Belarus to consider recognition of Abkhazia, S. Ossetia

So much for Kosovo's UDI being unique - we don't really hear much about that these days. It has set a precedent for many separatists throughout the world.

"...Didn't Abkhazia and South Ossetia declare independence in the early 1990s, over 15 before Kosovo did?
I think I'm right you know....

(Ian, UK, 5 November 2009 19:22)..."


>>>No, you are not right.

The issue here is not the year of the declared unilateral independence, BUT the potential years when this unilaterally declared independences were internationally and again unilaterally recognized.

So Abkhazia and South Ossetia were unilaterally internationally recognized by Russia only after US, UK and part of EU unilaterally recognized Kosovo, or we can say after Western decission to destroy long time lasting International Order concerning the issue.

Hope, now is clear.

I wonder when Serbia will recognize these two republics?
Most likely Medvedev told Serb polticians to do this ASAP. WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR!

EU and US bully opened Pandora Box with Kosovo.

Pay back time is here and coming...and this is just the start.

The mess that dumm-head Bush has created will take decades to cure.

So much for Kosovo's UDI being unique - we don't really hear much about that these days. It has set a precedent for many separatists throughout the world.
(Zoran, 5 November 2009 15:37)

Didn't Abkhazia and South Ossetia declare independence in the early 1990s, over 15 before Kosovo did?
I think I'm right you know.

If Kosovo has set a precedent, then how come no-one else has declared independence since?

Yes South Sudan is on set to have an independence referendum between 2012 and 2014, but this was planned and organised in 2005, three years before Kosovo declared independence.

So Abkhazia and South Ossetia were unilaterally internationally recognized by Russia only after US, UK and part of EU unilaterally recognized Kosovo, or we can say after Western decission to destroy long time lasting International Order concerning the issue.

Hope, now is clear.
(dean van der serbia, 5 November 2009 20:25)

I have really taken into consideration what you have said. However South Ossetia and Abkhazia unilaterally declared independence. However Kosovo followed the United Nations General Sectary Ahtisaari plan and were given the Green light by western countries. This never happened with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is therefore obviously a vengeance tacit from Russia. Not to mention that Russia had a war with Georgia and recognised Abkhazia and South Ossetia 5 days later, unlike NATO who had a war with Yugoslavia and (most of NATO) recognised Kosovo 9 years later after attempted peace negotiations. I can't think of a single separatist organisation/ group who were in the same situation as Kosovo on 17 February 2008. This is my point exactly!

Hope, now is clear.

"...I have really taken into consideration what you have said. However South Ossetia and Abkhazia unilaterally declared independence. However Kosovo followed the United Nations General Sectary Ahtisaari plan and were given the Green light by western countries. This never happened with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is therefore obviously a vengeance tacit from Russia. Not to mention that Russia had a war with Georgia and recognised Abkhazia and South Ossetia 5 days later, unlike NATO who had a war with Yugoslavia and (most of NATO) recognised Kosovo 9 years later after attempted peace negotiations. I can't think of a single separatist organisation/ group who were in the same situation as Kosovo on 17 February 2008. This is my point exactly!

Hope, now is clear.
(Ian, UK, 6 November 2009 03:31)..."


>>> Well it was quite explicit and understandable, but you have clear tendency of your mind tread slipping from the point, intentionally or unintentionally?
It looks like, with you, this conversation will be about "what came the first: chicken or egg"....so it is a waste of time.

Again to repeat, the fact is that US, UK and number of EU countries unilaterally, without World consensus (what is obvious now with the number of countries who recognized Kosovo on 62 or 64) for the first time in the modern history of International relations, decided to recognize unilaterally declared independence of the territory which belong to internationally recognized country, namely Serbia member of UN.

All rest, from your or mine side, is just an interpretation of above fact.

Your little make-up story..."United Nations General Sectary Ahtisaari plan and were given the Green light...therefore obviously a vengeance tacit from Russia"... is irrelevant subjective trip.
Separate your subjective trip on the issue from the simple fact I underlined above in single augmented sentence.

Am sure it won't be clear.

Ian,
It is nice that you do seem to understand bits and pieces of the situation on Georgia, but you forgot to incorporate the fact that the war with Russia and Georgia started as a soft war in the 90s. The war last year was Georgia's way of asserting its power, hoping that NATO would come to their rescue and bomb the life out of the S. Ossetians for their derelict ways (wanted to join up with N. Ossetia -- seems funny to think that Ossetia is torn between two contries).
The A-plan, which you so casually refer to is not a step-by-step-diy-udi document, but rather a proposed settlement document.
Furthermore regarding this flood of recognitions that hasn't happened: you must realize that 1-2 years is nothing. The issue is what happens 10 years, 20 years down the road. When and if Kosovo is truely successful then you'll see this sort of behaviour. Not too many seperatist movements want to jeopardize the little that they do have for no guarentee, but once their is a more appearant guarentee that simply declaring UDI will get you what you want then the flood will flow.

For the million ruble question when will the Russian empire will recognize Belorussian independence. What are you saying and implying thats how much Russia paid for Belorussia. That dose not bod well in that case for Serbia then either.

So much for Kosovo's UDI being unique - we don't really hear much about that these days. It has set a precedent for many separatists throughout the world.
(Zoran, 5 November 2009 15:37)
Actually, Serbia and Russia kept telling everyone that Kosovo was going to cause an avalanche of separatists declaring independence all around the globe. When this did not happen, Russia had to stimulate some activity to be able to say "I told you so".
However, no one in the world actually thinks the 2 are related, although those licking the boots of Russia will say so.

Most likely Medvedev told Serb polticians to do this ASAP. WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR!
(Kosova-USA, 5 November 2009 17:02)

But for your green light, didn't you know it...

Independence for everyone. Twice on Sundays!
--

Salome Zurabshivili (former Georgian FM) opined in and RFE/RL article a short while back that Russia's motives in recognizing both was to draw a line under any further unilateral recognitions by the West.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Moscows_Possible_Motives_In_Recognizing_Abkhazia_South_Ossetia/1291181.html

She was a very good minister so it was a major pity that Saakashvili kicked her out because she wouldn't lick his boots and look the other way whilst he was bestowing political and economic patronage on his friends...

I wonder when Serbia will recognize these two republics?
Most likely Medvedev told Serb polticians to do this ASAP. WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR!

So much for Kosovo's UDI being unique - we don't really hear much about that these days. It has set a precedent for many separatists throughout the world.

So much for Kosovo's UDI being unique - we don't really hear much about that these days. It has set a precedent for many separatists throughout the world.
(Zoran, 5 November 2009 15:37)

Didn't Abkhazia and South Ossetia declare independence in the early 1990s, over 15 before Kosovo did?
I think I'm right you know.

If Kosovo has set a precedent, then how come no-one else has declared independence since?

Yes South Sudan is on set to have an independence referendum between 2012 and 2014, but this was planned and organised in 2005, three years before Kosovo declared independence.

So Abkhazia and South Ossetia were unilaterally internationally recognized by Russia only after US, UK and part of EU unilaterally recognized Kosovo, or we can say after Western decission to destroy long time lasting International Order concerning the issue.

Hope, now is clear.
(dean van der serbia, 5 November 2009 20:25)

I have really taken into consideration what you have said. However South Ossetia and Abkhazia unilaterally declared independence. However Kosovo followed the United Nations General Sectary Ahtisaari plan and were given the Green light by western countries. This never happened with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is therefore obviously a vengeance tacit from Russia. Not to mention that Russia had a war with Georgia and recognised Abkhazia and South Ossetia 5 days later, unlike NATO who had a war with Yugoslavia and (most of NATO) recognised Kosovo 9 years later after attempted peace negotiations. I can't think of a single separatist organisation/ group who were in the same situation as Kosovo on 17 February 2008. This is my point exactly!

Hope, now is clear.

"...Didn't Abkhazia and South Ossetia declare independence in the early 1990s, over 15 before Kosovo did?
I think I'm right you know....

(Ian, UK, 5 November 2009 19:22)..."


>>>No, you are not right.

The issue here is not the year of the declared unilateral independence, BUT the potential years when this unilaterally declared independences were internationally and again unilaterally recognized.

So Abkhazia and South Ossetia were unilaterally internationally recognized by Russia only after US, UK and part of EU unilaterally recognized Kosovo, or we can say after Western decission to destroy long time lasting International Order concerning the issue.

Hope, now is clear.

Ian,
It is nice that you do seem to understand bits and pieces of the situation on Georgia, but you forgot to incorporate the fact that the war with Russia and Georgia started as a soft war in the 90s. The war last year was Georgia's way of asserting its power, hoping that NATO would come to their rescue and bomb the life out of the S. Ossetians for their derelict ways (wanted to join up with N. Ossetia -- seems funny to think that Ossetia is torn between two contries).
The A-plan, which you so casually refer to is not a step-by-step-diy-udi document, but rather a proposed settlement document.
Furthermore regarding this flood of recognitions that hasn't happened: you must realize that 1-2 years is nothing. The issue is what happens 10 years, 20 years down the road. When and if Kosovo is truely successful then you'll see this sort of behaviour. Not too many seperatist movements want to jeopardize the little that they do have for no guarentee, but once their is a more appearant guarentee that simply declaring UDI will get you what you want then the flood will flow.

EU and US bully opened Pandora Box with Kosovo.

Pay back time is here and coming...and this is just the start.

The mess that dumm-head Bush has created will take decades to cure.

For the million ruble question when will the Russian empire will recognize Belorussian independence. What are you saying and implying thats how much Russia paid for Belorussia. That dose not bod well in that case for Serbia then either.

So much for Kosovo's UDI being unique - we don't really hear much about that these days. It has set a precedent for many separatists throughout the world.
(Zoran, 5 November 2009 15:37)
Actually, Serbia and Russia kept telling everyone that Kosovo was going to cause an avalanche of separatists declaring independence all around the globe. When this did not happen, Russia had to stimulate some activity to be able to say "I told you so".
However, no one in the world actually thinks the 2 are related, although those licking the boots of Russia will say so.

Most likely Medvedev told Serb polticians to do this ASAP. WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR!
(Kosova-USA, 5 November 2009 17:02)

But for your green light, didn't you know it...

Independence for everyone. Twice on Sundays!
--

Salome Zurabshivili (former Georgian FM) opined in and RFE/RL article a short while back that Russia's motives in recognizing both was to draw a line under any further unilateral recognitions by the West.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Moscows_Possible_Motives_In_Recognizing_Abkhazia_South_Ossetia/1291181.html

She was a very good minister so it was a major pity that Saakashvili kicked her out because she wouldn't lick his boots and look the other way whilst he was bestowing political and economic patronage on his friends...

"...I have really taken into consideration what you have said. However South Ossetia and Abkhazia unilaterally declared independence. However Kosovo followed the United Nations General Sectary Ahtisaari plan and were given the Green light by western countries. This never happened with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is therefore obviously a vengeance tacit from Russia. Not to mention that Russia had a war with Georgia and recognised Abkhazia and South Ossetia 5 days later, unlike NATO who had a war with Yugoslavia and (most of NATO) recognised Kosovo 9 years later after attempted peace negotiations. I can't think of a single separatist organisation/ group who were in the same situation as Kosovo on 17 February 2008. This is my point exactly!

Hope, now is clear.
(Ian, UK, 6 November 2009 03:31)..."


>>> Well it was quite explicit and understandable, but you have clear tendency of your mind tread slipping from the point, intentionally or unintentionally?
It looks like, with you, this conversation will be about "what came the first: chicken or egg"....so it is a waste of time.

Again to repeat, the fact is that US, UK and number of EU countries unilaterally, without World consensus (what is obvious now with the number of countries who recognized Kosovo on 62 or 64) for the first time in the modern history of International relations, decided to recognize unilaterally declared independence of the territory which belong to internationally recognized country, namely Serbia member of UN.

All rest, from your or mine side, is just an interpretation of above fact.

Your little make-up story..."United Nations General Sectary Ahtisaari plan and were given the Green light...therefore obviously a vengeance tacit from Russia"... is irrelevant subjective trip.
Separate your subjective trip on the issue from the simple fact I underlined above in single augmented sentence.

Am sure it won't be clear.