Differing Kosovo stances at UN meeting

I guess someone must have told the brits that they caused this whole mess to begin with, so now they want to remedy the sitution :)

God bless the queen.

Everybody with exception of Russia said in one way or another that the will of majority in Kosova will be considered, and that is INDEPENDENCE. Sanda Rashkoviq stated that only Briton was open for K-I , but not Americans and French. How naive, has she been listening what US stance is on Kosova.

No Kreshnik, this is a continuation of the same mess. Hopefully somewhere sense will prevail and international law finally respected. Thanks for blessing our Queen - I take it you're referring to Liz and not Tony.

rather tame reporting by B92 (seems like a picnic of world leaders). reuters went out with this angle in their entire story:

"UN warns on Kosovo delays, Moscow sees blackmail....
Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin accused Kosovo's leaders of resorting to blackmail in threatening mass unrest in the event of more delays, and warned that fresh violence in Kosovo could derail the process rather than speed it up."

agree... but i would take ita step farther: the brits are the cause of every apparently unsolvable world problem.

The most common theme to this article in particular, is that the nations support more dialouge (sp?) between both sides, and no jumping towards hasty actions...
Just more beauracratic bantering in my opinion..

We'll see what happens.

In my oppinion there is no way forward for Kosovo, but independence. The same goes for Serbia actually. You may call it blackmailing or whatever you wish, but we all know what would happen if Kosovo does not get its independence. How could Serbia ever hope to control Kosovo again? And even if it could control it to some degree, do you really think it would be worth the effort? Althoug I am an Albanian I do understand the Serbs' grievances and attachment to Kosovo, but is Kosovo really worth more to any of you here than a peaceful and normal life? Does anyone here sincerely believe that the Albanians and Serbs would ever be able to get along as long as Kosovo is a part of Serbia? I don't. And I also know that the Albanians of Kosovo have much less to lose than the Serbs. They either get independence or fight! The same cannot be said of the Serbs though. They either move forward and forget about Kosovo or get mired in a long long conflict that cannot even hope to solve anything and will just make their lives miserable.

" Members of the United Nations Security Council stated last night that ... the final status solution must be acceptable for the majority population".

That is all you need to read. The rest is just filler. That one sentence is the essence of the article. And did she say Ghana and Argentina? Well if Serbia is pinning its hopes on Ghana and Argentina, the prospects aren't looking very good for them. Ghana will say anything the USA wants it to, in exchange for a case of bread. Argentina is so dependent on the US to control its skyrocketing inflation, that they will happily be the first ones to recognize an independent Kosovo for a bit more aid in loans. So I would stick with Russia, like you were doing before. At least they are better actors, and actually know how to make it look like they care about Serbia...lol!

A message to the Serbs

No matter what happens the Albanians will always govern Kosovo, since they have the majority of the population.

It is very improbable, but if the world decides to not give fully independence, Kosovo will be given veto right at the Serbian Parliament, all laws will have to be approved by Kosovo in order to be valid.

Blag, I think you are quite informed, but you disappoint me very much when you support nationalists, and defend the decision made by Serbian authorities to not extradite Mladic and Karadzic

i support more balance in the proceedings; am interested in constructing the best deal possible for serbs; and have a professonal interest in the legalities. deal making is not nationalism. it is part of the game -- cut the best deal possible. i consistently attempt to point out serbia's best position in the dealmaking game (which is prefectly normal and natural). it seems that those arguments sometimes cause offense (which i consider overly emotional).

as for mladic and karadzic. karadzic has not been arrested due to a pre-existing agreement and mladic is sick with cancer. i personally don't think serbia needs to deal with icty b/c it failed to indict tudjman and izetbegovic. only a teenager would belive that milosevic is guilty for everything. its intellectually offensive... and to me a political court.

however, it is the cavalier attitude toward long agreed upon legalities that i find of interest and fight against. i also don't think albanians are angels in this entire matter.

Maklen and Oliver have the two best comments here, both for their realistic candor. I agree with Maklen that Kosovo will be more of an albatross for Serbia if it remains within it borders. I still cannot see an easy solution either for or against independence, but I do believe that it will take either a lot of coercion from Belgrade, or a LONG process of reconciliation for both sides to cooperate again. Oliver's statement of Kosovo parliament vetoing anything coming out of Belgrade is also realistic, and so it would operate as a de facto independent region anyway. Again, I don't have, and I don't think any of us have, a quick fix solution to the problem that would bring stability and peace to the region immediately.

Kosovo independence should not be granted until thye can prove that their government is more capable of governing the region then the Serbs. So far the Kosovo administration has been dissapoiting and has used threats of further violence to push its point. This basically is a decleration of war if Kosovo-Albanians condition is not met. If the region wants stability they need to live together not create more hatred by pulling further appart. Kosovos future rests in good government whichever government that may be, but up to now neither (Serb nor Albanian) side has proven that they can govern Kosovo. To grant Kosovo independence on the basis that KLA and its allies will not terrorise the Serbs further is a principle which would not be accepted by any country espeically the USA and Brits. Too bad that no one (Serbs, Albanians, and West) trully cares about the Balkans people just want to destroy it.

bottomline is up to this time there is no common ground. members are not in the same page. therefore disgareements is inevitable which will lead to chaotic outcome. unilateral US-UK strike copycat of Iraq??? with many countries around the world big and small very much against their principles, I doubt. so wait n see guys. but for me it is clear that compromise will be agreed.

Win-win, that is the best solution for all. Ethnic Albanians need to understand that there never will be a 2nd Albania in Europe not in 99 nor in 2006. As Blag has highlighted in numerous comments and no definitive reply can refute there is no legal mechanism to enact such a catastrophic decision. It is not Russia but China that would veto such an objective of the US & UK. Accept the fact that you live in Serbia and work towards making a better future for all the peoples of Serbia. Conform to it!!!

This would be very difficult too for many Serbs who would not want to allow ethnic Albanians to have recognition and equality of rights. However, these such Serbs must be shown and taught that it is in their best interest for them and future generations to work and participate in a fair and open society and this is a more true reflection of pride in ones Serbdom then any masochistic gun totting ever could be. Maybe the Serbian Government in 2007 will redress this image of Serbia during the 90's and push this aspect further then it has done in 2006. Serbia of 99 is not the same state and this will become more obvious in 2007.


It is sad to read comments from Maklen and others who imply different peoples cannot live together "Does anyone here sincerely believe that the Albanians and Serbs would ever be able to get along as long as Kosovo is a part of Serbia?"

Why not and if not are you suggesting that the all the ethnic Albanians never ever wished to previously work in partnership with Serbs as part of Yugoslavia or in federation with Serbia & Crnogora? Such a stance does not bode well for the future in the region if this was a true reflection of the majority in all of Serbia and I don't believe it is.

I sincerely believe that a win-win is worth talking & waiting for and will come about and hope it to be in 2007 but will wait if need be just as 2006 was meant to be the year of decision it was not one that was win-win and as such the talks have been allowed to go on. Only a win-win solution that can retain international law and can offer hope for all the peoples in the region will be sustainable and provide a stimulus to economic development & growth.


Roll on 2007 and let the talks begin following the Ahtisarri "proposal" which will be a starting point for real decisions that are passable in the UN security council and acceptable to all. May we all learn that win-win and negotiations are all about compromise but ones where all are better off in the long-run - anything less will be a continuation of the same and will do little to solve the challenges facing the inhabitants of Kosovo & metohija.

a semi-effective government is way better than a criminal government.

I am not implying that different people cannot live together. Far from it. I would be the first to oppose an independent Kosovo if that entailed the expulsion of the remaining Serb population or any of the other minorities for that matter. It would shame me as an Albanian if other Albanians were to engage in such ugly activities. I have condemned the crimes committed against civilians in Kosovo regardless of their ethnic/religious background. It's shameful, it's a crime and that's it. I don't care if they are Serbs or Albanians or Roma or whatever.
But what I am saying is that in my oppinion the Albanians of Kosovo would never accept to live under any sort of Serb rule, de facto or de jure, and that is rather different from "two people cannot live together".
What do you think would be the reaction of former KLA soldiers and commanders if Kosovo were to revert to Serbian rule? Why do you think the KLA has so far not given up its stores of weapons? And do you really believe that the former KLA or the population at large for that matter, would just sit back and watch their dream of independence go up in smoke? I do not think so.
This is not wishful thinking on my part. I am tired of wars in our region which affect us all, even if we do not actually take part in the fighting. But unfortunately I am convinced that we will end up with another drawn out conflict if Kosovo does not get its independence.
And as far as living together is concerned: just look at the comments in this site and you will see that what I am suggesting is not all that far fetched. If comments could kill, I guess there would have been countless victims in this site alone!

a semi-effective government is way better than a criminal government.
(Kreshnik, 14 December 2006, 17:48)......EXACTLY, all the "albanians" have shown is that they are nothing but criminals. Look at the goverment of albania, they are corrupt and basically are a cancer to Europe. The co called "goverment" in place in Kosovo now is nothing but war criminals. Im just amazed that the world has allowed albanians to go this far. Im hoping that the U.N opens its eyes and sees the crimes that are commited against the Serbs on a daily basis!

forgot to add:

its about making the best deal possible. serbia and russia realize they may lose... but serbia knows it can receive compensation & russia knows it can get their way on something else. Should talks not prove fruitful for them they are building a system to get the most flesh out of washington's butt as possible. simple compensation. making them pay for it.

should the west decline... then serbia should threaten belligerance toward the entity (blocking its thrufare and hurting its competititve trade... and otherwise destabilizing the entity thru economic means). This should force the west to capitualate on some points. Russia is not necessary for this. russia is only necessary right now (phase 1).

before going to this extreme serbia should try to exact as much decentralization as possible for as many contiguous districts as possible; block a kosovo army; block a UN seat; craft language that is neither here nor there; avoid use of the "I" word; insert as many hard-to-reach conditions as possible; and get K defined as an EU administered province of S for the medium term. In that time they should play nice, economically enable kosovo serb municipalities to excel... while also promoting regional policies that make K's viability even more economically reliant upon serbia. In effect stalling for a future date while creating beter circumstances for the ultimate decision.

again, these are not nationalistic stances... This is hard-nosed business. tough negotiating stances. those offended should sit home and watch soap operas.

It seems that this page is becoming a chat room. People provide your opions and don't try to make a conference about it, cause non of you has the capacity to do so.

The security council was very clear on saying nothing except that whatever the status will be, it must be acceptable for the majority of population. This is the diplomatic sentence, its up to the media to translate it correctly to their audience and readers. I guess this is not happening in Serbia.

Betabe

'This is the diplomatic sentence, its up to the media to translate it correctly to their audience and readers. I guess this is not happening in Serbia'

You completey contradicted yourself.

Your statement implies that it is up to the media to interpret certain information correctly. So what exactly is 'correct information' if it can various intepretations? Obviously only something that falls in line with your views

I see that Great Britain now supports will of the local majority population in the provinces. So I suppose British troops will finally go home and Northern Ireland will become independent very soon?

How can the Kosovar Albanians honestly expect to achieve independence when they are so obviously mistreating the Serbian minority in Kosovo? A perfect example is the new highway being built in Pristina. The OSCE just commented that the public officials are misusing their expropriation powers and infringing on the rights of the minorities. People living along that highway are losing their front yards without compensation. Ceku can talk all day long about how Kosovo demands it's independence, but if he can't guarantee the rights of the minorities and allows actions like this to take place, Kosovo should not expect it.

If Russia and/or China veto it, G A M E - O V E R. Goodluck to all... its anyones game now. Its simple, Kosovo will go to whoever wants it the most / whoever is the strongest. Lets wait and see :)

Serbia has pinned its hopes on the geopolitical illusion of having the support of "mother" Russia, which, by means of its veto, is supposed to be able to impede Kosova's independence, still Belgrade's calculations are wrong because, even if Russia makes use of its veto against Kosova, this does not mean that Russia and Serbia will have the necessary political and diplomatic leverage to "freeze" the process of Kosova's independence for the sake of Serbia's colonialist reminiscences or for the sake of preserving the Russian sphere of influence in the Balkans. On the other hand, a Russian veto in the UN Security Council would have a positive historical and juridical impact for Kosova, since the unilateral recognition of Kosova's independence by the United States and its Western allies would certainly avert the eventuality of Kosova being given a "conditional independence."

I had to reply to this. There won't be a 2nd Albania in Europe. That Dear Princip will all know. It will be a new country called Kosova! Thank you for reminding us on and on about what did not happened in 2006,the thing is none of us can decide about future of Kosova, I know that's tough, but we have to live with that. There won't be such as win-win solution because people died in here. No matter what will happen in the future, thousands of kosovans lost their lifes, kosovan albanians, kosovan serbs,kosovan...,. What I don't understand is Dear Princip is that none of the politicians in Serbia apologised to families which lost their love ones. In UK as you know ordinary people often use "sorry" and "apologise" and for that they are most complete nation in the world.I just want to hear only once from the Serbian Goverment that word "SORRY". But that will never happen and you my dear Princip should forget about win-win solution!!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2007 to all of you human beings.

Oh please louie, has the KLA apologised for all the killings it's committed? Has Ceku apologised for his actions?
It's a two way street.

jeju, How in the world you can compare the killing that KLA did, which it was only soldiers,paramilitary and policeman with that of Serbian military/paramilitary/police , which killed women, children, elderly and helpless people ?.

jarina, if the west unilaterally recognizes outside of the un, the southern enclaves will be instructed to abandon while the north will unilaterally declare succession. of course no one will recognize the north, but neither will anyone stop the de facto partition b/c it would amount to an entire exodus. finally, unilateral recognition would most certainly mean economic blockade of kosoov by serbia.

Agim Elshani

I guess people like Anton Lekaj, an uck member who was convicted of killing torturing and raping serbs and gypsies contradicts your statement. He even got convicted for a rape of an under-age girl. No matter how mutch you deny it Agim, people will always know that the albanians also killed eldery, raped children and had little respect for any non-albanian in Kosovo.

To concerned,
Economic blockade of kosova by serbia!!! be more serious pleas.

Where is all the evidence of Serbs commiting mass murder in Kosovo?? The Nato bombing killed more civilians than the so called "genocide" that Serbs commited. All I see are Serbian homes and century old churches in ruin, thanks to Albanians. How can anyone expect the minority in Kosovo to be treated fairly, when Albanians cant treat one another like civilized people..

Win-win is worth waiting for - I hope it comes about in 2007. It seems that it is in no-ones interest to keep the status quo but anything short of win-win will mean at best a continuation of the status quo and at worst instability, more violence, partition and little investment from foreign investors - not exactly a future worth loking to for the youth of Kosovo & Metohija - ask the Bosnians! Without a UN resolution the situation will be little different and any unilateral declaration will just worsen the situation as Blag has pointed out. If this was to happen I would suggest that all Serb refugees form any southern regions of Kosovo & Metohija to head straight to the UK and request asylum, to concentrate in one region and then request the same that the UK suggests in Kosovo & Metohija - maybe this would highlight the precedence trying to be set.

"How in the world you can compare the killing that KLA did, which it was only soldiers,paramilitary and policeman with that of Serbian military/ paramilitary/police , which killed women, children, elderly and helpless people ?."

In response to Agim's comment defending KLA war crimes, I feel obliged to point out that as of this date,the only person thus far convicted by the Hague for committing war crimes in Kosovo is a KLA MEMBER NAMED HARADIN BELA.

Haradin Bela, was sentenced to 13 years in prison by the Hague for TORTURING & KILLING prisoners held at a KLA CONCENTRATION CAMP. Mr. Bela's victims included Yugoslav soldiers & policemen, as well as Serbian and ALBANIAN CIVILIANS.

It is a well known fact that in addition to terrorizing, uprooting, and murdering non-albanian civillians in Kosovo, the KLA also killed their own, meaning any albanian who wouldn't subscribe to their extremist views.

Can these Albanians give any creditable argument as to why Kosovo should be independent?? And how will this help anyone but the Albanians!! Theres a lot of talk by the Ceku but there is ZERO proof that the Serbs will have a better life if Kosovo is independent! And its mind-numbing to read what the Albanians write in this comment board. They bring nothing to the table!

These Serb sympathizers sure talk like they are angels, while at the same time huge mass graves with the bodies of children and women are being found all over Belgrade. You want to compare war crimes? Let's start with those trucks full of innocent kids that were found dumped in the Danube. Let's start with the hundreeds of civilian bodies found at the airfiled near Batajnica, Belgrade. Let's start with the burning of the bodies, Nazi style, in the Trepca mining compound. And how about the massacres of the likes of Sasa Cvetjan, were lining up and shooting 12 kids was lookes upon as fighting the enemy? No wonder we do not want to live with you anymore. And you CAN NOT, in God's earth, force two million of us to live with you if we don't want to. That you can take to the bank!

to jarina and others who discount embargo: go to the world bank website and click thru to the kosovo economy section. throughout you will find viability means kosovo must cheaply export its mineral resources to europe. mineral resources are exported by rail and ship. rail to europe or the danube must run thru serbia. once you are at the world bank website also note the current trade partners.

to amplify princip... i might also add that unilateral declaration means a lifetime of legal appeals and the green light to russian satellites to unilaterally declare independence (whether anyone recognizes or not is besidesthe point... no one will walk into russian territory). do you guys really think kosovo is worth that much to the west to upset the world's political balance and international systems to such a degree?

finally let me add another element that has not been adequately discussed on this site: the worldwide renunciation of american and british unilateralism (ir: iraq) which has reached its apex right now. the US and UK cowboys now must rely upon worldwide consensus to extract themselves from the iraq fiasco. there will be no more unilateral declarations coming out of washington or london for a very long time. their 15-year run as "out of control super power" has officially ENDED. we once again live in a multi-polar world... and the US has a lot of work to do to mend its broken reputation.

here's one more hurdle: notice that america has a junior ambassador running their UN seat.

RE:

Let's start with the burning of the bodies, Nazi style, in the Trepca mining compound. (Sidi, 15 December 2006, 16:20)

Absolutely no burning of bodies occured in the Trepca mine.

The bodies in Batjanica contained both Albanian and Serbian , it's still being investigated in the courts.

The killing in Racak were civilians already killed in either a cross fire.

The Bosnian Muslims killed their own civilians with three Sarajevo civilian bombings which were blamed on the Serb Military . The direction of the missles and bombs came from the Bosnian Military frontier. This was corroborated by Canadian UN commander Mackenzie, French Commander Morillion and also the English Commander Michael Rose.

"These Serb sympathizers sure talk like they are angels"
Sidi, I hope you realize just how racist that sounds, which is not the proper way to foster peace and reconciliation. There are plenty of us that love our Homeland, yet do not support the policies of people like Milosevic. I, personally, did not commit any crimes and to support my people and my homeland are not crimes in themselves. My hands are clean.
Louie, I agree that some strong statements condemning what happened to your people coming from the Belgrade government would be beneficial to all sides, especially at this time. For now, all I can offer is my own apologies for the suffering endured by your people, anyone familiar with my comments knows that I truly mean that.
I personally do not believe either side has to wait for the other side to apologize or admit their wrongs before they can admit to the wrongs committed in the names of their own people. Maybe we all need to start the process at the grassroots level, so our governments know they have the support of the voting population.
The crimes and abuses suffered by the Serbian people (and there was suffering on our side too) do not justify the crimes committed by Serbs against Albanians, or vice versa. Vengeance is not a valid excuse for anything. The fact that the other side committed crimes is completely 100% irrelevant in looking at the crimes committed by one's own ethnic group.
As I've said, I do not believe the Serbian people are collectively guilty for the crimes of Milosevic, we need to stop acting like somehow there is a connection. We need to realize that by behaving in such a manner, it only lends weight to those in the International Community who would like to portray us Serbs that way.
We need to condemn what happened, truly look into our own closet first as we are the ones in the best position to truly do so, and only then can we occupy the high moral ground and be able to condemn those crimes committed against us from a position of true strength. I do personally believe that Serbia is farther along in this process the some of the others that played a negative role in the events of the 90's. If we are to sweep our crimes under the rug like the Croatians did after WWII, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past again in the future.
I personally believe that some Albanians just want to punish the Serbs as a whole because they believe we are protecting and minamalizing those responsible for the true crimes that did occur. I believe that if we truly acknowledge those crimes that really were committed, that the more moderate elements of the Albanian population would be more willing to compromise and negotiate with us for a solution that truly protects the rights of Serbs and our culture in Kosovo. Some of them obviously feel quite powerless to enforce true justice against those responsible and will simply continue to lash out at anyone who might represent these feelings. They need to feel justice has been served in order to get over their negative feelings and that is perfectly reasonable in itself. We feel the same in many ways.
Start thinking about the future, and not the past. Both sides need to work together and come up with a real compromise or the International Community will shaft us both. Together we can solve this situation ourselves in a manner that is truly a win-win and not necessarily in a way that benefits only the interests of the International Community.

The problems that exist in Kosovo simply stem from the fact that the albanians refused to integrate into Serbian society, and had no respect for the country which took them in. Simple

Kosovo is in fact Albanian, but not only that, i read somewhere that the Serbian language originates from an old Albanian dialect. Additionally, Belgrade was the once the proud capital of the Albanian state.

I also read somewhere that the ancient Greeks were in fact, Albanian. Pluto, Aristotle, Socrates etc being no exception.

Sounds ridiculous? Well, the Albanians are on a role so why just stop at Kosovo?

Dear Mathew,sometimes we let our emotions speak for ourselves.I can tell that a lot of us in this fantastic B92 site are saying things without thinking twice.I am for building the new bridges between two nations, I am for a new start.But I think it will take time.The damage is done.My dear JEJU KLA was defending their own people from then very aggresive Serbian Goverment,same time they may killed ordinary people who co-operated with Serbia,but in this case we had a Serbian Goverment killing his own citizens,so I think it will be good if someone from the new goverment apologise to all families which lost their love ones.I am back to you Mathew as I think you are one most reasonable to talk to.I am only after that Kosovan People, no matter nationality to have a right to live.Anyone can remind me that Kosova is part of Serbia and on and on,but I think Serbia has lost Kosova in 1999.If I would live in Kosova I would insist that Serbia has got some good deal from this,maybe taking the debts which belongs to Kosova,letting serbs in serbian mayority areas to run the show,I would work very hard to tell to Kosovan Serbs that they belong in Kosova.When all this will come to an end we are really after a better life and I think all Kosovan People no matter nationality should have a right to decide about their future.Even though we have our differences I was expecting that at least one of you will reply to my wish so I repeat again:"Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2007 to all of you."

I guess someone must have told the brits that they caused this whole mess to begin with, so now they want to remedy the sitution :)

God bless the queen.

Everybody with exception of Russia said in one way or another that the will of majority in Kosova will be considered, and that is INDEPENDENCE. Sanda Rashkoviq stated that only Briton was open for K-I , but not Americans and French. How naive, has she been listening what US stance is on Kosova.

No Kreshnik, this is a continuation of the same mess. Hopefully somewhere sense will prevail and international law finally respected. Thanks for blessing our Queen - I take it you're referring to Liz and not Tony.

rather tame reporting by B92 (seems like a picnic of world leaders). reuters went out with this angle in their entire story:

"UN warns on Kosovo delays, Moscow sees blackmail....
Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin accused Kosovo's leaders of resorting to blackmail in threatening mass unrest in the event of more delays, and warned that fresh violence in Kosovo could derail the process rather than speed it up."

agree... but i would take ita step farther: the brits are the cause of every apparently unsolvable world problem.

The most common theme to this article in particular, is that the nations support more dialouge (sp?) between both sides, and no jumping towards hasty actions...
Just more beauracratic bantering in my opinion..

We'll see what happens.

In my oppinion there is no way forward for Kosovo, but independence. The same goes for Serbia actually. You may call it blackmailing or whatever you wish, but we all know what would happen if Kosovo does not get its independence. How could Serbia ever hope to control Kosovo again? And even if it could control it to some degree, do you really think it would be worth the effort? Althoug I am an Albanian I do understand the Serbs' grievances and attachment to Kosovo, but is Kosovo really worth more to any of you here than a peaceful and normal life? Does anyone here sincerely believe that the Albanians and Serbs would ever be able to get along as long as Kosovo is a part of Serbia? I don't. And I also know that the Albanians of Kosovo have much less to lose than the Serbs. They either get independence or fight! The same cannot be said of the Serbs though. They either move forward and forget about Kosovo or get mired in a long long conflict that cannot even hope to solve anything and will just make their lives miserable.

" Members of the United Nations Security Council stated last night that ... the final status solution must be acceptable for the majority population".

That is all you need to read. The rest is just filler. That one sentence is the essence of the article. And did she say Ghana and Argentina? Well if Serbia is pinning its hopes on Ghana and Argentina, the prospects aren't looking very good for them. Ghana will say anything the USA wants it to, in exchange for a case of bread. Argentina is so dependent on the US to control its skyrocketing inflation, that they will happily be the first ones to recognize an independent Kosovo for a bit more aid in loans. So I would stick with Russia, like you were doing before. At least they are better actors, and actually know how to make it look like they care about Serbia...lol!

A message to the Serbs

No matter what happens the Albanians will always govern Kosovo, since they have the majority of the population.

It is very improbable, but if the world decides to not give fully independence, Kosovo will be given veto right at the Serbian Parliament, all laws will have to be approved by Kosovo in order to be valid.

Blag, I think you are quite informed, but you disappoint me very much when you support nationalists, and defend the decision made by Serbian authorities to not extradite Mladic and Karadzic

i support more balance in the proceedings; am interested in constructing the best deal possible for serbs; and have a professonal interest in the legalities. deal making is not nationalism. it is part of the game -- cut the best deal possible. i consistently attempt to point out serbia's best position in the dealmaking game (which is prefectly normal and natural). it seems that those arguments sometimes cause offense (which i consider overly emotional).

as for mladic and karadzic. karadzic has not been arrested due to a pre-existing agreement and mladic is sick with cancer. i personally don't think serbia needs to deal with icty b/c it failed to indict tudjman and izetbegovic. only a teenager would belive that milosevic is guilty for everything. its intellectually offensive... and to me a political court.

however, it is the cavalier attitude toward long agreed upon legalities that i find of interest and fight against. i also don't think albanians are angels in this entire matter.

Maklen and Oliver have the two best comments here, both for their realistic candor. I agree with Maklen that Kosovo will be more of an albatross for Serbia if it remains within it borders. I still cannot see an easy solution either for or against independence, but I do believe that it will take either a lot of coercion from Belgrade, or a LONG process of reconciliation for both sides to cooperate again. Oliver's statement of Kosovo parliament vetoing anything coming out of Belgrade is also realistic, and so it would operate as a de facto independent region anyway. Again, I don't have, and I don't think any of us have, a quick fix solution to the problem that would bring stability and peace to the region immediately.

Kosovo independence should not be granted until thye can prove that their government is more capable of governing the region then the Serbs. So far the Kosovo administration has been dissapoiting and has used threats of further violence to push its point. This basically is a decleration of war if Kosovo-Albanians condition is not met. If the region wants stability they need to live together not create more hatred by pulling further appart. Kosovos future rests in good government whichever government that may be, but up to now neither (Serb nor Albanian) side has proven that they can govern Kosovo. To grant Kosovo independence on the basis that KLA and its allies will not terrorise the Serbs further is a principle which would not be accepted by any country espeically the USA and Brits. Too bad that no one (Serbs, Albanians, and West) trully cares about the Balkans people just want to destroy it.

bottomline is up to this time there is no common ground. members are not in the same page. therefore disgareements is inevitable which will lead to chaotic outcome. unilateral US-UK strike copycat of Iraq??? with many countries around the world big and small very much against their principles, I doubt. so wait n see guys. but for me it is clear that compromise will be agreed.

Win-win, that is the best solution for all. Ethnic Albanians need to understand that there never will be a 2nd Albania in Europe not in 99 nor in 2006. As Blag has highlighted in numerous comments and no definitive reply can refute there is no legal mechanism to enact such a catastrophic decision. It is not Russia but China that would veto such an objective of the US & UK. Accept the fact that you live in Serbia and work towards making a better future for all the peoples of Serbia. Conform to it!!!

This would be very difficult too for many Serbs who would not want to allow ethnic Albanians to have recognition and equality of rights. However, these such Serbs must be shown and taught that it is in their best interest for them and future generations to work and participate in a fair and open society and this is a more true reflection of pride in ones Serbdom then any masochistic gun totting ever could be. Maybe the Serbian Government in 2007 will redress this image of Serbia during the 90's and push this aspect further then it has done in 2006. Serbia of 99 is not the same state and this will become more obvious in 2007.


It is sad to read comments from Maklen and others who imply different peoples cannot live together "Does anyone here sincerely believe that the Albanians and Serbs would ever be able to get along as long as Kosovo is a part of Serbia?"

Why not and if not are you suggesting that the all the ethnic Albanians never ever wished to previously work in partnership with Serbs as part of Yugoslavia or in federation with Serbia & Crnogora? Such a stance does not bode well for the future in the region if this was a true reflection of the majority in all of Serbia and I don't believe it is.

I sincerely believe that a win-win is worth talking & waiting for and will come about and hope it to be in 2007 but will wait if need be just as 2006 was meant to be the year of decision it was not one that was win-win and as such the talks have been allowed to go on. Only a win-win solution that can retain international law and can offer hope for all the peoples in the region will be sustainable and provide a stimulus to economic development & growth.


Roll on 2007 and let the talks begin following the Ahtisarri "proposal" which will be a starting point for real decisions that are passable in the UN security council and acceptable to all. May we all learn that win-win and negotiations are all about compromise but ones where all are better off in the long-run - anything less will be a continuation of the same and will do little to solve the challenges facing the inhabitants of Kosovo & metohija.

a semi-effective government is way better than a criminal government.

I am not implying that different people cannot live together. Far from it. I would be the first to oppose an independent Kosovo if that entailed the expulsion of the remaining Serb population or any of the other minorities for that matter. It would shame me as an Albanian if other Albanians were to engage in such ugly activities. I have condemned the crimes committed against civilians in Kosovo regardless of their ethnic/religious background. It's shameful, it's a crime and that's it. I don't care if they are Serbs or Albanians or Roma or whatever.
But what I am saying is that in my oppinion the Albanians of Kosovo would never accept to live under any sort of Serb rule, de facto or de jure, and that is rather different from "two people cannot live together".
What do you think would be the reaction of former KLA soldiers and commanders if Kosovo were to revert to Serbian rule? Why do you think the KLA has so far not given up its stores of weapons? And do you really believe that the former KLA or the population at large for that matter, would just sit back and watch their dream of independence go up in smoke? I do not think so.
This is not wishful thinking on my part. I am tired of wars in our region which affect us all, even if we do not actually take part in the fighting. But unfortunately I am convinced that we will end up with another drawn out conflict if Kosovo does not get its independence.
And as far as living together is concerned: just look at the comments in this site and you will see that what I am suggesting is not all that far fetched. If comments could kill, I guess there would have been countless victims in this site alone!

a semi-effective government is way better than a criminal government.
(Kreshnik, 14 December 2006, 17:48)......EXACTLY, all the "albanians" have shown is that they are nothing but criminals. Look at the goverment of albania, they are corrupt and basically are a cancer to Europe. The co called "goverment" in place in Kosovo now is nothing but war criminals. Im just amazed that the world has allowed albanians to go this far. Im hoping that the U.N opens its eyes and sees the crimes that are commited against the Serbs on a daily basis!

forgot to add:

its about making the best deal possible. serbia and russia realize they may lose... but serbia knows it can receive compensation & russia knows it can get their way on something else. Should talks not prove fruitful for them they are building a system to get the most flesh out of washington's butt as possible. simple compensation. making them pay for it.

should the west decline... then serbia should threaten belligerance toward the entity (blocking its thrufare and hurting its competititve trade... and otherwise destabilizing the entity thru economic means). This should force the west to capitualate on some points. Russia is not necessary for this. russia is only necessary right now (phase 1).

before going to this extreme serbia should try to exact as much decentralization as possible for as many contiguous districts as possible; block a kosovo army; block a UN seat; craft language that is neither here nor there; avoid use of the "I" word; insert as many hard-to-reach conditions as possible; and get K defined as an EU administered province of S for the medium term. In that time they should play nice, economically enable kosovo serb municipalities to excel... while also promoting regional policies that make K's viability even more economically reliant upon serbia. In effect stalling for a future date while creating beter circumstances for the ultimate decision.

again, these are not nationalistic stances... This is hard-nosed business. tough negotiating stances. those offended should sit home and watch soap operas.

It seems that this page is becoming a chat room. People provide your opions and don't try to make a conference about it, cause non of you has the capacity to do so.

The security council was very clear on saying nothing except that whatever the status will be, it must be acceptable for the majority of population. This is the diplomatic sentence, its up to the media to translate it correctly to their audience and readers. I guess this is not happening in Serbia.

Betabe

'This is the diplomatic sentence, its up to the media to translate it correctly to their audience and readers. I guess this is not happening in Serbia'

You completey contradicted yourself.

Your statement implies that it is up to the media to interpret certain information correctly. So what exactly is 'correct information' if it can various intepretations? Obviously only something that falls in line with your views

I see that Great Britain now supports will of the local majority population in the provinces. So I suppose British troops will finally go home and Northern Ireland will become independent very soon?

How can the Kosovar Albanians honestly expect to achieve independence when they are so obviously mistreating the Serbian minority in Kosovo? A perfect example is the new highway being built in Pristina. The OSCE just commented that the public officials are misusing their expropriation powers and infringing on the rights of the minorities. People living along that highway are losing their front yards without compensation. Ceku can talk all day long about how Kosovo demands it's independence, but if he can't guarantee the rights of the minorities and allows actions like this to take place, Kosovo should not expect it.

If Russia and/or China veto it, G A M E - O V E R. Goodluck to all... its anyones game now. Its simple, Kosovo will go to whoever wants it the most / whoever is the strongest. Lets wait and see :)

Serbia has pinned its hopes on the geopolitical illusion of having the support of "mother" Russia, which, by means of its veto, is supposed to be able to impede Kosova's independence, still Belgrade's calculations are wrong because, even if Russia makes use of its veto against Kosova, this does not mean that Russia and Serbia will have the necessary political and diplomatic leverage to "freeze" the process of Kosova's independence for the sake of Serbia's colonialist reminiscences or for the sake of preserving the Russian sphere of influence in the Balkans. On the other hand, a Russian veto in the UN Security Council would have a positive historical and juridical impact for Kosova, since the unilateral recognition of Kosova's independence by the United States and its Western allies would certainly avert the eventuality of Kosova being given a "conditional independence."

I had to reply to this. There won't be a 2nd Albania in Europe. That Dear Princip will all know. It will be a new country called Kosova! Thank you for reminding us on and on about what did not happened in 2006,the thing is none of us can decide about future of Kosova, I know that's tough, but we have to live with that. There won't be such as win-win solution because people died in here. No matter what will happen in the future, thousands of kosovans lost their lifes, kosovan albanians, kosovan serbs,kosovan...,. What I don't understand is Dear Princip is that none of the politicians in Serbia apologised to families which lost their love ones. In UK as you know ordinary people often use "sorry" and "apologise" and for that they are most complete nation in the world.I just want to hear only once from the Serbian Goverment that word "SORRY". But that will never happen and you my dear Princip should forget about win-win solution!!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2007 to all of you human beings.

Oh please louie, has the KLA apologised for all the killings it's committed? Has Ceku apologised for his actions?
It's a two way street.

jeju, How in the world you can compare the killing that KLA did, which it was only soldiers,paramilitary and policeman with that of Serbian military/paramilitary/police , which killed women, children, elderly and helpless people ?.

jarina, if the west unilaterally recognizes outside of the un, the southern enclaves will be instructed to abandon while the north will unilaterally declare succession. of course no one will recognize the north, but neither will anyone stop the de facto partition b/c it would amount to an entire exodus. finally, unilateral recognition would most certainly mean economic blockade of kosoov by serbia.

Agim Elshani

I guess people like Anton Lekaj, an uck member who was convicted of killing torturing and raping serbs and gypsies contradicts your statement. He even got convicted for a rape of an under-age girl. No matter how mutch you deny it Agim, people will always know that the albanians also killed eldery, raped children and had little respect for any non-albanian in Kosovo.

To concerned,
Economic blockade of kosova by serbia!!! be more serious pleas.

Where is all the evidence of Serbs commiting mass murder in Kosovo?? The Nato bombing killed more civilians than the so called "genocide" that Serbs commited. All I see are Serbian homes and century old churches in ruin, thanks to Albanians. How can anyone expect the minority in Kosovo to be treated fairly, when Albanians cant treat one another like civilized people..

Win-win is worth waiting for - I hope it comes about in 2007. It seems that it is in no-ones interest to keep the status quo but anything short of win-win will mean at best a continuation of the status quo and at worst instability, more violence, partition and little investment from foreign investors - not exactly a future worth loking to for the youth of Kosovo & Metohija - ask the Bosnians! Without a UN resolution the situation will be little different and any unilateral declaration will just worsen the situation as Blag has pointed out. If this was to happen I would suggest that all Serb refugees form any southern regions of Kosovo & Metohija to head straight to the UK and request asylum, to concentrate in one region and then request the same that the UK suggests in Kosovo & Metohija - maybe this would highlight the precedence trying to be set.

"How in the world you can compare the killing that KLA did, which it was only soldiers,paramilitary and policeman with that of Serbian military/ paramilitary/police , which killed women, children, elderly and helpless people ?."

In response to Agim's comment defending KLA war crimes, I feel obliged to point out that as of this date,the only person thus far convicted by the Hague for committing war crimes in Kosovo is a KLA MEMBER NAMED HARADIN BELA.

Haradin Bela, was sentenced to 13 years in prison by the Hague for TORTURING & KILLING prisoners held at a KLA CONCENTRATION CAMP. Mr. Bela's victims included Yugoslav soldiers & policemen, as well as Serbian and ALBANIAN CIVILIANS.

It is a well known fact that in addition to terrorizing, uprooting, and murdering non-albanian civillians in Kosovo, the KLA also killed their own, meaning any albanian who wouldn't subscribe to their extremist views.

Can these Albanians give any creditable argument as to why Kosovo should be independent?? And how will this help anyone but the Albanians!! Theres a lot of talk by the Ceku but there is ZERO proof that the Serbs will have a better life if Kosovo is independent! And its mind-numbing to read what the Albanians write in this comment board. They bring nothing to the table!

These Serb sympathizers sure talk like they are angels, while at the same time huge mass graves with the bodies of children and women are being found all over Belgrade. You want to compare war crimes? Let's start with those trucks full of innocent kids that were found dumped in the Danube. Let's start with the hundreeds of civilian bodies found at the airfiled near Batajnica, Belgrade. Let's start with the burning of the bodies, Nazi style, in the Trepca mining compound. And how about the massacres of the likes of Sasa Cvetjan, were lining up and shooting 12 kids was lookes upon as fighting the enemy? No wonder we do not want to live with you anymore. And you CAN NOT, in God's earth, force two million of us to live with you if we don't want to. That you can take to the bank!

to jarina and others who discount embargo: go to the world bank website and click thru to the kosovo economy section. throughout you will find viability means kosovo must cheaply export its mineral resources to europe. mineral resources are exported by rail and ship. rail to europe or the danube must run thru serbia. once you are at the world bank website also note the current trade partners.

to amplify princip... i might also add that unilateral declaration means a lifetime of legal appeals and the green light to russian satellites to unilaterally declare independence (whether anyone recognizes or not is besidesthe point... no one will walk into russian territory). do you guys really think kosovo is worth that much to the west to upset the world's political balance and international systems to such a degree?

finally let me add another element that has not been adequately discussed on this site: the worldwide renunciation of american and british unilateralism (ir: iraq) which has reached its apex right now. the US and UK cowboys now must rely upon worldwide consensus to extract themselves from the iraq fiasco. there will be no more unilateral declarations coming out of washington or london for a very long time. their 15-year run as "out of control super power" has officially ENDED. we once again live in a multi-polar world... and the US has a lot of work to do to mend its broken reputation.

here's one more hurdle: notice that america has a junior ambassador running their UN seat.

RE:

Let's start with the burning of the bodies, Nazi style, in the Trepca mining compound. (Sidi, 15 December 2006, 16:20)

Absolutely no burning of bodies occured in the Trepca mine.

The bodies in Batjanica contained both Albanian and Serbian , it's still being investigated in the courts.

The killing in Racak were civilians already killed in either a cross fire.

The Bosnian Muslims killed their own civilians with three Sarajevo civilian bombings which were blamed on the Serb Military . The direction of the missles and bombs came from the Bosnian Military frontier. This was corroborated by Canadian UN commander Mackenzie, French Commander Morillion and also the English Commander Michael Rose.

"These Serb sympathizers sure talk like they are angels"
Sidi, I hope you realize just how racist that sounds, which is not the proper way to foster peace and reconciliation. There are plenty of us that love our Homeland, yet do not support the policies of people like Milosevic. I, personally, did not commit any crimes and to support my people and my homeland are not crimes in themselves. My hands are clean.
Louie, I agree that some strong statements condemning what happened to your people coming from the Belgrade government would be beneficial to all sides, especially at this time. For now, all I can offer is my own apologies for the suffering endured by your people, anyone familiar with my comments knows that I truly mean that.
I personally do not believe either side has to wait for the other side to apologize or admit their wrongs before they can admit to the wrongs committed in the names of their own people. Maybe we all need to start the process at the grassroots level, so our governments know they have the support of the voting population.
The crimes and abuses suffered by the Serbian people (and there was suffering on our side too) do not justify the crimes committed by Serbs against Albanians, or vice versa. Vengeance is not a valid excuse for anything. The fact that the other side committed crimes is completely 100% irrelevant in looking at the crimes committed by one's own ethnic group.
As I've said, I do not believe the Serbian people are collectively guilty for the crimes of Milosevic, we need to stop acting like somehow there is a connection. We need to realize that by behaving in such a manner, it only lends weight to those in the International Community who would like to portray us Serbs that way.
We need to condemn what happened, truly look into our own closet first as we are the ones in the best position to truly do so, and only then can we occupy the high moral ground and be able to condemn those crimes committed against us from a position of true strength. I do personally believe that Serbia is farther along in this process the some of the others that played a negative role in the events of the 90's. If we are to sweep our crimes under the rug like the Croatians did after WWII, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past again in the future.
I personally believe that some Albanians just want to punish the Serbs as a whole because they believe we are protecting and minamalizing those responsible for the true crimes that did occur. I believe that if we truly acknowledge those crimes that really were committed, that the more moderate elements of the Albanian population would be more willing to compromise and negotiate with us for a solution that truly protects the rights of Serbs and our culture in Kosovo. Some of them obviously feel quite powerless to enforce true justice against those responsible and will simply continue to lash out at anyone who might represent these feelings. They need to feel justice has been served in order to get over their negative feelings and that is perfectly reasonable in itself. We feel the same in many ways.
Start thinking about the future, and not the past. Both sides need to work together and come up with a real compromise or the International Community will shaft us both. Together we can solve this situation ourselves in a manner that is truly a win-win and not necessarily in a way that benefits only the interests of the International Community.

The problems that exist in Kosovo simply stem from the fact that the albanians refused to integrate into Serbian society, and had no respect for the country which took them in. Simple

Kosovo is in fact Albanian, but not only that, i read somewhere that the Serbian language originates from an old Albanian dialect. Additionally, Belgrade was the once the proud capital of the Albanian state.

I also read somewhere that the ancient Greeks were in fact, Albanian. Pluto, Aristotle, Socrates etc being no exception.

Sounds ridiculous? Well, the Albanians are on a role so why just stop at Kosovo?

Dear Mathew,sometimes we let our emotions speak for ourselves.I can tell that a lot of us in this fantastic B92 site are saying things without thinking twice.I am for building the new bridges between two nations, I am for a new start.But I think it will take time.The damage is done.My dear JEJU KLA was defending their own people from then very aggresive Serbian Goverment,same time they may killed ordinary people who co-operated with Serbia,but in this case we had a Serbian Goverment killing his own citizens,so I think it will be good if someone from the new goverment apologise to all families which lost their love ones.I am back to you Mathew as I think you are one most reasonable to talk to.I am only after that Kosovan People, no matter nationality to have a right to live.Anyone can remind me that Kosova is part of Serbia and on and on,but I think Serbia has lost Kosova in 1999.If I would live in Kosova I would insist that Serbia has got some good deal from this,maybe taking the debts which belongs to Kosova,letting serbs in serbian mayority areas to run the show,I would work very hard to tell to Kosovan Serbs that they belong in Kosova.When all this will come to an end we are really after a better life and I think all Kosovan People no matter nationality should have a right to decide about their future.Even though we have our differences I was expecting that at least one of you will reply to my wish so I repeat again:"Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2007 to all of you."