"West is to blame for Russia's growing influence in Serbia"

adi_bucharest

It is nice to see that there are still patriots in Romania who are prod of their country and who want to see it prosper.

The figures you give for Romania may, as you claim, show Romania to be slightly richer than other east European EU countries, but those Romanian salaries are hardly impressive. I think it you had defended Ceaușescu from his CIA murderers you would be better off today. I am not saying that Ceaușescu was a great leader, but he was much better than the Western-sponsored poodles who rule you today. When Ceaușescu was murdered he had just succeeded in freeing you and you countrymen from debt slavery. Ceaușescu paid off all his foreign debt. Today, you and the next 100 generations of you family will have to pay interest to foreign financiers who tricked you into taking loans you could pay back for things you didn’t need.

So, you are the richest man in the poor house. Congratulations.

Serbia has to continue remaining neutral and work on building ties with ALL the world's superpowers including the West, Russia & China. Any efforts by the West to get Serbia to minimize Russia's influence in the Balkans must be rejected because that is not in Serbia's interest.

Serbia has been probably a little too defiant in its history with regards to dealing with much stronger empires. Most of this defiance was out of necessity, but having bigger balls than brains is very dangerous. Bridges must be built with everyone, but resist the pressure to fully commit to any one side.

Yugoslavia and not Serbia which responded to Hitler's pressure in 1941. Serbia did not exist as a country in 1941.
(Reader, 29 June 2017 20:20

Actually, Yugoslavia did not exist from 1941-45. It was carved up to make a Croatian nazi puppet state. It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.

Sloboda ili Smrt.

Sebija good relations with western powers ???

We Serbian people know USA just loves us to DEATH !!!

adi_bucharest, 29 June 2017 12:31

"what do you think dear Slavic neigbours about this ?

We overtake Croatia , Lithuania , Latvia , Hungary , Slovakia"

LOL, I think you don't really have a good overview about economics.

What difference does minimum salary make when your GDP PPP per capita is only higher than the rest of the Balkans, Ukraine, the Caucasus and Belarus, as far as Europe is concerned? Even Turkey and Kazakhstan have a higher GDP PPP per capita than Romania does.

Countries like Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia and the Baltics are either equal to or have overtaken Greece and Portugal. We are not far off from Italy and Spain. Give us a few years and we will be the economic intermediate between Southern and Western Europe.

Until Romania reaches at least this level, you are still the poorest EU nation. The only one you have thus far "defeated" is Bulgaria, LOL. Well done! Congratulations! :D The truth be told, given current trends, you will probably overtake Croatia in the next two years. Well done. Then you will be the third poorest EU nation, hahaha.

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

You're a clown. You said the "Serbian Prime Minister" but that office did not exist during the 1940s. And I am not denying that a pact was signed, that was historical fact. It's also historical fact that the pact never came into existence because a mere hours later the government that signed it was overthrown, by the Serbian people.

But the original point you were trying to make was that the Serbian people did not resist Hitler all because of this stillborn pact that was never even realized. You don't think that such a statement is beyond moronic? It is. You are belittling what the Serbian people went through and the sacrifices they made to defeat fascism. I would never belittle the fact that Albania provided refugee to many Jews fleeing Hitler. That doesn't change the fact that the 'kosovars' were the 2nd biggest Hitler supporters after only Croats, while the Serbs fought honorably in two anti-fascist fronts to defeat fascism. What's that, facts?

The manner in which Serbian politicians responded to A-H in 1914 brought about WWI and had as a consequence the widespread destruction of Serbia and the death of almost 40% of its population (according to Serbian sources). Today Serbia could have been a nation of several million more people living also throughout Bosnia and Kosovo.
(Reader, 29 June 2017 20:20)

You have no clue how Serbia responded diplomatically against Austro-Hungary as the government had no direct connection to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Austro-Hungary was looking for an excuse to wipe Serbia off the map and this event fit perfectly. Serbia complied to all the demands from Austrian Foreign Affairs Minister Berchtold except breaching ts sovereignty. https://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/The_Austro-Hungarian_Ultimatum_to_Serbia_(English_translation)

How amusing to see an uneducated buffoon try to talk about a subject he has no clue about.

If you are a Serbian politician you can blame the West for anything and everything.
(Bob, 29 June 2017 15:18)

Correct.
This is the Minister of Foreign Affairs saying that none of the problems with foreign affairs are his fault. He is not doing his job but don't blame him.

Serbia has been probably a little too defiant in its history with regards to dealing with much stronger empires. Most of this defiance was out of necessity, but having bigger balls than brains is very dangerous. Bridges must be built with everyone, but resist the pressure to fully commit to any one side.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 16:40)

--

I think it can be safely said that the manner in which Serbia responded to Austro-Hungarian ultimatum (1914) and Hitler's pressure (March 1941) is the ultimate triumph of Serbian brains over Serbian balls, and the final victory of Serbian pragmatism over nationalistic rigidity. That the Western powers could not or would not meet Serbian pragmatism with pragmatism and flexibility of their own speaks more about themselves than of the Serbs.

Remember, it was not for nothing that Serbia was always "a little too defiant in its history with regards to dealing with much stronger empires": see, those "stronger empires" (which ultimately turned out to be not strong enough) had left us absolutely NO other choice but to defy, defy and defy again. They didn't speak softly and tenderly to us in 1389, or in 1804, or in 1878, or in 1908, or in 1914, or in 1941, or in 1945, or in 1991, or in 1998, or in 2008. When it comes to Serbia, the only language the West speaks is the language of the force, farce and fierce.

But we wore them out, and we outlived them. And we will do it again.

"The manner in which Serbian politicians responded to A-H in 1914 brought about WWI and had as a consequence the widespread destruction of Serbia and the death of almost 40% of its population (according to Serbian sources)." (Reader, 29 June 2017 20:20)

No it did not. Serbs did not kill their own in the World War I. Serbia would have been attacked, and Serbs massacred, IRRESPECTIVE of how the Serbian government had responded to the AH ultimatum. Ultimatum served only to fig-leaf the crude imperialistic aspirations on part of the AH empire vis-a-vis the Serbs.

Virtually all responsible, educated and impartial historians will agree that the Serbian response to the ultimatum was a marvel of diplomatic finesse; a mild-mannered, accommodating and non-confrontational response which sought to avert hostilities at any price. If this is not a final triumph of brain over brawn, I don't know what is.

==

"That is not brains in any book."

When you are sentenced to death, very few choices you have are "brains"; however, given the complexity and gravity of the situation, it can be safely said that the Serbian government and Serbian people acted with remarkable restraint and tact. Everything else is a revisionist western agit-prop narrative

==

"Today Serbia could have been a nation of several million more people living also throughout Bosnia and Kosovo."

Yes, and they would all be speaking fluent German with a thick Turkish accent. And your point is?

Before i was comparing Romania with Serbia and Bulgaria

it seem to be that from 2018 we are stronger than Czech Republic and Croatia and baltic states in terms of minimum salary + follow huge grows in minimum salary 2019 2020 2018 450 euro for normal education and 530 euro for high education 2020 568 euro for normal education and 700 euro for high education . spliting as an average for 2020 normal education and high education it result a 630 euro minimum salary !

I am so happy that we defeated others

I i rarely come here for say things + here are EXPERTS as ROTE for example what i say is a reality not even a debate or a promision !
(adi_bucharest, 29 June 2017 15:15) # Comment link

It comes back to "Cost of Living",
It doesn't matter how much you make (money). It matters how much you spend and how much it cost to live in the city/town.
What is the point that you make 30 per cent higher income then other country (Serbia) ,but spend more then 50 to 100 per cent on food and bills .So you are then worse off.
COST OF LIVING ,is important.

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!
(icj1, 30 June 2017 02:04)

Sometimes, it is far better to just keep quiet and let a complete fool such as yourself keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about.

First of all, it wasn't the "Serbian Prime Minister" that signed that pact, because that office did not exist at the time. It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact. However this agreement resulted in riots on the streets of Belgrade and the overthrow of Paul within mere hours of it being signed under the slogan "Better war than pact, better the grave than servitude" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

And Serbia paid dearly for this defiance as Belgrade was bombed into the ground during Operation Retribution (1941). This followed 4 years of primarily Serbian resistance, while others in the region formed groups like SS Skenderbeg, SS Handzar and of course, the Croat puppet state NDH.

Ya you can try to whitewash WWII history, but you and I both know who resisted, and who was a spineless vassal. One thing I need to learn though is never argue with a fool because people from a distance can't tell who is who!

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40) # Co

Prince Paul instructed Milan Stojadinovic to negotiate the terms of the agreement, Cvetkovic ended up signing it. You think history is learned by WILKPEDIA OR GOOGLE SEARCH. You really belong in a mental institute.

If you are a Serbian politician you can blame the West for anything and everything.

Much of modern medicine was developed in the West. Without the consequent population increase, most of the world's trouble makers would never have been born.

That is quite likely to include most of the members of Socialist Party of Serbia.

One thing I need to learn though is never argue with a fool
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

For 3 long years Serbs fought alone in Europe and they suffered second big combat losses after the USSR so you don't have to prove anything any longer. Your grandas have done it forever.

"I think it can be safely said that the manner in which Serbia responded to Austro-Hungarian ultimatum (1914) and Hitler's pressure (March 1941) is the ultimate triumph of Serbian brains over Serbian balls, and the final victory of Serbian pragmatism over nationalistic rigidity."

The manner in which Serbian politicians responded to A-H in 1914 brought about WWI and had as a consequence the widespread destruction of Serbia and the death of almost 40% of its population (according to Serbian sources). Today Serbia could have been a nation of several million more people living also throughout Bosnia and Kosovo.
That is not brains in any book. What Serbia got out of it in the end was to be enveloped inside Yugoslavia and be a minority in the country. A strong dominating minority but still a minority. It was Yugoslavia and not Serbia which responded to Hitler's pressure in 1941. Serbia did not exist as a country in 1941.

@Reader
You may want to brush up on your history champ before making ridiculous claims on what and who started WW1. Funny how A+H got their asses kicked by a tiny Serbian nation at the start of the war and then went begging to big brother the Germans for help.

You have no clue how Serbia responded diplomatically against Austro-Hungary as the government had no direct connection to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Austro-Hungary was looking for an excuse to wipe Serbia off the map and this event fit perfectly. Serbia complied to all the demands from Austrian Foreign Affairs Minister Berchtold except breaching ts sovereignty. [link](English_translation)

How amusing to see an uneducated buffoon try to talk about a subject he has no clue about.
(Jugoslavija, 29 June 2017 21:33)
================
What some are conveniently forgetting that even though it was a Serb who pulled the trigger, it could've been anyone from the group called "Mlada Bosna" (young Bosnia). Serbia had nothing to do with what happened in Sarajevo and at the time was a part of Yugoslavia not a country on it's own. Amazing how nobody blamed Bosnia for anything which was also a part of Yugoslavia and whose citizen did the deed.
Blaming Serbia was ridiculous. If it was a Muslim from that group who pulled the trigger who would AH blame then?

Blaming Serbia was ridiculous. If it was a Muslim from that group who pulled the trigger who would AH blame then?
(Peggy, 30 June 2017 03:16)

There was a Bosnian "Muslim" as part of the "Mlad Bosna" and Black Hand Society led by Apis and Tankosic. He managed to throw a grenade which blew up a few yards away from Archduke Ferdinand's car. The Austrian General Poitorek who was in charge of security decided to change the procession route which led to Gavrilo Princip's location. You would think Poitorek would have cancelled the whole event. Guess you led the invasion of Serbia? General Poitorek who was soundly trounced by Serbian Generals Stepanovic, Misic , Putnik and others. He was relieved of his position after the Austro-Hungarian army retreated back to Vienna from Serbia in 1915.

Apis or Dragutin Dimitrijevic, the leader of Black Hand Society was eventually caught and court martialed by Prince Alexander Karadjeordjevic. He was shot by a military firing squad at the Salonika Front.

Serbia is insignifiant small country of 7 million people who really think that Russia or Germany or West care about a 7 million people country ?

they don`t care even about Poland and Romania

the last worry of Germany is a small balkan country called Serbia

Is as an adult would go to play with 5 years old kids

For ROTE

you have in Russia 100 euro minimum salary we got 450 euro 2018 january

http://www.turnulsfatului.ro/2017/06/29/noul-program-de-guvernare-salariul-minim-creste-la-2000-de-lei-de-la-1-ianuarie-2018/ and pension point at 400 euro in 2020 that is equivalent with almost average pension

WE LET YOU RUSSIANS FAR BEHIND ECONOMICAL

I AM SO HAPPY TODAY

for Peter Sudyka

here is a wikipedia link with all minimum salaries from planet and what purchashing power they have our current one of 325 euro per month have same purchashing power with the one from Croatia and Czech and in 2018 it will grow purchashing power with almost 50% it will be one of the most big purchashing power of minimum salary from the planet + in condition they cut taxes i even cannot imagine what purchashing power will have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

i think more even than Spain as purchashing power

For the one who asked why our gouverment was changed ? because they not wanted to accept this new minimum salary .

No one from this planet have this developments in minimum salary in 2015 it was 225 euro 2016 275 euro 2017 325 euro 2018 450 euro + the grow doesn`t stop in 2018 it grow huge 2019 and 2020 to .

WE HAVE A HERO CALLED LIVIU DRAGNEA HE DO BIG MIRACLE

+ in 2018 cut taxes of gross salary + this huge indexaction of minimum will push average salary at 800 euro .

LIVIU DRAGNEA => He do what nobody from this planet managed to do he change Romania over the night i always belived in him his gdp forecast for 2018 is +15% .

There is no country on this planet with this developments in only 2 years

450 euro in Romania is equivalent with 600 euro in Serbia taking in consideration the prices

NOW SERBS CONTINUE UR STORY THAT YOU FOUGHT VS GERMANS 70 YEARS AGO

But the original point you were trying to make was that the Serbian people did not resist Hitler (etc)
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 20:29)

--
YOUR original point was that throughout their history Serbs have had "larger balls than brains" and that they defied the "mighty" empires needlessly and impulsively (i.e.,like feral animals), without ever having their best long-term rational interests in mind, whereas they could have simply rolled with the flow and saved themselves some trouble.

A part of this ugly stereotype is precisely what you just did: impress on us that you feel we are dumber than we really think we are because - ostensibly - in our decision-making processes, we only use our animal instincts, herd mentality and testosterone rather than logic, common sense, ratio or self-interest. And yet, NOTHING in the documented 1400-year history of the Serbs merits such blatantly dehumanizing misconception.

In any event, rational actors only exist where rational choices can be FREELY made. There are NO Weberian "ideal-type" rational actors being led to the guillotine in oxen carts or in North Korean gulags. What kind of cool, calm and collected response to "Serben muss sterben" would you have preferred?

Whether the Tripartite Pact was signed by Serbia or Serbian dynast is entirely irrelevant. What IS relevant is that Serbs have ALWAYS acted to avert war as a first choice. Simply put:shooting first and asking questions later has NEVER been a part of our national ethos.

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

You're a clown
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 20:29)

Why?! For proving without a shadow of a doubt that your writing that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact" was a pure lie? Even our dear friend Jugoslavija confirmed that you lied.

Dear, it's not my or Jugoslavija's fault why you seldom check the facts before writing, so feel free to direct your anger to yourself... you can avoid becoming the laughing stock of these forums by just checking the facts before you write.

for Peter Sudyka

Is not all only about gdp per capita , minimum salary is very important because it influence the average one and is not about the gdp per capita

Gdp per capita is not someting that is = with standard of living and is good for public sector salaries and pensions

450 euro 2018 minimum salary 500 euro 2019 550 euro 2020 is good

When ever KAZAKSTAN will have minimum salary 450 euro ? + we not have inflation we had deflation 2 years in a row and now we have inflation under 1% .

So what is more important the salary or the gdp ?

not to mention that in 2020 for who have education minimum salary will be 700 euro .

The big gdp per capita of Kazakstan at what help ?

Even Albania have minimum salary more than Kazakstan

Blaming Serbia was ridiculous. If it was a Muslim from that group who pulled the trigger who would AH blame then?
(Peggy, 30 June 2017 03:16)

It would not have mattered much who pulled the trigger since the destruction of Serbia was on the agenda at least 2 years before the assignation of Ferdinand. If an Australian pulled the trigger they would have blamed Serbia.

The reason was the idea of a Yugoslavia where slavs could live in one country, but for the AHs it meant the breakup and loss of large parts of their empire. Sad part was that Ferdinand was opposed to any war with Serbia.

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!
(icj1, 30 June 2017 02:04)

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture https://i0.wp.com/ww2-weapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WW2-Chronology-310-px800.jpg that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40) # Co

Dumb: A person lacking Mental Power
Stupid: A person below Normal Intelligencehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSu25pQ4iFw

(icj1, 2 July 2017 02:22)

WOW, you needed 3 whole posts just to reply to my one. Insecure much? What difference does it make who signed the actual piece of paper? It was the government of Prince Paul's that signed the agreement in the first place. You are trying to sidetrack with semantics which are irrelevant to your original points. I will summarize those for you again.

-You claimed somehow that because this agreement was signed, it was proof that the Serbian people somehow collaborated with Hitler. WRONG! This agreement was nullified within mere hours of its signing, it was stillborn and defunct from the moment it was signed. What followed after was the bombing of Belgrade and the resistance by the Serbian people while your uncles formed SS Skenderbeg in Serbia's southern province.

-You claimed that the office which signed the agreement was the Prime Minister of Serbia. WRONG! This office did not exist in the 1940s.

Those are the facts. I realize Serb hating is a job which you have taken very seriously over the past decade posting on B92, but stick to the facts. I realize you are ashamed of the spineless collaboration your uncles undertook in the 1940s, but trying to dim Serbia's honorable anti-fascist history will not help cure your mental complex.

Before i was comparing Romania with Serbia and Bulgaria

it seem to be that from 2018 we are stronger than Czech Republic and Croatia and baltic states in terms of minimum salary + follow huge grows in minimum salary 2019 2020 2018 450 euro for normal education and 530 euro for high education 2020 568 euro for normal education and 700 euro for high education . spliting as an average for 2020 normal education and high education it result a 630 euro minimum salary !

I am so happy that we defeated others

I i rarely come here for say things + here are EXPERTS as ROTE for example what i say is a reality not even a debate or a promision !

Dacic is a liar! He has supported Serbia actually Having an ipap with NATO which means it will be a member of NATO. He is not supporting anything like ipap with russia

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!

what's worn little Milo, not getting payed enough from Russia and now you want more from the West

KOSOVO BATTLE IN MOSCOW IN 1380 ....

http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=KOSOVO

THIRTY REFLECTIONS OF THE BATTLE OF KULIKOVO

8) In the history of the Balkans: the Battle in the Kosovo field allegedly in 1389; it is considered to have taken place in Serbia. The story of Sultan Murad = Dmitry Donskoy. We will talk about it in our future publications.

WELCOME HOME ...

Jugoslavija

According to Fomenko Dmitry I Ivanovic (Donskoy) aka Sultan Murat I (father of Vasili I (Bayazed) aka Konstantine I the Great is most likely burried in Geeze (Kazak) Valley in the Imerial Cemetery where all the Great Khans were mumified, delivered over the Styx River (Mediterranien) and burries as Pharaohs. Yet Napoleon in 1798 and then the Brits in 1811 destroyed most of the tombs and their real dead bodies can merely be identified.

In the Russian history you will find qiute a few words about Dmitry's death ("In 1389 Kniaz Dmitry died"). No details but "the Greek Archbishop of Trabesund served the burial services". According to Fomenko the priest was inside the horde and they had no time to deliver the dead body to Veliki Novgorod where the World Patriarch (also Greek) lived or to the Sergieva Lavra where Dmitry's Godfather Sergy Radonezhski lived.

Monuments you talk about could quite be built on their death places especially if they were controlled by the Ottomans who all were Rus/Romey Rjurikovici and were members of the same family and dynasty. According to Fomenko soon after the Kulikovo Battle of 1380 Great Khan Dmitry has abandoned Rus for Jerusalem and was never back again. His descendants ruled the empire from there that split the Rjurikovici and their joint horde under Mehmet II (Prophet Mohammad) seized Jerusalem/Tsargrad in 1453. After that relations with mainland Rus became good for 200 years.

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!
(icj1, 30 June 2017 02:04)

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

Dumb: A person lacking Mental Power
Stupid: A person below Normal Intelligence[link]
(Jugoslavija, 30 June 2017 23:07)

Absolutely, I totally agree with you that they both appear to be a good description of our dear fried Ari Gold.

New Minimum salary from Romania from 2018 450 euro for no study and 520 euro for study . I don`t have a link in English , the smart Serbs from here or for Rote won`t be a problem to find our links or official new gouverment changes and program is not a joke 450 euro minimum salary from 2018

what do you think dear Slavic neigbours about this ?

We overtake Croatia , Lithuania , Latvia , Hungary , Slovakia

8) In the history of the Balkans: the Battle in the Kosovo field allegedly in 1389; it is considered to have taken place in Serbia. The story of Sultan Murad = Dmitry Donskoy. We will talk about it in our future publications.

WELCOME HOME ...
(rote, 30 June 2017 18:29)

Go tell Fomenko to take a trip to the Tomb of Sultan Murad I near Pristina which was mentioned by Evilya Celebi in 1660. The monument was built by Murad I sone Bayezid I, the first example of Ottoman architecture in Kosovo Polje.

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

Prince Paul instructed Milan Stojadinovic to negotiate the terms of the agreement, Cvetkovic ended up signing it.
(Jugoslavija, 30 June 2017 22:49)

Thx for confirming what I wrote and that our dear friend Ari Gold did not have any idea what he/she was talking about when he/she wrote that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact."

Go tell Fomenko to take a trip to the Tomb of Sultan Murad I near Pristina which was mentioned by Evilya Celebi in 1660. The monument was built by Murad I sone Bayezid I, the first example of Ottoman architecture in Kosovo Polje.
(Jugoslavija, 30 June 2017 23:13)


Celebi was the title that the first Sultans liked to use to show the place where they originated from in Cheliabinsk Region of the South Urals. Later they gave the title only to their sons and it used to sound like SHAH ZADE MURAT CELEBI SULTAN. Of cource all of them were Rus and they spoke only Rus and Turkic. Later most respected scientists and mullahs of the same origin were called Celebi too.

As far as I know Kosovo Polje has no signs of a big battle in this place. Initially I believed the local legends about the battle. But then I asked myself why should Serbs use Kos instead of Drozd ? Then i deceded that Kosovo must mean Hayfield from Rus word КОСИТЬ. But it looked strange too because in the middle ages toponymals were given with one aim only - to show the property of the lands. So i came to thinking the the real meaning is COSSACK FIELD. Don't forget that the middle ages it was mentioned only in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_Chronicle_of_Ivan_the_Terrible

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

You're a clown
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 20:29)

Why?! For proving without a shadow of a doubt that your writing that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact" was a pure lie? Even our dear friend Jugoslavija confirmed that you lied.

Dear, it's not my or Jugoslavija's fault why you seldom check the facts before writing, so feel free to direct your anger to yourself... you can avoid becoming the laughing stock of these forums by just checking the facts before you write.
(icj1, 2 July 2017 02:29)

What difference does it make who signed the actual piece of paper?
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Feel free to sort that out with Ari Gold since he/she wrote (incorrectly) that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact" lol

You claimed somehow that because this agreement was signed, it was proof that the Serbian people somehow collaborated with Hitler.
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Nope, I never claimed that. You are claimed that!
----------

This agreement was nullified within mere hours of its signing
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Nope, the new government did not nullify it.
----------

What followed after was the bombing of Belgrade and the resistance by the Serbian people while your uncles formed SS Skenderbeg in Serbia's southern province.
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Sure, the Nazi's bombed cities all over Yugoslavia when they attacked and that was followed by resistance of the Albanian, Croat, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Bosniak, Serb and Slovene people who made up Yugoslavia.

As, for me, I did not have any uncles who were alive during WW2, so it's not clear what you're talking about!
----------

You claimed that the office which signed the agreement was the Prime Minister of Serbia. WRONG! This office did not exist in the 1940s.
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

I never wrote anything about the "Prime Minister of Serbia". Nonetheless, I'm glad that you finally learned, at least, one fact, i.e. that the office of the Prime Minister of Serbia id not exist before the German occupation of Yugoslavia.

adi_bucharest

Of course GDP PPP is important. Purchasing Power Parity. What better way to establish a nation's wealth than looking at the purchasing power per capita of the average citizen? Of course, it is not an exact science, but it does give the average person a clue as to the living standards of the average citizen of a given country.

Wages are important, but who cares what your wages are if the cost of living in your country is high and you cannot afford the same quality of life as a person living in a country where the wages are lower, but the cost of living is even lower? Who lives better?

Romania has a long way o go. It has come a long way since the early 90's, but it is still not in the position to overtake the CEE countries that already had a headstart at the fall of communism.

New Minimum salary from Romania from 2018 450 euro for no study and 520 euro for study . I don`t have a link in English , the smart Serbs from here or for Rote won`t be a problem to find our links or official new gouverment changes and program is not a joke 450 euro minimum salary from 2018

what do you think dear Slavic neigbours about this ?

We overtake Croatia , Lithuania , Latvia , Hungary , Slovakia

Before i was comparing Romania with Serbia and Bulgaria

it seem to be that from 2018 we are stronger than Czech Republic and Croatia and baltic states in terms of minimum salary + follow huge grows in minimum salary 2019 2020 2018 450 euro for normal education and 530 euro for high education 2020 568 euro for normal education and 700 euro for high education . spliting as an average for 2020 normal education and high education it result a 630 euro minimum salary !

I am so happy that we defeated others

I i rarely come here for say things + here are EXPERTS as ROTE for example what i say is a reality not even a debate or a promision !

If you are a Serbian politician you can blame the West for anything and everything.
(Bob, 29 June 2017 15:18)

Correct.
This is the Minister of Foreign Affairs saying that none of the problems with foreign affairs are his fault. He is not doing his job but don't blame him.

For ROTE

you have in Russia 100 euro minimum salary we got 450 euro 2018 january

http://www.turnulsfatului.ro/2017/06/29/noul-program-de-guvernare-salariul-minim-creste-la-2000-de-lei-de-la-1-ianuarie-2018/ and pension point at 400 euro in 2020 that is equivalent with almost average pension

WE LET YOU RUSSIANS FAR BEHIND ECONOMICAL

I AM SO HAPPY TODAY

Serbia has been probably a little too defiant in its history with regards to dealing with much stronger empires. Most of this defiance was out of necessity, but having bigger balls than brains is very dangerous. Bridges must be built with everyone, but resist the pressure to fully commit to any one side.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 16:40)

--

I think it can be safely said that the manner in which Serbia responded to Austro-Hungarian ultimatum (1914) and Hitler's pressure (March 1941) is the ultimate triumph of Serbian brains over Serbian balls, and the final victory of Serbian pragmatism over nationalistic rigidity. That the Western powers could not or would not meet Serbian pragmatism with pragmatism and flexibility of their own speaks more about themselves than of the Serbs.

Remember, it was not for nothing that Serbia was always "a little too defiant in its history with regards to dealing with much stronger empires": see, those "stronger empires" (which ultimately turned out to be not strong enough) had left us absolutely NO other choice but to defy, defy and defy again. They didn't speak softly and tenderly to us in 1389, or in 1804, or in 1878, or in 1908, or in 1914, or in 1941, or in 1945, or in 1991, or in 1998, or in 2008. When it comes to Serbia, the only language the West speaks is the language of the force, farce and fierce.

But we wore them out, and we outlived them. And we will do it again.

Serbia is insignifiant small country of 7 million people who really think that Russia or Germany or West care about a 7 million people country ?

they don`t care even about Poland and Romania

the last worry of Germany is a small balkan country called Serbia

Is as an adult would go to play with 5 years old kids

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

Prince Paul instructed Milan Stojadinovic to negotiate the terms of the agreement, Cvetkovic ended up signing it.
(Jugoslavija, 30 June 2017 22:49)

Thx for confirming what I wrote and that our dear friend Ari Gold did not have any idea what he/she was talking about when he/she wrote that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact."

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

You're a clown
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 20:29)

Why?! For proving without a shadow of a doubt that your writing that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact" was a pure lie? Even our dear friend Jugoslavija confirmed that you lied.

Dear, it's not my or Jugoslavija's fault why you seldom check the facts before writing, so feel free to direct your anger to yourself... you can avoid becoming the laughing stock of these forums by just checking the facts before you write.

Sebija good relations with western powers ???

We Serbian people know USA just loves us to DEATH !!!

If you are a Serbian politician you can blame the West for anything and everything.

Much of modern medicine was developed in the West. Without the consequent population increase, most of the world's trouble makers would never have been born.

That is quite likely to include most of the members of Socialist Party of Serbia.

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!
(icj1, 30 June 2017 02:04)

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture https://i0.wp.com/ww2-weapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WW2-Chronology-310-px800.jpg that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.

adi_bucharest

It is nice to see that there are still patriots in Romania who are prod of their country and who want to see it prosper.

The figures you give for Romania may, as you claim, show Romania to be slightly richer than other east European EU countries, but those Romanian salaries are hardly impressive. I think it you had defended Ceaușescu from his CIA murderers you would be better off today. I am not saying that Ceaușescu was a great leader, but he was much better than the Western-sponsored poodles who rule you today. When Ceaușescu was murdered he had just succeeded in freeing you and you countrymen from debt slavery. Ceaușescu paid off all his foreign debt. Today, you and the next 100 generations of you family will have to pay interest to foreign financiers who tricked you into taking loans you could pay back for things you didn’t need.

So, you are the richest man in the poor house. Congratulations.

adi_bucharest, 29 June 2017 12:31

"what do you think dear Slavic neigbours about this ?

We overtake Croatia , Lithuania , Latvia , Hungary , Slovakia"

LOL, I think you don't really have a good overview about economics.

What difference does minimum salary make when your GDP PPP per capita is only higher than the rest of the Balkans, Ukraine, the Caucasus and Belarus, as far as Europe is concerned? Even Turkey and Kazakhstan have a higher GDP PPP per capita than Romania does.

Countries like Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia and the Baltics are either equal to or have overtaken Greece and Portugal. We are not far off from Italy and Spain. Give us a few years and we will be the economic intermediate between Southern and Western Europe.

Until Romania reaches at least this level, you are still the poorest EU nation. The only one you have thus far "defeated" is Bulgaria, LOL. Well done! Congratulations! :D The truth be told, given current trends, you will probably overtake Croatia in the next two years. Well done. Then you will be the third poorest EU nation, hahaha.

Serbia has to continue remaining neutral and work on building ties with ALL the world's superpowers including the West, Russia & China. Any efforts by the West to get Serbia to minimize Russia's influence in the Balkans must be rejected because that is not in Serbia's interest.

Serbia has been probably a little too defiant in its history with regards to dealing with much stronger empires. Most of this defiance was out of necessity, but having bigger balls than brains is very dangerous. Bridges must be built with everyone, but resist the pressure to fully commit to any one side.

"I think it can be safely said that the manner in which Serbia responded to Austro-Hungarian ultimatum (1914) and Hitler's pressure (March 1941) is the ultimate triumph of Serbian brains over Serbian balls, and the final victory of Serbian pragmatism over nationalistic rigidity."

The manner in which Serbian politicians responded to A-H in 1914 brought about WWI and had as a consequence the widespread destruction of Serbia and the death of almost 40% of its population (according to Serbian sources). Today Serbia could have been a nation of several million more people living also throughout Bosnia and Kosovo.
That is not brains in any book. What Serbia got out of it in the end was to be enveloped inside Yugoslavia and be a minority in the country. A strong dominating minority but still a minority. It was Yugoslavia and not Serbia which responded to Hitler's pressure in 1941. Serbia did not exist as a country in 1941.

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!
(icj1, 30 June 2017 02:04)

Sometimes, it is far better to just keep quiet and let a complete fool such as yourself keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about.

First of all, it wasn't the "Serbian Prime Minister" that signed that pact, because that office did not exist at the time. It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact. However this agreement resulted in riots on the streets of Belgrade and the overthrow of Paul within mere hours of it being signed under the slogan "Better war than pact, better the grave than servitude" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

And Serbia paid dearly for this defiance as Belgrade was bombed into the ground during Operation Retribution (1941). This followed 4 years of primarily Serbian resistance, while others in the region formed groups like SS Skenderbeg, SS Handzar and of course, the Croat puppet state NDH.

Ya you can try to whitewash WWII history, but you and I both know who resisted, and who was a spineless vassal. One thing I need to learn though is never argue with a fool because people from a distance can't tell who is who!

One thing I need to learn though is never argue with a fool
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

For 3 long years Serbs fought alone in Europe and they suffered second big combat losses after the USSR so you don't have to prove anything any longer. Your grandas have done it forever.

for Peter Sudyka

Is not all only about gdp per capita , minimum salary is very important because it influence the average one and is not about the gdp per capita

Gdp per capita is not someting that is = with standard of living and is good for public sector salaries and pensions

450 euro 2018 minimum salary 500 euro 2019 550 euro 2020 is good

When ever KAZAKSTAN will have minimum salary 450 euro ? + we not have inflation we had deflation 2 years in a row and now we have inflation under 1% .

So what is more important the salary or the gdp ?

not to mention that in 2020 for who have education minimum salary will be 700 euro .

The big gdp per capita of Kazakstan at what help ?

Even Albania have minimum salary more than Kazakstan

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!

@Reader
You may want to brush up on your history champ before making ridiculous claims on what and who started WW1. Funny how A+H got their asses kicked by a tiny Serbian nation at the start of the war and then went begging to big brother the Germans for help.

You have no clue how Serbia responded diplomatically against Austro-Hungary as the government had no direct connection to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Austro-Hungary was looking for an excuse to wipe Serbia off the map and this event fit perfectly. Serbia complied to all the demands from Austrian Foreign Affairs Minister Berchtold except breaching ts sovereignty. [link](English_translation)

How amusing to see an uneducated buffoon try to talk about a subject he has no clue about.
(Jugoslavija, 29 June 2017 21:33)
================
What some are conveniently forgetting that even though it was a Serb who pulled the trigger, it could've been anyone from the group called "Mlada Bosna" (young Bosnia). Serbia had nothing to do with what happened in Sarajevo and at the time was a part of Yugoslavia not a country on it's own. Amazing how nobody blamed Bosnia for anything which was also a part of Yugoslavia and whose citizen did the deed.
Blaming Serbia was ridiculous. If it was a Muslim from that group who pulled the trigger who would AH blame then?

for Peter Sudyka

here is a wikipedia link with all minimum salaries from planet and what purchashing power they have our current one of 325 euro per month have same purchashing power with the one from Croatia and Czech and in 2018 it will grow purchashing power with almost 50% it will be one of the most big purchashing power of minimum salary from the planet + in condition they cut taxes i even cannot imagine what purchashing power will have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

i think more even than Spain as purchashing power

For the one who asked why our gouverment was changed ? because they not wanted to accept this new minimum salary .

No one from this planet have this developments in minimum salary in 2015 it was 225 euro 2016 275 euro 2017 325 euro 2018 450 euro + the grow doesn`t stop in 2018 it grow huge 2019 and 2020 to .

WE HAVE A HERO CALLED LIVIU DRAGNEA HE DO BIG MIRACLE

+ in 2018 cut taxes of gross salary + this huge indexaction of minimum will push average salary at 800 euro .

LIVIU DRAGNEA => He do what nobody from this planet managed to do he change Romania over the night i always belived in him his gdp forecast for 2018 is +15% .

There is no country on this planet with this developments in only 2 years

450 euro in Romania is equivalent with 600 euro in Serbia taking in consideration the prices

NOW SERBS CONTINUE UR STORY THAT YOU FOUGHT VS GERMANS 70 YEARS AGO

Blaming Serbia was ridiculous. If it was a Muslim from that group who pulled the trigger who would AH blame then?
(Peggy, 30 June 2017 03:16)

It would not have mattered much who pulled the trigger since the destruction of Serbia was on the agenda at least 2 years before the assignation of Ferdinand. If an Australian pulled the trigger they would have blamed Serbia.

The reason was the idea of a Yugoslavia where slavs could live in one country, but for the AHs it meant the breakup and loss of large parts of their empire. Sad part was that Ferdinand was opposed to any war with Serbia.

KOSOVO BATTLE IN MOSCOW IN 1380 ....

http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=KOSOVO

THIRTY REFLECTIONS OF THE BATTLE OF KULIKOVO

8) In the history of the Balkans: the Battle in the Kosovo field allegedly in 1389; it is considered to have taken place in Serbia. The story of Sultan Murad = Dmitry Donskoy. We will talk about it in our future publications.

WELCOME HOME ...

The manner in which Serbian politicians responded to A-H in 1914 brought about WWI and had as a consequence the widespread destruction of Serbia and the death of almost 40% of its population (according to Serbian sources). Today Serbia could have been a nation of several million more people living also throughout Bosnia and Kosovo.
(Reader, 29 June 2017 20:20)

You have no clue how Serbia responded diplomatically against Austro-Hungary as the government had no direct connection to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Austro-Hungary was looking for an excuse to wipe Serbia off the map and this event fit perfectly. Serbia complied to all the demands from Austrian Foreign Affairs Minister Berchtold except breaching ts sovereignty. https://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/The_Austro-Hungarian_Ultimatum_to_Serbia_(English_translation)

How amusing to see an uneducated buffoon try to talk about a subject he has no clue about.

Before i was comparing Romania with Serbia and Bulgaria

it seem to be that from 2018 we are stronger than Czech Republic and Croatia and baltic states in terms of minimum salary + follow huge grows in minimum salary 2019 2020 2018 450 euro for normal education and 530 euro for high education 2020 568 euro for normal education and 700 euro for high education . spliting as an average for 2020 normal education and high education it result a 630 euro minimum salary !

I am so happy that we defeated others

I i rarely come here for say things + here are EXPERTS as ROTE for example what i say is a reality not even a debate or a promision !
(adi_bucharest, 29 June 2017 15:15) # Comment link

It comes back to "Cost of Living",
It doesn't matter how much you make (money). It matters how much you spend and how much it cost to live in the city/town.
What is the point that you make 30 per cent higher income then other country (Serbia) ,but spend more then 50 to 100 per cent on food and bills .So you are then worse off.
COST OF LIVING ,is important.

Blaming Serbia was ridiculous. If it was a Muslim from that group who pulled the trigger who would AH blame then?
(Peggy, 30 June 2017 03:16)

There was a Bosnian "Muslim" as part of the "Mlad Bosna" and Black Hand Society led by Apis and Tankosic. He managed to throw a grenade which blew up a few yards away from Archduke Ferdinand's car. The Austrian General Poitorek who was in charge of security decided to change the procession route which led to Gavrilo Princip's location. You would think Poitorek would have cancelled the whole event. Guess you led the invasion of Serbia? General Poitorek who was soundly trounced by Serbian Generals Stepanovic, Misic , Putnik and others. He was relieved of his position after the Austro-Hungarian army retreated back to Vienna from Serbia in 1915.

Apis or Dragutin Dimitrijevic, the leader of Black Hand Society was eventually caught and court martialed by Prince Alexander Karadjeordjevic. He was shot by a military firing squad at the Salonika Front.

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

You're a clown. You said the "Serbian Prime Minister" but that office did not exist during the 1940s. And I am not denying that a pact was signed, that was historical fact. It's also historical fact that the pact never came into existence because a mere hours later the government that signed it was overthrown, by the Serbian people.

But the original point you were trying to make was that the Serbian people did not resist Hitler all because of this stillborn pact that was never even realized. You don't think that such a statement is beyond moronic? It is. You are belittling what the Serbian people went through and the sacrifices they made to defeat fascism. I would never belittle the fact that Albania provided refugee to many Jews fleeing Hitler. That doesn't change the fact that the 'kosovars' were the 2nd biggest Hitler supporters after only Croats, while the Serbs fought honorably in two anti-fascist fronts to defeat fascism. What's that, facts?

8) In the history of the Balkans: the Battle in the Kosovo field allegedly in 1389; it is considered to have taken place in Serbia. The story of Sultan Murad = Dmitry Donskoy. We will talk about it in our future publications.

WELCOME HOME ...
(rote, 30 June 2017 18:29)

Go tell Fomenko to take a trip to the Tomb of Sultan Murad I near Pristina which was mentioned by Evilya Celebi in 1660. The monument was built by Murad I sone Bayezid I, the first example of Ottoman architecture in Kosovo Polje.

It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.
(Ari Gold, 29 June 2017 21:37)

That's why the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia signed the tripartite pact entering into alliance with Hitler?! That's how he resisted the Nazis?!
(icj1, 30 June 2017 02:04)

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

Dumb: A person lacking Mental Power
Stupid: A person below Normal Intelligence[link]
(Jugoslavija, 30 June 2017 23:07)

Absolutely, I totally agree with you that they both appear to be a good description of our dear fried Ari Gold.

Dacic is a liar! He has supported Serbia actually Having an ipap with NATO which means it will be a member of NATO. He is not supporting anything like ipap with russia

Yugoslavia and not Serbia which responded to Hitler's pressure in 1941. Serbia did not exist as a country in 1941.
(Reader, 29 June 2017 20:20

Actually, Yugoslavia did not exist from 1941-45. It was carved up to make a Croatian nazi puppet state. It as the Serbian people that resisted the nazis in the greatest number while the other Yugoslavs were more susceptible to collaboration.

Sloboda ili Smrt.

"The manner in which Serbian politicians responded to A-H in 1914 brought about WWI and had as a consequence the widespread destruction of Serbia and the death of almost 40% of its population (according to Serbian sources)." (Reader, 29 June 2017 20:20)

No it did not. Serbs did not kill their own in the World War I. Serbia would have been attacked, and Serbs massacred, IRRESPECTIVE of how the Serbian government had responded to the AH ultimatum. Ultimatum served only to fig-leaf the crude imperialistic aspirations on part of the AH empire vis-a-vis the Serbs.

Virtually all responsible, educated and impartial historians will agree that the Serbian response to the ultimatum was a marvel of diplomatic finesse; a mild-mannered, accommodating and non-confrontational response which sought to avert hostilities at any price. If this is not a final triumph of brain over brawn, I don't know what is.

==

"That is not brains in any book."

When you are sentenced to death, very few choices you have are "brains"; however, given the complexity and gravity of the situation, it can be safely said that the Serbian government and Serbian people acted with remarkable restraint and tact. Everything else is a revisionist western agit-prop narrative

==

"Today Serbia could have been a nation of several million more people living also throughout Bosnia and Kosovo."

Yes, and they would all be speaking fluent German with a thick Turkish accent. And your point is?

what's worn little Milo, not getting payed enough from Russia and now you want more from the West

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40) # Co

Prince Paul instructed Milan Stojadinovic to negotiate the terms of the agreement, Cvetkovic ended up signing it. You think history is learned by WILKPEDIA OR GOOGLE SEARCH. You really belong in a mental institute.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40) # Co

Dumb: A person lacking Mental Power
Stupid: A person below Normal Intelligencehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSu25pQ4iFw

But the original point you were trying to make was that the Serbian people did not resist Hitler (etc)
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 20:29)

--
YOUR original point was that throughout their history Serbs have had "larger balls than brains" and that they defied the "mighty" empires needlessly and impulsively (i.e.,like feral animals), without ever having their best long-term rational interests in mind, whereas they could have simply rolled with the flow and saved themselves some trouble.

A part of this ugly stereotype is precisely what you just did: impress on us that you feel we are dumber than we really think we are because - ostensibly - in our decision-making processes, we only use our animal instincts, herd mentality and testosterone rather than logic, common sense, ratio or self-interest. And yet, NOTHING in the documented 1400-year history of the Serbs merits such blatantly dehumanizing misconception.

In any event, rational actors only exist where rational choices can be FREELY made. There are NO Weberian "ideal-type" rational actors being led to the guillotine in oxen carts or in North Korean gulags. What kind of cool, calm and collected response to "Serben muss sterben" would you have preferred?

Whether the Tripartite Pact was signed by Serbia or Serbian dynast is entirely irrelevant. What IS relevant is that Serbs have ALWAYS acted to avert war as a first choice. Simply put:shooting first and asking questions later has NEVER been a part of our national ethos.

(icj1, 2 July 2017 02:22)

WOW, you needed 3 whole posts just to reply to my one. Insecure much? What difference does it make who signed the actual piece of paper? It was the government of Prince Paul's that signed the agreement in the first place. You are trying to sidetrack with semantics which are irrelevant to your original points. I will summarize those for you again.

-You claimed somehow that because this agreement was signed, it was proof that the Serbian people somehow collaborated with Hitler. WRONG! This agreement was nullified within mere hours of its signing, it was stillborn and defunct from the moment it was signed. What followed after was the bombing of Belgrade and the resistance by the Serbian people while your uncles formed SS Skenderbeg in Serbia's southern province.

-You claimed that the office which signed the agreement was the Prime Minister of Serbia. WRONG! This office did not exist in the 1940s.

Those are the facts. I realize Serb hating is a job which you have taken very seriously over the past decade posting on B92, but stick to the facts. I realize you are ashamed of the spineless collaboration your uncles undertook in the 1940s, but trying to dim Serbia's honorable anti-fascist history will not help cure your mental complex.

It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact.
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 16:16)

Well, looking at this picture [link] that guy in the middle signing the tripartite pact with the Nazis looks very much like the Serbian prime minister of Yugoslavia Dragiša Cvetković.

Please keep on proving that you have no idea what you are talking about - you are doing an excellent job at that.
(icj1, 30 June 2017 18:40)

You're a clown
(Ari Gold, 30 June 2017 20:29)

Why?! For proving without a shadow of a doubt that your writing that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact" was a pure lie? Even our dear friend Jugoslavija confirmed that you lied.

Dear, it's not my or Jugoslavija's fault why you seldom check the facts before writing, so feel free to direct your anger to yourself... you can avoid becoming the laughing stock of these forums by just checking the facts before you write.
(icj1, 2 July 2017 02:29)

What difference does it make who signed the actual piece of paper?
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Feel free to sort that out with Ari Gold since he/she wrote (incorrectly) that "It was Prince Paul of Yugoslavia who signed that pact" lol

You claimed somehow that because this agreement was signed, it was proof that the Serbian people somehow collaborated with Hitler.
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Nope, I never claimed that. You are claimed that!
----------

This agreement was nullified within mere hours of its signing
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Nope, the new government did not nullify it.
----------

What followed after was the bombing of Belgrade and the resistance by the Serbian people while your uncles formed SS Skenderbeg in Serbia's southern province.
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

Sure, the Nazi's bombed cities all over Yugoslavia when they attacked and that was followed by resistance of the Albanian, Croat, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Bosniak, Serb and Slovene people who made up Yugoslavia.

As, for me, I did not have any uncles who were alive during WW2, so it's not clear what you're talking about!
----------

You claimed that the office which signed the agreement was the Prime Minister of Serbia. WRONG! This office did not exist in the 1940s.
(Ari Gold, 2 July 2017 21:05)

I never wrote anything about the "Prime Minister of Serbia". Nonetheless, I'm glad that you finally learned, at least, one fact, i.e. that the office of the Prime Minister of Serbia id not exist before the German occupation of Yugoslavia.

Jugoslavija

According to Fomenko Dmitry I Ivanovic (Donskoy) aka Sultan Murat I (father of Vasili I (Bayazed) aka Konstantine I the Great is most likely burried in Geeze (Kazak) Valley in the Imerial Cemetery where all the Great Khans were mumified, delivered over the Styx River (Mediterranien) and burries as Pharaohs. Yet Napoleon in 1798 and then the Brits in 1811 destroyed most of the tombs and their real dead bodies can merely be identified.

In the Russian history you will find qiute a few words about Dmitry's death ("In 1389 Kniaz Dmitry died"). No details but "the Greek Archbishop of Trabesund served the burial services". According to Fomenko the priest was inside the horde and they had no time to deliver the dead body to Veliki Novgorod where the World Patriarch (also Greek) lived or to the Sergieva Lavra where Dmitry's Godfather Sergy Radonezhski lived.

Monuments you talk about could quite be built on their death places especially if they were controlled by the Ottomans who all were Rus/Romey Rjurikovici and were members of the same family and dynasty. According to Fomenko soon after the Kulikovo Battle of 1380 Great Khan Dmitry has abandoned Rus for Jerusalem and was never back again. His descendants ruled the empire from there that split the Rjurikovici and their joint horde under Mehmet II (Prophet Mohammad) seized Jerusalem/Tsargrad in 1453. After that relations with mainland Rus became good for 200 years.

Go tell Fomenko to take a trip to the Tomb of Sultan Murad I near Pristina which was mentioned by Evilya Celebi in 1660. The monument was built by Murad I sone Bayezid I, the first example of Ottoman architecture in Kosovo Polje.
(Jugoslavija, 30 June 2017 23:13)


Celebi was the title that the first Sultans liked to use to show the place where they originated from in Cheliabinsk Region of the South Urals. Later they gave the title only to their sons and it used to sound like SHAH ZADE MURAT CELEBI SULTAN. Of cource all of them were Rus and they spoke only Rus and Turkic. Later most respected scientists and mullahs of the same origin were called Celebi too.

As far as I know Kosovo Polje has no signs of a big battle in this place. Initially I believed the local legends about the battle. But then I asked myself why should Serbs use Kos instead of Drozd ? Then i deceded that Kosovo must mean Hayfield from Rus word КОСИТЬ. But it looked strange too because in the middle ages toponymals were given with one aim only - to show the property of the lands. So i came to thinking the the real meaning is COSSACK FIELD. Don't forget that the middle ages it was mentioned only in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_Chronicle_of_Ivan_the_Terrible

adi_bucharest

Of course GDP PPP is important. Purchasing Power Parity. What better way to establish a nation's wealth than looking at the purchasing power per capita of the average citizen? Of course, it is not an exact science, but it does give the average person a clue as to the living standards of the average citizen of a given country.

Wages are important, but who cares what your wages are if the cost of living in your country is high and you cannot afford the same quality of life as a person living in a country where the wages are lower, but the cost of living is even lower? Who lives better?

Romania has a long way o go. It has come a long way since the early 90's, but it is still not in the position to overtake the CEE countries that already had a headstart at the fall of communism.