K is not democratic, nor is he "pro-western" or moderate,... he is bad news, very bad, and represents the worst reactionary forces of the country and society. he is a dangerous demagogue and worse, and follows directly in the footsteps of you-know- who. ...
(robert0, 7 February 2008 07:20)
Well said Robert.
Although I do disagree for many things you said, I do agree what you are saying for K.
I am glad that someone already described correctly Mr. K but unfortunately that came from Albanian side. I am nationalist and don’t agree with Kosovo Independence but strongly agree on self-determination of the Balkan nations, for Serbs, Albanians, Croats and Bulgarians. It is silly crime to leave K-Albanians territories outside of Republic of Albania and in the same time to leave Srbska, Slavonia, Krajina ect., outside of Republic of Serbia or Croat territories in BiH outsite of Republic of Croatia. And to do a permanent peace in Balkan, it takes courage and not a politician “self-proclaim” nationalist with hidden agenda. Until those politicians will be elected to lead, Balkan nation will suffer. Thanks for pointing out some views that I share.
Milan, Бања Лука
does anyonme remember svetlana broz? one of the great intellects of (ex) yugoslavia, respected by millions, hated by (ultra) nationalists? when i first met and interviewed her, way back in 2002, i asked her about your mr. kostunica, mr. "Legal-eagle" of serbia. so what do you think of kostunica? i posed, back when zoran djindjic was still president, before the forces of reaction murdered him. K is not democratic, nor is he "pro-western" or moderate, or any other silly adjectives attributed to him by naive western media or in these comments. he is bad news, very bad, and represents the worst reactionary forces of the country and society. he is a dangerous demagogue and worse, and follows directly in the footsteps of you-know- who. if serbia wants to follow a democratic path, i strongly suggest it start by getting such people OUt of power, and pushing their leaders, like tadic, to live up to their "democratic, pro-western" image. i would like to add that i am seeing, or think i am seeing the (re)emergence of some authentically "pragmatic" and democratic voices in these postings, in the midst of so many shrill nationalist pronouncements. i welcome such a development, and hope to hear more such voices, in order that some real dialogue may one day ensue between different people and groups, rather than the usual hate-fest... i stil believe that when kosova is free and independent, things can ease up a bit, and those blgd politicians will have to find some other platform upon which to garner votes and support. any day now.
robert-0 from san francisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(in the interest of a fuller, more democratic media)
Well EU promised to hook up Serbia, and Serbia was looking Fast ball swing for the fences and EU tossed a change up and Serbia elected Mr Tadic instead of Mr Nikolic now we see how the EU keeps it's word? They don't keep it.
Have you ever played poker? Serbia is playing poker now. In the next few months we will know if Serbia takes it all or loses everything.
It's a matter of luck and diplomacy.
good luck in your campaign - the undemocratic forces have blocked the UK's referendum and we all know why - Lisbon would be shot to pieces!
The reality is that the EU of tomorrow if Lisbon is passed through is not a place that Serbia need be a party to! This is not isolation for I am all for free trade and controlled movement of skills across the trade area but this is no longer what it is about. Your right it is controlled by failed politicians who unelected in their posts within the EU Lord it over us "simpletons". I truly hope teh Irish put a spanner in the works but of course then they will re-run it seeing as you clearly did not understand the dictat the first time round!
Postponing the signing of this "deal" is probably for the best. It creates a bit of breathing space even if this was not the motivation of Olli Rehn.
This guy - Rehn - epitomises the new arrogance of the EU. He should have just announced the postponement and left it at that. But no. He had to have a go at Kostunica while he was at it. What right does this man have to interfere in the internal politics of Serbia? Simply, he has none.
I would advise all in Serbia to take a look at the Lisbon Treaty. If it is passed there will be a lot more Olli Rehns floating around. Isn't it a reflection of the collapsing democracy in the EU that only my country, Ireland, can stop this treaty. We are the only country of the 27 to hold a referendum.
Already our government and most of the opposition are urging us to vote "yes". But a strong campaign against the treaty is growing. Soon the entire EU will be blasting us with pro-Lisbon propaganda.
For the sake of democracy in Europe this treaty must be brought down in flames and buried. Remember, this is of gret importance to Serbia. I will keep you posted.
The doc is not what Serbia awaited in exchange for Kosovo territory, but in any case after a week of neurotic tensions in Belgrade it will be signed. At least the kids can have a schengen to go to Budapest... Serbs are nothing different from other Europeans: those in EU are civilized nationalists, the destiny that awaits Serbs soon when they enter the boring group.
I fully support Kostunica. I have always had way more faith in Kostunica than Tadic. Why join a club if they are trying to dismember you? It is that simple. It is not worth joining if some members are 'more equal than others'. We need to stick to our true friends, and remain free and independent.
Luke- by pride I mean not forgetting ones history for some 'pot at the end of the rainbow'. By pride I mean not forgetting the sacrifices of ones ancestors agains insurmountable odds. By pride I mean sticking to one's principles come hell or high water. Pride can be a dangerous thing, and maybe Serbs would be better off without it. Pride and stupidity together is a fatal combination (present company excluded!)
"Maybe we are too proud and should just do as we're told. But that is not in our national character. We live and die for our principles, good and bad and no trickery will change that. 'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us"
- your words reminded me of the famous work, The Death of a Guslar, by Isidor Bajic that was told to me many years ago where the poet reminds us that thousands of muscians were blinded by their oppressors, that the Ottoman Turks "destroyed their worldly goods and harvested their hopes," but they could never make thse blind guslars sing praises of the pashas who murdered the sons and raped the daughters of the oppressed Serbian population.
Princip friends is your interpretation. I dont believe in friends, I believe in interests. Anybody who knows anything about international relations knows this is how it works. So please quit using 'friends' it makes it sound as if you dont know how the system works - when I believe you do.
Besides its not 'friends' I'm worried about. Its much closer to home than that. Members of the government are stabbing their allies in the back. They are preparing an election in which their partners Tadic / DS will be blamed for the loss of Kosovo. They are briefing the media about traitors and patriots - using language which reminds us of the bitter divisions of the 1990's. Their inability to offer a solution is causing us to argue with one another. Instead they want to bully the majority of the elected government into supporting their position.
Princip for God's sake man the EU position hasnt changed. We knew that countries such as the UK or France supported independence. Big deal. You didnt really expect that as a friendly favour to Tadic they would change their policy did you?
"'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us."
Please enlighten me (without sarcasm or irony - I wouldn't understand it anyway :-) what is the proudness that West is wearing down? Proudness over what?
Respect is a two way street, I could not agree more with that. A little goodwill here and there would do good, also here in this forum.
far be it from me to assume i should/could lecture eu experts and excellent professionals and intellectuals that they are, because i know there is not a single uninspired incompetent bureaucrat among them. but: what a fiasco that mission decision one day after elections here. what naive nonsense to wrap it up in that agreement and send it on the same day, and what fiasco not to sign saa when you should have.
so what now, eggheads?
accusing kostunica and reminding me of how i voted? is that all?
well i voted for what's good for serbia not for what's good for the eu. i, and i think 2.5 million others.
the eu seems to have poor leadership and it seems to make decisions it doesn't think through first. well then i daresay we've got the likes of that here as well, thankyouverymuch.
I cant help but feel insulted by this 'interim' deal. The EU are treating us like children. Maybe we are too proud and should just do as we're told. But that is not in our national character. We live and die for our principles, good and bad and no trickery will change that. 'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us. I am all for good relations with the EU, but respect is two way street.
Unfortunately for us the things seems to fall apart, indeed. However, I don’t think that Kostunica tries to pass all the blame on the others. Actually, there is no one to blame for this. I dare to say that they all did the best they could and the best they knew. There is nothing we can do any more because we do not have support and cannot go against the entire world any longer, but we don’t have to accept everything and agree on everything. We still have right to oppose EU’s policy towards Serbia by all political means. I do not suggest any freezing of further cooperation (that selja Velja proposed) but we don’t have to smile them either. We must clearly show them that what they do is not right and that their deeds inflict injustice. In my opinion, the only right solution at this moment would be referendum and people can chose for themselves. If it was up to me, all important issues would be solved in referendums by the peoples’ will.
Strange that it is the EU backstabing Tadic within one day of his narrow victory with the insistance that they will send in their illegal mission and you can't comprehend the link the EU are putting forth namely:-
we will let you in our club if you act subservient over the amputation and dismemberment of your State! We will promise you all the gold you want in the future just sign here...
Not only that but as one of these so called "friends" who visited Tadic in Belgrade clearly does not care what Tadic has to say about this illegal mission. Just to add salt in Tadic's stabbed back after his visit from Finland's Kanerva. While in Belgrade Tadic said yesterday "The EU can send its mission to Kosovo only with UN SC approval, President Boris Tadić says." as reported in B92 last night. http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=05&nav_id=47495
Look at the picture - Kanerva all smiles and standing side ny side - Friends indeed...
Today this so called "friend" did not give a hoot to Tadic and his words regarding Serbian Sovereignity - the very substance of a Presidents mandate;
"Finnish Foreign Minister Ilkka Kanerva says that Finland is prepared to recognize Kosovo as an independent nation. He adds that the rest of the EU's foreign ministers are on alert to respond, if Kosovo declares independence.
Kanerva says that current EU president Slovenia would convene an extraordinary meeting of foreign ministers in a matter of a day or so.
http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id81933.html
- surely now you can start to understand the duplicitnous nature with which Serbia and its newly elected President is being treated. Clearly you can comprehend that this is how the "few" are pushing these events since they are tantemount to all things illegal with respect to EU foundations let alone UN and International law.
One asks; Is Tadic so naive given that his friends one day smile and shake hands and then insult his very intelligence and judgement the next ? Is Tadic naive or what is happening ?
Lenard you have only yourself to blame. I bet you completely supported the independence of Croatia and condemned 'Srboslavija' right?
Well Jugoslavija gave us insurance against these types of problems. Now Serbia and Croatia are weak individual countries and yet its everybody elses fault right?
bmrusila, whilst I agree with some of your points I'd say that we need to keep our own house in order.
Things look as if they are falling apart at the moment. Sadly that is because some political parties are trying to pass the blame of impending Kosovo independence onto other Serbian parties. No guesses as to who I am talking about.
(bganon, 6 February 2008 15:06)
It's how the butcher of the Balkans began his campaign in Kosova in '89. The biggest blame for the "loss" (what loss?) are the Serbs themselves, they allowed their own selves to be ruled by extremist leaders who offered greatness in Greater Serbia.
Now it's time to move on and accept your neighbors in Kosova. Time for Republic of Kosova and prosperity in Southeastern Europe.
"This is very strange since Koštunica recently intervened not to have Serbia's progress toward the EU halted, while now the Serbian prime minister has turned his back to what he stood for," Rehn was quoted by Beta news agency.
This is just another Serbian theatre in order to postpone the independence- NEW ELECTIONS in Serbia, hold on your declaration of independence might jeopardize the "democratic" forces in Serbia- well it’s not our responsibility to grow the Serbian ‘baby’ democracy- there has been passed almost 20y- it should’ve been adult already .
The crucial problem is that the Serbian leaders have no intellectual and moral force to face the reality and that is that KOSOVA IS NOT SERBIAN.
Everything else is just making a fool of yourself- which gives strength to the Serbian radicals, their electorate is fed with the stories of how fool the Europeans are and how smart the Serbs are.
bmrusila for once I agree with you about "cannot fool Serbs any longer because Serbs are not stupid people and certainly not collectively mentally retarded"
EU is just playing a cruel game neither Serbia or Croatia will be let in until the new EU constitution is ratified if ever. The expansion is blocked at 27 members and their is strong opposition to having more members in the EU. They are just stringing you along trying to get consestions to their greedy gain ,unlawful advantage. All the while offering some kind of meaningless associate of the EU more of a colonial relation. They will give 101 reason why not ,all the while bleeding you dry and sowing discord in the so called would by members internal affairs. Trying or threating to get a advantage fore their selfish self profit driven greed with no regards to fairnes or lawful justest. Don't go running to the EU it is just playing and treating would by members as simpleton fools! It just legitimizes their actions in their warped thinking and emboldens the EU to be a law on to them selfs. That is from a organization set up to facilitate in free fare trade between members in Europe it has steped way beyond its intendant purpose and mandate.
bmrusila, whilst I agree with some of your points I'd say that we need to keep our own house in order.
Things look as if they are falling apart at the moment. Sadly that is because some political parties are trying to pass the blame of impending Kosovo independence onto other Serbian parties. No guesses as to who I am talking about.
Janša, whose country currently chairs the EU, expressed his hope that Serbia would sign the political deal on Thursday, approved by the Slovenian government.
-I cannot understand why Slovenia tries to present this as is if she was some important factor in crating this political deal and yet Mr Jansa arrogantly states that the deal is approved by Slovenian government. Slovenia should keep quiet after shameful agreement with USA which came out to the public. Slovenia will do everything she is ordered to do and that’s it, no one ask Slovenia for the opinion. By emphasizing that deal is “approved by Slovenian government” Slovenia cannot fool Serbs any longer because Serbs are not stupid people and certainly not collectively mentally retarded. Mr Jansa, flirting so much with USA while same time Slovenia tries to preserve market for its goods is not going to work any longer.
“Greece and Slovenia advocate a solution concerning Kosovo’s future status that will stabilize the region in the long term, and keep the EU united,” said Janša.
- No, on the contrary, Kosovo independence will not stabilize the region but quite the opposite. I think that independence of Kosovo will have a great impact on the EU’s unity as well. And what do you think people, who will benefit the most from weaken Europe?
Janša, whose country currently chairs the EU, expressed his hope that Serbia would sign the political deal on Thursday, approved by the Slovenian government.
-I cannot understand why Slovenia tries to present this as is if she was some important factor in crating this political deal and yet Mr Jansa arrogantly states that the deal is approved by Slovenian government. Slovenia should keep quiet after shameful agreement with USA which came out to the public. Slovenia will do everything she is ordered to do and that’s it, no one ask Slovenia for the opinion. By emphasizing that deal is “approved by Slovenian government” Slovenia cannot fool Serbs any longer because Serbs are not stupid people and certainly not collectively mentally retarded. Mr Jansa, flirting so much with USA while same time Slovenia tries to preserve market for its goods is not going to work any longer.
“Greece and Slovenia advocate a solution concerning Kosovo’s future status that will stabilize the region in the long term, and keep the EU united,” said Janša.
- No, on the contrary, Kosovo independence will not stabilize the region but quite the opposite. I think that independence of Kosovo will have a great impact on the EU’s unity as well. And what do you think people, who will benefit the most from weaken Europe?
EU is just playing a cruel game neither Serbia or Croatia will be let in until the new EU constitution is ratified if ever. The expansion is blocked at 27 members and their is strong opposition to having more members in the EU. They are just stringing you along trying to get consestions to their greedy gain ,unlawful advantage. All the while offering some kind of meaningless associate of the EU more of a colonial relation. They will give 101 reason why not ,all the while bleeding you dry and sowing discord in the so called would by members internal affairs. Trying or threating to get a advantage fore their selfish self profit driven greed with no regards to fairnes or lawful justest. Don't go running to the EU it is just playing and treating would by members as simpleton fools! It just legitimizes their actions in their warped thinking and emboldens the EU to be a law on to them selfs. That is from a organization set up to facilitate in free fare trade between members in Europe it has steped way beyond its intendant purpose and mandate.
Strange that it is the EU backstabing Tadic within one day of his narrow victory with the insistance that they will send in their illegal mission and you can't comprehend the link the EU are putting forth namely:-
we will let you in our club if you act subservient over the amputation and dismemberment of your State! We will promise you all the gold you want in the future just sign here...
Not only that but as one of these so called "friends" who visited Tadic in Belgrade clearly does not care what Tadic has to say about this illegal mission. Just to add salt in Tadic's stabbed back after his visit from Finland's Kanerva. While in Belgrade Tadic said yesterday "The EU can send its mission to Kosovo only with UN SC approval, President Boris Tadić says." as reported in B92 last night. http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=05&nav_id=47495
Look at the picture - Kanerva all smiles and standing side ny side - Friends indeed...
Today this so called "friend" did not give a hoot to Tadic and his words regarding Serbian Sovereignity - the very substance of a Presidents mandate;
"Finnish Foreign Minister Ilkka Kanerva says that Finland is prepared to recognize Kosovo as an independent nation. He adds that the rest of the EU's foreign ministers are on alert to respond, if Kosovo declares independence.
Kanerva says that current EU president Slovenia would convene an extraordinary meeting of foreign ministers in a matter of a day or so.
http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id81933.html
- surely now you can start to understand the duplicitnous nature with which Serbia and its newly elected President is being treated. Clearly you can comprehend that this is how the "few" are pushing these events since they are tantemount to all things illegal with respect to EU foundations let alone UN and International law.
One asks; Is Tadic so naive given that his friends one day smile and shake hands and then insult his very intelligence and judgement the next ? Is Tadic naive or what is happening ?
Unfortunately for us the things seems to fall apart, indeed. However, I don’t think that Kostunica tries to pass all the blame on the others. Actually, there is no one to blame for this. I dare to say that they all did the best they could and the best they knew. There is nothing we can do any more because we do not have support and cannot go against the entire world any longer, but we don’t have to accept everything and agree on everything. We still have right to oppose EU’s policy towards Serbia by all political means. I do not suggest any freezing of further cooperation (that selja Velja proposed) but we don’t have to smile them either. We must clearly show them that what they do is not right and that their deeds inflict injustice. In my opinion, the only right solution at this moment would be referendum and people can chose for themselves. If it was up to me, all important issues would be solved in referendums by the peoples’ will.
I cant help but feel insulted by this 'interim' deal. The EU are treating us like children. Maybe we are too proud and should just do as we're told. But that is not in our national character. We live and die for our principles, good and bad and no trickery will change that. 'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us. I am all for good relations with the EU, but respect is two way street.
Postponing the signing of this "deal" is probably for the best. It creates a bit of breathing space even if this was not the motivation of Olli Rehn.
This guy - Rehn - epitomises the new arrogance of the EU. He should have just announced the postponement and left it at that. But no. He had to have a go at Kostunica while he was at it. What right does this man have to interfere in the internal politics of Serbia? Simply, he has none.
I would advise all in Serbia to take a look at the Lisbon Treaty. If it is passed there will be a lot more Olli Rehns floating around. Isn't it a reflection of the collapsing democracy in the EU that only my country, Ireland, can stop this treaty. We are the only country of the 27 to hold a referendum.
Already our government and most of the opposition are urging us to vote "yes". But a strong campaign against the treaty is growing. Soon the entire EU will be blasting us with pro-Lisbon propaganda.
For the sake of democracy in Europe this treaty must be brought down in flames and buried. Remember, this is of gret importance to Serbia. I will keep you posted.
bmrusila for once I agree with you about "cannot fool Serbs any longer because Serbs are not stupid people and certainly not collectively mentally retarded"
bmrusila, whilst I agree with some of your points I'd say that we need to keep our own house in order.
Things look as if they are falling apart at the moment. Sadly that is because some political parties are trying to pass the blame of impending Kosovo independence onto other Serbian parties. No guesses as to who I am talking about.
"Maybe we are too proud and should just do as we're told. But that is not in our national character. We live and die for our principles, good and bad and no trickery will change that. 'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us"
- your words reminded me of the famous work, The Death of a Guslar, by Isidor Bajic that was told to me many years ago where the poet reminds us that thousands of muscians were blinded by their oppressors, that the Ottoman Turks "destroyed their worldly goods and harvested their hopes," but they could never make thse blind guslars sing praises of the pashas who murdered the sons and raped the daughters of the oppressed Serbian population.
good luck in your campaign - the undemocratic forces have blocked the UK's referendum and we all know why - Lisbon would be shot to pieces!
The reality is that the EU of tomorrow if Lisbon is passed through is not a place that Serbia need be a party to! This is not isolation for I am all for free trade and controlled movement of skills across the trade area but this is no longer what it is about. Your right it is controlled by failed politicians who unelected in their posts within the EU Lord it over us "simpletons". I truly hope teh Irish put a spanner in the works but of course then they will re-run it seeing as you clearly did not understand the dictat the first time round!
I fully support Kostunica. I have always had way more faith in Kostunica than Tadic. Why join a club if they are trying to dismember you? It is that simple. It is not worth joining if some members are 'more equal than others'. We need to stick to our true friends, and remain free and independent.
Lenard you have only yourself to blame. I bet you completely supported the independence of Croatia and condemned 'Srboslavija' right?
Well Jugoslavija gave us insurance against these types of problems. Now Serbia and Croatia are weak individual countries and yet its everybody elses fault right?
Princip friends is your interpretation. I dont believe in friends, I believe in interests. Anybody who knows anything about international relations knows this is how it works. So please quit using 'friends' it makes it sound as if you dont know how the system works - when I believe you do.
Besides its not 'friends' I'm worried about. Its much closer to home than that. Members of the government are stabbing their allies in the back. They are preparing an election in which their partners Tadic / DS will be blamed for the loss of Kosovo. They are briefing the media about traitors and patriots - using language which reminds us of the bitter divisions of the 1990's. Their inability to offer a solution is causing us to argue with one another. Instead they want to bully the majority of the elected government into supporting their position.
Princip for God's sake man the EU position hasnt changed. We knew that countries such as the UK or France supported independence. Big deal. You didnt really expect that as a friendly favour to Tadic they would change their policy did you?
"This is very strange since Koštunica recently intervened not to have Serbia's progress toward the EU halted, while now the Serbian prime minister has turned his back to what he stood for," Rehn was quoted by Beta news agency.
This is just another Serbian theatre in order to postpone the independence- NEW ELECTIONS in Serbia, hold on your declaration of independence might jeopardize the "democratic" forces in Serbia- well it’s not our responsibility to grow the Serbian ‘baby’ democracy- there has been passed almost 20y- it should’ve been adult already .
The crucial problem is that the Serbian leaders have no intellectual and moral force to face the reality and that is that KOSOVA IS NOT SERBIAN.
Everything else is just making a fool of yourself- which gives strength to the Serbian radicals, their electorate is fed with the stories of how fool the Europeans are and how smart the Serbs are.
bmrusila, whilst I agree with some of your points I'd say that we need to keep our own house in order.
Things look as if they are falling apart at the moment. Sadly that is because some political parties are trying to pass the blame of impending Kosovo independence onto other Serbian parties. No guesses as to who I am talking about.
(bganon, 6 February 2008 15:06)
It's how the butcher of the Balkans began his campaign in Kosova in '89. The biggest blame for the "loss" (what loss?) are the Serbs themselves, they allowed their own selves to be ruled by extremist leaders who offered greatness in Greater Serbia.
Now it's time to move on and accept your neighbors in Kosova. Time for Republic of Kosova and prosperity in Southeastern Europe.
far be it from me to assume i should/could lecture eu experts and excellent professionals and intellectuals that they are, because i know there is not a single uninspired incompetent bureaucrat among them. but: what a fiasco that mission decision one day after elections here. what naive nonsense to wrap it up in that agreement and send it on the same day, and what fiasco not to sign saa when you should have.
so what now, eggheads?
accusing kostunica and reminding me of how i voted? is that all?
well i voted for what's good for serbia not for what's good for the eu. i, and i think 2.5 million others.
the eu seems to have poor leadership and it seems to make decisions it doesn't think through first. well then i daresay we've got the likes of that here as well, thankyouverymuch.
The doc is not what Serbia awaited in exchange for Kosovo territory, but in any case after a week of neurotic tensions in Belgrade it will be signed. At least the kids can have a schengen to go to Budapest... Serbs are nothing different from other Europeans: those in EU are civilized nationalists, the destiny that awaits Serbs soon when they enter the boring group.
Luke- by pride I mean not forgetting ones history for some 'pot at the end of the rainbow'. By pride I mean not forgetting the sacrifices of ones ancestors agains insurmountable odds. By pride I mean sticking to one's principles come hell or high water. Pride can be a dangerous thing, and maybe Serbs would be better off without it. Pride and stupidity together is a fatal combination (present company excluded!)
"'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us."
Please enlighten me (without sarcasm or irony - I wouldn't understand it anyway :-) what is the proudness that West is wearing down? Proudness over what?
Respect is a two way street, I could not agree more with that. A little goodwill here and there would do good, also here in this forum.
K is not democratic, nor is he "pro-western" or moderate,... he is bad news, very bad, and represents the worst reactionary forces of the country and society. he is a dangerous demagogue and worse, and follows directly in the footsteps of you-know- who. ...
(robert0, 7 February 2008 07:20)
Well said Robert.
Although I do disagree for many things you said, I do agree what you are saying for K.
I am glad that someone already described correctly Mr. K but unfortunately that came from Albanian side. I am nationalist and don’t agree with Kosovo Independence but strongly agree on self-determination of the Balkan nations, for Serbs, Albanians, Croats and Bulgarians. It is silly crime to leave K-Albanians territories outside of Republic of Albania and in the same time to leave Srbska, Slavonia, Krajina ect., outside of Republic of Serbia or Croat territories in BiH outsite of Republic of Croatia. And to do a permanent peace in Balkan, it takes courage and not a politician “self-proclaim” nationalist with hidden agenda. Until those politicians will be elected to lead, Balkan nation will suffer. Thanks for pointing out some views that I share.
Milan, Бања Лука
Have you ever played poker? Serbia is playing poker now. In the next few months we will know if Serbia takes it all or loses everything.
It's a matter of luck and diplomacy.
Well EU promised to hook up Serbia, and Serbia was looking Fast ball swing for the fences and EU tossed a change up and Serbia elected Mr Tadic instead of Mr Nikolic now we see how the EU keeps it's word? They don't keep it.
does anyonme remember svetlana broz? one of the great intellects of (ex) yugoslavia, respected by millions, hated by (ultra) nationalists? when i first met and interviewed her, way back in 2002, i asked her about your mr. kostunica, mr. "Legal-eagle" of serbia. so what do you think of kostunica? i posed, back when zoran djindjic was still president, before the forces of reaction murdered him. K is not democratic, nor is he "pro-western" or moderate, or any other silly adjectives attributed to him by naive western media or in these comments. he is bad news, very bad, and represents the worst reactionary forces of the country and society. he is a dangerous demagogue and worse, and follows directly in the footsteps of you-know- who. if serbia wants to follow a democratic path, i strongly suggest it start by getting such people OUt of power, and pushing their leaders, like tadic, to live up to their "democratic, pro-western" image. i would like to add that i am seeing, or think i am seeing the (re)emergence of some authentically "pragmatic" and democratic voices in these postings, in the midst of so many shrill nationalist pronouncements. i welcome such a development, and hope to hear more such voices, in order that some real dialogue may one day ensue between different people and groups, rather than the usual hate-fest... i stil believe that when kosova is free and independent, things can ease up a bit, and those blgd politicians will have to find some other platform upon which to garner votes and support. any day now.
robert-0 from san francisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(in the interest of a fuller, more democratic media)
"This is very strange since Koštunica recently intervened not to have Serbia's progress toward the EU halted, while now the Serbian prime minister has turned his back to what he stood for," Rehn was quoted by Beta news agency.
This is just another Serbian theatre in order to postpone the independence- NEW ELECTIONS in Serbia, hold on your declaration of independence might jeopardize the "democratic" forces in Serbia- well it’s not our responsibility to grow the Serbian ‘baby’ democracy- there has been passed almost 20y- it should’ve been adult already .
The crucial problem is that the Serbian leaders have no intellectual and moral force to face the reality and that is that KOSOVA IS NOT SERBIAN.
Everything else is just making a fool of yourself- which gives strength to the Serbian radicals, their electorate is fed with the stories of how fool the Europeans are and how smart the Serbs are.
bmrusila, whilst I agree with some of your points I'd say that we need to keep our own house in order.
Things look as if they are falling apart at the moment. Sadly that is because some political parties are trying to pass the blame of impending Kosovo independence onto other Serbian parties. No guesses as to who I am talking about.
(bganon, 6 February 2008 15:06)
It's how the butcher of the Balkans began his campaign in Kosova in '89. The biggest blame for the "loss" (what loss?) are the Serbs themselves, they allowed their own selves to be ruled by extremist leaders who offered greatness in Greater Serbia.
Now it's time to move on and accept your neighbors in Kosova. Time for Republic of Kosova and prosperity in Southeastern Europe.
bmrusila, whilst I agree with some of your points I'd say that we need to keep our own house in order.
Things look as if they are falling apart at the moment. Sadly that is because some political parties are trying to pass the blame of impending Kosovo independence onto other Serbian parties. No guesses as to who I am talking about.
"'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us."
Please enlighten me (without sarcasm or irony - I wouldn't understand it anyway :-) what is the proudness that West is wearing down? Proudness over what?
Respect is a two way street, I could not agree more with that. A little goodwill here and there would do good, also here in this forum.
Have you ever played poker? Serbia is playing poker now. In the next few months we will know if Serbia takes it all or loses everything.
It's a matter of luck and diplomacy.
Janša, whose country currently chairs the EU, expressed his hope that Serbia would sign the political deal on Thursday, approved by the Slovenian government.
-I cannot understand why Slovenia tries to present this as is if she was some important factor in crating this political deal and yet Mr Jansa arrogantly states that the deal is approved by Slovenian government. Slovenia should keep quiet after shameful agreement with USA which came out to the public. Slovenia will do everything she is ordered to do and that’s it, no one ask Slovenia for the opinion. By emphasizing that deal is “approved by Slovenian government” Slovenia cannot fool Serbs any longer because Serbs are not stupid people and certainly not collectively mentally retarded. Mr Jansa, flirting so much with USA while same time Slovenia tries to preserve market for its goods is not going to work any longer.
“Greece and Slovenia advocate a solution concerning Kosovo’s future status that will stabilize the region in the long term, and keep the EU united,” said Janša.
- No, on the contrary, Kosovo independence will not stabilize the region but quite the opposite. I think that independence of Kosovo will have a great impact on the EU’s unity as well. And what do you think people, who will benefit the most from weaken Europe?
Princip friends is your interpretation. I dont believe in friends, I believe in interests. Anybody who knows anything about international relations knows this is how it works. So please quit using 'friends' it makes it sound as if you dont know how the system works - when I believe you do.
Besides its not 'friends' I'm worried about. Its much closer to home than that. Members of the government are stabbing their allies in the back. They are preparing an election in which their partners Tadic / DS will be blamed for the loss of Kosovo. They are briefing the media about traitors and patriots - using language which reminds us of the bitter divisions of the 1990's. Their inability to offer a solution is causing us to argue with one another. Instead they want to bully the majority of the elected government into supporting their position.
Princip for God's sake man the EU position hasnt changed. We knew that countries such as the UK or France supported independence. Big deal. You didnt really expect that as a friendly favour to Tadic they would change their policy did you?
EU is just playing a cruel game neither Serbia or Croatia will be let in until the new EU constitution is ratified if ever. The expansion is blocked at 27 members and their is strong opposition to having more members in the EU. They are just stringing you along trying to get consestions to their greedy gain ,unlawful advantage. All the while offering some kind of meaningless associate of the EU more of a colonial relation. They will give 101 reason why not ,all the while bleeding you dry and sowing discord in the so called would by members internal affairs. Trying or threating to get a advantage fore their selfish self profit driven greed with no regards to fairnes or lawful justest. Don't go running to the EU it is just playing and treating would by members as simpleton fools! It just legitimizes their actions in their warped thinking and emboldens the EU to be a law on to them selfs. That is from a organization set up to facilitate in free fare trade between members in Europe it has steped way beyond its intendant purpose and mandate.
bmrusila for once I agree with you about "cannot fool Serbs any longer because Serbs are not stupid people and certainly not collectively mentally retarded"
I cant help but feel insulted by this 'interim' deal. The EU are treating us like children. Maybe we are too proud and should just do as we're told. But that is not in our national character. We live and die for our principles, good and bad and no trickery will change that. 'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us. I am all for good relations with the EU, but respect is two way street.
Strange that it is the EU backstabing Tadic within one day of his narrow victory with the insistance that they will send in their illegal mission and you can't comprehend the link the EU are putting forth namely:-
we will let you in our club if you act subservient over the amputation and dismemberment of your State! We will promise you all the gold you want in the future just sign here...
Not only that but as one of these so called "friends" who visited Tadic in Belgrade clearly does not care what Tadic has to say about this illegal mission. Just to add salt in Tadic's stabbed back after his visit from Finland's Kanerva. While in Belgrade Tadic said yesterday "The EU can send its mission to Kosovo only with UN SC approval, President Boris Tadić says." as reported in B92 last night. http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=05&nav_id=47495
Look at the picture - Kanerva all smiles and standing side ny side - Friends indeed...
Today this so called "friend" did not give a hoot to Tadic and his words regarding Serbian Sovereignity - the very substance of a Presidents mandate;
"Finnish Foreign Minister Ilkka Kanerva says that Finland is prepared to recognize Kosovo as an independent nation. He adds that the rest of the EU's foreign ministers are on alert to respond, if Kosovo declares independence.
Kanerva says that current EU president Slovenia would convene an extraordinary meeting of foreign ministers in a matter of a day or so.
http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id81933.html
- surely now you can start to understand the duplicitnous nature with which Serbia and its newly elected President is being treated. Clearly you can comprehend that this is how the "few" are pushing these events since they are tantemount to all things illegal with respect to EU foundations let alone UN and International law.
One asks; Is Tadic so naive given that his friends one day smile and shake hands and then insult his very intelligence and judgement the next ? Is Tadic naive or what is happening ?
Lenard you have only yourself to blame. I bet you completely supported the independence of Croatia and condemned 'Srboslavija' right?
Well Jugoslavija gave us insurance against these types of problems. Now Serbia and Croatia are weak individual countries and yet its everybody elses fault right?
The doc is not what Serbia awaited in exchange for Kosovo territory, but in any case after a week of neurotic tensions in Belgrade it will be signed. At least the kids can have a schengen to go to Budapest... Serbs are nothing different from other Europeans: those in EU are civilized nationalists, the destiny that awaits Serbs soon when they enter the boring group.
does anyonme remember svetlana broz? one of the great intellects of (ex) yugoslavia, respected by millions, hated by (ultra) nationalists? when i first met and interviewed her, way back in 2002, i asked her about your mr. kostunica, mr. "Legal-eagle" of serbia. so what do you think of kostunica? i posed, back when zoran djindjic was still president, before the forces of reaction murdered him. K is not democratic, nor is he "pro-western" or moderate, or any other silly adjectives attributed to him by naive western media or in these comments. he is bad news, very bad, and represents the worst reactionary forces of the country and society. he is a dangerous demagogue and worse, and follows directly in the footsteps of you-know- who. if serbia wants to follow a democratic path, i strongly suggest it start by getting such people OUt of power, and pushing their leaders, like tadic, to live up to their "democratic, pro-western" image. i would like to add that i am seeing, or think i am seeing the (re)emergence of some authentically "pragmatic" and democratic voices in these postings, in the midst of so many shrill nationalist pronouncements. i welcome such a development, and hope to hear more such voices, in order that some real dialogue may one day ensue between different people and groups, rather than the usual hate-fest... i stil believe that when kosova is free and independent, things can ease up a bit, and those blgd politicians will have to find some other platform upon which to garner votes and support. any day now.
robert-0 from san francisco
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(in the interest of a fuller, more democratic media)
Unfortunately for us the things seems to fall apart, indeed. However, I don’t think that Kostunica tries to pass all the blame on the others. Actually, there is no one to blame for this. I dare to say that they all did the best they could and the best they knew. There is nothing we can do any more because we do not have support and cannot go against the entire world any longer, but we don’t have to accept everything and agree on everything. We still have right to oppose EU’s policy towards Serbia by all political means. I do not suggest any freezing of further cooperation (that selja Velja proposed) but we don’t have to smile them either. We must clearly show them that what they do is not right and that their deeds inflict injustice. In my opinion, the only right solution at this moment would be referendum and people can chose for themselves. If it was up to me, all important issues would be solved in referendums by the peoples’ will.
"Maybe we are too proud and should just do as we're told. But that is not in our national character. We live and die for our principles, good and bad and no trickery will change that. 'Wear down the proud' seems to be the Wests mantra towards us"
- your words reminded me of the famous work, The Death of a Guslar, by Isidor Bajic that was told to me many years ago where the poet reminds us that thousands of muscians were blinded by their oppressors, that the Ottoman Turks "destroyed their worldly goods and harvested their hopes," but they could never make thse blind guslars sing praises of the pashas who murdered the sons and raped the daughters of the oppressed Serbian population.
far be it from me to assume i should/could lecture eu experts and excellent professionals and intellectuals that they are, because i know there is not a single uninspired incompetent bureaucrat among them. but: what a fiasco that mission decision one day after elections here. what naive nonsense to wrap it up in that agreement and send it on the same day, and what fiasco not to sign saa when you should have.
so what now, eggheads?
accusing kostunica and reminding me of how i voted? is that all?
well i voted for what's good for serbia not for what's good for the eu. i, and i think 2.5 million others.
the eu seems to have poor leadership and it seems to make decisions it doesn't think through first. well then i daresay we've got the likes of that here as well, thankyouverymuch.
I fully support Kostunica. I have always had way more faith in Kostunica than Tadic. Why join a club if they are trying to dismember you? It is that simple. It is not worth joining if some members are 'more equal than others'. We need to stick to our true friends, and remain free and independent.
Luke- by pride I mean not forgetting ones history for some 'pot at the end of the rainbow'. By pride I mean not forgetting the sacrifices of ones ancestors agains insurmountable odds. By pride I mean sticking to one's principles come hell or high water. Pride can be a dangerous thing, and maybe Serbs would be better off without it. Pride and stupidity together is a fatal combination (present company excluded!)
Postponing the signing of this "deal" is probably for the best. It creates a bit of breathing space even if this was not the motivation of Olli Rehn.
This guy - Rehn - epitomises the new arrogance of the EU. He should have just announced the postponement and left it at that. But no. He had to have a go at Kostunica while he was at it. What right does this man have to interfere in the internal politics of Serbia? Simply, he has none.
I would advise all in Serbia to take a look at the Lisbon Treaty. If it is passed there will be a lot more Olli Rehns floating around. Isn't it a reflection of the collapsing democracy in the EU that only my country, Ireland, can stop this treaty. We are the only country of the 27 to hold a referendum.
Already our government and most of the opposition are urging us to vote "yes". But a strong campaign against the treaty is growing. Soon the entire EU will be blasting us with pro-Lisbon propaganda.
For the sake of democracy in Europe this treaty must be brought down in flames and buried. Remember, this is of gret importance to Serbia. I will keep you posted.
good luck in your campaign - the undemocratic forces have blocked the UK's referendum and we all know why - Lisbon would be shot to pieces!
The reality is that the EU of tomorrow if Lisbon is passed through is not a place that Serbia need be a party to! This is not isolation for I am all for free trade and controlled movement of skills across the trade area but this is no longer what it is about. Your right it is controlled by failed politicians who unelected in their posts within the EU Lord it over us "simpletons". I truly hope teh Irish put a spanner in the works but of course then they will re-run it seeing as you clearly did not understand the dictat the first time round!
Well EU promised to hook up Serbia, and Serbia was looking Fast ball swing for the fences and EU tossed a change up and Serbia elected Mr Tadic instead of Mr Nikolic now we see how the EU keeps it's word? They don't keep it.
K is not democratic, nor is he "pro-western" or moderate,... he is bad news, very bad, and represents the worst reactionary forces of the country and society. he is a dangerous demagogue and worse, and follows directly in the footsteps of you-know- who. ...
(robert0, 7 February 2008 07:20)
Well said Robert.
Although I do disagree for many things you said, I do agree what you are saying for K.
I am glad that someone already described correctly Mr. K but unfortunately that came from Albanian side. I am nationalist and don’t agree with Kosovo Independence but strongly agree on self-determination of the Balkan nations, for Serbs, Albanians, Croats and Bulgarians. It is silly crime to leave K-Albanians territories outside of Republic of Albania and in the same time to leave Srbska, Slavonia, Krajina ect., outside of Republic of Serbia or Croat territories in BiH outsite of Republic of Croatia. And to do a permanent peace in Balkan, it takes courage and not a politician “self-proclaim” nationalist with hidden agenda. Until those politicians will be elected to lead, Balkan nation will suffer. Thanks for pointing out some views that I share.
Milan, Бања Лука
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