Nobel boycott "no easy decision", says FM

jeremic: "does not leave the best taste in the mouth". Yes of course,probably it is the taste of the dog's meat. That will always happen when you "eat" with Chinese.

Well now Serbia has become a puppy of both Russia and China. Serbia has two masters now and are ready to stamp on human rights for it's masters. Good job Serbia in choosing side. I bet you will be very strong in fighting against US,UK,France,Germany;japan and many more with the help of Russia,China,Cuba,Kazaksthan etc.

Good for EU to see that Serbia is not a democratic country and have no values for human rights. Just as it showed in the 90's.


Serbia is firm on it's stand because China told them we'll recognize Kosovo is you go to the nobel price cermony. And what does the little puppy ? Good to see that Serbia is located in Asia :)

of course it was easy. its the very foundation of serb political behavior.

Poor Serbia, your government speaks about democracy, human rights and European values, and at the same time your government makes big friendship with Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and some other countries, who don't know anything about any standards.....
This shows the real face of your government. If your government prefer the standards of Sudan, Iraq and Afhanistan it should stop to cry for EU support and EU money.

China is a great country with different customs sometimes weird (for me personally) and has its own view on human rights and it is OK when they call for boycott for this NOBEL price. But, Serbia shall be on the same line with EU principles especially on human rights (remember Counsel of Europe)...so, when I say "eat" I mean only "be in the same line with China" which is impossible in this case because of the fact that often China is criticized from EU for the violation of human rights.

Good luck with your 'Brotherhood and Unity' with your Chinese brothers!

Is this a surprise to anyone? Serbia has always been doing bizarre things that are not in their best interest like raping, murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people. They provide safe sanctuary for war criminals and common criminals like Miladin Kovacevic the college basketball player. They paraded American soldiers on tv when they captured them in violation of the Geneva convention. They have criminal gangs called "Pink Panthers" robbing every country in the world. They supply countries with arms that are not friendly to the west. The list goes on and on. So, with that said, does Serbia snubbing the Nobel Prize surprise you? Get real.

Why was it the moral and objective thing to do, highduke?

Bardhyl: "Yes of course,probably it is the taste of the dog's meat. That will always happen when you "eat" with Chinese."

No matter how wrong you believe the decision to be to boycott the Nobel Peace Prize (which has sadly become a joke over recent years anyway, and yet another mutual back-slapping exercise for the 'masters'), your statement about the Chinese is offensive and racist.

That hardly puts you on high moral ground to criticise anyone else.

China and Russia own Serbia. They make them do stupid things like this, meanwhile Serbia is still out of the EU.

You can say what you want about global political plays. but in the end, the blgd regime shows its true colors, its utter contempof human rights which it anyway regards as some kind of foreign invention or import.

the blgd regime keeps the support of the communist party (china's) and loses any shred of ethical integrity. as if it ever had any.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

"Serbia is firm on it's stand because China told them we'll recognize Kosovo is you go to the nobel price cermony. And what does the little puppy ? Good to see that Serbia is located in Asia :)
(Demi, 9 December 2010 11:35)"

Oh, why don't you just admit that you are secretly sore because Serbia just assured herself of an additional veto at the UNSC to any potential "Kosova" attempt at UN membership!

"Well now Serbia has become a puppy of both Russia and China. Serbia has two masters now and are ready to stamp on human rights for it's masters. Good job Serbia in choosing side. I bet you will be very strong in fighting against US,UK,France,Germany;japan and many more with the help of Russia,China,Cuba,Kazaksthan etc.

Good for EU to see that Serbia is not a democratic country and have no values for human rights. Just as it showed in the 90's.

Serbia is firm on it's stand because China told them we'll recognize Kosovo is you go to the nobel price cermony. And what does the little puppy ? Good to see that Serbia is located in Asia :)
Demi

Thank you for summarizing it so well.
At least the EU will see again what type of country is applying for membership.

It is good China is not Serbias neighbour they would of gobbled you up militarily. Serbians would of protested then the benevolent Chinese rule they would ruthlessly of shot ,exiled ,imprisonment a lot of Serbian dissidents to hard labour until they died of coarse of "natural" causes. Then they would of moved millions of good Chinese party members to Serbia were they would hold key positions and be a majority. Then they would have a "democratic" all peoples referendum if Serbia wants to remain in China. Gee this sounds all so familiar and so close to home it is good China is not Serbia neighbour. Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić government as usual standing on good moral principals and protecting them Um-hum and so shamelessly for sure. Bend over China some one is puckering their lips for you.

Serbs make loyal friends. Even at our cost. End of.

Serbia's strategic priority remains "European future", he said, and added it would be "frightening" if it were to be halted over such a decision made by a "small country in a difficult situation".

Oh so touching. " A small country in a difficult situation". Please feel sorry for this little country that likes to act like a big country. It is frightening Mr.Jeremic because you know that someone keep scores of "these difficult situations" you serbs put yourselves over and over again. But please keep bitting the hand that is feeding you.

This is a tough !! what a move by the mighty Boris-Vuk duo... Were they aspire at EU candidancy sooner ? YES must they alligne Foreign police to EU ? YES o no sorry niet !! China is for the moment more important.. very interesting development ..maybe there is something else behind this "bold move"...maybe someone in Belgrade has understood that the doors in Brussels are due for a long period to remain .. closed ! So viva China and long life to the Comunist People Party !! HURRA !!

“Well, you are only saying this now. Before you just said that you were “talking about UN entry”. And you also said that “I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely”. And we do agree with this. But than what? What are the implications ? Or we agree that there is no implication ? So no need to discuss any longer ? “

I was talking about UN entry, but I was talking about Kosovo’s UN entry, NOT the Vatican’s UN entry which was and still is irrelevant. If you still cannot see this clear distinction about 2 entirely different entitites, then I think even your favourite Merrian-Webster won't be able to help you!




“Well you give me sources ***ABOUT*** China, which do not show that lenders are lending to China but to the US only. There is the comparison. If China was as well off as the US, lenders would not have any problem to lend to China. Why is it so difficult to understand it ?! In any case, my thanks still remain. You see, when you provide facts that are convincing, I don’t hesitate to thank you.
(icj1, 23 December 2010 02:27)”

I wrote 3 sources on my 9 Dec post, which you QUOTED and then replied “Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China” on 11 Dec. In other words you were referring only to those 3 sources (and not others that I may have provided in other threads on B92) as proof. These 3 sources however did not compare the relative positions of the US and China. Your statement that these 3 sources did such a relative comparison and then concluded that “the US is much better off than China” is therefore patently false.

Wow, I love the comments coming in. So now, according to some people, if you don't even attend a western organised political award ceremony then that in itself is a violation of human rights and peace?

Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with both Russia and China. That is a healthy relationship my friends and one that protects our sovereignty. Bowing before your masters is not and Wikileaks has exposed that clearly. I hope you guys read the ones about FYROM today.

Wow Joe, you've certainly done your homework on that one.
Please refer to the following to links:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml
and
http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml
to complete your homework.

Let me summarize:
in USA:
Personal Average Income:
2005 Disposable = 19,776
in China
Personal Average Income :
2005 Disposable = 3,029 (in USD)
In USA:
Consumption Expenditure :
2005 Total = 15,816
In China:
Consumption Expenditure :
2005 Total = 2,292 (in USD)

...do some magical maths now...

in USA: 1.25 ratio of earned-spent
in China: 1.32 ratio of earned-spent

... seems the magic has shown that it's not really that different... Sure USA has "better quality" crap than China, but crap is still crap, not matter how nice it is.

NOTE: the China figures considered reflect rural and urban together. Feel free to analyze in greater depth.

"NOTE: the China figures considered reflect rural and urban together. Feel free to analyze in greater depth.
Smith

Thanks for the data. I don't know about you but I still want to live in the US and not in China.
You know there is something like "quality of life". I can compare it on a yearly basis by visiting Hungary and Austria. I have no intention and time to do the same with China.

Sure you can spin this Vuk, but it's only you that will get dizzy.

As an Albanian, this is actually quite a good move. Thank you Tadic and Vuk. Hopefully more of this stuff in the future.

"Are you real? Beside few million very rich try to look up how the masses get by in China. Many of them on 1 or 2 dollars per day. If you call that prosperity I guess you are not making much more yourself.
(Joe, 9 December 2010 16:02) "

http://www.federalbudget.com/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/199393

China...."one of the most prosperous countries in the world."
Zoran

Are you real? Beside few million very rich try to look up how the masses get by in China. Many of them on 1 or 2 dollars per day. If you call that prosperity I guess you are not making much more yourself.

@ Peggy!
Albanians suport USA because USA protected us.Not only us but Serbs also,and all Western Europe from Hitler.
But USA was too quick,they should have let hitler finish it's bussines with you Serbs,so we would not have these problems with you today.
Don't hate Americans,they saved you!

I dont buy it, he's saying it wasn't easy only for the benefit of the Western media. Supporting China was the moral & objective thing to do regardless of China's anti-UDI stance but their stance cemented the deal reciprocity

Robert- we can start talking about human rights when Croatia allows the return of refugees, and Kosovo allows return of Serb refugees. Those are the true enemies of human rights. Why don't you stand up for that. Your usual claptrap is becoming unbearable.

I see the Albanians here are taking another opportunity to trash Serbia. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old song? As for snubbing this awards ceremony, this is a smart move on Belgrade's part. Why not play all sides? You can't have too many friends. As for the Nobel Prize, with the political farce that it has become, its very hypocritical existence should leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

Don't forget Mr. Ahtisaari was honored by this institution. That name still sends chills through the spine of Jeremic and other nationalists in Serbia.

Perhaps this had something to do with this as well?

Are you real? Beside few million very rich try to look up how the masses get by in China. Many of them on 1 or 2 dollars per day.
(Joe, 9 December 2010 16:02)
--
Joe, I said China is prosperous as a country, not that every citizen is rich. If someone can live on 1 or 2 dollars a day in China, and I suspect they can then that is great. Every country has it rich and poor.

Anyway, China ranks second in the world regarding GDP. It has the world's largest foreign reserves, over $3 trillion and has one of the largest economic growth rates in the world, over 10%. If that is not a country prospering then I don't know what is.

"Oh so touching. " A small country in a difficult situation". Please feel sorry for this little country that likes to act like a big country. It is frightening Mr.Jeremic because you know that someone keep scores of "these difficult situations" you serbs put yourselves over and over again. But please keep bitting the hand that is feeding you.
Mark

Well said. I liked the "keeping scores" part.

"The decision not to attend perhaps does not leave the best taste in the mouth, but we had to take into account our relations with key political factors in the world," said the minister.
--
I understand Mr Jeremic, that taste in your mouth comes from the rotten EU carrots you keep eating. Serbia made the right decision not to attend a politically motivated award ceremony. It has nothing to do with peace as China is already at peace and one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

I've heard a great deal about democracy and human rights in this thread, but I'm still not too sure what you're all really talking about. Sure, I understand that most of what is written here with respect to Western human right's example and China's lack is regurgitated from western mass media.
I'd like to understand the examples of the great level of human rights found in the model of the west: USA. Let us consider the right of a person to get well when ill. A nation so rich, so powerful has made it their mission to simply deny all of their citizens fair affordable medical care unless they meet the criteria for their basic government medical insurance plans. Explain the rights that their human citizens have when their options are sell everything they own, go into great debt in order to heal themselves.
What democracy and human rights and constitutional rights do American's have now? If you're of the opinion that human rights is simply something in the political forum and not day to day, then ask why it is that 1000 engineers, scientists and architects are denied, ridiculed and defamed for suggesting and supporting the evidence of the events of 9/11 -- that according to all laws of physics these 3 buildings could not have been downed as they were, that according to the analysis of the debris explosive markers were found at the site. Explosives that are not, nor were reported to have been on the planes. Here we have 1000 of some of the country's (and world's) prominent scientific figures, yet they are not listened to, and we listen to official rhetoric and mass media driven without substance.
Consider the left, right and mass media are out for Assange's scalp. They are calling out for his death. Nothing would make some of these glorious defenders of free speech, democracy and human rights happier than to see Assange murdered, but simple dead will be sufficient. They are asking for his extradition to the USA as well. The man did nothing but relay information -- the primary role of a journalist -- that was forwarded along to him. He didn't steal it, nor did he break into the US system.
Let us discuss democracy when a US president gets elected under questionable circumstances. If this happens elsewhere western nations all stand together and say "we might not be able to accept the results of the polls" (consider Haiti's recent election runoff and western opinions). Consider USA's unilateral actions against IRAQ. These actions were done without UN approval, as there wasn't sufficient evidence at the time, nor to ever surface that Iraq possessed WMDs.
These glorious considerations of the capital of the west, America, certainly demonstrate their own tenuous grasp of democracy, human rights, freedom of speech and their own constitution.
In no way can one suggest that USA is purely a bad guy and China is good, but one can easily suggest and see that both China and USA have something missing.
Many of us can remember the Tienanmen Square incident (a politically motivated case), but can we all remember the Kent State incident (another politically motivated case)?
We remember the Dali Lama's fights for freedom of religion, and subsequent fights for independence, but have we forgotten Clinton's denial of those freedoms to the Branch Davidians in Waco? Yes they had guns (but who in Texas doesn't -- we have a very high gun to person ratio), but were they causing harm to others? They were just practicing their own freedoms (that they thought they had) of religion. Who was the US government to tell them what constitutes are religion (tax purposes not withstanding)? Where were the human rights watch dogs there?
We're not so different really.
Let us consider the numerous projects and democratic injections done by the US. Central and South America are a mess because of the Monroe Doctrine. America considered these countries to be in their backyard, and their influence would be the only one. Their influence has led to many puppet regimes, many coups to over throw democratically elect governments (remember that GWB's assent to power came under some very questionable circumstances but we were told that it was "all good"). Their influence has led to the formation of "banana republics". They've transformed some tiny nations into factories designed to feed Americans, thus removing the nation in question's ability to sustain itself.
And let us pray tell ask and wonder how many innocent civilians have died at the hands of America's democracy around the world. Consider the recent adventures of America's military and spreading of democracy Iraq , Afghanistan and Pakistan. How many civilians died while America spreads their version of freedom? Now, how many have died because of China's aggressive attacks?
When we speak of things such as democracy, freedom, rights etc we need to remove ourselves from the television, newspaper or given media outlet, we need to look critically for ourselves at what is known. Look at what happened, why and how did it turn out. See for yourself and ask why the hypocrisy? Then you'll notice that though we've been told day after day in the west that we're the best at everything perhaps were not all that much better or worse than the next guy in many of these cases.
It would seem that indeed a lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth. However, let us remember this one thing: "If you lie to others you're hiding the truth, but when you lie to yourself you've forgotten where you hid the truth".

# @ Peggy!
Albanians suport USA because USA protected us.Not only us but Serbs also,and all Western Europe from Hitler.
But USA was too quick,they should have let hitler finish it's bussines with you Serbs,so we would not have these problems with you today.
Don't hate Americans,they saved you!
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)

delon -- i find yr posting to be racist and offensive, and furthermore i don't believe it should have been published (as if they ever listen to me!)

just because we get a steady diet of anti-albanian speech (never challenged) is no reason to lower to that level.

ciao!

robert-0/frisco

# roberto
frisco

ps I, for one, am thoroughly enjoying wikileaks...
(roberto, 9 December 2010 21:07)


Hahahaha! Sure you are Roberto :)!!!

How could I be so wrong and thought that you would be one of those persons calling for the death penalty for Assange??? I must really have missunderstood you....
(Srboslav, 9 December 2010 23:06)

Yes, you certainly have grossly misunderstood me, but it is a bit understandable w/ all of the vicious propaganda from yr lovely colleagues. they are certain i am a "neo-con", a knee-jerk US govt apologist, etc. nothing could be further fr the truth.

i've been a dissident here most of my life, and outspoken as well. spent many months (years) working ag the war (vietnam) and many other wars as well, incl iraq and Afghanistan, despite my intense contempt for saddam insane (fortunately having gone to meet his maker) and the taliban. the wars just go on and on and on, and our young people die, their people die, and for what? so we can apologize (or rationalize) 20 years hence?

about our policy in the balkans i was (and am) also critical: too little, too late. the intervention should have taken place in 1992, 1993 at the latest! a strong and decisive one. help get rid of evil milosevic, support democracy in serbia and throughout the balkans. easier said than done, but i still believe we could have saved many thousands of lives (of all ethnicities) if we (and other western powers) would have done the right thing early on.

but i am quite proud of our role in kosova, and our continued support for its people.

anyway, i have numerous serb frnds, as well as non-serb ones (remember them?) living inside serbia. but with the nationalists it's quite a different story.

freedom of information is an old cry of OURS, and we fought long and hard to declassify secret files fr the 60s, 70s, etc.

most of this currently leaked material, fr what i gather, is fancy-sounding diplomatic gossip. some of it is really LOL. i can't believe it is endangering anyone's life(??), that's usually the default excuse govt's offer for keeping their (usually boring) secrets.

And Hillary will just have to get over it.

anyway, i very seldom address folks on the other side, for better or for worse. but you sounded genuinely perplexed, so i figured a little explication was in order.

but one lawyer frnd of mine did remark that Assange should be "assassinated,"
so in that sense, you haven't totally missed yr mark. but me -- i eagerly await each and every new installment, it's better than the old Enquirer :))

ciao!

roberto
frisco

It is good China is not Serbias neighbour they would of gobbled you up militarily. Serbians would of protested then the benevolent Chinese rule they would ruthlessly of shot ,exiled ,imprisonment a lot of Serbian dissidents to hard labour until they died of coarse of "natural" causes. Then they would of moved millions of good Chinese party members to Serbia were they would hold key positions and be a majority. Then they would have a "democratic" all peoples referendum if Serbia wants to remain in China. Gee this sounds all so familiar and so close to home...
(Lenard, 9 December 2010 18:22)
--
Yes Lenard, read the last sentence again. It sounds familiar and close to home because that's basically what the EU/US and NATO have already done to Serbia. Our true allies and partners are in fact Russia and China. Russia has never forced Serbia to bow to it yet it helped us free ourselves of Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, NAZIs and soon NATO.

The fact is, Serbia does not belong in and should not join the dying EU. Really, we can't afford more debt than we can sustain. That's the common theme with EU members these days.

Spineless. Enough said.

Good luck with your 'Brotherhood and Unity' with your Chinese brothers!
(adrian kola, 9 December 2010 15:21)
====================

Thank you.

For those of you who say that Serbia is located in Asia etc. what about all you Albanians supporting USA? Is USA located in Europe or is Albanian located in America?
We don't envy you supporting this immoral country at all. A country that has waged a war somewhere in the world non stop since WW2 is not a country you should aspire to be like.
Good luck with friends like those. They eventually turn on each other and history has proven that.

Don't hate Americans,they saved you!
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)

Americans saved Serbs? When, in which war? Serbs saved Americans, seen this before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Halyard

They even bombed us at the end of war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Belgrade_in_World_War_II

MY WARNING TO B92: DONT YOU EVER DARE TO PUBLUSH SUCH FACSIST COMMENTS LIKE ONE FROM Delon!!! THIS IS NOT FIRST TIME THAT THIS TYPES OF COMMENTS ARE PUBLISHED!

Its a very easy decision, no brainer. If we were to always be looking out for Serbian interests before anyone else's then decisons like this are simple.


BRIC-the future, EU the past.

It is good China is not Serbias neighbour they would of gobbled you up militarily. Serbians would of protested then the benevolent Chinese rule they would ruthlessly of shot ,exiled ,imprisonment a lot of Serbian dissidents to hard labour until they died of coarse of "natural" causes. Then they would of moved millions of good Chinese party members to Serbia were they would hold key positions and be a majority. Then they would have a "democratic" all peoples referendum if Serbia wants to remain in China. Gee this sounds all so familiar and so close to home...
(Lenard, 9 December 2010 18:22)
======================

Yes Lenard, can you also tell us how are Chinese neighbours suffering and please do tell us about all the wars China has waged around the world.
Please stop with rubbish. You are giving us all a headache.

You can say what you want about global political plays. but in the end, the blgd regime shows its true colors, its utter contempof human rights which it anyway regards as some kind of foreign invention or import.

the blgd regime keeps the support of the communist party (china's) and loses any shred of ethical integrity. as if it ever had any.

ciao!

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 9 December 2010 21:13)

Hmmm...

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=12&dd=09&nav_id=71421

Not sure, what to say. But thanks for three drinks tough.

So why are you laughing at Serbia then?
(Peggy, 9 December 2010 21:52
--??
Je ne regrette rien.
Serbia is a very angry place today.

China and Russia own Serbia. They make them do stupid things like this, meanwhile Serbia is still out of the EU.
(AC, 9 December 2010 13:28)
======================

So is "Kosova". And not only out of the EU but Kosovo is out of the UN, FIFA, Eurovision and anything else they want to be included in.
So why are you laughing at Serbia then?

I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely. We can disagree on how Prisitna views this exile.
(lowe, 11 December 2010 10:54)

Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, China is not part of the EU and probably will never become; and then what ?!


Strange interpretation by you of my sources. How do they “proof” that the Yankees are better off than the Chinese?
(lowe, 11 December 2010 10:54)

Why strange ?! You provided proof that lenders are lending to the US a lot of money (and this is happening at record low interest rates). Lenders lend a lot and with low interest rates to borrowers who are well off; lenders are not stupid.

"Ah, you want the UN only. Fine, it does not change the argument. So my post becomes

“Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, Vatican is not part of the UN and probably will never become; and then what ?! “

Yet another irrelevance from you. I was referring to Kosovo not the Pope’s abode. Obviously you are addicted to overindulgence in utter irrelevance.

“Well, you provided sources about China, and such sources say that lenders are lending to the US a humongous amount of money and the sources did not say the same about China. So, based ONLY on the sources you provided, lenders think that the US is better off than China.
(icj1, 15 December 2010 10:41)”

That is a patent falsehood concocted by you! I provided 3 sources and on 11 Dec you replied “Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China”. In other words, you asserted that the comparative proof and conclusion that the US is much better off than China are to be found in these 3 sources. However none of them were about a comparison between China and the US in terms of who is better off, much less “much better off”.

The first 2 sources reflected the authors’ grave concern about the negative state of the Yankees’ financial position. Anyone with common sense will immediately see the negative tone in these articles about the US economy, which is hardly in keeping with the notion about how great the US is doing. And since China’s relative position was not the subject of discussion in these 2 sources, they therefore do not support your contention “that the US is much better off than China”.

As for the third source, it reflected Mdm Clinton’s grave concern about how to deal toughly with a China that is stronger today. A top Yankee politician’s worry about her country’s position vis-à-vis China can hardly be proof that “the US is much better off than China”.

In other words, that particular statement of yours is a falsehood.

Like I said before, this decision is a no-brainer, but, if you can't accept it, eu, consider it tadic's way of telling you: "Admit Serbia into the eu soon before the people tear me to pieces". tadic is a little man and he is turning Serbia into serbia.

But USA was too quick,they should have let hitler finish it's bussines
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)

Are you on... 'shrooms?

Don't hate Americans,they saved you!
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)
=====================

Pick up a history book and learn the truth.
It was not America who saved Europe.
BTW, Serbs saved 500 American, not the other way around.

China is already at peace and one of the most prosperous countries in the world.
(Zoran, 9 December 2010 11:18)

Whaaaat ?! You must have a very twisted understanding what “prosperous” means. According to IMF, China’s prosperity (as measured by PPP or nominal GDP per capita) is not even at the level of Albania, let alone Serbia. The average citizen of more than half of the world countries is more prosperous than the average citizen in China.

Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with both Russia and China. That is a healthy relationship my friends and one that protects our sovereignty
(Zoran, 9 December 2010 14:41)

Yeah, with declarations, nothing more…. We saw how successful China or Russia were at preventing Kosovo’s UDI :) Albanians wish that Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with both Russia and China as long as possible, because that’s the best guarantee that Serbia will not be shoulder to shoulder with those who matter in Kosovo, i.e. Europe.


Oh, why don't you just admit that you are secretly sore because Serbia just assured herself of an additional veto at the UNSC to any potential "Kosova" attempt at UN membership!
(lowe, 9 December 2010 15:00)

One veto is sufficient; why would you want two ?! Why would Serbia sell its soul for nothing ?! In addition, Kosovo in the UN or not, does not help Serbia on any practical issue ! Kosovo continues to be independent from Serbia, regardless.


[link]/
[link]
[link]
(lowe, 9 December 2010 16:31)

Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China


Anyway, China ranks second in the world regarding GDP. It has the world's largest foreign reserves, over $3 trillion and has one of the largest economic growth rates in the world, over 10%. If that is not a country prospering then I don't know what is.
(Zoran, 9 December 2010 16:38)

Zoran , I usually care about my pocket; that’s how I measure how prosperous I am. And the average Chinese is far away from being prosperous compared to the average person of the majority of the countries in the world. Of course, a larger country will have a larger GDP than a smaller country, but will also have more mouths to feed. You get the point ?


So is "Kosova". And not only out of the EU but Kosovo is out of the UN, FIFA, Eurovision and anything else they want to be included in.
(Peggy, 9 December 2010 21:52)

You forgot something; also out of Serbia :)

“One veto is sufficient; why would you want two ?! Why would Serbia sell its soul for nothing ?! In addition, Kosovo in the UN or not, does not help Serbia on any practical issue ! Kosovo continues to be independent from Serbia, regardless. “

The more the merrier, so the saying goes. Applies to vetoes too. I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely. We can disagree on how Prisitna views this exile.



“Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China
(icj1, 11 December 2010 05:34)”

Strange interpretation by you of my sources. How do they “proof” that the Yankees are better off than the Chinese?

“Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, China is not part of the EU and probably will never become; and then what ?! “

You are sidetracking. I was talking about UN entry not EU entry.

“Why strange ?! You provided proof that lenders are lending to the US a lot of money (and this is happening at record low interest rates). Lenders lend a lot and with low interest rates to borrowers who are well off; lenders are not stupid.
(icj1, 11 December 2010 18:17)”

Strange to me because I don’t think the 3 sources did a comparison of China and US, much less concluded that one is "much better off" than the other.

And you are not providing the required proof to back your statement by talking only about the US interest rates – your purported statement of fact claimed that the Yankees are “much better off” than the Chinese. I therefore need comparative evidence of US and China from these 3 sources since you are comparing these 2 countries. If you cannot show me the comparative evidence from these 3 sources, it would show your statement to be false.

Can you therefore show us where was the comparison made between these 2 countries in these sources and the compelling evidence and conclusion in these sources that the “US is much better off than China”?

MY WARNING TO B92: DONT YOU EVER DARE TO PUBLUSH SUCH FACSIST COMMENTS LIKE ONE FROM Delon!!!
(Milos, 10 December 2010 10:24)

No wonder: if Standartenführer of San Francisco is allowed to goose-step in the front - he has some follower Obersturmbahnführers of Skaberbeg 21st Waffen-SS hind him.

Kind of like this.

a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWd_jEMTfjo
b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHSTMwkYys0
c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCAVJo7qX6s

delon -- i find yr posting to be racist and offensive, and furthermore i don't believe it should have been published (as if they ever listen to me!)

just because we get a steady diet of anti-albanian speech (never challenged) is no reason to lower to that level.

ciao!

robert-0/frisco
(roberto, 10 December 2010 04:34)

Sorry - did notice your answer to delon way to late, so apologies for "Standartenführer". At least, now we are 1:1 with "Standartenführer" versus "antisemite".

And where Miri talked about Uruguay as "Youaregay" - there I did miss your posting A LOT. There are tons of "nationalists" on Serbian side, but I did not see so far anyone flying as low as Delon and Miri in their respective posts.

There it is:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=71359

The LACK of your comment (I kind of expected it!) made me explode.

And thanks again for criticizing Delon, his comment was a true nazi comment.

and they went after all

MY WARNING TO B92: DONT YOU EVER DARE TO PUBLUSH SUCH FACSIST COMMENTS LIKE ONE FROM Delon!!!
(Milos, 10 December 2010 10:24)

granted that delons comments were offensive to Serbs and in bad taste. But dude ,its only a comment.

You are sidetracking. I was talking about UN entry not EU entry.
(lowe, 12 December 2010 06:16)

Ah, you want the UN only. Fine, it does not change the argument. So my post becomes

“Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, Vatican is not part of the UN and probably will never become; and then what ?! “



And you are not providing the required proof to back your statement by talking only about the US interest rates – your purported statement of fact claimed that the Yankees are “much better off” than the Chinese. I therefore need comparative evidence of US and China from these 3 sources since you are comparing these 2 countries. If you cannot show me the comparative evidence from these 3 sources, it would show your statement to be false.
(lowe, 12 December 2010 06:16)

Well, you provided sources about China, and such sources say that lenders are lending to the US a humongous amount of money and the sources did not say the same about China. So, based ONLY on the sources you provided, lenders think that the US is better off than China.

Yet another irrelevance from you. I was referring to Kosovo not the Pope’s abode. Obviously you are addicted to overindulgence in utter irrelevance.
(lowe, 15 December 2010 13:43)

Well, you are only saying this now. Before you just said that you were “talking about UN entry”. And you also said that “I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely”. And we do agree with this. But than what? What are the implications ? Or we agree that there is no implication ? So no need to discuss any longer ?



That is a patent falsehood concocted by you! I provided 3 sources and on 11 Dec you replied “Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China”. In other words, you asserted that the comparative proof and conclusion that the US is much better off than China are to be found in these 3 sources. However none of them were about a comparison between China and the US in terms of who is better off, much less “much better off”.
(lowe, 15 December 2010 13:43)

Well you give me sources ***ABOUT*** China, which do not show that lenders are lending to China but to the US only. There is the comparison. If China was as well off as the US, lenders would not have any problem to lend to China. Why is it so difficult to understand it ?! In any case, my thanks still remain. You see, when you provide facts that are convincing, I don’t hesitate to thank you.

I dont buy it, he's saying it wasn't easy only for the benefit of the Western media. Supporting China was the moral & objective thing to do regardless of China's anti-UDI stance but their stance cemented the deal reciprocity

"The decision not to attend perhaps does not leave the best taste in the mouth, but we had to take into account our relations with key political factors in the world," said the minister.
--
I understand Mr Jeremic, that taste in your mouth comes from the rotten EU carrots you keep eating. Serbia made the right decision not to attend a politically motivated award ceremony. It has nothing to do with peace as China is already at peace and one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

Well now Serbia has become a puppy of both Russia and China. Serbia has two masters now and are ready to stamp on human rights for it's masters. Good job Serbia in choosing side. I bet you will be very strong in fighting against US,UK,France,Germany;japan and many more with the help of Russia,China,Cuba,Kazaksthan etc.

Good for EU to see that Serbia is not a democratic country and have no values for human rights. Just as it showed in the 90's.


Serbia is firm on it's stand because China told them we'll recognize Kosovo is you go to the nobel price cermony. And what does the little puppy ? Good to see that Serbia is located in Asia :)

Bardhyl: "Yes of course,probably it is the taste of the dog's meat. That will always happen when you "eat" with Chinese."

No matter how wrong you believe the decision to be to boycott the Nobel Peace Prize (which has sadly become a joke over recent years anyway, and yet another mutual back-slapping exercise for the 'masters'), your statement about the Chinese is offensive and racist.

That hardly puts you on high moral ground to criticise anyone else.

jeremic: "does not leave the best taste in the mouth". Yes of course,probably it is the taste of the dog's meat. That will always happen when you "eat" with Chinese.

Wow, I love the comments coming in. So now, according to some people, if you don't even attend a western organised political award ceremony then that in itself is a violation of human rights and peace?

Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with both Russia and China. That is a healthy relationship my friends and one that protects our sovereignty. Bowing before your masters is not and Wikileaks has exposed that clearly. I hope you guys read the ones about FYROM today.

It is good China is not Serbias neighbour they would of gobbled you up militarily. Serbians would of protested then the benevolent Chinese rule they would ruthlessly of shot ,exiled ,imprisonment a lot of Serbian dissidents to hard labour until they died of coarse of "natural" causes. Then they would of moved millions of good Chinese party members to Serbia were they would hold key positions and be a majority. Then they would have a "democratic" all peoples referendum if Serbia wants to remain in China. Gee this sounds all so familiar and so close to home...
(Lenard, 9 December 2010 18:22)
======================

Yes Lenard, can you also tell us how are Chinese neighbours suffering and please do tell us about all the wars China has waged around the world.
Please stop with rubbish. You are giving us all a headache.

Poor Serbia, your government speaks about democracy, human rights and European values, and at the same time your government makes big friendship with Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and some other countries, who don't know anything about any standards.....
This shows the real face of your government. If your government prefer the standards of Sudan, Iraq and Afhanistan it should stop to cry for EU support and EU money.

China and Russia own Serbia. They make them do stupid things like this, meanwhile Serbia is still out of the EU.

Robert- we can start talking about human rights when Croatia allows the return of refugees, and Kosovo allows return of Serb refugees. Those are the true enemies of human rights. Why don't you stand up for that. Your usual claptrap is becoming unbearable.

Yet another irrelevance from you. I was referring to Kosovo not the Pope’s abode. Obviously you are addicted to overindulgence in utter irrelevance.
(lowe, 15 December 2010 13:43)

Well, you are only saying this now. Before you just said that you were “talking about UN entry”. And you also said that “I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely”. And we do agree with this. But than what? What are the implications ? Or we agree that there is no implication ? So no need to discuss any longer ?



That is a patent falsehood concocted by you! I provided 3 sources and on 11 Dec you replied “Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China”. In other words, you asserted that the comparative proof and conclusion that the US is much better off than China are to be found in these 3 sources. However none of them were about a comparison between China and the US in terms of who is better off, much less “much better off”.
(lowe, 15 December 2010 13:43)

Well you give me sources ***ABOUT*** China, which do not show that lenders are lending to China but to the US only. There is the comparison. If China was as well off as the US, lenders would not have any problem to lend to China. Why is it so difficult to understand it ?! In any case, my thanks still remain. You see, when you provide facts that are convincing, I don’t hesitate to thank you.

of course it was easy. its the very foundation of serb political behavior.

"Serbia is firm on it's stand because China told them we'll recognize Kosovo is you go to the nobel price cermony. And what does the little puppy ? Good to see that Serbia is located in Asia :)
(Demi, 9 December 2010 11:35)"

Oh, why don't you just admit that you are secretly sore because Serbia just assured herself of an additional veto at the UNSC to any potential "Kosova" attempt at UN membership!

Are you real? Beside few million very rich try to look up how the masses get by in China. Many of them on 1 or 2 dollars per day.
(Joe, 9 December 2010 16:02)
--
Joe, I said China is prosperous as a country, not that every citizen is rich. If someone can live on 1 or 2 dollars a day in China, and I suspect they can then that is great. Every country has it rich and poor.

Anyway, China ranks second in the world regarding GDP. It has the world's largest foreign reserves, over $3 trillion and has one of the largest economic growth rates in the world, over 10%. If that is not a country prospering then I don't know what is.

It is good China is not Serbias neighbour they would of gobbled you up militarily. Serbians would of protested then the benevolent Chinese rule they would ruthlessly of shot ,exiled ,imprisonment a lot of Serbian dissidents to hard labour until they died of coarse of "natural" causes. Then they would of moved millions of good Chinese party members to Serbia were they would hold key positions and be a majority. Then they would have a "democratic" all peoples referendum if Serbia wants to remain in China. Gee this sounds all so familiar and so close to home...
(Lenard, 9 December 2010 18:22)
--
Yes Lenard, read the last sentence again. It sounds familiar and close to home because that's basically what the EU/US and NATO have already done to Serbia. Our true allies and partners are in fact Russia and China. Russia has never forced Serbia to bow to it yet it helped us free ourselves of Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, NAZIs and soon NATO.

The fact is, Serbia does not belong in and should not join the dying EU. Really, we can't afford more debt than we can sustain. That's the common theme with EU members these days.

Good luck with your 'Brotherhood and Unity' with your Chinese brothers!
(adrian kola, 9 December 2010 15:21)
====================

Thank you.

For those of you who say that Serbia is located in Asia etc. what about all you Albanians supporting USA? Is USA located in Europe or is Albanian located in America?
We don't envy you supporting this immoral country at all. A country that has waged a war somewhere in the world non stop since WW2 is not a country you should aspire to be like.
Good luck with friends like those. They eventually turn on each other and history has proven that.

China and Russia own Serbia. They make them do stupid things like this, meanwhile Serbia is still out of the EU.
(AC, 9 December 2010 13:28)
======================

So is "Kosova". And not only out of the EU but Kosovo is out of the UN, FIFA, Eurovision and anything else they want to be included in.
So why are you laughing at Serbia then?

I see the Albanians here are taking another opportunity to trash Serbia. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old song? As for snubbing this awards ceremony, this is a smart move on Belgrade's part. Why not play all sides? You can't have too many friends. As for the Nobel Prize, with the political farce that it has become, its very hypocritical existence should leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

I've heard a great deal about democracy and human rights in this thread, but I'm still not too sure what you're all really talking about. Sure, I understand that most of what is written here with respect to Western human right's example and China's lack is regurgitated from western mass media.
I'd like to understand the examples of the great level of human rights found in the model of the west: USA. Let us consider the right of a person to get well when ill. A nation so rich, so powerful has made it their mission to simply deny all of their citizens fair affordable medical care unless they meet the criteria for their basic government medical insurance plans. Explain the rights that their human citizens have when their options are sell everything they own, go into great debt in order to heal themselves.
What democracy and human rights and constitutional rights do American's have now? If you're of the opinion that human rights is simply something in the political forum and not day to day, then ask why it is that 1000 engineers, scientists and architects are denied, ridiculed and defamed for suggesting and supporting the evidence of the events of 9/11 -- that according to all laws of physics these 3 buildings could not have been downed as they were, that according to the analysis of the debris explosive markers were found at the site. Explosives that are not, nor were reported to have been on the planes. Here we have 1000 of some of the country's (and world's) prominent scientific figures, yet they are not listened to, and we listen to official rhetoric and mass media driven without substance.
Consider the left, right and mass media are out for Assange's scalp. They are calling out for his death. Nothing would make some of these glorious defenders of free speech, democracy and human rights happier than to see Assange murdered, but simple dead will be sufficient. They are asking for his extradition to the USA as well. The man did nothing but relay information -- the primary role of a journalist -- that was forwarded along to him. He didn't steal it, nor did he break into the US system.
Let us discuss democracy when a US president gets elected under questionable circumstances. If this happens elsewhere western nations all stand together and say "we might not be able to accept the results of the polls" (consider Haiti's recent election runoff and western opinions). Consider USA's unilateral actions against IRAQ. These actions were done without UN approval, as there wasn't sufficient evidence at the time, nor to ever surface that Iraq possessed WMDs.
These glorious considerations of the capital of the west, America, certainly demonstrate their own tenuous grasp of democracy, human rights, freedom of speech and their own constitution.
In no way can one suggest that USA is purely a bad guy and China is good, but one can easily suggest and see that both China and USA have something missing.
Many of us can remember the Tienanmen Square incident (a politically motivated case), but can we all remember the Kent State incident (another politically motivated case)?
We remember the Dali Lama's fights for freedom of religion, and subsequent fights for independence, but have we forgotten Clinton's denial of those freedoms to the Branch Davidians in Waco? Yes they had guns (but who in Texas doesn't -- we have a very high gun to person ratio), but were they causing harm to others? They were just practicing their own freedoms (that they thought they had) of religion. Who was the US government to tell them what constitutes are religion (tax purposes not withstanding)? Where were the human rights watch dogs there?
We're not so different really.
Let us consider the numerous projects and democratic injections done by the US. Central and South America are a mess because of the Monroe Doctrine. America considered these countries to be in their backyard, and their influence would be the only one. Their influence has led to many puppet regimes, many coups to over throw democratically elect governments (remember that GWB's assent to power came under some very questionable circumstances but we were told that it was "all good"). Their influence has led to the formation of "banana republics". They've transformed some tiny nations into factories designed to feed Americans, thus removing the nation in question's ability to sustain itself.
And let us pray tell ask and wonder how many innocent civilians have died at the hands of America's democracy around the world. Consider the recent adventures of America's military and spreading of democracy Iraq , Afghanistan and Pakistan. How many civilians died while America spreads their version of freedom? Now, how many have died because of China's aggressive attacks?
When we speak of things such as democracy, freedom, rights etc we need to remove ourselves from the television, newspaper or given media outlet, we need to look critically for ourselves at what is known. Look at what happened, why and how did it turn out. See for yourself and ask why the hypocrisy? Then you'll notice that though we've been told day after day in the west that we're the best at everything perhaps were not all that much better or worse than the next guy in many of these cases.
It would seem that indeed a lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth. However, let us remember this one thing: "If you lie to others you're hiding the truth, but when you lie to yourself you've forgotten where you hid the truth".

Serbs make loyal friends. Even at our cost. End of.

This is a tough !! what a move by the mighty Boris-Vuk duo... Were they aspire at EU candidancy sooner ? YES must they alligne Foreign police to EU ? YES o no sorry niet !! China is for the moment more important.. very interesting development ..maybe there is something else behind this "bold move"...maybe someone in Belgrade has understood that the doors in Brussels are due for a long period to remain .. closed ! So viva China and long life to the Comunist People Party !! HURRA !!

"Well now Serbia has become a puppy of both Russia and China. Serbia has two masters now and are ready to stamp on human rights for it's masters. Good job Serbia in choosing side. I bet you will be very strong in fighting against US,UK,France,Germany;japan and many more with the help of Russia,China,Cuba,Kazaksthan etc.

Good for EU to see that Serbia is not a democratic country and have no values for human rights. Just as it showed in the 90's.

Serbia is firm on it's stand because China told them we'll recognize Kosovo is you go to the nobel price cermony. And what does the little puppy ? Good to see that Serbia is located in Asia :)
Demi

Thank you for summarizing it so well.
At least the EU will see again what type of country is applying for membership.

China is a great country with different customs sometimes weird (for me personally) and has its own view on human rights and it is OK when they call for boycott for this NOBEL price. But, Serbia shall be on the same line with EU principles especially on human rights (remember Counsel of Europe)...so, when I say "eat" I mean only "be in the same line with China" which is impossible in this case because of the fact that often China is criticized from EU for the violation of human rights.

Its a very easy decision, no brainer. If we were to always be looking out for Serbian interests before anyone else's then decisons like this are simple.


BRIC-the future, EU the past.

It is good China is not Serbias neighbour they would of gobbled you up militarily. Serbians would of protested then the benevolent Chinese rule they would ruthlessly of shot ,exiled ,imprisonment a lot of Serbian dissidents to hard labour until they died of coarse of "natural" causes. Then they would of moved millions of good Chinese party members to Serbia were they would hold key positions and be a majority. Then they would have a "democratic" all peoples referendum if Serbia wants to remain in China. Gee this sounds all so familiar and so close to home it is good China is not Serbia neighbour. Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić government as usual standing on good moral principals and protecting them Um-hum and so shamelessly for sure. Bend over China some one is puckering their lips for you.

Is this a surprise to anyone? Serbia has always been doing bizarre things that are not in their best interest like raping, murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people. They provide safe sanctuary for war criminals and common criminals like Miladin Kovacevic the college basketball player. They paraded American soldiers on tv when they captured them in violation of the Geneva convention. They have criminal gangs called "Pink Panthers" robbing every country in the world. They supply countries with arms that are not friendly to the west. The list goes on and on. So, with that said, does Serbia snubbing the Nobel Prize surprise you? Get real.

Good luck with your 'Brotherhood and Unity' with your Chinese brothers!

China...."one of the most prosperous countries in the world."
Zoran

Are you real? Beside few million very rich try to look up how the masses get by in China. Many of them on 1 or 2 dollars per day. If you call that prosperity I guess you are not making much more yourself.

"Are you real? Beside few million very rich try to look up how the masses get by in China. Many of them on 1 or 2 dollars per day. If you call that prosperity I guess you are not making much more yourself.
(Joe, 9 December 2010 16:02) "

http://www.federalbudget.com/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/199393

Serbia's strategic priority remains "European future", he said, and added it would be "frightening" if it were to be halted over such a decision made by a "small country in a difficult situation".

Oh so touching. " A small country in a difficult situation". Please feel sorry for this little country that likes to act like a big country. It is frightening Mr.Jeremic because you know that someone keep scores of "these difficult situations" you serbs put yourselves over and over again. But please keep bitting the hand that is feeding you.

You can say what you want about global political plays. but in the end, the blgd regime shows its true colors, its utter contempof human rights which it anyway regards as some kind of foreign invention or import.

the blgd regime keeps the support of the communist party (china's) and loses any shred of ethical integrity. as if it ever had any.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

Wow Joe, you've certainly done your homework on that one.
Please refer to the following to links:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml
and
http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml
to complete your homework.

Let me summarize:
in USA:
Personal Average Income:
2005 Disposable = 19,776
in China
Personal Average Income :
2005 Disposable = 3,029 (in USD)
In USA:
Consumption Expenditure :
2005 Total = 15,816
In China:
Consumption Expenditure :
2005 Total = 2,292 (in USD)

...do some magical maths now...

in USA: 1.25 ratio of earned-spent
in China: 1.32 ratio of earned-spent

... seems the magic has shown that it's not really that different... Sure USA has "better quality" crap than China, but crap is still crap, not matter how nice it is.

NOTE: the China figures considered reflect rural and urban together. Feel free to analyze in greater depth.

"NOTE: the China figures considered reflect rural and urban together. Feel free to analyze in greater depth.
Smith

Thanks for the data. I don't know about you but I still want to live in the US and not in China.
You know there is something like "quality of life". I can compare it on a yearly basis by visiting Hungary and Austria. I have no intention and time to do the same with China.

"Oh so touching. " A small country in a difficult situation". Please feel sorry for this little country that likes to act like a big country. It is frightening Mr.Jeremic because you know that someone keep scores of "these difficult situations" you serbs put yourselves over and over again. But please keep bitting the hand that is feeding you.
Mark

Well said. I liked the "keeping scores" part.

@ Peggy!
Albanians suport USA because USA protected us.Not only us but Serbs also,and all Western Europe from Hitler.
But USA was too quick,they should have let hitler finish it's bussines with you Serbs,so we would not have these problems with you today.
Don't hate Americans,they saved you!

Don't hate Americans,they saved you!
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)
=====================

Pick up a history book and learn the truth.
It was not America who saved Europe.
BTW, Serbs saved 500 American, not the other way around.

Why was it the moral and objective thing to do, highduke?

# roberto
frisco

ps I, for one, am thoroughly enjoying wikileaks...
(roberto, 9 December 2010 21:07)


Hahahaha! Sure you are Roberto :)!!!

How could I be so wrong and thought that you would be one of those persons calling for the death penalty for Assange??? I must really have missunderstood you....
(Srboslav, 9 December 2010 23:06)

Yes, you certainly have grossly misunderstood me, but it is a bit understandable w/ all of the vicious propaganda from yr lovely colleagues. they are certain i am a "neo-con", a knee-jerk US govt apologist, etc. nothing could be further fr the truth.

i've been a dissident here most of my life, and outspoken as well. spent many months (years) working ag the war (vietnam) and many other wars as well, incl iraq and Afghanistan, despite my intense contempt for saddam insane (fortunately having gone to meet his maker) and the taliban. the wars just go on and on and on, and our young people die, their people die, and for what? so we can apologize (or rationalize) 20 years hence?

about our policy in the balkans i was (and am) also critical: too little, too late. the intervention should have taken place in 1992, 1993 at the latest! a strong and decisive one. help get rid of evil milosevic, support democracy in serbia and throughout the balkans. easier said than done, but i still believe we could have saved many thousands of lives (of all ethnicities) if we (and other western powers) would have done the right thing early on.

but i am quite proud of our role in kosova, and our continued support for its people.

anyway, i have numerous serb frnds, as well as non-serb ones (remember them?) living inside serbia. but with the nationalists it's quite a different story.

freedom of information is an old cry of OURS, and we fought long and hard to declassify secret files fr the 60s, 70s, etc.

most of this currently leaked material, fr what i gather, is fancy-sounding diplomatic gossip. some of it is really LOL. i can't believe it is endangering anyone's life(??), that's usually the default excuse govt's offer for keeping their (usually boring) secrets.

And Hillary will just have to get over it.

anyway, i very seldom address folks on the other side, for better or for worse. but you sounded genuinely perplexed, so i figured a little explication was in order.

but one lawyer frnd of mine did remark that Assange should be "assassinated,"
so in that sense, you haven't totally missed yr mark. but me -- i eagerly await each and every new installment, it's better than the old Enquirer :))

ciao!

roberto
frisco

Don't hate Americans,they saved you!
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)

Americans saved Serbs? When, in which war? Serbs saved Americans, seen this before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Halyard

They even bombed us at the end of war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Belgrade_in_World_War_II

MY WARNING TO B92: DONT YOU EVER DARE TO PUBLUSH SUCH FACSIST COMMENTS LIKE ONE FROM Delon!!! THIS IS NOT FIRST TIME THAT THIS TYPES OF COMMENTS ARE PUBLISHED!

China is already at peace and one of the most prosperous countries in the world.
(Zoran, 9 December 2010 11:18)

Whaaaat ?! You must have a very twisted understanding what “prosperous” means. According to IMF, China’s prosperity (as measured by PPP or nominal GDP per capita) is not even at the level of Albania, let alone Serbia. The average citizen of more than half of the world countries is more prosperous than the average citizen in China.

Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with both Russia and China. That is a healthy relationship my friends and one that protects our sovereignty
(Zoran, 9 December 2010 14:41)

Yeah, with declarations, nothing more…. We saw how successful China or Russia were at preventing Kosovo’s UDI :) Albanians wish that Serbia stands shoulder to shoulder with both Russia and China as long as possible, because that’s the best guarantee that Serbia will not be shoulder to shoulder with those who matter in Kosovo, i.e. Europe.


Oh, why don't you just admit that you are secretly sore because Serbia just assured herself of an additional veto at the UNSC to any potential "Kosova" attempt at UN membership!
(lowe, 9 December 2010 15:00)

One veto is sufficient; why would you want two ?! Why would Serbia sell its soul for nothing ?! In addition, Kosovo in the UN or not, does not help Serbia on any practical issue ! Kosovo continues to be independent from Serbia, regardless.


[link]/
[link]
[link]
(lowe, 9 December 2010 16:31)

Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China


Anyway, China ranks second in the world regarding GDP. It has the world's largest foreign reserves, over $3 trillion and has one of the largest economic growth rates in the world, over 10%. If that is not a country prospering then I don't know what is.
(Zoran, 9 December 2010 16:38)

Zoran , I usually care about my pocket; that’s how I measure how prosperous I am. And the average Chinese is far away from being prosperous compared to the average person of the majority of the countries in the world. Of course, a larger country will have a larger GDP than a smaller country, but will also have more mouths to feed. You get the point ?


So is "Kosova". And not only out of the EU but Kosovo is out of the UN, FIFA, Eurovision and anything else they want to be included in.
(Peggy, 9 December 2010 21:52)

You forgot something; also out of Serbia :)

Don't forget Mr. Ahtisaari was honored by this institution. That name still sends chills through the spine of Jeremic and other nationalists in Serbia.

Perhaps this had something to do with this as well?

But USA was too quick,they should have let hitler finish it's bussines
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)

Are you on... 'shrooms?

# @ Peggy!
Albanians suport USA because USA protected us.Not only us but Serbs also,and all Western Europe from Hitler.
But USA was too quick,they should have let hitler finish it's bussines with you Serbs,so we would not have these problems with you today.
Don't hate Americans,they saved you!
(delon, 9 December 2010 22:48)

delon -- i find yr posting to be racist and offensive, and furthermore i don't believe it should have been published (as if they ever listen to me!)

just because we get a steady diet of anti-albanian speech (never challenged) is no reason to lower to that level.

ciao!

robert-0/frisco

MY WARNING TO B92: DONT YOU EVER DARE TO PUBLUSH SUCH FACSIST COMMENTS LIKE ONE FROM Delon!!!
(Milos, 10 December 2010 10:24)

No wonder: if Standartenführer of San Francisco is allowed to goose-step in the front - he has some follower Obersturmbahnführers of Skaberbeg 21st Waffen-SS hind him.

Kind of like this.

a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWd_jEMTfjo
b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHSTMwkYys0
c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCAVJo7qX6s

I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely. We can disagree on how Prisitna views this exile.
(lowe, 11 December 2010 10:54)

Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, China is not part of the EU and probably will never become; and then what ?!


Strange interpretation by you of my sources. How do they “proof” that the Yankees are better off than the Chinese?
(lowe, 11 December 2010 10:54)

Why strange ?! You provided proof that lenders are lending to the US a lot of money (and this is happening at record low interest rates). Lenders lend a lot and with low interest rates to borrowers who are well off; lenders are not stupid.

Like I said before, this decision is a no-brainer, but, if you can't accept it, eu, consider it tadic's way of telling you: "Admit Serbia into the eu soon before the people tear me to pieces". tadic is a little man and he is turning Serbia into serbia.

Sure you can spin this Vuk, but it's only you that will get dizzy.

As an Albanian, this is actually quite a good move. Thank you Tadic and Vuk. Hopefully more of this stuff in the future.

You are sidetracking. I was talking about UN entry not EU entry.
(lowe, 12 December 2010 06:16)

Ah, you want the UN only. Fine, it does not change the argument. So my post becomes

“Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, Vatican is not part of the UN and probably will never become; and then what ?! “



And you are not providing the required proof to back your statement by talking only about the US interest rates – your purported statement of fact claimed that the Yankees are “much better off” than the Chinese. I therefore need comparative evidence of US and China from these 3 sources since you are comparing these 2 countries. If you cannot show me the comparative evidence from these 3 sources, it would show your statement to be false.
(lowe, 12 December 2010 06:16)

Well, you provided sources about China, and such sources say that lenders are lending to the US a humongous amount of money and the sources did not say the same about China. So, based ONLY on the sources you provided, lenders think that the US is better off than China.

Spineless. Enough said.

You can say what you want about global political plays. but in the end, the blgd regime shows its true colors, its utter contempof human rights which it anyway regards as some kind of foreign invention or import.

the blgd regime keeps the support of the communist party (china's) and loses any shred of ethical integrity. as if it ever had any.

ciao!

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 9 December 2010 21:13)

Hmmm...

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=12&dd=09&nav_id=71421

Not sure, what to say. But thanks for three drinks tough.

So why are you laughing at Serbia then?
(Peggy, 9 December 2010 21:52
--??
Je ne regrette rien.
Serbia is a very angry place today.

delon -- i find yr posting to be racist and offensive, and furthermore i don't believe it should have been published (as if they ever listen to me!)

just because we get a steady diet of anti-albanian speech (never challenged) is no reason to lower to that level.

ciao!

robert-0/frisco
(roberto, 10 December 2010 04:34)

Sorry - did notice your answer to delon way to late, so apologies for "Standartenführer". At least, now we are 1:1 with "Standartenführer" versus "antisemite".

And where Miri talked about Uruguay as "Youaregay" - there I did miss your posting A LOT. There are tons of "nationalists" on Serbian side, but I did not see so far anyone flying as low as Delon and Miri in their respective posts.

There it is:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=71359

The LACK of your comment (I kind of expected it!) made me explode.

And thanks again for criticizing Delon, his comment was a true nazi comment.

and they went after all

MY WARNING TO B92: DONT YOU EVER DARE TO PUBLUSH SUCH FACSIST COMMENTS LIKE ONE FROM Delon!!!
(Milos, 10 December 2010 10:24)

granted that delons comments were offensive to Serbs and in bad taste. But dude ,its only a comment.

“One veto is sufficient; why would you want two ?! Why would Serbia sell its soul for nothing ?! In addition, Kosovo in the UN or not, does not help Serbia on any practical issue ! Kosovo continues to be independent from Serbia, regardless. “

The more the merrier, so the saying goes. Applies to vetoes too. I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely. We can disagree on how Prisitna views this exile.



“Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China
(icj1, 11 December 2010 05:34)”

Strange interpretation by you of my sources. How do they “proof” that the Yankees are better off than the Chinese?

“Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, China is not part of the EU and probably will never become; and then what ?! “

You are sidetracking. I was talking about UN entry not EU entry.

“Why strange ?! You provided proof that lenders are lending to the US a lot of money (and this is happening at record low interest rates). Lenders lend a lot and with low interest rates to borrowers who are well off; lenders are not stupid.
(icj1, 11 December 2010 18:17)”

Strange to me because I don’t think the 3 sources did a comparison of China and US, much less concluded that one is "much better off" than the other.

And you are not providing the required proof to back your statement by talking only about the US interest rates – your purported statement of fact claimed that the Yankees are “much better off” than the Chinese. I therefore need comparative evidence of US and China from these 3 sources since you are comparing these 2 countries. If you cannot show me the comparative evidence from these 3 sources, it would show your statement to be false.

Can you therefore show us where was the comparison made between these 2 countries in these sources and the compelling evidence and conclusion in these sources that the “US is much better off than China”?

"Ah, you want the UN only. Fine, it does not change the argument. So my post becomes

“Yes, sure… and then what ?! Say, Vatican is not part of the UN and probably will never become; and then what ?! “

Yet another irrelevance from you. I was referring to Kosovo not the Pope’s abode. Obviously you are addicted to overindulgence in utter irrelevance.

“Well, you provided sources about China, and such sources say that lenders are lending to the US a humongous amount of money and the sources did not say the same about China. So, based ONLY on the sources you provided, lenders think that the US is better off than China.
(icj1, 15 December 2010 10:41)”

That is a patent falsehood concocted by you! I provided 3 sources and on 11 Dec you replied “Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China”. In other words, you asserted that the comparative proof and conclusion that the US is much better off than China are to be found in these 3 sources. However none of them were about a comparison between China and the US in terms of who is better off, much less “much better off”.

The first 2 sources reflected the authors’ grave concern about the negative state of the Yankees’ financial position. Anyone with common sense will immediately see the negative tone in these articles about the US economy, which is hardly in keeping with the notion about how great the US is doing. And since China’s relative position was not the subject of discussion in these 2 sources, they therefore do not support your contention “that the US is much better off than China”.

As for the third source, it reflected Mdm Clinton’s grave concern about how to deal toughly with a China that is stronger today. A top Yankee politician’s worry about her country’s position vis-à-vis China can hardly be proof that “the US is much better off than China”.

In other words, that particular statement of yours is a falsehood.

“Well, you are only saying this now. Before you just said that you were “talking about UN entry”. And you also said that “I think we agree that Kosovo remains out of the UN for a long, long time -- perhaps indefinitely”. And we do agree with this. But than what? What are the implications ? Or we agree that there is no implication ? So no need to discuss any longer ? “

I was talking about UN entry, but I was talking about Kosovo’s UN entry, NOT the Vatican’s UN entry which was and still is irrelevant. If you still cannot see this clear distinction about 2 entirely different entitites, then I think even your favourite Merrian-Webster won't be able to help you!




“Well you give me sources ***ABOUT*** China, which do not show that lenders are lending to China but to the US only. There is the comparison. If China was as well off as the US, lenders would not have any problem to lend to China. Why is it so difficult to understand it ?! In any case, my thanks still remain. You see, when you provide facts that are convincing, I don’t hesitate to thank you.
(icj1, 23 December 2010 02:27)”

I wrote 3 sources on my 9 Dec post, which you QUOTED and then replied “Thanks Lowe for providing proof that US is much better off than China” on 11 Dec. In other words you were referring only to those 3 sources (and not others that I may have provided in other threads on B92) as proof. These 3 sources however did not compare the relative positions of the US and China. Your statement that these 3 sources did such a relative comparison and then concluded that “the US is much better off than China” is therefore patently false.