Mesić: Serbia must look after Albanians

"if they want Kosovo to remain in Serbia.”

First off Kosovo is Serbia until Serbia says otherwise. If the US/UK continue to refuse to recognize that Serbia has international recognized borders, that includes Kosovo, then partition it is. The ones to blame for partition is the rebel Albanians and primarily the Americans. You can't just do what you feel like and expect everyone else to go along. Funny how everyone is turning to Serbia and blaming them for Kosovos isolation and misery. Well, the US/UK alliance created this mess, now deal with it best you can.

I think it's to late for that. Kosovo will never be Serbian whatever people do or think. K-albanians have suffered for to long under serbian rule and we are doing very well on our own so I dont see no point in going back to Serbia.

You to talk oh dar Mr. Mesic - Croatia should not be allowed to join the EU until:

i) Constituent rights are returned to Serbs and constitution to be rewritten in order to reflect the reality of the ground in Croatia

ii) Full compensation and restitution for all damages are made

iii) Right of return

iv) Respect for ethnic minorties and the rule of law

v) Religious rights returned

vi) Language rights restored to areas that have minorities in them ie. Italian in Istria, Hungarian in Slavonia, Serbian in Dalmatia, Slavonia and other areas etc.

vii) Decentralization along true lines in Croatia ie. Istria, Dalmatia, Slavonia and Croatia proper (since you cannot digest a Krajina).

Can I name a few more things Mr. Mesic?

Mr. Mesic, Serbia does not tell you how to run Croatia so kindly keep you nose out of Serbia's affairs.
Who asked your opinion anyway?

Why do you feel the need to always butt in?
If you want to lecture anyone on how to treat their citizens, I suggest you start treating Serbs from Krajina a little better. Allow return and reconstruction of their property. Don't allow the threat of death to scare the Serbs away.

Now that would be something that you should be concentrating on. Forget Kosovo. It has NOTHING to do with you.

K-Albanians have a bitter history with Serbia which goes back for centuries. The problem is that both sides didn't make an effort to live with each other, however, the difference is that Serbia was represented by a state and gov, while Albanians were not and were always denied one.

In my opinion Serbia did not show any care and wisdom in dealing with Kosovo issue. Yugolsavia received billions from the west but Kosovo got an immaterial part of it. One only has to look at the road system in Kosovo to see how little was invested as compared to Serbia's. From 1989 to 1998 after the abolishment of the autonomy Kosovo's exports went from $373 million to only $27 million.

Now all of a sudden, Serbs agree with "more than autonomy", and "less than independence".

Well why did you support the abolishment of the autonomy from 1989 till 2000? How come the majority of serbs still feel Milosevic did nothing wrong and the actions of Serbian army in 1999 in Kosovo were of a normal nature?? Seems like Serbia is ready to negotiate only when it's losing ground. Why should Albanians trust the Serbs? What guarantees do we have that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years, abolish the autonomy and sends its army in Kosovo again?

To put it in the context of that old proverb "Kill me once, shame on you, kill me twice, shame on me".

So with one breath Mesic speaks as if Serbia can hold onto Kosovo and with another he dismisses it.
Talk about doublespeak.

He wants to give Serbia some home truths, then why doesn't he be truthful himself?

About how Jugoslavija broke up and for the reasons why countries of the region recognised Kosovo? The second question is easy to answer - US pressure.

So fine, if you want to talk about reality, then be truthful and say the US is still a very important player in the international system and this is the reason why they recognised Kosovo.

It is not due to some populistic belief in former Yug brotherhood (and unity?) against Milosevic / Serbia.

"if they want Kosovo to remain in Serbia.”

First off Kosovo is Serbia until Serbia says otherwise. If the US/UK continue to refuse to recognize that Serbia has international recognized borders, that includes Kosovo, then partition it is.

If you think that will happen than good for you. Just to remind you.

Kosova has a
1. Goverment and Parlament
2. Its own police
3. its own constitution and institutions.
4. Its own security forces
5. And the foreign Embassies of the most powerfull nations in the world. Including liason (consulate) offices of Russia (yes Russia) Greece, Slovakia and (Yes) China. Even if I am to be neutral of whatever happens to kosova, I do know one thing. The Serbian goverment do not stand a chance.

“However, that is not our final goal. Our final goal is for all of Southeast Europe, especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia, to join the EU and to open up our borders like France and Germany, who were at war for hundreds of years,” Mesić said.

I agree with Mesic. All the countries of the Western Balkans should join the EU.

The Serbian goverment do not stand a chance.
Dulo

Well if the Serbian government don't stand a chance how come they have managed to convince 140 countries NOT to recognize Kosovo? How come they have managed to keep Kosovo out of the UN? Kosovo has a self proclaimed govenment that is NOT recognized by a majority of the world. Unfortunately for the Kosovo Albanians America and 22 european states can't dictate to everyone else what is right and wrong.

Demi,
just how well is Kosovo doing on it's own.

Being that i live in Canada and in the past i have visited Kosovo on numerous occasions. My parents took me to see Kosovo for the historical value and reference to Serbs dating back centuries.

Please tell me what Kosovo is like today. What is so different about Kosovo with out Serbia's influence.

Please please tell me, as i was planning a family vacation and i desire to know if it is safe today as it was under the former Jugoslavia.

Will i be able to walk down the street without worry?

Will i believe able to show my wife and kids where my ancestors came from?

Dulo,

Please check 1244. As long as 1244 is valid Kosovo is NOT a state!

We all know that!

The US has conquered and occupied Kosovo - they are not likely to change that in the near future.

Croatia was a cause of the spilt of YU - it is hypocritical to try to blame Milosevic alone. Milosevic did a lot of wrong - but he was not the only one.

Mircea, why should all of them make the same mistake we did? What is the EU? It's another Warszaw Pact, only lead by Germany! Let me tell everybody what EU brings: they close factories whose products are better and cheaper then theirs, they send the little entrepreneur out of bussines for not complying with "EU regulations", while the big corporations sell you expired and re-re-re-modified products! Yes, let the final few markets left in Europe come to the EU!They have no money so they need "the poor and wild eastern europeans that we will educate" to buy from them! This is EU!

Dream on Mircea!

Unbelievable!

Worry about your "own" country before you put your two cents in with (ours) Serbia! Last I checked Ivo was a bad boy not playing nice with Slovenia & he hasn't been too nice with the transplanted Serbs either.

What audacity!

Besides agreeing with him regarding Albanians, the last statement sounds like honesty-challenged. Wasn't him who was proud to be one of dismantlers of Yu?

And if the last statement is dishonest, we should not believe the rest what he is saying. If he would become the president of Serbia, there would be open war in Kosovo few weeks later. He is just an other bloody communist. If I don't trust anyone in Russia and Hungary with commie past, why should I trust commies in YU?

mesic:

Since you love albanians so much why don't you give them a piece of croatia and relocate entire Kososvo population there? what a joke when mesic is giving tadic advice! Tadic needs to be ashamed, really.

There really is no chance of partitioning Kosovo except for a functional one. We have already offered our Southern citizens self-rule and that's as far as it goes.

Kosovo will never become independent because that generally needs universal agreement and especially that of the sovereign nation so forget about it, independence is irreversibly blocked.

Now the interesting point here is that Mesic now talks about Serbia keeping Kosovo rather than Kosovo being independent because the bankrupt nations who once held 60% of the world GDP have recognised it. The world has changed and continues to change so it is becoming more evident that the former powers have a choice to fund this misguided idea of a black hole called Kosova or to save their pennies and negotiate with those holding the real power.

This statement coming from a Croat, the state which is responsible for Jasenovac concentration camp, and operation Storm. In other words, a state that was responsible for genocide. They have never apologized or been punished for Jasenovac, and were in fact rewarded by Tito for it.
As for operation Storm, well they celebrate that with a national holiday. When someone from such a state tries to lecture Serbs on how to treat minorities, that really is a sick joke. Serbia is the most multicultural and tolerant society in the Balkans, by far.
Mesic is the worst kind of opportunist.

denis:
"Why should Albanians trust the Serbs? What guarantees do we have that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years, abolish the autonomy and sends its army in Kosovo again?"

Please stop with the propaganda.

The army was sent in to crush uck terrorists (responsible for unnimaginable crimes) and protect civillians of Serbia! Kosovo is not yours.

I have a feeling that Mesic’s obsession by Serbia will never end.
This is the man who was boasting around how successful he was
while involved in dissolution of Yugoslavia and who openly stood by Tudjman's ustasa policy during the war. And yet, Mesic has guts to point finger at Milosevic and Serbia accusing only one side.
This is the man who speaks about border non-importance once we are in EU
while at the same time Croatia disputes with Slovenia over few km’s of sea border. Instead of keeping low profile he goes around and keep lectures on democracy. It would be really funny if it wasn't actually sad.
He is definitely the slimiest political creature in this part of the world.

While many Serbs supporters in here think that Milosevic still rules in Kosova, things in Kosova are changing for no return.
Come down check, what is the life like in Kosova and are there any signs of Serbia.
Talk to any Serbs and they will tell you that "Kosovo is Serbis" is something that belongs to past and a huge mistake.

Mesic is telling the truth but truth often hurts some Serbs that belong to repressive past.

"Come down check, what is the life like in Kosova and are there any signs of Serbia".
Olf

Ha ha ha! Have you been to Kosovo "Olf"? Let's see! There are hundreds of SERBIAN churches and monasteries. Are those Serbian signs enough for you?

“However, that is not our final goal. Our final goal is for all of Southeast Europe, especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia, to join the EU and to open up our borders like France and Germany, who were at war for hundreds of years,” Mesić said.

Maybe, just to clear the air, we could create several more borders (like Krajina, RS, Northern Kosovo) so that we can then join EU and open them up like France and Germany.
Our final goal could be to all join EU, "especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia",
and countries of former Croatia, and former Bosnia, etc. etc.

Wait a minute:

So Mesic first says something like "Serbs need to do this and this and this if they don't want to lose Kosovo", and then he follows it up with Kosovo's independence being a "reality".

Schizophrenic a little? I mean I'm more than happy to acknowledge the first part of his statement, but......

What guarantees do we have that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years, abolish the autonomy and sends its army in Kosovo again?
(Denis, 15 May 2009 16:16)

Few borderposts and a "Kosovo Republic" sign would not stop any dictator. See Kuwait and Saddam Hussein. The grave consequences of this campaign from Saddam's point of view won't make dead Kuwaitis happier.

Kosovo cannot go back to Serbia, since it already IS a part of Serbia.

when will you all understand this basic fact?

there is only some temporary occupation, it won´t last forever, and everybody involved should should know that...

seems like the K-albanians are given some time to cool their heads down, but in the end, there is no doubt to that, Serbia will prevail.

the law is stronger than stupid force.

some haven´t realized that yet.

they will.

"if they want Kosovo to remain in Serbia.”
Di they really? If Kosovo returns to Serbia it won't be Serbian politicians liiking after Kosovo. It will be also K-Albanian politicians taking part in governmet of Serbia? I bet no Serbian politician wants that.

Denis,

"Yugolsavia received billions from the west but Kosovo got an immaterial part of it. One only has to look at the road system in Kosovo to see how little was invested as compared to Serbia's."

Kosovo received a lot of financial support from all over the country (Yugoslavia), but local Kosovo Albanian elite mismanaged it.

Denis wrote: "K-Albanians have a bitter history with Serbia which goes back for centuries. The problem is that both sides didn't make an effort to live with each other, however, the difference is that Serbia was represented by a state and gov, while Albanians were not and were always denied one."

Ummm... Denis, lesson 1: Find a geography book, use your finger if you have to and look along the Adriatic sea, just above Greece. You will find a "state" called ALBANIA. Could the solution to this problem be ever so simple? Perhaps the K-Albanians have never opened a geography book or perhaps they have never heard that an Albanian state exists - it's called ALBANIA.

Geez!

Lesson 2 Denis: The class is now Old Proverbs instead of Geography. The proverb is not "kill me once shame on you, kill me twice shame on me" as you say. It is rather - Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".

On to lesson 3 Denis: This is a lesson in Biology. One cannot be killed twice - only once. Same with dying -one can only die once.

Brush up on these lessons Denis and next week if you pass the test, I may help with Intro to Logic and then lessons in History.

Geez!

Hajduk

"So Mesic first says something like "Serbs need to do this and this and this if they don't want to lose Kosovo", and then he follows it up with Kosovo's independence being a "reality". "

Mike, he meant "Serbia should have...after the war in order to keep Kosova." Now it's too late.

World Bank is next, then COE. Today the constitutional court was created, Serbian police started to work again, Biden is visiting. Things aren't as bad.

"Our final goal is for all of Southeast Europe, especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia, to join the EU and to open up our borders"

One can only wonder, why Croats made such effort to pull Yugoslavia apart... Wouldn't it have been better to join YU long ago as a part of Yugoslavia?

"Croatia should not be allowed to join the EU until:

i) Constituent rights are returned to Serbs and constitution to be rewritten in order to reflect the reality of the ground in Croatia

etc."

We have a saying here: 'The Constitution is not a suicide pact.' I have to assume the Croats believe the same thing.

'The world has changed and continues to change so it is becoming more evident that the former powers have a choice to fund this misguided idea of a black hole called Kosova or to save their pennies and negotiate with those holding the real power.'

It is in fact a matter of pennies, comparatively speaking - the population of Kosova is about the same as that of Sadr City, one section of Baghdad. (Serbia has about the same pop. as Baghdad as a whole.) Also, since Kosova is considerably friendlier, the money goes further - less has to be spent on security, and rebuilding.

It'll be a long time before we can't support Kosova.

Mesice comments over the break up of Yugoslavia and Milosevic are uncalled for and inaccurate. Stipe Mesic as one of the last rotating Presidents in the former Yugoslavia was direclty responsible for planning, directing and illegally importing military equipment to start the Croatian revolution in tacit compliance with Tudjman.

The return of Serbian refugess to Krajina has not occured, and the state of Serbia after the war took in the largest amount of refugees after the civil wars. Comments should be directed at the return of Serbian refugees to Croatia, period.

I hate repeating myself but I have to say it again. "Mr Mesic concentrate on what you will be telling Croatian mothers when their sons start returning home in body bags from Afghanistand and Pakistan soon- don't worry about Kosovo province, Serbia"

"Serbia must look after Albanians"

This means Serbia must look after the Albanians in Presevo Valley, Medvedja, Bujanovac, Sandjak etc... in southern Serbia today which very easy can become an issue as northeastern Kosovo and this part demand joining their homecontry Kosovo, (as Kashmiris demand to join Pakistan)
"Kosovo is independent and that's a reality"
He is addresing the Serb nationalistic radicals that the reality can not be avoided, sooner or later you will recognize this reality...If you plan on draging your reality don't play with the fate of 90.000 serbs stil living in Kosovo as Kosovars with Serbian origine...let them integrate, don't hold them back, later will be shame on you when you will recognize this reality and 1% (90.000) Kosovo Serbs will be left behind in integration ....

It's OK, Albanians will look after Serbs in Kosovo as well ;)

This from a guy who kicked out 300,000 Serbs from Croatia! He abdicated his right to look after anyone but Croats ...look at the number of minorities in that province er country. It is pitiful, and disgusting that his comments are even printed here.

"Serbia must look after Albanians" ? Nothing new here - UK and many others have been doin the same for time...

aaayyy:
One can only wonder, why Croats made such effort to pull Yugoslavia apart... Wouldn't it have been better to join YU long ago as a part of Yugoslavia?"
Julian wants Serbs to admit they TOO were responsible for the break of Yugoslavia.

Guys, both of you are wrong! Yugoslavia simply stood NO chance for surviving in DEMOCRATIC conditions. Because there was no common all-Yugoslavian public opinion. And there were no all-Yugoslavian parties. It was a mastodont doomed from its conception. The Croats wanted a divorce "at the night of the wedding". The Macedonians, the Montenegrins, the K-Albanians, the Vojvodina Hungarians etc. were never asked if they wanted to join Yugoslavia or not! Given a chance in 1918 non of them would have. In 1945 again nobody asked the various peoples if they wanted Yugoslavia to be restored. Insted some of them were offered lurks and perks at the expense of the Serbs. That was a lasting loss for Serbia but braught only a temporary lease of live to communist Yugoslavia. All this was irreparable by 1989. What the people of Yugoslavia failed to do is to agree on a divorce without errecting real borders! And the Serbs' fault was the double standard they so vividly believed: "Serbs all over former Yugoslavia were a "nation" with a right of self-determination. Others in Serbia (including Kosovo) were "minorities" with no such a right!

Can anyone tell me why Serbs absolutely deny to see their own faults in the break=up of Yugoslavia. Yes, the world knows others made the same mistakes, but that's not the point. This is about admitting (to yourselves and to the world) that you were wrong TOO. Think about that first before you start blaming the rest of the world for what happened. Now it is too late too start a discussion about Kosovo with stating that 'Kosovo will always be Serbian'. Maybe in your hearts, but not on my roadmap. Serbia really should have come up with offering Kosovo solutions decades before...

Furthermore I am deeply convinced that Kosovo was not an economical backwater during the days of Yugoslavia, just because Albanians lived there. Every country has lesser developed areas and it's also up to the people who live there to change things. From an economical point of view, Kosovo did not really have an ideal geographical situation in Yugoslavia, 'deep' south next to a then completely isolated Albania. Macedonia and southern Serbia weren't too developed eiter.

Let's face the fact that there are only bad solutions for the final status of Kosovo. Independence isn't going to be an economic succes for the K-Albanians, I'm afraid. Kosovo within Serbia wouldn't be such an ideal situation either. Differences between both sides will never disappear and the population of K-Albanians grows very fast, which would make problems even bigger...

Everybody who is able to read between the lines should understand that what Mesic is saying is an advise and signal to FYROM leadership. They should learn from the recent history and not the repeat the horrible mistakes of Serbian politicians. If FYROM government will copy and paste the Serbian methods(which they tried and experimented in several forms for a long time), this will have serious consequences for FYROM to join the EU family, which they want-contrary to the majority in Serbia. Mecis is well aware that Serbia has no chance to get KiM back. And clever Serbs too.

@Nik

Very interesting, but I wrote IN the break-up of Yugoslavia instead of FOR. By overlooking this one simple word you totally missed the point of what I tried to say. However, your comment was interesting to read.

"if they want Kosovo to remain in Serbia.”

First off Kosovo is Serbia until Serbia says otherwise. If the US/UK continue to refuse to recognize that Serbia has international recognized borders, that includes Kosovo, then partition it is. The ones to blame for partition is the rebel Albanians and primarily the Americans. You can't just do what you feel like and expect everyone else to go along. Funny how everyone is turning to Serbia and blaming them for Kosovos isolation and misery. Well, the US/UK alliance created this mess, now deal with it best you can.

I think it's to late for that. Kosovo will never be Serbian whatever people do or think. K-albanians have suffered for to long under serbian rule and we are doing very well on our own so I dont see no point in going back to Serbia.

Mr. Mesic, Serbia does not tell you how to run Croatia so kindly keep you nose out of Serbia's affairs.
Who asked your opinion anyway?

Why do you feel the need to always butt in?
If you want to lecture anyone on how to treat their citizens, I suggest you start treating Serbs from Krajina a little better. Allow return and reconstruction of their property. Don't allow the threat of death to scare the Serbs away.

Now that would be something that you should be concentrating on. Forget Kosovo. It has NOTHING to do with you.

"if they want Kosovo to remain in Serbia.”

First off Kosovo is Serbia until Serbia says otherwise. If the US/UK continue to refuse to recognize that Serbia has international recognized borders, that includes Kosovo, then partition it is.

If you think that will happen than good for you. Just to remind you.

Kosova has a
1. Goverment and Parlament
2. Its own police
3. its own constitution and institutions.
4. Its own security forces
5. And the foreign Embassies of the most powerfull nations in the world. Including liason (consulate) offices of Russia (yes Russia) Greece, Slovakia and (Yes) China. Even if I am to be neutral of whatever happens to kosova, I do know one thing. The Serbian goverment do not stand a chance.

You to talk oh dar Mr. Mesic - Croatia should not be allowed to join the EU until:

i) Constituent rights are returned to Serbs and constitution to be rewritten in order to reflect the reality of the ground in Croatia

ii) Full compensation and restitution for all damages are made

iii) Right of return

iv) Respect for ethnic minorties and the rule of law

v) Religious rights returned

vi) Language rights restored to areas that have minorities in them ie. Italian in Istria, Hungarian in Slavonia, Serbian in Dalmatia, Slavonia and other areas etc.

vii) Decentralization along true lines in Croatia ie. Istria, Dalmatia, Slavonia and Croatia proper (since you cannot digest a Krajina).

Can I name a few more things Mr. Mesic?

“However, that is not our final goal. Our final goal is for all of Southeast Europe, especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia, to join the EU and to open up our borders like France and Germany, who were at war for hundreds of years,” Mesić said.

I agree with Mesic. All the countries of the Western Balkans should join the EU.

denis:
"Why should Albanians trust the Serbs? What guarantees do we have that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years, abolish the autonomy and sends its army in Kosovo again?"

Please stop with the propaganda.

The army was sent in to crush uck terrorists (responsible for unnimaginable crimes) and protect civillians of Serbia! Kosovo is not yours.

mesic:

Since you love albanians so much why don't you give them a piece of croatia and relocate entire Kososvo population there? what a joke when mesic is giving tadic advice! Tadic needs to be ashamed, really.

K-Albanians have a bitter history with Serbia which goes back for centuries. The problem is that both sides didn't make an effort to live with each other, however, the difference is that Serbia was represented by a state and gov, while Albanians were not and were always denied one.

In my opinion Serbia did not show any care and wisdom in dealing with Kosovo issue. Yugolsavia received billions from the west but Kosovo got an immaterial part of it. One only has to look at the road system in Kosovo to see how little was invested as compared to Serbia's. From 1989 to 1998 after the abolishment of the autonomy Kosovo's exports went from $373 million to only $27 million.

Now all of a sudden, Serbs agree with "more than autonomy", and "less than independence".

Well why did you support the abolishment of the autonomy from 1989 till 2000? How come the majority of serbs still feel Milosevic did nothing wrong and the actions of Serbian army in 1999 in Kosovo were of a normal nature?? Seems like Serbia is ready to negotiate only when it's losing ground. Why should Albanians trust the Serbs? What guarantees do we have that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years, abolish the autonomy and sends its army in Kosovo again?

To put it in the context of that old proverb "Kill me once, shame on you, kill me twice, shame on me".

Dulo,

Please check 1244. As long as 1244 is valid Kosovo is NOT a state!

We all know that!

While many Serbs supporters in here think that Milosevic still rules in Kosova, things in Kosova are changing for no return.
Come down check, what is the life like in Kosova and are there any signs of Serbia.
Talk to any Serbs and they will tell you that "Kosovo is Serbis" is something that belongs to past and a huge mistake.

Mesic is telling the truth but truth often hurts some Serbs that belong to repressive past.

The Serbian goverment do not stand a chance.
Dulo

Well if the Serbian government don't stand a chance how come they have managed to convince 140 countries NOT to recognize Kosovo? How come they have managed to keep Kosovo out of the UN? Kosovo has a self proclaimed govenment that is NOT recognized by a majority of the world. Unfortunately for the Kosovo Albanians America and 22 european states can't dictate to everyone else what is right and wrong.

Demi,
just how well is Kosovo doing on it's own.

Being that i live in Canada and in the past i have visited Kosovo on numerous occasions. My parents took me to see Kosovo for the historical value and reference to Serbs dating back centuries.

Please tell me what Kosovo is like today. What is so different about Kosovo with out Serbia's influence.

Please please tell me, as i was planning a family vacation and i desire to know if it is safe today as it was under the former Jugoslavia.

Will i be able to walk down the street without worry?

Will i believe able to show my wife and kids where my ancestors came from?

"Come down check, what is the life like in Kosova and are there any signs of Serbia".
Olf

Ha ha ha! Have you been to Kosovo "Olf"? Let's see! There are hundreds of SERBIAN churches and monasteries. Are those Serbian signs enough for you?

Besides agreeing with him regarding Albanians, the last statement sounds like honesty-challenged. Wasn't him who was proud to be one of dismantlers of Yu?

And if the last statement is dishonest, we should not believe the rest what he is saying. If he would become the president of Serbia, there would be open war in Kosovo few weeks later. He is just an other bloody communist. If I don't trust anyone in Russia and Hungary with commie past, why should I trust commies in YU?

"Croatia should not be allowed to join the EU until:

i) Constituent rights are returned to Serbs and constitution to be rewritten in order to reflect the reality of the ground in Croatia

etc."

We have a saying here: 'The Constitution is not a suicide pact.' I have to assume the Croats believe the same thing.

Denis wrote: "K-Albanians have a bitter history with Serbia which goes back for centuries. The problem is that both sides didn't make an effort to live with each other, however, the difference is that Serbia was represented by a state and gov, while Albanians were not and were always denied one."

Ummm... Denis, lesson 1: Find a geography book, use your finger if you have to and look along the Adriatic sea, just above Greece. You will find a "state" called ALBANIA. Could the solution to this problem be ever so simple? Perhaps the K-Albanians have never opened a geography book or perhaps they have never heard that an Albanian state exists - it's called ALBANIA.

Geez!

Lesson 2 Denis: The class is now Old Proverbs instead of Geography. The proverb is not "kill me once shame on you, kill me twice shame on me" as you say. It is rather - Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".

On to lesson 3 Denis: This is a lesson in Biology. One cannot be killed twice - only once. Same with dying -one can only die once.

Brush up on these lessons Denis and next week if you pass the test, I may help with Intro to Logic and then lessons in History.

Geez!

Hajduk

So with one breath Mesic speaks as if Serbia can hold onto Kosovo and with another he dismisses it.
Talk about doublespeak.

He wants to give Serbia some home truths, then why doesn't he be truthful himself?

About how Jugoslavija broke up and for the reasons why countries of the region recognised Kosovo? The second question is easy to answer - US pressure.

So fine, if you want to talk about reality, then be truthful and say the US is still a very important player in the international system and this is the reason why they recognised Kosovo.

It is not due to some populistic belief in former Yug brotherhood (and unity?) against Milosevic / Serbia.

The US has conquered and occupied Kosovo - they are not likely to change that in the near future.

Croatia was a cause of the spilt of YU - it is hypocritical to try to blame Milosevic alone. Milosevic did a lot of wrong - but he was not the only one.

There really is no chance of partitioning Kosovo except for a functional one. We have already offered our Southern citizens self-rule and that's as far as it goes.

Kosovo will never become independent because that generally needs universal agreement and especially that of the sovereign nation so forget about it, independence is irreversibly blocked.

Now the interesting point here is that Mesic now talks about Serbia keeping Kosovo rather than Kosovo being independent because the bankrupt nations who once held 60% of the world GDP have recognised it. The world has changed and continues to change so it is becoming more evident that the former powers have a choice to fund this misguided idea of a black hole called Kosova or to save their pennies and negotiate with those holding the real power.

This statement coming from a Croat, the state which is responsible for Jasenovac concentration camp, and operation Storm. In other words, a state that was responsible for genocide. They have never apologized or been punished for Jasenovac, and were in fact rewarded by Tito for it.
As for operation Storm, well they celebrate that with a national holiday. When someone from such a state tries to lecture Serbs on how to treat minorities, that really is a sick joke. Serbia is the most multicultural and tolerant society in the Balkans, by far.
Mesic is the worst kind of opportunist.

“However, that is not our final goal. Our final goal is for all of Southeast Europe, especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia, to join the EU and to open up our borders like France and Germany, who were at war for hundreds of years,” Mesić said.

Maybe, just to clear the air, we could create several more borders (like Krajina, RS, Northern Kosovo) so that we can then join EU and open them up like France and Germany.
Our final goal could be to all join EU, "especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia",
and countries of former Croatia, and former Bosnia, etc. etc.

Denis,

"Yugolsavia received billions from the west but Kosovo got an immaterial part of it. One only has to look at the road system in Kosovo to see how little was invested as compared to Serbia's."

Kosovo received a lot of financial support from all over the country (Yugoslavia), but local Kosovo Albanian elite mismanaged it.

Mircea, why should all of them make the same mistake we did? What is the EU? It's another Warszaw Pact, only lead by Germany! Let me tell everybody what EU brings: they close factories whose products are better and cheaper then theirs, they send the little entrepreneur out of bussines for not complying with "EU regulations", while the big corporations sell you expired and re-re-re-modified products! Yes, let the final few markets left in Europe come to the EU!They have no money so they need "the poor and wild eastern europeans that we will educate" to buy from them! This is EU!

Dream on Mircea!

Unbelievable!

Worry about your "own" country before you put your two cents in with (ours) Serbia! Last I checked Ivo was a bad boy not playing nice with Slovenia & he hasn't been too nice with the transplanted Serbs either.

What audacity!

Kosovo cannot go back to Serbia, since it already IS a part of Serbia.

when will you all understand this basic fact?

there is only some temporary occupation, it won´t last forever, and everybody involved should should know that...

seems like the K-albanians are given some time to cool their heads down, but in the end, there is no doubt to that, Serbia will prevail.

the law is stronger than stupid force.

some haven´t realized that yet.

they will.

I have a feeling that Mesic’s obsession by Serbia will never end.
This is the man who was boasting around how successful he was
while involved in dissolution of Yugoslavia and who openly stood by Tudjman's ustasa policy during the war. And yet, Mesic has guts to point finger at Milosevic and Serbia accusing only one side.
This is the man who speaks about border non-importance once we are in EU
while at the same time Croatia disputes with Slovenia over few km’s of sea border. Instead of keeping low profile he goes around and keep lectures on democracy. It would be really funny if it wasn't actually sad.
He is definitely the slimiest political creature in this part of the world.

What guarantees do we have that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years, abolish the autonomy and sends its army in Kosovo again?
(Denis, 15 May 2009 16:16)

Few borderposts and a "Kosovo Republic" sign would not stop any dictator. See Kuwait and Saddam Hussein. The grave consequences of this campaign from Saddam's point of view won't make dead Kuwaitis happier.

Wait a minute:

So Mesic first says something like "Serbs need to do this and this and this if they don't want to lose Kosovo", and then he follows it up with Kosovo's independence being a "reality".

Schizophrenic a little? I mean I'm more than happy to acknowledge the first part of his statement, but......

"Our final goal is for all of Southeast Europe, especially the countries of the former Yugoslavia, to join the EU and to open up our borders"

One can only wonder, why Croats made such effort to pull Yugoslavia apart... Wouldn't it have been better to join YU long ago as a part of Yugoslavia?

"if they want Kosovo to remain in Serbia.”
Di they really? If Kosovo returns to Serbia it won't be Serbian politicians liiking after Kosovo. It will be also K-Albanian politicians taking part in governmet of Serbia? I bet no Serbian politician wants that.

'The world has changed and continues to change so it is becoming more evident that the former powers have a choice to fund this misguided idea of a black hole called Kosova or to save their pennies and negotiate with those holding the real power.'

It is in fact a matter of pennies, comparatively speaking - the population of Kosova is about the same as that of Sadr City, one section of Baghdad. (Serbia has about the same pop. as Baghdad as a whole.) Also, since Kosova is considerably friendlier, the money goes further - less has to be spent on security, and rebuilding.

It'll be a long time before we can't support Kosova.

"Serbia must look after Albanians"

This means Serbia must look after the Albanians in Presevo Valley, Medvedja, Bujanovac, Sandjak etc... in southern Serbia today which very easy can become an issue as northeastern Kosovo and this part demand joining their homecontry Kosovo, (as Kashmiris demand to join Pakistan)
"Kosovo is independent and that's a reality"
He is addresing the Serb nationalistic radicals that the reality can not be avoided, sooner or later you will recognize this reality...If you plan on draging your reality don't play with the fate of 90.000 serbs stil living in Kosovo as Kosovars with Serbian origine...let them integrate, don't hold them back, later will be shame on you when you will recognize this reality and 1% (90.000) Kosovo Serbs will be left behind in integration ....

"So Mesic first says something like "Serbs need to do this and this and this if they don't want to lose Kosovo", and then he follows it up with Kosovo's independence being a "reality". "

Mike, he meant "Serbia should have...after the war in order to keep Kosova." Now it's too late.

World Bank is next, then COE. Today the constitutional court was created, Serbian police started to work again, Biden is visiting. Things aren't as bad.

I hate repeating myself but I have to say it again. "Mr Mesic concentrate on what you will be telling Croatian mothers when their sons start returning home in body bags from Afghanistand and Pakistan soon- don't worry about Kosovo province, Serbia"

Everybody who is able to read between the lines should understand that what Mesic is saying is an advise and signal to FYROM leadership. They should learn from the recent history and not the repeat the horrible mistakes of Serbian politicians. If FYROM government will copy and paste the Serbian methods(which they tried and experimented in several forms for a long time), this will have serious consequences for FYROM to join the EU family, which they want-contrary to the majority in Serbia. Mecis is well aware that Serbia has no chance to get KiM back. And clever Serbs too.

"Serbia must look after Albanians" ? Nothing new here - UK and many others have been doin the same for time...

Can anyone tell me why Serbs absolutely deny to see their own faults in the break=up of Yugoslavia. Yes, the world knows others made the same mistakes, but that's not the point. This is about admitting (to yourselves and to the world) that you were wrong TOO. Think about that first before you start blaming the rest of the world for what happened. Now it is too late too start a discussion about Kosovo with stating that 'Kosovo will always be Serbian'. Maybe in your hearts, but not on my roadmap. Serbia really should have come up with offering Kosovo solutions decades before...

Furthermore I am deeply convinced that Kosovo was not an economical backwater during the days of Yugoslavia, just because Albanians lived there. Every country has lesser developed areas and it's also up to the people who live there to change things. From an economical point of view, Kosovo did not really have an ideal geographical situation in Yugoslavia, 'deep' south next to a then completely isolated Albania. Macedonia and southern Serbia weren't too developed eiter.

Let's face the fact that there are only bad solutions for the final status of Kosovo. Independence isn't going to be an economic succes for the K-Albanians, I'm afraid. Kosovo within Serbia wouldn't be such an ideal situation either. Differences between both sides will never disappear and the population of K-Albanians grows very fast, which would make problems even bigger...

It's OK, Albanians will look after Serbs in Kosovo as well ;)

This from a guy who kicked out 300,000 Serbs from Croatia! He abdicated his right to look after anyone but Croats ...look at the number of minorities in that province er country. It is pitiful, and disgusting that his comments are even printed here.

Mesice comments over the break up of Yugoslavia and Milosevic are uncalled for and inaccurate. Stipe Mesic as one of the last rotating Presidents in the former Yugoslavia was direclty responsible for planning, directing and illegally importing military equipment to start the Croatian revolution in tacit compliance with Tudjman.

The return of Serbian refugess to Krajina has not occured, and the state of Serbia after the war took in the largest amount of refugees after the civil wars. Comments should be directed at the return of Serbian refugees to Croatia, period.

aaayyy:
One can only wonder, why Croats made such effort to pull Yugoslavia apart... Wouldn't it have been better to join YU long ago as a part of Yugoslavia?"
Julian wants Serbs to admit they TOO were responsible for the break of Yugoslavia.

Guys, both of you are wrong! Yugoslavia simply stood NO chance for surviving in DEMOCRATIC conditions. Because there was no common all-Yugoslavian public opinion. And there were no all-Yugoslavian parties. It was a mastodont doomed from its conception. The Croats wanted a divorce "at the night of the wedding". The Macedonians, the Montenegrins, the K-Albanians, the Vojvodina Hungarians etc. were never asked if they wanted to join Yugoslavia or not! Given a chance in 1918 non of them would have. In 1945 again nobody asked the various peoples if they wanted Yugoslavia to be restored. Insted some of them were offered lurks and perks at the expense of the Serbs. That was a lasting loss for Serbia but braught only a temporary lease of live to communist Yugoslavia. All this was irreparable by 1989. What the people of Yugoslavia failed to do is to agree on a divorce without errecting real borders! And the Serbs' fault was the double standard they so vividly believed: "Serbs all over former Yugoslavia were a "nation" with a right of self-determination. Others in Serbia (including Kosovo) were "minorities" with no such a right!

@Nik

Very interesting, but I wrote IN the break-up of Yugoslavia instead of FOR. By overlooking this one simple word you totally missed the point of what I tried to say. However, your comment was interesting to read.