Negotiations. And then, if both (!) sides agree to divorce: why not!
(Ron, 1 December 2008 22:00)
What a perverted logic...
if one side doesn't agree in separation than the other remains hostage????
try to say that to a judge in your 'real independent' country if your wife asks to separate- 'I don't agree she stays home' ;))))
We Albanians have only one enemy: THE IGNORANCE- allways linked with the far-right/left political wings, in different countries (fortunately not for us but for those countris they are minority).
I just can't believe how silly some statements are...
PJD: I do agree with you that the urbanization is a late concept in the Serbian culture (excluding Belgrade/Nis-with Albanian imprint) but 31 100,000 cases of citizenship to be solved that were not taken into account in census (expats mainly). Again very far from minority and far far from R.Srpska- ok but with clean hands and soul not like r. Srpska.
Kosovo and it's citizens, 95% of them at least, give up so many rights for a compromise called Ahtisaari Plan and the Serbs repay with this. If they are going to implement this joke of a plan they should add Presheva valley and Medvegj in the list as well.
To quote, "the supreme court has made its' decision now let it enforce it". Let's see how EULEX will implement this joke plan.
bganon if Kostunica had not completely rejected EULEX and pointed out its obvious intentions to Serbia then Tadic would have agreed to EULEX in its original form as a Trojan horse... though I still personally don't trust this EULEX nor will I ever.
I ma done with comment today for the reason that I am not the smartest in here
(laki bani, 1 December 2008 17:02)
your comment deserves recommendation just for this sentence :) roungly 80% of the people posting here should admit the same.
I think it's laughable how the Albanian posters keep referring to areas outside of Kosovo as up for negotiation.
There is NO negotiation on any part of Serbia outside Kosovo. Not even the US has hinted to you that this would be acceptable so where in the hell do you get this idea that you would be supported in this? You know, that without support from the likes of the US you have a snow flake's chance in hell realizing your extreme goal.
You know you are nothing without NATO providing backup. All this rubbish how the Serbs are only good when fighting women and children is believed by you because you are so desperate to believe in fairy tales. Yugoslav army was on of the best in Europe and that comprised of a very high portion of Serbs. Serbs live in all former Yugoslav republics so it stands to reason that it was the Serbs who made the Yugoslav army what it was. Serbia inherited quite a lot.
So go ahead and tell your children about the whimpy Serbs who like the boogyman only attack the children but I think it would be better to pull your head out of the sand and acknowledge the reality. It would be better for all.
You have created a strange world for yourselves. Kostunica does not have the power you bestow on him and the SG does not have consultations with him. How do you think he presented this plan to the Secretary General?
Then we got a war where Serbia has everything to lose while Kosovo do not lose anything.
(Demi)
You have to be joking? Kosovoalbanians in war with Serbia! I bet the serbian army is really scared now. Demi you are forgetting something. Serbia is not taking anything away from albanians by keeping control of the north. Serbs are simply hanging on to what is rightfully theirs. It seems like more and more countries are agreeing with this by accepting the current situation where they serbs and albanians are seperated. If albanians in Kosovo treated the serbs in a humane and respectful way the world comunity would never accept a division of the territory. But realizing that serbs who live south of the Ibar live like the jews in german consentration camps they are begining to realize what misstake they have done manufacturing a dissfunctional and financially dependent welfare case like Kosovo. And I would like to see the albanians in Presevo deare to make any trouble. You will have the entire world against you and you know that. When are you going to realize that Kosovo is not the centre of the earth and that the international comunity wants to resolve the situation so it wont come back to haunt them later. They don't want another conflict and the only way to keep that from happening is to keep the people apart.
Kosovo will not be partioned. That's just a stupid idea. In that case why should albanians in Preshevo valley live under serbian rule when K-serbs in mitrovica can't do it under albanian rule ? If N.mitrovica partitions from Kosovo then you serbs should count on that preshevo valley will also partioned from Serbia. It's a done deal if you want to play that game. Then we got a war where Serbia has everything to lose while Kosovo do not lose anything.
EULEX will be deployd on the agreement made by Prishtina and Eu in february. Six-point plan is just a scenario to fool Russia at the UN to accept EULEX in Kosovo. On Ban's raport it also state that nothing can be deployd without agreement from Prishtina. Prishtina dosen't accept the six-point plan so it's a dead plan.
Just accept that Kosovo is independent from Serbia. Dependet on the world yes but not on Serbia.
You all have basically said what I was going to write. No need to repeat :)
I did however think that the Koha Ditore article would have been more incendiary. Instead, it rings of resigned acceptance over what Bajrami sees as the Daytonization of the province. At least he realizes it, unlike Thaci who could very well use this to consolidate his hold on power (like Milosevic).
But in reality, no one in Bosnia likes the partition either. It's unruly, its dysfunctional, but you know what? It works. Same goes for Kosovo though with a few extra features to accomodate the Serb enclaves south of the Ibar. I'd even encourage the Gorani of Dragas oblast to either join with the Serbs or form their own institutions too.
The interview itself and some reactions of the readers push me to put down the following: Mr. Bajrami is not in any case a prophet as he is pretending in the interview, and you know why, I’ll tell you: because he is clearly lined up to those who will commence the Third World War only for a single sensational news. Thus he is so biased that I would not waste a single letter in this regard.
As far as Jon is concerned; you are partially right, however I don’t understand your frustration at all. By the way, your suggestions regarding the future are so dark, uh!
ZK, let us start with partition in your request; Presheva, Bujanovac, Mitrovica, Novi Pazar, Macedonia, Nis, Gnjilane…..USA, Tibet, Indija, Globe….
I ma done with comment today for the reason that I am not the smartest in here, but I would add my opinion on this; at the last session of the UNSC for the first time Kosovo was presented by its Foreign Minister, and its territorial integrity was recognized by all participants. Remember this is a long process and it will take some time in this respect.
But what is the goal of either Kostunica or Tadic in this story? Nothing but to advert people’s concerns by the real ones.
To be continued
Funny. If the Serbs try to protect themselves in a hostile environment, we're dealing with "extreme and nationalistic demands", whereas Albanian demands are legitimate aspirations to self-determination and other fine words. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Tom
Lates wars tell that Serb armies and authorities are good only when fighting civilians.
Serbian civilians should not be afraid in Kosova since K-Authorites guarantie them more rightsthan Albanians in Preshevo, Bujanoc and Medvedja have.
Serbs living south of the Ibar river will die out regardless of what agreement there is. Mainly old people remain and no expelled serbs dare to return to their homes. By terrorising the remaining serbian population the albanians have proven that they don't want to live peacfully with the serbs so the serbs are hanging on to what is left for them to hang on to. Partition is the only solution. Unfortunately the albanians are not satisfied with the 90% of the territory but seek to take control of the north as well. If albanians get control of Mitrovica the serbs will be treated like serbs are treated in the rest of the country. They won't be able to go anywhre without NATO protection and it's impossible to live that kind of life in the long run. So, sooner or later they to will be forced to leave. Ethnic clensing the modern way.
The kosovo albanian have much to loose if they ratchet up the tension and there are attacks against EU nationals etc.
Thaci/Ceku are all words because the US has signed on to the 6 points, even if they say it is 'temporary'. It goes to show exactly how powerful they are when they are not backed almost unconditionally by a super power.
I should also point out that so far Serbs are still trading with the Kosovo Albanians. If there is violence or the threat of violence against the few remaining Serbs and other minorities (who bothers to mention the roma, egyptians, turkomans etc?), then the kosovo albanians may well have to look for trade elsewhere - i.e. cutting your nose of despite your face...
If the kosovo albanian leadership knuckle under, then they can get around to dealing with the economy and providing jobs to their electors rather than blaming everyone else for their ills
"o have >150,000 Albanians in south Serbia is NORMAL"
The 2002 Serbia census only showed that there was 61,647 in Serbia (excluding Kosovo).
"Serbs are about 25% of population in Bosnia and it is NORMAL that they have their own state R. Serpska on 49% of the Bosnian territory;"
Wrong again...Serbs are at the very least 31% (1991 census). Also as they are mainly rural dwellers then they will be a majority in a greater percentage of the land than their overall population percentage.
"It is NOT normal that Albanians in FYROM that are 30% of the population to have the same right- actually they are minority there."
Macedonia's 2002 census showed that Albanians make up 25% of the population there.
ben, serbs make up more than 25% of BiH, so please stop posting false data.
Kostunica must be some politcian in order to be able to lose his premiership, have his party almost completely dismantled, yet be able to create a 6 point plan that would be accepted the UN. Do you albanian posters really believe this? Do you?
But sad to say, it wasnt kostunica. It was slobodan milosevic. He made the 6 point plan.
o have >150,000 Albanians in south Serbia is NORMAL
but
it is unacceptable to have >100,000 Serbs in the “holy” Kosova (of which in case of amputation of the “Serbian” “heart”- kosova- only about 40,000 would go to Serbia)
If not for reciprocity than it is racism.
Serbs are about 25% of population in Bosnia and it is NORMAL that they have their own state R. Serpska on 49% of the Bosnian territory;
and in the same time
It is NOT normal that Albanians in FYROM that are 30% of the population to have the same right- actually they are minority there.
And you still dear to talk about compromise…
You can be cynic as much as you want but your arrogance brought you only pain- and don’t think that this time you will get other- only about 40% of K-Serbs can join Serbia in your best-case scenario.
By spreading lies and deceit to fool the people. Well that is pretty low of the Pristina base news outlet. I guess by saying Kostinicea wrote the six points it should piss off enough people to block EULEX. Let's be real Pristina does not want EULEX, because one the border would not be porous and the illegal trade will be severely limited no money for the criminal thus, no to Eulex. So please don't spin this to Serbia, everyone wants the EU money but does not want to play by EU rules that is the real deal.
'He said that the international community is, "for its short-term goals", prepared for a compromise'
Well at least some in Kosovo realise what is going on behind the scenes, rather than proclaiming victory.
Bajrami's view has a certain logic to it - essentially that Kosovo could well become a western 'fudge' as Bosnia is / was.
I would have preferred more fairness from the beginning of Kosovo 'negotiations', rather than a 'fudge' today, but what can you do?
What is key now (more than ever) is the new US administration and whether they are interested to be engaged in the Balkans. If they are not interested as a policy priority, Hilary or no, the balance will change.
However, I must say that it is pretty amusing that Bajrami says this is Kostunica's plan.
Kostunica rejects it completely so clearly it can't be his plan.
Funny. If the Serbs try to protect themselves in a hostile environment, we're dealing with "extreme and nationalistic demands", whereas Albanian demands are legitimate aspirations to self-determination and other fine words. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Well, the functional partition already exists from the very beginning of the post-war conflicts. Since Pristina had no control over the North from the beginning, implementation of Ban’s 6 points will only reaffirm sort of independence for North of the Ibar River from the rest of the province. And I don’t see why would have Serbs felt as losers, or any side for that matter. The compromise is a key word and so far, only Belgrade tried to find compromise in regard to future functioning of our province.
The best solution for Pristina is to accept these 6 points as proposed by Ban and as such unanimously adopted by the UNSC’ members . Serbs in the North will be under Belgrade’s umbrella and hopefully Serbian enclaves throughout Kosovo province while the Albanians may live under Pristina’s umbrella and everyone can be happy with the solution. Besides, Serbs have all possible rights to reject to be governed by the Albanian leadership in Pristina. That I would not call extreme behaviour as editor- in- chief put it, but very rationale and logical behaviour. Albanians have no reasons to ask Serbs to accept governance by Pristina since Albanians used to run their own parallel structures for years in Kosovo and rejected any possible links to Serbs and Serbia. They rejected everything that has to do with Serbia. Why should Serbs now be deprived of those same rights that Albanians used to apply?
So, using term “extreme behaviour” in this case is a bit harsh word, if not offensive. I don’t remember hearing that Serbs begun shooting KPS officers from the ambushes, kidnapping civilians, intimidating people around… as KLA used to do. And that was more than extreme behaviour, doesn't editor-in-chief thinks so?.
As for Serbian non-sovereignty over Kosovo, I would not be that sure because Resolution 1244 is still in force, not abolished yet and replaced by new one. As long as that resolution exists, I as a Serb have all possible rights to consider Kosovo as our province and I am sure most of the Serbs feel absolutely the same way. Even EULEX is coming as neutral mission and will work under the auspices of resolution 1244 which reaffirms Serbian sovereignty over Kosmet province. That is the main reason why Pristina rejects Ban’s 6 points' plan.
Leadership in Pristina must learn what does compromise mean.
It is amazing that Kosovo Albanian politicians can talk about the establishment of separate and parallel institutions in Northern Kosovo without a shred of irony! Do these people have no self-awareness, or do they simply believe that everyone else is utterly stupid?
One can only hope that there is a growing realisation in western circles that the Kosovo issue is far from solved. Their hopes that accepting the independence would ease matters has already been shown to be wishful thinking. This mess is just getting worse and worse. Better for everyone just to press ahead with partition and allow the rest of Kosovo to unite with Albania. This is the only real answer to long-term regional stability.
The pro Kosovo independance fraction in the EU is going have to have a very difficult stance, since the almost humiliating exposiotion of EU-(German)-citizens in Pristina. The EU relations will (and already have changed) change dramatically (see german newspapers and journals). The conviction that it is unacceptable for Serbs to live in that country is prevailing. Only the partitions of Kosovo can be a practicable solution.
I'm surprised he didn't blame Milosevic for making up the 6 points! Team Albania seem to still blame him for everything else that goes wrong.
The Albanians need to start accepting reality and to stop blaming everyone else for their problems. The world continues to change while these people are stuck in the past. They talk about plans and situations that do not exist or have been rejected.
Here is a reality check guys - the Serbians and other non-Albanians want nothing to do with these pretend politicians and their urban myths, legends, rumours, scams, hoaxes and fairy tales.
Serbia has offered self-rule so make the most of it. We have absolutely no interest in ruling the Albanians so go ahead and believe in your independent Kosova all you like. Just accept and respect that others will not.
One good development is the formalisation of the functional partition. The sooner that is implemented with freedom of transportation and movement between the enclaves, Northern Kosovo and central Serbia the better!
Based on the opinions expressed by the Albanians and their selective justice supporters, reconciliation is a long way away.
Funny. If the Serbs try to protect themselves in a hostile environment, we're dealing with "extreme and nationalistic demands", whereas Albanian demands are legitimate aspirations to self-determination and other fine words. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Well, the functional partition already exists from the very beginning of the post-war conflicts. Since Pristina had no control over the North from the beginning, implementation of Ban’s 6 points will only reaffirm sort of independence for North of the Ibar River from the rest of the province. And I don’t see why would have Serbs felt as losers, or any side for that matter. The compromise is a key word and so far, only Belgrade tried to find compromise in regard to future functioning of our province.
The best solution for Pristina is to accept these 6 points as proposed by Ban and as such unanimously adopted by the UNSC’ members . Serbs in the North will be under Belgrade’s umbrella and hopefully Serbian enclaves throughout Kosovo province while the Albanians may live under Pristina’s umbrella and everyone can be happy with the solution. Besides, Serbs have all possible rights to reject to be governed by the Albanian leadership in Pristina. That I would not call extreme behaviour as editor- in- chief put it, but very rationale and logical behaviour. Albanians have no reasons to ask Serbs to accept governance by Pristina since Albanians used to run their own parallel structures for years in Kosovo and rejected any possible links to Serbs and Serbia. They rejected everything that has to do with Serbia. Why should Serbs now be deprived of those same rights that Albanians used to apply?
So, using term “extreme behaviour” in this case is a bit harsh word, if not offensive. I don’t remember hearing that Serbs begun shooting KPS officers from the ambushes, kidnapping civilians, intimidating people around… as KLA used to do. And that was more than extreme behaviour, doesn't editor-in-chief thinks so?.
As for Serbian non-sovereignty over Kosovo, I would not be that sure because Resolution 1244 is still in force, not abolished yet and replaced by new one. As long as that resolution exists, I as a Serb have all possible rights to consider Kosovo as our province and I am sure most of the Serbs feel absolutely the same way. Even EULEX is coming as neutral mission and will work under the auspices of resolution 1244 which reaffirms Serbian sovereignty over Kosmet province. That is the main reason why Pristina rejects Ban’s 6 points' plan.
Leadership in Pristina must learn what does compromise mean.
I'm surprised he didn't blame Milosevic for making up the 6 points! Team Albania seem to still blame him for everything else that goes wrong.
The Albanians need to start accepting reality and to stop blaming everyone else for their problems. The world continues to change while these people are stuck in the past. They talk about plans and situations that do not exist or have been rejected.
Here is a reality check guys - the Serbians and other non-Albanians want nothing to do with these pretend politicians and their urban myths, legends, rumours, scams, hoaxes and fairy tales.
Serbia has offered self-rule so make the most of it. We have absolutely no interest in ruling the Albanians so go ahead and believe in your independent Kosova all you like. Just accept and respect that others will not.
One good development is the formalisation of the functional partition. The sooner that is implemented with freedom of transportation and movement between the enclaves, Northern Kosovo and central Serbia the better!
Based on the opinions expressed by the Albanians and their selective justice supporters, reconciliation is a long way away.
The pro Kosovo independance fraction in the EU is going have to have a very difficult stance, since the almost humiliating exposiotion of EU-(German)-citizens in Pristina. The EU relations will (and already have changed) change dramatically (see german newspapers and journals). The conviction that it is unacceptable for Serbs to live in that country is prevailing. Only the partitions of Kosovo can be a practicable solution.
'He said that the international community is, "for its short-term goals", prepared for a compromise'
Well at least some in Kosovo realise what is going on behind the scenes, rather than proclaiming victory.
Bajrami's view has a certain logic to it - essentially that Kosovo could well become a western 'fudge' as Bosnia is / was.
I would have preferred more fairness from the beginning of Kosovo 'negotiations', rather than a 'fudge' today, but what can you do?
What is key now (more than ever) is the new US administration and whether they are interested to be engaged in the Balkans. If they are not interested as a policy priority, Hilary or no, the balance will change.
However, I must say that it is pretty amusing that Bajrami says this is Kostunica's plan.
Kostunica rejects it completely so clearly it can't be his plan.
It is amazing that Kosovo Albanian politicians can talk about the establishment of separate and parallel institutions in Northern Kosovo without a shred of irony! Do these people have no self-awareness, or do they simply believe that everyone else is utterly stupid?
One can only hope that there is a growing realisation in western circles that the Kosovo issue is far from solved. Their hopes that accepting the independence would ease matters has already been shown to be wishful thinking. This mess is just getting worse and worse. Better for everyone just to press ahead with partition and allow the rest of Kosovo to unite with Albania. This is the only real answer to long-term regional stability.
By spreading lies and deceit to fool the people. Well that is pretty low of the Pristina base news outlet. I guess by saying Kostinicea wrote the six points it should piss off enough people to block EULEX. Let's be real Pristina does not want EULEX, because one the border would not be porous and the illegal trade will be severely limited no money for the criminal thus, no to Eulex. So please don't spin this to Serbia, everyone wants the EU money but does not want to play by EU rules that is the real deal.
o have >150,000 Albanians in south Serbia is NORMAL
but
it is unacceptable to have >100,000 Serbs in the “holy” Kosova (of which in case of amputation of the “Serbian” “heart”- kosova- only about 40,000 would go to Serbia)
If not for reciprocity than it is racism.
Serbs are about 25% of population in Bosnia and it is NORMAL that they have their own state R. Serpska on 49% of the Bosnian territory;
and in the same time
It is NOT normal that Albanians in FYROM that are 30% of the population to have the same right- actually they are minority there.
And you still dear to talk about compromise…
You can be cynic as much as you want but your arrogance brought you only pain- and don’t think that this time you will get other- only about 40% of K-Serbs can join Serbia in your best-case scenario.
I think it's laughable how the Albanian posters keep referring to areas outside of Kosovo as up for negotiation.
There is NO negotiation on any part of Serbia outside Kosovo. Not even the US has hinted to you that this would be acceptable so where in the hell do you get this idea that you would be supported in this? You know, that without support from the likes of the US you have a snow flake's chance in hell realizing your extreme goal.
You know you are nothing without NATO providing backup. All this rubbish how the Serbs are only good when fighting women and children is believed by you because you are so desperate to believe in fairy tales. Yugoslav army was on of the best in Europe and that comprised of a very high portion of Serbs. Serbs live in all former Yugoslav republics so it stands to reason that it was the Serbs who made the Yugoslav army what it was. Serbia inherited quite a lot.
So go ahead and tell your children about the whimpy Serbs who like the boogyman only attack the children but I think it would be better to pull your head out of the sand and acknowledge the reality. It would be better for all.
You have created a strange world for yourselves. Kostunica does not have the power you bestow on him and the SG does not have consultations with him. How do you think he presented this plan to the Secretary General?
"o have >150,000 Albanians in south Serbia is NORMAL"
The 2002 Serbia census only showed that there was 61,647 in Serbia (excluding Kosovo).
"Serbs are about 25% of population in Bosnia and it is NORMAL that they have their own state R. Serpska on 49% of the Bosnian territory;"
Wrong again...Serbs are at the very least 31% (1991 census). Also as they are mainly rural dwellers then they will be a majority in a greater percentage of the land than their overall population percentage.
"It is NOT normal that Albanians in FYROM that are 30% of the population to have the same right- actually they are minority there."
Macedonia's 2002 census showed that Albanians make up 25% of the population there.
Serbs living south of the Ibar river will die out regardless of what agreement there is. Mainly old people remain and no expelled serbs dare to return to their homes. By terrorising the remaining serbian population the albanians have proven that they don't want to live peacfully with the serbs so the serbs are hanging on to what is left for them to hang on to. Partition is the only solution. Unfortunately the albanians are not satisfied with the 90% of the territory but seek to take control of the north as well. If albanians get control of Mitrovica the serbs will be treated like serbs are treated in the rest of the country. They won't be able to go anywhre without NATO protection and it's impossible to live that kind of life in the long run. So, sooner or later they to will be forced to leave. Ethnic clensing the modern way.
ben, serbs make up more than 25% of BiH, so please stop posting false data.
Kostunica must be some politcian in order to be able to lose his premiership, have his party almost completely dismantled, yet be able to create a 6 point plan that would be accepted the UN. Do you albanian posters really believe this? Do you?
But sad to say, it wasnt kostunica. It was slobodan milosevic. He made the 6 point plan.
Kosovo will not be partioned. That's just a stupid idea. In that case why should albanians in Preshevo valley live under serbian rule when K-serbs in mitrovica can't do it under albanian rule ? If N.mitrovica partitions from Kosovo then you serbs should count on that preshevo valley will also partioned from Serbia. It's a done deal if you want to play that game. Then we got a war where Serbia has everything to lose while Kosovo do not lose anything.
EULEX will be deployd on the agreement made by Prishtina and Eu in february. Six-point plan is just a scenario to fool Russia at the UN to accept EULEX in Kosovo. On Ban's raport it also state that nothing can be deployd without agreement from Prishtina. Prishtina dosen't accept the six-point plan so it's a dead plan.
Just accept that Kosovo is independent from Serbia. Dependet on the world yes but not on Serbia.
Then we got a war where Serbia has everything to lose while Kosovo do not lose anything.
(Demi)
You have to be joking? Kosovoalbanians in war with Serbia! I bet the serbian army is really scared now. Demi you are forgetting something. Serbia is not taking anything away from albanians by keeping control of the north. Serbs are simply hanging on to what is rightfully theirs. It seems like more and more countries are agreeing with this by accepting the current situation where they serbs and albanians are seperated. If albanians in Kosovo treated the serbs in a humane and respectful way the world comunity would never accept a division of the territory. But realizing that serbs who live south of the Ibar live like the jews in german consentration camps they are begining to realize what misstake they have done manufacturing a dissfunctional and financially dependent welfare case like Kosovo. And I would like to see the albanians in Presevo deare to make any trouble. You will have the entire world against you and you know that. When are you going to realize that Kosovo is not the centre of the earth and that the international comunity wants to resolve the situation so it wont come back to haunt them later. They don't want another conflict and the only way to keep that from happening is to keep the people apart.
Funny. If the Serbs try to protect themselves in a hostile environment, we're dealing with "extreme and nationalistic demands", whereas Albanian demands are legitimate aspirations to self-determination and other fine words. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Tom
Lates wars tell that Serb armies and authorities are good only when fighting civilians.
Serbian civilians should not be afraid in Kosova since K-Authorites guarantie them more rightsthan Albanians in Preshevo, Bujanoc and Medvedja have.
You all have basically said what I was going to write. No need to repeat :)
I did however think that the Koha Ditore article would have been more incendiary. Instead, it rings of resigned acceptance over what Bajrami sees as the Daytonization of the province. At least he realizes it, unlike Thaci who could very well use this to consolidate his hold on power (like Milosevic).
But in reality, no one in Bosnia likes the partition either. It's unruly, its dysfunctional, but you know what? It works. Same goes for Kosovo though with a few extra features to accomodate the Serb enclaves south of the Ibar. I'd even encourage the Gorani of Dragas oblast to either join with the Serbs or form their own institutions too.
I ma done with comment today for the reason that I am not the smartest in here
(laki bani, 1 December 2008 17:02)
your comment deserves recommendation just for this sentence :) roungly 80% of the people posting here should admit the same.
The interview itself and some reactions of the readers push me to put down the following: Mr. Bajrami is not in any case a prophet as he is pretending in the interview, and you know why, I’ll tell you: because he is clearly lined up to those who will commence the Third World War only for a single sensational news. Thus he is so biased that I would not waste a single letter in this regard.
As far as Jon is concerned; you are partially right, however I don’t understand your frustration at all. By the way, your suggestions regarding the future are so dark, uh!
ZK, let us start with partition in your request; Presheva, Bujanovac, Mitrovica, Novi Pazar, Macedonia, Nis, Gnjilane…..USA, Tibet, Indija, Globe….
I ma done with comment today for the reason that I am not the smartest in here, but I would add my opinion on this; at the last session of the UNSC for the first time Kosovo was presented by its Foreign Minister, and its territorial integrity was recognized by all participants. Remember this is a long process and it will take some time in this respect.
But what is the goal of either Kostunica or Tadic in this story? Nothing but to advert people’s concerns by the real ones.
To be continued
The kosovo albanian have much to loose if they ratchet up the tension and there are attacks against EU nationals etc.
Thaci/Ceku are all words because the US has signed on to the 6 points, even if they say it is 'temporary'. It goes to show exactly how powerful they are when they are not backed almost unconditionally by a super power.
I should also point out that so far Serbs are still trading with the Kosovo Albanians. If there is violence or the threat of violence against the few remaining Serbs and other minorities (who bothers to mention the roma, egyptians, turkomans etc?), then the kosovo albanians may well have to look for trade elsewhere - i.e. cutting your nose of despite your face...
If the kosovo albanian leadership knuckle under, then they can get around to dealing with the economy and providing jobs to their electors rather than blaming everyone else for their ills
bganon if Kostunica had not completely rejected EULEX and pointed out its obvious intentions to Serbia then Tadic would have agreed to EULEX in its original form as a Trojan horse... though I still personally don't trust this EULEX nor will I ever.
Kosovo and it's citizens, 95% of them at least, give up so many rights for a compromise called Ahtisaari Plan and the Serbs repay with this. If they are going to implement this joke of a plan they should add Presheva valley and Medvegj in the list as well.
To quote, "the supreme court has made its' decision now let it enforce it". Let's see how EULEX will implement this joke plan.
Negotiations. And then, if both (!) sides agree to divorce: why not!
(Ron, 1 December 2008 22:00)
What a perverted logic...
if one side doesn't agree in separation than the other remains hostage????
try to say that to a judge in your 'real independent' country if your wife asks to separate- 'I don't agree she stays home' ;))))
We Albanians have only one enemy: THE IGNORANCE- allways linked with the far-right/left political wings, in different countries (fortunately not for us but for those countris they are minority).
I just can't believe how silly some statements are...
PJD: I do agree with you that the urbanization is a late concept in the Serbian culture (excluding Belgrade/Nis-with Albanian imprint) but 31 100,000 cases of citizenship to be solved that were not taken into account in census (expats mainly). Again very far from minority and far far from R.Srpska- ok but with clean hands and soul not like r. Srpska.
o have >150,000 Albanians in south Serbia is NORMAL
but
it is unacceptable to have >100,000 Serbs in the “holy” Kosova (of which in case of amputation of the “Serbian” “heart”- kosova- only about 40,000 would go to Serbia)
If not for reciprocity than it is racism.
Serbs are about 25% of population in Bosnia and it is NORMAL that they have their own state R. Serpska on 49% of the Bosnian territory;
and in the same time
It is NOT normal that Albanians in FYROM that are 30% of the population to have the same right- actually they are minority there.
And you still dear to talk about compromise…
You can be cynic as much as you want but your arrogance brought you only pain- and don’t think that this time you will get other- only about 40% of K-Serbs can join Serbia in your best-case scenario.
Kosovo will not be partioned. That's just a stupid idea. In that case why should albanians in Preshevo valley live under serbian rule when K-serbs in mitrovica can't do it under albanian rule ? If N.mitrovica partitions from Kosovo then you serbs should count on that preshevo valley will also partioned from Serbia. It's a done deal if you want to play that game. Then we got a war where Serbia has everything to lose while Kosovo do not lose anything.
EULEX will be deployd on the agreement made by Prishtina and Eu in february. Six-point plan is just a scenario to fool Russia at the UN to accept EULEX in Kosovo. On Ban's raport it also state that nothing can be deployd without agreement from Prishtina. Prishtina dosen't accept the six-point plan so it's a dead plan.
Just accept that Kosovo is independent from Serbia. Dependet on the world yes but not on Serbia.
Well, the functional partition already exists from the very beginning of the post-war conflicts. Since Pristina had no control over the North from the beginning, implementation of Ban’s 6 points will only reaffirm sort of independence for North of the Ibar River from the rest of the province. And I don’t see why would have Serbs felt as losers, or any side for that matter. The compromise is a key word and so far, only Belgrade tried to find compromise in regard to future functioning of our province.
The best solution for Pristina is to accept these 6 points as proposed by Ban and as such unanimously adopted by the UNSC’ members . Serbs in the North will be under Belgrade’s umbrella and hopefully Serbian enclaves throughout Kosovo province while the Albanians may live under Pristina’s umbrella and everyone can be happy with the solution. Besides, Serbs have all possible rights to reject to be governed by the Albanian leadership in Pristina. That I would not call extreme behaviour as editor- in- chief put it, but very rationale and logical behaviour. Albanians have no reasons to ask Serbs to accept governance by Pristina since Albanians used to run their own parallel structures for years in Kosovo and rejected any possible links to Serbs and Serbia. They rejected everything that has to do with Serbia. Why should Serbs now be deprived of those same rights that Albanians used to apply?
So, using term “extreme behaviour” in this case is a bit harsh word, if not offensive. I don’t remember hearing that Serbs begun shooting KPS officers from the ambushes, kidnapping civilians, intimidating people around… as KLA used to do. And that was more than extreme behaviour, doesn't editor-in-chief thinks so?.
As for Serbian non-sovereignty over Kosovo, I would not be that sure because Resolution 1244 is still in force, not abolished yet and replaced by new one. As long as that resolution exists, I as a Serb have all possible rights to consider Kosovo as our province and I am sure most of the Serbs feel absolutely the same way. Even EULEX is coming as neutral mission and will work under the auspices of resolution 1244 which reaffirms Serbian sovereignty over Kosmet province. That is the main reason why Pristina rejects Ban’s 6 points' plan.
Leadership in Pristina must learn what does compromise mean.
Funny. If the Serbs try to protect themselves in a hostile environment, we're dealing with "extreme and nationalistic demands", whereas Albanian demands are legitimate aspirations to self-determination and other fine words. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Funny. If the Serbs try to protect themselves in a hostile environment, we're dealing with "extreme and nationalistic demands", whereas Albanian demands are legitimate aspirations to self-determination and other fine words. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Tom
Lates wars tell that Serb armies and authorities are good only when fighting civilians.
Serbian civilians should not be afraid in Kosova since K-Authorites guarantie them more rightsthan Albanians in Preshevo, Bujanoc and Medvedja have.
I'm surprised he didn't blame Milosevic for making up the 6 points! Team Albania seem to still blame him for everything else that goes wrong.
The Albanians need to start accepting reality and to stop blaming everyone else for their problems. The world continues to change while these people are stuck in the past. They talk about plans and situations that do not exist or have been rejected.
Here is a reality check guys - the Serbians and other non-Albanians want nothing to do with these pretend politicians and their urban myths, legends, rumours, scams, hoaxes and fairy tales.
Serbia has offered self-rule so make the most of it. We have absolutely no interest in ruling the Albanians so go ahead and believe in your independent Kosova all you like. Just accept and respect that others will not.
One good development is the formalisation of the functional partition. The sooner that is implemented with freedom of transportation and movement between the enclaves, Northern Kosovo and central Serbia the better!
Based on the opinions expressed by the Albanians and their selective justice supporters, reconciliation is a long way away.
The interview itself and some reactions of the readers push me to put down the following: Mr. Bajrami is not in any case a prophet as he is pretending in the interview, and you know why, I’ll tell you: because he is clearly lined up to those who will commence the Third World War only for a single sensational news. Thus he is so biased that I would not waste a single letter in this regard.
As far as Jon is concerned; you are partially right, however I don’t understand your frustration at all. By the way, your suggestions regarding the future are so dark, uh!
ZK, let us start with partition in your request; Presheva, Bujanovac, Mitrovica, Novi Pazar, Macedonia, Nis, Gnjilane…..USA, Tibet, Indija, Globe….
I ma done with comment today for the reason that I am not the smartest in here, but I would add my opinion on this; at the last session of the UNSC for the first time Kosovo was presented by its Foreign Minister, and its territorial integrity was recognized by all participants. Remember this is a long process and it will take some time in this respect.
But what is the goal of either Kostunica or Tadic in this story? Nothing but to advert people’s concerns by the real ones.
To be continued
The pro Kosovo independance fraction in the EU is going have to have a very difficult stance, since the almost humiliating exposiotion of EU-(German)-citizens in Pristina. The EU relations will (and already have changed) change dramatically (see german newspapers and journals). The conviction that it is unacceptable for Serbs to live in that country is prevailing. Only the partitions of Kosovo can be a practicable solution.
It is amazing that Kosovo Albanian politicians can talk about the establishment of separate and parallel institutions in Northern Kosovo without a shred of irony! Do these people have no self-awareness, or do they simply believe that everyone else is utterly stupid?
One can only hope that there is a growing realisation in western circles that the Kosovo issue is far from solved. Their hopes that accepting the independence would ease matters has already been shown to be wishful thinking. This mess is just getting worse and worse. Better for everyone just to press ahead with partition and allow the rest of Kosovo to unite with Albania. This is the only real answer to long-term regional stability.
Kosovo and it's citizens, 95% of them at least, give up so many rights for a compromise called Ahtisaari Plan and the Serbs repay with this. If they are going to implement this joke of a plan they should add Presheva valley and Medvegj in the list as well.
To quote, "the supreme court has made its' decision now let it enforce it". Let's see how EULEX will implement this joke plan.
'He said that the international community is, "for its short-term goals", prepared for a compromise'
Well at least some in Kosovo realise what is going on behind the scenes, rather than proclaiming victory.
Bajrami's view has a certain logic to it - essentially that Kosovo could well become a western 'fudge' as Bosnia is / was.
I would have preferred more fairness from the beginning of Kosovo 'negotiations', rather than a 'fudge' today, but what can you do?
What is key now (more than ever) is the new US administration and whether they are interested to be engaged in the Balkans. If they are not interested as a policy priority, Hilary or no, the balance will change.
However, I must say that it is pretty amusing that Bajrami says this is Kostunica's plan.
Kostunica rejects it completely so clearly it can't be his plan.
By spreading lies and deceit to fool the people. Well that is pretty low of the Pristina base news outlet. I guess by saying Kostinicea wrote the six points it should piss off enough people to block EULEX. Let's be real Pristina does not want EULEX, because one the border would not be porous and the illegal trade will be severely limited no money for the criminal thus, no to Eulex. So please don't spin this to Serbia, everyone wants the EU money but does not want to play by EU rules that is the real deal.
You all have basically said what I was going to write. No need to repeat :)
I did however think that the Koha Ditore article would have been more incendiary. Instead, it rings of resigned acceptance over what Bajrami sees as the Daytonization of the province. At least he realizes it, unlike Thaci who could very well use this to consolidate his hold on power (like Milosevic).
But in reality, no one in Bosnia likes the partition either. It's unruly, its dysfunctional, but you know what? It works. Same goes for Kosovo though with a few extra features to accomodate the Serb enclaves south of the Ibar. I'd even encourage the Gorani of Dragas oblast to either join with the Serbs or form their own institutions too.
ben, serbs make up more than 25% of BiH, so please stop posting false data.
Kostunica must be some politcian in order to be able to lose his premiership, have his party almost completely dismantled, yet be able to create a 6 point plan that would be accepted the UN. Do you albanian posters really believe this? Do you?
But sad to say, it wasnt kostunica. It was slobodan milosevic. He made the 6 point plan.
"o have >150,000 Albanians in south Serbia is NORMAL"
The 2002 Serbia census only showed that there was 61,647 in Serbia (excluding Kosovo).
"Serbs are about 25% of population in Bosnia and it is NORMAL that they have their own state R. Serpska on 49% of the Bosnian territory;"
Wrong again...Serbs are at the very least 31% (1991 census). Also as they are mainly rural dwellers then they will be a majority in a greater percentage of the land than their overall population percentage.
"It is NOT normal that Albanians in FYROM that are 30% of the population to have the same right- actually they are minority there."
Macedonia's 2002 census showed that Albanians make up 25% of the population there.
Negotiations. And then, if both (!) sides agree to divorce: why not!
(Ron, 1 December 2008 22:00)
What a perverted logic...
if one side doesn't agree in separation than the other remains hostage????
try to say that to a judge in your 'real independent' country if your wife asks to separate- 'I don't agree she stays home' ;))))
We Albanians have only one enemy: THE IGNORANCE- allways linked with the far-right/left political wings, in different countries (fortunately not for us but for those countris they are minority).
I just can't believe how silly some statements are...
PJD: I do agree with you that the urbanization is a late concept in the Serbian culture (excluding Belgrade/Nis-with Albanian imprint) but 31 100,000 cases of citizenship to be solved that were not taken into account in census (expats mainly). Again very far from minority and far far from R.Srpska- ok but with clean hands and soul not like r. Srpska.
Serbs living south of the Ibar river will die out regardless of what agreement there is. Mainly old people remain and no expelled serbs dare to return to their homes. By terrorising the remaining serbian population the albanians have proven that they don't want to live peacfully with the serbs so the serbs are hanging on to what is left for them to hang on to. Partition is the only solution. Unfortunately the albanians are not satisfied with the 90% of the territory but seek to take control of the north as well. If albanians get control of Mitrovica the serbs will be treated like serbs are treated in the rest of the country. They won't be able to go anywhre without NATO protection and it's impossible to live that kind of life in the long run. So, sooner or later they to will be forced to leave. Ethnic clensing the modern way.
Then we got a war where Serbia has everything to lose while Kosovo do not lose anything.
(Demi)
You have to be joking? Kosovoalbanians in war with Serbia! I bet the serbian army is really scared now. Demi you are forgetting something. Serbia is not taking anything away from albanians by keeping control of the north. Serbs are simply hanging on to what is rightfully theirs. It seems like more and more countries are agreeing with this by accepting the current situation where they serbs and albanians are seperated. If albanians in Kosovo treated the serbs in a humane and respectful way the world comunity would never accept a division of the territory. But realizing that serbs who live south of the Ibar live like the jews in german consentration camps they are begining to realize what misstake they have done manufacturing a dissfunctional and financially dependent welfare case like Kosovo. And I would like to see the albanians in Presevo deare to make any trouble. You will have the entire world against you and you know that. When are you going to realize that Kosovo is not the centre of the earth and that the international comunity wants to resolve the situation so it wont come back to haunt them later. They don't want another conflict and the only way to keep that from happening is to keep the people apart.
I ma done with comment today for the reason that I am not the smartest in here
(laki bani, 1 December 2008 17:02)
your comment deserves recommendation just for this sentence :) roungly 80% of the people posting here should admit the same.
The kosovo albanian have much to loose if they ratchet up the tension and there are attacks against EU nationals etc.
Thaci/Ceku are all words because the US has signed on to the 6 points, even if they say it is 'temporary'. It goes to show exactly how powerful they are when they are not backed almost unconditionally by a super power.
I should also point out that so far Serbs are still trading with the Kosovo Albanians. If there is violence or the threat of violence against the few remaining Serbs and other minorities (who bothers to mention the roma, egyptians, turkomans etc?), then the kosovo albanians may well have to look for trade elsewhere - i.e. cutting your nose of despite your face...
If the kosovo albanian leadership knuckle under, then they can get around to dealing with the economy and providing jobs to their electors rather than blaming everyone else for their ills
I think it's laughable how the Albanian posters keep referring to areas outside of Kosovo as up for negotiation.
There is NO negotiation on any part of Serbia outside Kosovo. Not even the US has hinted to you that this would be acceptable so where in the hell do you get this idea that you would be supported in this? You know, that without support from the likes of the US you have a snow flake's chance in hell realizing your extreme goal.
You know you are nothing without NATO providing backup. All this rubbish how the Serbs are only good when fighting women and children is believed by you because you are so desperate to believe in fairy tales. Yugoslav army was on of the best in Europe and that comprised of a very high portion of Serbs. Serbs live in all former Yugoslav republics so it stands to reason that it was the Serbs who made the Yugoslav army what it was. Serbia inherited quite a lot.
So go ahead and tell your children about the whimpy Serbs who like the boogyman only attack the children but I think it would be better to pull your head out of the sand and acknowledge the reality. It would be better for all.
You have created a strange world for yourselves. Kostunica does not have the power you bestow on him and the SG does not have consultations with him. How do you think he presented this plan to the Secretary General?
bganon if Kostunica had not completely rejected EULEX and pointed out its obvious intentions to Serbia then Tadic would have agreed to EULEX in its original form as a Trojan horse... though I still personally don't trust this EULEX nor will I ever.
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