far East ... central Asia. Those are stories of the Slavic history but not of the Greek one.
IF I START TO TELL THE FACTS OF THE FALSE GREEK HISTORY I AM AFRAID I WON'T BE ABLE TO STOP. SO DON'T TEASE ME PLEASE. GREECE IS THE LAST PLACE TO GO AFTER HISTORY I THINK.
BEFORE 18 CENTURY ALL OF THE SULTANS WERE OF RUS ORIGIN AND LIKE OPTHER GREAT KHANS WERE BURRIED AS PHARAOHS IN GEEZE VALLEY IN THE IMPERIAL CEMETERY. SULTAN AMURAD WAS ALSO BURRIED THERE BUT HE HAS MANY MEMORIES AND MEMORIALS IN RUSSIA. IT WAS A HODIAN TRADITION TO INSTALL CROSS AND CHURCH ON THE BATTLE FIELD. BUT THE PICTURES THAT I SAW IN YOUR LINK BELONG TO 18-20 CENTURY BECAUSE AMURAD WAS A PURE RUS ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN. TO SAY NOTHING THAT IN 14 CENTURY ISLAM WAS STILL PART OF OUR RUS CHURCH.
...from this viewpoint, the claim on the part of the Slavic Republic
to the name Macedonia and to its inhabitants' descent from the
ancient Macedonians represented at best a theft...
1. "from this viewpoint" - he is presenting the greek viewpoint, not necessarily his own.
2. "and to its inhabitants' descent from the ancient Macedonians" -
he is pointing out that present day Macedonians are Slavic. that is correct.
and they do not descent from Ancient Macedonians. that is also correct.
It is false to claim descendancy from ancient populations from 2500 years ago.
And present day Macedonians are Macedonians, different from Ancient Macedonians. Just like many present day modern people are different from their ancient history homonyms.(i.e. present day Neapolitans-Italian vs Ancient Neapolitans-Ancient Hellenic)
2400 years from Ancient Macedonians and about 1400 years of Slavic cultures in the region an authentic Macedonian identity, people and ethnicity had lots of time to develop. Along with the slavic Macedonian language, traditions, culture, and so on.
As it's noted by many international sources, from hundred years or more.
Here is one from the New York Times archives from 1903
"Mass meeting of Macedonians, 10 000 Macedonians.. Boris Sarafof, Yankof and other Macedonian leaders...
“The claim on the part of the Slavic Republic to the name Macedonia is at best, a theft of [Greek] national property, heritage, and identity, and, at worst, a thinly veiled irredentist aspiration to the [Greek] territory the Slavs [by themselves] termed as 'Aegean Macedonia
(Leonidas, 11 July 2017 20:16)
Leonidas,
I agree that the Slavs who call themselves Macedonians have no connection with the ancient Macedonians. Equally, however, the so-called modern Greeks have no connection with the ancient Greeks,
DNA studies clearly supports this assertion.
The Macedonian Language only the Greeks and Bulgar's moan about
there isnt a doubt in the World by anyone else
to the small brigade here get over it and build a bridge because the Macedonians dont have to prove a thing to anyone
rote, Why do you even bother to comment, nobody reads your psycho babble. Or, is this your only form of income, you know, at the Troll institute in Leningrad. (Moderate Serb,
WE DO KNOW THAT THE SERBIAN HISTORY LIKE THOSE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS IS HANGING IN THE AIR. IT HAS LITTLE DOCUMENTAL BASIS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO HAVE THE HISTORY THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. PLEASE ENTER --- http://chronologia.org/ AND FIND THE POOREST SITE THERE. IT IS SERBIAN THOUGH IT EXISTS FOR YEARS NOW AND WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ONES ...
SERBS HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED BUT THEY FEAR TO TOUGH THEIR SAINT HISTORY WRITTEN FOR THEM BY THE OLDENBURGS IN 19 CENTURY ...
О передаче на вечные времена Благороднымъ Славянамъ въ управление (владычество) какъ Сереного полушарiя Космоса именуемого БѣлСвѣтъ онъ же Мiръ онъ же Русь, такъ и территорiи северного полушарiя Земли Да’Арiя - она же Планета Земля
I have a question of the two Greeks who post regularly post here and attack the Macedonians without end
what drives your own insecurity and tell us about your family history be honest
I can seen on here to how you guys are going mad 😡 soon as someone speaks about Albanians but we know it's not your fault because they told you to do so they tough you to hate so and now the hate for Albanians it is inside you.
An old man Avranites (Arbresh) from Athens told me a story he said that today we have a problem in Athens with people that come from Asia and they called them selfs Greek Everything we say or do like how strong and clever we are or for our ancestors they say it's us it's Greek and you Albanians are nothing etc... one day honestly to god no lies he said my son gone a took a real dog shit honestly dog shit and he was telling them look this is Albanians real mans shit big strong etc... all of them start shouting it's ours we do have same shit you are stilling from us and Now you see who really todays Greeks are.
I do feel sorry for many people in Greece,Serbia,Rumania,Macedonia,Montenegro that they really don't know who they really are and been in one country doesn't mean you're are from that country I can promise 100% that all you guys here have Albanians blood on your veins.
Start from your self and move next that's what they won't let you do just what they tell you to do and who they want you to be and you to believe at ...✌🏼
i like very much Ivica Dacic , i would voted him as president if i was a Serbian , he have class . Very very very good politican with class .
He should be president of Serbia or prime minister
Serbia under Boris Tadic or even more early Kostunica it had all salaries and pensions with a lot over Romania
Under Kostunica all worked very good
Can any Serb from here to give me the Serbian gouverment programm ? i am curious what programm has this woman .
Maybe i had judge Vucic wrong to early we have to see what it will happen in 2017 and 2018 after Vucic finised the consolidation and bring the account balance at only -1% of gdp + progress in debts . Croatia debts are 83% of gdp , Serbia debta 72% down from 76%
Just a passing observation this must be the most commented thread ever
Serbs wouldnt care they are friends
its the Greek brigade
these posters who have hijacked this thread yet again need to ask themselves and look inside what really drives them to do it I mean to go nuts about the Macedonains
they always avoid the question
Kosova is Shqipëri. Quick something trashy about Albanians. You know you'll be doing it regardless, on your own. You'll come up with provokacijas in your sleep. No more Jews, just Shqiptarë.
Dacic is FAT. Oink! Oink! Wanna have some chocolate my little fat serbian pig? How about loose some weight! Looking like that is disgusting! I bet he eats pizza slices during night in his bathroom. Serbs are fat and lazy. Not to mention unattractive as well...............
Hi guys I know that some of you won't like my comment but read with open minded as soon as you accept and look at it you will see who really your self is and what blood flows in you vains
Greece and Serbia is not a surprise at all are 2 most liars and identity thefts countries in the world why they want to be something that the God hasn't chosen them to have I don't know
-Serbia will disappear in years to come as never was and never will be a place of genuine people to live freely,Serbs are izbeglica (prisoners) from Russia as history says that they settled in Belgrade and had special protections by Russia.
-Vojvodina was never part of Serbia which will be split between Hungary,Rumania and Croatia from zemun Belgrade towards Nis people will find their true identity ARBRESH -SHQIPTAR people of eagle 🦅 and they will decide for them selfs.
-Macedonia and Montenegro was created by Russia to master minded (Tito) only for one reason that Albania won't ask for Thessaloniki,Nis and Dubrovnik but you will see it will backfire on them we don't hate Serbs or greek as they are our brothers that their lives have been taken and have been told lies for generations and only to hate Albanians so you people don't look and find out who you really are.
what Greek did to Albania after 18th century
Steel all the history took their alphabet of them killed millions Avranitas (Arbresh) ethnic cleansing , assimilating people
-Bible says the god may be late but he won't never forget
✌🏼
Macedonians were one of the 12 Israeli (Rus) tribes that seized the world during the Reconquista of 15 century. Before bringing Europe back to obeyance they concentrated on the Balkans where they had multiple conflicts among the hordes but when the war started all became united.
Most likely Mehmet II known in Rus as Mihail Tverskoy was Macedonian. At least the 53 day storm of Tsargrad started in Macedonia in 1453. For 28 years Mehmet became the head of the whole world so even the Great Horde obeyed him. But after he died in 1481 in Samarkand (not in Belgrade!) as Tamerlane Ivan III The Great (the obly Grozny in the Rus history) has returned the empire power back to Veliki Novgorod.
Legends about as if Greek Alexander were written by the former Patriach of the Byzantine Bessarion who called western hordes to rebel against the Great Horde and return Tsargrad. So he changed the lifestory of Mehmet II and exposed him as Alexander. In fact Iskander ul-Ahad (Alexander the Great) was one of the 9 names that Tamerlane/Mehmet II enjoyed in his life.
Yes he was Greek by belief, but was Slav by language and a Romey by birth like all other Rjurikovici. Greek version was revived in 19 century when for the first time in the history part of Balkans was called Greece.
In Russia we have lots of memories about Alexander with some of them in Moscow Kremlin ... some in Siberia ... the Far East ... central Asia. Those are stories of the Slavic history but not of the Greek one.
Plus, they are on the right side of history when it comes to the name Macedonia.(Ari Gold, 11 July 2017 15:45)
Around 170, out of 190 countries in the world recognize Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name. Including the biggest world powers like USA, Russia, China, India, UK.
I will leave you decide who is on the wrong side of history.
Bonus tip from the Royal British Geographical Journal from 1906:
"Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
As a Macedonian, this is GREAT news. We need to distance ourselves from Serbia as much as possible, and get closer and closer with Bulgaria. Couldn't be happier! Thank you Zaev :)
-Macedonia and Montenegro was created by Russia to master minded (Tito) only for one reason that Albania won't ask for Thessaloniki,Nis and Dubrovnik but you will see it will backfire on them we don't hate Serbs or greek as they are our brothers that their lives have been taken and have been told lies for generations and only to hate Albanians so you people don't look and find out who you really are.
what Greek did to Albania after 18th century
Steel all the history took their alphabet of them killed millions Avranitas (Arbresh) ethnic cleansing , assimilating people
-Bible says the god may be late but he won't never forget
✌🏼
(The True History,
YOUR VERSION OF THE PAST WAS SURPRISING EVEN FOR ME ... BUT IT'S GOOD THAT YOU'RE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE TALES WE ARE TOLD IN BOOKS, FILMS, SONGS, LEGENDS - ALL WITH ZERO PROOF. GO ON COLLEAGUE BUT SOMETIMES DEMAND DOCUMENTS. PARCHAMENT CAN SURVIVE THROUGH 350-400 YEARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND 150-200 YEARS IN EUROPE. SO I WONDER WHERE DID THEY TAKE THE EVIDENCE TO PROOVE ONE THEORY OR ANOTHER?
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
(Macedonia, 11 July 2017 14:41)
Over two years later, and they never did. It was just all talk. I visited FYROM and people were extremely friendly, even friendlier when they found out I was Serbian. But Serbia should revoke recognition of FYROM because Greece is a true friend that risked a lot to help Serbia in the 1990s. Plus, they are on the right side of history when it comes to the name Macedonia.
Ancient history is irrelevant today.
What Alex was or was not is irrelevant today.
Present day Macedonians are different from Ancient history Macedonians.
In 2500 years cultures change and evolve, go figure.
Just like present day Neapolitans (Italians) are different from Ancient Neapolitans (Ancient Hellens).
That doesnt make present day Neapolitans any less Neapolitan.
Just as it does not make present day Macedonians any less Macedonian.
The sooner we understand and accept this the sooner we can focus on the future instead on the ancient history and have a prosperity in the region.
i like very much Ivica Dacic , i would voted him as president if i was a Serbian , he have class . Very very very good politican with class .
He should be president of Serbia or prime minister
Serbia under Boris Tadic or even more early Kostunica it had all salaries and pensions with a lot over Romania
Under Kostunica all worked very good
Can any Serb from here to give me the Serbian gouverment programm ? i am curious what programm has this woman .
Maybe i had judge Vucic wrong to early we have to see what it will happen in 2017 and 2018 after Vucic finised the consolidation and bring the account balance at only -1% of gdp + progress in debts . Croatia debts are 83% of gdp , Serbia debta 72% down from 76%
Stop saying we are "ancient Macedonians" ... you are making us look foolish.
Ari,
We are not serbian, never have been serbian and never will be serbian. Serbs oppressed us but that time is over. Bulgarians are our brothers, not Serbs, and that's why I voted for Zaev and not the serbo Russian shill Grujo
i will leave this b92 article here.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2015&mm=07&dd=15&nav_id=94769
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
Greek Foreign Minister Nikolaos Kotzias has said that his country "will support Kosovo's membership in international bodies and security organizations."
Ljubomir Frckovski you are quoting is referring to the nonsense of "direct ancient history links", aka "we are children of alex the great". I agree with him that is nonsense. Ancient history has nothing to do with the fact that this population has identified as Macedonians for hundreds of years. As UK Royal Journal notes in 1906 - Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian.
rote, Why do you even bother to comment, nobody reads your psycho babble. Or, is this your only form of income, you know, at the Troll institute in Leningrad. (Moderate Serb,
WE DO KNOW THAT THE SERBIAN HISTORY LIKE THOSE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS IS HANGING IN THE AIR. IT HAS LITTLE DOCUMENTAL BASIS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO HAVE THE HISTORY THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. PLEASE ENTER --- http://chronologia.org/ AND FIND THE POOREST SITE THERE. IT IS SERBIAN THOUGH IT EXISTS FOR YEARS NOW AND WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ONES ...
SERBS HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED BUT THEY FEAR TO TOUGH THEIR SAINT HISTORY WRITTEN FOR THEM BY THE OLDENBURGS IN 19 CENTURY ...
Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
You're a Bulgarian dialect speaking, with a Slavic name Slav, not Macedonian and your people settled on Paeonia not on Macedonia.
Stephen G. Miller, Historian, Prof Dr Berkeley University
[[[Who is referring to the self-declared "Republika Macedonija" which fabricated maps attempting to present PAEONIA as supposedly united region with Macedonia-Greece and to the banknotes this country circulated with the Greek city of Thessaloniki on them]]]; I wonder what we would conclude if a certain large island off the south-east coast of the United States started to call itself Florida, and emblazoned its currency with images of Disney World and distributed maps showing the Greater Florida..."
Ljubomir Frckovski, Leader of FYROMacedonia's Socialist Political Party, former Minister of Internal Affairs
One small group of (FYROM's) historians and political fraudsters managed to impose throughout the (FYROM's) media, a hysterical discourse about our identity, which created a great damage to the state. They turned Macedonia in their project, I would say into a country of ridicule, and everybody laughs at us..Fraudulent history concepts cannot help us. These people are trying to present us, as super-ancient Slavs, who never migrated, but always were here and used the Slavic language that we speak. These frauds and hallucinations varies from meaningless, to absurd, to totally absorb illusions."
IF I START TO TELL THE FACTS OF THE FALSE GREEK HISTORY I AM AFRAID I WON'T BE ABLE TO STOP. SO DON'T TEASE ME PLEASE. GREECE IS THE LAST PLACE TO GO AFTER HISTORY I THINK.
BEFORE 18 CENTURY ALL OF THE SULTANS WERE OF RUS ORIGIN AND LIKE OPTHER GREAT KHANS WERE BURRIED AS PHARAOHS IN GEEZE VALLEY IN THE IMPERIAL CEMETERY. SULTAN AMURAD WAS ALSO BURRIED THERE BUT HE HAS MANY MEMORIES AND MEMORIALS IN RUSSIA. IT WAS A HODIAN TRADITION TO INSTALL CROSS AND CHURCH ON THE BATTLE FIELD. BUT THE PICTURES THAT I SAW IN YOUR LINK BELONG TO 18-20 CENTURY BECAUSE AMURAD WAS A PURE RUS ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN. TO SAY NOTHING THAT IN 14 CENTURY ISLAM WAS STILL PART OF OUR RUS CHURCH.
Yes he was Greek by belief, but was Slav by language and a Romey by birth like all other Rjurikovici. Greek version was revived in 19 century when for the first time in the history part of Balkans was called Greece.
(rote, 11 July 2017 16:31)
I am going to say it one more time. If you have a thirst for knowledge and history, go the museum in Vergina, Greece, the tome of Philip of Macedon, the relics , encryption are all Hellenic and Greek. There is not one ounce of archaeological proof that Greek Macedonians are "Slavs".http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museums/Archaeological_and_Byzantine/Arx_Bas_Tafoi_Berginas.html
While you are at it, why don't you visit the tomb of the Sultan Murad in Kosovo as well. https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g295385-d8727261-Reviews-Tomb_of_Sultan_Murad-Pristina.html
As a Macedonian, this is GREAT news. We need to distance ourselves from Serbia as much as possible, and get closer and closer with Bulgaria. Couldn't be happier! Thank you Zaev :)
(Tonche Makedonche, 11 July 2017 18:53)
I think based on current birthrates, you are only getting closer and closer to being absorbed by Greater Albania. That's actually the way Zaev is heading too. You probably could of avoided that fate too had you remained Serbian. Sad!
In Russia we have lots of memories about Alexander with some of them in Moscow Kremlin ... some in Siberia ... the Far East ... central Asia. Those are stories of the Slavic history but not of the Greek one.
(rote, 11 July 2017 16:31)
rote,
Why do you even bother to comment, nobody reads your psycho babble. Or, is this your only form of income, you know, at the Troll institute in Leningrad.
"Ethnically the Macedonian Slavs are Macedonian, not either Servian or Bulgarian"
There has never been an "ethnos" of Macedonia since the Slavs settled in the area in the 6th century and therefore modern Slavs living in the area cannot identify with it.The Serbian academic you present as your source should've been aware of that.FYROM is only Macedonia in geographical terms of medieval/modern administrative designations (Roman, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire, etc), which for Greece are of little significance and mean nothing.I will finish with a quote from Jonathan M. Hall, “Classical Archaeology and the Ancient Historian”, University of Chicago, 2014, p.103-104:
“The claim on the part of the Slavic Republic to the name Macedonia is at best, a theft of [Greek] national property, heritage, and identity, and, at worst, a thinly veiled irredentist aspiration to the [Greek] territory the Slavs [by themselves] termed as 'Aegean Macedonia
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
Instead of blaming someone else just act you are foreign minister propose this change in parlament if needed but do it, or you can not as you need to ask papa EU?
(Bilbao, 11 July 2017 14:24)
You have a point there, but unfortunately it begins with Tito who created "Macedonski" republic , why was Greece quite then? Greece did not see a threat as it was a republic under the Federation of Yugoslavia, they were wrong. Tito used the name hoping to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Northern Greece in "his" version of Yugoslavia.
We are not serbian, never have been serbian and never will be serbian. Serbs oppressed us but that time is over. Bulgarians are our brothers, not Serbs, and that's why I voted for Zaev and not the serbo Russian shill Grujo
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 11:32)
===================
So when you are overrun by Albanians you can ask the Bulgarians to help you.
BTW, how did Serbs oppress you?
...from this viewpoint, the claim on the part of the Slavic Republic
to the name Macedonia and to its inhabitants' descent from the
ancient Macedonians represented at best a theft...
1. "from this viewpoint" - he is presenting the greek viewpoint, not necessarily his own.
2. "and to its inhabitants' descent from the ancient Macedonians" -
he is pointing out that present day Macedonians are Slavic. that is correct.
and they do not descent from Ancient Macedonians. that is also correct.
It is false to claim descendancy from ancient populations from 2500 years ago.
And present day Macedonians are Macedonians, different from Ancient Macedonians. Just like many present day modern people are different from their ancient history homonyms.(i.e. present day Neapolitans-Italian vs Ancient Neapolitans-Ancient Hellenic)
2400 years from Ancient Macedonians and about 1400 years of Slavic cultures in the region an authentic Macedonian identity, people and ethnicity had lots of time to develop. Along with the slavic Macedonian language, traditions, culture, and so on.
As it's noted by many international sources, from hundred years or more.
Here is one from the New York Times archives from 1903
"Mass meeting of Macedonians, 10 000 Macedonians.. Boris Sarafof, Yankof and other Macedonian leaders...
the day the Slavs of FYROM can read the Ancient Macedonian inscriptions is the day they can call themselves Macedonian. The official language of FYROM is Bulgarian. They call the dialect Macedonian which is incorrect. It is mutually intelligible with Bulgarian. Dialect does not constitute a language. If the official language of FYROM changes to Greek then they can be classified Hellenes. Once they embrace Hellenism with language they can have their history and make justifiably make their irrendentist claims. Until this time they are Slavs of FYROM anad they will stay Slavs of FYROM until they start speaking Greek - the language of the Ancient Macedonians.
I have a question of the two Greeks who post regularly post here and attack the Macedonians without end
what drives your own insecurity and tell us about your family history be honest
You ask other countries to change position on Kosovo why can not Serbia change recognition of Macedonia to FRYM?
Instead of blaming someone else just act you are foreign minister propose this change in parlament if needed but do it, or you can not as you need to ask papa EU?
You have a point there, but unfortunately it begins with Tito who created "Macedonski" republic , why was Greece quite then? Greece did not see a threat as it was a republic under the Federation of Yugoslavia, they were wrong. Tito used the name hoping to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Northern Greece in "his" version of Yugoslavia.
(Jugoslavija, 11 July 2017 16:26)
Good point but Tito died in 1980, Serbia can act and accept them as FRYM, Dacic is all talk no action not sure how he is still around.
If I was Greek FM I would say either change your stance or we change it on Kosovo.
Ok, but what about your language . Are you going to admit it that is Bulgarian? Or at least it's not yours ? Or tell us who's language you are using ? Please 😊 Thanks
О передаче на вечные времена Благороднымъ Славянамъ въ управление (владычество) какъ Сереного полушарiя Космоса именуемого БѣлСвѣтъ онъ же Мiръ онъ же Русь, такъ и территорiи северного полушарiя Земли Да’Арiя - она же Планета Земля
The Macedonian Language only the Greeks and Bulgar's moan about
there isnt a doubt in the World by anyone else
to the small brigade here get over it and build a bridge because the Macedonians dont have to prove a thing to anyone
Welcome to the Balkans
were nobody acknowledges anyone
were everyone fights between themselves
were the past is the present
no wonder the Balkans is a dump
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 20:10)
==================
I will ask you again.
How did Serbia oppress you?
For you information, Serbia DID NOT lose anything to Albanians. Serbia lost to NATO.
The Greek Minister of vists Serbia and like clock work the same Serb bending to the Greek.
Does it suit Serbia not have relationships with its Neighbors for no reason at all. As for all the chatting here about whom and what the Maks are
how about we tell you keep on talking between yourselves
Serbia oppressed us for nearly a century. Violently. And stop acting like you can help us with the Albanians - you lost half your country to them! We love Bulgaria, we want EU. Serbia is irrelevant.
(Tonche Makedonche, 12 July 2017 20:10)
Nah, you just want to keep jumping from different sugar daddy's in hopes one can save you. So pathetic. I know the majority of FYROMians don't think like you, if they do then too bad for them. Serbia lost half its territory to Albanians? Are you high? That's quite literally what FYROM is facing right now, including losing most of its own capital city to Albanians. Poor guy, Serbia isn't to blame for your elite's poor choices!
I dont see any real Macedonians comment here only Albanci pretending to be speaking on behalf of Macedonians, get lost and stop trying to spoil our relationship with Serbia a few stupid political move have strained it but its not the true feeling of the People. We embrace all our Orthodox brothers and sisters and need to become closer together not further apart as the west trys to integrate and wash us out with migrants to make us week!
“The claim on the part of the Slavic Republic to the name Macedonia is at best, a theft of [Greek] national property, heritage, and identity, and, at worst, a thinly veiled irredentist aspiration to the [Greek] territory the Slavs [by themselves] termed as 'Aegean Macedonia
(Leonidas, 11 July 2017 20:16)
Leonidas,
I agree that the Slavs who call themselves Macedonians have no connection with the ancient Macedonians. Equally, however, the so-called modern Greeks have no connection with the ancient Greeks,
DNA studies clearly supports this assertion.
it is a joke only if factual historic evidence are a joke to you.
im sorry you have hard time understanding this.
(Macedonia, 12 July 2017 14:35)
=======
I have read your "evidence" and am not impressed.
Wiki is the source which we all know is not reliable and here is a bit of what it said:
Identification[edit]
The definition of the ethnic Macedonian identity arose from the writings of Georgi Pulevski, who identified the existence of a distinct modern "Macedonian" language and nation.[19] Pulevski summarized the folk histories of the Macedonian people and concluded that the Macedonians were descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. This opinion was based on the claim that the ancient Macedonian language had Slavic components in it, and thus, the ancient Macedonians were Slavic, and that modern Macedonians were descendants of them.[20] However his Macedonian self-identification was ambiguous. Pulevski viewed Macedonian identity as being a regional phenomenon, similar to Herzegovinians and Thracians. He also sometimes described himself as a "Serbian patriot",[20] but he also viewed his ethnic designation as "Bulgarian from the village of Galičnik".[21][22][23] Pulevski's different identifications actually revealed the absence of a clear ethnic identity among part of the local Macedonian population at that time.
He couldn't even decide what he was let alone what others are.
Equally, however, the so-called modern Greeks have no connection with the ancient Greeks,
DNA studies clearly supports this assertion.
(Moderate Serb,
No modern world historian will ever claim that modern people are closely related to ancient ones in terms of DNA.What’s important is the continuation of certain features (e.g. culture, language and occasionaly religion ), which ensures communities evolve through time in a historical sense. Modern Greece is descended from Medieval Greece, which is descended from Roman Greece, which is descended from Alexandrian/Hellenistic Greece, which is descended from Classical Greece, which is descended from Archaic Greece, Bronze-Age Greece, Mycenean Greece, and so on and so forth. There is a gradual progression and continuity.
I can seen on here to how you guys are going mad 😡 soon as someone speaks about Albanians but we know it's not your fault because they told you to do so they tough you to hate so and now the hate for Albanians it is inside you.
An old man Avranites (Arbresh) from Athens told me a story he said that today we have a problem in Athens with people that come from Asia and they called them selfs Greek Everything we say or do like how strong and clever we are or for our ancestors they say it's us it's Greek and you Albanians are nothing etc... one day honestly to god no lies he said my son gone a took a real dog shit honestly dog shit and he was telling them look this is Albanians real mans shit big strong etc... all of them start shouting it's ours we do have same shit you are stilling from us and Now you see who really todays Greeks are.
I do feel sorry for many people in Greece,Serbia,Rumania,Macedonia,Montenegro that they really don't know who they really are and been in one country doesn't mean you're are from that country I can promise 100% that all you guys here have Albanians blood on your veins.
Start from your self and move next that's what they won't let you do just what they tell you to do and who they want you to be and you to believe at ...✌🏼
Just a passing observation this must be the most commented thread ever
Serbs wouldnt care they are friends
its the Greek brigade
these posters who have hijacked this thread yet again need to ask themselves and look inside what really drives them to do it I mean to go nuts about the Macedonains
they always avoid the question
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