“Kosovo-Serbian border”

Hang on - so if North Mitrovica wants to stay part of its own country while the rest wants to break away, then the UCPBM argues that it should be allowed to become independent. This is a strange and tenuous reasoning.

Kate, he did not say they want to become independent, all is saying is that if Northern Mitro joins serbia than they will join KOSOVA. For me this very logical. You have misinterpreted the article.

Unbelievable that such threats are being made. Kosovo won't get independance quite simply because the US will realise it will just never work thus there is no point to discuss the matter of Albanian populated areas joining Kosovo. GREATER ALBANIA PLAN ANYONE? If the Serbs proposed such an idea we would be called war mongers and aggressors!!!

kate wrote: "This is a strange and tenuous reasoning"

I wont say so, if you partition north of Kosovo, then it should be for the three municipalities mentioned in article. I am suprised that Albanians did not bring this into the table. This fact leads me to conclude that no matter what Serbia may say or want, someone promised that Kosovo is going to become a state on its own and that this is what is going to happen like it or not and Albanians are told just to participate.

Which is fine with me because I think Kosovo should become a country and not held hostage to a minority of less than 5%. I dont care about past events and history, churches or anything else, I care about the present, and if you talk about past and history then Serbs should have not settled there in the first place, only then we would not be talking about these issues. But what happen did happen and I am confident that Albanians would forget about all the hardship under Serb rule given that they get their independence. I mean look, there is an old saying I heard a while ago while I was in the region that goes something like this "what you sow today you'll harvest tomorrow" and this saying cannot be more true than in the case of Serbia and its people.

Kate: Seems to me you do not even know the Kosova borders. For your information Mitrovica is within the Kosova borders.
You must be georaphically naive to suggest that Mitrovica is in Serbia proper.

Maybe this is the best solution.
Divide the territory in ethnic lines and close the problem once and forever.
|Here too we will need compromises on both sides.
For those living in Mitrovica would not be ideal but we cannot sacrifice the Albanians living in Southern Serbia either.

Serbs in Kosova under UN will get everything while Albanians in Southern Serbia will get nothing.

Of course this is not acceptable.
I am not saying that Serbs in Kosova should not have those rights but the same rights should apply to Albanians living in Southern Serbia.

you see guys even now that the kosovo plan is still a plan, the others are indicating their own separatist plans. ahtisaari wake up!!!

"If the Serbs proposed such an idea we would be called war mongers and aggressors!!!"

Maybe you have forgotten that the Serbs not only proposed, but tried to force through such an idea with violence, military occupation and aggressional act against their neighbours. Their "Velika Srbija" project which ended in chaos for the Balkans, but a bigger chaos for Serbia ending with less ground than they had in 1988.

Strange that Kosovars should insist on Northern Mitrovica. As a Kosovar albanian friend of mine once said; 'it is not Kosovo.' It would be a face saving measure for Belgrade and the Serbian people. It would also send the message to separatists in the Basque region, Abkhazia or Quebec that provinces may secede but they cannot take the whole pie, the whole enchilada (as they say in California). Exchange N. Mitrovica for Presevo--not necessary. If there were no exchange we would still see Serb minorities in Kosovo and Albanian minorities in Serbia. Both need to be included, protected and respected in their countries. We don t need a greater Kosovo, like we don t need a greater Serbia.

In all seriousness, I've thought it over myself and think that partition of Kosovo is unfeasible and will only lead to further complications down the road. If the north chooses to remain part of Serbia, Albanians will have no reason to accomodate the other remaining Serb enclaves south of the Ibar. The argument will be "you have your own region of Kosovo. Go there if you want to remain in Kosovo." This will undoubtedly create a huge population shift north of the Ibar and virtually empty the other regions of the remaining Serbs. Key places like Decani, Pec, Orahovac, Obilic, and Prizren will be completely lost. Not to mention the P-Albanians will then seek integration into the remaining parts of Kosovo on the justification of land swapping. No, I think it's best that if the region secede, it secede as one whole unit, thus making it a firm policy for the government in Pristina to accomodate the Serb minority. Yes, you could call it bending over backwards for only 5% of the population, but that's the price to pay for gaining territorial independence.

when speaking of partition you guys need to expand your viewpoints to accomodate the Bosnia situation. when serbia speaks of partition it is CODE for north mitrovica AND bosnia.

Can anyone here tell me, what exactly is so wrong with a pure nation-state? Why are these philosophical europhile goons pushing down our throat this 'multi-culti' nonsense?

I think this is where both Albanian and Serb have common ground. They both should push these Euro-sophists to drop the multi-culti pretense and agree that in the Balkans the year is not 2007 but 1907.

“In all seriousness, I've thought it over myself and think that partition of Kosovo is unfeasible and will only lead to further complications down the road.”

Yes Mike, if done in a messy way without the support of both sides. If done through compromise and negotiation, then it could be peaceful if all sides agreed and the International Community backed them up.

However, at this point, we’re discussing Kosovo’s future, not Presevo Valley. If the Kosovars refuse to negotiate and North Kosovo partitions itself on its own, Presevo won’t find any international support for their cause. It will just make the lives of innocent civilians on both sides miserable.

The reasonable compromise is to partition Kosovo, swap Presevo for some of our important cultural areas. Allow the Albanian areas to join with Albania proper, and for Serbia to pay real restitution and make an apology to Kosovars.

Right now I believe many Albanians reject negotiation because they feel Serbia hasn’t been punished enough. If the Serbian government were to make a real apology and to undo the damage that was done, I think this could go far.

Anyways, looks to me like the International Community is headed towards another ill thought out train wreck.

To, Mike

This is the first time that I am agreeing with your argument. Hope EU, Serbian politicians, and Kosovar politicians realize that swapping land will only lead to more war, something that neither Kosovars, nor Serbs want. We are already separated within Kosovo, and we highly dislike each other. This will lay an iron wall between the two places. We should be living together and benefiting from one another. However, if and only if Mitrovica is given to Serbia then Kosovars need to ask for the Valley of Presevo. The only reason that I can think of, is that Kosovo is small when it comes to territory.

Peace,

"Their "Velika Srbija" project which ended in chaos for the Balkans.
Salih Shala"

Who are "THEY"?
What were "THERE" mission statements, proposals, and proof to back up your rhetoric?
Is it the three separate armies, 5 police forces, half a dozen specialist forces, and a mishmash of armed villagers protecting their properties??

Rather than perhaps insulting some of Europe's poorest 8+million Serbs, you should point at the 100 or so Serbian profiteers that are some of the WEALTHIEST in Europe. Please don't shame the Serbian Nation on their behalf.
Is it greatly different to what the Croats or Albanians did?

I really don't know what glasses you're looking through.

I guess it serves the forums right..If their's provacative people claiming an upcoming Islamic state out of Kosovo, sponsored by Al Qaeda, then there's bound to be the same jokers accusing of some phantom "Greater Serbia"..

Stick to the posts, don't jab in the ribs, and enjoy some intellectual commenting on both sides...

Particularly my brother Matthew, and counterpart Kreshnik (Krasniqi)....

Great job B92...

Kosovo should become independent with its current borders.

Later if Kosovo and Serbia want they can arrange to swap territories of Northern Kosovo with Southern Serbia. We know that populations there would like to join the other country, but we must respect the borders of 1974.
But if Kosovo and Serbia decide to swap the territories than I have no problem with that. It is also internationally legal and locally legitimate!

to Albion:

you are calling Kate naive? don´t you know that Mitrovica is in Serbia, as the whole province of Kosovo i Metohija is within Serbia?

you must have been dreaming...

if find it very sad, that the B92 guys are censoring so much. some can post racist comments against serbian commentators or Serbs in general, but if once something critical is said about the way the Albanians are behaving, it is not posted...

and then they regard themselves to be democrats...

once again to all Albanians insulting, and spreading allegations or even putting their wishful thinking into desperate letters...

by putting everyone who argues against your nationalist-goal into the same corner like Milošević or Mladić, you show that you didn´t realize that those cheap propaganda tricks don´t work!

and calling someone a racist, who never made a single comment about race...simply indicates that some writers here either don´t know what racism is, or that they are desperately try to rise ANY allegations, only for the cause of rising them...

but you are far from the reality, that´s for sure.

since there is absolutely no reason to give up serbian territory, KiM is of course not to be partitioned.

international presence is needed as long as albanian extremists refuse to come to reason, but ruling themselves within serbian borders won´t be that hard to accept, if the international community shows them that their is no playing around with internationally recognized borders...

ahtisari´s proposal won´t succeed.

I have been thinking about the partition proposal. Makes sense to me. It's good to have a multi ethnic society as Boris says, but in fairness Boris hopes to get too much from extremists who want to give nothing but burn churches. We like it or not,it's impossible to have a multi ethnic society with Albanians. We don't trust them and they don't trust us. I would say lets keep north kosovo and 50 percent of mines, give them the 2 poor towns of Presevo and Bujanovac, but not medvedja. Like that we can finally have a Serbia without albanians and hopefully without future wars.

If they really want independence, then, they give up 20 percent of Kosovo in the north and we give them 1 percent of south Serbia.

I don't think there will be any joining with anyone. This is a DRAFT people and it is still known as KOSOVO and not KOSOVA. Until it is ratified and signed by everyone it remains as is. I don't think anyone one from the western world listed Kosovo as Kosova. With group leaders such as Mr Kurti i don't think anything will happen anytime soon. Violent demostrations will not be tolereated, destruction of private property like wise. I believe self determination got a expensive but tragic lesson in how to conduct a productive protest. Loss of life was uneccesary but don't blame the authority blame those who think they can do as they please wihtout suffering tragic results. I ask all of those to revert to peaceful means instead of unorganized gatherings to force your point. Serbs protesting may curse the US and the negoitiators but i don't think any violence was used. Violence will get you nothing but bad press.

Dear Pijetro,

I'm not blaming the whole Serbian nation for the ethnic cleansing in Kosova. If that would have been the case, then you really would have cleansed Kosova 100% 'free' of ethnic Albanians.

However, we're talking about a state aparatus, a very powerful one. With one of the strongest armies in Europe, with a well experienced secret service. Combine this with maniacs, psychos and extreme-radicals in power together with charged murderers in para-military uniforms and you get a mean machine ready to slaughter.

Maybe the Albanians would have reached the same death toll as the Serbs if they had the same 'mean machine'. But 'luckily' they didn't have it. There was no Kosovan state WORKING to cleanse Kosova from ethnic Serbs. There were of course fractions of armed forces, however comparing them to a states organized security forces is just ridicilous.

Of course Kosova as a society will have to take responsibility for March 2004 (which is exactly what Kosova is doing by getting its souverignity limited). Just in the same way as Serbia has to take responsibility for it's past in Kosova, which is exactly what they will be forced to do, or should I say. Which is what they did in June 1999 when Kosova and Serbia divorced de facto.

The key for stability and normal relations between the Albanians and Serbs of Kosova, between Kosova and Serbia, and between the Albanian nation and the Serbian nation will be how ready the two communities are to take responsibility for what they were guilty of in the past.

Are we ready?

Hang on - so if North Mitrovica wants to stay part of its own country while the rest wants to break away, then the UCPBM argues that it should be allowed to become independent. This is a strange and tenuous reasoning.

Kate, he did not say they want to become independent, all is saying is that if Northern Mitro joins serbia than they will join KOSOVA. For me this very logical. You have misinterpreted the article.

Unbelievable that such threats are being made. Kosovo won't get independance quite simply because the US will realise it will just never work thus there is no point to discuss the matter of Albanian populated areas joining Kosovo. GREATER ALBANIA PLAN ANYONE? If the Serbs proposed such an idea we would be called war mongers and aggressors!!!

kate wrote: "This is a strange and tenuous reasoning"

I wont say so, if you partition north of Kosovo, then it should be for the three municipalities mentioned in article. I am suprised that Albanians did not bring this into the table. This fact leads me to conclude that no matter what Serbia may say or want, someone promised that Kosovo is going to become a state on its own and that this is what is going to happen like it or not and Albanians are told just to participate.

Which is fine with me because I think Kosovo should become a country and not held hostage to a minority of less than 5%. I dont care about past events and history, churches or anything else, I care about the present, and if you talk about past and history then Serbs should have not settled there in the first place, only then we would not be talking about these issues. But what happen did happen and I am confident that Albanians would forget about all the hardship under Serb rule given that they get their independence. I mean look, there is an old saying I heard a while ago while I was in the region that goes something like this "what you sow today you'll harvest tomorrow" and this saying cannot be more true than in the case of Serbia and its people.

Kate: Seems to me you do not even know the Kosova borders. For your information Mitrovica is within the Kosova borders.
You must be georaphically naive to suggest that Mitrovica is in Serbia proper.

Maybe this is the best solution.
Divide the territory in ethnic lines and close the problem once and forever.
|Here too we will need compromises on both sides.
For those living in Mitrovica would not be ideal but we cannot sacrifice the Albanians living in Southern Serbia either.

Serbs in Kosova under UN will get everything while Albanians in Southern Serbia will get nothing.

Of course this is not acceptable.
I am not saying that Serbs in Kosova should not have those rights but the same rights should apply to Albanians living in Southern Serbia.

you see guys even now that the kosovo plan is still a plan, the others are indicating their own separatist plans. ahtisaari wake up!!!

"If the Serbs proposed such an idea we would be called war mongers and aggressors!!!"

Maybe you have forgotten that the Serbs not only proposed, but tried to force through such an idea with violence, military occupation and aggressional act against their neighbours. Their "Velika Srbija" project which ended in chaos for the Balkans, but a bigger chaos for Serbia ending with less ground than they had in 1988.

Strange that Kosovars should insist on Northern Mitrovica. As a Kosovar albanian friend of mine once said; 'it is not Kosovo.' It would be a face saving measure for Belgrade and the Serbian people. It would also send the message to separatists in the Basque region, Abkhazia or Quebec that provinces may secede but they cannot take the whole pie, the whole enchilada (as they say in California). Exchange N. Mitrovica for Presevo--not necessary. If there were no exchange we would still see Serb minorities in Kosovo and Albanian minorities in Serbia. Both need to be included, protected and respected in their countries. We don t need a greater Kosovo, like we don t need a greater Serbia.

In all seriousness, I've thought it over myself and think that partition of Kosovo is unfeasible and will only lead to further complications down the road. If the north chooses to remain part of Serbia, Albanians will have no reason to accomodate the other remaining Serb enclaves south of the Ibar. The argument will be "you have your own region of Kosovo. Go there if you want to remain in Kosovo." This will undoubtedly create a huge population shift north of the Ibar and virtually empty the other regions of the remaining Serbs. Key places like Decani, Pec, Orahovac, Obilic, and Prizren will be completely lost. Not to mention the P-Albanians will then seek integration into the remaining parts of Kosovo on the justification of land swapping. No, I think it's best that if the region secede, it secede as one whole unit, thus making it a firm policy for the government in Pristina to accomodate the Serb minority. Yes, you could call it bending over backwards for only 5% of the population, but that's the price to pay for gaining territorial independence.

when speaking of partition you guys need to expand your viewpoints to accomodate the Bosnia situation. when serbia speaks of partition it is CODE for north mitrovica AND bosnia.

Can anyone here tell me, what exactly is so wrong with a pure nation-state? Why are these philosophical europhile goons pushing down our throat this 'multi-culti' nonsense?

I think this is where both Albanian and Serb have common ground. They both should push these Euro-sophists to drop the multi-culti pretense and agree that in the Balkans the year is not 2007 but 1907.

“In all seriousness, I've thought it over myself and think that partition of Kosovo is unfeasible and will only lead to further complications down the road.”

Yes Mike, if done in a messy way without the support of both sides. If done through compromise and negotiation, then it could be peaceful if all sides agreed and the International Community backed them up.

However, at this point, we’re discussing Kosovo’s future, not Presevo Valley. If the Kosovars refuse to negotiate and North Kosovo partitions itself on its own, Presevo won’t find any international support for their cause. It will just make the lives of innocent civilians on both sides miserable.

The reasonable compromise is to partition Kosovo, swap Presevo for some of our important cultural areas. Allow the Albanian areas to join with Albania proper, and for Serbia to pay real restitution and make an apology to Kosovars.

Right now I believe many Albanians reject negotiation because they feel Serbia hasn’t been punished enough. If the Serbian government were to make a real apology and to undo the damage that was done, I think this could go far.

Anyways, looks to me like the International Community is headed towards another ill thought out train wreck.

To, Mike

This is the first time that I am agreeing with your argument. Hope EU, Serbian politicians, and Kosovar politicians realize that swapping land will only lead to more war, something that neither Kosovars, nor Serbs want. We are already separated within Kosovo, and we highly dislike each other. This will lay an iron wall between the two places. We should be living together and benefiting from one another. However, if and only if Mitrovica is given to Serbia then Kosovars need to ask for the Valley of Presevo. The only reason that I can think of, is that Kosovo is small when it comes to territory.

Peace,

"Their "Velika Srbija" project which ended in chaos for the Balkans.
Salih Shala"

Who are "THEY"?
What were "THERE" mission statements, proposals, and proof to back up your rhetoric?
Is it the three separate armies, 5 police forces, half a dozen specialist forces, and a mishmash of armed villagers protecting their properties??

Rather than perhaps insulting some of Europe's poorest 8+million Serbs, you should point at the 100 or so Serbian profiteers that are some of the WEALTHIEST in Europe. Please don't shame the Serbian Nation on their behalf.
Is it greatly different to what the Croats or Albanians did?

I really don't know what glasses you're looking through.

I guess it serves the forums right..If their's provacative people claiming an upcoming Islamic state out of Kosovo, sponsored by Al Qaeda, then there's bound to be the same jokers accusing of some phantom "Greater Serbia"..

Stick to the posts, don't jab in the ribs, and enjoy some intellectual commenting on both sides...

Particularly my brother Matthew, and counterpart Kreshnik (Krasniqi)....

Great job B92...

Kosovo should become independent with its current borders.

Later if Kosovo and Serbia want they can arrange to swap territories of Northern Kosovo with Southern Serbia. We know that populations there would like to join the other country, but we must respect the borders of 1974.
But if Kosovo and Serbia decide to swap the territories than I have no problem with that. It is also internationally legal and locally legitimate!

to Albion:

you are calling Kate naive? don´t you know that Mitrovica is in Serbia, as the whole province of Kosovo i Metohija is within Serbia?

you must have been dreaming...

if find it very sad, that the B92 guys are censoring so much. some can post racist comments against serbian commentators or Serbs in general, but if once something critical is said about the way the Albanians are behaving, it is not posted...

and then they regard themselves to be democrats...

once again to all Albanians insulting, and spreading allegations or even putting their wishful thinking into desperate letters...

by putting everyone who argues against your nationalist-goal into the same corner like Milošević or Mladić, you show that you didn´t realize that those cheap propaganda tricks don´t work!

and calling someone a racist, who never made a single comment about race...simply indicates that some writers here either don´t know what racism is, or that they are desperately try to rise ANY allegations, only for the cause of rising them...

but you are far from the reality, that´s for sure.

since there is absolutely no reason to give up serbian territory, KiM is of course not to be partitioned.

international presence is needed as long as albanian extremists refuse to come to reason, but ruling themselves within serbian borders won´t be that hard to accept, if the international community shows them that their is no playing around with internationally recognized borders...

ahtisari´s proposal won´t succeed.

I have been thinking about the partition proposal. Makes sense to me. It's good to have a multi ethnic society as Boris says, but in fairness Boris hopes to get too much from extremists who want to give nothing but burn churches. We like it or not,it's impossible to have a multi ethnic society with Albanians. We don't trust them and they don't trust us. I would say lets keep north kosovo and 50 percent of mines, give them the 2 poor towns of Presevo and Bujanovac, but not medvedja. Like that we can finally have a Serbia without albanians and hopefully without future wars.

If they really want independence, then, they give up 20 percent of Kosovo in the north and we give them 1 percent of south Serbia.

I don't think there will be any joining with anyone. This is a DRAFT people and it is still known as KOSOVO and not KOSOVA. Until it is ratified and signed by everyone it remains as is. I don't think anyone one from the western world listed Kosovo as Kosova. With group leaders such as Mr Kurti i don't think anything will happen anytime soon. Violent demostrations will not be tolereated, destruction of private property like wise. I believe self determination got a expensive but tragic lesson in how to conduct a productive protest. Loss of life was uneccesary but don't blame the authority blame those who think they can do as they please wihtout suffering tragic results. I ask all of those to revert to peaceful means instead of unorganized gatherings to force your point. Serbs protesting may curse the US and the negoitiators but i don't think any violence was used. Violence will get you nothing but bad press.

Dear Pijetro,

I'm not blaming the whole Serbian nation for the ethnic cleansing in Kosova. If that would have been the case, then you really would have cleansed Kosova 100% 'free' of ethnic Albanians.

However, we're talking about a state aparatus, a very powerful one. With one of the strongest armies in Europe, with a well experienced secret service. Combine this with maniacs, psychos and extreme-radicals in power together with charged murderers in para-military uniforms and you get a mean machine ready to slaughter.

Maybe the Albanians would have reached the same death toll as the Serbs if they had the same 'mean machine'. But 'luckily' they didn't have it. There was no Kosovan state WORKING to cleanse Kosova from ethnic Serbs. There were of course fractions of armed forces, however comparing them to a states organized security forces is just ridicilous.

Of course Kosova as a society will have to take responsibility for March 2004 (which is exactly what Kosova is doing by getting its souverignity limited). Just in the same way as Serbia has to take responsibility for it's past in Kosova, which is exactly what they will be forced to do, or should I say. Which is what they did in June 1999 when Kosova and Serbia divorced de facto.

The key for stability and normal relations between the Albanians and Serbs of Kosova, between Kosova and Serbia, and between the Albanian nation and the Serbian nation will be how ready the two communities are to take responsibility for what they were guilty of in the past.

Are we ready?