Attacks on gay activist in Ljubljana

On a certain level, I find gay pride parade afficionados to be troublemakers because clearly, their parades are not welcome in most of Southeastern Europe. Your not the victim if you know your actions will incite violence. It's like having a pro-USA parade in Belgrade and flaunting my Americaness in the idea that it generates greater tolerance. It's just troublemaking, period.

It's not like having an American pride parade in Belgrade, because Americans are not citizens in Serbia. The sponsors of GLBT parades are citizens in the countries in which they march, with constitutional rights to freedom of association and civil rights to protection from violence. Worldwide, visability has been a proven tool towards acceptance and tolerance, not just for sexuality, but for ethnicity and race. The more people you know from a targeted minority, the more others realize that they are ordinary people with ordinary needs, the more the majority understands its responsibility in ensuring equal and fair treatment for all members of its society - including those with which it might not agree. The true test of a civilized, democratic society is the way in which it relates to the vulnerable and marginalized, not the powerful and popular.

Open Cafe is a very peacefull place, full of nice people that deserve just the same rights than any other citizen in Ljubljana. It is an international shame that in sLOVEnia this kind of stuff happen and I hope the police caught as soon as possible the 8 cowardly involved in such a abusive and stupid attack.

"Your not the victim if you know your actions will incite violence."

WHAT?!? Will you also say that to the next rape victim? "It is your own fault - you shouldn't dress sexy!"

Whatever some bigots feel about the issue, the moment they harm another person, they are clearly in the wrong. End of discussion.
--

"The sponsors of GLBT parades are citizens in the countries in which they march, with constitutional rights to freedom of association and civil rights to protection from violence"

Well yes they are citizens, no one is saying they are not. But so are people with other sexual fetishes and in the interest of the greater public (emphasis - children). If say bondage sex enthusiasts had a parade it would probably be stopped. Why? They are allowed to have bondage sex, its not against the law but in the interests of the greater society this "sexualization" has to be limited as it may offend the majority. Most people don't have a problem with gay people but they don't want their sexual preference rammed down their throats in the form of parades etc. That is why there are ratings on films that deal with legal adult content and have adult themes. These movies are fine if only adults are around that choose to watch these films but lets remember the streets don't belong to a minority group, or just adults. There are kids around, old people etc. By having a parade you are violating their rights. I dont see your average serbian christian going into the bedrooms of a gay couple and monitoring their sex, yet these parades ram a sexual preference down the throats of people who couldn't care less about what happens in anyone's bedroom and choose not to expose their kids to such sexual topics.

Whatever some bigots feel about the issue, the moment they harm another person, they are clearly in the wrong. End of discussion.
--
(Jan Andersen, DK, 26 June 2009 19:56)

Add to the insult, they attacked a PRIVATE PROPERTY. I can say about any public event "please confirm to other's taste", there is no such requirement in a private cafe as long as the owners agree. On private premises you can do what you like as long as no law is broken and the owners agree.

On the other side: breaking in and disturb the peace on private property (what these eight geniuses did) is a crime by itself.

I am surprised for Ljubljana tough.

I'm a bit surprised to see this kind of nasty reaction in slovenia (my naivete?)but lgbt people must face such attacks around the world, and specifically in the balkans. this week we watched a new film covering the sarajevo mini-pogrom from last sept -- even though i knew all about it and even wrote about it, it was still shocking to watch unfold.(strong film!)

in blgd we have seen numerous attacks ag. the lgbt community.

in zagreb i was just reading a report in our Bay Times: "The police violated human and civil rights on multiple occasions... counter-demonstrators were allowed to chant: 'Kill, kill faggots' and 'Faggots to concentration camps'(!)...police took no action ag. people who spit and threw things..."

so it really doesn't get much worse than that. lgbt people are still acceptable targets by "normal" people who can pretend they are not bigoted but just holding up their religion, family values, bla bla bla. i've warned many times about the power of hate speech and what it means and what it leads to, and we see it here with so many examples.

good luck with future demonstations/exhibits/parades. people need to pay special attention to security, and also to building support frm non-lgbt frnds and allies. there is some strength in numbers and alliance building.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(pride wk end)

"Your not the victim if you know your actions will incite violence."

WHAT?!? Will you also say that to the next rape victim? "It is your own fault - you shouldn't dress sexy!"

Whatever some bigots feel about the issue, the moment they harm another person, they are clearly in the wrong. End of discussion.
--

On a certain level, I find gay pride parade afficionados to be troublemakers because clearly, their parades are not welcome in most of Southeastern Europe. Your not the victim if you know your actions will incite violence. It's like having a pro-USA parade in Belgrade and flaunting my Americaness in the idea that it generates greater tolerance. It's just troublemaking, period.

It's not like having an American pride parade in Belgrade, because Americans are not citizens in Serbia. The sponsors of GLBT parades are citizens in the countries in which they march, with constitutional rights to freedom of association and civil rights to protection from violence. Worldwide, visability has been a proven tool towards acceptance and tolerance, not just for sexuality, but for ethnicity and race. The more people you know from a targeted minority, the more others realize that they are ordinary people with ordinary needs, the more the majority understands its responsibility in ensuring equal and fair treatment for all members of its society - including those with which it might not agree. The true test of a civilized, democratic society is the way in which it relates to the vulnerable and marginalized, not the powerful and popular.

Open Cafe is a very peacefull place, full of nice people that deserve just the same rights than any other citizen in Ljubljana. It is an international shame that in sLOVEnia this kind of stuff happen and I hope the police caught as soon as possible the 8 cowardly involved in such a abusive and stupid attack.

"The sponsors of GLBT parades are citizens in the countries in which they march, with constitutional rights to freedom of association and civil rights to protection from violence"

Well yes they are citizens, no one is saying they are not. But so are people with other sexual fetishes and in the interest of the greater public (emphasis - children). If say bondage sex enthusiasts had a parade it would probably be stopped. Why? They are allowed to have bondage sex, its not against the law but in the interests of the greater society this "sexualization" has to be limited as it may offend the majority. Most people don't have a problem with gay people but they don't want their sexual preference rammed down their throats in the form of parades etc. That is why there are ratings on films that deal with legal adult content and have adult themes. These movies are fine if only adults are around that choose to watch these films but lets remember the streets don't belong to a minority group, or just adults. There are kids around, old people etc. By having a parade you are violating their rights. I dont see your average serbian christian going into the bedrooms of a gay couple and monitoring their sex, yet these parades ram a sexual preference down the throats of people who couldn't care less about what happens in anyone's bedroom and choose not to expose their kids to such sexual topics.

Whatever some bigots feel about the issue, the moment they harm another person, they are clearly in the wrong. End of discussion.
--
(Jan Andersen, DK, 26 June 2009 19:56)

Add to the insult, they attacked a PRIVATE PROPERTY. I can say about any public event "please confirm to other's taste", there is no such requirement in a private cafe as long as the owners agree. On private premises you can do what you like as long as no law is broken and the owners agree.

On the other side: breaking in and disturb the peace on private property (what these eight geniuses did) is a crime by itself.

I am surprised for Ljubljana tough.

I'm a bit surprised to see this kind of nasty reaction in slovenia (my naivete?)but lgbt people must face such attacks around the world, and specifically in the balkans. this week we watched a new film covering the sarajevo mini-pogrom from last sept -- even though i knew all about it and even wrote about it, it was still shocking to watch unfold.(strong film!)

in blgd we have seen numerous attacks ag. the lgbt community.

in zagreb i was just reading a report in our Bay Times: "The police violated human and civil rights on multiple occasions... counter-demonstrators were allowed to chant: 'Kill, kill faggots' and 'Faggots to concentration camps'(!)...police took no action ag. people who spit and threw things..."

so it really doesn't get much worse than that. lgbt people are still acceptable targets by "normal" people who can pretend they are not bigoted but just holding up their religion, family values, bla bla bla. i've warned many times about the power of hate speech and what it means and what it leads to, and we see it here with so many examples.

good luck with future demonstations/exhibits/parades. people need to pay special attention to security, and also to building support frm non-lgbt frnds and allies. there is some strength in numbers and alliance building.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(pride wk end)