Put it this way exKfor, I am in possession of a Kosovar passport, which Serbia deems illegal and their police can do nothing to me. Nor do I have to respect a SINGLE law of the Serbian Republic :-)
exKfor thanks for helping us in our road to independence
(Nikolle, 27 June 2012 15:49)
I have to admit I failed as do not see KiM being independent, it is legally part of Serbia despite some pro-jihadist bigger countries and their boot-lickers smaller ones (including my own government) kind of treating you formally as "independent" - in fact KiM is totally dependent on foreign aid - be it jihadists` criminal money or EU funds...lol. Besides, 98% KiM colonist Albanians are not free and independent - Koran dictates what to do or how you should bend to Arabs/Turks? Insha`Allah and pacim!
exKfor thanks for helping us in our road to independence
(Nikolle, 27 June 2012 15:49)
I have to admit I failed as do not see KiM being independent, it is legally part of Serbia despite some pro-jihadist bigger countries and their boot-lickers smaller ones (including my own government) kind of treating you formally as "independent" - in fact KiM is totally dependent on foreign aid - be it jihadists` criminal money or EU funds...lol. Besides, 98% KiM colonist Albanians are not free and independent - Koran dictates what to do or how you should bend to Arabs/Turks? Insha`Allah and pacim!
Muslim Albanians, who do not like to live in Serbia, should be sent back to Albania or Turkey (their patrons) - like it happened in Algeria with French colonists - and then the peace will come to KiM - everybody`s happy!
(exKFOR to Bilbao, 25 June 2012 20:56)
============================
to Bilbao, 26 June 2012 19:21)
To Speak of Kosovo as an Islamic state is to admit you have never been to Kosovo.
90+%of the people practice their religion the way you practice yours, mainly name only. One of the ironic things when I was there was almost everyone worked on Friday, but hardly anyone worked on Sunday. This is not true in your Islamic countries.
..but carrying all that hate for huge portion of the world is not good.
(Bilbao, 26 June 2012 15:57)
Dude, I am not carrying the anger of the World in my heart - believe - I am a realist and very pragmatic person. I am baptized but do not go to church or practicing religion in a way Christians do - too hierarchical system what supresses basically every dissention, and Islam is the worst amongst monotheistic ideologies with its utter intolerance towards so called dhimmies. Yes, religion should make peole tolerant but Muslims (like Jehovah witnesses or orthodox Jews and etc) are not - try to critically examine Muhhamad and his deeds or "offend" their book(what a nonsense!!!) - your head would be chopped off...lol. Look what religious minorites have to go through in any country with Muslim majority! It is worst than communism was in Russia where people at least could read French philosophers and follow logic/common sense what is completely out of question with Islam. Kosovo is Serb territory and I support their violence over any Islamic one at any time because European democracy ( as imperfect as it is) stems from Judeo-Christianity and not from Islam - `cause they have none, in addition their senseless overbreeding what itself will cause wars in the future anyway...I do not think Bilbao, that you would tolerate somebody coming and taking over your property because at some point they outnumber you? Homo homini lupus est, we all have masks what we use accordingly...
You look a bit disturbed man , Sudan is been like this since 1500s but ok blame everything in religion. I am sure French Christian invadors to Africa did no damage in Algeria etc. Man you need to relax religion is a personal mater no need to push it on us.
And as a Christian you should learn tolerance not preach war but I guess this is why you joind the Military.
referendum is purest form and if you do not think so again fine but relax this is a forum to exchange ides in the end nothing you are I say here will change the world.
Can you let me know your nationality ?? Just to know maybe understand historically why you are so angry if you are Say from Armenia I do understand etc.
Best of luck to you but carrying all that hate for huge portion of the world is not good.
Kosovo has always been the heart of Serbia and we will not let anyone be a mediator of the talks with Kosovo.
(harvey, 26 June 2012 09:56
One has to wonder if you have been sleeping for the last few years and suddenly woke up and decided to write something. Talks have been going on for over a year now with a EU mediator and everyone in your govt seems to plan on that continuing with the only difference being changing the people in each of the chairs.
Well, if Serbia was like Afghanistan it could hold out forever. As long as you don't have heavily populated areas and infrastructure worth destroying you can hold out forever. You can't damage bare earth now can you?
You can bomb caves and rocks all you want. Nobody would care, but bombing a developed country like Serbia is another story. Too populated, too much infrastructure. Any country in Europe would've "caved" a lot sooner.
(Peggy, 25 June 2012 23:04)
My point which seems to have totally went over your head: he said pointed out that South Sudan and Sudan agreed to independence as if theirs was a model approach that Kosovo should have taken. And I pointed out it was not that simple in before their 5 years of talks they had a war for 22 years which took more than 2million lives and displaced millions of others. The question is could SERBIA, not Afghanistan, Haiti, or timbuktu, handle a 20+ year war to come to the same point? Imagine where Serbia would be if they were in year 13 of a 20 year war. I don't think license plates would seem like a big issue, and Jeremic could not find an audience on a street corner.
River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
(Ecoman, 25 June 2012 18:34)
That's strange... the average Albanian in Albania lives close to the level of the average Chinese. But according to sj, China is the paradise of the world. And since sj is the CE of the B92 forums, I don't think that anybody has the necessary IQ to question his/her findings :)
Not really. The road to independence is not that long at all, if you are a real country. South Sudan declared independence 4 years after you guys and already got full recognition.
(Ari Gold, 25 June 2012 15:51)
I thought there were almost 200 countries in the world, but you seem to think that there are less than 120 !!!
But you are correct; the road the independence is not long at all; it took Kosovo just 3 months in 1999
The Albanians have their truth and the Serbians have their's and neither of them will ever find common ground.A divorce is required and the assets need to be split amicably.You can't give the whole house to one party as both have have been guilty of domestic abuse regardless of what they might want you to believe.There aren't any saints in this part of the world, well at least not living.
"River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
Ecoman"
Ecoman, I challenge you to a duel. What I mean by that is let's name a list of categories and then compare Serbia to Albania and how they've progressed in the last 10 years.
Based on your posts Serbia should be light years away from Albania.
Sadly, these days, Serbs like you Ari who know the Kosovo issue is a done deal have no other artillery but cheap shots and propaganda. If you think it help then keep at it.
(cry me a river, 25 June 2012 20:23)
The only for sure “done deal” is death. And I most certainly agree with you that “Kosova project” is done deal… if it was anything different you wouldn’t be here day in and day out trying to convince us otherwise.
Cry me a another river…
Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
(a New Day, 25 June 2012 17:32)
=============================
Well, if Serbia was like Afghanistan it could hold out forever. As long as you don't have heavily populated areas and infrastructure worth destroying you can hold out forever. You can't damage bare earth now can you?
You can bomb caves and rocks all you want. Nobody would care, but bombing a developed country like Serbia is another story. Too populated, too much infrastructure. Any country in Europe would've "caved" a lot sooner.
Serbs lived alongside Albanians for centuries and failed to learn anything about them. Maybe, this is one of the reasons they lost Kosovo.
(cry me a river, 25 June 2012
====================================
OK, so what is it we were supposed to learn about you and didn't that made you so hostile, hateful and bloodthirsty?
You also have lived alongside us for a very long time and failed to become friendly to us and not want us out of Europe. By your own admission, on this site, you have been wanting to kick Serbs out of Europe for hundreds of years, so what should've we learned in order for you to treat us like human beings?
Perhaps you are upset that we managed to free ourselves from Turks and retain our religion which you so obviously failed and are now extremely resentful. Maybe we should've capitulated like you and then we would be decent human beings in your eyes.
Let us not forget the oil in South Sudan. South Sudan wouldn't exist either if not for the oil. It might be better to point out that the Albanians are Muslim and "new" countries made up of Muslims seem to always start off on the wrong foot.
Ari,
I hoped that you would've learned a thing or two by now. Obviously, you haven't. Let me decipher a couple of things for you.
Albanians don't think that the West is 'in love' with us. This idea is ridicoulus. Albanians are grateful to the West. There's a big difference.
Serbs lived alongside Albanians for centuries and failed to learn anything about them. Maybe, this is one of the reasons they lost Kosovo.
Sadly, these days, Serbs like you Ari who know the Kosovo issue is a done deal have no other artillery but cheap shots and propaganda. If you think it help then keep at it.
Referendum was held only in the South Sudan and only people there where eligible to VOTE would you like a referendum in Kosovo.
Same as in Quebec or in the future in Scotland.
Firstly -Muslim Arabs in Sudan are intruders as Muslims are in the Balkans. It would be legtimate for black Sudanese to kick invaders out and have all Sudan, don`t you think so, do you? In Canada both Anglo-Saxons and French are intruders - Indians have right to say whether white colonists are to stay or ship them back to where their ancestors came from( it happened by the way in Algeria with blackfeet - you may call it re-establishing of a historical justice). Scots - had their own kingdom what was conquered by British as Turks and Albanian Muslims seized KiM - those events are well documented what one cannot say about mysterious Illyrian-Albanian linkage and all those fairy-tales jihadists boasts here as "historical proof". Fair game - Muslim Albanians, who do not like to live in Serbia, should be sent back to Albania or Turkey (their patrons) - like it happened in Algeria with French colonists - and then the peace will come to KiM - everybody`s happy!
I'm not sure pictures will be 100% effective. We've already seen how the west and their brown nosers freely interpret the agreements they've already signed.
I suppose the main point about the pictures is so that Ashton doesn't commit some huge diplomatic gaffe that mightily upsets one side, the other or both sides.
She would be completely useless though on the Balkans.
Just wait until they figure this out and others throw their hats in to the ring... Lajack, Ashdown, Pack, the slovenian propagandist guy etc. i.e. all the scum of the earth who will only look after albanian interests - 'unofficially' of course.
River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
Ari gold,
"But you see Sudan agreed to South Sudan's independence so it was lawful, got full recognition and now is already a member of the UN."
A very simple process indeed following 22 years of war and 5 years of talks.
"Roughly two million people have died as a result of war, famine and disease caused by the conflict. Four million people in southern Sudan have been displaced at least once (and often repeatedly) during the war"
Definite a benchmark to set as a goal for independence. Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
Definite a benchmark to set as a goal for independence. Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
(a New Day, 25 June 2012 17:32)
The process of independence was started after the referendum and you saw how a real country gets recognition. After less than a week of independence it got the recognition's it needed to join the UN.
And "Kosovo*" how long is it taking with how much Western money? And you still cant secure recognition's of anyone outside of Western client states and irrelevant pacific island "nations".
LOL and please act like you were the ones bombing us for 78 days. We were bombed by the strongest military force in the world and still lasted longer than the KLA did in 97' when the Serbian police force wiped the floor with terrorist scum.
Even Adem Jashari used his own family as human shields after committing murders but sadly for him not even they were enough to keep him from his inevitable demise.
"Let's see. Economically depressed, socially inept, morally corrupt and educationally at the bottom of the world where half the population is iliterate. The list goes on"
Cry me a river
That is a perfect description of both Kosovo and Albania. Serbia is far from perfect but compared to any albanian inhabited territories Serbia is heaven on earth. Ask yourself why both Albania and Kosovo are isolated?
“We Albanians are tired of feeling cut off from the world”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/europe/24iht-albania.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
Your comment just shows that you albanians are not in touch of reality what so ever.
Newborn or stillborn, that's the big question. A newborn usually makes progress and is learning things very quickly - a thing that cannot be observed when looking at the 'young Europeans'
(Comm. Parrisson, 25 June 2012 16:07)
--
Oh, and the other option of Newporn. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvMo6zYzUQY
Newborn or stillborn, that's the big question. A newborn usually makes progress and is learning things very quickly - a thing that cannot be observed when looking at the 'young Europeans'
Ecoman, you're right!
A newborn has to start somewhere. It's a long road to self-actualization, if you know what that is.
Pity on those countries which have been around for a while, as independent countries, that are stick stuck at infancy.
Let's see. Economically depressed, socially inept, morally corrupt and educationally at the bottom of the world where half the population is iliterate. The list goes on.
Ecoman, since you're such a knowledgable person, could you guess what country I'm talking about?
I love the sarcasm. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Not really. The road to independence is not that long at all, if you are a real country. South Sudan declared independence 4 years after you guys and already got full recognition.
See that's what happens when you know, your a real recognized entity. Not a Western pawn who will be dumped as soon as you are no longer needed. Don't worry the rest of Serbia is pretty much the same pawn sadly.
But you see Sudan agreed to South Sudan's independence so it was lawful, got full recognition and now is already a member of the UN.
You can say that what Serbia says or thinks doesn't matter but in reality it does. I don't blame you, you are the same people who swear the West loves you guys and will always be there to fight for your sick wet dreams of stealing Serbian territory.
But as we all know, if Serbia's opinion does not matter...there would not be such an effort to have these 'negotiations' and send high level diplomats from the West to Belgrade to convince us otherwise.
Now it may very well be that OUR government in fact legitimizes your land grab. And that's the best you could hope for.
Our disunity and ability to elect fifth columnists is the best hope you have to legalize your theft.
Good idea, EU dude, place pictures next to the agreements Serbia makes with Pristina and the EU, so as not to have differences of opinions in interpretations later on. After all, the Newborn is, well, a Newborn, and just like all starting out, it's picture books and crayons. Gee, I love this sarcasm, thanks for steering me that way, Nikolle.
Ashton could pick up some useful tips from the cheap greek & turkish eateries on the Marche aux Fromages in Brussels. Each menu option has a picture next to it with a price. She could have the same but instead with pictures of all officials, the prices next to the albanian politicians would be far in excess of the EUR7 a basic meal...
Not really. The road to independence is not that long at all, if you are a real country. South Sudan declared independence 4 years after you guys and already got full recognition.
See that's what happens when you know, your a real recognized entity. Not a Western pawn who will be dumped as soon as you are no longer needed. Don't worry the rest of Serbia is pretty much the same pawn sadly.
But you see Sudan agreed to South Sudan's independence so it was lawful, got full recognition and now is already a member of the UN.
You can say that what Serbia says or thinks doesn't matter but in reality it does. I don't blame you, you are the same people who swear the West loves you guys and will always be there to fight for your sick wet dreams of stealing Serbian territory.
But as we all know, if Serbia's opinion does not matter...there would not be such an effort to have these 'negotiations' and send high level diplomats from the West to Belgrade to convince us otherwise.
Now it may very well be that OUR government in fact legitimizes your land grab. And that's the best you could hope for.
Our disunity and ability to elect fifth columnists is the best hope you have to legalize your theft.
Good idea, EU dude, place pictures next to the agreements Serbia makes with Pristina and the EU, so as not to have differences of opinions in interpretations later on. After all, the Newborn is, well, a Newborn, and just like all starting out, it's picture books and crayons. Gee, I love this sarcasm, thanks for steering me that way, Nikolle.
Ecoman, you're right!
A newborn has to start somewhere. It's a long road to self-actualization, if you know what that is.
Pity on those countries which have been around for a while, as independent countries, that are stick stuck at infancy.
Let's see. Economically depressed, socially inept, morally corrupt and educationally at the bottom of the world where half the population is iliterate. The list goes on.
Ecoman, since you're such a knowledgable person, could you guess what country I'm talking about?
I love the sarcasm. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
Ashton could pick up some useful tips from the cheap greek & turkish eateries on the Marche aux Fromages in Brussels. Each menu option has a picture next to it with a price. She could have the same but instead with pictures of all officials, the prices next to the albanian politicians would be far in excess of the EUR7 a basic meal...
Definite a benchmark to set as a goal for independence. Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
(a New Day, 25 June 2012 17:32)
The process of independence was started after the referendum and you saw how a real country gets recognition. After less than a week of independence it got the recognition's it needed to join the UN.
And "Kosovo*" how long is it taking with how much Western money? And you still cant secure recognition's of anyone outside of Western client states and irrelevant pacific island "nations".
LOL and please act like you were the ones bombing us for 78 days. We were bombed by the strongest military force in the world and still lasted longer than the KLA did in 97' when the Serbian police force wiped the floor with terrorist scum.
Even Adem Jashari used his own family as human shields after committing murders but sadly for him not even they were enough to keep him from his inevitable demise.
Newborn or stillborn, that's the big question. A newborn usually makes progress and is learning things very quickly - a thing that cannot be observed when looking at the 'young Europeans'
"Let's see. Economically depressed, socially inept, morally corrupt and educationally at the bottom of the world where half the population is iliterate. The list goes on"
Cry me a river
That is a perfect description of both Kosovo and Albania. Serbia is far from perfect but compared to any albanian inhabited territories Serbia is heaven on earth. Ask yourself why both Albania and Kosovo are isolated?
“We Albanians are tired of feeling cut off from the world”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/europe/24iht-albania.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
Your comment just shows that you albanians are not in touch of reality what so ever.
Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
(a New Day, 25 June 2012 17:32)
=============================
Well, if Serbia was like Afghanistan it could hold out forever. As long as you don't have heavily populated areas and infrastructure worth destroying you can hold out forever. You can't damage bare earth now can you?
You can bomb caves and rocks all you want. Nobody would care, but bombing a developed country like Serbia is another story. Too populated, too much infrastructure. Any country in Europe would've "caved" a lot sooner.
Serbs lived alongside Albanians for centuries and failed to learn anything about them. Maybe, this is one of the reasons they lost Kosovo.
(cry me a river, 25 June 2012
====================================
OK, so what is it we were supposed to learn about you and didn't that made you so hostile, hateful and bloodthirsty?
You also have lived alongside us for a very long time and failed to become friendly to us and not want us out of Europe. By your own admission, on this site, you have been wanting to kick Serbs out of Europe for hundreds of years, so what should've we learned in order for you to treat us like human beings?
Perhaps you are upset that we managed to free ourselves from Turks and retain our religion which you so obviously failed and are now extremely resentful. Maybe we should've capitulated like you and then we would be decent human beings in your eyes.
Referendum was held only in the South Sudan and only people there where eligible to VOTE would you like a referendum in Kosovo.
Same as in Quebec or in the future in Scotland.
Firstly -Muslim Arabs in Sudan are intruders as Muslims are in the Balkans. It would be legtimate for black Sudanese to kick invaders out and have all Sudan, don`t you think so, do you? In Canada both Anglo-Saxons and French are intruders - Indians have right to say whether white colonists are to stay or ship them back to where their ancestors came from( it happened by the way in Algeria with blackfeet - you may call it re-establishing of a historical justice). Scots - had their own kingdom what was conquered by British as Turks and Albanian Muslims seized KiM - those events are well documented what one cannot say about mysterious Illyrian-Albanian linkage and all those fairy-tales jihadists boasts here as "historical proof". Fair game - Muslim Albanians, who do not like to live in Serbia, should be sent back to Albania or Turkey (their patrons) - like it happened in Algeria with French colonists - and then the peace will come to KiM - everybody`s happy!
Sadly, these days, Serbs like you Ari who know the Kosovo issue is a done deal have no other artillery but cheap shots and propaganda. If you think it help then keep at it.
(cry me a river, 25 June 2012 20:23)
The only for sure “done deal” is death. And I most certainly agree with you that “Kosova project” is done deal… if it was anything different you wouldn’t be here day in and day out trying to convince us otherwise.
Cry me a another river…
Ari gold,
"But you see Sudan agreed to South Sudan's independence so it was lawful, got full recognition and now is already a member of the UN."
A very simple process indeed following 22 years of war and 5 years of talks.
"Roughly two million people have died as a result of war, famine and disease caused by the conflict. Four million people in southern Sudan have been displaced at least once (and often repeatedly) during the war"
Definite a benchmark to set as a goal for independence. Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
Ari,
I hoped that you would've learned a thing or two by now. Obviously, you haven't. Let me decipher a couple of things for you.
Albanians don't think that the West is 'in love' with us. This idea is ridicoulus. Albanians are grateful to the West. There's a big difference.
Serbs lived alongside Albanians for centuries and failed to learn anything about them. Maybe, this is one of the reasons they lost Kosovo.
Sadly, these days, Serbs like you Ari who know the Kosovo issue is a done deal have no other artillery but cheap shots and propaganda. If you think it help then keep at it.
Newborn or stillborn, that's the big question. A newborn usually makes progress and is learning things very quickly - a thing that cannot be observed when looking at the 'young Europeans'
(Comm. Parrisson, 25 June 2012 16:07)
--
Oh, and the other option of Newporn. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvMo6zYzUQY
I'm not sure pictures will be 100% effective. We've already seen how the west and their brown nosers freely interpret the agreements they've already signed.
I suppose the main point about the pictures is so that Ashton doesn't commit some huge diplomatic gaffe that mightily upsets one side, the other or both sides.
She would be completely useless though on the Balkans.
Just wait until they figure this out and others throw their hats in to the ring... Lajack, Ashdown, Pack, the slovenian propagandist guy etc. i.e. all the scum of the earth who will only look after albanian interests - 'unofficially' of course.
Let us not forget the oil in South Sudan. South Sudan wouldn't exist either if not for the oil. It might be better to point out that the Albanians are Muslim and "new" countries made up of Muslims seem to always start off on the wrong foot.
River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
(Ecoman, 25 June 2012 18:34)
That's strange... the average Albanian in Albania lives close to the level of the average Chinese. But according to sj, China is the paradise of the world. And since sj is the CE of the B92 forums, I don't think that anybody has the necessary IQ to question his/her findings :)
You look a bit disturbed man , Sudan is been like this since 1500s but ok blame everything in religion. I am sure French Christian invadors to Africa did no damage in Algeria etc. Man you need to relax religion is a personal mater no need to push it on us.
And as a Christian you should learn tolerance not preach war but I guess this is why you joind the Military.
referendum is purest form and if you do not think so again fine but relax this is a forum to exchange ides in the end nothing you are I say here will change the world.
Can you let me know your nationality ?? Just to know maybe understand historically why you are so angry if you are Say from Armenia I do understand etc.
Best of luck to you but carrying all that hate for huge portion of the world is not good.
Kosovo has always been the heart of Serbia and we will not let anyone be a mediator of the talks with Kosovo.
(harvey, 26 June 2012 09:56
One has to wonder if you have been sleeping for the last few years and suddenly woke up and decided to write something. Talks have been going on for over a year now with a EU mediator and everyone in your govt seems to plan on that continuing with the only difference being changing the people in each of the chairs.
The Albanians have their truth and the Serbians have their's and neither of them will ever find common ground.A divorce is required and the assets need to be split amicably.You can't give the whole house to one party as both have have been guilty of domestic abuse regardless of what they might want you to believe.There aren't any saints in this part of the world, well at least not living.
Not really. The road to independence is not that long at all, if you are a real country. South Sudan declared independence 4 years after you guys and already got full recognition.
(Ari Gold, 25 June 2012 15:51)
I thought there were almost 200 countries in the world, but you seem to think that there are less than 120 !!!
But you are correct; the road the independence is not long at all; it took Kosovo just 3 months in 1999
Well, if Serbia was like Afghanistan it could hold out forever. As long as you don't have heavily populated areas and infrastructure worth destroying you can hold out forever. You can't damage bare earth now can you?
You can bomb caves and rocks all you want. Nobody would care, but bombing a developed country like Serbia is another story. Too populated, too much infrastructure. Any country in Europe would've "caved" a lot sooner.
(Peggy, 25 June 2012 23:04)
My point which seems to have totally went over your head: he said pointed out that South Sudan and Sudan agreed to independence as if theirs was a model approach that Kosovo should have taken. And I pointed out it was not that simple in before their 5 years of talks they had a war for 22 years which took more than 2million lives and displaced millions of others. The question is could SERBIA, not Afghanistan, Haiti, or timbuktu, handle a 20+ year war to come to the same point? Imagine where Serbia would be if they were in year 13 of a 20 year war. I don't think license plates would seem like a big issue, and Jeremic could not find an audience on a street corner.
..but carrying all that hate for huge portion of the world is not good.
(Bilbao, 26 June 2012 15:57)
Dude, I am not carrying the anger of the World in my heart - believe - I am a realist and very pragmatic person. I am baptized but do not go to church or practicing religion in a way Christians do - too hierarchical system what supresses basically every dissention, and Islam is the worst amongst monotheistic ideologies with its utter intolerance towards so called dhimmies. Yes, religion should make peole tolerant but Muslims (like Jehovah witnesses or orthodox Jews and etc) are not - try to critically examine Muhhamad and his deeds or "offend" their book(what a nonsense!!!) - your head would be chopped off...lol. Look what religious minorites have to go through in any country with Muslim majority! It is worst than communism was in Russia where people at least could read French philosophers and follow logic/common sense what is completely out of question with Islam. Kosovo is Serb territory and I support their violence over any Islamic one at any time because European democracy ( as imperfect as it is) stems from Judeo-Christianity and not from Islam - `cause they have none, in addition their senseless overbreeding what itself will cause wars in the future anyway...I do not think Bilbao, that you would tolerate somebody coming and taking over your property because at some point they outnumber you? Homo homini lupus est, we all have masks what we use accordingly...
"River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
Ecoman"
Ecoman, I challenge you to a duel. What I mean by that is let's name a list of categories and then compare Serbia to Albania and how they've progressed in the last 10 years.
Based on your posts Serbia should be light years away from Albania.
Muslim Albanians, who do not like to live in Serbia, should be sent back to Albania or Turkey (their patrons) - like it happened in Algeria with French colonists - and then the peace will come to KiM - everybody`s happy!
(exKFOR to Bilbao, 25 June 2012 20:56)
============================
exKfor thanks for helping us in our road to independence
(Nikolle, 27 June 2012 15:49)
I have to admit I failed as do not see KiM being independent, it is legally part of Serbia despite some pro-jihadist bigger countries and their boot-lickers smaller ones (including my own government) kind of treating you formally as "independent" - in fact KiM is totally dependent on foreign aid - be it jihadists` criminal money or EU funds...lol. Besides, 98% KiM colonist Albanians are not free and independent - Koran dictates what to do or how you should bend to Arabs/Turks? Insha`Allah and pacim!
exKfor thanks for helping us in our road to independence
(Nikolle, 27 June 2012 15:49)
I have to admit I failed as do not see KiM being independent, it is legally part of Serbia despite some pro-jihadist bigger countries and their boot-lickers smaller ones (including my own government) kind of treating you formally as "independent" - in fact KiM is totally dependent on foreign aid - be it jihadists` criminal money or EU funds...lol. Besides, 98% KiM colonist Albanians are not free and independent - Koran dictates what to do or how you should bend to Arabs/Turks? Insha`Allah and pacim!
to Bilbao, 26 June 2012 19:21)
To Speak of Kosovo as an Islamic state is to admit you have never been to Kosovo.
90+%of the people practice their religion the way you practice yours, mainly name only. One of the ironic things when I was there was almost everyone worked on Friday, but hardly anyone worked on Sunday. This is not true in your Islamic countries.
Put it this way exKfor, I am in possession of a Kosovar passport, which Serbia deems illegal and their police can do nothing to me. Nor do I have to respect a SINGLE law of the Serbian Republic :-)
Newborn or stillborn, that's the big question. A newborn usually makes progress and is learning things very quickly - a thing that cannot be observed when looking at the 'young Europeans'
Ari,
I hoped that you would've learned a thing or two by now. Obviously, you haven't. Let me decipher a couple of things for you.
Albanians don't think that the West is 'in love' with us. This idea is ridicoulus. Albanians are grateful to the West. There's a big difference.
Serbs lived alongside Albanians for centuries and failed to learn anything about them. Maybe, this is one of the reasons they lost Kosovo.
Sadly, these days, Serbs like you Ari who know the Kosovo issue is a done deal have no other artillery but cheap shots and propaganda. If you think it help then keep at it.
Ecoman, you're right!
A newborn has to start somewhere. It's a long road to self-actualization, if you know what that is.
Pity on those countries which have been around for a while, as independent countries, that are stick stuck at infancy.
Let's see. Economically depressed, socially inept, morally corrupt and educationally at the bottom of the world where half the population is iliterate. The list goes on.
Ecoman, since you're such a knowledgable person, could you guess what country I'm talking about?
I love the sarcasm. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Ashton could pick up some useful tips from the cheap greek & turkish eateries on the Marche aux Fromages in Brussels. Each menu option has a picture next to it with a price. She could have the same but instead with pictures of all officials, the prices next to the albanian politicians would be far in excess of the EUR7 a basic meal...
Good idea, EU dude, place pictures next to the agreements Serbia makes with Pristina and the EU, so as not to have differences of opinions in interpretations later on. After all, the Newborn is, well, a Newborn, and just like all starting out, it's picture books and crayons. Gee, I love this sarcasm, thanks for steering me that way, Nikolle.
Not really. The road to independence is not that long at all, if you are a real country. South Sudan declared independence 4 years after you guys and already got full recognition.
See that's what happens when you know, your a real recognized entity. Not a Western pawn who will be dumped as soon as you are no longer needed. Don't worry the rest of Serbia is pretty much the same pawn sadly.
But you see Sudan agreed to South Sudan's independence so it was lawful, got full recognition and now is already a member of the UN.
You can say that what Serbia says or thinks doesn't matter but in reality it does. I don't blame you, you are the same people who swear the West loves you guys and will always be there to fight for your sick wet dreams of stealing Serbian territory.
But as we all know, if Serbia's opinion does not matter...there would not be such an effort to have these 'negotiations' and send high level diplomats from the West to Belgrade to convince us otherwise.
Now it may very well be that OUR government in fact legitimizes your land grab. And that's the best you could hope for.
Our disunity and ability to elect fifth columnists is the best hope you have to legalize your theft.
River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
Ari gold,
"But you see Sudan agreed to South Sudan's independence so it was lawful, got full recognition and now is already a member of the UN."
A very simple process indeed following 22 years of war and 5 years of talks.
"Roughly two million people have died as a result of war, famine and disease caused by the conflict. Four million people in southern Sudan have been displaced at least once (and often repeatedly) during the war"
Definite a benchmark to set as a goal for independence. Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
Definite a benchmark to set as a goal for independence. Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
(a New Day, 25 June 2012 17:32)
The process of independence was started after the referendum and you saw how a real country gets recognition. After less than a week of independence it got the recognition's it needed to join the UN.
And "Kosovo*" how long is it taking with how much Western money? And you still cant secure recognition's of anyone outside of Western client states and irrelevant pacific island "nations".
LOL and please act like you were the ones bombing us for 78 days. We were bombed by the strongest military force in the world and still lasted longer than the KLA did in 97' when the Serbian police force wiped the floor with terrorist scum.
Even Adem Jashari used his own family as human shields after committing murders but sadly for him not even they were enough to keep him from his inevitable demise.
Newborn or stillborn, that's the big question. A newborn usually makes progress and is learning things very quickly - a thing that cannot be observed when looking at the 'young Europeans'
(Comm. Parrisson, 25 June 2012 16:07)
--
Oh, and the other option of Newporn. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvMo6zYzUQY
I'm not sure pictures will be 100% effective. We've already seen how the west and their brown nosers freely interpret the agreements they've already signed.
I suppose the main point about the pictures is so that Ashton doesn't commit some huge diplomatic gaffe that mightily upsets one side, the other or both sides.
She would be completely useless though on the Balkans.
Just wait until they figure this out and others throw their hats in to the ring... Lajack, Ashdown, Pack, the slovenian propagandist guy etc. i.e. all the scum of the earth who will only look after albanian interests - 'unofficially' of course.
Sadly, these days, Serbs like you Ari who know the Kosovo issue is a done deal have no other artillery but cheap shots and propaganda. If you think it help then keep at it.
(cry me a river, 25 June 2012 20:23)
The only for sure “done deal” is death. And I most certainly agree with you that “Kosova project” is done deal… if it was anything different you wouldn’t be here day in and day out trying to convince us otherwise.
Cry me a another river…
Serbs lived alongside Albanians for centuries and failed to learn anything about them. Maybe, this is one of the reasons they lost Kosovo.
(cry me a river, 25 June 2012
====================================
OK, so what is it we were supposed to learn about you and didn't that made you so hostile, hateful and bloodthirsty?
You also have lived alongside us for a very long time and failed to become friendly to us and not want us out of Europe. By your own admission, on this site, you have been wanting to kick Serbs out of Europe for hundreds of years, so what should've we learned in order for you to treat us like human beings?
Perhaps you are upset that we managed to free ourselves from Turks and retain our religion which you so obviously failed and are now extremely resentful. Maybe we should've capitulated like you and then we would be decent human beings in your eyes.
Referendum was held only in the South Sudan and only people there where eligible to VOTE would you like a referendum in Kosovo.
Same as in Quebec or in the future in Scotland.
Firstly -Muslim Arabs in Sudan are intruders as Muslims are in the Balkans. It would be legtimate for black Sudanese to kick invaders out and have all Sudan, don`t you think so, do you? In Canada both Anglo-Saxons and French are intruders - Indians have right to say whether white colonists are to stay or ship them back to where their ancestors came from( it happened by the way in Algeria with blackfeet - you may call it re-establishing of a historical justice). Scots - had their own kingdom what was conquered by British as Turks and Albanian Muslims seized KiM - those events are well documented what one cannot say about mysterious Illyrian-Albanian linkage and all those fairy-tales jihadists boasts here as "historical proof". Fair game - Muslim Albanians, who do not like to live in Serbia, should be sent back to Albania or Turkey (their patrons) - like it happened in Algeria with French colonists - and then the peace will come to KiM - everybody`s happy!
"Let's see. Economically depressed, socially inept, morally corrupt and educationally at the bottom of the world where half the population is iliterate. The list goes on"
Cry me a river
That is a perfect description of both Kosovo and Albania. Serbia is far from perfect but compared to any albanian inhabited territories Serbia is heaven on earth. Ask yourself why both Albania and Kosovo are isolated?
“We Albanians are tired of feeling cut off from the world”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/europe/24iht-albania.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
Your comment just shows that you albanians are not in touch of reality what so ever.
Serbia caved after 78 days of bombing, and according to many here at a cost of 50 billion dollars (although I have never seen anything to support it) damage to your infrastructure. wonder how you would fare with 20+years of it.
(a New Day, 25 June 2012 17:32)
=============================
Well, if Serbia was like Afghanistan it could hold out forever. As long as you don't have heavily populated areas and infrastructure worth destroying you can hold out forever. You can't damage bare earth now can you?
You can bomb caves and rocks all you want. Nobody would care, but bombing a developed country like Serbia is another story. Too populated, too much infrastructure. Any country in Europe would've "caved" a lot sooner.
Let us not forget the oil in South Sudan. South Sudan wouldn't exist either if not for the oil. It might be better to point out that the Albanians are Muslim and "new" countries made up of Muslims seem to always start off on the wrong foot.
Not really. The road to independence is not that long at all, if you are a real country. South Sudan declared independence 4 years after you guys and already got full recognition.
(Ari Gold, 25 June 2012 15:51)
I thought there were almost 200 countries in the world, but you seem to think that there are less than 120 !!!
But you are correct; the road the independence is not long at all; it took Kosovo just 3 months in 1999
River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
(Ecoman, 25 June 2012 18:34)
That's strange... the average Albanian in Albania lives close to the level of the average Chinese. But according to sj, China is the paradise of the world. And since sj is the CE of the B92 forums, I don't think that anybody has the necessary IQ to question his/her findings :)
Well, if Serbia was like Afghanistan it could hold out forever. As long as you don't have heavily populated areas and infrastructure worth destroying you can hold out forever. You can't damage bare earth now can you?
You can bomb caves and rocks all you want. Nobody would care, but bombing a developed country like Serbia is another story. Too populated, too much infrastructure. Any country in Europe would've "caved" a lot sooner.
(Peggy, 25 June 2012 23:04)
My point which seems to have totally went over your head: he said pointed out that South Sudan and Sudan agreed to independence as if theirs was a model approach that Kosovo should have taken. And I pointed out it was not that simple in before their 5 years of talks they had a war for 22 years which took more than 2million lives and displaced millions of others. The question is could SERBIA, not Afghanistan, Haiti, or timbuktu, handle a 20+ year war to come to the same point? Imagine where Serbia would be if they were in year 13 of a 20 year war. I don't think license plates would seem like a big issue, and Jeremic could not find an audience on a street corner.
You look a bit disturbed man , Sudan is been like this since 1500s but ok blame everything in religion. I am sure French Christian invadors to Africa did no damage in Algeria etc. Man you need to relax religion is a personal mater no need to push it on us.
And as a Christian you should learn tolerance not preach war but I guess this is why you joind the Military.
referendum is purest form and if you do not think so again fine but relax this is a forum to exchange ides in the end nothing you are I say here will change the world.
Can you let me know your nationality ?? Just to know maybe understand historically why you are so angry if you are Say from Armenia I do understand etc.
Best of luck to you but carrying all that hate for huge portion of the world is not good.
The Albanians have their truth and the Serbians have their's and neither of them will ever find common ground.A divorce is required and the assets need to be split amicably.You can't give the whole house to one party as both have have been guilty of domestic abuse regardless of what they might want you to believe.There aren't any saints in this part of the world, well at least not living.
..but carrying all that hate for huge portion of the world is not good.
(Bilbao, 26 June 2012 15:57)
Dude, I am not carrying the anger of the World in my heart - believe - I am a realist and very pragmatic person. I am baptized but do not go to church or practicing religion in a way Christians do - too hierarchical system what supresses basically every dissention, and Islam is the worst amongst monotheistic ideologies with its utter intolerance towards so called dhimmies. Yes, religion should make peole tolerant but Muslims (like Jehovah witnesses or orthodox Jews and etc) are not - try to critically examine Muhhamad and his deeds or "offend" their book(what a nonsense!!!) - your head would be chopped off...lol. Look what religious minorites have to go through in any country with Muslim majority! It is worst than communism was in Russia where people at least could read French philosophers and follow logic/common sense what is completely out of question with Islam. Kosovo is Serb territory and I support their violence over any Islamic one at any time because European democracy ( as imperfect as it is) stems from Judeo-Christianity and not from Islam - `cause they have none, in addition their senseless overbreeding what itself will cause wars in the future anyway...I do not think Bilbao, that you would tolerate somebody coming and taking over your property because at some point they outnumber you? Homo homini lupus est, we all have masks what we use accordingly...
to Bilbao, 26 June 2012 19:21)
To Speak of Kosovo as an Islamic state is to admit you have never been to Kosovo.
90+%of the people practice their religion the way you practice yours, mainly name only. One of the ironic things when I was there was almost everyone worked on Friday, but hardly anyone worked on Sunday. This is not true in your Islamic countries.
"River, I would imagine you are talking about Albania. But you paint a somewhat modest picture of how horrible this place actually is. After Albanian controlled Kosovo, Albania is certainly second - in economics, crime, corruption, weak legal system, and depressed outlook. I agree with you, Albania has a long way to go. Good luck.
Ecoman"
Ecoman, I challenge you to a duel. What I mean by that is let's name a list of categories and then compare Serbia to Albania and how they've progressed in the last 10 years.
Based on your posts Serbia should be light years away from Albania.
Kosovo has always been the heart of Serbia and we will not let anyone be a mediator of the talks with Kosovo.
(harvey, 26 June 2012 09:56
One has to wonder if you have been sleeping for the last few years and suddenly woke up and decided to write something. Talks have been going on for over a year now with a EU mediator and everyone in your govt seems to plan on that continuing with the only difference being changing the people in each of the chairs.
Muslim Albanians, who do not like to live in Serbia, should be sent back to Albania or Turkey (their patrons) - like it happened in Algeria with French colonists - and then the peace will come to KiM - everybody`s happy!
(exKFOR to Bilbao, 25 June 2012 20:56)
============================
exKfor thanks for helping us in our road to independence
(Nikolle, 27 June 2012 15:49)
I have to admit I failed as do not see KiM being independent, it is legally part of Serbia despite some pro-jihadist bigger countries and their boot-lickers smaller ones (including my own government) kind of treating you formally as "independent" - in fact KiM is totally dependent on foreign aid - be it jihadists` criminal money or EU funds...lol. Besides, 98% KiM colonist Albanians are not free and independent - Koran dictates what to do or how you should bend to Arabs/Turks? Insha`Allah and pacim!
exKfor thanks for helping us in our road to independence
(Nikolle, 27 June 2012 15:49)
I have to admit I failed as do not see KiM being independent, it is legally part of Serbia despite some pro-jihadist bigger countries and their boot-lickers smaller ones (including my own government) kind of treating you formally as "independent" - in fact KiM is totally dependent on foreign aid - be it jihadists` criminal money or EU funds...lol. Besides, 98% KiM colonist Albanians are not free and independent - Koran dictates what to do or how you should bend to Arabs/Turks? Insha`Allah and pacim!
Put it this way exKfor, I am in possession of a Kosovar passport, which Serbia deems illegal and their police can do nothing to me. Nor do I have to respect a SINGLE law of the Serbian Republic :-)
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