Skopje quiet over Kosovo decision

Great job fyrom have a happy marriage with albanians. Please don't beg Serbia for help the day you have problems.

The president and the foreign minister should explain to parliament why diplomatic relations are being established now and in this manner. Macedonia, which is planning to build its international reputation based on a consistent policy, should not behave so erratically,” said Vlado Buchkovski, a former Macedonian prime minister and leader of the opposition Social Democratic Union of Macedonia (SDSM).

“I am sure that this decision is connected to the most important question—the name dispute,” he added.

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What does the name dispute have to do with Serbia's territorial integrity?

What doe's the name dispute have to do with Fyrom's illegal recognition of Kosovo?

It is very convenient for Fyrom's politicians to hide the reasons for their actions behind assumed pressures from external powers(never name them).

The truth is Fyrom like Kosovo are artificial states which were created by the West to be the thorns on Serbia and Greece and be used when the right conditions emerge.

The truth is Gruevksi's VMRO government is petty, stupid, Bulgaro-nationalistic and engage in petty, immature gesture politics as dictated by their EU and US masters.
Apart from Greece ,Gruevski has unsettled issues with Bulgaria and possibly with Serbia.

His newly-found freindship with the Albanians won't last long.The Albanian's won't settle for second best in Fyrom.Time is with their side.

The Macedonian decision will only come back to haunt them, not today or tomorrow, but somewhere through the pages of history.

Silence....what more can you expect of Skopje? they should be ashamed of their selves, they have become just a token of USA, i wonder who takes decisions in Skopje anymore, Slavs or maybe Albanians?

Skopje came to the border and Serbia was not there anymore. End of the story.
(Ruben, 21 October 2009 15:44)

No it is not the end of the story Ruben. As long as Resolution 1244 states that the AP Kosmet is still a constituent part of Serbia, it will remain as that. What passes for a government in Pristina is only temporary. You Albanians have to realise that is exactly what your Disneyland state is... temporary. Serbia will rightfully claim back what is hers, the Autonomous Province of Kosmet. No warlords, drug dealers, pimps or foreign imperialists can ever change that. The righteousness of international law is on Belgrade's side. Skopje will be reminded in time of the error of their ways. Time and changing shift in geo-politics is on Serbia's side.

It is time for Belgrade to repay Skopje's cowardice ten fold. Start backing Greece on the name issue.

Let's be perfectly brutal about this, Macedonian Government does not have balls.
We can discuss why and how but the fact is that. Albanians are the only ones who can gain from this fiasco.

FYROM should NEVER have of recognized Kosovo. How will they defend their borders when Albanians in FYROM call for independence? Just ask Slovakia, Spain, Cyprus, Romania. They (FYROMIANS) offened their own country more than they offended Serbia. Maybe I am wrong.... FYROMIANS are considering donating land to Albania.

In the end Albos aren't concerned without FYROM as they will be the majority very soon. FYROMIANS are being tossed around like a rag doll by Albos!

Code of silence
- is usually either kept because of threat of force, or danger to oneself, or being branded as a traitor or an outcast within the unit or organisation
- one wonders what is FYROM's ruling governments reason?

Maybe the Serbian government should 100% back and push Greece in its stance with regards name of the republic to the south of Serbia. Serbia could to parapharase Chashule;
"had no other choice, as it was essential to our country for FYROM to accept the name agreed with UN at the fall of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and its successor, Serbia, as a state obligation till approved by Greece"

This was bound to happen. I don't understand why it is suddenly a big deal.

Macedonia recognizing Kosovo, yes that was something get happy or mad about, depending on what side you're on. But this, the diplomatic relation, is a just a natural next step, a mere consequence.

Skopje came to the border and Serbia was not there anymore. End of the story.

i wonder who takes decisions in Skopje anymore, Slavs or maybe Albanians?
(Nikos, 21 October 2009 16:24)

Actually the Albanians do. Ever since the war in 2001 (which we were winning by the way) the UN made us include the Albanians in the government, military and all institutions. Well, that opened a Pandora's box, as if the Macedonian govt wasn't corrupt enough, now we have Albanian terrorists, drug dealers and criminals in our government. The Albanians in the government get what they want politically through threats. The slavs of Macedonia are powerless, and usually too sad about everything to do anything. Macedonians just cry and drink coffee while the Albanians slowly take over.

It would make much more sense for us to ally with the Serbs and Greeks, but our government cares only about the money (which the Albanian mafias have lots and lots of) and the people don't care about politics enough to make a difference, plus, if you say anything bad about Albanians publicly in the border regions you'll get shot.

So on behalf of the Macedonian Orthodox Slavs, I apologize for the actions of the Albanians in Macedonia that Milosevic placed there, as well as our own slav government officials that get paid by those Albanians.

Maybe the Serbian government should 100% back and push Greece in its stance with regards name of the republic to the south of Serbia. Serbia could to parapharase Chashule;
"had no other choice, as it was essential to our country for FYROM to accept the name agreed with UN at the fall of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and its successor, Serbia, as a state obligation till approved by Greece"
(Princip, Gracanica, KiM, Srbija, 21 October 2009 14:48)

No maybe about it. Definitely. Back Greece. Why on earth did Serbia ever recognise Macedonia in this present name? Why not back Greece on this on in the first place?
Here is a bunch of people saying bye bye Serbia, we don't want you any more and Serbia still gives them what they want.

Why oh why?

I have said many times, Serbia recognizing FYROM under the name 'Macedonia' is not only stupid, but treasonous. All this does is upset Greece, a very good ally, and keep the traitors in FYROM happy. It is completely unproductive as they jab the knife further into our backs.

What is to explain? The US/EU whisted Skoplje's arm so tight, that it threatened to cut off it's blood supply (economically). It does not take a world diplomat to figure that out. The next time Skoplje put it's hand out to the West, it would have been drawn back empty. It is not for the love of Albanians, believe me.

I have stoped being surprised by FYROMs decisions years ago, but I wonder how they actually think???

Do they think that the US and NATO will help them? When the Albanians in FYROM,Kosovo and Albania that want to steal half the area known as FYROM?????
Talking of playing the wrong card, they (NATO and the US) will back the Albanians and what will remain of the country so called "Macedonia"?

Never mind, FYROMIANs with their sucking up to NATO ideas will get whats coming to them, but hey! They can use their newly issued Bulgarian passports to travel and move freely into the EU and make FYROM even more albanian!

(Darko.....

Darko i see a very dark future for people like you. Always complaining about Albanians. Anyway i'm happy that some of you realise and accepts the fact that you're slavs.Now tell to you're leaders to change the Country name and make peace with Greece. And remeber that without the albanians there, you would'nt have a country. Try to show some respect to them and you'll be respected by them.Is very disturbing your statement about the albanians getting involved in the country institutions as something negative. Pehaps for you will be more just, something like the BiH version of convivence.If you want separation with the Albanians just aked that, i'm sure the albanians there will not miss you very much.

So on behalf of the Macedonian Orthodox Slavs, I apologize for the actions of the Albanians in Macedonia that Milosevic placed there, as well as our own slav government officials that get paid by those Albanians.
(Darko P, 21 October 2009 20:08)

Please explain how Milosevic is guilty of your government's bad decisions?
The man has been dead for years now and you sound just like an Albanian and blame him for all your problems.

You wanted to suck up to the US and thought by doing what they tell you would be OK. You're right about choosing wrong friends, but that was YOUR choice not Milosevic's. He never told you to separate in the first place. What did you think you were getting with idependence?
Then instead of realising you made a mistake in the first place you piled on more mistakes like recognising Kosovo which led you to this mistake.

Don't you dare blame anyone else but your own people. Without people's will it would've never got this far. You are the only ones who made the mess. Nobody forced you so please explain to us how is it that Milosevic is guilty here?

For Macedonia, Kosova is a big exporting market. Not to mention the 30 - 40% Albanian population in Macedonia. It would be shooting itself in the foot if Macedonia listened to the 1.2 - 3% Serb minority.

People from FYRoM should not give us false exuses. If they are not happy with their VMRO government they should take it to the streets and not vote for this government over and over again.

Do not forget that this is temporary border between Macedonia and Kosova.The real Border is Nish Kralev and Kurshumli.Real Albania or how you like to call Velika Albania.

To Darko P:

After "gruesome" description of what Albanian role is in Macedonia I have one advice for you than. Learn Albanian or move to Serbia.

"the fact that Maceonians are the only friends on the balkans that Serbia has."
Dan

Wishfull thinking! Serbia has good relations with most its neighbours. They could be better with some but overall they are exelent with Romania, Greece, Slovenia and the Republic of Srpska. How many true friends do the albanians have? Recognizing Kosovo does not mean they are your friends. You actually think countries would recognize Kosovo unless they had something to gain from it? Montenegro and Macedonia are two examples. No recognition, no EU/American aid!
Albanians are probably the only people in the world with no true friends. You have to understand the reason why the US and some EU states support an independent Kosovo.

"Besieging Russia is the main reason that led [George W.] Bush to support Kosovo's independence"
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/independent-kosovo-a-minefield-not-a-triumph/135623.aspx?storypage=2

And albanians thought they had friends!

Darko, you have a HUGE chip on your shoulder.
Milosevic did not send any Albanians to Macedonia. They chose to cross over to your side because you WELCOMED them. You did not need to keep them. You could've sent them as soon as practical but if you chose to keep them than it's your own fault. Besides, it's not the Albanians from Kosovo who are making demands, you poor misguided fool, it's your own home grown Albanians there. Don't blame Milosevic or anyone else for your mess.
I am not defending Milosevic, but I am just telling you how it is.
Face it, you made the mess yourselves. Why the heck should Serb riot in the street for people who have denounced them and seceded? What loyalty do you expect?
When the war broke out in Yugoslavia Macedonian women started protesting and demanding that their sons be released from Yugoslav army and sent home. You showed disloyalty to Serbs first so don't you dare come here trying to blame the Serbs for your misery.

(Ruben, 21 October 2009 15:44)

Great comment Ruben, short and right to the point.

Darko P
unfortunately thats what happens if you get the albanians in the government. they dont settle with that they only wanna take more and more. I thought Skopje was smarter than that and also your government has alienated Serbia and Greece. Anyway i am glad some people in Skopje like you understand who will benefit by all this...

'Macedonians just cry and drink coffee while the Albanians slowly take over. --DARKO

"SLOWLY"???? LOL unlikely! :)

FYROM sucks big time!

"SKOPJE -- Macedonian officials have refused to explain their decision to establish diplomatic relations with Kosovo."

Why the have to explain to anyone? Macedonia is a Independent country and doesnt have to explain to anyone anything for their decisions?

I'm suprised to read that many of the Serbian nationalists still view the Macedonians as their "little" brothers despite the fact that Maceonians are the only friends on the balkans that Serbia has. Maybee that's part of the problem!

"The next time Skoplje put it's hand out to the West, it would have been drawn back empty. It is not for the love of Albanians, believe me.
(svojgazda"

Believe me, we know and are under no illusions about Slav 'love' for Non - Slavs!!!

Tsar Stefan Dusan was crowned King of all Serbs and Greeks in Skopje, Ohrid was a major center of the Serbian Empire, we both fought against the Germans and the Turks together and the first Chetniks were Pro-Serbian Macedonians. These are things that will survive history, "Macedonia establishes diplomatic ties with Kosovo" will not.
(Darko P., 22 October 2009 20:33)

So you admit that Macedonia was part of Serbia at one time. Then why not continue to be in some sort of federation with the Serbs if you like the Serbs so much.

Please tell that garbage to someone who hasn't seen first hand what Macedonians think of Serbs. I have personally been to Macedonian functions where anti Serb songs were sung. I have witnessed Macedonians supporting Bosnian Muslims and Croatians at demonstrations in Australia during the 90s war. Now any Serb witnessing any of this will get it that Macedonian don't like Serbs and would rather buddy up to anyone else and throw their support for anyone else.

I have seen all this. You cannot tell me it didn't happen. You guys told Serbs to get lost first and then you come here telling me how Serbs should've rioted in the streets in support of you.
It is not Serbia's fault that Albanians are causing trouble for you. They set out to cause trouble for everyone else too. Montenegro is not safe either. They will cause trouble there soon enough and want a chunk of their territory as well. Should Montenegrins blame Serbs for that too?
Are you saying that Serbia should not have tried to protect Serbs of Kosovo and just sit still while Albanians kept terrorising them?
War happened and refugees left Kosovo. This includes Serbian refugees as well.
If you didn't want refugees you should've done what Croatia did. Let them pass through on their way to somewhere else. You cannot blame Serbia for your inability to control your own country.

Maybe one day Serbia and Macedonia will have good relations, but Macedonia has to stop stabbing Serbia in the back first.

Dear All,
All the time that I read your comments here, I see how shortseeing the ballcan people are. There are all around the World going on ideas of making alliances and unions, even China and Japan is very probably that they will make their Union (sworn enemies I can say). While all these small balcan countries hate each other and never get to the point of cooperation and cuting the barriers of regional development. Instead of thinking the ballcan leaders to make a regional alliance (called as you wish, Ballcan Union) or make all neccesary steps to join EU a.s.a.p. they just stick to old problems and speak about nationalism just to take votes and to stay in power, for poor people that they suffer who cares... shame on ballcan politics, shame on yung people who supports the ideas of racism and distinctions on etnic origin. Today we are on the process of globalization and respecting each other is the only way to get and to buld a better world for all of us.
Peace to All!

Let us be clear once and for all we did not pass the borders the borders passed us. Kosovo is Albania period. Kosovo is 90% Albanian and lets take it for what it is. If you want to go back in history who came from where and should go back lets take all slavs back to Russia where they came from starting with the Serbs.

Zoti

You should be ashamed to say that for a country (Greece)that is providing food and homes for hundreds of thousands of your countrymen as we speak. But then what more can you expect from albanians than bite the hand that feeds them? And Where is that albanian genocide that you are referring too? Why hasent anyone recognized it, not even your own country? Seems most albs here suffer from a complex of inferiority.

what's the issue? cut off relations with macedonia, that's all there is to it.

The insolence of the Albanian panel on this site knows no bounds. I have only one comment on all that, you should pray to your God that we Slavs are not united or we would not have Albanian problem.

well,even with not any true friend,we manage to be a big problem for you slaves,do't we?
(lili, 22 October 2009 21:57)

How right you are, indeed a big problem for the EU!

Albanians are probably the only people in the world with no true friends
well,even with not any true friend,we manage to be a big problem for you slaves,do't we?
(lili, 22 October 2009 21:57)
Why You haven't friends?? mayby becouse You started wars in neighbour countries?? So - any neighbour country like aggresive nation.

Look at Hungarians - millions of them live in neighgbour countries - but in any country they started separatist war. They fight for they rights peacefully, not with AK-47 and bombs. So - nobody in Serbia attacked Hungarians or send police against Hungarians and Vojvodina live in peace and is real multiethnic place.

@BG.

Greece did not realize anything. On the contrary Bulgaria had to step down and it did. Now the past is over and both countries realized that only a future together is possible.

@Darko

Greeks rioted for serbs without demanding anything (Bombings, nato in kosovo etc). Greece didnt recognize Kosovo and again didnt demand nothing. And if serbia has a non slavic friend that is greece, even countries have no friends but interests. And those times greek/serbian interests walked hand in hand. Now look the greek investements in serbia (and whole Balkan) the only Country that tries to cut a friends hand is FYROM. Or didnt greeks invest in skopje? You guys only want and want and want regardless towards who, if its greece or serbia doesnt matter.

Macedonia as a Slav state will not exist in 30 years so who cares what they think. The way things are going it will be part of Greater Albania.

Darko i see a very dark future for people like you. Always complaining about Albanians.
Try to show some respect to them and you'll be respected by them. Is very disturbing your statement about the albanians getting involved in the country institutions as something negative
(TheONE, 21 October 2009 21:18)

Well, I see a dark future for the people of Macedonia if the Albanian dominance continues. And yes, it is negative when politicians like Menduh Taci say “change the flag, change the national anthem and make Albanian the second language or Cao! Arrivederci Macedonia!” If you’re Albanian, you’re probably from Albania proper or Kosovo where they don’t shoot each other during elections and stab young Macedonian boys for walking down the street. I don’t care where you’re from, it’s hard to respect a people who have no respect for your country or you or your culture even though they live in it and with it.

Please explain how Milosevic is guilty of your government's bad decisions?
The man has been dead for years now and you sound just like an Albanian and blame him for all your problems.
You are the only ones who made the mess. Nobody forced you so please explain to us how is it that Milosevic is guilty here?
(Peggy, 21 October 2009 21:51)

I never said he was guilty of the government’s decisions. I said he placed many of the Kosovar Albanians into Macedonia in the first place. You want to argue that? Kosovo was your problem no one else’s. Macedonia was actually quite peaceful until the war and Milosevic kicked all the militant fundamentalist Albanians into Macedonia where they started trouble almost immediately. So no, we didn’t make any mess you did. That is why the Macedonians are looking to the West because everyone creates messes for us. We are a small and weak country who threatens no one yet everyone threatens us because they want the land. I am actually pro-Serbian but people like you are not good for anything. Keep defending Milosevic he was an angel. I’m glad your not a politician.
BTW how can you blame the common Macedonian people? What, you expect them to riot in the streets because of Kosovo? Riot for Serbia? When has Serbia ever rioted for us? The people are poor and have to worry about feeding their families you must live in a fantasy world. Maybe if the unemployment rate wasn’t 40% then they would have the piece of mind to do something about the Government’s stance on Kosovo. Most Macedonians love Serbia, they watch Pink TV and know every turbo folk song, but Serbs still always have a problem with us every time the government does something they dislike. Don’t take your frustration out on me, I am no lover of Albanians or a supporter of independent Kosovo, but you should heed your own advice, stop blaming us for Serbia’s problems . Plus, did you forget that Crna Gora recognized Kosovo before Macedonia?

ALBANIANS MAKE UP 25% OR LESS OF MACEDONIA’S POPULATION NOT 40%. THAT IS A NATIONALIST HALLUCINATION.

BG
yes we have good relations with Bulgaria because we are civilized and we live in 2010, not because we are sorry of debulgarization.But we can never forget the pogrom of greeks in eastern Rumelia in 1878 the bulgarazation attempt of 1904-1908, the attack of Bulgaria in second balkan war and the second bulgarazation attempt of 1941-44. Nazi-aligned Bulgarian occupation forces persecuted the local Greek population and settled Bulgarian colonists in their occupation zone in eastern Macedonia and western Thrace.And dont also forget the 15000 executed in Drama. If someone has realized its mistakes that is Bulgaria,so dont look back because its not to your interest..

As an Albanian here it breaks my heart to see Serbs and Macedonians quarrel over the Albanian matter. Let me just present our side of the story to calm the waters somehow.

It's true that 90% of Albanians migrated to Kosovo from Albania during Tito's time and then under Milosevic's master plan they were sent to Macedonia. We still hate you will all of our hearts and want to grab all the land we can from you.

What you should is exterminate all the Albanians, if possible, like Greece did after WWII. See Greece has no Albanian question nowadays.

If it weren't for the name issue Greece, Macedonia and Serbia would be part of a powerful Orthodox alliance and would have quashed the Albanian issue. So my suggestion is for the Skopians here to get over the name issue, rename yourselves to Vardarians to appease the Greeks, rejoin Serbia and then refocus all of your energies on hating the Albanians again. Maybe send a couple of millions to Turkey in population exchanges. It pains us to see you divided.

Besides, it's not the Albanians from Kosovo who are making demands, you poor misguided fool, it's your own home grown Albanians there
Face it, you made the mess yourselves. Why the heck should Serb riot in the street for people who have denounced them and seceded? What loyalty do you expect?
When the war broke out in Yugoslavia Macedonian women started protesting and demanding that their sons be released from Yugoslav army and sent home. You showed disloyalty to Serbs first so don't you dare come here trying to blame the Serbs for your misery.
(Peggy, 22 October 2009 13:31)

Actually, many of the Kosovo Albanians stayed and they are connected very intricately between the ones in Kosovo and in Macedonia, so yes they are making demands.
Now this conversation is turning to something else. Macedonia did not secede from Serbia we seceded from Communist Yugoslavia. If you want to get into the Yugoslav Army, I’m pretty sure Serbian women wanted their sons sent home too. In fact, the rate of draft dodgers in Belgrade in the 1990s was close to 90% so what you brought up is totally pointless and has no bearing when it comes to anything what so ever.

Anyways, Macedonians and Serbs will always get along no matter what the neo-politicians on here say. We go to the same churches, drink rakija together and sing the same songs. Either our government will get smarter and Greece, Macedonia and Serbia will have a strong alliance together and our government wont have to be scared of the Albanians any more, or our government will get us all killed. We'll see what happens, but either way, Macedonia and Serbia have much history together, Tsar Stefan Dusan was crowned King of all Serbs and Greeks in Skopje, Ohrid was a major center of the Serbian Empire, we both fought against the Germans and the Turks together and the first Chetniks were Pro-Serbian Macedonians. These are things that will survive history, "Macedonia establishes diplomatic ties with Kosovo" will not.

"Bulgaria really attacked Greece because it supported the Serbian occupation of today's Macedonia."

Do you really believe that? the truth is Bulgaria attacked everybody to gain more land but you lost. you tried to do the same in 1st and 2nd world wars but you lost again.

"What is it that you expect from Macedonia which is smalled and weaker and has problems that we can't even dream of. Please differentiate between government and people."
(milan2, 24 October 2009 11:33)

But Milan, it's the people who are against the Serbs, well people in Australia at least.

I have witnessed Bosnian Muslims and Croatians demonstrating in the streets of Melbourne against the Serbs. Guess who joined them?
Yes, Macedonians with their Macedonian flags waving.
When the Serbs took to the streets to demonstrate it was the Greeks who joined them with their Greek flags waving.
So you tell me now if the Macedonians of Australia have any reason to be afraid because they are a small country and join the Croatians and Bosnian Muslims in their demonstrations?

I have been present at some functions when they played anti Serbian and Greek songs. How are these fords for you? Serbia leave us alone, Greece leave us alone. These are the words from a song they were singing and I have heard it with my own ears.

So, don't come here and tell me that Macedonians love Serbs. Not in Australia they don't anyway. What have the Macedonians done to show their solidarity with Serbs?
I have spoken to Macedonians way before the war who didn't say they were Yugoslav but only Macedonian and so I asked them to tell me the name of their president. They were not happy with me.

I have seen too much here and heard too much from the Macedonian community to know that they are anti Serb and pro Croatian and Bosnian Muslim. Have you witnessed those demonstrations in Melbourne?

Albanians are probably the only people in the world with no true friends
well,even with not any true friend,we manage to be a big problem for you slaves,do't we?

The truth is Gruevksi's VMRO government is petty, stupid, Bulgaro-nationalistic and engage in petty, immature gesture politics as dictated by their EU and US masters.
Apart from Greece ,Gruevski has unsettled issues with Bulgaria
(Leonidas,
How can Gruevski be BOTH “Bulgaro-nationalistic” and yet has has unsettled issues with Bulgaria?
How Slaves could have become “Macedonians” when the name Macedonia was not ever used in the Middle Ages?
Why Serbia ever recognized Macedonia under that name? Well because Macedonizm was a Serbian invention in order to estrange the Macedonian Bulgarians from their mother country. As a result we had several wars and finally a black hole.
To achieve a strong front against the Islamic influence on the Balkans Greece and Serbia can’t DO it without Bulgaria. And to attract it in their camp they have to show understanding that for us Macedonia is what Cyprus is for Greece and Montenegro for the Serbs.

Usually those that are ashamed of what they've done keep silent.

And to attract it in their camp they have to show understanding that for us Macedonia is what Cyprus is for Greece and Montenegro for the Serbs.
(BG, 22 October 2009 13:32)

That's not true. The Greeks in Cyprus actually WANT to be part of Greece and Montenegro and Serbia were at one time ONE country. Macedonia and Bulgaria were never part of the same country other than when Nazi-allied Bulgaria annexed it for a couple years and most Macedonians would rather die than be part of Bulgaria.

"And albanians thought they had friends!
(MikeC"

You see, that's the whole point. We Albanians know who our friends are...Albanians..only!! It's you Serbs who thought Christianity bonded you with Europe or the US. Or, that Draza M./Cetniks were allies of the west and the west would come to your Christian Serbia's rescue. lolol..Totally Unlikely!!

yes we have good relations with Bulgaria because we are civilized and we live in 2010, not because we are sorry of debulgarization.But we can never forget the pogrom of greeks in eastern Rumelia in 1878 the bulgarazation attempt of 1904-1908...

There was never a pogrom i Eastern Roumelia! There has always been a small Greek community there, and it is well integrated!
The traagedy came in 1885 when Serbia attacked Bulgaria after the Reunification with E. Roumelia without being provoked in any way! The Serbs were defeated but a wound was opened
The only time the Balkan countryes were really successful was in the First Balkan War, when with a combined effored the Ottomans were kicked out of the Balkans. It may be only a footnote that it was the Bulgarian army that crushed the balwark of the Turkish Army infront of their capital!
And it was tragic that the Balkan league did not last. Bulgaria really attacked Greece because it supported the Serbian ocupation of today's Macedonia.
After that everything went ugly. Its unwise to count whetehr Greeks slaughtered more Bulgarians or the other way arround.
The good thing is that the Greeks have reconsidered about the debulgarization though Macedonization! Let's not forget that it was the Greek government that first introuduced the "Macedonian' language thought the so called "Abeceder" in the 20-s. (Indeed they thried s similar tacktoic with the so-called Pomak language (for the Muslimized Bulgarians i Eastern Thrace)The Serbs now see how absurde the creation of new languages (Bosnian, Montenegrin etc.) is. Nobody has thied yet to creat a Creaty, or Cypriot...
Now Greeks realized how counter-productive the Macedonization was. If the Serbs too realize it, the Balkan league could be restaured.
I was one of the many in BG who opposed NATO bombing and the recognition of Kosovo. But unless Serbia changes its attitude towards Bulgaria it will always push it in the oposit camp. And that is no good for anyone! Victories prove temporary, distrust last longer!

This action by Skopje seems to be as a result of Albanian agression.What would happen to West Macedonia if the Albanian hornets nest is disturbed? Skopje thinks we better try and stay on the Albanians good side or else thye might start trouble like in 2001.They don't have to stay on Srbija's good side since we are not theartening trouble if we don't get our way.Macedonia will at some point in the future be tested when the Albanians inevitably want MORE.

FYROM, has to follow its national interests. Bordering Albania to the west, Kosova to the north and with a quarter of its population of Albanian ethnicity, they have to certainly take into consideration the Albanian factor.
Besides they already recognized Kosova, what's the fuss about when they establish political ties.

The threats from some of the Serb members towards FYROM are so childish.

Zoti

You should be ashamed to say that for a country (Greece)that is providing food and homes for hundreds of thousands of your countrymen as we speak. But then what more can you expect from albanians than bite the hand that feeds them?
(Nikos, 22 October 2009 16:52)

Nikos, what food are you talking about the food the Albanian migrants earned with their sweat? What does that have to do with the extermiantion of the Cham population in Epirus?
Do you want us to be grateful to you like you are grateful to us for helping you liberate your country from the Turks?

Contrary to what you believe and say Albanians live and die by their code of honor we just don't appreciate backstabbing and if there's one thing Greeks are known throughout their history for is exactly that, BAKSTABBING.

If the Greeks and the Slavs did the honorable thing when you won the Balkan Wars against the Turks and left Albanians within their natural borders and not try to divide our lands amongst yourselves there wouldn't be none of these problems today.
Instead you did and are reaping what you sowed 100 years ago.

The final act has not been played yet. Stay tuned.

great iliria 2015 what goes around comses around

Darko,
Tha fast majority of Macedonians WANTED to be part of Bulgaria in 1913. My greandparents and hundreds of thousands of others came to Bulgaria running from Greek and Seerbian terror!
The Serbian refusal to honor the Serbo-Bulgarian treaty of 1912 caused several wars.
The Debulgarization of Macedonia almost succeded. Are you happy with the results?
Greece did realize its mistake, and now we see an incredable Greek-Bulgarian reconciliation! It is time Serbia reconsiders!

Bulgaria never wanted any land not populated by their own people (I exclude the rediculous occupation of Tasos and Samotrace during WWII. That was rediculed by Bulgarian peoples folklaor.)
But in 1913 it could not abandon Ohrid. Out of about 30 Bulgarian generals during WWI 8 were born in Ohrid!!! (saddly two of them crushed a Serbian uprising in Nish area in 1917!)
Two Bulgarian prime ministers were born of that time were born in today's Macedonia!
The sad thing is that the Albanians will take over today's Macedonia. When I go to Ohrid I may agrue with some of the locals all the time, but after two or three rakias we find that we understand ourselves perfectly. But when I go to Struga, I understand nothing "miro pafshem" "fali minderit" etc. whatever it means!The anti-Bulgarian poison injected in the minds of the Macedonians during Yugoslavia's time will evaporate when it will be too late!
Then it will be as it always has been. Tho "Others" will take the territory, we will take the population! And it will be even more sad that most Bulgarians will blame the Serbs for it!

There are a lot of hotheads here especially from the Serbian side. A lot of blame is being put on the Macedonian (whatever you want to call them is not my affair) people for selling out the Serbian people and Serbian Kosovo. The fact is that what Darko has said is true. Maco's love Serbian music, culture, Serbia itself and don't have any problems with the Serbian people. The govt in Skopje sings to a different tune and the tune played by US/NATO/Brussels. TO my fellow Serbian posters what do you expect from Macedonia and the Macedonian government when the Serbian government has clearly sold out Kosovo? What is it that you expect from Macedonia which is smalled and weaker and has problems that we can't even dream of. Please differentiate between government and people.

I have personally been to Macedonian functions where anti Serb songs were sung. I have witnessed Macedonians supporting Bosnian Muslims and Croatians at demonstrations in Australia during the 90s war.
-Peggy

Australia huh? I thought we were talking about MACEDONIA and SERBIA not rich diaspora nationalists dettached from the reality of their former homes. The fact that you brought up the 90s War is proof enough of your dettachment. In Australia don't you guys also fight Croats and Bosnians at tennis and volleyball matches? No wonder you have that view of Macedonians. You've probably never been to Serbia or Macedonia. Try going there, then you'll see that Macedonians in MACEDONIA like Serbs because that's what we're talking about, Macedonians in Macedonia not Australians.

Do not forget that this is temporary border between Macedonia and Kosova.The real Border is Nish Kralev and Kurshumli.Real Albania or how you like to call Velika Albania.

This was bound to happen. I don't understand why it is suddenly a big deal.

Macedonia recognizing Kosovo, yes that was something get happy or mad about, depending on what side you're on. But this, the diplomatic relation, is a just a natural next step, a mere consequence.

Skopje came to the border and Serbia was not there anymore. End of the story.

"SKOPJE -- Macedonian officials have refused to explain their decision to establish diplomatic relations with Kosovo."

Why the have to explain to anyone? Macedonia is a Independent country and doesnt have to explain to anyone anything for their decisions?

For Macedonia, Kosova is a big exporting market. Not to mention the 30 - 40% Albanian population in Macedonia. It would be shooting itself in the foot if Macedonia listened to the 1.2 - 3% Serb minority.

(Ruben, 21 October 2009 15:44)

Great comment Ruben, short and right to the point.

I'm suprised to read that many of the Serbian nationalists still view the Macedonians as their "little" brothers despite the fact that Maceonians are the only friends on the balkans that Serbia has. Maybee that's part of the problem!

To Darko P:

After "gruesome" description of what Albanian role is in Macedonia I have one advice for you than. Learn Albanian or move to Serbia.

What is to explain? The US/EU whisted Skoplje's arm so tight, that it threatened to cut off it's blood supply (economically). It does not take a world diplomat to figure that out. The next time Skoplje put it's hand out to the West, it would have been drawn back empty. It is not for the love of Albanians, believe me.

Skopje came to the border and Serbia was not there anymore. End of the story.
(Ruben, 21 October 2009 15:44)

No it is not the end of the story Ruben. As long as Resolution 1244 states that the AP Kosmet is still a constituent part of Serbia, it will remain as that. What passes for a government in Pristina is only temporary. You Albanians have to realise that is exactly what your Disneyland state is... temporary. Serbia will rightfully claim back what is hers, the Autonomous Province of Kosmet. No warlords, drug dealers, pimps or foreign imperialists can ever change that. The righteousness of international law is on Belgrade's side. Skopje will be reminded in time of the error of their ways. Time and changing shift in geo-politics is on Serbia's side.

It is time for Belgrade to repay Skopje's cowardice ten fold. Start backing Greece on the name issue.

The president and the foreign minister should explain to parliament why diplomatic relations are being established now and in this manner. Macedonia, which is planning to build its international reputation based on a consistent policy, should not behave so erratically,” said Vlado Buchkovski, a former Macedonian prime minister and leader of the opposition Social Democratic Union of Macedonia (SDSM).

“I am sure that this decision is connected to the most important question—the name dispute,” he added.

b92

What does the name dispute have to do with Serbia's territorial integrity?

What doe's the name dispute have to do with Fyrom's illegal recognition of Kosovo?

It is very convenient for Fyrom's politicians to hide the reasons for their actions behind assumed pressures from external powers(never name them).

The truth is Fyrom like Kosovo are artificial states which were created by the West to be the thorns on Serbia and Greece and be used when the right conditions emerge.

The truth is Gruevksi's VMRO government is petty, stupid, Bulgaro-nationalistic and engage in petty, immature gesture politics as dictated by their EU and US masters.
Apart from Greece ,Gruevski has unsettled issues with Bulgaria and possibly with Serbia.

His newly-found freindship with the Albanians won't last long.The Albanian's won't settle for second best in Fyrom.Time is with their side.

i wonder who takes decisions in Skopje anymore, Slavs or maybe Albanians?
(Nikos, 21 October 2009 16:24)

Actually the Albanians do. Ever since the war in 2001 (which we were winning by the way) the UN made us include the Albanians in the government, military and all institutions. Well, that opened a Pandora's box, as if the Macedonian govt wasn't corrupt enough, now we have Albanian terrorists, drug dealers and criminals in our government. The Albanians in the government get what they want politically through threats. The slavs of Macedonia are powerless, and usually too sad about everything to do anything. Macedonians just cry and drink coffee while the Albanians slowly take over.

It would make much more sense for us to ally with the Serbs and Greeks, but our government cares only about the money (which the Albanian mafias have lots and lots of) and the people don't care about politics enough to make a difference, plus, if you say anything bad about Albanians publicly in the border regions you'll get shot.

So on behalf of the Macedonian Orthodox Slavs, I apologize for the actions of the Albanians in Macedonia that Milosevic placed there, as well as our own slav government officials that get paid by those Albanians.

Silence....what more can you expect of Skopje? they should be ashamed of their selves, they have become just a token of USA, i wonder who takes decisions in Skopje anymore, Slavs or maybe Albanians?

As an Albanian here it breaks my heart to see Serbs and Macedonians quarrel over the Albanian matter. Let me just present our side of the story to calm the waters somehow.

It's true that 90% of Albanians migrated to Kosovo from Albania during Tito's time and then under Milosevic's master plan they were sent to Macedonia. We still hate you will all of our hearts and want to grab all the land we can from you.

What you should is exterminate all the Albanians, if possible, like Greece did after WWII. See Greece has no Albanian question nowadays.

If it weren't for the name issue Greece, Macedonia and Serbia would be part of a powerful Orthodox alliance and would have quashed the Albanian issue. So my suggestion is for the Skopians here to get over the name issue, rename yourselves to Vardarians to appease the Greeks, rejoin Serbia and then refocus all of your energies on hating the Albanians again. Maybe send a couple of millions to Turkey in population exchanges. It pains us to see you divided.

Great job fyrom have a happy marriage with albanians. Please don't beg Serbia for help the day you have problems.

(Darko.....

Darko i see a very dark future for people like you. Always complaining about Albanians. Anyway i'm happy that some of you realise and accepts the fact that you're slavs.Now tell to you're leaders to change the Country name and make peace with Greece. And remeber that without the albanians there, you would'nt have a country. Try to show some respect to them and you'll be respected by them.Is very disturbing your statement about the albanians getting involved in the country institutions as something negative. Pehaps for you will be more just, something like the BiH version of convivence.If you want separation with the Albanians just aked that, i'm sure the albanians there will not miss you very much.

Code of silence
- is usually either kept because of threat of force, or danger to oneself, or being branded as a traitor or an outcast within the unit or organisation
- one wonders what is FYROM's ruling governments reason?

Maybe the Serbian government should 100% back and push Greece in its stance with regards name of the republic to the south of Serbia. Serbia could to parapharase Chashule;
"had no other choice, as it was essential to our country for FYROM to accept the name agreed with UN at the fall of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and its successor, Serbia, as a state obligation till approved by Greece"

The truth is Gruevksi's VMRO government is petty, stupid, Bulgaro-nationalistic and engage in petty, immature gesture politics as dictated by their EU and US masters.
Apart from Greece ,Gruevski has unsettled issues with Bulgaria
(Leonidas,
How can Gruevski be BOTH “Bulgaro-nationalistic” and yet has has unsettled issues with Bulgaria?
How Slaves could have become “Macedonians” when the name Macedonia was not ever used in the Middle Ages?
Why Serbia ever recognized Macedonia under that name? Well because Macedonizm was a Serbian invention in order to estrange the Macedonian Bulgarians from their mother country. As a result we had several wars and finally a black hole.
To achieve a strong front against the Islamic influence on the Balkans Greece and Serbia can’t DO it without Bulgaria. And to attract it in their camp they have to show understanding that for us Macedonia is what Cyprus is for Greece and Montenegro for the Serbs.

The Macedonian decision will only come back to haunt them, not today or tomorrow, but somewhere through the pages of history.

Darko i see a very dark future for people like you. Always complaining about Albanians.
Try to show some respect to them and you'll be respected by them. Is very disturbing your statement about the albanians getting involved in the country institutions as something negative
(TheONE, 21 October 2009 21:18)

Well, I see a dark future for the people of Macedonia if the Albanian dominance continues. And yes, it is negative when politicians like Menduh Taci say “change the flag, change the national anthem and make Albanian the second language or Cao! Arrivederci Macedonia!” If you’re Albanian, you’re probably from Albania proper or Kosovo where they don’t shoot each other during elections and stab young Macedonian boys for walking down the street. I don’t care where you’re from, it’s hard to respect a people who have no respect for your country or you or your culture even though they live in it and with it.

Please explain how Milosevic is guilty of your government's bad decisions?
The man has been dead for years now and you sound just like an Albanian and blame him for all your problems.
You are the only ones who made the mess. Nobody forced you so please explain to us how is it that Milosevic is guilty here?
(Peggy, 21 October 2009 21:51)

I never said he was guilty of the government’s decisions. I said he placed many of the Kosovar Albanians into Macedonia in the first place. You want to argue that? Kosovo was your problem no one else’s. Macedonia was actually quite peaceful until the war and Milosevic kicked all the militant fundamentalist Albanians into Macedonia where they started trouble almost immediately. So no, we didn’t make any mess you did. That is why the Macedonians are looking to the West because everyone creates messes for us. We are a small and weak country who threatens no one yet everyone threatens us because they want the land. I am actually pro-Serbian but people like you are not good for anything. Keep defending Milosevic he was an angel. I’m glad your not a politician.
BTW how can you blame the common Macedonian people? What, you expect them to riot in the streets because of Kosovo? Riot for Serbia? When has Serbia ever rioted for us? The people are poor and have to worry about feeding their families you must live in a fantasy world. Maybe if the unemployment rate wasn’t 40% then they would have the piece of mind to do something about the Government’s stance on Kosovo. Most Macedonians love Serbia, they watch Pink TV and know every turbo folk song, but Serbs still always have a problem with us every time the government does something they dislike. Don’t take your frustration out on me, I am no lover of Albanians or a supporter of independent Kosovo, but you should heed your own advice, stop blaming us for Serbia’s problems . Plus, did you forget that Crna Gora recognized Kosovo before Macedonia?

ALBANIANS MAKE UP 25% OR LESS OF MACEDONIA’S POPULATION NOT 40%. THAT IS A NATIONALIST HALLUCINATION.

Darko, you have a HUGE chip on your shoulder.
Milosevic did not send any Albanians to Macedonia. They chose to cross over to your side because you WELCOMED them. You did not need to keep them. You could've sent them as soon as practical but if you chose to keep them than it's your own fault. Besides, it's not the Albanians from Kosovo who are making demands, you poor misguided fool, it's your own home grown Albanians there. Don't blame Milosevic or anyone else for your mess.
I am not defending Milosevic, but I am just telling you how it is.
Face it, you made the mess yourselves. Why the heck should Serb riot in the street for people who have denounced them and seceded? What loyalty do you expect?
When the war broke out in Yugoslavia Macedonian women started protesting and demanding that their sons be released from Yugoslav army and sent home. You showed disloyalty to Serbs first so don't you dare come here trying to blame the Serbs for your misery.

So on behalf of the Macedonian Orthodox Slavs, I apologize for the actions of the Albanians in Macedonia that Milosevic placed there, as well as our own slav government officials that get paid by those Albanians.
(Darko P, 21 October 2009 20:08)

Please explain how Milosevic is guilty of your government's bad decisions?
The man has been dead for years now and you sound just like an Albanian and blame him for all your problems.

You wanted to suck up to the US and thought by doing what they tell you would be OK. You're right about choosing wrong friends, but that was YOUR choice not Milosevic's. He never told you to separate in the first place. What did you think you were getting with idependence?
Then instead of realising you made a mistake in the first place you piled on more mistakes like recognising Kosovo which led you to this mistake.

Don't you dare blame anyone else but your own people. Without people's will it would've never got this far. You are the only ones who made the mess. Nobody forced you so please explain to us how is it that Milosevic is guilty here?

"The next time Skoplje put it's hand out to the West, it would have been drawn back empty. It is not for the love of Albanians, believe me.
(svojgazda"

Believe me, we know and are under no illusions about Slav 'love' for Non - Slavs!!!

FYROM should NEVER have of recognized Kosovo. How will they defend their borders when Albanians in FYROM call for independence? Just ask Slovakia, Spain, Cyprus, Romania. They (FYROMIANS) offened their own country more than they offended Serbia. Maybe I am wrong.... FYROMIANS are considering donating land to Albania.

In the end Albos aren't concerned without FYROM as they will be the majority very soon. FYROMIANS are being tossed around like a rag doll by Albos!

Dear All,
All the time that I read your comments here, I see how shortseeing the ballcan people are. There are all around the World going on ideas of making alliances and unions, even China and Japan is very probably that they will make their Union (sworn enemies I can say). While all these small balcan countries hate each other and never get to the point of cooperation and cuting the barriers of regional development. Instead of thinking the ballcan leaders to make a regional alliance (called as you wish, Ballcan Union) or make all neccesary steps to join EU a.s.a.p. they just stick to old problems and speak about nationalism just to take votes and to stay in power, for poor people that they suffer who cares... shame on ballcan politics, shame on yung people who supports the ideas of racism and distinctions on etnic origin. Today we are on the process of globalization and respecting each other is the only way to get and to buld a better world for all of us.
Peace to All!

Let's be perfectly brutal about this, Macedonian Government does not have balls.
We can discuss why and how but the fact is that. Albanians are the only ones who can gain from this fiasco.

"the fact that Maceonians are the only friends on the balkans that Serbia has."
Dan

Wishfull thinking! Serbia has good relations with most its neighbours. They could be better with some but overall they are exelent with Romania, Greece, Slovenia and the Republic of Srpska. How many true friends do the albanians have? Recognizing Kosovo does not mean they are your friends. You actually think countries would recognize Kosovo unless they had something to gain from it? Montenegro and Macedonia are two examples. No recognition, no EU/American aid!
Albanians are probably the only people in the world with no true friends. You have to understand the reason why the US and some EU states support an independent Kosovo.

"Besieging Russia is the main reason that led [George W.] Bush to support Kosovo's independence"
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/independent-kosovo-a-minefield-not-a-triumph/135623.aspx?storypage=2

And albanians thought they had friends!

Albanians are probably the only people in the world with no true friends
well,even with not any true friend,we manage to be a big problem for you slaves,do't we?

Zoti

You should be ashamed to say that for a country (Greece)that is providing food and homes for hundreds of thousands of your countrymen as we speak. But then what more can you expect from albanians than bite the hand that feeds them?
(Nikos, 22 October 2009 16:52)

Nikos, what food are you talking about the food the Albanian migrants earned with their sweat? What does that have to do with the extermiantion of the Cham population in Epirus?
Do you want us to be grateful to you like you are grateful to us for helping you liberate your country from the Turks?

Contrary to what you believe and say Albanians live and die by their code of honor we just don't appreciate backstabbing and if there's one thing Greeks are known throughout their history for is exactly that, BAKSTABBING.

If the Greeks and the Slavs did the honorable thing when you won the Balkan Wars against the Turks and left Albanians within their natural borders and not try to divide our lands amongst yourselves there wouldn't be none of these problems today.
Instead you did and are reaping what you sowed 100 years ago.

The final act has not been played yet. Stay tuned.

Let us be clear once and for all we did not pass the borders the borders passed us. Kosovo is Albania period. Kosovo is 90% Albanian and lets take it for what it is. If you want to go back in history who came from where and should go back lets take all slavs back to Russia where they came from starting with the Serbs.

Besides, it's not the Albanians from Kosovo who are making demands, you poor misguided fool, it's your own home grown Albanians there
Face it, you made the mess yourselves. Why the heck should Serb riot in the street for people who have denounced them and seceded? What loyalty do you expect?
When the war broke out in Yugoslavia Macedonian women started protesting and demanding that their sons be released from Yugoslav army and sent home. You showed disloyalty to Serbs first so don't you dare come here trying to blame the Serbs for your misery.
(Peggy, 22 October 2009 13:31)

Actually, many of the Kosovo Albanians stayed and they are connected very intricately between the ones in Kosovo and in Macedonia, so yes they are making demands.
Now this conversation is turning to something else. Macedonia did not secede from Serbia we seceded from Communist Yugoslavia. If you want to get into the Yugoslav Army, I’m pretty sure Serbian women wanted their sons sent home too. In fact, the rate of draft dodgers in Belgrade in the 1990s was close to 90% so what you brought up is totally pointless and has no bearing when it comes to anything what so ever.

Anyways, Macedonians and Serbs will always get along no matter what the neo-politicians on here say. We go to the same churches, drink rakija together and sing the same songs. Either our government will get smarter and Greece, Macedonia and Serbia will have a strong alliance together and our government wont have to be scared of the Albanians any more, or our government will get us all killed. We'll see what happens, but either way, Macedonia and Serbia have much history together, Tsar Stefan Dusan was crowned King of all Serbs and Greeks in Skopje, Ohrid was a major center of the Serbian Empire, we both fought against the Germans and the Turks together and the first Chetniks were Pro-Serbian Macedonians. These are things that will survive history, "Macedonia establishes diplomatic ties with Kosovo" will not.

Maybe the Serbian government should 100% back and push Greece in its stance with regards name of the republic to the south of Serbia. Serbia could to parapharase Chashule;
"had no other choice, as it was essential to our country for FYROM to accept the name agreed with UN at the fall of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and its successor, Serbia, as a state obligation till approved by Greece"
(Princip, Gracanica, KiM, Srbija, 21 October 2009 14:48)

No maybe about it. Definitely. Back Greece. Why on earth did Serbia ever recognise Macedonia in this present name? Why not back Greece on this on in the first place?
Here is a bunch of people saying bye bye Serbia, we don't want you any more and Serbia still gives them what they want.

Why oh why?

'Macedonians just cry and drink coffee while the Albanians slowly take over. --DARKO

"SLOWLY"???? LOL unlikely! :)

"And albanians thought they had friends!
(MikeC"

You see, that's the whole point. We Albanians know who our friends are...Albanians..only!! It's you Serbs who thought Christianity bonded you with Europe or the US. Or, that Draza M./Cetniks were allies of the west and the west would come to your Christian Serbia's rescue. lolol..Totally Unlikely!!

Darko P
unfortunately thats what happens if you get the albanians in the government. they dont settle with that they only wanna take more and more. I thought Skopje was smarter than that and also your government has alienated Serbia and Greece. Anyway i am glad some people in Skopje like you understand who will benefit by all this...

I have said many times, Serbia recognizing FYROM under the name 'Macedonia' is not only stupid, but treasonous. All this does is upset Greece, a very good ally, and keep the traitors in FYROM happy. It is completely unproductive as they jab the knife further into our backs.

great iliria 2015 what goes around comses around

I have stoped being surprised by FYROMs decisions years ago, but I wonder how they actually think???

Do they think that the US and NATO will help them? When the Albanians in FYROM,Kosovo and Albania that want to steal half the area known as FYROM?????
Talking of playing the wrong card, they (NATO and the US) will back the Albanians and what will remain of the country so called "Macedonia"?

Never mind, FYROMIANs with their sucking up to NATO ideas will get whats coming to them, but hey! They can use their newly issued Bulgarian passports to travel and move freely into the EU and make FYROM even more albanian!

what's the issue? cut off relations with macedonia, that's all there is to it.

Darko,
Tha fast majority of Macedonians WANTED to be part of Bulgaria in 1913. My greandparents and hundreds of thousands of others came to Bulgaria running from Greek and Seerbian terror!
The Serbian refusal to honor the Serbo-Bulgarian treaty of 1912 caused several wars.
The Debulgarization of Macedonia almost succeded. Are you happy with the results?
Greece did realize its mistake, and now we see an incredable Greek-Bulgarian reconciliation! It is time Serbia reconsiders!

FYROM sucks big time!

Tsar Stefan Dusan was crowned King of all Serbs and Greeks in Skopje, Ohrid was a major center of the Serbian Empire, we both fought against the Germans and the Turks together and the first Chetniks were Pro-Serbian Macedonians. These are things that will survive history, "Macedonia establishes diplomatic ties with Kosovo" will not.
(Darko P., 22 October 2009 20:33)

So you admit that Macedonia was part of Serbia at one time. Then why not continue to be in some sort of federation with the Serbs if you like the Serbs so much.

Please tell that garbage to someone who hasn't seen first hand what Macedonians think of Serbs. I have personally been to Macedonian functions where anti Serb songs were sung. I have witnessed Macedonians supporting Bosnian Muslims and Croatians at demonstrations in Australia during the 90s war. Now any Serb witnessing any of this will get it that Macedonian don't like Serbs and would rather buddy up to anyone else and throw their support for anyone else.

I have seen all this. You cannot tell me it didn't happen. You guys told Serbs to get lost first and then you come here telling me how Serbs should've rioted in the streets in support of you.
It is not Serbia's fault that Albanians are causing trouble for you. They set out to cause trouble for everyone else too. Montenegro is not safe either. They will cause trouble there soon enough and want a chunk of their territory as well. Should Montenegrins blame Serbs for that too?
Are you saying that Serbia should not have tried to protect Serbs of Kosovo and just sit still while Albanians kept terrorising them?
War happened and refugees left Kosovo. This includes Serbian refugees as well.
If you didn't want refugees you should've done what Croatia did. Let them pass through on their way to somewhere else. You cannot blame Serbia for your inability to control your own country.

Maybe one day Serbia and Macedonia will have good relations, but Macedonia has to stop stabbing Serbia in the back first.

Macedonia as a Slav state will not exist in 30 years so who cares what they think. The way things are going it will be part of Greater Albania.

There are a lot of hotheads here especially from the Serbian side. A lot of blame is being put on the Macedonian (whatever you want to call them is not my affair) people for selling out the Serbian people and Serbian Kosovo. The fact is that what Darko has said is true. Maco's love Serbian music, culture, Serbia itself and don't have any problems with the Serbian people. The govt in Skopje sings to a different tune and the tune played by US/NATO/Brussels. TO my fellow Serbian posters what do you expect from Macedonia and the Macedonian government when the Serbian government has clearly sold out Kosovo? What is it that you expect from Macedonia which is smalled and weaker and has problems that we can't even dream of. Please differentiate between government and people.

yes we have good relations with Bulgaria because we are civilized and we live in 2010, not because we are sorry of debulgarization.But we can never forget the pogrom of greeks in eastern Rumelia in 1878 the bulgarazation attempt of 1904-1908...

There was never a pogrom i Eastern Roumelia! There has always been a small Greek community there, and it is well integrated!
The traagedy came in 1885 when Serbia attacked Bulgaria after the Reunification with E. Roumelia without being provoked in any way! The Serbs were defeated but a wound was opened
The only time the Balkan countryes were really successful was in the First Balkan War, when with a combined effored the Ottomans were kicked out of the Balkans. It may be only a footnote that it was the Bulgarian army that crushed the balwark of the Turkish Army infront of their capital!
And it was tragic that the Balkan league did not last. Bulgaria really attacked Greece because it supported the Serbian ocupation of today's Macedonia.
After that everything went ugly. Its unwise to count whetehr Greeks slaughtered more Bulgarians or the other way arround.
The good thing is that the Greeks have reconsidered about the debulgarization though Macedonization! Let's not forget that it was the Greek government that first introuduced the "Macedonian' language thought the so called "Abeceder" in the 20-s. (Indeed they thried s similar tacktoic with the so-called Pomak language (for the Muslimized Bulgarians i Eastern Thrace)The Serbs now see how absurde the creation of new languages (Bosnian, Montenegrin etc.) is. Nobody has thied yet to creat a Creaty, or Cypriot...
Now Greeks realized how counter-productive the Macedonization was. If the Serbs too realize it, the Balkan league could be restaured.
I was one of the many in BG who opposed NATO bombing and the recognition of Kosovo. But unless Serbia changes its attitude towards Bulgaria it will always push it in the oposit camp. And that is no good for anyone! Victories prove temporary, distrust last longer!

Usually those that are ashamed of what they've done keep silent.

And to attract it in their camp they have to show understanding that for us Macedonia is what Cyprus is for Greece and Montenegro for the Serbs.
(BG, 22 October 2009 13:32)

That's not true. The Greeks in Cyprus actually WANT to be part of Greece and Montenegro and Serbia were at one time ONE country. Macedonia and Bulgaria were never part of the same country other than when Nazi-allied Bulgaria annexed it for a couple years and most Macedonians would rather die than be part of Bulgaria.

The insolence of the Albanian panel on this site knows no bounds. I have only one comment on all that, you should pray to your God that we Slavs are not united or we would not have Albanian problem.

People from FYRoM should not give us false exuses. If they are not happy with their VMRO government they should take it to the streets and not vote for this government over and over again.

Zoti

You should be ashamed to say that for a country (Greece)that is providing food and homes for hundreds of thousands of your countrymen as we speak. But then what more can you expect from albanians than bite the hand that feeds them? And Where is that albanian genocide that you are referring too? Why hasent anyone recognized it, not even your own country? Seems most albs here suffer from a complex of inferiority.

@BG.

Greece did not realize anything. On the contrary Bulgaria had to step down and it did. Now the past is over and both countries realized that only a future together is possible.

@Darko

Greeks rioted for serbs without demanding anything (Bombings, nato in kosovo etc). Greece didnt recognize Kosovo and again didnt demand nothing. And if serbia has a non slavic friend that is greece, even countries have no friends but interests. And those times greek/serbian interests walked hand in hand. Now look the greek investements in serbia (and whole Balkan) the only Country that tries to cut a friends hand is FYROM. Or didnt greeks invest in skopje? You guys only want and want and want regardless towards who, if its greece or serbia doesnt matter.

Albanians are probably the only people in the world with no true friends
well,even with not any true friend,we manage to be a big problem for you slaves,do't we?
(lili, 22 October 2009 21:57)
Why You haven't friends?? mayby becouse You started wars in neighbour countries?? So - any neighbour country like aggresive nation.

Look at Hungarians - millions of them live in neighgbour countries - but in any country they started separatist war. They fight for they rights peacefully, not with AK-47 and bombs. So - nobody in Serbia attacked Hungarians or send police against Hungarians and Vojvodina live in peace and is real multiethnic place.

Bulgaria never wanted any land not populated by their own people (I exclude the rediculous occupation of Tasos and Samotrace during WWII. That was rediculed by Bulgarian peoples folklaor.)
But in 1913 it could not abandon Ohrid. Out of about 30 Bulgarian generals during WWI 8 were born in Ohrid!!! (saddly two of them crushed a Serbian uprising in Nish area in 1917!)
Two Bulgarian prime ministers were born of that time were born in today's Macedonia!
The sad thing is that the Albanians will take over today's Macedonia. When I go to Ohrid I may agrue with some of the locals all the time, but after two or three rakias we find that we understand ourselves perfectly. But when I go to Struga, I understand nothing "miro pafshem" "fali minderit" etc. whatever it means!The anti-Bulgarian poison injected in the minds of the Macedonians during Yugoslavia's time will evaporate when it will be too late!
Then it will be as it always has been. Tho "Others" will take the territory, we will take the population! And it will be even more sad that most Bulgarians will blame the Serbs for it!

This action by Skopje seems to be as a result of Albanian agression.What would happen to West Macedonia if the Albanian hornets nest is disturbed? Skopje thinks we better try and stay on the Albanians good side or else thye might start trouble like in 2001.They don't have to stay on Srbija's good side since we are not theartening trouble if we don't get our way.Macedonia will at some point in the future be tested when the Albanians inevitably want MORE.

FYROM, has to follow its national interests. Bordering Albania to the west, Kosova to the north and with a quarter of its population of Albanian ethnicity, they have to certainly take into consideration the Albanian factor.
Besides they already recognized Kosova, what's the fuss about when they establish political ties.

The threats from some of the Serb members towards FYROM are so childish.

well,even with not any true friend,we manage to be a big problem for you slaves,do't we?
(lili, 22 October 2009 21:57)

How right you are, indeed a big problem for the EU!

BG
yes we have good relations with Bulgaria because we are civilized and we live in 2010, not because we are sorry of debulgarization.But we can never forget the pogrom of greeks in eastern Rumelia in 1878 the bulgarazation attempt of 1904-1908, the attack of Bulgaria in second balkan war and the second bulgarazation attempt of 1941-44. Nazi-aligned Bulgarian occupation forces persecuted the local Greek population and settled Bulgarian colonists in their occupation zone in eastern Macedonia and western Thrace.And dont also forget the 15000 executed in Drama. If someone has realized its mistakes that is Bulgaria,so dont look back because its not to your interest..

"Bulgaria really attacked Greece because it supported the Serbian occupation of today's Macedonia."

Do you really believe that? the truth is Bulgaria attacked everybody to gain more land but you lost. you tried to do the same in 1st and 2nd world wars but you lost again.

"What is it that you expect from Macedonia which is smalled and weaker and has problems that we can't even dream of. Please differentiate between government and people."
(milan2, 24 October 2009 11:33)

But Milan, it's the people who are against the Serbs, well people in Australia at least.

I have witnessed Bosnian Muslims and Croatians demonstrating in the streets of Melbourne against the Serbs. Guess who joined them?
Yes, Macedonians with their Macedonian flags waving.
When the Serbs took to the streets to demonstrate it was the Greeks who joined them with their Greek flags waving.
So you tell me now if the Macedonians of Australia have any reason to be afraid because they are a small country and join the Croatians and Bosnian Muslims in their demonstrations?

I have been present at some functions when they played anti Serbian and Greek songs. How are these fords for you? Serbia leave us alone, Greece leave us alone. These are the words from a song they were singing and I have heard it with my own ears.

So, don't come here and tell me that Macedonians love Serbs. Not in Australia they don't anyway. What have the Macedonians done to show their solidarity with Serbs?
I have spoken to Macedonians way before the war who didn't say they were Yugoslav but only Macedonian and so I asked them to tell me the name of their president. They were not happy with me.

I have seen too much here and heard too much from the Macedonian community to know that they are anti Serb and pro Croatian and Bosnian Muslim. Have you witnessed those demonstrations in Melbourne?

I have personally been to Macedonian functions where anti Serb songs were sung. I have witnessed Macedonians supporting Bosnian Muslims and Croatians at demonstrations in Australia during the 90s war.
-Peggy

Australia huh? I thought we were talking about MACEDONIA and SERBIA not rich diaspora nationalists dettached from the reality of their former homes. The fact that you brought up the 90s War is proof enough of your dettachment. In Australia don't you guys also fight Croats and Bosnians at tennis and volleyball matches? No wonder you have that view of Macedonians. You've probably never been to Serbia or Macedonia. Try going there, then you'll see that Macedonians in MACEDONIA like Serbs because that's what we're talking about, Macedonians in Macedonia not Australians.