"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"

No autonomy, no special status should be given to northern Kosovo, nothing more or less then the southern majority Serb municipalities enjoy in Kosovo. We have done our part of compromise, we adopted a multi ethnic flag, constitution, Serbian language being official, giving them more guaranteed seats in the parliament then any democratic Government in the world, all these to give our minority more rights then the vast majority yet they make less then 8% over the overall population. We owe you nothing, its the other way around since Belgrade never apologized for their atrocities. I'm against even to these talks, there is absolutely nothing we can gain from it.

Somebody actually pays these war criminals lead by Wesley Clark to publish this garbage??
They need to be reminded that it is in the Serbian constitution (thank you Kostunica) that Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia, period. Deal with reality.

Here's one of those rare issues on which Serbs and Albanians can agree: the ICG are a bunch of self-interested clowns with neither the intellectual nor the moral authority to pronounce on anything.

This has proven what I've said numerous times. Yes, the K.Albs would have much of a better shot of their retarded child project "kosova" succeeding if Serbia just "took" (we all know they already have it) the north in exchange for recognition.

What Serbia needs to do is to refuse that, on the grounds that all of Kosovo belongs to Serbia. North Kosovo will be the death of this retarded child project since it will show the weakness of the occupiers in Pristina unable to govern what they view as their own country.

It's obvious here. The battle of Kosovo is not Serbs against Albanians, its Serbs against the Empire. When the empire pulls out since the empire is obviously not sustainable then we will have our country back.

Until then, wait paitently.

28. Jun, Nema Predaje

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31)
====================

Only Albanians can bargain with someone else's property.
I steal it and then I bargain with it with the real owner.
Monty Python stuff.

and why would this group think autonomy can work in northern kosovo as part of kosovo but not autonomy for kosovo as part of serbia ? Pure rubbish!!!

Wait long enough and the proverbial “nut” starts to crack. Now it an offer of autonomy to Serbs in the North. Considering the current economic crises in the west I’ll predict that about August this year it will be “to divide Kosovo”.

That's not good advice from the ICG because it wont change our stance but will only show Albanian weakness, desperation and despair when Borko Stefanovic laughs in the face of the Albanian negotiators and at the cameras when he talks to the media about it.

More nwo propaganda against orthodox serbs! Go home yankee occupiers!

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.

Recognition for something Serbia has said it will never do in exchange for a piece of territory they already control?

I read this ICG report yesterday. The gist of it states that as of now Pristina has nothing tangible to offer the K-Serbs in the north that they don't already enjoy far more of under Belgrade. Additionally, the report says the north is fully integrated within Belgrade's system, and nearly everyone there outright rejects any attempt by Pristina to "integrate" it. EULEX is also doing little to nothing to promote this. Offering autonomy does nothing. Offering it in exchange for Belgrade's recognition is laughable. Most Albanian elites in Pristina want no special status for the north anyway, making whatever they say and whatever they demand irrelevant.

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"

I would propose something very similar that makes more sense: "Recogition in exchange for the north" :-)

I know this idea is not going to be popular with many Serbs (I do not care what Albanians think even if they agree with me). First of all let I state that as far as I am concerned no Serb should ever live again under Muslim rule, meaning living in an area where Muslims are a majority. Second of all Albanians are welcome in Serbia if they behave and I do not care if they have their own schools, language and even autonomy. Third of all I do not think that Serbia should give in to demands from war criminals, drug thugs, and international pressure from countries that preach one thing but then violate a countries territorial integrity. That said I believe that a practical compromise about Kosovo is possible without losing face or facing humiliation. From a Serb perspective this must mean that we know for sure that our ancestors will not turn inside their graves and that all the lives lost during the last century where not in vain. The main barrier to a lasting peace and consequently more prosperity is the foreign influence on The Balkan that is mainly aimed to keep ethnic groups divided and creating conditions that promote constant tension and potential future conflict. The problem is that Kosovo Albanians have become greedy and very unrealistic, but that is their problem and so they have to accept the consequences of that. They do not realize that eventually their current masters will have more important interests and their resources for pet projects are drying up quickly. Personally I think that 2 million Albanians inside Serbia is a big obstacle for a better future. Some land swaps and cantonization of Kosovo is the only viable solution. Serbs want to control Kosovo lands but not the Albanians who live their. The Serb cantons will include all historical and Orthodox religious sites, including the presence of Serb police and security forces. The areas where the Albanians are the majority can as far as I am concerned turn into a mafia/drug/extreme Islam paradise/prison/ghetto/whatever. We all know that without NATO in Kosovo the KLA thugs would be taken care of or in Albania (they know the route well for they used it twice). I am sure Albanians would view this as a victory, a sign of weakness from Serbia and unfortunately a cart blanche to restart trouble in other countries to do some more land grabs. An independent Kosovo is and will be a cursed place for Albanians and a disaster for every non-Albanian. We cannot let down or brothers and sisters inside KiM, but we also have to acknowledge that we cannot let them live like the past 12 years because of political reasons. We will be patient and one day all of Kosovo will be under Serbian rule again, make no mistake about that. Until that time we have to develop Serbia to a regional powerhouse so that when that day will be here that Kosovo will be reintegrated in no time and will become part of a dynamic and prosperous economy. That is my dream and vision.

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31)
--
Again, I don't understand the logic here. Serbia controls the north while the residents there participate in Serbian elections and Serbian companies operate without a problem. We don't need autonomy when it is already integrated into Serbian structures.

While in Presevo, ethnic Albanians are also fully integrated into Serbian structures and participate in Serbian elections.

I mean, what are you guys expecting? Serbia to just give away control of two areas it already controls for nothing? Keep dreaming my friends because if that logic makes sense to you, I have a great offer for you. I'll take your car and in exchange for that I'll take your house.

Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31) your not majority in the preshovo valley.

Preševo (with Albanian majority), Bujanovac (with Serbian majority) and Medveđa (with Serb majority). bye bye

(thank you Kostunica) that Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia, period. Deal with reality.
(Dragan, 15 March 2011 14:28)

You guys are violating your own constitution revised during Kostunica's power. If Kosova is integral part of Serbia, from where i am standing, I don't see any Sebian police/military or what have you.

Not a snowballs chance in hell!
All of Kosovo is Serbian,we will not give up one square metre !
Period!

"If Kosova is integral part of Serbia, from where i am standing, I don't see any Sebian police/military or what have you."
(Agim Kelmendi, 15 March 2011 17:13)

Maybe that's not such a good example, Agim. According to that, Kosovo would be an integral part of the EU and UN, because there's EULEX and KFOR, and there's no such thing as Kosovo police/military, only KPS/KSF

No autonomy, no special status should be given to northern Kosovo, nothing more or less then the southern majority Serb municipalities enjoy in Kosovo. We have done our part of compromise, we adopted a multi ethnic flag, constitution, Serbian language being official, giving them more guaranteed seats in the parliament then any democratic Government in the world, all these to give our minority more rights then the vast majority yet they make less then 8% over the overall population. We owe you nothing, its the other way around since Belgrade never apologized for their atrocities. I'm against even to these talks, there is absolutely nothing we can gain from it.
(Pejoni, 15 March 2011 14:18)

That illusion that kosovo is multi ethnic with rights for all minorities is complete and utter Bull*obsenity* used for good media. In reality, Serbs live in Nazi-Like ghettos protected only by international treaties. You go on about Serbian atrocities, If you looked past the american propoganda, you would realise that they were very very few in number, and you would see the appaling atrocities commited by the Albanian side. If you really want to see how well Multi Ethnic kosovo is working; then go to pristina, and start speaking in Serbian, I reckon you'll survive 15 seconds

I see Albanians repeatedly mention Vojvodina here. Dear Albanians from Kosovo in Vojvodina Serbs comprise 70% percent of total population. Vojvodina is truly multiethnic area unlike Kosovo which never used to be and especially it's not today. Kosovo is distanced from any kind of multicultural life within million of light years. Problems in Vojvodina doesn't exist at all. I know you would like to see them but I'll dissapoint you by telling to you that tensions among 26 ethnic communities in Vojvodina exists in your heads. Those wishes are not real at all. Get real as soon as possible!

As for the topic Serbs already have special status considering the fact that Priština does not have any kind of jurisdiction in northern part of Kosovo and Metohija. By the way it's not up to Pristina to make any decisions concerning northern part of Kosovo and Metohija.

I have a fair deal.

Serbia gets a 50g bag of Smoki and Kosovars continue to have and hold on to Kosova.

I think this would be a positive step in the right direction:)

"Serbs in northern Mitrovica should have the same rights to the Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja and otherway around."

EA

First of all Presevo is not on the agenda. If you want independence for every territory there is an albanian the whole world would be Albania. Second, the albanians in Presevo have far greater rights then serbs in Kosovo. How many mosques in Presevo have been burned? Do albanians need KFOR protection to go to the market, cemetary, school, work etc? Are albanians attacked on a daily basis by serbs? Let's face it. K-albs are loosing ground. More and more people across the world are realizing what misstake they have made recognizing this banana republic of mafiosos.

Serbs should never accept aoutonomy since the whole territory belongs to the serbian people. The day we accept albanian domination they will flood Serbia with their 10 children per family policy and entire Serbia will become impovrished, corrupt and dirty like Albania. Just say NO to anything albanian.

I will echo my fellow countryman.

NO SPECIAL STATUS.... Same as Presheva Valley and Medvegj.



Thanks,

Recognition for something Serbia has said it will never do in exchange for a piece of territory they already control?
(Mike, 15 March 2011 16:16)
--
I've been trying to figure this one out. Looks like these people have visited Thaci and got high on his supply.

What exactly is Serbia gaining by recognising "Kosova" and giving away territory we actually control? Perhaps this is something K-Albanians will understand or is preparing them to eventually accept the North is gone.

"Autonomy for Northen Kosovo "What a ridiculous statement by ICG.Northen Kosovo is populated by Serbian people,therefore,it does not need autonomy, because its in Serbia.Kosovo Albanians needs autonomy and got it.There is not a chance that Kosovo would ever become sovereign state.Negotiations which are taking place now between Serbia and Kosovo are technical in nature, dealing with law in order issues, economy and preservation and protection of Serbian's cultural shrines.No amount of loose talk and wishful thinking can change reality. ICG and others who are determined to create independent Kosovo, by trying to coerce Serbia in accepting their new design for Republic of Serbia will fail.ICG and
others do not have authority or capacity to re-engineer the borders of Serbia.
Only legal document which authorize international presence in Kosovo is UNSC resolution 1244.Kosovo Albanians have difficulties managing their affairs on autonomous level,let alone being viable, responsible, independent,sovereign state.

# Only Albanians can bargain with someone else's property.
I steal it and then I bargain with it with the real owner.
Monty Python stuff.
(Peggy, 15 March 2011 21:31)

Not if you stole it first, it was ours all along.
He He He ...beat that!
(miri, 16 March 2011 00:58)
=======================
He He He ...beat that!???? What the?

What do you think we are? Children?
Now behave.
First prove to us that it was yours first and then we can talk about who stole what from whom.
C'mon, let's see something left behind from Albanians before Serbs settled to suggest that it was Albanian.

If you can't, kindly keep quiet or you will be sent to the naughty corner.

well, somehow amusing that the ICG is giving advises to the K-albanians... as if that was something new.

as far as I am concerned, there is nothing to give them as a present at all.

it´s serbian territory, all of KiM, don´t ever forget that, and you can repeat it as much as you wish that it was yours before and the Serbs came from "Sirbiria" and all the other nonsense you´re constantly bringing up....

there is no albanian kosovaah, fullstop.

the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians,
but the serb state does not have to bargain with own territory.

albanian dreams, nothing more.

The west is cracking. Keep the pressure on and the eu and us will go their separate ways. kosovo will never get into the eu by itself and cannot annex to a "greater albania" which won't get anywhere near the eu for a very long time anyway. The eu train is leaving with Serbia on board and you are being left at the station with your stillborn pseudo-state.

@Iliri

Educate yourself please! Serbs were majority in Vojvodina in 1991. too. Then they comprised 57% of total population. Population has grown thanks to ethnic cleansing over Serbs conveyed by Croatia, the part of B&H nowdays known as federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and of course by Albanian terrorists in Kosovo. You cannot compare Kosovo and Vojvodina not even in your dreams.

Shuold we then expect Autonomy for Presheva valley?(As a minimum let's not talk about half of what's called Macedonia)

I have mentioned many times in the past, Serbs in northern Mitrovica should have the same rights to the Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja and otherway around.

It also says--"The North suffers from a near-total absence of productive employment and depends on state subsidies for its survival; rule of law is weak."
(a New Day, 15 March 2011 22:17)
Hmm, this sounds to me more like a general problem of Kosovo, and to less extend, Serbia. I conclude: Further integration of the north into Serbia would surely improve the situation.

epiroti,

Don't forget your usernamesake then goes to Greece. Fair is fair, right? ;)

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31)

I would sign on the dotted line for the above deal. And then tell everyone to move the f(expletive)k on with their lives.

--Serbs should never accept aoutonomy since the whole territory belongs to the serbian people. The day we accept albanian domination they will flood Serbia with their 10 children per family policy and entire Serbia will become impovrished, corrupt and dirty like Albania. Just say NO to anything albanian.--

Another b-92 special. doesn't matter who says it, who writes it.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 16 March 2011 03:28)

It does matter - because no one said it only you. You are the one who made the "B92 special". But I appreciate your grammar is significantly better than usual. Are you already in Pristina and got a pure grade organic hashish from Organic Hashim?

BTW: no SF or "The City" is not "Frisco". Frisco is in Texas. Using it for SF is an insult and is objected by most in the Bay Area.

http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/Pages/Default.aspx

"the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians, "


Why, then, did Serbia request this insignificant organization to rule on the matter?
(Danilo, 16 March 2011 21:50)"

Since when did Serbia ask the ICG to rule about anything??????? In your dreams obviously .... what a nightmare!

How many mosques in Presevo have been burned?
(MikeC, 15 March 2011 20:07)

I do not know how many are burned in Presevo but I know that they are burned all of them in Kosova from "Great" Serbian Army. And did not you burned the other one in Beograd too?

John, absolutely right. I think the Kalbs still believe that 100000 have disappeared (Albright). They still believe all the HATO crap when any intelligent, objective person knows 99pct to be false propaganda. When will they wake up from their self inflicted victimhood.

If you can't, kindly keep quiet or you will be sent to the naughty corner.
(Peggy, 16 March 2011 12:05)


You're wrong "mama" Peggy!

A New Day, we're reading the same article but apparently drawing different conclusions. Northern Kosovo is, to be sure, considerably "autonomous" as it is now, what with an operating local goverment. But this government marches in step with Belgrade and having been to the north, I quickly noticed it working, rather smoothly, within the political, economic, and legal parameters of the larger Serbian state, with most if not all of the locals associating the area as Serbia. So I have to conclude that the north is significantly integrated with Belgrade. At the very least to the degree that any offers from Pristina fall on deaf ears.

Having said that though, I don't foresee Belgrade being able to eliminate this de facto "autonomy". So I basically agree with you that exerting direct authority over an area that has operated under self-determination since 1999 would be counterproductive. But the question remains as to whether Belgrade will retain formal control over the north, or agree to let it operate within its present autonomous position. One thing is likely, Pristina will not get any closer to controlling it after these talks. It may very well remain part of "Kosovo" but I'm pretty sure those close links with Belgrade will remain. If the north remains within Kosovo, which I predict it will, that is, as you say, a finger in Pristina's eye, especially as Mitrovica serves as the regional Serbian center for all K-Serbs north and south of the Ibar (which it pretty much is now), while simultaneously serving as the tranitiory point between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia.

So in exchange for recognition Serbia would get de jure autonomy for the north. Even "more than autonomy, less than independence" for the north would be acceptable I think. Whatever that means.

Is this not precisely what was on the table for the K Albs for such a long time but was rejected out of hand so many times? It seems monumentally ironic that anyone should now suggest this as a comprimise offer to the Serbs. It appears to me that the startinf position in these negotiations is "Kosovo is Serbia" Any solutions/comprimises need to be negotiated from that position. To assume that it is a given that Kosovo is independant seems somewhat short sighted and overly optimistic on the part of the K Albs. If this was the case, explain why such an overwhelming majority of countries have, 3 years after the "UDI" still not recognised? It is time to start thinking about the humanitarian effect on the people actually having to live in this mess. I feel maybe it is also time to tell the likes of the US to stop intefering to safeguard their military installations and to allow the people of the region to make their own decisions. After all, the US does not have a particularly good track record with its interventionist policies now does it....Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea...the list goes on.

But we were told that Kosovo was a muli-ethnic, post-nationalisic region. It was not about the Albanians. Nope, it was about Kosovars. Why should Kosovars in the North be different from Kosovars in the South?

Well, maybe Kosovo is not so multi-ethnic and post-nationalistic...

I wonder what is the difference, autonomy is the last step to indipendence, but let you remind one thing, if 1974 borders change, then borders in Bosnia, Vojvodina, Southern Serbia, Sandjak, Western Fyrom will change as well...
(epiroti, 16 March 2011 03:03)

Quite a lot of Albanians reject the idiotic nationalism - but B92 English language forum became an outlet where the minority can talk nonsense loudly.

For start: the many potential voters in Kosovo did not find any political party being appealing. What was the real voter turnover - can anyone elaborate?

You're wrong "mama" Peggy!
(miri, 16 March 2011 14:32)
===================

Right or wrong, I am still waiting on that proof. I know I am not the only one.
Do you have any?

The "North" Kosova problem was created by the French in order to block Kosova independence,it has failed. But it has succeeded in creating a problem that will bring instability and war for a very long time.

Only Albanians can bargain with someone else's property.
I steal it and then I bargain with it with the real owner.
Monty Python stuff.
(Peggy, 15 March 2011 21:31)

Not if you stole it first, it was ours all along.
He He He ...beat that!

Mike, no one gives a serbian kebab about northen mitrovica , if you ask me you can have it, but Presevo valley goes with us...no double standarts,please, if you want ethnical borders, let's have them all the way ...then sandjak goes to bosnia, and RS goes to serbia(this serbian-bosnian border will be the funniest looking map ever considering that brcko goes to croatia, and sandjak has no border with the muslim federation what so ever)...vojvodina eventually is divided among serbia, hungary and croatia...just like fyrom among albania and BG...and western outlands go to bulgaria as well, along with banat to romania...this way every one will be happy...forgot about those separatists of montenegro, serbia can have most of it apart ulqin and malsia, ...

Sorry to delay you the proof.
95% of the population in K. speak Albanian.
(miri, 17 March 2011 20:09)
=====================

That's not proof. You can say the same thing about California or even some parts of London or Paris.
Extremely high birth rate is no proof of being tied to the land a thousand years ago.

Serbs have proof of ownership and making their mark on that land. Again, where is your proof?

I think autonomy for the north is a good idea regardless of recognition.

your not majority in the preshovo valley.

Preševo (with Albanian majority), Bujanovac (with Serbian majority) and Medveđa (with Serb majority). bye bye
(tom, 15 March 2011 16:32)

Perhaps we are not majority in P. Valley but it doesn't matter.
There are roughly 60K Serbs in K-North. I'm sure we can find 60K Albanians or more in P. Valley; Will carve it up house to house.

Mike, apparently you mistakenly read a different report.
It says nothing about the north being fully integrated with Serbia. It says they affiliate with Serbia and accepts the money from Serbia that is supplied simply to keep the Pristina authorities out, but it is no more under Serbian control than that of Pristina.
It also says--"The North suffers from a near-total absence of productive employment and depends on state subsidies for its survival; rule of law is weak."
The last thing Serbia would want is to have the north join back into the ranks of Serbia because then they would have to control it and that would be almost impossible, and would pit Serbs against Serbs. But having them to become autonomous inside of Kosovo would be ideal for Serbia because then they would be able to always have a finger to poke into the sides of Pristina and create a little trouble anytime it suits them.

''I see Albanians repeatedly mention Vojvodina here.''

Vojvodina has been having a serb majority only after the 1990s...serbs kicked out of Croatia and the so called Rep Krajina were deliberately given lands in vojvodina by serb gov to balance the hungarian presence there...now hungarians are a minority there, i sympathetise with hungarians, they remind me of us, Albanians...yet, unlike hungarians, we won't fail in uniting our nation...

Listen Serb...and i m tired of hearing the same propaganda how we burn churches, yeah we burn churches, mosques, we even burned our own curches and mosques in 1960s, what makes you think we care about serb churches...churches, mosques, synagoges are only buildings anyway, if they get destroyed , new better ones can be built, but, unlike serbs, we don't burn innocent women and and children, you can not turn back to life a living being...also let me tell you sth, churches , mosques, and synagoges which are built over illyrian ruins will be demolished as soon as we have the first opurtunity...don't missunderstand me, i respect religion, as long as it does not represent serbo-greek hegemony, as long as it does not spread hate, and as long as it does not destroy our history...for your info, serb churches were built over the ruins of romanesque churches in most cases, and in other cases over the ruins of pagan temples, OUR pagan temples...yet 90% of actual churches in Kosovo were built during 80s and 90s by milosevic...wait, weren't serbs who burnt croatian churches , bosnian and albanian mosques back then? Also, how you have the moral to talk about us burning your churches, as you were the ones to burn to ground the seat of League of Prizren in 1999 along with 200 000 albanian houses and residences...

"I mean, what are you guys expecting? Serbia to just give away control of two areas it already controls for nothing? "


That's like saying "You're saying a drowning man should give up a bag of bricks for nothing???"

"the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians, "


Why, then, did Serbia request this insignificant organization to rule on the matter?

It seems Albanians start to realize that Kosovo will remain a blackhole without the recognition of Serbia, Russia, China etc. What foreign investment do they expect in the current situation? Apart from Libya and Afghanistan, Kosovo would be the last place where I'd like to start a business at the moment and the situation doesn't really get any better. Now Albanians offer authonomy for the north, I would say; let's wait a bit and see what there is more on offer...

It seems Albanians start to realize that Kosovo will remain a blackhole without the recognition of Serbia, Russia, China etc. What foreign investment do they expect in the current situation? Apart from Libya and Afghanistan, Kosovo would be the last place where I'd like to start a business at the moment and the situation doesn't really get any better. Now Albanians offer authonomy for the north, I would say; let's wait a bit and see what there is more on offer...
(JS, 17 March 2011 02:18)
I think the article is about the ICG saying autonomy in exchange for recognition would be the logical solution. It did not say the "Albanians" were offering anything. If you read into it that, then you must have read into it that the Serbs were offering recognition, right?

I think the article is about the ICG saying autonomy in exchange for recognition would be the logical solution. It did not say the "Albanians" were offering anything. If you read into it that, then you must have read into it that the Serbs were offering recognition, right?
(pss, 17 March 2011 10:23)

Mmh, I'm afraid you are right; I was a bit ahead of things. I'm sure though some kind of offer (and not very far from what is suggested here) will be the next best thing; Albanians are running out of time while Serbs have plenty.

It seems like a good offer to me. If a Serbian proposal for partition comes up (as the Serb negotiators and some ministers in Serbia say it will) this could be a good counter-offer. Kosovo government could give away some sovereignity over the north of Kosovo to get recognition from Serbia. Solutions where "one part gets everything and the other nothing" are not good after all. So in exchange for recognition Serbia would get de jure autonomy for the north. Even "more than autonomy, less than independence" for the north would be acceptable I think. Whatever that means.

If one looks at all this from a certain distance, not through Serbian or Albanian eyes, the absurdity of this situation is hilarious.

Perhaps we are not majority in P. Valley but it doesn't matter.
There are roughly 60K Serbs in K-North. I'm sure we can find 60K Albanians or more in P. Valley; Will carve it up house to house.
(miri, 15 March 2011 19:38)

I remember, not so long ago having a rather strange conversation with my Albanian neighbour. he said, "Janez, I want autonomy for my apartment and all the occupants in it. I said, "Agim are you crazy? what did your wife say?" He said, "I know, she said yes I am crazy". So on that we went down to local bar for a Jelen.

''I would propose something very similar that makes more sense: "Recogition in exchange for the north" :-)
(Top, 15 March 2011 13:25) ''

I wonder what is the difference, autonomy is the last step to indipendence, but let you remind one thing, if 1974 borders change, then borders in Bosnia, Vojvodina, Southern Serbia, Sandjak, Western Fyrom will change as well...

--Serbs should never accept aoutonomy since the whole territory belongs to the serbian people. The day we accept albanian domination they will flood Serbia with their 10 children per family policy and entire Serbia will become impovrished, corrupt and dirty like Albania. Just say NO to anything albanian.--

Another b-92 special. doesn't matter who says it, who writes it. the usual RACIST HATE speech, anti-albanian (primarily), the usual stereotypes, the usual ugliness. where? who? who facilitates it? who facilitates overt hate speech in the middle of the balkans, and that's the usual message pushed here... think about it.

personally, i oppose the horse-trading of lands, peoples. every country is multi-ethnic (whatever the reasons, background) and needs to learn how to accept and protect its minorities. all countries of the balkans need to protect minority rights, respect ALL of its citizens.

former yugoslavia has a very long way to go, but no county more so than serbia. every day a steady stream of nationalist agit-prop from that country, fr their media, their leaders. no example more extreme than so called republika srpska and n mitrovica. it is absolutely UN-acceptable. we, the intrnls, have a responsibility to enforce minority rights, period. Period! you cannot ethnically cleanse every country, every area, without ensuring fascism. it is not the way to protect people, it is the way to insanity.

i am aware that most people here disagree w/ me about this, and if so, so be it.

we have to learn to live together, there is no other choice. period. but that's not in a vacuum -- it cannot succeed in such an atmosphere. normal laws and protections must be enforced. some kind of multi-cultural model needs to be developed. protection for all. safety for all. demagogues must be kept at bay. criminals arrested, crimes adjudicated. esp.ly war crimes. so much needs to change. but this horse trading just doesn't do it.

humanity has such a long way to go.

roberto
frisco

the north to Serbia. more guarantees to the serbs living in the other parts of Kosovo, including the possibility to use their own operators for phones etc. ; these guarantees should be monitored by the internationals under threat of suspension of aids to the government of Kosovo; extraterritorial status of churches and monasteries similar to the diplomatic buildings (this was in the first Athisaari plan, btw). Recognition of Kosovo by Serbia under these conditions. I think it's not bad as project. Presevo etc ? go to hell, i.e. to Kosovo !

I would really appreciate if Albanians from Kosovo who post here learn some geography. Brčko to Croatia! Rascia area (so called Sandzak) is bordering with Boshniak territories in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Vojvodina to Hungary! Guys you don't have to search through Britannica you can just use google. Is that too hard for you?

"the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians, "


Why, then, did Serbia request this insignificant organization to rule on the matter?
(Danilo, 16 March 2011 21:50)


well, it´s not only that an Albanian just again uses a nick-name, a non-albanian nick-name in order to create the impression AS IF anybody cared about the matter...
that made me smile though, but what is really the best about it...

well, this k-albanian friend just doesn´t know the difference between... =)

you made my day, boy! so funny! and then again, some three other Albanian even "recommended" that comment!

that´s just... priceless! =)

Yes. That is the only solution that makes sense and I wouldn't want anything to change "culturally" in the North of Kosovo. It's perfect the way it is!

''I would really appreciate if Albanians from Kosovo who post here learn some geography. Brčko to Croatia! Rascia area (so called Sandzak) is bordering with Boshniak territories in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Vojvodina to Hungary! Guys you don't have to search through Britannica you can just use google. Is that too hard for you?
(Bez_Cenzure, 17 March 2011 00:30) ''

RS stands between muslim-croat federation and sandjak...

Right or wrong, I am still waiting on that proof. I know I am not the only one.
Do you have any?
(Peggy, 17 March 2011 11:59)

Sorry to delay you the proof.
95% of the population in K. speak Albanian.

No autonomy, no special status should be given to northern Kosovo, nothing more or less then the southern majority Serb municipalities enjoy in Kosovo. We have done our part of compromise, we adopted a multi ethnic flag, constitution, Serbian language being official, giving them more guaranteed seats in the parliament then any democratic Government in the world, all these to give our minority more rights then the vast majority yet they make less then 8% over the overall population. We owe you nothing, its the other way around since Belgrade never apologized for their atrocities. I'm against even to these talks, there is absolutely nothing we can gain from it.

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.

I will echo my fellow countryman.

NO SPECIAL STATUS.... Same as Presheva Valley and Medvegj.



Thanks,

(thank you Kostunica) that Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia, period. Deal with reality.
(Dragan, 15 March 2011 14:28)

You guys are violating your own constitution revised during Kostunica's power. If Kosova is integral part of Serbia, from where i am standing, I don't see any Sebian police/military or what have you.

Shuold we then expect Autonomy for Presheva valley?(As a minimum let's not talk about half of what's called Macedonia)

Somebody actually pays these war criminals lead by Wesley Clark to publish this garbage??
They need to be reminded that it is in the Serbian constitution (thank you Kostunica) that Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia, period. Deal with reality.

That's not good advice from the ICG because it wont change our stance but will only show Albanian weakness, desperation and despair when Borko Stefanovic laughs in the face of the Albanian negotiators and at the cameras when he talks to the media about it.

I have mentioned many times in the past, Serbs in northern Mitrovica should have the same rights to the Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja and otherway around.

Wait long enough and the proverbial “nut” starts to crack. Now it an offer of autonomy to Serbs in the North. Considering the current economic crises in the west I’ll predict that about August this year it will be “to divide Kosovo”.

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"

I would propose something very similar that makes more sense: "Recogition in exchange for the north" :-)

--Serbs should never accept aoutonomy since the whole territory belongs to the serbian people. The day we accept albanian domination they will flood Serbia with their 10 children per family policy and entire Serbia will become impovrished, corrupt and dirty like Albania. Just say NO to anything albanian.--

Another b-92 special. doesn't matter who says it, who writes it. the usual RACIST HATE speech, anti-albanian (primarily), the usual stereotypes, the usual ugliness. where? who? who facilitates it? who facilitates overt hate speech in the middle of the balkans, and that's the usual message pushed here... think about it.

personally, i oppose the horse-trading of lands, peoples. every country is multi-ethnic (whatever the reasons, background) and needs to learn how to accept and protect its minorities. all countries of the balkans need to protect minority rights, respect ALL of its citizens.

former yugoslavia has a very long way to go, but no county more so than serbia. every day a steady stream of nationalist agit-prop from that country, fr their media, their leaders. no example more extreme than so called republika srpska and n mitrovica. it is absolutely UN-acceptable. we, the intrnls, have a responsibility to enforce minority rights, period. Period! you cannot ethnically cleanse every country, every area, without ensuring fascism. it is not the way to protect people, it is the way to insanity.

i am aware that most people here disagree w/ me about this, and if so, so be it.

we have to learn to live together, there is no other choice. period. but that's not in a vacuum -- it cannot succeed in such an atmosphere. normal laws and protections must be enforced. some kind of multi-cultural model needs to be developed. protection for all. safety for all. demagogues must be kept at bay. criminals arrested, crimes adjudicated. esp.ly war crimes. so much needs to change. but this horse trading just doesn't do it.

humanity has such a long way to go.

roberto
frisco

''I see Albanians repeatedly mention Vojvodina here.''

Vojvodina has been having a serb majority only after the 1990s...serbs kicked out of Croatia and the so called Rep Krajina were deliberately given lands in vojvodina by serb gov to balance the hungarian presence there...now hungarians are a minority there, i sympathetise with hungarians, they remind me of us, Albanians...yet, unlike hungarians, we won't fail in uniting our nation...

Listen Serb...and i m tired of hearing the same propaganda how we burn churches, yeah we burn churches, mosques, we even burned our own curches and mosques in 1960s, what makes you think we care about serb churches...churches, mosques, synagoges are only buildings anyway, if they get destroyed , new better ones can be built, but, unlike serbs, we don't burn innocent women and and children, you can not turn back to life a living being...also let me tell you sth, churches , mosques, and synagoges which are built over illyrian ruins will be demolished as soon as we have the first opurtunity...don't missunderstand me, i respect religion, as long as it does not represent serbo-greek hegemony, as long as it does not spread hate, and as long as it does not destroy our history...for your info, serb churches were built over the ruins of romanesque churches in most cases, and in other cases over the ruins of pagan temples, OUR pagan temples...yet 90% of actual churches in Kosovo were built during 80s and 90s by milosevic...wait, weren't serbs who burnt croatian churches , bosnian and albanian mosques back then? Also, how you have the moral to talk about us burning your churches, as you were the ones to burn to ground the seat of League of Prizren in 1999 along with 200 000 albanian houses and residences...

Mike, apparently you mistakenly read a different report.
It says nothing about the north being fully integrated with Serbia. It says they affiliate with Serbia and accepts the money from Serbia that is supplied simply to keep the Pristina authorities out, but it is no more under Serbian control than that of Pristina.
It also says--"The North suffers from a near-total absence of productive employment and depends on state subsidies for its survival; rule of law is weak."
The last thing Serbia would want is to have the north join back into the ranks of Serbia because then they would have to control it and that would be almost impossible, and would pit Serbs against Serbs. But having them to become autonomous inside of Kosovo would be ideal for Serbia because then they would be able to always have a finger to poke into the sides of Pristina and create a little trouble anytime it suits them.

and why would this group think autonomy can work in northern kosovo as part of kosovo but not autonomy for kosovo as part of serbia ? Pure rubbish!!!

This has proven what I've said numerous times. Yes, the K.Albs would have much of a better shot of their retarded child project "kosova" succeeding if Serbia just "took" (we all know they already have it) the north in exchange for recognition.

What Serbia needs to do is to refuse that, on the grounds that all of Kosovo belongs to Serbia. North Kosovo will be the death of this retarded child project since it will show the weakness of the occupiers in Pristina unable to govern what they view as their own country.

It's obvious here. The battle of Kosovo is not Serbs against Albanians, its Serbs against the Empire. When the empire pulls out since the empire is obviously not sustainable then we will have our country back.

Until then, wait paitently.

28. Jun, Nema Predaje

How many mosques in Presevo have been burned?
(MikeC, 15 March 2011 20:07)

I do not know how many are burned in Presevo but I know that they are burned all of them in Kosova from "Great" Serbian Army. And did not you burned the other one in Beograd too?

More nwo propaganda against orthodox serbs! Go home yankee occupiers!

your not majority in the preshovo valley.

Preševo (with Albanian majority), Bujanovac (with Serbian majority) and Medveđa (with Serb majority). bye bye
(tom, 15 March 2011 16:32)

Perhaps we are not majority in P. Valley but it doesn't matter.
There are roughly 60K Serbs in K-North. I'm sure we can find 60K Albanians or more in P. Valley; Will carve it up house to house.

I think autonomy for the north is a good idea regardless of recognition.

I have a fair deal.

Serbia gets a 50g bag of Smoki and Kosovars continue to have and hold on to Kosova.

I think this would be a positive step in the right direction:)

Here's one of those rare issues on which Serbs and Albanians can agree: the ICG are a bunch of self-interested clowns with neither the intellectual nor the moral authority to pronounce on anything.

Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31) your not majority in the preshovo valley.

Preševo (with Albanian majority), Bujanovac (with Serbian majority) and Medveđa (with Serb majority). bye bye

If you can't, kindly keep quiet or you will be sent to the naughty corner.
(Peggy, 16 March 2011 12:05)


You're wrong "mama" Peggy!

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31)

I would sign on the dotted line for the above deal. And then tell everyone to move the f(expletive)k on with their lives.

Recognition for something Serbia has said it will never do in exchange for a piece of territory they already control?

I read this ICG report yesterday. The gist of it states that as of now Pristina has nothing tangible to offer the K-Serbs in the north that they don't already enjoy far more of under Belgrade. Additionally, the report says the north is fully integrated within Belgrade's system, and nearly everyone there outright rejects any attempt by Pristina to "integrate" it. EULEX is also doing little to nothing to promote this. Offering autonomy does nothing. Offering it in exchange for Belgrade's recognition is laughable. Most Albanian elites in Pristina want no special status for the north anyway, making whatever they say and whatever they demand irrelevant.

Only Albanians can bargain with someone else's property.
I steal it and then I bargain with it with the real owner.
Monty Python stuff.
(Peggy, 15 March 2011 21:31)

Not if you stole it first, it was ours all along.
He He He ...beat that!

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31)
====================

Only Albanians can bargain with someone else's property.
I steal it and then I bargain with it with the real owner.
Monty Python stuff.

Not a snowballs chance in hell!
All of Kosovo is Serbian,we will not give up one square metre !
Period!

Mike, no one gives a serbian kebab about northen mitrovica , if you ask me you can have it, but Presevo valley goes with us...no double standarts,please, if you want ethnical borders, let's have them all the way ...then sandjak goes to bosnia, and RS goes to serbia(this serbian-bosnian border will be the funniest looking map ever considering that brcko goes to croatia, and sandjak has no border with the muslim federation what so ever)...vojvodina eventually is divided among serbia, hungary and croatia...just like fyrom among albania and BG...and western outlands go to bulgaria as well, along with banat to romania...this way every one will be happy...forgot about those separatists of montenegro, serbia can have most of it apart ulqin and malsia, ...

epiroti,

Don't forget your usernamesake then goes to Greece. Fair is fair, right? ;)

"Serbs in northern Mitrovica should have the same rights to the Albanians living in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja and otherway around."

EA

First of all Presevo is not on the agenda. If you want independence for every territory there is an albanian the whole world would be Albania. Second, the albanians in Presevo have far greater rights then serbs in Kosovo. How many mosques in Presevo have been burned? Do albanians need KFOR protection to go to the market, cemetary, school, work etc? Are albanians attacked on a daily basis by serbs? Let's face it. K-albs are loosing ground. More and more people across the world are realizing what misstake they have made recognizing this banana republic of mafiosos.

Serbs should never accept aoutonomy since the whole territory belongs to the serbian people. The day we accept albanian domination they will flood Serbia with their 10 children per family policy and entire Serbia will become impovrished, corrupt and dirty like Albania. Just say NO to anything albanian.

I know this idea is not going to be popular with many Serbs (I do not care what Albanians think even if they agree with me). First of all let I state that as far as I am concerned no Serb should ever live again under Muslim rule, meaning living in an area where Muslims are a majority. Second of all Albanians are welcome in Serbia if they behave and I do not care if they have their own schools, language and even autonomy. Third of all I do not think that Serbia should give in to demands from war criminals, drug thugs, and international pressure from countries that preach one thing but then violate a countries territorial integrity. That said I believe that a practical compromise about Kosovo is possible without losing face or facing humiliation. From a Serb perspective this must mean that we know for sure that our ancestors will not turn inside their graves and that all the lives lost during the last century where not in vain. The main barrier to a lasting peace and consequently more prosperity is the foreign influence on The Balkan that is mainly aimed to keep ethnic groups divided and creating conditions that promote constant tension and potential future conflict. The problem is that Kosovo Albanians have become greedy and very unrealistic, but that is their problem and so they have to accept the consequences of that. They do not realize that eventually their current masters will have more important interests and their resources for pet projects are drying up quickly. Personally I think that 2 million Albanians inside Serbia is a big obstacle for a better future. Some land swaps and cantonization of Kosovo is the only viable solution. Serbs want to control Kosovo lands but not the Albanians who live their. The Serb cantons will include all historical and Orthodox religious sites, including the presence of Serb police and security forces. The areas where the Albanians are the majority can as far as I am concerned turn into a mafia/drug/extreme Islam paradise/prison/ghetto/whatever. We all know that without NATO in Kosovo the KLA thugs would be taken care of or in Albania (they know the route well for they used it twice). I am sure Albanians would view this as a victory, a sign of weakness from Serbia and unfortunately a cart blanche to restart trouble in other countries to do some more land grabs. An independent Kosovo is and will be a cursed place for Albanians and a disaster for every non-Albanian. We cannot let down or brothers and sisters inside KiM, but we also have to acknowledge that we cannot let them live like the past 12 years because of political reasons. We will be patient and one day all of Kosovo will be under Serbian rule again, make no mistake about that. Until that time we have to develop Serbia to a regional powerhouse so that when that day will be here that Kosovo will be reintegrated in no time and will become part of a dynamic and prosperous economy. That is my dream and vision.

"the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians, "


Why, then, did Serbia request this insignificant organization to rule on the matter?

The west is cracking. Keep the pressure on and the eu and us will go their separate ways. kosovo will never get into the eu by itself and cannot annex to a "greater albania" which won't get anywhere near the eu for a very long time anyway. The eu train is leaving with Serbia on board and you are being left at the station with your stillborn pseudo-state.

Recognition for something Serbia has said it will never do in exchange for a piece of territory they already control?
(Mike, 15 March 2011 16:16)
--
I've been trying to figure this one out. Looks like these people have visited Thaci and got high on his supply.

What exactly is Serbia gaining by recognising "Kosova" and giving away territory we actually control? Perhaps this is something K-Albanians will understand or is preparing them to eventually accept the North is gone.

John, absolutely right. I think the Kalbs still believe that 100000 have disappeared (Albright). They still believe all the HATO crap when any intelligent, objective person knows 99pct to be false propaganda. When will they wake up from their self inflicted victimhood.

# Only Albanians can bargain with someone else's property.
I steal it and then I bargain with it with the real owner.
Monty Python stuff.
(Peggy, 15 March 2011 21:31)

Not if you stole it first, it was ours all along.
He He He ...beat that!
(miri, 16 March 2011 00:58)
=======================
He He He ...beat that!???? What the?

What do you think we are? Children?
Now behave.
First prove to us that it was yours first and then we can talk about who stole what from whom.
C'mon, let's see something left behind from Albanians before Serbs settled to suggest that it was Albanian.

If you can't, kindly keep quiet or you will be sent to the naughty corner.

"If Kosova is integral part of Serbia, from where i am standing, I don't see any Sebian police/military or what have you."
(Agim Kelmendi, 15 March 2011 17:13)

Maybe that's not such a good example, Agim. According to that, Kosovo would be an integral part of the EU and UN, because there's EULEX and KFOR, and there's no such thing as Kosovo police/military, only KPS/KSF

--Serbs should never accept aoutonomy since the whole territory belongs to the serbian people. The day we accept albanian domination they will flood Serbia with their 10 children per family policy and entire Serbia will become impovrished, corrupt and dirty like Albania. Just say NO to anything albanian.--

Another b-92 special. doesn't matter who says it, who writes it.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 16 March 2011 03:28)

It does matter - because no one said it only you. You are the one who made the "B92 special". But I appreciate your grammar is significantly better than usual. Are you already in Pristina and got a pure grade organic hashish from Organic Hashim?

BTW: no SF or "The City" is not "Frisco". Frisco is in Texas. Using it for SF is an insult and is objected by most in the Bay Area.

http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/Pages/Default.aspx

The "North" Kosova problem was created by the French in order to block Kosova independence,it has failed. But it has succeeded in creating a problem that will bring instability and war for a very long time.

''I would propose something very similar that makes more sense: "Recogition in exchange for the north" :-)
(Top, 15 March 2011 13:25) ''

I wonder what is the difference, autonomy is the last step to indipendence, but let you remind one thing, if 1974 borders change, then borders in Bosnia, Vojvodina, Southern Serbia, Sandjak, Western Fyrom will change as well...

No autonomy, no special status should be given to northern Kosovo, nothing more or less then the southern majority Serb municipalities enjoy in Kosovo. We have done our part of compromise, we adopted a multi ethnic flag, constitution, Serbian language being official, giving them more guaranteed seats in the parliament then any democratic Government in the world, all these to give our minority more rights then the vast majority yet they make less then 8% over the overall population. We owe you nothing, its the other way around since Belgrade never apologized for their atrocities. I'm against even to these talks, there is absolutely nothing we can gain from it.
(Pejoni, 15 March 2011 14:18)

That illusion that kosovo is multi ethnic with rights for all minorities is complete and utter Bull*obsenity* used for good media. In reality, Serbs live in Nazi-Like ghettos protected only by international treaties. You go on about Serbian atrocities, If you looked past the american propoganda, you would realise that they were very very few in number, and you would see the appaling atrocities commited by the Albanian side. If you really want to see how well Multi Ethnic kosovo is working; then go to pristina, and start speaking in Serbian, I reckon you'll survive 15 seconds

I see Albanians repeatedly mention Vojvodina here. Dear Albanians from Kosovo in Vojvodina Serbs comprise 70% percent of total population. Vojvodina is truly multiethnic area unlike Kosovo which never used to be and especially it's not today. Kosovo is distanced from any kind of multicultural life within million of light years. Problems in Vojvodina doesn't exist at all. I know you would like to see them but I'll dissapoint you by telling to you that tensions among 26 ethnic communities in Vojvodina exists in your heads. Those wishes are not real at all. Get real as soon as possible!

As for the topic Serbs already have special status considering the fact that Priština does not have any kind of jurisdiction in northern part of Kosovo and Metohija. By the way it's not up to Pristina to make any decisions concerning northern part of Kosovo and Metohija.

"Recognition in exchange for autonomy for north"... and autonomy for Presevo Valley.
(miri, 15 March 2011 14:31)
--
Again, I don't understand the logic here. Serbia controls the north while the residents there participate in Serbian elections and Serbian companies operate without a problem. We don't need autonomy when it is already integrated into Serbian structures.

While in Presevo, ethnic Albanians are also fully integrated into Serbian structures and participate in Serbian elections.

I mean, what are you guys expecting? Serbia to just give away control of two areas it already controls for nothing? Keep dreaming my friends because if that logic makes sense to you, I have a great offer for you. I'll take your car and in exchange for that I'll take your house.

"I mean, what are you guys expecting? Serbia to just give away control of two areas it already controls for nothing? "


That's like saying "You're saying a drowning man should give up a bag of bricks for nothing???"

I think the article is about the ICG saying autonomy in exchange for recognition would be the logical solution. It did not say the "Albanians" were offering anything. If you read into it that, then you must have read into it that the Serbs were offering recognition, right?
(pss, 17 March 2011 10:23)

Mmh, I'm afraid you are right; I was a bit ahead of things. I'm sure though some kind of offer (and not very far from what is suggested here) will be the next best thing; Albanians are running out of time while Serbs have plenty.

''I would really appreciate if Albanians from Kosovo who post here learn some geography. Brčko to Croatia! Rascia area (so called Sandzak) is bordering with Boshniak territories in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Vojvodina to Hungary! Guys you don't have to search through Britannica you can just use google. Is that too hard for you?
(Bez_Cenzure, 17 March 2011 00:30) ''

RS stands between muslim-croat federation and sandjak...

Right or wrong, I am still waiting on that proof. I know I am not the only one.
Do you have any?
(Peggy, 17 March 2011 11:59)

Sorry to delay you the proof.
95% of the population in K. speak Albanian.

It seems like a good offer to me. If a Serbian proposal for partition comes up (as the Serb negotiators and some ministers in Serbia say it will) this could be a good counter-offer. Kosovo government could give away some sovereignity over the north of Kosovo to get recognition from Serbia. Solutions where "one part gets everything and the other nothing" are not good after all. So in exchange for recognition Serbia would get de jure autonomy for the north. Even "more than autonomy, less than independence" for the north would be acceptable I think. Whatever that means.

If one looks at all this from a certain distance, not through Serbian or Albanian eyes, the absurdity of this situation is hilarious.

the north to Serbia. more guarantees to the serbs living in the other parts of Kosovo, including the possibility to use their own operators for phones etc. ; these guarantees should be monitored by the internationals under threat of suspension of aids to the government of Kosovo; extraterritorial status of churches and monasteries similar to the diplomatic buildings (this was in the first Athisaari plan, btw). Recognition of Kosovo by Serbia under these conditions. I think it's not bad as project. Presevo etc ? go to hell, i.e. to Kosovo !

I wonder what is the difference, autonomy is the last step to indipendence, but let you remind one thing, if 1974 borders change, then borders in Bosnia, Vojvodina, Southern Serbia, Sandjak, Western Fyrom will change as well...
(epiroti, 16 March 2011 03:03)

Quite a lot of Albanians reject the idiotic nationalism - but B92 English language forum became an outlet where the minority can talk nonsense loudly.

For start: the many potential voters in Kosovo did not find any political party being appealing. What was the real voter turnover - can anyone elaborate?

"Autonomy for Northen Kosovo "What a ridiculous statement by ICG.Northen Kosovo is populated by Serbian people,therefore,it does not need autonomy, because its in Serbia.Kosovo Albanians needs autonomy and got it.There is not a chance that Kosovo would ever become sovereign state.Negotiations which are taking place now between Serbia and Kosovo are technical in nature, dealing with law in order issues, economy and preservation and protection of Serbian's cultural shrines.No amount of loose talk and wishful thinking can change reality. ICG and others who are determined to create independent Kosovo, by trying to coerce Serbia in accepting their new design for Republic of Serbia will fail.ICG and
others do not have authority or capacity to re-engineer the borders of Serbia.
Only legal document which authorize international presence in Kosovo is UNSC resolution 1244.Kosovo Albanians have difficulties managing their affairs on autonomous level,let alone being viable, responsible, independent,sovereign state.

It also says--"The North suffers from a near-total absence of productive employment and depends on state subsidies for its survival; rule of law is weak."
(a New Day, 15 March 2011 22:17)
Hmm, this sounds to me more like a general problem of Kosovo, and to less extend, Serbia. I conclude: Further integration of the north into Serbia would surely improve the situation.

So in exchange for recognition Serbia would get de jure autonomy for the north. Even "more than autonomy, less than independence" for the north would be acceptable I think. Whatever that means.

Is this not precisely what was on the table for the K Albs for such a long time but was rejected out of hand so many times? It seems monumentally ironic that anyone should now suggest this as a comprimise offer to the Serbs. It appears to me that the startinf position in these negotiations is "Kosovo is Serbia" Any solutions/comprimises need to be negotiated from that position. To assume that it is a given that Kosovo is independant seems somewhat short sighted and overly optimistic on the part of the K Albs. If this was the case, explain why such an overwhelming majority of countries have, 3 years after the "UDI" still not recognised? It is time to start thinking about the humanitarian effect on the people actually having to live in this mess. I feel maybe it is also time to tell the likes of the US to stop intefering to safeguard their military installations and to allow the people of the region to make their own decisions. After all, the US does not have a particularly good track record with its interventionist policies now does it....Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea...the list goes on.

well, somehow amusing that the ICG is giving advises to the K-albanians... as if that was something new.

as far as I am concerned, there is nothing to give them as a present at all.

it´s serbian territory, all of KiM, don´t ever forget that, and you can repeat it as much as you wish that it was yours before and the Serbs came from "Sirbiria" and all the other nonsense you´re constantly bringing up....

there is no albanian kosovaah, fullstop.

the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians,
but the serb state does not have to bargain with own territory.

albanian dreams, nothing more.

@Iliri

Educate yourself please! Serbs were majority in Vojvodina in 1991. too. Then they comprised 57% of total population. Population has grown thanks to ethnic cleansing over Serbs conveyed by Croatia, the part of B&H nowdays known as federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and of course by Albanian terrorists in Kosovo. You cannot compare Kosovo and Vojvodina not even in your dreams.

It seems Albanians start to realize that Kosovo will remain a blackhole without the recognition of Serbia, Russia, China etc. What foreign investment do they expect in the current situation? Apart from Libya and Afghanistan, Kosovo would be the last place where I'd like to start a business at the moment and the situation doesn't really get any better. Now Albanians offer authonomy for the north, I would say; let's wait a bit and see what there is more on offer...
(JS, 17 March 2011 02:18)
I think the article is about the ICG saying autonomy in exchange for recognition would be the logical solution. It did not say the "Albanians" were offering anything. If you read into it that, then you must have read into it that the Serbs were offering recognition, right?

A New Day, we're reading the same article but apparently drawing different conclusions. Northern Kosovo is, to be sure, considerably "autonomous" as it is now, what with an operating local goverment. But this government marches in step with Belgrade and having been to the north, I quickly noticed it working, rather smoothly, within the political, economic, and legal parameters of the larger Serbian state, with most if not all of the locals associating the area as Serbia. So I have to conclude that the north is significantly integrated with Belgrade. At the very least to the degree that any offers from Pristina fall on deaf ears.

Having said that though, I don't foresee Belgrade being able to eliminate this de facto "autonomy". So I basically agree with you that exerting direct authority over an area that has operated under self-determination since 1999 would be counterproductive. But the question remains as to whether Belgrade will retain formal control over the north, or agree to let it operate within its present autonomous position. One thing is likely, Pristina will not get any closer to controlling it after these talks. It may very well remain part of "Kosovo" but I'm pretty sure those close links with Belgrade will remain. If the north remains within Kosovo, which I predict it will, that is, as you say, a finger in Pristina's eye, especially as Mitrovica serves as the regional Serbian center for all K-Serbs north and south of the Ibar (which it pretty much is now), while simultaneously serving as the tranitiory point between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia.

Yes. That is the only solution that makes sense and I wouldn't want anything to change "culturally" in the North of Kosovo. It's perfect the way it is!

"the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians, "


Why, then, did Serbia request this insignificant organization to rule on the matter?
(Danilo, 16 March 2011 21:50)


well, it´s not only that an Albanian just again uses a nick-name, a non-albanian nick-name in order to create the impression AS IF anybody cared about the matter...
that made me smile though, but what is really the best about it...

well, this k-albanian friend just doesn´t know the difference between... =)

you made my day, boy! so funny! and then again, some three other Albanian even "recommended" that comment!

that´s just... priceless! =)

Sorry to delay you the proof.
95% of the population in K. speak Albanian.
(miri, 17 March 2011 20:09)
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That's not proof. You can say the same thing about California or even some parts of London or Paris.
Extremely high birth rate is no proof of being tied to the land a thousand years ago.

Serbs have proof of ownership and making their mark on that land. Again, where is your proof?

I would really appreciate if Albanians from Kosovo who post here learn some geography. Brčko to Croatia! Rascia area (so called Sandzak) is bordering with Boshniak territories in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Vojvodina to Hungary! Guys you don't have to search through Britannica you can just use google. Is that too hard for you?

But we were told that Kosovo was a muli-ethnic, post-nationalisic region. It was not about the Albanians. Nope, it was about Kosovars. Why should Kosovars in the North be different from Kosovars in the South?

Well, maybe Kosovo is not so multi-ethnic and post-nationalistic...

It seems Albanians start to realize that Kosovo will remain a blackhole without the recognition of Serbia, Russia, China etc. What foreign investment do they expect in the current situation? Apart from Libya and Afghanistan, Kosovo would be the last place where I'd like to start a business at the moment and the situation doesn't really get any better. Now Albanians offer authonomy for the north, I would say; let's wait a bit and see what there is more on offer...

"the ICG is an american think-tank without any real significance, and what they advise may be interesting for the K-albanians, "


Why, then, did Serbia request this insignificant organization to rule on the matter?
(Danilo, 16 March 2011 21:50)"

Since when did Serbia ask the ICG to rule about anything??????? In your dreams obviously .... what a nightmare!

You're wrong "mama" Peggy!
(miri, 16 March 2011 14:32)
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Right or wrong, I am still waiting on that proof. I know I am not the only one.
Do you have any?

Perhaps we are not majority in P. Valley but it doesn't matter.
There are roughly 60K Serbs in K-North. I'm sure we can find 60K Albanians or more in P. Valley; Will carve it up house to house.
(miri, 15 March 2011 19:38)

I remember, not so long ago having a rather strange conversation with my Albanian neighbour. he said, "Janez, I want autonomy for my apartment and all the occupants in it. I said, "Agim are you crazy? what did your wife say?" He said, "I know, she said yes I am crazy". So on that we went down to local bar for a Jelen.