107

Friday, 21.04.2017.

09:38

Greater Albania must include Presevo, and Nis, says mayor

The EU, the US and Britain will be "directly responsible for the consequences" if they fail to react to the latest statements by Albanian politicians.

Izvor: Beta

Greater Albania must include Presevo, and Nis, says mayor IMAGE SOURCE
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107 Komentari

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

But saying they do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity, they do speak a form of Albanian,
These are not valid arguments. It is quite clear by now that all you are interested in me is accepting that Arvanites are Albanians despite the fact that they are against such inclusion and instead they declare themselves as a population of Romanized Geeks not "current Albanians".I did say in my post below that there isn’t a modern historian who confirms beyond any doubts that Albanians are connected to ancient populations. Greek Byzantine historians hardly mention the Albanians and when they do it’s after the 11th century AD.Even Malcolm the Albanian’s favourite historian ends his diatribe with a statement “ I am bewildered when and where Albanians came from”.

All of the questions of the Arvanites are sensitive to Greeks because the majority

You are simply wrong, if not biased: Greece does accept the right of its citizens to self-determination on an individual level alongside admitting the existence of certain minorities with 'legal' status; in other words, Greece admits the existence of a Muslim minority in Greek Thrace, made up of Turks, Bulgarian-speaking Pomaks and Gypsies, as stated in the international Lausanne Treaty.Arvanites they’ve been to Greece since the 13-14th century when there was no Greek nation and Greece was occupied either by the Venecians or Ottomans.Therefore,there was an osmosis between native Greeks and Arvanites as one population..

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J

pre 7 godina

Leonidas, the majority is not this forum. Travel is deadly to bias. Visit Albania sometimes. Meet people form opinions.

Second, I'm not arguing against the Arvanites identifying as Greeks in the last 100 or 200 years or even 300 years.I'm arguing against the idea that Greeks espouse that the Arvanites even though they speak a form of Albanian do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity. Likewise, nobody questions the Arbereshe being Italian. But saying they do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity, they do speak a form of Albanian, it's just nonsense.
Third, former Greek ministers and Presidents spoke "arvanitika" at home. Yet they identified with the Greek culture and nation. Point is, one can originate from one ethnicity and as generations pass identity with another ethnicity. The two are not mutually exclusive.

All of the questions of the Arvanites are sensitive to Greeks because the majority I've come across believe there are no other ethicities/minorities living in Greece. That's also nonsense. With all the wars through history in the Balkans, there was no village that ended up on the Greek side other border? Only Greeks ended up on the Albanian side? That line of logic is so bad, it's comical. It's why Greeks take this extreeme view that the Arvanite MUST have started only as Greeks otherwise we've gotta admit we've got minorities among us. This is stupid too. If they identify as Greek today you don't have to, but don't deny the roots based on politics.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

I don't subscribe to Greeks having no connection to ancient Greeks.

You’re probably of a rare Albanian breed to say that because Albanians not only don’t believe that Greeks have anything to do with ancient Greece-in fact virtually all Albanian posters here argue that Greeks stole the Albanian history and converted it into Greek-they also believe that Greeks have never been in Southern Albania. Those who claim to be Greeks are Albanians and on the payroll of the Greek government. Not even Enver Hoxha would’ve made such a claim.

but what you wrote about the Arvanites is total nonsense.

As a Greek born ,raised and schooled in Greece i know that it was insulting to call an Arvanite school mate Albanian.This is probably due to the fact they were raised as Greeks and they had the Greek national conscience. Remember what Marcos Botsaris said “As a Greek i cannot feel free where the British flag flies”.As to the language,Greek was the only language they spoke.

You're being intellectually dishonest,

I think Albanians are dishonest for trying to force a false identity on Arvanites.They consider their ancestors Greek,their traditions Greek and their names were Greek.A number of them gave their properties to the Greek cause and were massacred by the very Albanians that now claim them as their own.Virtually all muslim Albanians fought by the side of the Ottomans until 1913 and did commit horrendous crimes by trying to stop Greek independence.

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J

pre 7 godina

The term Arvanitis is referring to the Greek orthodox people from Souli, Hydra, Spetsai and to groups of inhabitants in Mesogeia and stems from an entirely different root. In particular, from the word Arvanon , a toponym of N. Epirus mentioned, already since 11th century, in the texts of Anna Komnini. That is from Arvanon, from the Hellenic N. Epirus, Greek population speaking Arvanitika migrated down to towns and islands and Greece since the 14th century and integrated with the rest of the Greek population.The overwhelming muslim population of Albania joined the Ottoman Turks in their wars against the Greeks.Lets remind ourselves of the wars Ali Pasha contacted against Souli and how many Souliotes Greeks died in the process.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 19:26)

I don't subscribe to Greeks having no connection to ancient Greeks but what you wrote about the Arvanites is total nonsense. An Arvanite and an Albanian even today can communicate in Albanian.Very easily in fact. You're placing language as the thing that makes up nations then you're somehow saying Arvanites are Greeks even though their language is not Greek. You're being intellectually dishonest, and that's because of blind nationalism. The Italians recognize the Arbereshe as having Albanian roots. The Greeks don't recognize the Arvanite. You can take an Arbereshe and an Arvanite and they can easily communicate with each other; yet the Arvanite somehow has no Albanian roots. C'mon dude; lay off the pipe.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

You have been asked twice (and counting) and you keep avoid answering to a simple question: is there ONE SINGLE ANCIENT text that actually exists, mentioning the Greeks dwelling the Balkans prior to 19 century? You can admit there's none, OR you can provide one. One would be enough..

Plato’s tetralogies is the oldest surviving manuscript but there are also approximately 6000 Greek manuscripts of the new testament. Historians agree on the internal consistency of the New Testament documents which is about 99.5% textually pure. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

What you and other Albanian posters on this site fail to understand is what defines a nation is the language.Well the Greek language has been alive and kicking through the ancient times and Byzantium into modern Greece.The basis of modern Greek is the ancient language with the same alphabet.There are hundreds of books written by Greek Byzantine historians.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

You have been asked twice (and counting) and you keep avoid answering to a simple question: is there ONE SINGLE ANCIENT text that actually exists, mentioning the Greeks dwelling the Balkans prior to 19 century? You can admit there's none, OR you can provide one. One would be enough...

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

One of the things about me is that I focus on the arguments that someone presents and not the person; also known as playing the ball not the man. Of course I’m not perfect but I do make an effort to stay civil in what I write and I expect the same from my interlocutors who leave a comment.
Experience has taught me that when Albanians lose an argument-not that they had any- resort to swearing and name calling .As Socrates once said ““When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

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Joni

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Greeks are partially European because you are mixed with Albanians.
Is easy to see it when you visit Greece. Sorry that's the truth.

For exmp. i find very interesting this:
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/rosetta.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone
Arvanites … Greeks???
Here you have the Arvanites in Greece, protecting their own nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristeidis_Kollias
https://youtu.be/j3IXS2R7uJQ
One of me most great man who make shushhhh… the Greeks. What Greeks had to tell to this Arvanite? My ancestors fought for Greece independence but we are Albanians. All Greece have is thanks to Albanians.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

We don't have idiots like in Greece (GOLDEN DAWN) that hold rallies in their honor, commemorate WWII-era war criminals, organize political parties that uphold those beliefs, target minorities and other perceived undesirables as scapegoat for all their country's problems, and be called out by the HUMAN RIGHTS Center for fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance. Whatever collaborators that existed in Albania (and other countries in Balkans mind you) during that time, pales in comparison to anything coming out of Greece. Then or now.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas the lying lion = big malaka

Illyrians were in the Balkans long before Hellenes , and so on. So, it's not clear what point you're trying to make, beside the academic discussion about the history of the Balkans.

You pseudogreeks lie to yourselves so much. YOU ARE NOT HELLENES. Albanians was in the Balkans LONG before you. Maybe if you didn't spend so much time lying to yourselves you can see how worthless every piece of land becomes once you occupy it. Greece produces nothing only bankruptcy. Chameria or south Epirus has become a Greek colony under your illegal occupation. Come back to reality.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The term Arvanitis is referring to the Greek orthodox people from Souli, Hydra, Spetsai and to groups of inhabitants in Mesogeia and stems from an entirely different root. In particular, from the word Arvanon , a toponym of N. Epirus mentioned, already since 11th century, in the texts of Anna Komnini. That is from Arvanon, from the Hellenic N. Epirus, Greek population speaking Arvanitika migrated down to towns and islands and Greece since the 14th century and integrated with the rest of the Greek population.The overwhelming muslim population of Albania joined the Ottoman Turks in their wars against the Greeks.Lets remind ourselves of the wars Ali Pasha contacted against Souli and how many Souliotes Greeks died in the process.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Zervas bandits were the most sadistic and depraved collaborationist movement in German occupied Europe.

That’s absolute b....ks.Zervas was a Souliote officer of the Greek army and he was a fanatic Venizelist (Liberal Partry) and served with distinction during the Balkan wars.After the occupation of Greece by Germany and Italy he and other officers of the Greek army formed EDES whose sole purpose was to fight against the occupying forces of Germany and Italy and the abolition of the monarchy. His EDES forces were one of the main participants in the blow up of the Gorgopotamos bridge. He was under the operational control of the British and never collaborated with the Germans –unlike your Cham pals.In restrospect,i think his bigger mistake was the expulsion of Chams.He should have arrested them and put them on trial for the death of more than 3000 Greeks and Jews.The sentence for enemy collaborators in Europe was the ultimate sentence.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek?

I will leave you with 2 quotes.

Alexander's own words are quoted as: "Men of Athens... Had I not greatly AT HEART the common welfare of GREECE I should not have come to tell you; BUT I AM MYSELF GREEK BY DESCENT, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery.... If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the GREEK CAUSE, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am ALEXANDER of MACEDON."
[Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45, translated by G.Rawlinson]

"It should be noted that there is NO CONNECTION between the Macedonians of the time of Alexander the Great who were a GREEK tribe and today's
so-called 'macedonians' of the 'Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia' or
FYROM, who are of SLAVIC origin and related to BULGARIANS." -
David H Levinson, 'The Encyclopaedia of Ancient Cultures'

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

don't waste words!
simply read this book.

[link]
(rote,

Why do you waste yours? Why don't you take a trip to Turkey and read their recorded history.It's only 22 volumes.When you finish you can visit the national museum and see the thousands of Ottoman inscriptions and also Ottoman coinage (piastras and Liras).Each coin bears the head of the Sultan and the date it was minted.I was told there are more than 300 coins each reflecting a different period. When you finish all those tasks you come back and report whether Fomenko is still right.

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rote

pre 7 godina

not Fomenko's pseudo-history.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 13:04)

don't waste words!
simply read this book.

http://chronologia.org/en/car_slav/index.html

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Joni

pre 7 godina

(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 11:23)

Bla bla blaaa…. I asked to you a simple question Leonidas!

Why Greeks were living in Middle East Leonidas?
Are you Middle Eastern people?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

There is no doubt nevertheless that the Illyrains, Thracians, and Macedonians were non-Greeks, or in the words of the ancient Greeks, "barbarians", which literally means people who spoke other non-Greek languages. 2. Macedonia became a world power when the Macedonian king Philip II conquered Thrace, greater part of Illyria, and the whole of Greece (except Sparta). At the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the Macedonian army destroyed the united Greek army, and put an end to Greek freedom and ancient Greek history. To secure the Macedonian conquest, Macedonian garrisons were established in the Greek cities, just like they were established in Thrace and Illyria. 3. Alexander the Great (336-323 BC), Philip II's son, took the Macedonian armies even further and conquered the Persian Empire, making Macedonia the largest and most powerful nation in the world for centuries to come. In his army next to the Macedonians, he utilized also troops from the Balkan nations that his father Philip II had conquered - Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The Greeks in the Macedonian army, however, were commanded by Macedonians, their contribution in the conquest was insignificant and miniscule, and modern historiography calls them nothing but Macedonian "hostages" who would ensure a good behavior of their friends and families back in Greece (Peter Green, Urlich Wilcken, Ernst Badian, Eugene Borza, A.B. Bosworth). Aware that the Greeks despised the Macedonians, To be continued

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Zervas bandits were the most sadistic and depraved collaborationist movement in German occupied Europe. For sheer brutality, no other group came anywhere near them. They enjoyed torturing their victims. Even the Nazis couldn't stomach them, and that's saying something. Other groups committed reactionary crimes yes, but for organised premeditated atrocities the Zervas criminals were in a league of their own. They even had a concentration camp specifically for children. I am sure that most ordinary Greeks find their legacy revolting, and would rather consign them to their darkest period of history. Decent Greeks should have been out demonstrating against these cretins.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas


Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek? 1. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, separate from their neighbors, the ancient Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The ancient Greek and Roman historians tell us that the Macedonians spoke a separate Macedonian language and had their own customs, culture, and traditions. Archeological discoveries confirm that the material culture of the Macedonians also defer greatly from all of their neighbors, and it is by far more superior in artistry (gold, paintings, weapons, mosaics) then anything found in contemporary Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. The texts of the ancient writers distinguish the Macedonians from the ancient Greeks, just like they distinguish the Romans and the Carthaginians. Yet, like the other non-Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, and Thracians, the Macedonian high society also used the Greek language along with Macedonian. Greek was spoken by the nobility of many different ancient nations, just like French was spoken in the 19th century (at the German and Russian courts for example). Unfortunately there are only about 150 glosses that have survived of the ancient Macedonian language (most of them with no relation whatsoever with ancient Greek), and like ancient Carthaginian, Illyrian, and Thracian, it can not be reconstructed.To be continued

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

I am fed up with the fairy tales with zreo proof that you believe in. So i'll be giving you only links that unmask your german made history.

[link]
[link]
(rote,

The problem is yours not mine. The whole world knows that Jesus died through crucifixion at the age of 33 whereas Andronikos-ancient Greek name meaning conqueror over men-was still sh----ng his various mistresses until his terrible death at the age of 67.This is verified by the 40 odd Greek Byzantine historians and the historical records held at Greek monasteries at Athos.
That's the main difference between you and myself.Trying to decipher ancient history one has to use the available tools at his disposal ie historiography and archaeology not Fomenko's pseudo-history.

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observing

pre 7 godina

Albanians are trouble makers. Not civilized people. They even come to Serbian sites to harass. Even primitive people didn't harass!

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians

Another Albanian lie another threat. Beginning in the 7th century BC, Greek cities were established on the Illyrian coast. The most important were Apollonia, Avlona ( Vlorë),Epidamnos (Durrës), and Lissus ( Lezhë). The rediscovered Greek city of Buthrotum (Ancient Greek: Βουθρωτόν, Vouthrotón) (Butrint), is probably more significant today than it was when Julius Caesar used it as a provisions depot for his troops during his campaigns in the 1st century BC.Not to mention the ancient city of Nikopolis or the sanctuary of Dodoni located in the modernCity of Ioannina prefecture.
As regards to your claims that Epirus is already in Albanian hands the truth is no Albanian is allowed to settle in the area. As to your threats, lets remind ourselves what happened in the last two occasions Albanians took part against the Greeks.In the battle of Bizani-the biggest battle of the Balkan war-the combined forces of the Ottoman Turks-Albanians were defeated and chased to Albania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bizani
It was the French and the British that saved them because they wanted to keep Italy within their Alliance.
The second occasion was in 1940 when the combined Italian and Albanian forces were chased up To Tepeleni. This time it was the Germans who saved their Italian and Albanian poodles.Next time you take arms against Greece we’ll chase you all the way to Tirana and there won’t be any mercy.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

I am fed up with the fairy tales with zreo proof that you believe in. So i'll be giving you only links that unmask your german made history.

http://chronologia.org/en/car_slav/czar02_28.html
http://chronologia.org/en/seven/chronology1.html

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

why do you choose weak sparring partners ?
there's only one man on this site who can destroy all your tales
are you ready ?
(rote, 24 April

Rote, I had a bad taste of your conspiratorial and anti-Greek mindset on our last exchange, so I know it is hardly any use talking to you on any issue in a sober manner.Your line of thinking involves such wild statements -amongst others-such as the past existence of Albanian empires or Jesus was in fact the Byzantine emperor Andronikos etc.. I do not share any of those views and lets leave it to that.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Socrates http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Socrates+
Prodicus http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=+Prodicus
Thucydides http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Thucydides+
Demosthenes http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=+Demosthenes

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Do we need to go through another refresher course on Greeks being more Turkish than anyone? And what do you mean dare to do anything? Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians.
You probably need a refresher course in being turko-albanian.You’ve lived with them for 500 years in Muslim villages and mingled with them. Here is a quote by British Colonel Chris Woodhouse, head of the Allied Military Mission in Greece during the Axis occupation on your beloved Chams.,
"Chams are racially part Turk, art Albanian.In 1941-3 they collaborated with Italians & Germans, making the organization of guerilla resistance in that area difficult..Zervas encouraged by the Allied Mission under myself, chased them out of their homes in 1944 in order to facilitate operations against the enemy. They mostly took refuge in Albania, where they were not popular either. Their eviction from Greece was bloodily carried out, owing the usual vendetta spirit, which was fed by many brutalities committed by the Chams in league with the Italians.The Chams deserved what they got, but Zervas' methods were pretty bad - or rather, his subordinate officers got out of hand. The result has been in effect a shift of populations, removing an unwanted minority from Greek soil. Perhaps it would be best to leave things at that”.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

There is no real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Macedonians.

The usual Albanian and Fyromian propaganda which is exposed by the link below.

http://history-of-macedonia.com/2009/08/06/ottoman-census-of-hilmi-pasha-1904/

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The Albanians are the descendants of the late Illyrian and Macedonian tribes which inhabited this part of Europe long before the arrival of Serbs,

Albanian nationalists have always cherished the myth of a link between Albanians and Illyrians. It is very popular because it suggests that Albanians descend from an ancient people who populated the Balkans long before the Slavs and therefore provide a good excuse to steal land from their neighbours. The Austrian linguists Schumaker and Massinger who studied the few Illyrian texts and the Albanian language have already confirmed that Albanians have nothing to do with Illyrians. Matzinger points put that when the few surviving fragments of Illyrian and Albanian are compared, they have almost nothing in common.
“The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.” So much for your Illyrian ancestry.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

There is no such thing as "greekness" of Macedonia. This sounds like something a child would say. The idea that no historians deny the greekness of macedonia is just bullshit. What kind of "greekness" did Macedonia have?

Ancient Macedonians were linguistically Greek (at least the upper classes, who were the actual Macedonians and part of the population; the rest were Paeonians, but spoke a NW Greek dialect (close to Doric). Later on (i.e. in the time of Philip and Alexander) they adopted the primarily Atttic-based Koine Greek and the Athens-originating culture like most other Greeks did at the time.
If you want to convince me (and the world) that Phillip was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian, first you have to convince me (and the world) that:
1. Aristogeiton was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian
2.Demosthenes was not Greek because Aeschines called him a barbarian
3. The Eleans were not Greek because Stratonicus called them barbarians
4. The Thessalians were not Greek because Hegesander called them barbarians.
5. The Aeoleans were not Greek because Prodicus called them barbarians.
6. The Epirotes are not Greek because Thucydides called them barbarians.
7. Strepsiades was not Greek because Socrates called him a barbarian.
If you don't know WTF I'm talking about you can open some decent history book read and come back to me.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

why do you choose weak sparring partners ?
there's only one man on this site who can destroy all your tales
are you ready ?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

franknwalters


Macedonia has NEVER in history been part of any type of country or nation called as "Greece".

On the other hand, the Albanians are categorized by various authors as descendant of Illyrians and Macedonians a distinct ethnic and linguistic group inhabiting the Balkans at least 300 years before the creation of the modern Greek state, and before the advent of communism. So even if Albanians did arrive in the 10th century, that still places them on the map long before anything called as "Greek" or "Greece".

History and Historians in the Nineteenth Century - “General interest was first aroused by a controversy as to the racial derivation of the modern Greeks. The war of independence had won the sympathy of Europe; and it was a rude shock both to Greece and to her champions when Fallmerayer announced that her inhabitants were virtually Slavs. The race of Hellenes, he declares in his ‘History of Morea’ was rooted out and Athens was unoccupied from the sixth to the tenth century.

And to further emphasize: Politics in Modern Greece - “The term ‘Greek’ differentiates the language spoken by inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

“The term ‘Greek’ differentiates
the language spoken by
inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding
countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

Politics in Modern Greece, Keith R. Legg, page 86

You see? at a period of history when the Albanians were already speaking their own language, and using their own endonyms, the modern Greek state was still trying to figure out from which origins they came from and from which language and name they should use.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas : So Polybius who was born in 220BC and Ptolemy who was born around 100 AD were able to predict the future and assign the Albanians as natives in the Byzantine era.


Polybius http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Polybius

Ptolemy http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Ptolemy++

PS - 1 no written sources older than 900 years are available and all of them are copies of some vanished copies ...

PS - 2 could you please give us sources other than the german and polish ones ? because we know that all your current history was written by the germans in 19 century and they decided who will be greeks and who will be albanians and who will be macedonians ... read more about henrich schliemann and the kind

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

There is no such thing as "greekness" of Macedonia. This sounds like something a child would say. The idea that no historians deny the greekness of macedonia is just bullshit. What kind of "greekness" did Macedonia have?

The reality is that Macedonians did not speak greek or self identify as greeks. There is no real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Macedonians. For that matter, there isn't even real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Hellens, Macedonia is the last thing that would be considered as a legitimate argument for greeks.

We still have numerous pieces of works from historians and authors from the last 300 years or so which have all confidently placed Albanians as the natives of Illyria and Macedonia.

This is at a time when the modern Greeks didn't even have their own ethnic name used by the population. The Albanians are mentioned by name since at least the 2nd century B.C as living in the city of Albanopolis

You can repeatedly troll all you want ( part of your trolling MO), its still not going to change the fact that there is no ancient reference to "greeks" as a people or nation in the southern European Peninsula until after the late 19th century. What exactly do you think you can prove here ?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

There is no such thing as Albanians migrating into the Balkans from any other regions and there isn't any type of historical evidence that supports this idea. This propaganda is product of only some small political groups in Servia, Greece and Yugoslav inhabited Macedonia. The quote by Plutarch doesn't speak of any real known people called as "Albanians" from the Caucasus region. And Alfred Artaud never denies Albanians as the indigenous population of Illyria and Epiri.

The Albanians are the descendants of the late Illyrian and Macedonian tribes which inhabited this part of Europe long before the arrival of Serbs, Turks and romioi rum Greeks. No historian or writer of histories have ever denied this reality.

The only recorded migrations we have of the Albanians is the illegal forced migrations carried out by Servia Turkey and Greece against the native populations of Macedonia, Illyria and Epiri. Your romioi rum Greek history is built from the forced expulsion of the natives and total destruction of the ancient culture.

You think you can emphasize something here on Asia and migrations?? Well that's where your romi-Greek heritage comes from...Anatolia Minor Asia. There was no mention of any Greek tribe or people inhabiting Europe before the late 19th century. The Creek sporadic arrival is well documented with the population exchanges between Turkey and modern day Greece.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

-Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945)”, Volume II.
“It is funny but also sad, to see a social gathering of different Greeks, that is to say Chiots, Cretans, Albanians, Byzantines, Orientals, Ionian islanders and others, where upon the one mixes in Turkish words, the other Italian ones, the other Albanian ones, and in the same gathering, while they are all Greek, they cannot understand each other without the use of a translation or an explanation of each word as it is uttered, with the gathering thus turning into a Babel.”

-Politics in Modern Greece” by Keith R. Legg on page 86, “The term ‘Greek’ differentiates the language spoken by inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

Do you understand what this last quote is trying to express? it means that Greeks didn't even have their own ethnic name before modern Greece was created.

its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate the majority of ancient names and toponyms...that's why the Greek government had invested so much on deliberately changing the native toponyms across the modern Greece landscape.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Do we need to go through another refresher course on Greeks being more Turkish than anyone? And what do you mean dare to do anything? Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians, That's why the Greek government spent millions of tax payer revenue on trying to bribe the local inhabitants into self identifying as "Greeks". and don't forget that the natives have a much more robust birthrate than the Turkogreeks in these regions. Within 2 or 3 generations, you wont even know what is Epiri-Cameria as Greeks had no critical link to Epirus before the 19thcentury.

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J

pre 7 godina

It breaks my heart to see so much hatred and blind nationalism displayed by Albanians on this forum, why did you allow your humanity to be poisoned by nationalism?
(Tearce, 24 April 2017 07:23)

Last time I checked the remains of Albanian babies where uncovered from mass graves under multistorey buildings in Serbia. If you want to talk about blind nationalism and hate you should start with that.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The work from Polybius and Ptolemy mentioning Albanians as the natives during the byzantine period,
So Polybius who was born in 220BC and Ptolemy who was born around 100 AD were able to predict the future and assign the Albanians as natives in the Byzantine era. Nice try and it does confirm the ignorance of Albanian posters on this site.
There was no mention of "Greeks" as an ethnic group anywhere in Europe prior to the late 19th century.
Well,the following world historians do not share your view.
1.Aug.Heisenberg: "Byzantium is the christianised Roman state of the Greek nation (Staat und Gesellschaft des byzantinischen Reiches,p364)
2.Talbot Rice: "Byzantium has to be studied as a chapter of the long history of τhe Greek civilisation."
3: Ostrogorsky: "Byzantium,it always remained loyal to the Greek political ideals, and traditions of a Medieval Greek state." (History of the Byzantine state,p.217)
4: Gyula Moravscik: He says that it is preferable to talk about Greekology rather than Byzantinology (Byzantion, Vol.25 (1965) p. 291-301)
5Sture Linner: "The Byzantines... were always conscious of their Greek past" (History of the Byzantine civilisation, p. 219)
6Kurt Weitzmann. He writes about "The Greek blood in the veins of the Byzantines" (Greek mythology in Byzantine Art, p.207)
7 N. David: The Byzantine empire "in 6th century was more Greek than Roman" (p.23) and that Byzantine civilisation is a Greek spiritual world (p. 147 in the evolution of the middle ages)

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Though we have no diplomatic relations I have to mind you as there's no evidence of conquests other than the Slavic invasion of the Migration Period of 4-6 centuries = 14-16 of Scaliger Petavius. In 17-19 centuries the colonization of the world including of the Balkans was exposed as multiple different invasions. They used real names of the Slavic tribes but sent them to different ages and countries. Yet 1000k of facts, names, toponymals have survived on every continent. Promice not to talk about Greece if you choose any continent and ask me to give you Slavic toponymals there. You may even chose 2-3 continents where you don't expect to see our footprints. By the way Greek Brahmans were inside our every horde.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Albanians are the descendants of ancient Ilyrian and Macedonian tribes ...
(BLACK EAGLE, 24 April 2017 17:41)

You started so well that i immediately gave you my "like" but then you've spoiled it all ... Now you give a single reliable sourse running that the two mentioned Slavic peoples were not Slavic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zSsw0LQMw

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

You are still trolling and obsessing over things that you yourself can not answer? It's a comical situation for someone like you to be sitting here trying to question someone elses heritage and history, while you don't even know your own heritage or history. You still haven't provided any ancient text that mention "Greeks' as an ethnic group prior to the 19th century. There was no mention of "Greeks" as an ethnic group anywhere in Europe prior to the late 19th century.

The work from Polybius and Ptolemy, along with the numerous chronicles mentioning Albanians as the natives during the byzantine period, is more than enough for any normal person to understand and conclude the historical pattern of ethnic groups.

The Albanians are the descendants of ancient Ilyrian and Macedonian tribes and you already know better than anyone else that this is the reality. But You are behaving the exact same way that fyrom Slavs behave with trying to distort European history using a modern political agenda. There are no international scholars or historians supporting the forums agenda of Greek golden dawn servian chetnik fyromian propaganda against the natives.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Its not a coincidence that the Albanoi tribe of illyrians lived in the same regions as Albanians inhabit today

Find me a modern historian who subscribe to such nonsense.Illyrians re not synonymous with Albanians..Illyrians and Albanians are different people. The fact is that the Balkans and the Greek peninsula were colonized by many, many different peoples during the late antiquity and the early middle-ages. Slavs, magyars, all these eastern peoples moved into these regions, settled and mixed with the already-present Hellenes and Illyrians.

Its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate ancient scripts and toponyms especially from the Homeric era.

What gives credence the Greeks claim to antiquity is the survival of a continuous literary tradition for three and a half millennia, from the earliest Linear B clay tablets baked on Crete to the modern Greek alphabet that has been in use for thousands of years. This continuity lends credence to Greek claims. A single literate civilization has survived.Albanians-on the other hand-didn’t have an alphabet until the 1920s.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Joni
I guessed so. Cowards are always scared of the truth.You’re scared to find out of the Muslim Colonization of the Balkans(Fyrom,Kosovo,Bosnia) which consisted of Turks and Turcic people arriving in the area into their hundredths of thousands and settling in Christian areas.You are scared also to find out about the intense Albanian colonization of Fyrom from the end of the 18th century to the first half of the 19th century.So much for being indigenous to Fyrom.
With regard to your Cham pals-Chronologically speaking-Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians name it "Chameria". Epirus was known as such since Odysseus's era, if not earlier, Chameria was a term invented when the Albanians settled in the region, during the Ottoman times.
When the Roman invasion of Ancient Greece occurred, the Romans didn't fight any Chams",but the three native tribes of Epirus:The Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians. When the Normans attacked the Byzantines in Dyrrhachium in 1081 did you see any Albanians around or taking part in the ensuing battle?
Instead you continue with your far -fetched claims of Illyrian descent and being indigenous to the region which have become masks for greater Albania. Modern Albania is as much of an artificial creation as Fyrom without a history It emerged as an Austro-Hungarian project in 1913 and ever since Albanians is dependent on outside assistance to survive. Your entire history before 1913 can be written in less than 100 pages.

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sj

pre 7 godina

Leonidhas my deearrr !
I have’nt why to go in Istanbul because i have Athens History University nearby. Here you have !
[link]
[link]
I think Greeks need to go in Turkey to understand why Orthodox Middle Eastern Greeks were living in Turkey before that they were exchanged with Albanian white people. You just mixed yourself - so is to see you is Turk or Middle Eastern here. Have you been in Thessaloniki ? How did they look Leonidhas ?? Eeee ? Are you from Thessaloniky ?
[link]

And Turko – Albanians ?? Hahahahaha ! Like this one i bet ! Best male is considered in Turkey !
[link]
[link]
Wowwwww…, send me in Turkey for the next war.. Eeeheeee !
(Joni, 24 April 2017 12:03)

What are you on?

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sj

pre 7 godina

(BLACK EAGLE, 23 April 2017 23:27)

In the 150 million years of so called Albanian occupation of the Balkans please show me some evidence of that claim. Last I looked there were ruins left by early Greeks, Romans, Turks and even the Serbs, but not even a cave painting by the Albanians.
Earlier this year I had one of your compatriots attach a leaflet with pictures on archaeology found in Albania. He was claiming the pottery and statutes were made by Albanians when in fact it was obvious that the pottery was mostly ancient Greek and some Roman and the same with the statues.
I even had another claim certain words we use today was Albanian which, with once glance, had obviously been derived from classical Greek.
Go to the British Museum in London and spend a day there then come back and tell me all about your occupation of the Balkans. That’s if you can find anything Albanian that goes back to 300BC.
So now we can assume that people like Aristotle, Herodotus or Homer were not Greek but all Albanians? Stop playing with yourself, you will pull it right off.

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Joni

pre 7 godina

Leonidhas my deearrr !
I have’nt why to go in Istanbul because i have Athens History University nearby. Here you have !
https://youtu.be/zNJ8sxOEHfU
https://youtu.be/NBDhUPXNiF0
I think Greeks need to go in Turkey to understand why Orthodox Middle Eastern Greeks were living in Turkey before that they were exchanged with Albanian white people. You just mixed yourself - so is to see you is Turk or Middle Eastern here. Have you been in Thessaloniki ? How did they look Leonidhas ?? Eeee ? Are you from Thessaloniky ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Albanians#Population_exchange_and_appropriation_of_property_.281923.E2.80.931926.29

And Turko – Albanians ?? Hahahahaha ! Like this one i bet ! Best male is considered in Turkey !
https://www.google.al/search?q=KIVANC+TATLUG&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK-bf15LzTAhXCbRQKHccxCvMQsAQINw&biw=1280&bih=894
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%B1van%C3%A7_Tatl%C4%B1tu%C4%9F
Wowwwww…, send me in Turkey for the next war.. Eeeheeee !

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sj

pre 7 godina

The EU and US are losing sleep right now after reading such a statement. How are the Albanians going to achieve taking over right up to Nis?

The Communists used to adopt this tactic. During the warmer months out comes the grand plans to wave to the populace to cool them down while in winter they went back into the draw as its too cold to wave them around.
Why do they allow the Albanians to make such statements when the west would scream from the top of Mount Everest if the Serbs mentioned a greater Serbia, simple its a little payback for supporting the west, but the west knows it all hot air and nothing else.

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Tearce

pre 7 godina

It breaks my heart to see so much hatred and blind nationalism displayed by Albanians on this forum, why did you allow your humanity to be poisoned by nationalism?

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100% Croat

pre 7 godina

@ Partizan

The Serbs are the ones that still dreaming.

GS - Never happend and never will.
Krajina - Wiped out in 4 days.
RS- Never to be recognised by int. community.
Kosova- Serbian flag never to be raised in Pristina ever again.
Sandzak- Muslims gaining strength, Mosques all over southern Serbia.
The Balkan region consider Serbs to be at a level where the Roma are.
The Serbs are an embarrassment to the so called Balkan region.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas
Paranoia is when you as a modern romi greek try to pretend that Albanians are not the indigenous people because of some weird complex you have developed together with your Yugoslav-fyrom-serb political compatriots.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Is there any ancient text that mentions Greeks dwelling in the Balkans or even regions like Morea? No, there isn't. So i don't know what you think you are going on about. But we do have records of Albanians being mentioned as natives of Macedonia and Illyria, hundreds of years before the creation of the modern Greek state and identity.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Its not a coincidence that the Albanoi tribe of illyrians lived in the same regions as Albanians inhabit today. its not a coincidence that "greek" was never mentioned as a tribe of ancient Helens, or any other ancient tribes of Europe.

its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate ancient scripts and toponyms especially from the Homeric era.

It's not a coincidence that Albanians are the people which preserved and still continue to nurture the oldest elements of ancient traditions passed down from generation to generation.

We know you golden dawn Greek Anatolian types, along with your fyromian serv chetnik forums compatriots cant stand this fact and are obsessed with trying to distort European history by any means necessary.

the more you try to lie about Albanian origins, the more the truth will come out for the lack of affinity modern Greeks have with ancient heritage and culture. Your Greek history is intertwined with Albanians whether you like it or not.

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Azir

pre 7 godina

Kent

Try taking your own advice and kindly relocate to your dear Mother Russia who will eagerly accommodate you and your domestic partner...

You live the good life in America that you creatures hate so much but at the same time you worship degenerate Russia...

Go home to Russia Ignorant boy...

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Albanians are Turks

pre 7 godina

Because even Turks have more rights than you have – at least Turks were always there – you even don’t know where you came from, so what you want in Balkan? Hahaha!
(Joni, 22 April 2017 13:48)

I'm pretty certain a good Byzantine Greek would give the Turk a run for his money when questions surrounding who owns the land comes up. Both the Turk and the Albanian belong back in Central Asia.

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LOL

pre 7 godina

I love all the albo-hate here.
(SHQIP 456, 22 April 2017 23:57)

I love all the albo-propaganda. You guys are going into overtime with your delusions, deranged visions of fiction, and hyperbolic chest thumping nationalism far beyond what's normal around here. I'm almost convinced half the pro-albo comments here are from non Albanians deliberately writing this stuff just to keep the flame wars going. I say "almost" convinced because in any other situation, no one would be this stupid and naive in believing what's written. But these are Albanians we're talking about, and Albanians suffer from the biggest national inferiority complex in Europe. Plus, considering B92 is notorious for attracting the worst dregs of Albo-Illyrian Cyber Spamming, and it's almost more pathetic than hilarious the extents you'll go through to sound tough, strong, and important in the world. I really hope some of you are getting paid to waste this much time online, because if there isn't a media-relations firm that hires people to spam the internet, and this is genuinely a gaggle of angry albo dingdongs, you people are even more pathetic than I and many others thought :)

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Nick

pre 7 godina

I'm Serbian I live in Vegas I Kent bilive that the serbs in Serbia are so stupid Serbia is to go to war take cosovo f*ck EU and stay brothers with Russia make seselj president it's the only way Serbia enyway must have a nother war enyway you look at it .. this your wake up call Serbia do it now or you are doomed forever

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

today Greece has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks…
joni
It's pretty obvious from your ignorant comment you haven't got a clue of what you're talking about. No serious world historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA. What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity without ignoring a number of differences with ancient Greece. Unfortunately,Turko-Albanians have nothing else to say than resort to historical myths, and anti-Greek propaganda.
find me a scholar who tell that Albanians came in Balkan
Albanians historical presence in the Balkans is for first time attested in 11th AD century. If there are so many modern historians claiming what you say,then show me at least one such.a modern one, who is still alive and not Albanian or half-Albanian, like that Mathieu Aref.If you really want to expand your knowledge on Balkan history may i suggest you take a trip to Turkey-i am being serious-and spend some time in the national library going through Ottoman history written by the Ottomans themselves and translated by the distinguished Ottoman historian Halil Inancik.If you’re really open-minded you’ll discover your true path which i am afraid is totally inconsistent with your nationalist delusions of grandeur.

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Hank the Tank

pre 7 godina

Joni

You know very well that albanians came with the turks. A mercenary army who came to Europe to help turks in exchange for money and power. If albanians were in the Balkans long before serbs what do you have to show for it? What did you build? There are Serbian churches from the 13th century, where are the albanian ones? Either you are the most incompetent people in the world or you should just admit you came from Kaukasus. If you indeed were the first people in Europe how come you are the shitiest place in Europe? Such s long history and but your still s backward, poor and undeveloped country. Let me guess! Its Serbias fault.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Joni - 2

Axioma is that history is a science (Ha!) of written sources. But in 14 century only Slavs and the Romeys of the Byzantine had grammar and written documents. They survived only in Vatican Library where you can reach only with direct order of the Pope himself. It's a 8 km long tunnel ... So talking about who were the first on the Balkans is like what was first egg or chcken.

Yet there are plenty of direct and indirect facts that let me suppose that your ancestors came to the Balkans in the Migration Period of 4-6 centuries (14-16 of Scaliger-Petavius) within the Great Slavic Horde also known as the Great Roman Empire, Mongo-Tatar, Meagaleon Tartaria, Velikoe Gosudarstvo, Ottoman Porta, India, Great Mogols ect.

Genetically you look like Semite peoples of Dagestan and Chechnia with a big Slavic component. Your ancestors had no writen history of their own like the rest on this planet. There simply was no need in it as well as there was no need in any nations before 17 century. Your story began to appear in 19 century when for the fisrt time some lands were mentioned as Shqiperia.

It happened because your neigboring Greeks broke away and you had to identify yourself somehow. In the Ottoman empire nobody called you Albanians coz the sultans were Albanians themselves while you belonged to 3 (out of 4) different nations of the empire - milliet-i Rum, milliet-i Katolik and milliet-i Muslim.

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Junior999

pre 7 godina

Let's all admit the obvious: Multi-ethnic societies do not work in the balkans. Every person in the Balkans, is a nationalist deep inside. Serbs really want Kosovo back, but without the 2 million Albanians. That's not going to happen. In Bosnia, the idea that the Bosnians, Croats, and Serbs should live together peacefully together is basically a forced marriage, where each party wishes the other didn't exist. In Macedonia, Albanians and Macedonians wish that they didn't have to live together, yet, they are also forced in an arranged marriage. Montenegro breaks away from Serbia, and by all estimates, they are the exact same people! What does this tell you? The superpowers have given and taken land from one party to the other, back and forth, throughout history with no regards to the ethnic habitants of the region. Let's do everyone a favor and admit that each nationality wishes to live separate from each other. Do you really think Macedonians love the idea that 25-30% of their countrymen are Albanian??? Deep inside they hate Albanians and resent them, and secretly wish they did not exist... oh how great Macedonia would be without the Albanians they whisper in their dreams. Do you really think that Republka Srpska Serbs love the fact that they need to get an ok from Bosnians or Croats to celebrate a holiday?

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Junior999

pre 7 godina

(CONT'D). In the end, all of the conflicts are between countries that border eachother. Funny how Albanians have no issues with Croatia??? Or Macedonia has no issue with Montenegro??? That should tell you that a line on a map doesn't necessarily mean that's where the ethnicities are separated. Lets take today's "reality" on the ground and re-draw the borders. Wherever there are Serbs with huge majority bordering Serbia, that land reverts to Serbia (Srpska Repulika, Northern Mitrovica, etc). Wherever there are Majority Albanians bordering Albania, that land reverts to Albania. For smaller populations not bordering their respective "mother" country, a population exchange program can be created where they can choose to move, or continue to stay in the host country as a tiny minority. Tiny minorities are rarely a problem in countries. It's large minority populations that cause friction. Yes, countries will argue, it will be tedious, and no one country will be fully satisfied, but we will be able to move on much faster, and without the cost of war, bloodshed, and destruction fueled by the seemingly instinctual nationalism prevalent in all Balkan nationalities.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Joni - 1

I know that you aren't interested in the truth and your only goal is to mud Serbs and thus try to legalize their lands where every meadow, every church and every village still has it Serbian name. Yet when the curtains are down it must be interesting who indeed we are and where we are from. So I repeat for all that Balkan peoples were formed under the Great Slavic Horde that invaded Europe in 1318 and by 1325 when Gengis Khan was poisoned they occupied eastern and central Europe including Balkans. Gengis Khan was not a name but a title - Khan of all the Khans in Turkic (capo di tutti capi for your besa understanding) while his real name was Georgy Danilovic. It gave name to the new dynasty that ruled the world for several centuries - the Rjurikovici. In Rus Rjurik (Yurik) and Georgy is the same name and you can still call every Georgy as Yury or Yurik. In European history they call him as St.George or Karl I. After his death his younger brother Ivan Danilovic finished the job seizing 100% of Europe and sent troopps to the ME and Asia. He topped all 3 branches of the state power (military, civil and religious) calling himself the Calif. His other Rus name was Batu Khan or Bati Khan that meant Father Khan or Papa Khan but now he is known as Karl II in Europe. In 1340 he died rather young leaving no heritage. He died in Rome - city that he established and where he had lived last years. Vatican was simply his Rus name Bati Khan.

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Partizan

pre 7 godina

To the mayor and all Albanians keep dreaming, and when you wake up you will realise it's just one big dream that will never never happen.

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SHQIP 456

pre 7 godina

I love all the albo-hate here. We must really be shoving our shoes into many people's mouths. So whatever we're doing, it must be right.

O shqipetar, kenaquni me keto komentet urrejtese. Mos debatoni me keta. Matni suksesin tone me nivelin e urrejtjes te tyre.

Pershendetje, dhe boni gallate ketu. Te shofim sa do e publikojne keta komentin.

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Navi

pre 7 godina

We'll create ethnic Albania democratically and peacefully, or let NATO do it for us.
(Avni, 22 April 2017 00:27)

That will never happen, so stop sounding ignorant. NATO won't help you. They'll bomb you. That would be a nice thing to see.

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Navi

pre 7 godina

Again: ignorant it's what you are, ignorant it's your culture ...
The aggression it's coming from the people who in the past 20 years have been involved in war with all their neighbors.
(Albanian American, 22 April 2017 01:20)

You're the ones talking about land grabs, ethnic cleansing, and Greater Albania. You're like Nazis blaming Poles and Jews for getting in your way of fulfilling your fascist dreams. You're the one being ignorant. You're the one with an ignorant culture. Stop embarrassing yourself before you're attacked.

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shkipkurd

pre 7 godina

Albanians came from Middle East. Go back to Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran! Out of Balkan lands, this is no place for those backward troublemakers criminals and thieves and murderers. Just look at their faces! It shows all.

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hass

pre 7 godina

"I heard that there are a few Albanians in Sweden too. Perhaps that should be part of greater Albania. There are far more Serbs in Europe then Albanians. Maybe we should reply in kind this time."

Yes most of these criminals turks live in Malmö. In fact there's so many of them there that they changed the name to MalmA

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Ali Pasha of Ioannina

pre 7 godina

Kosova+Albania= Ethnic Albania

We will unite and so will Presheva valley as well. We are going to take back what we lost! Kosova was Ohly the beginning!

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Joni

pre 7 godina

To Mike!
I’m sorry to break you but there a lot of of scholars who think even that the today Greece has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks…

But find me a scholar who tell that Albanians came in Balkan – try honey!

You know well what all we and Europe, World learn about Serbs – you came in Balkan like INVADERS !
You can't change that!!!! Hehehehe!!

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Joni

pre 7 godina

If Albanians tried to unite into one state, I think they would succeed, however, the name of that state is likely to be called Turkey.
(Zoran, 21 April 2017 10:45)

Oh my dear, I bet that with 41 million Turks who claim the Ottoman empire lands – same as you claim Kosovo – you would be forced to go where you came from!
But wait - ‘where you came from, honey! Siberia, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan???
Because even Turks have more rights than you have – at least Turks were always there – you even don’t know where you came from, so what you want in Balkan? Hahaha!

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Vojvodina

pre 7 godina

Unfortunately, this is a toll for how we treated those people, and as long as we refuse to acknowledge the error of our ways and willingly pay that toll (ie. recognize Kosovo), they will take more and more of our land until Serbia is no more.

We won't save our country with lies and injustice, we will save it with fairness and honesty.

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Just an observer.

pre 7 godina

Albanians are taking over through a war of demographics, which we have launched against the rest of the Balkans for the past 100 years. Soon you will all be a minority in your own countries not because of us, but because of your inability to procreate. A greater Albania is nothing more than original Albania before the powers that be cut it up and gave it to you at the expense of Albanian lives. In regards to Dacic and his comments, don't worry this time the Albanians you'll be facing will be armed just like the Serbs and Russia won't be there to supply you because they're almost broke themselves. The truth is Albanians aren't the ones you should worry about, Croats and Bosniaks are the ones who are a bigger threat to you. As for Albanian politicians they are a complete joke, Albanians could not care about their opinion. We will take our lands back but on our own terms.

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M.B.

pre 7 godina

@Yugoslavian_Loyal
---------------------

For both your comments - my sentiments exactly!

The sh**tty Balkan governments run by sh**tty Balkan politicians would fix all problems so quickly....if only the territories under their control were larger!

Morons!

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Albanian American

pre 7 godina

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker .
(Albanian American, 21 April 2017 19:09)

Because the aggression and war mongering is coming from Albanians not Serbs. Dropping it in Belgrade serves no purpose. Try to pay attention instead of being ignorant of what you're commenting on.
(Navi, 21 April 2017 19:56)

Again: ignorant it's what you are, ignorant it's your culture ...
The aggression it's coming from the people who in the past 20 years have been involved in war with all their neighbors. Hello anybody home...
Belgrade was bombarded twice, you know why ?
Like they say " third time it's the charm " you will get it again tryst me, you been playing with fire yet again

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 18
Avni

pre 7 godina

Hey Serbs, we have learned from you how to NOT do things. We'll create ethnic Albania democratically and peacefully, or let NATO do it for us.

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 19
Yugoslavian_Loyal

pre 7 godina

Ring ring ring

Rama: Hello

Vucic: I need to get these protesters off my back. You need to say something to create a spark.

Rama: Ok, how about i say again Serbia needs to recognise Kosovo.

Vucic: I need something more this time otherwise it won't be enough.

Rama: ou ou ou, i got it. I will talk about Albania/Kosovo as one country.

Vucic: Perfect. Use the word Union just to cover your arse and call Thaci too, his monthly kickback is coming up and plus he owes me for turning the train around.

Preporučujem 37 Ne preporučujem 10
Albanian American

pre 7 godina

(Make Albania Natural Again, 21 April 2017 17:08)

But instead Albanians will have minimum 4 kids , witch means 3 million more in 15-20 yr.
serbs in the other hand will have less kids , like 1 ore none witch means your mortality it's up. Proven fact by the way.
Now that's how you make great Albania 🇦🇱 again

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 12
Prishtina

pre 7 godina

Step by step we will get there,why argue from mardar to niš in 50 year the will be no serbs in those areas serbs will disappear so why barging about war thats stupid just let them hang them self serbs.

This is not my opinion is from your serbs Science said it albanian in 100 year will dominate the balkan you why because serbs don't make kids anymore thats a fact so you internet warriors come down

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 15
Yugoslavian_Loyal

pre 7 godina

He said union, he didn't say country and when pressured internationally he will respond the same way. Politicians are all snakes no matter their blood line.

They use nationalist marks on one hand while robbing you with the other. Politicians of the balkan regions are pure thieves. Little comments like this still get our people reved up for nothing. It shows you the west have us under complete control and will spark a match whenever they decide they need a war here. Doesn't matter which side they take, there are no winners. Serbia and Albania have lost Kosovo. It is and always will be American land now (no matter what a fake title says). Nationalism is the currency in the Balkans and aslong as it is traded and common people are gullible, then war is always at our doorstep. Only question is when the West will let it come in.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 10
Navi

pre 7 godina

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker .
(Albanian American, 21 April 2017 19:09)

Because the aggression and war mongering is coming from Albanians not Serbs. Dropping it in Belgrade serves no purpose. Try to pay attention instead of being ignorant of what you're commenting on.

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 12
cry me a river

pre 7 godina

Been seeing some reference to 'ancient lands' in the Albanian comments. Its funny how not one single scholar in the world thinks that any current society today has an actual link to Illyria. Most evakuate that this term was used as a reference for several types of people living in the Balkans. Maybe the Albanians will go after Narnia next?
(MikeD,

You let your ignorance show so easily. Check the archives of NY Times for starters. There are historians who link the two. It's your job to educate yourself.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 11
Albanian American

pre 7 godina

Navi, 21 April 2017 16:21)

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker . Anyway it's the anniversary of April 1941 , NATO , 18 yr ago so like they say " third time's the charm " 👍

Preporučujem 21 Ne preporučujem 22
Make Albania Natural Again

pre 7 godina

Natural Albania.....

Where no Albanian is left out..
(Azir, 21 April 2017 14:09)

I think this is a great idea, but in order to make Natural Albania, we need to make a few changes:

1. The current State of Albania needs to give its northern port of Skadar to Montenegro, and its southern regions of Epiros to Greece. We will call this Adjusted Albania.

2. All Albanians in the region outside the adjusted State of Albania need to relocate back there within a 90 day period on pain of incarceration by Serbian, Macedonian, Greek, Montenegrin, and Croatian authorities of they don't.

Now that we've realized an Albanian state where no Albanian is left out, we need to make it "natural", which is to say return Albanians to a natural population level since there is nothing natural about deliberately having 15 children.

3. The European Union, in an effort to control the Albanian population, which may get crowded trying trying find living space in Adjusted Albania, needs to strictly enforce a One-Child Policy, with the penalty of forced sterilization on any Albanian who tries to have another child. This should get the population down about 1 to 2 million in about 20 - 30 years, which would be right around the time membership in the EU should be considered.

That, my friend, is what a real Natural Albania should be.

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 20
Hank the Tank

pre 7 godina

Its one think to say albanians will create greater albania and another one to actually do it. How many honestly think they will succeed? Albanians are known to huff and puff but when push comes to shove we all know what they are made of. Islamic state had similar thoughts and we all know what happened. I say let them dream. Thats why they are were they are, nowhere!

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 16
MikeD

pre 7 godina

Been seeing some reference to 'ancient lands' in the Albanian comments. Its funny how not one single scholar in the world thinks that any current society today has an actual link to Illyria. Most evakuate that this term was used as a reference for several types of people living in the Balkans. Maybe the Albanians will go after Narnia next?

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 15
Smart Serb

pre 7 godina

Aziz
You and your family are most probably Greek converts.
You probably have more Jewish blood in you than actual Shiptar.
All this huffing and puffing counts for nothing. Lol
You think Europe likes Shiptars?
They want rid of you ALL therefore give you Kosovo*
No one likes your despicable people and only feel sorry. Greater Albo land is a big dream and nothing more. Love Serbs we are great✌

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 24
Albanian Orthodox

pre 7 godina

Cmon Mr. Dacic dont ne ironic. Nis has nothing to do with Albania, the rest of the names you mentioned are un historic injustice that time will fix no matter how much you shout or you compare it with Armagedon all the West knows now there wont be any long term peace and stability in balcans if you dont give back what you took by force. The blood of the ancients never stops asking and it never will. For you all those names are a point in the map, an economic topic, or even a simple land, for us is something more, its home and nothing is more sacred than that.

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 18
MikeD

pre 7 godina

I heard that there are a few Albanians in Sweden too. Perhaps that should be part of greater Albania. There are far more Serbs in Europe then Albanians. Maybe we should reply in kind this time.

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 18
LOL

pre 7 godina

The paranoia of the thief!
(Joni, 21 April 2017 10:25)

Right you are!

The inferiority complex among Albanians is well known and has been part of your culture since Hoxha gave you one, but this week must have been a national holiday since everyone from Rama, to Thaci, to Musliu, to every deranged, delusional, and dimwitted Albanian dingdong on this site have shown how they are indeed, a pathetic gaggle of paranoid thieves and miscreants. It's almost as if a bunch of you were competing over who would win some sort of prize for Biggest Paranoid Thief in the Balkans.

Preporučujem 21 Ne preporučujem 19
Azir

pre 7 godina

Natural Albania.....

Where no Albanian is left out..

Promoting peace ,reconciliation and stability...,

Non-Slavic in character and aiming for EU and NATO complete membership.

Coward Serbs need not fear us we are the truth.

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 31
Azir

pre 7 godina

Slav Serbs fearing the TRUTH.

It's like having a conversation with a Criminal about JUSTICE...

They squirm about it and hate you for bringing up.

Coward Serbs must man up and accept responsibility for their crimes.

Liberation of all non Serbs will in a way help you reach your goal of having only Serbs in Serbia.

Why occupy non Serbs?

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 24
Gerhard

pre 7 godina

The Albanians are only offering evidence as to why they aren't permitted to have visa free status in Europe. Their misplaced arrogance is proof as to why the West and EU keep them under their thumb.

Preporučujem 31 Ne preporučujem 16
Peter The Rocky Mountains

pre 7 godina

Daciic and his crony gang of thugs are complete idiots!

The fool mentions ulcini and tuzi? We need not take it it already belongs to the Albanian people, we will give our friend Montenegro a piece of the Republic of Kosova!
He then mentions presevo, bujonavc, medvedja, it already belongs to the Albanian nation you moron!
Then he has the nerve of talking about Skopje? You pathetic hermit, Macedonia no longer exsists as this was decided in the last election!
And the nerve he has to involve a NATO member state like Greece in Albanian ally a fellow member of NATO?
That's a easy one, chameria is historically Albanian land and in exchange for it Greece shall receive a large area of eastern defunct FYRM, and Bulgaria shall receive its fare share as well!!!
Go get a life Dacic, your failed plans of a greater and ethnically pure Serbia adopted in the early 1990s is the cause of what shall come to pass shortly!

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 36
Tony (a Brit currently working in Berlin)

pre 7 godina

There will never be a Greater Albania. Just as there will never again be a Roman Empire, a Greater Israel or a Grossdeutsches Reich. And that is good.

Preporučujem 28 Ne preporučujem 22
Free

pre 7 godina

Is there any prize "The most stupid politician in the Balkan"?

Because i`ve noticed a strong rivalry between Serb and Albanian politicians who will be the Nr.1 Idiot.

Till now the absolute winner was Dacic, but now he has rivals it seems.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 16
Yugoslavian_Loyal

pre 7 godina

Ring ring ring

Rama: Hello

Vucic: I need to get these protesters off my back. You need to say something to create a spark.

Rama: Ok, how about i say again Serbia needs to recognise Kosovo.

Vucic: I need something more this time otherwise it won't be enough.

Rama: ou ou ou, i got it. I will talk about Albania/Kosovo as one country.

Vucic: Perfect. Use the word Union just to cover your arse and call Thaci too, his monthly kickback is coming up and plus he owes me for turning the train around.

Preporučujem 37 Ne preporučujem 10
Gerhard

pre 7 godina

The Albanians are only offering evidence as to why they aren't permitted to have visa free status in Europe. Their misplaced arrogance is proof as to why the West and EU keep them under their thumb.

Preporučujem 31 Ne preporučujem 16
Tony (a Brit currently working in Berlin)

pre 7 godina

There will never be a Greater Albania. Just as there will never again be a Roman Empire, a Greater Israel or a Grossdeutsches Reich. And that is good.

Preporučujem 28 Ne preporučujem 22
MikeD

pre 7 godina

I heard that there are a few Albanians in Sweden too. Perhaps that should be part of greater Albania. There are far more Serbs in Europe then Albanians. Maybe we should reply in kind this time.

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 18
Peter The Rocky Mountains

pre 7 godina

Daciic and his crony gang of thugs are complete idiots!

The fool mentions ulcini and tuzi? We need not take it it already belongs to the Albanian people, we will give our friend Montenegro a piece of the Republic of Kosova!
He then mentions presevo, bujonavc, medvedja, it already belongs to the Albanian nation you moron!
Then he has the nerve of talking about Skopje? You pathetic hermit, Macedonia no longer exsists as this was decided in the last election!
And the nerve he has to involve a NATO member state like Greece in Albanian ally a fellow member of NATO?
That's a easy one, chameria is historically Albanian land and in exchange for it Greece shall receive a large area of eastern defunct FYRM, and Bulgaria shall receive its fare share as well!!!
Go get a life Dacic, your failed plans of a greater and ethnically pure Serbia adopted in the early 1990s is the cause of what shall come to pass shortly!

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 36
Azir

pre 7 godina

Slav Serbs fearing the TRUTH.

It's like having a conversation with a Criminal about JUSTICE...

They squirm about it and hate you for bringing up.

Coward Serbs must man up and accept responsibility for their crimes.

Liberation of all non Serbs will in a way help you reach your goal of having only Serbs in Serbia.

Why occupy non Serbs?

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 24
LOL

pre 7 godina

The paranoia of the thief!
(Joni, 21 April 2017 10:25)

Right you are!

The inferiority complex among Albanians is well known and has been part of your culture since Hoxha gave you one, but this week must have been a national holiday since everyone from Rama, to Thaci, to Musliu, to every deranged, delusional, and dimwitted Albanian dingdong on this site have shown how they are indeed, a pathetic gaggle of paranoid thieves and miscreants. It's almost as if a bunch of you were competing over who would win some sort of prize for Biggest Paranoid Thief in the Balkans.

Preporučujem 21 Ne preporučujem 19
Albanian American

pre 7 godina

Navi, 21 April 2017 16:21)

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker . Anyway it's the anniversary of April 1941 , NATO , 18 yr ago so like they say " third time's the charm " 👍

Preporučujem 21 Ne preporučujem 22
Azir

pre 7 godina

Natural Albania.....

Where no Albanian is left out..

Promoting peace ,reconciliation and stability...,

Non-Slavic in character and aiming for EU and NATO complete membership.

Coward Serbs need not fear us we are the truth.

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 31
Smart Serb

pre 7 godina

Aziz
You and your family are most probably Greek converts.
You probably have more Jewish blood in you than actual Shiptar.
All this huffing and puffing counts for nothing. Lol
You think Europe likes Shiptars?
They want rid of you ALL therefore give you Kosovo*
No one likes your despicable people and only feel sorry. Greater Albo land is a big dream and nothing more. Love Serbs we are great✌

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 24
Avni

pre 7 godina

Hey Serbs, we have learned from you how to NOT do things. We'll create ethnic Albania democratically and peacefully, or let NATO do it for us.

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 19
Free

pre 7 godina

Is there any prize "The most stupid politician in the Balkan"?

Because i`ve noticed a strong rivalry between Serb and Albanian politicians who will be the Nr.1 Idiot.

Till now the absolute winner was Dacic, but now he has rivals it seems.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 16
MikeD

pre 7 godina

Been seeing some reference to 'ancient lands' in the Albanian comments. Its funny how not one single scholar in the world thinks that any current society today has an actual link to Illyria. Most evakuate that this term was used as a reference for several types of people living in the Balkans. Maybe the Albanians will go after Narnia next?

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 15
Hank the Tank

pre 7 godina

Its one think to say albanians will create greater albania and another one to actually do it. How many honestly think they will succeed? Albanians are known to huff and puff but when push comes to shove we all know what they are made of. Islamic state had similar thoughts and we all know what happened. I say let them dream. Thats why they are were they are, nowhere!

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 16
Yugoslavian_Loyal

pre 7 godina

He said union, he didn't say country and when pressured internationally he will respond the same way. Politicians are all snakes no matter their blood line.

They use nationalist marks on one hand while robbing you with the other. Politicians of the balkan regions are pure thieves. Little comments like this still get our people reved up for nothing. It shows you the west have us under complete control and will spark a match whenever they decide they need a war here. Doesn't matter which side they take, there are no winners. Serbia and Albania have lost Kosovo. It is and always will be American land now (no matter what a fake title says). Nationalism is the currency in the Balkans and aslong as it is traded and common people are gullible, then war is always at our doorstep. Only question is when the West will let it come in.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 10
Just an observer.

pre 7 godina

Albanians are taking over through a war of demographics, which we have launched against the rest of the Balkans for the past 100 years. Soon you will all be a minority in your own countries not because of us, but because of your inability to procreate. A greater Albania is nothing more than original Albania before the powers that be cut it up and gave it to you at the expense of Albanian lives. In regards to Dacic and his comments, don't worry this time the Albanians you'll be facing will be armed just like the Serbs and Russia won't be there to supply you because they're almost broke themselves. The truth is Albanians aren't the ones you should worry about, Croats and Bosniaks are the ones who are a bigger threat to you. As for Albanian politicians they are a complete joke, Albanians could not care about their opinion. We will take our lands back but on our own terms.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 14
Albanian Orthodox

pre 7 godina

Cmon Mr. Dacic dont ne ironic. Nis has nothing to do with Albania, the rest of the names you mentioned are un historic injustice that time will fix no matter how much you shout or you compare it with Armagedon all the West knows now there wont be any long term peace and stability in balcans if you dont give back what you took by force. The blood of the ancients never stops asking and it never will. For you all those names are a point in the map, an economic topic, or even a simple land, for us is something more, its home and nothing is more sacred than that.

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 18
Make Albania Natural Again

pre 7 godina

Natural Albania.....

Where no Albanian is left out..
(Azir, 21 April 2017 14:09)

I think this is a great idea, but in order to make Natural Albania, we need to make a few changes:

1. The current State of Albania needs to give its northern port of Skadar to Montenegro, and its southern regions of Epiros to Greece. We will call this Adjusted Albania.

2. All Albanians in the region outside the adjusted State of Albania need to relocate back there within a 90 day period on pain of incarceration by Serbian, Macedonian, Greek, Montenegrin, and Croatian authorities of they don't.

Now that we've realized an Albanian state where no Albanian is left out, we need to make it "natural", which is to say return Albanians to a natural population level since there is nothing natural about deliberately having 15 children.

3. The European Union, in an effort to control the Albanian population, which may get crowded trying trying find living space in Adjusted Albania, needs to strictly enforce a One-Child Policy, with the penalty of forced sterilization on any Albanian who tries to have another child. This should get the population down about 1 to 2 million in about 20 - 30 years, which would be right around the time membership in the EU should be considered.

That, my friend, is what a real Natural Albania should be.

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 20
Albanian American

pre 7 godina

(Make Albania Natural Again, 21 April 2017 17:08)

But instead Albanians will have minimum 4 kids , witch means 3 million more in 15-20 yr.
serbs in the other hand will have less kids , like 1 ore none witch means your mortality it's up. Proven fact by the way.
Now that's how you make great Albania 🇦🇱 again

Preporučujem 17 Ne preporučujem 12
Joni

pre 7 godina

If Albanians tried to unite into one state, I think they would succeed, however, the name of that state is likely to be called Turkey.
(Zoran, 21 April 2017 10:45)

Oh my dear, I bet that with 41 million Turks who claim the Ottoman empire lands – same as you claim Kosovo – you would be forced to go where you came from!
But wait - ‘where you came from, honey! Siberia, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan???
Because even Turks have more rights than you have – at least Turks were always there – you even don’t know where you came from, so what you want in Balkan? Hahaha!

Preporučujem 16 Ne preporučujem 18
Navi

pre 7 godina

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker .
(Albanian American, 21 April 2017 19:09)

Because the aggression and war mongering is coming from Albanians not Serbs. Dropping it in Belgrade serves no purpose. Try to pay attention instead of being ignorant of what you're commenting on.

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 12
Prishtina

pre 7 godina

Step by step we will get there,why argue from mardar to niš in 50 year the will be no serbs in those areas serbs will disappear so why barging about war thats stupid just let them hang them self serbs.

This is not my opinion is from your serbs Science said it albanian in 100 year will dominate the balkan you why because serbs don't make kids anymore thats a fact so you internet warriors come down

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 15
Albanian American

pre 7 godina

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker .
(Albanian American, 21 April 2017 19:09)

Because the aggression and war mongering is coming from Albanians not Serbs. Dropping it in Belgrade serves no purpose. Try to pay attention instead of being ignorant of what you're commenting on.
(Navi, 21 April 2017 19:56)

Again: ignorant it's what you are, ignorant it's your culture ...
The aggression it's coming from the people who in the past 20 years have been involved in war with all their neighbors. Hello anybody home...
Belgrade was bombarded twice, you know why ?
Like they say " third time it's the charm " you will get it again tryst me, you been playing with fire yet again

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 18
cry me a river

pre 7 godina

Been seeing some reference to 'ancient lands' in the Albanian comments. Its funny how not one single scholar in the world thinks that any current society today has an actual link to Illyria. Most evakuate that this term was used as a reference for several types of people living in the Balkans. Maybe the Albanians will go after Narnia next?
(MikeD,

You let your ignorance show so easily. Check the archives of NY Times for starters. There are historians who link the two. It's your job to educate yourself.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 11
Navi

pre 7 godina

We'll create ethnic Albania democratically and peacefully, or let NATO do it for us.
(Avni, 22 April 2017 00:27)

That will never happen, so stop sounding ignorant. NATO won't help you. They'll bomb you. That would be a nice thing to see.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 8
Junior999

pre 7 godina

Let's all admit the obvious: Multi-ethnic societies do not work in the balkans. Every person in the Balkans, is a nationalist deep inside. Serbs really want Kosovo back, but without the 2 million Albanians. That's not going to happen. In Bosnia, the idea that the Bosnians, Croats, and Serbs should live together peacefully together is basically a forced marriage, where each party wishes the other didn't exist. In Macedonia, Albanians and Macedonians wish that they didn't have to live together, yet, they are also forced in an arranged marriage. Montenegro breaks away from Serbia, and by all estimates, they are the exact same people! What does this tell you? The superpowers have given and taken land from one party to the other, back and forth, throughout history with no regards to the ethnic habitants of the region. Let's do everyone a favor and admit that each nationality wishes to live separate from each other. Do you really think Macedonians love the idea that 25-30% of their countrymen are Albanian??? Deep inside they hate Albanians and resent them, and secretly wish they did not exist... oh how great Macedonia would be without the Albanians they whisper in their dreams. Do you really think that Republka Srpska Serbs love the fact that they need to get an ok from Bosnians or Croats to celebrate a holiday?

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 3
shkipkurd

pre 7 godina

Albanians came from Middle East. Go back to Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran! Out of Balkan lands, this is no place for those backward troublemakers criminals and thieves and murderers. Just look at their faces! It shows all.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 13
Navi

pre 7 godina

Again: ignorant it's what you are, ignorant it's your culture ...
The aggression it's coming from the people who in the past 20 years have been involved in war with all their neighbors.
(Albanian American, 22 April 2017 01:20)

You're the ones talking about land grabs, ethnic cleansing, and Greater Albania. You're like Nazis blaming Poles and Jews for getting in your way of fulfilling your fascist dreams. You're the one being ignorant. You're the one with an ignorant culture. Stop embarrassing yourself before you're attacked.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 9
Hank the Tank

pre 7 godina

Joni

You know very well that albanians came with the turks. A mercenary army who came to Europe to help turks in exchange for money and power. If albanians were in the Balkans long before serbs what do you have to show for it? What did you build? There are Serbian churches from the 13th century, where are the albanian ones? Either you are the most incompetent people in the world or you should just admit you came from Kaukasus. If you indeed were the first people in Europe how come you are the shitiest place in Europe? Such s long history and but your still s backward, poor and undeveloped country. Let me guess! Its Serbias fault.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 9
Leonidas

pre 7 godina

today Greece has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks…
joni
It's pretty obvious from your ignorant comment you haven't got a clue of what you're talking about. No serious world historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA. What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity without ignoring a number of differences with ancient Greece. Unfortunately,Turko-Albanians have nothing else to say than resort to historical myths, and anti-Greek propaganda.
find me a scholar who tell that Albanians came in Balkan
Albanians historical presence in the Balkans is for first time attested in 11th AD century. If there are so many modern historians claiming what you say,then show me at least one such.a modern one, who is still alive and not Albanian or half-Albanian, like that Mathieu Aref.If you really want to expand your knowledge on Balkan history may i suggest you take a trip to Turkey-i am being serious-and spend some time in the national library going through Ottoman history written by the Ottomans themselves and translated by the distinguished Ottoman historian Halil Inancik.If you’re really open-minded you’ll discover your true path which i am afraid is totally inconsistent with your nationalist delusions of grandeur.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 14
Vojvodina

pre 7 godina

Unfortunately, this is a toll for how we treated those people, and as long as we refuse to acknowledge the error of our ways and willingly pay that toll (ie. recognize Kosovo), they will take more and more of our land until Serbia is no more.

We won't save our country with lies and injustice, we will save it with fairness and honesty.

Preporučujem 12 Ne preporučujem 18
Joni

pre 7 godina

To Mike!
I’m sorry to break you but there a lot of of scholars who think even that the today Greece has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks…

But find me a scholar who tell that Albanians came in Balkan – try honey!

You know well what all we and Europe, World learn about Serbs – you came in Balkan like INVADERS !
You can't change that!!!! Hehehehe!!

Preporučujem 12 Ne preporučujem 21
Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Joni
I guessed so. Cowards are always scared of the truth.You’re scared to find out of the Muslim Colonization of the Balkans(Fyrom,Kosovo,Bosnia) which consisted of Turks and Turcic people arriving in the area into their hundredths of thousands and settling in Christian areas.You are scared also to find out about the intense Albanian colonization of Fyrom from the end of the 18th century to the first half of the 19th century.So much for being indigenous to Fyrom.
With regard to your Cham pals-Chronologically speaking-Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians name it "Chameria". Epirus was known as such since Odysseus's era, if not earlier, Chameria was a term invented when the Albanians settled in the region, during the Ottoman times.
When the Roman invasion of Ancient Greece occurred, the Romans didn't fight any Chams",but the three native tribes of Epirus:The Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians. When the Normans attacked the Byzantines in Dyrrhachium in 1081 did you see any Albanians around or taking part in the ensuing battle?
Instead you continue with your far -fetched claims of Illyrian descent and being indigenous to the region which have become masks for greater Albania. Modern Albania is as much of an artificial creation as Fyrom without a history It emerged as an Austro-Hungarian project in 1913 and ever since Albanians is dependent on outside assistance to survive. Your entire history before 1913 can be written in less than 100 pages.

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sj

pre 7 godina

(BLACK EAGLE, 23 April 2017 23:27)

In the 150 million years of so called Albanian occupation of the Balkans please show me some evidence of that claim. Last I looked there were ruins left by early Greeks, Romans, Turks and even the Serbs, but not even a cave painting by the Albanians.
Earlier this year I had one of your compatriots attach a leaflet with pictures on archaeology found in Albania. He was claiming the pottery and statutes were made by Albanians when in fact it was obvious that the pottery was mostly ancient Greek and some Roman and the same with the statues.
I even had another claim certain words we use today was Albanian which, with once glance, had obviously been derived from classical Greek.
Go to the British Museum in London and spend a day there then come back and tell me all about your occupation of the Balkans. That’s if you can find anything Albanian that goes back to 300BC.
So now we can assume that people like Aristotle, Herodotus or Homer were not Greek but all Albanians? Stop playing with yourself, you will pull it right off.

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sj

pre 7 godina

Leonidhas my deearrr !
I have’nt why to go in Istanbul because i have Athens History University nearby. Here you have !
[link]
[link]
I think Greeks need to go in Turkey to understand why Orthodox Middle Eastern Greeks were living in Turkey before that they were exchanged with Albanian white people. You just mixed yourself - so is to see you is Turk or Middle Eastern here. Have you been in Thessaloniki ? How did they look Leonidhas ?? Eeee ? Are you from Thessaloniky ?
[link]

And Turko – Albanians ?? Hahahahaha ! Like this one i bet ! Best male is considered in Turkey !
[link]
[link]
Wowwwww…, send me in Turkey for the next war.. Eeeheeee !
(Joni, 24 April 2017 12:03)

What are you on?

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Its not a coincidence that the Albanoi tribe of illyrians lived in the same regions as Albanians inhabit today

Find me a modern historian who subscribe to such nonsense.Illyrians re not synonymous with Albanians..Illyrians and Albanians are different people. The fact is that the Balkans and the Greek peninsula were colonized by many, many different peoples during the late antiquity and the early middle-ages. Slavs, magyars, all these eastern peoples moved into these regions, settled and mixed with the already-present Hellenes and Illyrians.

Its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate ancient scripts and toponyms especially from the Homeric era.

What gives credence the Greeks claim to antiquity is the survival of a continuous literary tradition for three and a half millennia, from the earliest Linear B clay tablets baked on Crete to the modern Greek alphabet that has been in use for thousands of years. This continuity lends credence to Greek claims. A single literate civilization has survived.Albanians-on the other hand-didn’t have an alphabet until the 1920s.

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Ali Pasha of Ioannina

pre 7 godina

Kosova+Albania= Ethnic Albania

We will unite and so will Presheva valley as well. We are going to take back what we lost! Kosova was Ohly the beginning!

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SHQIP 456

pre 7 godina

I love all the albo-hate here. We must really be shoving our shoes into many people's mouths. So whatever we're doing, it must be right.

O shqipetar, kenaquni me keto komentet urrejtese. Mos debatoni me keta. Matni suksesin tone me nivelin e urrejtjes te tyre.

Pershendetje, dhe boni gallate ketu. Te shofim sa do e publikojne keta komentin.

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Tearce

pre 7 godina

It breaks my heart to see so much hatred and blind nationalism displayed by Albanians on this forum, why did you allow your humanity to be poisoned by nationalism?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

You are still trolling and obsessing over things that you yourself can not answer? It's a comical situation for someone like you to be sitting here trying to question someone elses heritage and history, while you don't even know your own heritage or history. You still haven't provided any ancient text that mention "Greeks' as an ethnic group prior to the 19th century. There was no mention of "Greeks" as an ethnic group anywhere in Europe prior to the late 19th century.

The work from Polybius and Ptolemy, along with the numerous chronicles mentioning Albanians as the natives during the byzantine period, is more than enough for any normal person to understand and conclude the historical pattern of ethnic groups.

The Albanians are the descendants of ancient Ilyrian and Macedonian tribes and you already know better than anyone else that this is the reality. But You are behaving the exact same way that fyrom Slavs behave with trying to distort European history using a modern political agenda. There are no international scholars or historians supporting the forums agenda of Greek golden dawn servian chetnik fyromian propaganda against the natives.

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J

pre 7 godina

It breaks my heart to see so much hatred and blind nationalism displayed by Albanians on this forum, why did you allow your humanity to be poisoned by nationalism?
(Tearce, 24 April 2017 07:23)

Last time I checked the remains of Albanian babies where uncovered from mass graves under multistorey buildings in Serbia. If you want to talk about blind nationalism and hate you should start with that.

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sj

pre 7 godina

The EU and US are losing sleep right now after reading such a statement. How are the Albanians going to achieve taking over right up to Nis?

The Communists used to adopt this tactic. During the warmer months out comes the grand plans to wave to the populace to cool them down while in winter they went back into the draw as its too cold to wave them around.
Why do they allow the Albanians to make such statements when the west would scream from the top of Mount Everest if the Serbs mentioned a greater Serbia, simple its a little payback for supporting the west, but the west knows it all hot air and nothing else.

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M.B.

pre 7 godina

@Yugoslavian_Loyal
---------------------

For both your comments - my sentiments exactly!

The sh**tty Balkan governments run by sh**tty Balkan politicians would fix all problems so quickly....if only the territories under their control were larger!

Morons!

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hass

pre 7 godina

"I heard that there are a few Albanians in Sweden too. Perhaps that should be part of greater Albania. There are far more Serbs in Europe then Albanians. Maybe we should reply in kind this time."

Yes most of these criminals turks live in Malmö. In fact there's so many of them there that they changed the name to MalmA

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Partizan

pre 7 godina

To the mayor and all Albanians keep dreaming, and when you wake up you will realise it's just one big dream that will never never happen.

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Junior999

pre 7 godina

(CONT'D). In the end, all of the conflicts are between countries that border eachother. Funny how Albanians have no issues with Croatia??? Or Macedonia has no issue with Montenegro??? That should tell you that a line on a map doesn't necessarily mean that's where the ethnicities are separated. Lets take today's "reality" on the ground and re-draw the borders. Wherever there are Serbs with huge majority bordering Serbia, that land reverts to Serbia (Srpska Repulika, Northern Mitrovica, etc). Wherever there are Majority Albanians bordering Albania, that land reverts to Albania. For smaller populations not bordering their respective "mother" country, a population exchange program can be created where they can choose to move, or continue to stay in the host country as a tiny minority. Tiny minorities are rarely a problem in countries. It's large minority populations that cause friction. Yes, countries will argue, it will be tedious, and no one country will be fully satisfied, but we will be able to move on much faster, and without the cost of war, bloodshed, and destruction fueled by the seemingly instinctual nationalism prevalent in all Balkan nationalities.

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100% Croat

pre 7 godina

@ Partizan

The Serbs are the ones that still dreaming.

GS - Never happend and never will.
Krajina - Wiped out in 4 days.
RS- Never to be recognised by int. community.
Kosova- Serbian flag never to be raised in Pristina ever again.
Sandzak- Muslims gaining strength, Mosques all over southern Serbia.
The Balkan region consider Serbs to be at a level where the Roma are.
The Serbs are an embarrassment to the so called Balkan region.

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LOL

pre 7 godina

I love all the albo-hate here.
(SHQIP 456, 22 April 2017 23:57)

I love all the albo-propaganda. You guys are going into overtime with your delusions, deranged visions of fiction, and hyperbolic chest thumping nationalism far beyond what's normal around here. I'm almost convinced half the pro-albo comments here are from non Albanians deliberately writing this stuff just to keep the flame wars going. I say "almost" convinced because in any other situation, no one would be this stupid and naive in believing what's written. But these are Albanians we're talking about, and Albanians suffer from the biggest national inferiority complex in Europe. Plus, considering B92 is notorious for attracting the worst dregs of Albo-Illyrian Cyber Spamming, and it's almost more pathetic than hilarious the extents you'll go through to sound tough, strong, and important in the world. I really hope some of you are getting paid to waste this much time online, because if there isn't a media-relations firm that hires people to spam the internet, and this is genuinely a gaggle of angry albo dingdongs, you people are even more pathetic than I and many others thought :)

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Albanians are Turks

pre 7 godina

Because even Turks have more rights than you have – at least Turks were always there – you even don’t know where you came from, so what you want in Balkan? Hahaha!
(Joni, 22 April 2017 13:48)

I'm pretty certain a good Byzantine Greek would give the Turk a run for his money when questions surrounding who owns the land comes up. Both the Turk and the Albanian belong back in Central Asia.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Is there any ancient text that mentions Greeks dwelling in the Balkans or even regions like Morea? No, there isn't. So i don't know what you think you are going on about. But we do have records of Albanians being mentioned as natives of Macedonia and Illyria, hundreds of years before the creation of the modern Greek state and identity.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas
Paranoia is when you as a modern romi greek try to pretend that Albanians are not the indigenous people because of some weird complex you have developed together with your Yugoslav-fyrom-serb political compatriots.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Its not a coincidence that the Albanoi tribe of illyrians lived in the same regions as Albanians inhabit today. its not a coincidence that "greek" was never mentioned as a tribe of ancient Helens, or any other ancient tribes of Europe.

its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate ancient scripts and toponyms especially from the Homeric era.

It's not a coincidence that Albanians are the people which preserved and still continue to nurture the oldest elements of ancient traditions passed down from generation to generation.

We know you golden dawn Greek Anatolian types, along with your fyromian serv chetnik forums compatriots cant stand this fact and are obsessed with trying to distort European history by any means necessary.

the more you try to lie about Albanian origins, the more the truth will come out for the lack of affinity modern Greeks have with ancient heritage and culture. Your Greek history is intertwined with Albanians whether you like it or not.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians

Another Albanian lie another threat. Beginning in the 7th century BC, Greek cities were established on the Illyrian coast. The most important were Apollonia, Avlona ( Vlorë),Epidamnos (Durrës), and Lissus ( Lezhë). The rediscovered Greek city of Buthrotum (Ancient Greek: Βουθρωτόν, Vouthrotón) (Butrint), is probably more significant today than it was when Julius Caesar used it as a provisions depot for his troops during his campaigns in the 1st century BC.Not to mention the ancient city of Nikopolis or the sanctuary of Dodoni located in the modernCity of Ioannina prefecture.
As regards to your claims that Epirus is already in Albanian hands the truth is no Albanian is allowed to settle in the area. As to your threats, lets remind ourselves what happened in the last two occasions Albanians took part against the Greeks.In the battle of Bizani-the biggest battle of the Balkan war-the combined forces of the Ottoman Turks-Albanians were defeated and chased to Albania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bizani
It was the French and the British that saved them because they wanted to keep Italy within their Alliance.
The second occasion was in 1940 when the combined Italian and Albanian forces were chased up To Tepeleni. This time it was the Germans who saved their Italian and Albanian poodles.Next time you take arms against Greece we’ll chase you all the way to Tirana and there won’t be any mercy.

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Nick

pre 7 godina

I'm Serbian I live in Vegas I Kent bilive that the serbs in Serbia are so stupid Serbia is to go to war take cosovo f*ck EU and stay brothers with Russia make seselj president it's the only way Serbia enyway must have a nother war enyway you look at it .. this your wake up call Serbia do it now or you are doomed forever

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

-Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945)”, Volume II.
“It is funny but also sad, to see a social gathering of different Greeks, that is to say Chiots, Cretans, Albanians, Byzantines, Orientals, Ionian islanders and others, where upon the one mixes in Turkish words, the other Italian ones, the other Albanian ones, and in the same gathering, while they are all Greek, they cannot understand each other without the use of a translation or an explanation of each word as it is uttered, with the gathering thus turning into a Babel.”

-Politics in Modern Greece” by Keith R. Legg on page 86, “The term ‘Greek’ differentiates the language spoken by inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

Do you understand what this last quote is trying to express? it means that Greeks didn't even have their own ethnic name before modern Greece was created.

its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate the majority of ancient names and toponyms...that's why the Greek government had invested so much on deliberately changing the native toponyms across the modern Greece landscape.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

why do you choose weak sparring partners ?
there's only one man on this site who can destroy all your tales
are you ready ?
(rote, 24 April

Rote, I had a bad taste of your conspiratorial and anti-Greek mindset on our last exchange, so I know it is hardly any use talking to you on any issue in a sober manner.Your line of thinking involves such wild statements -amongst others-such as the past existence of Albanian empires or Jesus was in fact the Byzantine emperor Andronikos etc.. I do not share any of those views and lets leave it to that.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

One of the things about me is that I focus on the arguments that someone presents and not the person; also known as playing the ball not the man. Of course I’m not perfect but I do make an effort to stay civil in what I write and I expect the same from my interlocutors who leave a comment.
Experience has taught me that when Albanians lose an argument-not that they had any- resort to swearing and name calling .As Socrates once said ““When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

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rote

pre 7 godina

Joni - 2

Axioma is that history is a science (Ha!) of written sources. But in 14 century only Slavs and the Romeys of the Byzantine had grammar and written documents. They survived only in Vatican Library where you can reach only with direct order of the Pope himself. It's a 8 km long tunnel ... So talking about who were the first on the Balkans is like what was first egg or chcken.

Yet there are plenty of direct and indirect facts that let me suppose that your ancestors came to the Balkans in the Migration Period of 4-6 centuries (14-16 of Scaliger-Petavius) within the Great Slavic Horde also known as the Great Roman Empire, Mongo-Tatar, Meagaleon Tartaria, Velikoe Gosudarstvo, Ottoman Porta, India, Great Mogols ect.

Genetically you look like Semite peoples of Dagestan and Chechnia with a big Slavic component. Your ancestors had no writen history of their own like the rest on this planet. There simply was no need in it as well as there was no need in any nations before 17 century. Your story began to appear in 19 century when for the fisrt time some lands were mentioned as Shqiperia.

It happened because your neigboring Greeks broke away and you had to identify yourself somehow. In the Ottoman empire nobody called you Albanians coz the sultans were Albanians themselves while you belonged to 3 (out of 4) different nations of the empire - milliet-i Rum, milliet-i Katolik and milliet-i Muslim.

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Azir

pre 7 godina

Kent

Try taking your own advice and kindly relocate to your dear Mother Russia who will eagerly accommodate you and your domestic partner...

You live the good life in America that you creatures hate so much but at the same time you worship degenerate Russia...

Go home to Russia Ignorant boy...

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Joni

pre 7 godina

Leonidhas my deearrr !
I have’nt why to go in Istanbul because i have Athens History University nearby. Here you have !
https://youtu.be/zNJ8sxOEHfU
https://youtu.be/NBDhUPXNiF0
I think Greeks need to go in Turkey to understand why Orthodox Middle Eastern Greeks were living in Turkey before that they were exchanged with Albanian white people. You just mixed yourself - so is to see you is Turk or Middle Eastern here. Have you been in Thessaloniki ? How did they look Leonidhas ?? Eeee ? Are you from Thessaloniky ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Albanians#Population_exchange_and_appropriation_of_property_.281923.E2.80.931926.29

And Turko – Albanians ?? Hahahahaha ! Like this one i bet ! Best male is considered in Turkey !
https://www.google.al/search?q=KIVANC+TATLUG&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK-bf15LzTAhXCbRQKHccxCvMQsAQINw&biw=1280&bih=894
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%B1van%C3%A7_Tatl%C4%B1tu%C4%9F
Wowwwww…, send me in Turkey for the next war.. Eeeheeee !

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas : So Polybius who was born in 220BC and Ptolemy who was born around 100 AD were able to predict the future and assign the Albanians as natives in the Byzantine era.


Polybius http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Polybius

Ptolemy http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Ptolemy++

PS - 1 no written sources older than 900 years are available and all of them are copies of some vanished copies ...

PS - 2 could you please give us sources other than the german and polish ones ? because we know that all your current history was written by the germans in 19 century and they decided who will be greeks and who will be albanians and who will be macedonians ... read more about henrich schliemann and the kind

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

“The term ‘Greek’ differentiates
the language spoken by
inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding
countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

Politics in Modern Greece, Keith R. Legg, page 86

You see? at a period of history when the Albanians were already speaking their own language, and using their own endonyms, the modern Greek state was still trying to figure out from which origins they came from and from which language and name they should use.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The Albanians are the descendants of the late Illyrian and Macedonian tribes which inhabited this part of Europe long before the arrival of Serbs,

Albanian nationalists have always cherished the myth of a link between Albanians and Illyrians. It is very popular because it suggests that Albanians descend from an ancient people who populated the Balkans long before the Slavs and therefore provide a good excuse to steal land from their neighbours. The Austrian linguists Schumaker and Massinger who studied the few Illyrian texts and the Albanian language have already confirmed that Albanians have nothing to do with Illyrians. Matzinger points put that when the few surviving fragments of Illyrian and Albanian are compared, they have almost nothing in common.
“The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.” So much for your Illyrian ancestry.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

I am fed up with the fairy tales with zreo proof that you believe in. So i'll be giving you only links that unmask your german made history.

[link]
[link]
(rote,

The problem is yours not mine. The whole world knows that Jesus died through crucifixion at the age of 33 whereas Andronikos-ancient Greek name meaning conqueror over men-was still sh----ng his various mistresses until his terrible death at the age of 67.This is verified by the 40 odd Greek Byzantine historians and the historical records held at Greek monasteries at Athos.
That's the main difference between you and myself.Trying to decipher ancient history one has to use the available tools at his disposal ie historiography and archaeology not Fomenko's pseudo-history.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Joni - 1

I know that you aren't interested in the truth and your only goal is to mud Serbs and thus try to legalize their lands where every meadow, every church and every village still has it Serbian name. Yet when the curtains are down it must be interesting who indeed we are and where we are from. So I repeat for all that Balkan peoples were formed under the Great Slavic Horde that invaded Europe in 1318 and by 1325 when Gengis Khan was poisoned they occupied eastern and central Europe including Balkans. Gengis Khan was not a name but a title - Khan of all the Khans in Turkic (capo di tutti capi for your besa understanding) while his real name was Georgy Danilovic. It gave name to the new dynasty that ruled the world for several centuries - the Rjurikovici. In Rus Rjurik (Yurik) and Georgy is the same name and you can still call every Georgy as Yury or Yurik. In European history they call him as St.George or Karl I. After his death his younger brother Ivan Danilovic finished the job seizing 100% of Europe and sent troopps to the ME and Asia. He topped all 3 branches of the state power (military, civil and religious) calling himself the Calif. His other Rus name was Batu Khan or Bati Khan that meant Father Khan or Papa Khan but now he is known as Karl II in Europe. In 1340 he died rather young leaving no heritage. He died in Rome - city that he established and where he had lived last years. Vatican was simply his Rus name Bati Khan.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The work from Polybius and Ptolemy mentioning Albanians as the natives during the byzantine period,
So Polybius who was born in 220BC and Ptolemy who was born around 100 AD were able to predict the future and assign the Albanians as natives in the Byzantine era. Nice try and it does confirm the ignorance of Albanian posters on this site.
There was no mention of "Greeks" as an ethnic group anywhere in Europe prior to the late 19th century.
Well,the following world historians do not share your view.
1.Aug.Heisenberg: "Byzantium is the christianised Roman state of the Greek nation (Staat und Gesellschaft des byzantinischen Reiches,p364)
2.Talbot Rice: "Byzantium has to be studied as a chapter of the long history of τhe Greek civilisation."
3: Ostrogorsky: "Byzantium,it always remained loyal to the Greek political ideals, and traditions of a Medieval Greek state." (History of the Byzantine state,p.217)
4: Gyula Moravscik: He says that it is preferable to talk about Greekology rather than Byzantinology (Byzantion, Vol.25 (1965) p. 291-301)
5Sture Linner: "The Byzantines... were always conscious of their Greek past" (History of the Byzantine civilisation, p. 219)
6Kurt Weitzmann. He writes about "The Greek blood in the veins of the Byzantines" (Greek mythology in Byzantine Art, p.207)
7 N. David: The Byzantine empire "in 6th century was more Greek than Roman" (p.23) and that Byzantine civilisation is a Greek spiritual world (p. 147 in the evolution of the middle ages)

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

franknwalters


Macedonia has NEVER in history been part of any type of country or nation called as "Greece".

On the other hand, the Albanians are categorized by various authors as descendant of Illyrians and Macedonians a distinct ethnic and linguistic group inhabiting the Balkans at least 300 years before the creation of the modern Greek state, and before the advent of communism. So even if Albanians did arrive in the 10th century, that still places them on the map long before anything called as "Greek" or "Greece".

History and Historians in the Nineteenth Century - “General interest was first aroused by a controversy as to the racial derivation of the modern Greeks. The war of independence had won the sympathy of Europe; and it was a rude shock both to Greece and to her champions when Fallmerayer announced that her inhabitants were virtually Slavs. The race of Hellenes, he declares in his ‘History of Morea’ was rooted out and Athens was unoccupied from the sixth to the tenth century.

And to further emphasize: Politics in Modern Greece - “The term ‘Greek’ differentiates the language spoken by inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

There is no such thing as "greekness" of Macedonia. This sounds like something a child would say. The idea that no historians deny the greekness of macedonia is just bullshit. What kind of "greekness" did Macedonia have?

Ancient Macedonians were linguistically Greek (at least the upper classes, who were the actual Macedonians and part of the population; the rest were Paeonians, but spoke a NW Greek dialect (close to Doric). Later on (i.e. in the time of Philip and Alexander) they adopted the primarily Atttic-based Koine Greek and the Athens-originating culture like most other Greeks did at the time.
If you want to convince me (and the world) that Phillip was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian, first you have to convince me (and the world) that:
1. Aristogeiton was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian
2.Demosthenes was not Greek because Aeschines called him a barbarian
3. The Eleans were not Greek because Stratonicus called them barbarians
4. The Thessalians were not Greek because Hegesander called them barbarians.
5. The Aeoleans were not Greek because Prodicus called them barbarians.
6. The Epirotes are not Greek because Thucydides called them barbarians.
7. Strepsiades was not Greek because Socrates called him a barbarian.
If you don't know WTF I'm talking about you can open some decent history book read and come back to me.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

There is no real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Macedonians.

The usual Albanian and Fyromian propaganda which is exposed by the link below.

http://history-of-macedonia.com/2009/08/06/ottoman-census-of-hilmi-pasha-1904/

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Do we need to go through another refresher course on Greeks being more Turkish than anyone? And what do you mean dare to do anything? Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians.
You probably need a refresher course in being turko-albanian.You’ve lived with them for 500 years in Muslim villages and mingled with them. Here is a quote by British Colonel Chris Woodhouse, head of the Allied Military Mission in Greece during the Axis occupation on your beloved Chams.,
"Chams are racially part Turk, art Albanian.In 1941-3 they collaborated with Italians & Germans, making the organization of guerilla resistance in that area difficult..Zervas encouraged by the Allied Mission under myself, chased them out of their homes in 1944 in order to facilitate operations against the enemy. They mostly took refuge in Albania, where they were not popular either. Their eviction from Greece was bloodily carried out, owing the usual vendetta spirit, which was fed by many brutalities committed by the Chams in league with the Italians.The Chams deserved what they got, but Zervas' methods were pretty bad - or rather, his subordinate officers got out of hand. The result has been in effect a shift of populations, removing an unwanted minority from Greek soil. Perhaps it would be best to leave things at that”.

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observing

pre 7 godina

Albanians are trouble makers. Not civilized people. They even come to Serbian sites to harass. Even primitive people didn't harass!

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Zervas bandits were the most sadistic and depraved collaborationist movement in German occupied Europe.

That’s absolute b....ks.Zervas was a Souliote officer of the Greek army and he was a fanatic Venizelist (Liberal Partry) and served with distinction during the Balkan wars.After the occupation of Greece by Germany and Italy he and other officers of the Greek army formed EDES whose sole purpose was to fight against the occupying forces of Germany and Italy and the abolition of the monarchy. His EDES forces were one of the main participants in the blow up of the Gorgopotamos bridge. He was under the operational control of the British and never collaborated with the Germans –unlike your Cham pals.In restrospect,i think his bigger mistake was the expulsion of Chams.He should have arrested them and put them on trial for the death of more than 3000 Greeks and Jews.The sentence for enemy collaborators in Europe was the ultimate sentence.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek?

I will leave you with 2 quotes.

Alexander's own words are quoted as: "Men of Athens... Had I not greatly AT HEART the common welfare of GREECE I should not have come to tell you; BUT I AM MYSELF GREEK BY DESCENT, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery.... If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the GREEK CAUSE, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am ALEXANDER of MACEDON."
[Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45, translated by G.Rawlinson]

"It should be noted that there is NO CONNECTION between the Macedonians of the time of Alexander the Great who were a GREEK tribe and today's
so-called 'macedonians' of the 'Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia' or
FYROM, who are of SLAVIC origin and related to BULGARIANS." -
David H Levinson, 'The Encyclopaedia of Ancient Cultures'

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

don't waste words!
simply read this book.

[link]
(rote,

Why do you waste yours? Why don't you take a trip to Turkey and read their recorded history.It's only 22 volumes.When you finish you can visit the national museum and see the thousands of Ottoman inscriptions and also Ottoman coinage (piastras and Liras).Each coin bears the head of the Sultan and the date it was minted.I was told there are more than 300 coins each reflecting a different period. When you finish all those tasks you come back and report whether Fomenko is still right.

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Joni

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Greeks are partially European because you are mixed with Albanians.
Is easy to see it when you visit Greece. Sorry that's the truth.

For exmp. i find very interesting this:
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/rosetta.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone
Arvanites … Greeks???
Here you have the Arvanites in Greece, protecting their own nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristeidis_Kollias
https://youtu.be/j3IXS2R7uJQ
One of me most great man who make shushhhh… the Greeks. What Greeks had to tell to this Arvanite? My ancestors fought for Greece independence but we are Albanians. All Greece have is thanks to Albanians.

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J

pre 7 godina

The term Arvanitis is referring to the Greek orthodox people from Souli, Hydra, Spetsai and to groups of inhabitants in Mesogeia and stems from an entirely different root. In particular, from the word Arvanon , a toponym of N. Epirus mentioned, already since 11th century, in the texts of Anna Komnini. That is from Arvanon, from the Hellenic N. Epirus, Greek population speaking Arvanitika migrated down to towns and islands and Greece since the 14th century and integrated with the rest of the Greek population.The overwhelming muslim population of Albania joined the Ottoman Turks in their wars against the Greeks.Lets remind ourselves of the wars Ali Pasha contacted against Souli and how many Souliotes Greeks died in the process.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 19:26)

I don't subscribe to Greeks having no connection to ancient Greeks but what you wrote about the Arvanites is total nonsense. An Arvanite and an Albanian even today can communicate in Albanian.Very easily in fact. You're placing language as the thing that makes up nations then you're somehow saying Arvanites are Greeks even though their language is not Greek. You're being intellectually dishonest, and that's because of blind nationalism. The Italians recognize the Arbereshe as having Albanian roots. The Greeks don't recognize the Arvanite. You can take an Arbereshe and an Arvanite and they can easily communicate with each other; yet the Arvanite somehow has no Albanian roots. C'mon dude; lay off the pipe.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

I don't subscribe to Greeks having no connection to ancient Greeks.

You’re probably of a rare Albanian breed to say that because Albanians not only don’t believe that Greeks have anything to do with ancient Greece-in fact virtually all Albanian posters here argue that Greeks stole the Albanian history and converted it into Greek-they also believe that Greeks have never been in Southern Albania. Those who claim to be Greeks are Albanians and on the payroll of the Greek government. Not even Enver Hoxha would’ve made such a claim.

but what you wrote about the Arvanites is total nonsense.

As a Greek born ,raised and schooled in Greece i know that it was insulting to call an Arvanite school mate Albanian.This is probably due to the fact they were raised as Greeks and they had the Greek national conscience. Remember what Marcos Botsaris said “As a Greek i cannot feel free where the British flag flies”.As to the language,Greek was the only language they spoke.

You're being intellectually dishonest,

I think Albanians are dishonest for trying to force a false identity on Arvanites.They consider their ancestors Greek,their traditions Greek and their names were Greek.A number of them gave their properties to the Greek cause and were massacred by the very Albanians that now claim them as their own.Virtually all muslim Albanians fought by the side of the Ottomans until 1913 and did commit horrendous crimes by trying to stop Greek independence.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

There is no such thing as Albanians migrating into the Balkans from any other regions and there isn't any type of historical evidence that supports this idea. This propaganda is product of only some small political groups in Servia, Greece and Yugoslav inhabited Macedonia. The quote by Plutarch doesn't speak of any real known people called as "Albanians" from the Caucasus region. And Alfred Artaud never denies Albanians as the indigenous population of Illyria and Epiri.

The Albanians are the descendants of the late Illyrian and Macedonian tribes which inhabited this part of Europe long before the arrival of Serbs, Turks and romioi rum Greeks. No historian or writer of histories have ever denied this reality.

The only recorded migrations we have of the Albanians is the illegal forced migrations carried out by Servia Turkey and Greece against the native populations of Macedonia, Illyria and Epiri. Your romioi rum Greek history is built from the forced expulsion of the natives and total destruction of the ancient culture.

You think you can emphasize something here on Asia and migrations?? Well that's where your romi-Greek heritage comes from...Anatolia Minor Asia. There was no mention of any Greek tribe or people inhabiting Europe before the late 19th century. The Creek sporadic arrival is well documented with the population exchanges between Turkey and modern day Greece.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Do we need to go through another refresher course on Greeks being more Turkish than anyone? And what do you mean dare to do anything? Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians, That's why the Greek government spent millions of tax payer revenue on trying to bribe the local inhabitants into self identifying as "Greeks". and don't forget that the natives have a much more robust birthrate than the Turkogreeks in these regions. Within 2 or 3 generations, you wont even know what is Epiri-Cameria as Greeks had no critical link to Epirus before the 19thcentury.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

why do you choose weak sparring partners ?
there's only one man on this site who can destroy all your tales
are you ready ?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

There is no such thing as "greekness" of Macedonia. This sounds like something a child would say. The idea that no historians deny the greekness of macedonia is just bullshit. What kind of "greekness" did Macedonia have?

The reality is that Macedonians did not speak greek or self identify as greeks. There is no real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Macedonians. For that matter, there isn't even real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Hellens, Macedonia is the last thing that would be considered as a legitimate argument for greeks.

We still have numerous pieces of works from historians and authors from the last 300 years or so which have all confidently placed Albanians as the natives of Illyria and Macedonia.

This is at a time when the modern Greeks didn't even have their own ethnic name used by the population. The Albanians are mentioned by name since at least the 2nd century B.C as living in the city of Albanopolis

You can repeatedly troll all you want ( part of your trolling MO), its still not going to change the fact that there is no ancient reference to "greeks" as a people or nation in the southern European Peninsula until after the late 19th century. What exactly do you think you can prove here ?

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Socrates http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Socrates+
Prodicus http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=+Prodicus
Thucydides http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Thucydides+
Demosthenes http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=+Demosthenes

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

I am fed up with the fairy tales with zreo proof that you believe in. So i'll be giving you only links that unmask your german made history.

http://chronologia.org/en/car_slav/czar02_28.html
http://chronologia.org/en/seven/chronology1.html

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The term Arvanitis is referring to the Greek orthodox people from Souli, Hydra, Spetsai and to groups of inhabitants in Mesogeia and stems from an entirely different root. In particular, from the word Arvanon , a toponym of N. Epirus mentioned, already since 11th century, in the texts of Anna Komnini. That is from Arvanon, from the Hellenic N. Epirus, Greek population speaking Arvanitika migrated down to towns and islands and Greece since the 14th century and integrated with the rest of the Greek population.The overwhelming muslim population of Albania joined the Ottoman Turks in their wars against the Greeks.Lets remind ourselves of the wars Ali Pasha contacted against Souli and how many Souliotes Greeks died in the process.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas the lying lion = big malaka

Illyrians were in the Balkans long before Hellenes , and so on. So, it's not clear what point you're trying to make, beside the academic discussion about the history of the Balkans.

You pseudogreeks lie to yourselves so much. YOU ARE NOT HELLENES. Albanians was in the Balkans LONG before you. Maybe if you didn't spend so much time lying to yourselves you can see how worthless every piece of land becomes once you occupy it. Greece produces nothing only bankruptcy. Chameria or south Epirus has become a Greek colony under your illegal occupation. Come back to reality.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

We don't have idiots like in Greece (GOLDEN DAWN) that hold rallies in their honor, commemorate WWII-era war criminals, organize political parties that uphold those beliefs, target minorities and other perceived undesirables as scapegoat for all their country's problems, and be called out by the HUMAN RIGHTS Center for fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance. Whatever collaborators that existed in Albania (and other countries in Balkans mind you) during that time, pales in comparison to anything coming out of Greece. Then or now.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

You have been asked twice (and counting) and you keep avoid answering to a simple question: is there ONE SINGLE ANCIENT text that actually exists, mentioning the Greeks dwelling the Balkans prior to 19 century? You can admit there's none, OR you can provide one. One would be enough..

Plato’s tetralogies is the oldest surviving manuscript but there are also approximately 6000 Greek manuscripts of the new testament. Historians agree on the internal consistency of the New Testament documents which is about 99.5% textually pure. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

What you and other Albanian posters on this site fail to understand is what defines a nation is the language.Well the Greek language has been alive and kicking through the ancient times and Byzantium into modern Greece.The basis of modern Greek is the ancient language with the same alphabet.There are hundreds of books written by Greek Byzantine historians.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Albanians are the descendants of ancient Ilyrian and Macedonian tribes ...
(BLACK EAGLE, 24 April 2017 17:41)

You started so well that i immediately gave you my "like" but then you've spoiled it all ... Now you give a single reliable sourse running that the two mentioned Slavic peoples were not Slavic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zSsw0LQMw

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Though we have no diplomatic relations I have to mind you as there's no evidence of conquests other than the Slavic invasion of the Migration Period of 4-6 centuries = 14-16 of Scaliger Petavius. In 17-19 centuries the colonization of the world including of the Balkans was exposed as multiple different invasions. They used real names of the Slavic tribes but sent them to different ages and countries. Yet 1000k of facts, names, toponymals have survived on every continent. Promice not to talk about Greece if you choose any continent and ask me to give you Slavic toponymals there. You may even chose 2-3 continents where you don't expect to see our footprints. By the way Greek Brahmans were inside our every horde.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Zervas bandits were the most sadistic and depraved collaborationist movement in German occupied Europe. For sheer brutality, no other group came anywhere near them. They enjoyed torturing their victims. Even the Nazis couldn't stomach them, and that's saying something. Other groups committed reactionary crimes yes, but for organised premeditated atrocities the Zervas criminals were in a league of their own. They even had a concentration camp specifically for children. I am sure that most ordinary Greeks find their legacy revolting, and would rather consign them to their darkest period of history. Decent Greeks should have been out demonstrating against these cretins.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

There is no doubt nevertheless that the Illyrains, Thracians, and Macedonians were non-Greeks, or in the words of the ancient Greeks, "barbarians", which literally means people who spoke other non-Greek languages. 2. Macedonia became a world power when the Macedonian king Philip II conquered Thrace, greater part of Illyria, and the whole of Greece (except Sparta). At the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the Macedonian army destroyed the united Greek army, and put an end to Greek freedom and ancient Greek history. To secure the Macedonian conquest, Macedonian garrisons were established in the Greek cities, just like they were established in Thrace and Illyria. 3. Alexander the Great (336-323 BC), Philip II's son, took the Macedonian armies even further and conquered the Persian Empire, making Macedonia the largest and most powerful nation in the world for centuries to come. In his army next to the Macedonians, he utilized also troops from the Balkan nations that his father Philip II had conquered - Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The Greeks in the Macedonian army, however, were commanded by Macedonians, their contribution in the conquest was insignificant and miniscule, and modern historiography calls them nothing but Macedonian "hostages" who would ensure a good behavior of their friends and families back in Greece (Peter Green, Urlich Wilcken, Ernst Badian, Eugene Borza, A.B. Bosworth). Aware that the Greeks despised the Macedonians, To be continued

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

You have been asked twice (and counting) and you keep avoid answering to a simple question: is there ONE SINGLE ANCIENT text that actually exists, mentioning the Greeks dwelling the Balkans prior to 19 century? You can admit there's none, OR you can provide one. One would be enough...

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J

pre 7 godina

Leonidas, the majority is not this forum. Travel is deadly to bias. Visit Albania sometimes. Meet people form opinions.

Second, I'm not arguing against the Arvanites identifying as Greeks in the last 100 or 200 years or even 300 years.I'm arguing against the idea that Greeks espouse that the Arvanites even though they speak a form of Albanian do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity. Likewise, nobody questions the Arbereshe being Italian. But saying they do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity, they do speak a form of Albanian, it's just nonsense.
Third, former Greek ministers and Presidents spoke "arvanitika" at home. Yet they identified with the Greek culture and nation. Point is, one can originate from one ethnicity and as generations pass identity with another ethnicity. The two are not mutually exclusive.

All of the questions of the Arvanites are sensitive to Greeks because the majority I've come across believe there are no other ethicities/minorities living in Greece. That's also nonsense. With all the wars through history in the Balkans, there was no village that ended up on the Greek side other border? Only Greeks ended up on the Albanian side? That line of logic is so bad, it's comical. It's why Greeks take this extreeme view that the Arvanite MUST have started only as Greeks otherwise we've gotta admit we've got minorities among us. This is stupid too. If they identify as Greek today you don't have to, but don't deny the roots based on politics.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas


Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek? 1. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, separate from their neighbors, the ancient Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The ancient Greek and Roman historians tell us that the Macedonians spoke a separate Macedonian language and had their own customs, culture, and traditions. Archeological discoveries confirm that the material culture of the Macedonians also defer greatly from all of their neighbors, and it is by far more superior in artistry (gold, paintings, weapons, mosaics) then anything found in contemporary Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. The texts of the ancient writers distinguish the Macedonians from the ancient Greeks, just like they distinguish the Romans and the Carthaginians. Yet, like the other non-Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, and Thracians, the Macedonian high society also used the Greek language along with Macedonian. Greek was spoken by the nobility of many different ancient nations, just like French was spoken in the 19th century (at the German and Russian courts for example). Unfortunately there are only about 150 glosses that have survived of the ancient Macedonian language (most of them with no relation whatsoever with ancient Greek), and like ancient Carthaginian, Illyrian, and Thracian, it can not be reconstructed.To be continued

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Joni

pre 7 godina

(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 11:23)

Bla bla blaaa…. I asked to you a simple question Leonidas!

Why Greeks were living in Middle East Leonidas?
Are you Middle Eastern people?

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rote

pre 7 godina

not Fomenko's pseudo-history.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 13:04)

don't waste words!
simply read this book.

http://chronologia.org/en/car_slav/index.html

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

But saying they do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity, they do speak a form of Albanian,
These are not valid arguments. It is quite clear by now that all you are interested in me is accepting that Arvanites are Albanians despite the fact that they are against such inclusion and instead they declare themselves as a population of Romanized Geeks not "current Albanians".I did say in my post below that there isn’t a modern historian who confirms beyond any doubts that Albanians are connected to ancient populations. Greek Byzantine historians hardly mention the Albanians and when they do it’s after the 11th century AD.Even Malcolm the Albanian’s favourite historian ends his diatribe with a statement “ I am bewildered when and where Albanians came from”.

All of the questions of the Arvanites are sensitive to Greeks because the majority

You are simply wrong, if not biased: Greece does accept the right of its citizens to self-determination on an individual level alongside admitting the existence of certain minorities with 'legal' status; in other words, Greece admits the existence of a Muslim minority in Greek Thrace, made up of Turks, Bulgarian-speaking Pomaks and Gypsies, as stated in the international Lausanne Treaty.Arvanites they’ve been to Greece since the 13-14th century when there was no Greek nation and Greece was occupied either by the Venecians or Ottomans.Therefore,there was an osmosis between native Greeks and Arvanites as one population..

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Peter The Rocky Mountains

pre 7 godina

Daciic and his crony gang of thugs are complete idiots!

The fool mentions ulcini and tuzi? We need not take it it already belongs to the Albanian people, we will give our friend Montenegro a piece of the Republic of Kosova!
He then mentions presevo, bujonavc, medvedja, it already belongs to the Albanian nation you moron!
Then he has the nerve of talking about Skopje? You pathetic hermit, Macedonia no longer exsists as this was decided in the last election!
And the nerve he has to involve a NATO member state like Greece in Albanian ally a fellow member of NATO?
That's a easy one, chameria is historically Albanian land and in exchange for it Greece shall receive a large area of eastern defunct FYRM, and Bulgaria shall receive its fare share as well!!!
Go get a life Dacic, your failed plans of a greater and ethnically pure Serbia adopted in the early 1990s is the cause of what shall come to pass shortly!

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Azir

pre 7 godina

Natural Albania.....

Where no Albanian is left out..

Promoting peace ,reconciliation and stability...,

Non-Slavic in character and aiming for EU and NATO complete membership.

Coward Serbs need not fear us we are the truth.

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Azir

pre 7 godina

Slav Serbs fearing the TRUTH.

It's like having a conversation with a Criminal about JUSTICE...

They squirm about it and hate you for bringing up.

Coward Serbs must man up and accept responsibility for their crimes.

Liberation of all non Serbs will in a way help you reach your goal of having only Serbs in Serbia.

Why occupy non Serbs?

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Smart Serb

pre 7 godina

Aziz
You and your family are most probably Greek converts.
You probably have more Jewish blood in you than actual Shiptar.
All this huffing and puffing counts for nothing. Lol
You think Europe likes Shiptars?
They want rid of you ALL therefore give you Kosovo*
No one likes your despicable people and only feel sorry. Greater Albo land is a big dream and nothing more. Love Serbs we are great✌

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Tony (a Brit currently working in Berlin)

pre 7 godina

There will never be a Greater Albania. Just as there will never again be a Roman Empire, a Greater Israel or a Grossdeutsches Reich. And that is good.

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Albanian American

pre 7 godina

Navi, 21 April 2017 16:21)

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker . Anyway it's the anniversary of April 1941 , NATO , 18 yr ago so like they say " third time's the charm " 👍

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Joni

pre 7 godina

To Mike!
I’m sorry to break you but there a lot of of scholars who think even that the today Greece has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks…

But find me a scholar who tell that Albanians came in Balkan – try honey!

You know well what all we and Europe, World learn about Serbs – you came in Balkan like INVADERS !
You can't change that!!!! Hehehehe!!

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Make Albania Natural Again

pre 7 godina

Natural Albania.....

Where no Albanian is left out..
(Azir, 21 April 2017 14:09)

I think this is a great idea, but in order to make Natural Albania, we need to make a few changes:

1. The current State of Albania needs to give its northern port of Skadar to Montenegro, and its southern regions of Epiros to Greece. We will call this Adjusted Albania.

2. All Albanians in the region outside the adjusted State of Albania need to relocate back there within a 90 day period on pain of incarceration by Serbian, Macedonian, Greek, Montenegrin, and Croatian authorities of they don't.

Now that we've realized an Albanian state where no Albanian is left out, we need to make it "natural", which is to say return Albanians to a natural population level since there is nothing natural about deliberately having 15 children.

3. The European Union, in an effort to control the Albanian population, which may get crowded trying trying find living space in Adjusted Albania, needs to strictly enforce a One-Child Policy, with the penalty of forced sterilization on any Albanian who tries to have another child. This should get the population down about 1 to 2 million in about 20 - 30 years, which would be right around the time membership in the EU should be considered.

That, my friend, is what a real Natural Albania should be.

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LOL

pre 7 godina

The paranoia of the thief!
(Joni, 21 April 2017 10:25)

Right you are!

The inferiority complex among Albanians is well known and has been part of your culture since Hoxha gave you one, but this week must have been a national holiday since everyone from Rama, to Thaci, to Musliu, to every deranged, delusional, and dimwitted Albanian dingdong on this site have shown how they are indeed, a pathetic gaggle of paranoid thieves and miscreants. It's almost as if a bunch of you were competing over who would win some sort of prize for Biggest Paranoid Thief in the Balkans.

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Avni

pre 7 godina

Hey Serbs, we have learned from you how to NOT do things. We'll create ethnic Albania democratically and peacefully, or let NATO do it for us.

Preporučujem 20 Ne preporučujem 19
Albanian Orthodox

pre 7 godina

Cmon Mr. Dacic dont ne ironic. Nis has nothing to do with Albania, the rest of the names you mentioned are un historic injustice that time will fix no matter how much you shout or you compare it with Armagedon all the West knows now there wont be any long term peace and stability in balcans if you dont give back what you took by force. The blood of the ancients never stops asking and it never will. For you all those names are a point in the map, an economic topic, or even a simple land, for us is something more, its home and nothing is more sacred than that.

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MikeD

pre 7 godina

I heard that there are a few Albanians in Sweden too. Perhaps that should be part of greater Albania. There are far more Serbs in Europe then Albanians. Maybe we should reply in kind this time.

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Albanian American

pre 7 godina

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker .
(Albanian American, 21 April 2017 19:09)

Because the aggression and war mongering is coming from Albanians not Serbs. Dropping it in Belgrade serves no purpose. Try to pay attention instead of being ignorant of what you're commenting on.
(Navi, 21 April 2017 19:56)

Again: ignorant it's what you are, ignorant it's your culture ...
The aggression it's coming from the people who in the past 20 years have been involved in war with all their neighbors. Hello anybody home...
Belgrade was bombarded twice, you know why ?
Like they say " third time it's the charm " you will get it again tryst me, you been playing with fire yet again

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Vojvodina

pre 7 godina

Unfortunately, this is a toll for how we treated those people, and as long as we refuse to acknowledge the error of our ways and willingly pay that toll (ie. recognize Kosovo), they will take more and more of our land until Serbia is no more.

We won't save our country with lies and injustice, we will save it with fairness and honesty.

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Joni

pre 7 godina

If Albanians tried to unite into one state, I think they would succeed, however, the name of that state is likely to be called Turkey.
(Zoran, 21 April 2017 10:45)

Oh my dear, I bet that with 41 million Turks who claim the Ottoman empire lands – same as you claim Kosovo – you would be forced to go where you came from!
But wait - ‘where you came from, honey! Siberia, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan???
Because even Turks have more rights than you have – at least Turks were always there – you even don’t know where you came from, so what you want in Balkan? Hahaha!

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Free

pre 7 godina

Is there any prize "The most stupid politician in the Balkan"?

Because i`ve noticed a strong rivalry between Serb and Albanian politicians who will be the Nr.1 Idiot.

Till now the absolute winner was Dacic, but now he has rivals it seems.

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Gerhard

pre 7 godina

The Albanians are only offering evidence as to why they aren't permitted to have visa free status in Europe. Their misplaced arrogance is proof as to why the West and EU keep them under their thumb.

Preporučujem 31 Ne preporučujem 16
Hank the Tank

pre 7 godina

Its one think to say albanians will create greater albania and another one to actually do it. How many honestly think they will succeed? Albanians are known to huff and puff but when push comes to shove we all know what they are made of. Islamic state had similar thoughts and we all know what happened. I say let them dream. Thats why they are were they are, nowhere!

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 16
MikeD

pre 7 godina

Been seeing some reference to 'ancient lands' in the Albanian comments. Its funny how not one single scholar in the world thinks that any current society today has an actual link to Illyria. Most evakuate that this term was used as a reference for several types of people living in the Balkans. Maybe the Albanians will go after Narnia next?

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Prishtina

pre 7 godina

Step by step we will get there,why argue from mardar to niš in 50 year the will be no serbs in those areas serbs will disappear so why barging about war thats stupid just let them hang them self serbs.

This is not my opinion is from your serbs Science said it albanian in 100 year will dominate the balkan you why because serbs don't make kids anymore thats a fact so you internet warriors come down

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Just an observer.

pre 7 godina

Albanians are taking over through a war of demographics, which we have launched against the rest of the Balkans for the past 100 years. Soon you will all be a minority in your own countries not because of us, but because of your inability to procreate. A greater Albania is nothing more than original Albania before the powers that be cut it up and gave it to you at the expense of Albanian lives. In regards to Dacic and his comments, don't worry this time the Albanians you'll be facing will be armed just like the Serbs and Russia won't be there to supply you because they're almost broke themselves. The truth is Albanians aren't the ones you should worry about, Croats and Bosniaks are the ones who are a bigger threat to you. As for Albanian politicians they are a complete joke, Albanians could not care about their opinion. We will take our lands back but on our own terms.

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Ali Pasha of Ioannina

pre 7 godina

Kosova+Albania= Ethnic Albania

We will unite and so will Presheva valley as well. We are going to take back what we lost! Kosova was Ohly the beginning!

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

today Greece has nothing to do with the ancient Greeks…
joni
It's pretty obvious from your ignorant comment you haven't got a clue of what you're talking about. No serious world historian would ever claim that modern peoples are direct descendants of ancient peoples, at least in terms of DNA. What really matters is continuation (e.g. culture, language, occasionally religion) which ensures the historical sense of an evolving community through time. In other words, modern Greeks have those features enabling them to look back to antiquity without ignoring a number of differences with ancient Greece. Unfortunately,Turko-Albanians have nothing else to say than resort to historical myths, and anti-Greek propaganda.
find me a scholar who tell that Albanians came in Balkan
Albanians historical presence in the Balkans is for first time attested in 11th AD century. If there are so many modern historians claiming what you say,then show me at least one such.a modern one, who is still alive and not Albanian or half-Albanian, like that Mathieu Aref.If you really want to expand your knowledge on Balkan history may i suggest you take a trip to Turkey-i am being serious-and spend some time in the national library going through Ottoman history written by the Ottomans themselves and translated by the distinguished Ottoman historian Halil Inancik.If you’re really open-minded you’ll discover your true path which i am afraid is totally inconsistent with your nationalist delusions of grandeur.

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Nick

pre 7 godina

I'm Serbian I live in Vegas I Kent bilive that the serbs in Serbia are so stupid Serbia is to go to war take cosovo f*ck EU and stay brothers with Russia make seselj president it's the only way Serbia enyway must have a nother war enyway you look at it .. this your wake up call Serbia do it now or you are doomed forever

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shkipkurd

pre 7 godina

Albanians came from Middle East. Go back to Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran! Out of Balkan lands, this is no place for those backward troublemakers criminals and thieves and murderers. Just look at their faces! It shows all.

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Navi

pre 7 godina

Why drop in three different places . Just one in Belgrade and the problem will be solved even quicker .
(Albanian American, 21 April 2017 19:09)

Because the aggression and war mongering is coming from Albanians not Serbs. Dropping it in Belgrade serves no purpose. Try to pay attention instead of being ignorant of what you're commenting on.

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Albanian American

pre 7 godina

(Make Albania Natural Again, 21 April 2017 17:08)

But instead Albanians will have minimum 4 kids , witch means 3 million more in 15-20 yr.
serbs in the other hand will have less kids , like 1 ore none witch means your mortality it's up. Proven fact by the way.
Now that's how you make great Albania 🇦🇱 again

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rote

pre 7 godina

Joni - 2

Axioma is that history is a science (Ha!) of written sources. But in 14 century only Slavs and the Romeys of the Byzantine had grammar and written documents. They survived only in Vatican Library where you can reach only with direct order of the Pope himself. It's a 8 km long tunnel ... So talking about who were the first on the Balkans is like what was first egg or chcken.

Yet there are plenty of direct and indirect facts that let me suppose that your ancestors came to the Balkans in the Migration Period of 4-6 centuries (14-16 of Scaliger-Petavius) within the Great Slavic Horde also known as the Great Roman Empire, Mongo-Tatar, Meagaleon Tartaria, Velikoe Gosudarstvo, Ottoman Porta, India, Great Mogols ect.

Genetically you look like Semite peoples of Dagestan and Chechnia with a big Slavic component. Your ancestors had no writen history of their own like the rest on this planet. There simply was no need in it as well as there was no need in any nations before 17 century. Your story began to appear in 19 century when for the fisrt time some lands were mentioned as Shqiperia.

It happened because your neigboring Greeks broke away and you had to identify yourself somehow. In the Ottoman empire nobody called you Albanians coz the sultans were Albanians themselves while you belonged to 3 (out of 4) different nations of the empire - milliet-i Rum, milliet-i Katolik and milliet-i Muslim.

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cry me a river

pre 7 godina

Been seeing some reference to 'ancient lands' in the Albanian comments. Its funny how not one single scholar in the world thinks that any current society today has an actual link to Illyria. Most evakuate that this term was used as a reference for several types of people living in the Balkans. Maybe the Albanians will go after Narnia next?
(MikeD,

You let your ignorance show so easily. Check the archives of NY Times for starters. There are historians who link the two. It's your job to educate yourself.

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SHQIP 456

pre 7 godina

I love all the albo-hate here. We must really be shoving our shoes into many people's mouths. So whatever we're doing, it must be right.

O shqipetar, kenaquni me keto komentet urrejtese. Mos debatoni me keta. Matni suksesin tone me nivelin e urrejtjes te tyre.

Pershendetje, dhe boni gallate ketu. Te shofim sa do e publikojne keta komentin.

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Yugoslavian_Loyal

pre 7 godina

He said union, he didn't say country and when pressured internationally he will respond the same way. Politicians are all snakes no matter their blood line.

They use nationalist marks on one hand while robbing you with the other. Politicians of the balkan regions are pure thieves. Little comments like this still get our people reved up for nothing. It shows you the west have us under complete control and will spark a match whenever they decide they need a war here. Doesn't matter which side they take, there are no winners. Serbia and Albania have lost Kosovo. It is and always will be American land now (no matter what a fake title says). Nationalism is the currency in the Balkans and aslong as it is traded and common people are gullible, then war is always at our doorstep. Only question is when the West will let it come in.

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Yugoslavian_Loyal

pre 7 godina

Ring ring ring

Rama: Hello

Vucic: I need to get these protesters off my back. You need to say something to create a spark.

Rama: Ok, how about i say again Serbia needs to recognise Kosovo.

Vucic: I need something more this time otherwise it won't be enough.

Rama: ou ou ou, i got it. I will talk about Albania/Kosovo as one country.

Vucic: Perfect. Use the word Union just to cover your arse and call Thaci too, his monthly kickback is coming up and plus he owes me for turning the train around.

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100% Croat

pre 7 godina

@ Partizan

The Serbs are the ones that still dreaming.

GS - Never happend and never will.
Krajina - Wiped out in 4 days.
RS- Never to be recognised by int. community.
Kosova- Serbian flag never to be raised in Pristina ever again.
Sandzak- Muslims gaining strength, Mosques all over southern Serbia.
The Balkan region consider Serbs to be at a level where the Roma are.
The Serbs are an embarrassment to the so called Balkan region.

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Joni

pre 7 godina

Leonidhas my deearrr !
I have’nt why to go in Istanbul because i have Athens History University nearby. Here you have !
https://youtu.be/zNJ8sxOEHfU
https://youtu.be/NBDhUPXNiF0
I think Greeks need to go in Turkey to understand why Orthodox Middle Eastern Greeks were living in Turkey before that they were exchanged with Albanian white people. You just mixed yourself - so is to see you is Turk or Middle Eastern here. Have you been in Thessaloniki ? How did they look Leonidhas ?? Eeee ? Are you from Thessaloniky ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Albanians#Population_exchange_and_appropriation_of_property_.281923.E2.80.931926.29

And Turko – Albanians ?? Hahahahaha ! Like this one i bet ! Best male is considered in Turkey !
https://www.google.al/search?q=KIVANC+TATLUG&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK-bf15LzTAhXCbRQKHccxCvMQsAQINw&biw=1280&bih=894
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%B1van%C3%A7_Tatl%C4%B1tu%C4%9F
Wowwwww…, send me in Turkey for the next war.. Eeeheeee !

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Navi

pre 7 godina

Again: ignorant it's what you are, ignorant it's your culture ...
The aggression it's coming from the people who in the past 20 years have been involved in war with all their neighbors.
(Albanian American, 22 April 2017 01:20)

You're the ones talking about land grabs, ethnic cleansing, and Greater Albania. You're like Nazis blaming Poles and Jews for getting in your way of fulfilling your fascist dreams. You're the one being ignorant. You're the one with an ignorant culture. Stop embarrassing yourself before you're attacked.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Joni - 1

I know that you aren't interested in the truth and your only goal is to mud Serbs and thus try to legalize their lands where every meadow, every church and every village still has it Serbian name. Yet when the curtains are down it must be interesting who indeed we are and where we are from. So I repeat for all that Balkan peoples were formed under the Great Slavic Horde that invaded Europe in 1318 and by 1325 when Gengis Khan was poisoned they occupied eastern and central Europe including Balkans. Gengis Khan was not a name but a title - Khan of all the Khans in Turkic (capo di tutti capi for your besa understanding) while his real name was Georgy Danilovic. It gave name to the new dynasty that ruled the world for several centuries - the Rjurikovici. In Rus Rjurik (Yurik) and Georgy is the same name and you can still call every Georgy as Yury or Yurik. In European history they call him as St.George or Karl I. After his death his younger brother Ivan Danilovic finished the job seizing 100% of Europe and sent troopps to the ME and Asia. He topped all 3 branches of the state power (military, civil and religious) calling himself the Calif. His other Rus name was Batu Khan or Bati Khan that meant Father Khan or Papa Khan but now he is known as Karl II in Europe. In 1340 he died rather young leaving no heritage. He died in Rome - city that he established and where he had lived last years. Vatican was simply his Rus name Bati Khan.

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Hank the Tank

pre 7 godina

Joni

You know very well that albanians came with the turks. A mercenary army who came to Europe to help turks in exchange for money and power. If albanians were in the Balkans long before serbs what do you have to show for it? What did you build? There are Serbian churches from the 13th century, where are the albanian ones? Either you are the most incompetent people in the world or you should just admit you came from Kaukasus. If you indeed were the first people in Europe how come you are the shitiest place in Europe? Such s long history and but your still s backward, poor and undeveloped country. Let me guess! Its Serbias fault.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Its not a coincidence that the Albanoi tribe of illyrians lived in the same regions as Albanians inhabit today. its not a coincidence that "greek" was never mentioned as a tribe of ancient Helens, or any other ancient tribes of Europe.

its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate ancient scripts and toponyms especially from the Homeric era.

It's not a coincidence that Albanians are the people which preserved and still continue to nurture the oldest elements of ancient traditions passed down from generation to generation.

We know you golden dawn Greek Anatolian types, along with your fyromian serv chetnik forums compatriots cant stand this fact and are obsessed with trying to distort European history by any means necessary.

the more you try to lie about Albanian origins, the more the truth will come out for the lack of affinity modern Greeks have with ancient heritage and culture. Your Greek history is intertwined with Albanians whether you like it or not.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Its not a coincidence that the Albanoi tribe of illyrians lived in the same regions as Albanians inhabit today

Find me a modern historian who subscribe to such nonsense.Illyrians re not synonymous with Albanians..Illyrians and Albanians are different people. The fact is that the Balkans and the Greek peninsula were colonized by many, many different peoples during the late antiquity and the early middle-ages. Slavs, magyars, all these eastern peoples moved into these regions, settled and mixed with the already-present Hellenes and Illyrians.

Its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate ancient scripts and toponyms especially from the Homeric era.

What gives credence the Greeks claim to antiquity is the survival of a continuous literary tradition for three and a half millennia, from the earliest Linear B clay tablets baked on Crete to the modern Greek alphabet that has been in use for thousands of years. This continuity lends credence to Greek claims. A single literate civilization has survived.Albanians-on the other hand-didn’t have an alphabet until the 1920s.

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hass

pre 7 godina

"I heard that there are a few Albanians in Sweden too. Perhaps that should be part of greater Albania. There are far more Serbs in Europe then Albanians. Maybe we should reply in kind this time."

Yes most of these criminals turks live in Malmö. In fact there's so many of them there that they changed the name to MalmA

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Navi

pre 7 godina

We'll create ethnic Albania democratically and peacefully, or let NATO do it for us.
(Avni, 22 April 2017 00:27)

That will never happen, so stop sounding ignorant. NATO won't help you. They'll bomb you. That would be a nice thing to see.

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Azir

pre 7 godina

Kent

Try taking your own advice and kindly relocate to your dear Mother Russia who will eagerly accommodate you and your domestic partner...

You live the good life in America that you creatures hate so much but at the same time you worship degenerate Russia...

Go home to Russia Ignorant boy...

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Is there any ancient text that mentions Greeks dwelling in the Balkans or even regions like Morea? No, there isn't. So i don't know what you think you are going on about. But we do have records of Albanians being mentioned as natives of Macedonia and Illyria, hundreds of years before the creation of the modern Greek state and identity.

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sj

pre 7 godina

(BLACK EAGLE, 23 April 2017 23:27)

In the 150 million years of so called Albanian occupation of the Balkans please show me some evidence of that claim. Last I looked there were ruins left by early Greeks, Romans, Turks and even the Serbs, but not even a cave painting by the Albanians.
Earlier this year I had one of your compatriots attach a leaflet with pictures on archaeology found in Albania. He was claiming the pottery and statutes were made by Albanians when in fact it was obvious that the pottery was mostly ancient Greek and some Roman and the same with the statues.
I even had another claim certain words we use today was Albanian which, with once glance, had obviously been derived from classical Greek.
Go to the British Museum in London and spend a day there then come back and tell me all about your occupation of the Balkans. That’s if you can find anything Albanian that goes back to 300BC.
So now we can assume that people like Aristotle, Herodotus or Homer were not Greek but all Albanians? Stop playing with yourself, you will pull it right off.

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LOL

pre 7 godina

I love all the albo-hate here.
(SHQIP 456, 22 April 2017 23:57)

I love all the albo-propaganda. You guys are going into overtime with your delusions, deranged visions of fiction, and hyperbolic chest thumping nationalism far beyond what's normal around here. I'm almost convinced half the pro-albo comments here are from non Albanians deliberately writing this stuff just to keep the flame wars going. I say "almost" convinced because in any other situation, no one would be this stupid and naive in believing what's written. But these are Albanians we're talking about, and Albanians suffer from the biggest national inferiority complex in Europe. Plus, considering B92 is notorious for attracting the worst dregs of Albo-Illyrian Cyber Spamming, and it's almost more pathetic than hilarious the extents you'll go through to sound tough, strong, and important in the world. I really hope some of you are getting paid to waste this much time online, because if there isn't a media-relations firm that hires people to spam the internet, and this is genuinely a gaggle of angry albo dingdongs, you people are even more pathetic than I and many others thought :)

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Albanians are Turks

pre 7 godina

Because even Turks have more rights than you have – at least Turks were always there – you even don’t know where you came from, so what you want in Balkan? Hahaha!
(Joni, 22 April 2017 13:48)

I'm pretty certain a good Byzantine Greek would give the Turk a run for his money when questions surrounding who owns the land comes up. Both the Turk and the Albanian belong back in Central Asia.

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sj

pre 7 godina

Leonidhas my deearrr !
I have’nt why to go in Istanbul because i have Athens History University nearby. Here you have !
[link]
[link]
I think Greeks need to go in Turkey to understand why Orthodox Middle Eastern Greeks were living in Turkey before that they were exchanged with Albanian white people. You just mixed yourself - so is to see you is Turk or Middle Eastern here. Have you been in Thessaloniki ? How did they look Leonidhas ?? Eeee ? Are you from Thessaloniky ?
[link]

And Turko – Albanians ?? Hahahahaha ! Like this one i bet ! Best male is considered in Turkey !
[link]
[link]
Wowwwww…, send me in Turkey for the next war.. Eeeheeee !
(Joni, 24 April 2017 12:03)

What are you on?

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Joni
I guessed so. Cowards are always scared of the truth.You’re scared to find out of the Muslim Colonization of the Balkans(Fyrom,Kosovo,Bosnia) which consisted of Turks and Turcic people arriving in the area into their hundredths of thousands and settling in Christian areas.You are scared also to find out about the intense Albanian colonization of Fyrom from the end of the 18th century to the first half of the 19th century.So much for being indigenous to Fyrom.
With regard to your Cham pals-Chronologically speaking-Epirus was Epirus long before the Albanians name it "Chameria". Epirus was known as such since Odysseus's era, if not earlier, Chameria was a term invented when the Albanians settled in the region, during the Ottoman times.
When the Roman invasion of Ancient Greece occurred, the Romans didn't fight any Chams",but the three native tribes of Epirus:The Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians. When the Normans attacked the Byzantines in Dyrrhachium in 1081 did you see any Albanians around or taking part in the ensuing battle?
Instead you continue with your far -fetched claims of Illyrian descent and being indigenous to the region which have become masks for greater Albania. Modern Albania is as much of an artificial creation as Fyrom without a history It emerged as an Austro-Hungarian project in 1913 and ever since Albanians is dependent on outside assistance to survive. Your entire history before 1913 can be written in less than 100 pages.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

You are still trolling and obsessing over things that you yourself can not answer? It's a comical situation for someone like you to be sitting here trying to question someone elses heritage and history, while you don't even know your own heritage or history. You still haven't provided any ancient text that mention "Greeks' as an ethnic group prior to the 19th century. There was no mention of "Greeks" as an ethnic group anywhere in Europe prior to the late 19th century.

The work from Polybius and Ptolemy, along with the numerous chronicles mentioning Albanians as the natives during the byzantine period, is more than enough for any normal person to understand and conclude the historical pattern of ethnic groups.

The Albanians are the descendants of ancient Ilyrian and Macedonian tribes and you already know better than anyone else that this is the reality. But You are behaving the exact same way that fyrom Slavs behave with trying to distort European history using a modern political agenda. There are no international scholars or historians supporting the forums agenda of Greek golden dawn servian chetnik fyromian propaganda against the natives.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas
Paranoia is when you as a modern romi greek try to pretend that Albanians are not the indigenous people because of some weird complex you have developed together with your Yugoslav-fyrom-serb political compatriots.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Albanians are the descendants of ancient Ilyrian and Macedonian tribes ...
(BLACK EAGLE, 24 April 2017 17:41)

You started so well that i immediately gave you my "like" but then you've spoiled it all ... Now you give a single reliable sourse running that the two mentioned Slavic peoples were not Slavic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zSsw0LQMw

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The work from Polybius and Ptolemy mentioning Albanians as the natives during the byzantine period,
So Polybius who was born in 220BC and Ptolemy who was born around 100 AD were able to predict the future and assign the Albanians as natives in the Byzantine era. Nice try and it does confirm the ignorance of Albanian posters on this site.
There was no mention of "Greeks" as an ethnic group anywhere in Europe prior to the late 19th century.
Well,the following world historians do not share your view.
1.Aug.Heisenberg: "Byzantium is the christianised Roman state of the Greek nation (Staat und Gesellschaft des byzantinischen Reiches,p364)
2.Talbot Rice: "Byzantium has to be studied as a chapter of the long history of τhe Greek civilisation."
3: Ostrogorsky: "Byzantium,it always remained loyal to the Greek political ideals, and traditions of a Medieval Greek state." (History of the Byzantine state,p.217)
4: Gyula Moravscik: He says that it is preferable to talk about Greekology rather than Byzantinology (Byzantion, Vol.25 (1965) p. 291-301)
5Sture Linner: "The Byzantines... were always conscious of their Greek past" (History of the Byzantine civilisation, p. 219)
6Kurt Weitzmann. He writes about "The Greek blood in the veins of the Byzantines" (Greek mythology in Byzantine Art, p.207)
7 N. David: The Byzantine empire "in 6th century was more Greek than Roman" (p.23) and that Byzantine civilisation is a Greek spiritual world (p. 147 in the evolution of the middle ages)

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J

pre 7 godina

It breaks my heart to see so much hatred and blind nationalism displayed by Albanians on this forum, why did you allow your humanity to be poisoned by nationalism?
(Tearce, 24 April 2017 07:23)

Last time I checked the remains of Albanian babies where uncovered from mass graves under multistorey buildings in Serbia. If you want to talk about blind nationalism and hate you should start with that.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

I am fed up with the fairy tales with zreo proof that you believe in. So i'll be giving you only links that unmask your german made history.

http://chronologia.org/en/car_slav/czar02_28.html
http://chronologia.org/en/seven/chronology1.html

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Joni

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Greeks are partially European because you are mixed with Albanians.
Is easy to see it when you visit Greece. Sorry that's the truth.

For exmp. i find very interesting this:
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/rosetta.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone
Arvanites … Greeks???
Here you have the Arvanites in Greece, protecting their own nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristeidis_Kollias
https://youtu.be/j3IXS2R7uJQ
One of me most great man who make shushhhh… the Greeks. What Greeks had to tell to this Arvanite? My ancestors fought for Greece independence but we are Albanians. All Greece have is thanks to Albanians.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

-Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945)”, Volume II.
“It is funny but also sad, to see a social gathering of different Greeks, that is to say Chiots, Cretans, Albanians, Byzantines, Orientals, Ionian islanders and others, where upon the one mixes in Turkish words, the other Italian ones, the other Albanian ones, and in the same gathering, while they are all Greek, they cannot understand each other without the use of a translation or an explanation of each word as it is uttered, with the gathering thus turning into a Babel.”

-Politics in Modern Greece” by Keith R. Legg on page 86, “The term ‘Greek’ differentiates the language spoken by inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

Do you understand what this last quote is trying to express? it means that Greeks didn't even have their own ethnic name before modern Greece was created.

its not a coincidence that the modern Greek language can barely be used to decipher or translate the majority of ancient names and toponyms...that's why the Greek government had invested so much on deliberately changing the native toponyms across the modern Greece landscape.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Socrates http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Socrates+
Prodicus http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=+Prodicus
Thucydides http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Thucydides+
Demosthenes http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=+Demosthenes

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

There is no doubt nevertheless that the Illyrains, Thracians, and Macedonians were non-Greeks, or in the words of the ancient Greeks, "barbarians", which literally means people who spoke other non-Greek languages. 2. Macedonia became a world power when the Macedonian king Philip II conquered Thrace, greater part of Illyria, and the whole of Greece (except Sparta). At the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the Macedonian army destroyed the united Greek army, and put an end to Greek freedom and ancient Greek history. To secure the Macedonian conquest, Macedonian garrisons were established in the Greek cities, just like they were established in Thrace and Illyria. 3. Alexander the Great (336-323 BC), Philip II's son, took the Macedonian armies even further and conquered the Persian Empire, making Macedonia the largest and most powerful nation in the world for centuries to come. In his army next to the Macedonians, he utilized also troops from the Balkan nations that his father Philip II had conquered - Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The Greeks in the Macedonian army, however, were commanded by Macedonians, their contribution in the conquest was insignificant and miniscule, and modern historiography calls them nothing but Macedonian "hostages" who would ensure a good behavior of their friends and families back in Greece (Peter Green, Urlich Wilcken, Ernst Badian, Eugene Borza, A.B. Bosworth). Aware that the Greeks despised the Macedonians, To be continued

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The term Arvanitis is referring to the Greek orthodox people from Souli, Hydra, Spetsai and to groups of inhabitants in Mesogeia and stems from an entirely different root. In particular, from the word Arvanon , a toponym of N. Epirus mentioned, already since 11th century, in the texts of Anna Komnini. That is from Arvanon, from the Hellenic N. Epirus, Greek population speaking Arvanitika migrated down to towns and islands and Greece since the 14th century and integrated with the rest of the Greek population.The overwhelming muslim population of Albania joined the Ottoman Turks in their wars against the Greeks.Lets remind ourselves of the wars Ali Pasha contacted against Souli and how many Souliotes Greeks died in the process.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas the lying lion = big malaka

Illyrians were in the Balkans long before Hellenes , and so on. So, it's not clear what point you're trying to make, beside the academic discussion about the history of the Balkans.

You pseudogreeks lie to yourselves so much. YOU ARE NOT HELLENES. Albanians was in the Balkans LONG before you. Maybe if you didn't spend so much time lying to yourselves you can see how worthless every piece of land becomes once you occupy it. Greece produces nothing only bankruptcy. Chameria or south Epirus has become a Greek colony under your illegal occupation. Come back to reality.

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Partizan

pre 7 godina

To the mayor and all Albanians keep dreaming, and when you wake up you will realise it's just one big dream that will never never happen.

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sj

pre 7 godina

The EU and US are losing sleep right now after reading such a statement. How are the Albanians going to achieve taking over right up to Nis?

The Communists used to adopt this tactic. During the warmer months out comes the grand plans to wave to the populace to cool them down while in winter they went back into the draw as its too cold to wave them around.
Why do they allow the Albanians to make such statements when the west would scream from the top of Mount Everest if the Serbs mentioned a greater Serbia, simple its a little payback for supporting the west, but the west knows it all hot air and nothing else.

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Though we have no diplomatic relations I have to mind you as there's no evidence of conquests other than the Slavic invasion of the Migration Period of 4-6 centuries = 14-16 of Scaliger Petavius. In 17-19 centuries the colonization of the world including of the Balkans was exposed as multiple different invasions. They used real names of the Slavic tribes but sent them to different ages and countries. Yet 1000k of facts, names, toponymals have survived on every continent. Promice not to talk about Greece if you choose any continent and ask me to give you Slavic toponymals there. You may even chose 2-3 continents where you don't expect to see our footprints. By the way Greek Brahmans were inside our every horde.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

There is no such thing as "greekness" of Macedonia. This sounds like something a child would say. The idea that no historians deny the greekness of macedonia is just bullshit. What kind of "greekness" did Macedonia have?

Ancient Macedonians were linguistically Greek (at least the upper classes, who were the actual Macedonians and part of the population; the rest were Paeonians, but spoke a NW Greek dialect (close to Doric). Later on (i.e. in the time of Philip and Alexander) they adopted the primarily Atttic-based Koine Greek and the Athens-originating culture like most other Greeks did at the time.
If you want to convince me (and the world) that Phillip was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian, first you have to convince me (and the world) that:
1. Aristogeiton was not Greek because Demosthenes called him a barbarian
2.Demosthenes was not Greek because Aeschines called him a barbarian
3. The Eleans were not Greek because Stratonicus called them barbarians
4. The Thessalians were not Greek because Hegesander called them barbarians.
5. The Aeoleans were not Greek because Prodicus called them barbarians.
6. The Epirotes are not Greek because Thucydides called them barbarians.
7. Strepsiades was not Greek because Socrates called him a barbarian.
If you don't know WTF I'm talking about you can open some decent history book read and come back to me.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

The Albanians are the descendants of the late Illyrian and Macedonian tribes which inhabited this part of Europe long before the arrival of Serbs,

Albanian nationalists have always cherished the myth of a link between Albanians and Illyrians. It is very popular because it suggests that Albanians descend from an ancient people who populated the Balkans long before the Slavs and therefore provide a good excuse to steal land from their neighbours. The Austrian linguists Schumaker and Massinger who studied the few Illyrian texts and the Albanian language have already confirmed that Albanians have nothing to do with Illyrians. Matzinger points put that when the few surviving fragments of Illyrian and Albanian are compared, they have almost nothing in common.
“The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.” So much for your Illyrian ancestry.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

Zervas bandits were the most sadistic and depraved collaborationist movement in German occupied Europe. For sheer brutality, no other group came anywhere near them. They enjoyed torturing their victims. Even the Nazis couldn't stomach them, and that's saying something. Other groups committed reactionary crimes yes, but for organised premeditated atrocities the Zervas criminals were in a league of their own. They even had a concentration camp specifically for children. I am sure that most ordinary Greeks find their legacy revolting, and would rather consign them to their darkest period of history. Decent Greeks should have been out demonstrating against these cretins.

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Joni

pre 7 godina

(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 11:23)

Bla bla blaaa…. I asked to you a simple question Leonidas!

Why Greeks were living in Middle East Leonidas?
Are you Middle Eastern people?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

We don't have idiots like in Greece (GOLDEN DAWN) that hold rallies in their honor, commemorate WWII-era war criminals, organize political parties that uphold those beliefs, target minorities and other perceived undesirables as scapegoat for all their country's problems, and be called out by the HUMAN RIGHTS Center for fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance. Whatever collaborators that existed in Albania (and other countries in Balkans mind you) during that time, pales in comparison to anything coming out of Greece. Then or now.

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J

pre 7 godina

The term Arvanitis is referring to the Greek orthodox people from Souli, Hydra, Spetsai and to groups of inhabitants in Mesogeia and stems from an entirely different root. In particular, from the word Arvanon , a toponym of N. Epirus mentioned, already since 11th century, in the texts of Anna Komnini. That is from Arvanon, from the Hellenic N. Epirus, Greek population speaking Arvanitika migrated down to towns and islands and Greece since the 14th century and integrated with the rest of the Greek population.The overwhelming muslim population of Albania joined the Ottoman Turks in their wars against the Greeks.Lets remind ourselves of the wars Ali Pasha contacted against Souli and how many Souliotes Greeks died in the process.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 19:26)

I don't subscribe to Greeks having no connection to ancient Greeks but what you wrote about the Arvanites is total nonsense. An Arvanite and an Albanian even today can communicate in Albanian.Very easily in fact. You're placing language as the thing that makes up nations then you're somehow saying Arvanites are Greeks even though their language is not Greek. You're being intellectually dishonest, and that's because of blind nationalism. The Italians recognize the Arbereshe as having Albanian roots. The Greeks don't recognize the Arvanite. You can take an Arbereshe and an Arvanite and they can easily communicate with each other; yet the Arvanite somehow has no Albanian roots. C'mon dude; lay off the pipe.

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Junior999

pre 7 godina

Let's all admit the obvious: Multi-ethnic societies do not work in the balkans. Every person in the Balkans, is a nationalist deep inside. Serbs really want Kosovo back, but without the 2 million Albanians. That's not going to happen. In Bosnia, the idea that the Bosnians, Croats, and Serbs should live together peacefully together is basically a forced marriage, where each party wishes the other didn't exist. In Macedonia, Albanians and Macedonians wish that they didn't have to live together, yet, they are also forced in an arranged marriage. Montenegro breaks away from Serbia, and by all estimates, they are the exact same people! What does this tell you? The superpowers have given and taken land from one party to the other, back and forth, throughout history with no regards to the ethnic habitants of the region. Let's do everyone a favor and admit that each nationality wishes to live separate from each other. Do you really think Macedonians love the idea that 25-30% of their countrymen are Albanian??? Deep inside they hate Albanians and resent them, and secretly wish they did not exist... oh how great Macedonia would be without the Albanians they whisper in their dreams. Do you really think that Republka Srpska Serbs love the fact that they need to get an ok from Bosnians or Croats to celebrate a holiday?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

There is no such thing as Albanians migrating into the Balkans from any other regions and there isn't any type of historical evidence that supports this idea. This propaganda is product of only some small political groups in Servia, Greece and Yugoslav inhabited Macedonia. The quote by Plutarch doesn't speak of any real known people called as "Albanians" from the Caucasus region. And Alfred Artaud never denies Albanians as the indigenous population of Illyria and Epiri.

The Albanians are the descendants of the late Illyrian and Macedonian tribes which inhabited this part of Europe long before the arrival of Serbs, Turks and romioi rum Greeks. No historian or writer of histories have ever denied this reality.

The only recorded migrations we have of the Albanians is the illegal forced migrations carried out by Servia Turkey and Greece against the native populations of Macedonia, Illyria and Epiri. Your romioi rum Greek history is built from the forced expulsion of the natives and total destruction of the ancient culture.

You think you can emphasize something here on Asia and migrations?? Well that's where your romi-Greek heritage comes from...Anatolia Minor Asia. There was no mention of any Greek tribe or people inhabiting Europe before the late 19th century. The Creek sporadic arrival is well documented with the population exchanges between Turkey and modern day Greece.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

Do we need to go through another refresher course on Greeks being more Turkish than anyone? And what do you mean dare to do anything? Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians, That's why the Greek government spent millions of tax payer revenue on trying to bribe the local inhabitants into self identifying as "Greeks". and don't forget that the natives have a much more robust birthrate than the Turkogreeks in these regions. Within 2 or 3 generations, you wont even know what is Epiri-Cameria as Greeks had no critical link to Epirus before the 19thcentury.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

There is no such thing as "greekness" of Macedonia. This sounds like something a child would say. The idea that no historians deny the greekness of macedonia is just bullshit. What kind of "greekness" did Macedonia have?

The reality is that Macedonians did not speak greek or self identify as greeks. There is no real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Macedonians. For that matter, there isn't even real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Hellens, Macedonia is the last thing that would be considered as a legitimate argument for greeks.

We still have numerous pieces of works from historians and authors from the last 300 years or so which have all confidently placed Albanians as the natives of Illyria and Macedonia.

This is at a time when the modern Greeks didn't even have their own ethnic name used by the population. The Albanians are mentioned by name since at least the 2nd century B.C as living in the city of Albanopolis

You can repeatedly troll all you want ( part of your trolling MO), its still not going to change the fact that there is no ancient reference to "greeks" as a people or nation in the southern European Peninsula until after the late 19th century. What exactly do you think you can prove here ?

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

franknwalters


Macedonia has NEVER in history been part of any type of country or nation called as "Greece".

On the other hand, the Albanians are categorized by various authors as descendant of Illyrians and Macedonians a distinct ethnic and linguistic group inhabiting the Balkans at least 300 years before the creation of the modern Greek state, and before the advent of communism. So even if Albanians did arrive in the 10th century, that still places them on the map long before anything called as "Greek" or "Greece".

History and Historians in the Nineteenth Century - “General interest was first aroused by a controversy as to the racial derivation of the modern Greeks. The war of independence had won the sympathy of Europe; and it was a rude shock both to Greece and to her champions when Fallmerayer announced that her inhabitants were virtually Slavs. The race of Hellenes, he declares in his ‘History of Morea’ was rooted out and Athens was unoccupied from the sixth to the tenth century.

And to further emphasize: Politics in Modern Greece - “The term ‘Greek’ differentiates the language spoken by inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

“The term ‘Greek’ differentiates
the language spoken by
inhabitants of modern Greece from the languages of the surrounding
countries; but there is disagreement on what the Greek language was, is, and should be. At the time of independence, the range in local dialects was significant; a substantial portion of the population spoke Albanian.”

Politics in Modern Greece, Keith R. Legg, page 86

You see? at a period of history when the Albanians were already speaking their own language, and using their own endonyms, the modern Greek state was still trying to figure out from which origins they came from and from which language and name they should use.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

There is no real evidence to connect modern greeks with ancient Macedonians.

The usual Albanian and Fyromian propaganda which is exposed by the link below.

http://history-of-macedonia.com/2009/08/06/ottoman-census-of-hilmi-pasha-1904/

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

why do you choose weak sparring partners ?
there's only one man on this site who can destroy all your tales
are you ready ?
(rote, 24 April

Rote, I had a bad taste of your conspiratorial and anti-Greek mindset on our last exchange, so I know it is hardly any use talking to you on any issue in a sober manner.Your line of thinking involves such wild statements -amongst others-such as the past existence of Albanian empires or Jesus was in fact the Byzantine emperor Andronikos etc.. I do not share any of those views and lets leave it to that.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Do we need to go through another refresher course on Greeks being more Turkish than anyone? And what do you mean dare to do anything? Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians.
You probably need a refresher course in being turko-albanian.You’ve lived with them for 500 years in Muslim villages and mingled with them. Here is a quote by British Colonel Chris Woodhouse, head of the Allied Military Mission in Greece during the Axis occupation on your beloved Chams.,
"Chams are racially part Turk, art Albanian.In 1941-3 they collaborated with Italians & Germans, making the organization of guerilla resistance in that area difficult..Zervas encouraged by the Allied Mission under myself, chased them out of their homes in 1944 in order to facilitate operations against the enemy. They mostly took refuge in Albania, where they were not popular either. Their eviction from Greece was bloodily carried out, owing the usual vendetta spirit, which was fed by many brutalities committed by the Chams in league with the Italians.The Chams deserved what they got, but Zervas' methods were pretty bad - or rather, his subordinate officers got out of hand. The result has been in effect a shift of populations, removing an unwanted minority from Greek soil. Perhaps it would be best to leave things at that”.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Epiri-Cameria is already in the hands of the Albanians

Another Albanian lie another threat. Beginning in the 7th century BC, Greek cities were established on the Illyrian coast. The most important were Apollonia, Avlona ( Vlorë),Epidamnos (Durrës), and Lissus ( Lezhë). The rediscovered Greek city of Buthrotum (Ancient Greek: Βουθρωτόν, Vouthrotón) (Butrint), is probably more significant today than it was when Julius Caesar used it as a provisions depot for his troops during his campaigns in the 1st century BC.Not to mention the ancient city of Nikopolis or the sanctuary of Dodoni located in the modernCity of Ioannina prefecture.
As regards to your claims that Epirus is already in Albanian hands the truth is no Albanian is allowed to settle in the area. As to your threats, lets remind ourselves what happened in the last two occasions Albanians took part against the Greeks.In the battle of Bizani-the biggest battle of the Balkan war-the combined forces of the Ottoman Turks-Albanians were defeated and chased to Albania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bizani
It was the French and the British that saved them because they wanted to keep Italy within their Alliance.
The second occasion was in 1940 when the combined Italian and Albanian forces were chased up To Tepeleni. This time it was the Germans who saved their Italian and Albanian poodles.Next time you take arms against Greece we’ll chase you all the way to Tirana and there won’t be any mercy.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas


Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek? 1. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, separate from their neighbors, the ancient Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The ancient Greek and Roman historians tell us that the Macedonians spoke a separate Macedonian language and had their own customs, culture, and traditions. Archeological discoveries confirm that the material culture of the Macedonians also defer greatly from all of their neighbors, and it is by far more superior in artistry (gold, paintings, weapons, mosaics) then anything found in contemporary Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. The texts of the ancient writers distinguish the Macedonians from the ancient Greeks, just like they distinguish the Romans and the Carthaginians. Yet, like the other non-Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, and Thracians, the Macedonian high society also used the Greek language along with Macedonian. Greek was spoken by the nobility of many different ancient nations, just like French was spoken in the 19th century (at the German and Russian courts for example). Unfortunately there are only about 150 glosses that have survived of the ancient Macedonian language (most of them with no relation whatsoever with ancient Greek), and like ancient Carthaginian, Illyrian, and Thracian, it can not be reconstructed.To be continued

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

One of the things about me is that I focus on the arguments that someone presents and not the person; also known as playing the ball not the man. Of course I’m not perfect but I do make an effort to stay civil in what I write and I expect the same from my interlocutors who leave a comment.
Experience has taught me that when Albanians lose an argument-not that they had any- resort to swearing and name calling .As Socrates once said ““When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

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Tearce

pre 7 godina

It breaks my heart to see so much hatred and blind nationalism displayed by Albanians on this forum, why did you allow your humanity to be poisoned by nationalism?

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas

why do you choose weak sparring partners ?
there's only one man on this site who can destroy all your tales
are you ready ?

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rote

pre 7 godina

Leonidas : So Polybius who was born in 220BC and Ptolemy who was born around 100 AD were able to predict the future and assign the Albanians as natives in the Byzantine era.


Polybius http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Polybius

Ptolemy http://chronologia.org/cgi-bin/ks/ksearch.cgi?terms=Ptolemy++

PS - 1 no written sources older than 900 years are available and all of them are copies of some vanished copies ...

PS - 2 could you please give us sources other than the german and polish ones ? because we know that all your current history was written by the germans in 19 century and they decided who will be greeks and who will be albanians and who will be macedonians ... read more about henrich schliemann and the kind

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

I am fed up with the fairy tales with zreo proof that you believe in. So i'll be giving you only links that unmask your german made history.

[link]
[link]
(rote,

The problem is yours not mine. The whole world knows that Jesus died through crucifixion at the age of 33 whereas Andronikos-ancient Greek name meaning conqueror over men-was still sh----ng his various mistresses until his terrible death at the age of 67.This is verified by the 40 odd Greek Byzantine historians and the historical records held at Greek monasteries at Athos.
That's the main difference between you and myself.Trying to decipher ancient history one has to use the available tools at his disposal ie historiography and archaeology not Fomenko's pseudo-history.

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observing

pre 7 godina

Albanians are trouble makers. Not civilized people. They even come to Serbian sites to harass. Even primitive people didn't harass!

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

don't waste words!
simply read this book.

[link]
(rote,

Why do you waste yours? Why don't you take a trip to Turkey and read their recorded history.It's only 22 volumes.When you finish you can visit the national museum and see the thousands of Ottoman inscriptions and also Ottoman coinage (piastras and Liras).Each coin bears the head of the Sultan and the date it was minted.I was told there are more than 300 coins each reflecting a different period. When you finish all those tasks you come back and report whether Fomenko is still right.

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BLACK EAGLE

pre 7 godina

@ Leonidas

You have been asked twice (and counting) and you keep avoid answering to a simple question: is there ONE SINGLE ANCIENT text that actually exists, mentioning the Greeks dwelling the Balkans prior to 19 century? You can admit there's none, OR you can provide one. One would be enough...

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M.B.

pre 7 godina

@Yugoslavian_Loyal
---------------------

For both your comments - my sentiments exactly!

The sh**tty Balkan governments run by sh**tty Balkan politicians would fix all problems so quickly....if only the territories under their control were larger!

Morons!

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Junior999

pre 7 godina

(CONT'D). In the end, all of the conflicts are between countries that border eachother. Funny how Albanians have no issues with Croatia??? Or Macedonia has no issue with Montenegro??? That should tell you that a line on a map doesn't necessarily mean that's where the ethnicities are separated. Lets take today's "reality" on the ground and re-draw the borders. Wherever there are Serbs with huge majority bordering Serbia, that land reverts to Serbia (Srpska Repulika, Northern Mitrovica, etc). Wherever there are Majority Albanians bordering Albania, that land reverts to Albania. For smaller populations not bordering their respective "mother" country, a population exchange program can be created where they can choose to move, or continue to stay in the host country as a tiny minority. Tiny minorities are rarely a problem in countries. It's large minority populations that cause friction. Yes, countries will argue, it will be tedious, and no one country will be fully satisfied, but we will be able to move on much faster, and without the cost of war, bloodshed, and destruction fueled by the seemingly instinctual nationalism prevalent in all Balkan nationalities.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Zervas bandits were the most sadistic and depraved collaborationist movement in German occupied Europe.

That’s absolute b....ks.Zervas was a Souliote officer of the Greek army and he was a fanatic Venizelist (Liberal Partry) and served with distinction during the Balkan wars.After the occupation of Greece by Germany and Italy he and other officers of the Greek army formed EDES whose sole purpose was to fight against the occupying forces of Germany and Italy and the abolition of the monarchy. His EDES forces were one of the main participants in the blow up of the Gorgopotamos bridge. He was under the operational control of the British and never collaborated with the Germans –unlike your Cham pals.In restrospect,i think his bigger mistake was the expulsion of Chams.He should have arrested them and put them on trial for the death of more than 3000 Greeks and Jews.The sentence for enemy collaborators in Europe was the ultimate sentence.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek?

I will leave you with 2 quotes.

Alexander's own words are quoted as: "Men of Athens... Had I not greatly AT HEART the common welfare of GREECE I should not have come to tell you; BUT I AM MYSELF GREEK BY DESCENT, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery.... If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the GREEK CAUSE, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am ALEXANDER of MACEDON."
[Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45, translated by G.Rawlinson]

"It should be noted that there is NO CONNECTION between the Macedonians of the time of Alexander the Great who were a GREEK tribe and today's
so-called 'macedonians' of the 'Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia' or
FYROM, who are of SLAVIC origin and related to BULGARIANS." -
David H Levinson, 'The Encyclopaedia of Ancient Cultures'

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

I don't subscribe to Greeks having no connection to ancient Greeks.

You’re probably of a rare Albanian breed to say that because Albanians not only don’t believe that Greeks have anything to do with ancient Greece-in fact virtually all Albanian posters here argue that Greeks stole the Albanian history and converted it into Greek-they also believe that Greeks have never been in Southern Albania. Those who claim to be Greeks are Albanians and on the payroll of the Greek government. Not even Enver Hoxha would’ve made such a claim.

but what you wrote about the Arvanites is total nonsense.

As a Greek born ,raised and schooled in Greece i know that it was insulting to call an Arvanite school mate Albanian.This is probably due to the fact they were raised as Greeks and they had the Greek national conscience. Remember what Marcos Botsaris said “As a Greek i cannot feel free where the British flag flies”.As to the language,Greek was the only language they spoke.

You're being intellectually dishonest,

I think Albanians are dishonest for trying to force a false identity on Arvanites.They consider their ancestors Greek,their traditions Greek and their names were Greek.A number of them gave their properties to the Greek cause and were massacred by the very Albanians that now claim them as their own.Virtually all muslim Albanians fought by the side of the Ottomans until 1913 and did commit horrendous crimes by trying to stop Greek independence.

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rote

pre 7 godina

not Fomenko's pseudo-history.
(Leonidas, 25 April 2017 13:04)

don't waste words!
simply read this book.

http://chronologia.org/en/car_slav/index.html

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

You have been asked twice (and counting) and you keep avoid answering to a simple question: is there ONE SINGLE ANCIENT text that actually exists, mentioning the Greeks dwelling the Balkans prior to 19 century? You can admit there's none, OR you can provide one. One would be enough..

Plato’s tetralogies is the oldest surviving manuscript but there are also approximately 6000 Greek manuscripts of the new testament. Historians agree on the internal consistency of the New Testament documents which is about 99.5% textually pure. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

What you and other Albanian posters on this site fail to understand is what defines a nation is the language.Well the Greek language has been alive and kicking through the ancient times and Byzantium into modern Greece.The basis of modern Greek is the ancient language with the same alphabet.There are hundreds of books written by Greek Byzantine historians.

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J

pre 7 godina

Leonidas, the majority is not this forum. Travel is deadly to bias. Visit Albania sometimes. Meet people form opinions.

Second, I'm not arguing against the Arvanites identifying as Greeks in the last 100 or 200 years or even 300 years.I'm arguing against the idea that Greeks espouse that the Arvanites even though they speak a form of Albanian do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity. Likewise, nobody questions the Arbereshe being Italian. But saying they do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity, they do speak a form of Albanian, it's just nonsense.
Third, former Greek ministers and Presidents spoke "arvanitika" at home. Yet they identified with the Greek culture and nation. Point is, one can originate from one ethnicity and as generations pass identity with another ethnicity. The two are not mutually exclusive.

All of the questions of the Arvanites are sensitive to Greeks because the majority I've come across believe there are no other ethicities/minorities living in Greece. That's also nonsense. With all the wars through history in the Balkans, there was no village that ended up on the Greek side other border? Only Greeks ended up on the Albanian side? That line of logic is so bad, it's comical. It's why Greeks take this extreeme view that the Arvanite MUST have started only as Greeks otherwise we've gotta admit we've got minorities among us. This is stupid too. If they identify as Greek today you don't have to, but don't deny the roots based on politics.

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Leonidas

pre 7 godina

But saying they do not originate from the Albanian ethnicity, they do speak a form of Albanian,
These are not valid arguments. It is quite clear by now that all you are interested in me is accepting that Arvanites are Albanians despite the fact that they are against such inclusion and instead they declare themselves as a population of Romanized Geeks not "current Albanians".I did say in my post below that there isn’t a modern historian who confirms beyond any doubts that Albanians are connected to ancient populations. Greek Byzantine historians hardly mention the Albanians and when they do it’s after the 11th century AD.Even Malcolm the Albanian’s favourite historian ends his diatribe with a statement “ I am bewildered when and where Albanians came from”.

All of the questions of the Arvanites are sensitive to Greeks because the majority

You are simply wrong, if not biased: Greece does accept the right of its citizens to self-determination on an individual level alongside admitting the existence of certain minorities with 'legal' status; in other words, Greece admits the existence of a Muslim minority in Greek Thrace, made up of Turks, Bulgarian-speaking Pomaks and Gypsies, as stated in the international Lausanne Treaty.Arvanites they’ve been to Greece since the 13-14th century when there was no Greek nation and Greece was occupied either by the Venecians or Ottomans.Therefore,there was an osmosis between native Greeks and Arvanites as one population..

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