Monday, 02.07.2012.
09:21
President Tomislav Nikolić has urged parties to form a government as soon as possible, "in order to open a whole new chapter in the Kosovo negotiations".
Izvor: B92
IMAGE SOURCE
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icj1, 4 July 2012 16:45)
Well how many of your allies have invested in Kosovo in the last 13 years?
It a Chinese owned bank mate not Malaysian. They are mostly Muslims who sit under a coconut tree waiting for a coconut to fall before they can have dinner. It’s the 3% of the population, Chinese, that run the economy.
Actually Albos and indigenous Malaysian are much the same – except everyone else to work for them.
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Of course when the tough question come on line I’m clueless. You see I am in this business of knowing which countries are viable and which are not
(sj, 4 July 2012 14:19)
This is the sj I like... show these people their place sj; they are clueless and they don't understand that they are speaking with one of the most illustrious minds of global econonomy and finance as demonstrated by the fact that you've been hired by a Malaysian merchant bank and you are the CE of the 92 forums. What are the qualifications of you people who dare to question sj's economic and financial analysis ?!
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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(a New Day, 4 July 2012 13:40)
Of course when the tough question come on line I’m clueless. You see I am in this business of knowing which countries are viable and which are not and Kosovo is f… and no amount praying, having a warm and fuzzy feeling will help it. The difference between Serbia and Kosovo or for the rest of that region is that it has the potential to move forward; the others do not.
Serbia’s economy was destroyed by the western bums who are paying the price in their own way now. The aim is to create a consumer economy much like where you live now so you have to attrack work so you have employment then even if that work leaves because of higher wages it matters little.
When you answer the question “how many of your allies have invested in Kosovo in the last 13 years” honestly then you will come to terms with what is going to happen to it.
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(sj, 4 July 2012 13:00)
You are totally clueless and nothing will ever change that. Your best bet is to join the 500 yr group, you know the ones that are going to wait for 500 years and retake Kosovo. That is about how long it will take for Serbia to become economically and politically sound in order to undertake such a task.
Your economic reasoning of being a cheap labor drawing card for investment in Serbia is either a short term boost or doomed to keep Serbia in a low class system forever. Who do you think these cheap laborers are going to be. Ask anyone in Serbia if they are happy with their salaries now and if that is exactly where they want to be in 25 years.
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(a New Day, 4 July 2012 07:07)
All those neighboring countries and their fabulous salaries are myths. No one is investing in Croatia or Slovenia because they are too small and that is the very reason why the EU wants closer cooperation between them and Belgrade to create a large option for investors.
In the 21 centrury where communism is dead and socialism is alive in name only and capitalism has won, who is going to invest in Kosovo on the chance that they might make a profit? If that is so list the companies that have opened up for business there. Kosovo will sink without EU handouts
“. So the answer to your question as to how is Kosovo going to become economically independent? The answer is to develop within with the help of those who support Kosovo and staying away from any connection with Serbia. “
What do you develop from within mate? Kosovo does not have enough water or minerals; it imports mostly everything and has no capacity to produce. Its energy comes from generators not coal fired station or hydro power. Who do you think is going to invest? and don’t you think after 13 years something would have happened by now?
Kosovo was important 10 years ago but now it not and this entire BS about being a nation state is just that BS. The west in what the Japanese call saving face mode; they can’t admit what they did was wrong so they are going around in circles, but they want to connect Kosovo to Serbia’s economy to save money for Brussels.
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That is how the upcoming economic world powers started through low wages and therefore built their economies up. China 30 years ago was a peasant economy today it has 400 million middle class.
Wow that sounds impressive, but what if you introduce reality with the sugar coating.
Middle class in China would be families making between 10,000 and 60,000 a year so in reality many middle class in China would be below the poverty level in western countries.
With 400 million middle class (probably stretching it) that still leaves a lower class of almost 1 billion people. China can continue to pay people half the salary of Serbs for many, many years to come.
Serbia has a cheap market for labor, but that is very limited, that can be marketing strategy for 2-3 years at most then you are going to have to rely on other incentives like low tax structure for industry which places a higher burden on a low income individual. Also maintaining an affordable transit system for goods in and out of the country which guess what, means that Serbia has to increase its cooperation and dependence on its neighbors the EU.
Also due to the small number of people in Serbia inorder to continue to keep labor costs at an advantage will eventually lead to a high influx of migrant workers from other areas, as seen in the European economy. (Oh my,no more pure society, Albanians will be the least of your problems) Who knows by 2025 Serbs could reach a level of less than 50% of the population.
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Ian, the fastest growing 'industry'(!) in Kosovo is BS. There are regular reports that foreign investors won't touch it with a bargepole. How many failed privatization of the postal/telecoms/energy sector do you need to understand? Those who have taken the risk have been burnt.
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sj, 3 July 2012 12:35)
You have the gift of gab for sure. Instead of trying to answer a question you cloud the issue to deflect from it.
Bottom line is NO Serbia does not have the ability to offer anyway of building the economic structure of Kosovo, plus the lack of desire.
Serbia is struggling, and it will take years to build itself as in your references to China. The one thing you omit is that in China and India, they have built themselves on cheap labor of which they have a massive pool to draw from. Serbia has drawn some in because of their cheap labor market surrounded by a larger market of higher priced labor. The problem with that Serbia can remain economically depressed in the private sector and continue to draw in industry or it can advance with competitive salaries(which is the goal of ordinary people) and remove the incentive of coming to Serbia.
If wages reach that of neighboring states industry will then seek more stable political environments.
So if you lay the cards on the table, the people of Kosovo have a far better chance at a future without Serbia than with.
thanks for the non answer.
So the answer to your question as to how is Kosovo going to become economically independent? The answer is to develop within with the help of those who support Kosovo and staying away from any connection with Serbia.
Come back when you have results and not dreams of a future.
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What really repulses me in al of this is that Serbia destroyed almost everything in Kosovo during the war, and here we have Serbs mock Albanians for having difficulties with rebuilding the country from ruins.
It's like your neighbor burning your house to the ground and laugh at you because you are not able to build your house right away. It's sick!
(Red&Black, 3 July 2012 18:54)
This is unacceptable that you offend in this way the CE of the B92 forums sj who is known by all contributors here for his/her unparalled analysis in economic and financial issues and his/her excellent sources (like secret high level meetings that he/she knows about and the info from his/her legendary Malaysian friend).
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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(Red&Black, 3 July 2012 18:54)
Two reasons why Kosovo will not join Albania. First is that the EU will not allow it to happen and secondly Tirahna does not have the financial resources to make that happen as it requires millions if not billions of Euros to properly integrate the two regions. It would ruin Albania financially.
Foreign industry would not relocate to Croatia because in Jadranka Kosor’s word “we are too small a country and its uneconomic for industry to come here”. Croatia has a population of 4.2 million; Kosovo has 1.2 million.
Yes some terrible things did happen during the war and its not just the Serbs but why are large numbers leaving Kosovo and looking for work in Serbia? Belgrade has sent hundreds back. Why would anyone go and work for the same people who did these terrible things to them? I would’nt.
Even if nothing was destroyed in Kosovo and even if all the “industry “ was left in tact, Kosovo cannot survive on its own. I am not mocking you when I say it’s a nice dream but that is all it is.
You work out the maths on unemployment. 1.2 million people and about 730,000 are working age; then take 330,000 (unemployed from that and you have 400 000 working, but only because of EU money. Take away EU money and you have 95% unemployed.
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Sj, let say you are right. Let say Kosovo can't stand on its own, what in the world makes you think that Kosova would want to rejoin Serbia (in order to survive) and not Albania with whom they have much more in common than with you? So you think that Kosova-Albanians would rather prefer to go back to Serbia which just 13 years ago tortured them, massacred them, raped them, expelled them, and not reunite with Albania which would give Kosova access to the Adriatic Sea, an important factor for economic development.
And as long as about a million Kosova-Albanians can afford to go for vacation to Albania, Montenegro and Turkey each year, than you don't have to worry about their financial situation. Under Serbian rule the unemployment rate among Albanians in Kosova was about 95%, now its somewhere 50%, thats a decline of 45%.
What really repulses me in al of this is that Serbia destroyed almost everything in Kosovo during the war, and here we have Serbs mock Albanians for having difficulties with rebuilding the country from ruins.
It's like your neighbor burning your house to the ground and laugh at you because you are not able to build your house right away. It's sick!
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Another Albanian academic with literacy problems. I’ve never said that there was full employment in Serbia, but here is a little puzzle for you. Do tell us all how is Kosovo going to survive on its own two feet. Serbia has more industry opening up every year but lets not discourage you from mentioning how many western industries have opened for business In Kosovo? Microsoft, Ford or perhaps VW or ??????????
My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
(sj, 3 July 2012 01:17)
Well Kosovo also has industry openeing every year too. Kosovo has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, not to mention unemployment is rapidly deceasing. Retail, Trade, Agriculture, Contruction, Banking and Natural Resources (Kosovo has high levels of lead, zinc, silver, nickel, cobalt, copper, iron and bauxite) are to be the backbone of Kosovo's growing economy. Not to mention that the low tax rates and huge young labour force have proved to be attractive for foreign investors.
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(a New Day, 3 July 2012 11:25)
True there are still many uneconomic government run enterprises in Serbia. That needs time to dispose of those industries without causing more economic hardship. Unemployment in Serbia is about 25% to 30% but it’s the same in all the other surrounding countries such as Romania or Bulgaria or Hungary or Croatia. Governments hide real unemployment figures because it just looks bad such as the US which claims it only has 8.2% when even its own academia say its anywhere between 22% and 25%. Some academics claim it’s even higher.
Wages are low in Serbia but that also attracts industry as Fiat has only two days ago decided to close factories in France, Austria and Germany while it will pour more investment in Serbia. That is how the upcoming economic world powers started through low wages and therefore built their economies up. China 30 years ago was a peasant economy today it has 400 million middle class.
Kosovo is very poor and has nothing to offer foreign investment unless it is somehow linked to Serbia itself – much like what happened during the old Yugoslavia where industry was spread i.e one industry had parts made all over that country. That is what the EU expects from Serbia to do otherwise Kosovo is in a hole. You can work on it for the next 1000 years and the answer is still the same - you cannot survive on your own. No one said that even if Kosovo is reunited that Belgrade will create a Utopia and neither will Brussels.
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My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
(sj, 3 July 2012 01:17)
Maybe your quesiton should be more concerned with what will Serbia DO if Kosovo were returned to it to make it economically sound. Considering that Serbian wages are among the lowest in Europe and the balkans, also with an unemployment rate of close to 30% or more how they will economically handle acquiring another 2 million people with an unemployment rate of greater than 50%.
When the govt is able to acquire a steel factory for the high price of $1 and still cannot afford to keep it operational. I think resources are running thin.
Because you do realize that the funds poored into Kosovo now will not be there should it once again be Serbia.
So you work on the answers to those problems and when you come back in 30 years maybe there will be a system in place to guarantee the success of Kosovo!
It is easy to sit back and throw out questions and be smug because someone does not have all the answers, it also diverts attention away from how much one actually knows.
So lets hear How is Serbia going to turn Kosovo into an economically successful province????
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When you tell me how Kosovo is going to survive with no industry, not enough water resources; no minerals of any kind and people living off electricity produced by generators
(sj, 2 July 2012 12:39)
I'm sure Kosovo residents highly appreciate your deep concern for their well being. Given that you are the CE of the B92 forums you may well offer your excellent advising services in economic and financial matters to Kosovo's communities to address the issues that you correctly pointed out above.
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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(J.Oker, 2 July 2012 15:10)
Another Albanian academic with literacy problems. I’ve never said that there was full employment in Serbia, but here is a little puzzle for you. Do tell us all how is Kosovo going to survive on its own two feet. Serbia has more industry opening up every year but lets not discourage you from mentioning how many western industries have opened for business In Kosovo? Microsoft, Ford or perhaps VW or ??????????
My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
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These kind of people and comments, fighting to decide who is poorest one remembers me an italian quote of Giovenale.
"L'amara povertà non ha in sé nulla di più crudele del fatto che rende ridicoli gli uomini."
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(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 14:52)
Sadly it comes to me to tell you that yes Germany is showing signs of starting into a recession – you see where I work we have to know, but Berlin will wait for another six months to tell everyone that there is a problem. Let me give you a little lesson in how it works- German banks lent all that cheap money to Greece, Spain etc so those countries can buy German products and now that these same countries are in trouble so are the German banks an since there are no cheap loans it is now evident that production is faltering.
I love the part of rule of law - stop watching US TV as you can’t have rule of law while you piss on your own ethics mate. Rendition, Gittmo bay, military tribunals, no adherence to international laws, condoning torture and so it goes on.
Now this is the best part. I ask for you to tell me how Kosovo is going to stand on its own two feet and I get “The average income is not much higher than that of Kosovo for instance;”
Little Willi this tells me all I need to know about you. If Serbia goes broke it does not have far to go, but when the EU goes bang it will be from a great height – enjoy your sinking living standards as Beijing props you up.
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He noted that two days after his election victory on May 20, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sent her congratulations, "first congratulating him on his victory, the democratic elections in Serbia", and then saying that "now we will finally solve the issue of Kosovo".
--
The question really is what has Nikolic agreed to? Why would Clinton say something like that? Why are they happy about Nikolic becoming president?
No government formation after such a long time. What I'd like to know is whether the SPS/URS are being setup to pave the way for an SNS/DS government. There is lots of mud being thrown at the SPS of late but it will need much more to give the SNS an excuse to abandon them.
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so we hope to cee the new government to continue negotiations with Pristina.
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Re: "For that reason I insisted that he tells me what had been agreed," noted Nikolić.
Why does he have to ask an EU official about something his government agreed with and signed for?
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"For that reason I insisted that he tells me what had been agreed," noted Nikolić.
You know very well what has been agreed.
The president added that while the Kosovo dialogue should be raised to a higher level - this level was not presidential, "as has been misinterpreted publicly" - but rather that of prime minister.
Good, I am dying to see Thaci and Dacic meet. Thaci will have a fun day laughing with Dacic and maybe even twisting Dacic's ear till he begs Snake to stop it.
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"failed state body and people not talk about economy, environemnt, neighbours, not education."
Adem
First of all its "no education" and not "not educattion" then again you need education to be able to write.
Serbs a failed people! Ha ha ha! Coming from the ultimate failure of a human being. The alb! Right now, Djokovic and Troicki are playing against eachother in Wimbledon. When was the last time two albanians played against eachother in a dominant world sport? Never! The only time two albanians meet head to head internationally is when they share prison cell. Ha ha ha!
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The future of these talks seems bleak. As another person stated earlier, belgrade isn't able to form a government while Pristina has disbanded its chief mediator (Edita Tahiri).
Let alone now Belgrade faces conditions from Brussels about normalization of relations with all its neighbors AND conditions from Pristina that all agreed technical matters to be fully implemented before resuming the talks.
Sincerely,
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Many People think that sometimes it is Sensible to see if everyone is happy with an Agreement, because only mutually acceptable agreements will benefit everyone.
This is because there is a strong perception by Many People that Boris Tadic is a Puppet and Traitor, and that he appointed another Puppet and Traitor, Borislav Stefanovic, to be the Negotiator, and there are contested clauses in that agreement by Borislav Stefanovic.
There could be matters that are Unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court needs to be asked that.
One of the Highest Principles of any Democracy is that a New Parliament is not bound by anything that the Old Parliament did, but they are restrained by the Constitution.
The way to test the current agreement is to scrap the entire controversial agreement that has been accused of being Fabricated in parts by the EU, and begin the Negotiations again.
This would be Sensible, given the changed circumstances that The International Steering Group for Kosovo decided on Monday to end the international supervision of Kosovo's independence.
These changed circumstances could change the attitude of the New Parliament to scrap, amend, or fine tune certain parts of the contested agreement, because of Deliberating on the matter.
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Eagle
Interesting to read you analasys of the situation in Serbia. However, its not Serbia who remains isolated and unrecognized, its Kosovo.
Adem
You said Sandzak is full of bosnians. That's not true. Because we have most of them here in Sweden commiting crimes together with their Kosovo albanian friends. What do you think would happend once Kosovo gets white shengen? You will see the greatest voluntary mass exodus of people in the world. Not long ago a k-alb was caught hiding in the trunk of a car in Serbia. That's how desperate he is to leave paradise Kosovo. Look at Albania some years ago when the entire country wanted to leave to Italy. Hundreds filled a tiny little boat. How can you be proud of being rag tag nobodys? You suck at everything exept being a burden to everyone else.
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Nikolic and Dacic will recognise Kosovo.
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Willi you say Serbia needs to look ahead, and then the next sentence you say it has to come to terms with its past. Make up your mind!!
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"One of the main reasons is that Serbia was never able to get itself out of the old thinking, wasts money on lost dreams like Kosovo, was never able to corruption under control (same as in Kosovo), was unable to establish rule of law, and a sound environment for foreign investments(same as Kosovo, again). Serbia needs to look ahead, turn itself into a liberal, modern society, and start dealing, coming to terems with hois past, before it can go on. ...
The current power constallation in Belgrade will not be able to achieve these goals. It would be a huge surprise if they would succeed."
(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 14:52)
You can add 'same as in Kosovo' for the last two sentences as well - with the only difference that there donor money is wasted and there's no need for a sound environment for foreign investments because no major company would consider to invest in a place like Kosovo.
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To all those who urge Serbs to make peace with the neighbors by recognizing Kosovo - according to your logic every war could be stopped at any moment - all you have to to for it is to give in to your enemies/advirsories/compiteters whatever they want.
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What Kosovo talks? Serbia isn't able to form a government.
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Negotiations are continuing, with new characters!
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" The EU planned for Serbia to become good neighbours and allow the Albos to look for work as industry is opening up in Serbia, but that is all over."
(sj, 2 July 2012 12:39)
Sure! Everybody knows that Serbia is highly industrialized and has 100,000s of empty jobs which cannot be filled with Serbs because Serbian citizens enjoy an unemployment rate of 0-1%. LOL
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I fully agree that the new cabinet is due to open a new chapter on Kosovo,
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sj, you don't even know what u are talking about. Germany is not in a recession, and don't know where u get the rest of your strange info. Even if that would be the case, like many times before, and not like u said, now for the first time, it would pull itself out of it, because the basic economic and political structers are in takt and work fine. This bs about the EU will break up is nothing but wishful thinking on your part. The Euro will survive as well, even it remains to be seen if Greece will stay in the Euro zone. The serb economy is in real bad shape, there is even talk now that Serbia might go bancrupt soon. The average income is not much higher than that of Kosovo for instance; Euro 320 vs. 360. Not a huge difference if u ask me. Any why? One of the main reasons is that Serbia was never able to get itself out of the old thinking, wasts money on lost dreams like Kosovo, was never able to corruption under control (same as in Kosovo), was unable to establish rule of law, and a sound environment for foreign investments(same as Kosovo, again). Serbia needs to look ahead, turn itself into a liberal, modern society, and start dealing, coming to terems with hois past, before it can go on. The current power constallation in Belgrade will not be able to achieve these goals. It would be a huge surprise if they would succeed.
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(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 11:05)
Russia will enslave Serbia and Serbia needs a free Europe. Free of what mate? Do you really understand what you are talking about? Because this is just paraphrasing the usual Radio Free Europe crap.
MONEY rules everything and everyone in this world. There is no such thing as a free lunch as someone always has to pay even in a soup kitchen. You’re talking about a Europe that no longer exists; an EU that is barely hanging on by its finger nails because the money has run out. Joining the EU prior to 2008 meant money being given to that country by the truck load – The music has stopped playing and it’s now time to pay the orchestra. The EU is getting loans from China to stave off collapse; Germany has started to go into a recession (for the first time) and the consequence are horrendous for the EU.
When you tell me how Kosovo is going to survive with no industry, not enough water resources; no minerals of any kind and people living off electricity produced by generators then you can say no renegotiations otherwise its back to the future – there is no other way. Not one so far has managed to tell me how Kosovo can stand on its own two feet and I have been asking this question for 3 years now. The EU planned for Serbia to become good neighbours and allow the Albos to look for work as industry is opening up in Serbia, but that is all over.
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Actually I don't blame Nikolic for being impatient with the political parties who are too busy dividing up the cake than to focus on policy.
I know Kosovo Albanian visitors to the site will want to talk about Kosovo, but until a Serbian government is formed nobody knows what the hell is going on. I'm under the impression that the Kosovo policy will remain the same.
'Nikolic added that he supports the SNS's position that tycoons should not decide on the formation of a government' - Again this reference to Miskovic and his hatching of a government including G17 and SPS. Its a ridiculous stance as SNS has already given in to SPS demands to include G17. As I've mentioned before the most famous (Kosovo) Serb tycoon Bogoljub Karic is an open sponsor of SNS, so the point is even more stupid.
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he doesn't get it, and this loosing combination of little Slobo, and him will run Serbia even deeper into the ground. Serbia neeeds a relvolution. People going out on the streets telling these bimbos they had it, and want a free society, leave the baggage of the 90's behind, and look forward, not backwards. But, I have little hope that will happen, because too many people are still wrapped up in this old way of thinking. Wrong nationalism, the one which is coupled with politics and religion has never gotten any country forward, it will just stop progress. Foreign invenstments in Serbia will go back tremendously because nobody in Europe is happy about what is happening in Serbia, and therefore the ecconomy and the people will suffer even more. Russia won't be your savor, it will make only even more more unfree. Who in his right mind would want to live under a dictatorship like the one Putin has set up in his country. Serbia should work towards joining the West, but even there is a misconception. The Eu doesn't need Serbia, but Serbia needs the EU to survive. There will be no renegotiations of agreements as Nicolic wants, and Serbia has to deliver to go even a little bit forward now. Who do those politicians thnik they are? As I said, Europe doesn't need Serbia, but Serbia needs the free Europe.
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sorry but my post should have said no one from the Serbian govt bothered to ask what did you discuss today not Kosovo.
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If Nikolic was allowed to recognize Kosova, so they can move on and get over it, he would definitely do it in a heart beat. Majority of Serbian citizens are ready and willing to let go of Kosova, so Serbia can proceed and maybe succeed. Currently, Serbia is suffering economically, and let's not throw any jokes around about how Russia will help. Nikolic knows where he stands when it comes to Kosova. He has to say I will never Recognize Kosova, he got elected just by repeating that very same sentence. The day will come when the actual real Serbians will take over the government, and do the right thing. Which is to build good relations with all of the neighboring countries, and move forward not the other way around. For now I guess Serbians have to suffer until that takes place.
ARI GOLD, I am still waiting for your dreams to come true.
That is when NATO will leave Kosova, Serbia will take over Kosova.
The Independence will be reversed. I am holding you accountable to your own remarks.
Peggy. I saw that you mentioned how 1500 Serbian bikers put fear on Kosovar Albanians. Stop fooling yourself lol, 50,000 Serbian troops left Kosova back in 1999, yet your 1500 Bikers are going to scare us? Hahahaha
You won't have good relations with Kosova or Albania until you Serbs stop causing problems. We really don't care if you recognize Kosova or not, tha's harming Serbia more than anyone else. A real extremist Albanian would wish Serbia never does recognize Kosova.
Cheers From ALBANIA
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As usual, failed state body and people not talk about economy, environemnt, neighbours, not education.
Only Kosovo.
No hope for this country.
Kosovo soon without Serbs, Sandzak and Bosnia majority Bosniak in one generation.
No hope for dreaming Serbian fantasists not living in 21 Century, stuck in 1389.
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It amazes me that no one in Serbia knows what was agreed upon in the talks. I do not think I would admit that. The talks had been highlighted in the press nearly everyday for the last year. You have a govt appointed negotiator there, and no one from the Kosovo govt or anywhere ever asked "well what was discussed today?"
Maybe the UNSC should appoint someone to supervise Serbian independence because it is apparent you have no clue how to govern yourself.
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As usual, failed state body and people not talk about economy, environemnt, neighbours, not education.
Only Kosovo.
No hope for this country.
Kosovo soon without Serbs, Sandzak and Bosnia majority Bosniak in one generation.
No hope for dreaming Serbian fantasists not living in 21 Century, stuck in 1389.
pre 13 godina
It amazes me that no one in Serbia knows what was agreed upon in the talks. I do not think I would admit that. The talks had been highlighted in the press nearly everyday for the last year. You have a govt appointed negotiator there, and no one from the Kosovo govt or anywhere ever asked "well what was discussed today?"
Maybe the UNSC should appoint someone to supervise Serbian independence because it is apparent you have no clue how to govern yourself.
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If Nikolic was allowed to recognize Kosova, so they can move on and get over it, he would definitely do it in a heart beat. Majority of Serbian citizens are ready and willing to let go of Kosova, so Serbia can proceed and maybe succeed. Currently, Serbia is suffering economically, and let's not throw any jokes around about how Russia will help. Nikolic knows where he stands when it comes to Kosova. He has to say I will never Recognize Kosova, he got elected just by repeating that very same sentence. The day will come when the actual real Serbians will take over the government, and do the right thing. Which is to build good relations with all of the neighboring countries, and move forward not the other way around. For now I guess Serbians have to suffer until that takes place.
ARI GOLD, I am still waiting for your dreams to come true.
That is when NATO will leave Kosova, Serbia will take over Kosova.
The Independence will be reversed. I am holding you accountable to your own remarks.
Peggy. I saw that you mentioned how 1500 Serbian bikers put fear on Kosovar Albanians. Stop fooling yourself lol, 50,000 Serbian troops left Kosova back in 1999, yet your 1500 Bikers are going to scare us? Hahahaha
You won't have good relations with Kosova or Albania until you Serbs stop causing problems. We really don't care if you recognize Kosova or not, tha's harming Serbia more than anyone else. A real extremist Albanian would wish Serbia never does recognize Kosova.
Cheers From ALBANIA
pre 13 godina
he doesn't get it, and this loosing combination of little Slobo, and him will run Serbia even deeper into the ground. Serbia neeeds a relvolution. People going out on the streets telling these bimbos they had it, and want a free society, leave the baggage of the 90's behind, and look forward, not backwards. But, I have little hope that will happen, because too many people are still wrapped up in this old way of thinking. Wrong nationalism, the one which is coupled with politics and religion has never gotten any country forward, it will just stop progress. Foreign invenstments in Serbia will go back tremendously because nobody in Europe is happy about what is happening in Serbia, and therefore the ecconomy and the people will suffer even more. Russia won't be your savor, it will make only even more more unfree. Who in his right mind would want to live under a dictatorship like the one Putin has set up in his country. Serbia should work towards joining the West, but even there is a misconception. The Eu doesn't need Serbia, but Serbia needs the EU to survive. There will be no renegotiations of agreements as Nicolic wants, and Serbia has to deliver to go even a little bit forward now. Who do those politicians thnik they are? As I said, Europe doesn't need Serbia, but Serbia needs the free Europe.
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" The EU planned for Serbia to become good neighbours and allow the Albos to look for work as industry is opening up in Serbia, but that is all over."
(sj, 2 July 2012 12:39)
Sure! Everybody knows that Serbia is highly industrialized and has 100,000s of empty jobs which cannot be filled with Serbs because Serbian citizens enjoy an unemployment rate of 0-1%. LOL
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sj, you don't even know what u are talking about. Germany is not in a recession, and don't know where u get the rest of your strange info. Even if that would be the case, like many times before, and not like u said, now for the first time, it would pull itself out of it, because the basic economic and political structers are in takt and work fine. This bs about the EU will break up is nothing but wishful thinking on your part. The Euro will survive as well, even it remains to be seen if Greece will stay in the Euro zone. The serb economy is in real bad shape, there is even talk now that Serbia might go bancrupt soon. The average income is not much higher than that of Kosovo for instance; Euro 320 vs. 360. Not a huge difference if u ask me. Any why? One of the main reasons is that Serbia was never able to get itself out of the old thinking, wasts money on lost dreams like Kosovo, was never able to corruption under control (same as in Kosovo), was unable to establish rule of law, and a sound environment for foreign investments(same as Kosovo, again). Serbia needs to look ahead, turn itself into a liberal, modern society, and start dealing, coming to terems with hois past, before it can go on. The current power constallation in Belgrade will not be able to achieve these goals. It would be a huge surprise if they would succeed.
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What Kosovo talks? Serbia isn't able to form a government.
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"For that reason I insisted that he tells me what had been agreed," noted Nikolić.
You know very well what has been agreed.
The president added that while the Kosovo dialogue should be raised to a higher level - this level was not presidential, "as has been misinterpreted publicly" - but rather that of prime minister.
Good, I am dying to see Thaci and Dacic meet. Thaci will have a fun day laughing with Dacic and maybe even twisting Dacic's ear till he begs Snake to stop it.
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Nikolic and Dacic will recognise Kosovo.
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The future of these talks seems bleak. As another person stated earlier, belgrade isn't able to form a government while Pristina has disbanded its chief mediator (Edita Tahiri).
Let alone now Belgrade faces conditions from Brussels about normalization of relations with all its neighbors AND conditions from Pristina that all agreed technical matters to be fully implemented before resuming the talks.
Sincerely,
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sorry but my post should have said no one from the Serbian govt bothered to ask what did you discuss today not Kosovo.
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Actually I don't blame Nikolic for being impatient with the political parties who are too busy dividing up the cake than to focus on policy.
I know Kosovo Albanian visitors to the site will want to talk about Kosovo, but until a Serbian government is formed nobody knows what the hell is going on. I'm under the impression that the Kosovo policy will remain the same.
'Nikolic added that he supports the SNS's position that tycoons should not decide on the formation of a government' - Again this reference to Miskovic and his hatching of a government including G17 and SPS. Its a ridiculous stance as SNS has already given in to SPS demands to include G17. As I've mentioned before the most famous (Kosovo) Serb tycoon Bogoljub Karic is an open sponsor of SNS, so the point is even more stupid.
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I fully agree that the new cabinet is due to open a new chapter on Kosovo,
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Re: "For that reason I insisted that he tells me what had been agreed," noted Nikolić.
Why does he have to ask an EU official about something his government agreed with and signed for?
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(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 11:05)
Russia will enslave Serbia and Serbia needs a free Europe. Free of what mate? Do you really understand what you are talking about? Because this is just paraphrasing the usual Radio Free Europe crap.
MONEY rules everything and everyone in this world. There is no such thing as a free lunch as someone always has to pay even in a soup kitchen. You’re talking about a Europe that no longer exists; an EU that is barely hanging on by its finger nails because the money has run out. Joining the EU prior to 2008 meant money being given to that country by the truck load – The music has stopped playing and it’s now time to pay the orchestra. The EU is getting loans from China to stave off collapse; Germany has started to go into a recession (for the first time) and the consequence are horrendous for the EU.
When you tell me how Kosovo is going to survive with no industry, not enough water resources; no minerals of any kind and people living off electricity produced by generators then you can say no renegotiations otherwise its back to the future – there is no other way. Not one so far has managed to tell me how Kosovo can stand on its own two feet and I have been asking this question for 3 years now. The EU planned for Serbia to become good neighbours and allow the Albos to look for work as industry is opening up in Serbia, but that is all over.
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Willi you say Serbia needs to look ahead, and then the next sentence you say it has to come to terms with its past. Make up your mind!!
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Eagle
Interesting to read you analasys of the situation in Serbia. However, its not Serbia who remains isolated and unrecognized, its Kosovo.
Adem
You said Sandzak is full of bosnians. That's not true. Because we have most of them here in Sweden commiting crimes together with their Kosovo albanian friends. What do you think would happend once Kosovo gets white shengen? You will see the greatest voluntary mass exodus of people in the world. Not long ago a k-alb was caught hiding in the trunk of a car in Serbia. That's how desperate he is to leave paradise Kosovo. Look at Albania some years ago when the entire country wanted to leave to Italy. Hundreds filled a tiny little boat. How can you be proud of being rag tag nobodys? You suck at everything exept being a burden to everyone else.
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Negotiations are continuing, with new characters!
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"One of the main reasons is that Serbia was never able to get itself out of the old thinking, wasts money on lost dreams like Kosovo, was never able to corruption under control (same as in Kosovo), was unable to establish rule of law, and a sound environment for foreign investments(same as Kosovo, again). Serbia needs to look ahead, turn itself into a liberal, modern society, and start dealing, coming to terems with hois past, before it can go on. ...
The current power constallation in Belgrade will not be able to achieve these goals. It would be a huge surprise if they would succeed."
(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 14:52)
You can add 'same as in Kosovo' for the last two sentences as well - with the only difference that there donor money is wasted and there's no need for a sound environment for foreign investments because no major company would consider to invest in a place like Kosovo.
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"failed state body and people not talk about economy, environemnt, neighbours, not education."
Adem
First of all its "no education" and not "not educattion" then again you need education to be able to write.
Serbs a failed people! Ha ha ha! Coming from the ultimate failure of a human being. The alb! Right now, Djokovic and Troicki are playing against eachother in Wimbledon. When was the last time two albanians played against eachother in a dominant world sport? Never! The only time two albanians meet head to head internationally is when they share prison cell. Ha ha ha!
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To all those who urge Serbs to make peace with the neighbors by recognizing Kosovo - according to your logic every war could be stopped at any moment - all you have to to for it is to give in to your enemies/advirsories/compiteters whatever they want.
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When you tell me how Kosovo is going to survive with no industry, not enough water resources; no minerals of any kind and people living off electricity produced by generators
(sj, 2 July 2012 12:39)
I'm sure Kosovo residents highly appreciate your deep concern for their well being. Given that you are the CE of the B92 forums you may well offer your excellent advising services in economic and financial matters to Kosovo's communities to address the issues that you correctly pointed out above.
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
(sj, 3 July 2012 01:17)
Maybe your quesiton should be more concerned with what will Serbia DO if Kosovo were returned to it to make it economically sound. Considering that Serbian wages are among the lowest in Europe and the balkans, also with an unemployment rate of close to 30% or more how they will economically handle acquiring another 2 million people with an unemployment rate of greater than 50%.
When the govt is able to acquire a steel factory for the high price of $1 and still cannot afford to keep it operational. I think resources are running thin.
Because you do realize that the funds poored into Kosovo now will not be there should it once again be Serbia.
So you work on the answers to those problems and when you come back in 30 years maybe there will be a system in place to guarantee the success of Kosovo!
It is easy to sit back and throw out questions and be smug because someone does not have all the answers, it also diverts attention away from how much one actually knows.
So lets hear How is Serbia going to turn Kosovo into an economically successful province????
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Another Albanian academic with literacy problems. I’ve never said that there was full employment in Serbia, but here is a little puzzle for you. Do tell us all how is Kosovo going to survive on its own two feet. Serbia has more industry opening up every year but lets not discourage you from mentioning how many western industries have opened for business In Kosovo? Microsoft, Ford or perhaps VW or ??????????
My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
(sj, 3 July 2012 01:17)
Well Kosovo also has industry openeing every year too. Kosovo has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, not to mention unemployment is rapidly deceasing. Retail, Trade, Agriculture, Contruction, Banking and Natural Resources (Kosovo has high levels of lead, zinc, silver, nickel, cobalt, copper, iron and bauxite) are to be the backbone of Kosovo's growing economy. Not to mention that the low tax rates and huge young labour force have proved to be attractive for foreign investors.
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Sj, let say you are right. Let say Kosovo can't stand on its own, what in the world makes you think that Kosova would want to rejoin Serbia (in order to survive) and not Albania with whom they have much more in common than with you? So you think that Kosova-Albanians would rather prefer to go back to Serbia which just 13 years ago tortured them, massacred them, raped them, expelled them, and not reunite with Albania which would give Kosova access to the Adriatic Sea, an important factor for economic development.
And as long as about a million Kosova-Albanians can afford to go for vacation to Albania, Montenegro and Turkey each year, than you don't have to worry about their financial situation. Under Serbian rule the unemployment rate among Albanians in Kosova was about 95%, now its somewhere 50%, thats a decline of 45%.
What really repulses me in al of this is that Serbia destroyed almost everything in Kosovo during the war, and here we have Serbs mock Albanians for having difficulties with rebuilding the country from ruins.
It's like your neighbor burning your house to the ground and laugh at you because you are not able to build your house right away. It's sick!
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(sj, 4 July 2012 13:00)
You are totally clueless and nothing will ever change that. Your best bet is to join the 500 yr group, you know the ones that are going to wait for 500 years and retake Kosovo. That is about how long it will take for Serbia to become economically and politically sound in order to undertake such a task.
Your economic reasoning of being a cheap labor drawing card for investment in Serbia is either a short term boost or doomed to keep Serbia in a low class system forever. Who do you think these cheap laborers are going to be. Ask anyone in Serbia if they are happy with their salaries now and if that is exactly where they want to be in 25 years.
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Of course when the tough question come on line I’m clueless. You see I am in this business of knowing which countries are viable and which are not
(sj, 4 July 2012 14:19)
This is the sj I like... show these people their place sj; they are clueless and they don't understand that they are speaking with one of the most illustrious minds of global econonomy and finance as demonstrated by the fact that you've been hired by a Malaysian merchant bank and you are the CE of the 92 forums. What are the qualifications of you people who dare to question sj's economic and financial analysis ?!
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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Many People think that sometimes it is Sensible to see if everyone is happy with an Agreement, because only mutually acceptable agreements will benefit everyone.
This is because there is a strong perception by Many People that Boris Tadic is a Puppet and Traitor, and that he appointed another Puppet and Traitor, Borislav Stefanovic, to be the Negotiator, and there are contested clauses in that agreement by Borislav Stefanovic.
There could be matters that are Unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court needs to be asked that.
One of the Highest Principles of any Democracy is that a New Parliament is not bound by anything that the Old Parliament did, but they are restrained by the Constitution.
The way to test the current agreement is to scrap the entire controversial agreement that has been accused of being Fabricated in parts by the EU, and begin the Negotiations again.
This would be Sensible, given the changed circumstances that The International Steering Group for Kosovo decided on Monday to end the international supervision of Kosovo's independence.
These changed circumstances could change the attitude of the New Parliament to scrap, amend, or fine tune certain parts of the contested agreement, because of Deliberating on the matter.
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so we hope to cee the new government to continue negotiations with Pristina.
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He noted that two days after his election victory on May 20, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sent her congratulations, "first congratulating him on his victory, the democratic elections in Serbia", and then saying that "now we will finally solve the issue of Kosovo".
--
The question really is what has Nikolic agreed to? Why would Clinton say something like that? Why are they happy about Nikolic becoming president?
No government formation after such a long time. What I'd like to know is whether the SPS/URS are being setup to pave the way for an SNS/DS government. There is lots of mud being thrown at the SPS of late but it will need much more to give the SNS an excuse to abandon them.
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(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 14:52)
Sadly it comes to me to tell you that yes Germany is showing signs of starting into a recession – you see where I work we have to know, but Berlin will wait for another six months to tell everyone that there is a problem. Let me give you a little lesson in how it works- German banks lent all that cheap money to Greece, Spain etc so those countries can buy German products and now that these same countries are in trouble so are the German banks an since there are no cheap loans it is now evident that production is faltering.
I love the part of rule of law - stop watching US TV as you can’t have rule of law while you piss on your own ethics mate. Rendition, Gittmo bay, military tribunals, no adherence to international laws, condoning torture and so it goes on.
Now this is the best part. I ask for you to tell me how Kosovo is going to stand on its own two feet and I get “The average income is not much higher than that of Kosovo for instance;”
Little Willi this tells me all I need to know about you. If Serbia goes broke it does not have far to go, but when the EU goes bang it will be from a great height – enjoy your sinking living standards as Beijing props you up.
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These kind of people and comments, fighting to decide who is poorest one remembers me an italian quote of Giovenale.
"L'amara povertà non ha in sé nulla di più crudele del fatto che rende ridicoli gli uomini."
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(a New Day, 3 July 2012 11:25)
True there are still many uneconomic government run enterprises in Serbia. That needs time to dispose of those industries without causing more economic hardship. Unemployment in Serbia is about 25% to 30% but it’s the same in all the other surrounding countries such as Romania or Bulgaria or Hungary or Croatia. Governments hide real unemployment figures because it just looks bad such as the US which claims it only has 8.2% when even its own academia say its anywhere between 22% and 25%. Some academics claim it’s even higher.
Wages are low in Serbia but that also attracts industry as Fiat has only two days ago decided to close factories in France, Austria and Germany while it will pour more investment in Serbia. That is how the upcoming economic world powers started through low wages and therefore built their economies up. China 30 years ago was a peasant economy today it has 400 million middle class.
Kosovo is very poor and has nothing to offer foreign investment unless it is somehow linked to Serbia itself – much like what happened during the old Yugoslavia where industry was spread i.e one industry had parts made all over that country. That is what the EU expects from Serbia to do otherwise Kosovo is in a hole. You can work on it for the next 1000 years and the answer is still the same - you cannot survive on your own. No one said that even if Kosovo is reunited that Belgrade will create a Utopia and neither will Brussels.
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(Red&Black, 3 July 2012 18:54)
Two reasons why Kosovo will not join Albania. First is that the EU will not allow it to happen and secondly Tirahna does not have the financial resources to make that happen as it requires millions if not billions of Euros to properly integrate the two regions. It would ruin Albania financially.
Foreign industry would not relocate to Croatia because in Jadranka Kosor’s word “we are too small a country and its uneconomic for industry to come here”. Croatia has a population of 4.2 million; Kosovo has 1.2 million.
Yes some terrible things did happen during the war and its not just the Serbs but why are large numbers leaving Kosovo and looking for work in Serbia? Belgrade has sent hundreds back. Why would anyone go and work for the same people who did these terrible things to them? I would’nt.
Even if nothing was destroyed in Kosovo and even if all the “industry “ was left in tact, Kosovo cannot survive on its own. I am not mocking you when I say it’s a nice dream but that is all it is.
You work out the maths on unemployment. 1.2 million people and about 730,000 are working age; then take 330,000 (unemployed from that and you have 400 000 working, but only because of EU money. Take away EU money and you have 95% unemployed.
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What really repulses me in al of this is that Serbia destroyed almost everything in Kosovo during the war, and here we have Serbs mock Albanians for having difficulties with rebuilding the country from ruins.
It's like your neighbor burning your house to the ground and laugh at you because you are not able to build your house right away. It's sick!
(Red&Black, 3 July 2012 18:54)
This is unacceptable that you offend in this way the CE of the B92 forums sj who is known by all contributors here for his/her unparalled analysis in economic and financial issues and his/her excellent sources (like secret high level meetings that he/she knows about and the info from his/her legendary Malaysian friend).
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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sj, 3 July 2012 12:35)
You have the gift of gab for sure. Instead of trying to answer a question you cloud the issue to deflect from it.
Bottom line is NO Serbia does not have the ability to offer anyway of building the economic structure of Kosovo, plus the lack of desire.
Serbia is struggling, and it will take years to build itself as in your references to China. The one thing you omit is that in China and India, they have built themselves on cheap labor of which they have a massive pool to draw from. Serbia has drawn some in because of their cheap labor market surrounded by a larger market of higher priced labor. The problem with that Serbia can remain economically depressed in the private sector and continue to draw in industry or it can advance with competitive salaries(which is the goal of ordinary people) and remove the incentive of coming to Serbia.
If wages reach that of neighboring states industry will then seek more stable political environments.
So if you lay the cards on the table, the people of Kosovo have a far better chance at a future without Serbia than with.
thanks for the non answer.
So the answer to your question as to how is Kosovo going to become economically independent? The answer is to develop within with the help of those who support Kosovo and staying away from any connection with Serbia.
Come back when you have results and not dreams of a future.
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That is how the upcoming economic world powers started through low wages and therefore built their economies up. China 30 years ago was a peasant economy today it has 400 million middle class.
Wow that sounds impressive, but what if you introduce reality with the sugar coating.
Middle class in China would be families making between 10,000 and 60,000 a year so in reality many middle class in China would be below the poverty level in western countries.
With 400 million middle class (probably stretching it) that still leaves a lower class of almost 1 billion people. China can continue to pay people half the salary of Serbs for many, many years to come.
Serbia has a cheap market for labor, but that is very limited, that can be marketing strategy for 2-3 years at most then you are going to have to rely on other incentives like low tax structure for industry which places a higher burden on a low income individual. Also maintaining an affordable transit system for goods in and out of the country which guess what, means that Serbia has to increase its cooperation and dependence on its neighbors the EU.
Also due to the small number of people in Serbia inorder to continue to keep labor costs at an advantage will eventually lead to a high influx of migrant workers from other areas, as seen in the European economy. (Oh my,no more pure society, Albanians will be the least of your problems) Who knows by 2025 Serbs could reach a level of less than 50% of the population.
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Ian, the fastest growing 'industry'(!) in Kosovo is BS. There are regular reports that foreign investors won't touch it with a bargepole. How many failed privatization of the postal/telecoms/energy sector do you need to understand? Those who have taken the risk have been burnt.
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(a New Day, 4 July 2012 07:07)
All those neighboring countries and their fabulous salaries are myths. No one is investing in Croatia or Slovenia because they are too small and that is the very reason why the EU wants closer cooperation between them and Belgrade to create a large option for investors.
In the 21 centrury where communism is dead and socialism is alive in name only and capitalism has won, who is going to invest in Kosovo on the chance that they might make a profit? If that is so list the companies that have opened up for business there. Kosovo will sink without EU handouts
“. So the answer to your question as to how is Kosovo going to become economically independent? The answer is to develop within with the help of those who support Kosovo and staying away from any connection with Serbia. “
What do you develop from within mate? Kosovo does not have enough water or minerals; it imports mostly everything and has no capacity to produce. Its energy comes from generators not coal fired station or hydro power. Who do you think is going to invest? and don’t you think after 13 years something would have happened by now?
Kosovo was important 10 years ago but now it not and this entire BS about being a nation state is just that BS. The west in what the Japanese call saving face mode; they can’t admit what they did was wrong so they are going around in circles, but they want to connect Kosovo to Serbia’s economy to save money for Brussels.
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(J.Oker, 2 July 2012 15:10)
Another Albanian academic with literacy problems. I’ve never said that there was full employment in Serbia, but here is a little puzzle for you. Do tell us all how is Kosovo going to survive on its own two feet. Serbia has more industry opening up every year but lets not discourage you from mentioning how many western industries have opened for business In Kosovo? Microsoft, Ford or perhaps VW or ??????????
My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
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(a New Day, 4 July 2012 13:40)
Of course when the tough question come on line I’m clueless. You see I am in this business of knowing which countries are viable and which are not and Kosovo is f… and no amount praying, having a warm and fuzzy feeling will help it. The difference between Serbia and Kosovo or for the rest of that region is that it has the potential to move forward; the others do not.
Serbia’s economy was destroyed by the western bums who are paying the price in their own way now. The aim is to create a consumer economy much like where you live now so you have to attrack work so you have employment then even if that work leaves because of higher wages it matters little.
When you answer the question “how many of your allies have invested in Kosovo in the last 13 years” honestly then you will come to terms with what is going to happen to it.
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icj1, 4 July 2012 16:45)
Well how many of your allies have invested in Kosovo in the last 13 years?
It a Chinese owned bank mate not Malaysian. They are mostly Muslims who sit under a coconut tree waiting for a coconut to fall before they can have dinner. It’s the 3% of the population, Chinese, that run the economy.
Actually Albos and indigenous Malaysian are much the same – except everyone else to work for them.
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As usual, failed state body and people not talk about economy, environemnt, neighbours, not education.
Only Kosovo.
No hope for this country.
Kosovo soon without Serbs, Sandzak and Bosnia majority Bosniak in one generation.
No hope for dreaming Serbian fantasists not living in 21 Century, stuck in 1389.
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If Nikolic was allowed to recognize Kosova, so they can move on and get over it, he would definitely do it in a heart beat. Majority of Serbian citizens are ready and willing to let go of Kosova, so Serbia can proceed and maybe succeed. Currently, Serbia is suffering economically, and let's not throw any jokes around about how Russia will help. Nikolic knows where he stands when it comes to Kosova. He has to say I will never Recognize Kosova, he got elected just by repeating that very same sentence. The day will come when the actual real Serbians will take over the government, and do the right thing. Which is to build good relations with all of the neighboring countries, and move forward not the other way around. For now I guess Serbians have to suffer until that takes place.
ARI GOLD, I am still waiting for your dreams to come true.
That is when NATO will leave Kosova, Serbia will take over Kosova.
The Independence will be reversed. I am holding you accountable to your own remarks.
Peggy. I saw that you mentioned how 1500 Serbian bikers put fear on Kosovar Albanians. Stop fooling yourself lol, 50,000 Serbian troops left Kosova back in 1999, yet your 1500 Bikers are going to scare us? Hahahaha
You won't have good relations with Kosova or Albania until you Serbs stop causing problems. We really don't care if you recognize Kosova or not, tha's harming Serbia more than anyone else. A real extremist Albanian would wish Serbia never does recognize Kosova.
Cheers From ALBANIA
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he doesn't get it, and this loosing combination of little Slobo, and him will run Serbia even deeper into the ground. Serbia neeeds a relvolution. People going out on the streets telling these bimbos they had it, and want a free society, leave the baggage of the 90's behind, and look forward, not backwards. But, I have little hope that will happen, because too many people are still wrapped up in this old way of thinking. Wrong nationalism, the one which is coupled with politics and religion has never gotten any country forward, it will just stop progress. Foreign invenstments in Serbia will go back tremendously because nobody in Europe is happy about what is happening in Serbia, and therefore the ecconomy and the people will suffer even more. Russia won't be your savor, it will make only even more more unfree. Who in his right mind would want to live under a dictatorship like the one Putin has set up in his country. Serbia should work towards joining the West, but even there is a misconception. The Eu doesn't need Serbia, but Serbia needs the EU to survive. There will be no renegotiations of agreements as Nicolic wants, and Serbia has to deliver to go even a little bit forward now. Who do those politicians thnik they are? As I said, Europe doesn't need Serbia, but Serbia needs the free Europe.
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"failed state body and people not talk about economy, environemnt, neighbours, not education."
Adem
First of all its "no education" and not "not educattion" then again you need education to be able to write.
Serbs a failed people! Ha ha ha! Coming from the ultimate failure of a human being. The alb! Right now, Djokovic and Troicki are playing against eachother in Wimbledon. When was the last time two albanians played against eachother in a dominant world sport? Never! The only time two albanians meet head to head internationally is when they share prison cell. Ha ha ha!
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To all those who urge Serbs to make peace with the neighbors by recognizing Kosovo - according to your logic every war could be stopped at any moment - all you have to to for it is to give in to your enemies/advirsories/compiteters whatever they want.
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(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 11:05)
Russia will enslave Serbia and Serbia needs a free Europe. Free of what mate? Do you really understand what you are talking about? Because this is just paraphrasing the usual Radio Free Europe crap.
MONEY rules everything and everyone in this world. There is no such thing as a free lunch as someone always has to pay even in a soup kitchen. You’re talking about a Europe that no longer exists; an EU that is barely hanging on by its finger nails because the money has run out. Joining the EU prior to 2008 meant money being given to that country by the truck load – The music has stopped playing and it’s now time to pay the orchestra. The EU is getting loans from China to stave off collapse; Germany has started to go into a recession (for the first time) and the consequence are horrendous for the EU.
When you tell me how Kosovo is going to survive with no industry, not enough water resources; no minerals of any kind and people living off electricity produced by generators then you can say no renegotiations otherwise its back to the future – there is no other way. Not one so far has managed to tell me how Kosovo can stand on its own two feet and I have been asking this question for 3 years now. The EU planned for Serbia to become good neighbours and allow the Albos to look for work as industry is opening up in Serbia, but that is all over.
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Eagle
Interesting to read you analasys of the situation in Serbia. However, its not Serbia who remains isolated and unrecognized, its Kosovo.
Adem
You said Sandzak is full of bosnians. That's not true. Because we have most of them here in Sweden commiting crimes together with their Kosovo albanian friends. What do you think would happend once Kosovo gets white shengen? You will see the greatest voluntary mass exodus of people in the world. Not long ago a k-alb was caught hiding in the trunk of a car in Serbia. That's how desperate he is to leave paradise Kosovo. Look at Albania some years ago when the entire country wanted to leave to Italy. Hundreds filled a tiny little boat. How can you be proud of being rag tag nobodys? You suck at everything exept being a burden to everyone else.
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It amazes me that no one in Serbia knows what was agreed upon in the talks. I do not think I would admit that. The talks had been highlighted in the press nearly everyday for the last year. You have a govt appointed negotiator there, and no one from the Kosovo govt or anywhere ever asked "well what was discussed today?"
Maybe the UNSC should appoint someone to supervise Serbian independence because it is apparent you have no clue how to govern yourself.
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"One of the main reasons is that Serbia was never able to get itself out of the old thinking, wasts money on lost dreams like Kosovo, was never able to corruption under control (same as in Kosovo), was unable to establish rule of law, and a sound environment for foreign investments(same as Kosovo, again). Serbia needs to look ahead, turn itself into a liberal, modern society, and start dealing, coming to terems with hois past, before it can go on. ...
The current power constallation in Belgrade will not be able to achieve these goals. It would be a huge surprise if they would succeed."
(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 14:52)
You can add 'same as in Kosovo' for the last two sentences as well - with the only difference that there donor money is wasted and there's no need for a sound environment for foreign investments because no major company would consider to invest in a place like Kosovo.
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Willi you say Serbia needs to look ahead, and then the next sentence you say it has to come to terms with its past. Make up your mind!!
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sj, you don't even know what u are talking about. Germany is not in a recession, and don't know where u get the rest of your strange info. Even if that would be the case, like many times before, and not like u said, now for the first time, it would pull itself out of it, because the basic economic and political structers are in takt and work fine. This bs about the EU will break up is nothing but wishful thinking on your part. The Euro will survive as well, even it remains to be seen if Greece will stay in the Euro zone. The serb economy is in real bad shape, there is even talk now that Serbia might go bancrupt soon. The average income is not much higher than that of Kosovo for instance; Euro 320 vs. 360. Not a huge difference if u ask me. Any why? One of the main reasons is that Serbia was never able to get itself out of the old thinking, wasts money on lost dreams like Kosovo, was never able to corruption under control (same as in Kosovo), was unable to establish rule of law, and a sound environment for foreign investments(same as Kosovo, again). Serbia needs to look ahead, turn itself into a liberal, modern society, and start dealing, coming to terems with hois past, before it can go on. The current power constallation in Belgrade will not be able to achieve these goals. It would be a huge surprise if they would succeed.
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Many People think that sometimes it is Sensible to see if everyone is happy with an Agreement, because only mutually acceptable agreements will benefit everyone.
This is because there is a strong perception by Many People that Boris Tadic is a Puppet and Traitor, and that he appointed another Puppet and Traitor, Borislav Stefanovic, to be the Negotiator, and there are contested clauses in that agreement by Borislav Stefanovic.
There could be matters that are Unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court needs to be asked that.
One of the Highest Principles of any Democracy is that a New Parliament is not bound by anything that the Old Parliament did, but they are restrained by the Constitution.
The way to test the current agreement is to scrap the entire controversial agreement that has been accused of being Fabricated in parts by the EU, and begin the Negotiations again.
This would be Sensible, given the changed circumstances that The International Steering Group for Kosovo decided on Monday to end the international supervision of Kosovo's independence.
These changed circumstances could change the attitude of the New Parliament to scrap, amend, or fine tune certain parts of the contested agreement, because of Deliberating on the matter.
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" The EU planned for Serbia to become good neighbours and allow the Albos to look for work as industry is opening up in Serbia, but that is all over."
(sj, 2 July 2012 12:39)
Sure! Everybody knows that Serbia is highly industrialized and has 100,000s of empty jobs which cannot be filled with Serbs because Serbian citizens enjoy an unemployment rate of 0-1%. LOL
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sorry but my post should have said no one from the Serbian govt bothered to ask what did you discuss today not Kosovo.
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Actually I don't blame Nikolic for being impatient with the political parties who are too busy dividing up the cake than to focus on policy.
I know Kosovo Albanian visitors to the site will want to talk about Kosovo, but until a Serbian government is formed nobody knows what the hell is going on. I'm under the impression that the Kosovo policy will remain the same.
'Nikolic added that he supports the SNS's position that tycoons should not decide on the formation of a government' - Again this reference to Miskovic and his hatching of a government including G17 and SPS. Its a ridiculous stance as SNS has already given in to SPS demands to include G17. As I've mentioned before the most famous (Kosovo) Serb tycoon Bogoljub Karic is an open sponsor of SNS, so the point is even more stupid.
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Nikolic and Dacic will recognise Kosovo.
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I fully agree that the new cabinet is due to open a new chapter on Kosovo,
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He noted that two days after his election victory on May 20, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sent her congratulations, "first congratulating him on his victory, the democratic elections in Serbia", and then saying that "now we will finally solve the issue of Kosovo".
--
The question really is what has Nikolic agreed to? Why would Clinton say something like that? Why are they happy about Nikolic becoming president?
No government formation after such a long time. What I'd like to know is whether the SPS/URS are being setup to pave the way for an SNS/DS government. There is lots of mud being thrown at the SPS of late but it will need much more to give the SNS an excuse to abandon them.
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What Kosovo talks? Serbia isn't able to form a government.
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(Willi Pfaff, 2 July 2012 14:52)
Sadly it comes to me to tell you that yes Germany is showing signs of starting into a recession – you see where I work we have to know, but Berlin will wait for another six months to tell everyone that there is a problem. Let me give you a little lesson in how it works- German banks lent all that cheap money to Greece, Spain etc so those countries can buy German products and now that these same countries are in trouble so are the German banks an since there are no cheap loans it is now evident that production is faltering.
I love the part of rule of law - stop watching US TV as you can’t have rule of law while you piss on your own ethics mate. Rendition, Gittmo bay, military tribunals, no adherence to international laws, condoning torture and so it goes on.
Now this is the best part. I ask for you to tell me how Kosovo is going to stand on its own two feet and I get “The average income is not much higher than that of Kosovo for instance;”
Little Willi this tells me all I need to know about you. If Serbia goes broke it does not have far to go, but when the EU goes bang it will be from a great height – enjoy your sinking living standards as Beijing props you up.
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(J.Oker, 2 July 2012 15:10)
Another Albanian academic with literacy problems. I’ve never said that there was full employment in Serbia, but here is a little puzzle for you. Do tell us all how is Kosovo going to survive on its own two feet. Serbia has more industry opening up every year but lets not discourage you from mentioning how many western industries have opened for business In Kosovo? Microsoft, Ford or perhaps VW or ??????????
My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
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(a New Day, 3 July 2012 11:25)
True there are still many uneconomic government run enterprises in Serbia. That needs time to dispose of those industries without causing more economic hardship. Unemployment in Serbia is about 25% to 30% but it’s the same in all the other surrounding countries such as Romania or Bulgaria or Hungary or Croatia. Governments hide real unemployment figures because it just looks bad such as the US which claims it only has 8.2% when even its own academia say its anywhere between 22% and 25%. Some academics claim it’s even higher.
Wages are low in Serbia but that also attracts industry as Fiat has only two days ago decided to close factories in France, Austria and Germany while it will pour more investment in Serbia. That is how the upcoming economic world powers started through low wages and therefore built their economies up. China 30 years ago was a peasant economy today it has 400 million middle class.
Kosovo is very poor and has nothing to offer foreign investment unless it is somehow linked to Serbia itself – much like what happened during the old Yugoslavia where industry was spread i.e one industry had parts made all over that country. That is what the EU expects from Serbia to do otherwise Kosovo is in a hole. You can work on it for the next 1000 years and the answer is still the same - you cannot survive on your own. No one said that even if Kosovo is reunited that Belgrade will create a Utopia and neither will Brussels.
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(Red&Black, 3 July 2012 18:54)
Two reasons why Kosovo will not join Albania. First is that the EU will not allow it to happen and secondly Tirahna does not have the financial resources to make that happen as it requires millions if not billions of Euros to properly integrate the two regions. It would ruin Albania financially.
Foreign industry would not relocate to Croatia because in Jadranka Kosor’s word “we are too small a country and its uneconomic for industry to come here”. Croatia has a population of 4.2 million; Kosovo has 1.2 million.
Yes some terrible things did happen during the war and its not just the Serbs but why are large numbers leaving Kosovo and looking for work in Serbia? Belgrade has sent hundreds back. Why would anyone go and work for the same people who did these terrible things to them? I would’nt.
Even if nothing was destroyed in Kosovo and even if all the “industry “ was left in tact, Kosovo cannot survive on its own. I am not mocking you when I say it’s a nice dream but that is all it is.
You work out the maths on unemployment. 1.2 million people and about 730,000 are working age; then take 330,000 (unemployed from that and you have 400 000 working, but only because of EU money. Take away EU money and you have 95% unemployed.
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Ian, the fastest growing 'industry'(!) in Kosovo is BS. There are regular reports that foreign investors won't touch it with a bargepole. How many failed privatization of the postal/telecoms/energy sector do you need to understand? Those who have taken the risk have been burnt.
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The future of these talks seems bleak. As another person stated earlier, belgrade isn't able to form a government while Pristina has disbanded its chief mediator (Edita Tahiri).
Let alone now Belgrade faces conditions from Brussels about normalization of relations with all its neighbors AND conditions from Pristina that all agreed technical matters to be fully implemented before resuming the talks.
Sincerely,
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"For that reason I insisted that he tells me what had been agreed," noted Nikolić.
You know very well what has been agreed.
The president added that while the Kosovo dialogue should be raised to a higher level - this level was not presidential, "as has been misinterpreted publicly" - but rather that of prime minister.
Good, I am dying to see Thaci and Dacic meet. Thaci will have a fun day laughing with Dacic and maybe even twisting Dacic's ear till he begs Snake to stop it.
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Another Albanian academic with literacy problems. I’ve never said that there was full employment in Serbia, but here is a little puzzle for you. Do tell us all how is Kosovo going to survive on its own two feet. Serbia has more industry opening up every year but lets not discourage you from mentioning how many western industries have opened for business In Kosovo? Microsoft, Ford or perhaps VW or ??????????
My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
(sj, 3 July 2012 01:17)
Well Kosovo also has industry openeing every year too. Kosovo has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, not to mention unemployment is rapidly deceasing. Retail, Trade, Agriculture, Contruction, Banking and Natural Resources (Kosovo has high levels of lead, zinc, silver, nickel, cobalt, copper, iron and bauxite) are to be the backbone of Kosovo's growing economy. Not to mention that the low tax rates and huge young labour force have proved to be attractive for foreign investors.
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Sj, let say you are right. Let say Kosovo can't stand on its own, what in the world makes you think that Kosova would want to rejoin Serbia (in order to survive) and not Albania with whom they have much more in common than with you? So you think that Kosova-Albanians would rather prefer to go back to Serbia which just 13 years ago tortured them, massacred them, raped them, expelled them, and not reunite with Albania which would give Kosova access to the Adriatic Sea, an important factor for economic development.
And as long as about a million Kosova-Albanians can afford to go for vacation to Albania, Montenegro and Turkey each year, than you don't have to worry about their financial situation. Under Serbian rule the unemployment rate among Albanians in Kosova was about 95%, now its somewhere 50%, thats a decline of 45%.
What really repulses me in al of this is that Serbia destroyed almost everything in Kosovo during the war, and here we have Serbs mock Albanians for having difficulties with rebuilding the country from ruins.
It's like your neighbor burning your house to the ground and laugh at you because you are not able to build your house right away. It's sick!
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(a New Day, 4 July 2012 07:07)
All those neighboring countries and their fabulous salaries are myths. No one is investing in Croatia or Slovenia because they are too small and that is the very reason why the EU wants closer cooperation between them and Belgrade to create a large option for investors.
In the 21 centrury where communism is dead and socialism is alive in name only and capitalism has won, who is going to invest in Kosovo on the chance that they might make a profit? If that is so list the companies that have opened up for business there. Kosovo will sink without EU handouts
“. So the answer to your question as to how is Kosovo going to become economically independent? The answer is to develop within with the help of those who support Kosovo and staying away from any connection with Serbia. “
What do you develop from within mate? Kosovo does not have enough water or minerals; it imports mostly everything and has no capacity to produce. Its energy comes from generators not coal fired station or hydro power. Who do you think is going to invest? and don’t you think after 13 years something would have happened by now?
Kosovo was important 10 years ago but now it not and this entire BS about being a nation state is just that BS. The west in what the Japanese call saving face mode; they can’t admit what they did was wrong so they are going around in circles, but they want to connect Kosovo to Serbia’s economy to save money for Brussels.
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(a New Day, 4 July 2012 13:40)
Of course when the tough question come on line I’m clueless. You see I am in this business of knowing which countries are viable and which are not and Kosovo is f… and no amount praying, having a warm and fuzzy feeling will help it. The difference between Serbia and Kosovo or for the rest of that region is that it has the potential to move forward; the others do not.
Serbia’s economy was destroyed by the western bums who are paying the price in their own way now. The aim is to create a consumer economy much like where you live now so you have to attrack work so you have employment then even if that work leaves because of higher wages it matters little.
When you answer the question “how many of your allies have invested in Kosovo in the last 13 years” honestly then you will come to terms with what is going to happen to it.
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Negotiations are continuing, with new characters!
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so we hope to cee the new government to continue negotiations with Pristina.
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Re: "For that reason I insisted that he tells me what had been agreed," noted Nikolić.
Why does he have to ask an EU official about something his government agreed with and signed for?
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When you tell me how Kosovo is going to survive with no industry, not enough water resources; no minerals of any kind and people living off electricity produced by generators
(sj, 2 July 2012 12:39)
I'm sure Kosovo residents highly appreciate your deep concern for their well being. Given that you are the CE of the B92 forums you may well offer your excellent advising services in economic and financial matters to Kosovo's communities to address the issues that you correctly pointed out above.
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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My question has to be the riddle of the 21 century because so far in 3 years no one from the opposing side has been able to answer it.
Yep your right LOL.
(sj, 3 July 2012 01:17)
Maybe your quesiton should be more concerned with what will Serbia DO if Kosovo were returned to it to make it economically sound. Considering that Serbian wages are among the lowest in Europe and the balkans, also with an unemployment rate of close to 30% or more how they will economically handle acquiring another 2 million people with an unemployment rate of greater than 50%.
When the govt is able to acquire a steel factory for the high price of $1 and still cannot afford to keep it operational. I think resources are running thin.
Because you do realize that the funds poored into Kosovo now will not be there should it once again be Serbia.
So you work on the answers to those problems and when you come back in 30 years maybe there will be a system in place to guarantee the success of Kosovo!
It is easy to sit back and throw out questions and be smug because someone does not have all the answers, it also diverts attention away from how much one actually knows.
So lets hear How is Serbia going to turn Kosovo into an economically successful province????
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(sj, 4 July 2012 13:00)
You are totally clueless and nothing will ever change that. Your best bet is to join the 500 yr group, you know the ones that are going to wait for 500 years and retake Kosovo. That is about how long it will take for Serbia to become economically and politically sound in order to undertake such a task.
Your economic reasoning of being a cheap labor drawing card for investment in Serbia is either a short term boost or doomed to keep Serbia in a low class system forever. Who do you think these cheap laborers are going to be. Ask anyone in Serbia if they are happy with their salaries now and if that is exactly where they want to be in 25 years.
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Of course when the tough question come on line I’m clueless. You see I am in this business of knowing which countries are viable and which are not
(sj, 4 July 2012 14:19)
This is the sj I like... show these people their place sj; they are clueless and they don't understand that they are speaking with one of the most illustrious minds of global econonomy and finance as demonstrated by the fact that you've been hired by a Malaysian merchant bank and you are the CE of the 92 forums. What are the qualifications of you people who dare to question sj's economic and financial analysis ?!
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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icj1, 4 July 2012 16:45)
Well how many of your allies have invested in Kosovo in the last 13 years?
It a Chinese owned bank mate not Malaysian. They are mostly Muslims who sit under a coconut tree waiting for a coconut to fall before they can have dinner. It’s the 3% of the population, Chinese, that run the economy.
Actually Albos and indigenous Malaysian are much the same – except everyone else to work for them.
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These kind of people and comments, fighting to decide who is poorest one remembers me an italian quote of Giovenale.
"L'amara povertà non ha in sé nulla di più crudele del fatto che rende ridicoli gli uomini."
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What really repulses me in al of this is that Serbia destroyed almost everything in Kosovo during the war, and here we have Serbs mock Albanians for having difficulties with rebuilding the country from ruins.
It's like your neighbor burning your house to the ground and laugh at you because you are not able to build your house right away. It's sick!
(Red&Black, 3 July 2012 18:54)
This is unacceptable that you offend in this way the CE of the B92 forums sj who is known by all contributors here for his/her unparalled analysis in economic and financial issues and his/her excellent sources (like secret high level meetings that he/she knows about and the info from his/her legendary Malaysian friend).
P.S. CE = Chief Economist
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sj, 3 July 2012 12:35)
You have the gift of gab for sure. Instead of trying to answer a question you cloud the issue to deflect from it.
Bottom line is NO Serbia does not have the ability to offer anyway of building the economic structure of Kosovo, plus the lack of desire.
Serbia is struggling, and it will take years to build itself as in your references to China. The one thing you omit is that in China and India, they have built themselves on cheap labor of which they have a massive pool to draw from. Serbia has drawn some in because of their cheap labor market surrounded by a larger market of higher priced labor. The problem with that Serbia can remain economically depressed in the private sector and continue to draw in industry or it can advance with competitive salaries(which is the goal of ordinary people) and remove the incentive of coming to Serbia.
If wages reach that of neighboring states industry will then seek more stable political environments.
So if you lay the cards on the table, the people of Kosovo have a far better chance at a future without Serbia than with.
thanks for the non answer.
So the answer to your question as to how is Kosovo going to become economically independent? The answer is to develop within with the help of those who support Kosovo and staying away from any connection with Serbia.
Come back when you have results and not dreams of a future.
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That is how the upcoming economic world powers started through low wages and therefore built their economies up. China 30 years ago was a peasant economy today it has 400 million middle class.
Wow that sounds impressive, but what if you introduce reality with the sugar coating.
Middle class in China would be families making between 10,000 and 60,000 a year so in reality many middle class in China would be below the poverty level in western countries.
With 400 million middle class (probably stretching it) that still leaves a lower class of almost 1 billion people. China can continue to pay people half the salary of Serbs for many, many years to come.
Serbia has a cheap market for labor, but that is very limited, that can be marketing strategy for 2-3 years at most then you are going to have to rely on other incentives like low tax structure for industry which places a higher burden on a low income individual. Also maintaining an affordable transit system for goods in and out of the country which guess what, means that Serbia has to increase its cooperation and dependence on its neighbors the EU.
Also due to the small number of people in Serbia inorder to continue to keep labor costs at an advantage will eventually lead to a high influx of migrant workers from other areas, as seen in the European economy. (Oh my,no more pure society, Albanians will be the least of your problems) Who knows by 2025 Serbs could reach a level of less than 50% of the population.
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