Friday, February 11, 2000.

B2-92: If the following days do not result in unexpected events and the quick realisation of the latest, and so far the harshest threats by Vojislav Seselj to non pro-government media, the attention of our public will be directed primarily towards the forthcoming SPS congress, the subject of today’s Yutopia. What, according to former member of SPS, Radovan Raka Radovic, could be expected to happen at this congress?

Radovic: Nothing will happen, just as at all the previous congresses, just as at all party congresses. I personally think that congresses of 1,000 people cannot achieve anything particularly constructive, all the materials are prepared in advance, the outcome has already been recorded in writing, you certainly don’t expect anyone to remember anything said at the congress several days later. I once attended a congress when we spent the whole day watching television, "Yugoslavia – A Step Into a New Century", nothing new there and nothing new will happen at this one either.

B2-92: As an illustration of these predictions, Radovic offers his version of the events which took place at the SPS election conference in Trstenik.

Radovic: As far as I know, the conference in Trstenik was worse than in the time of Communism. Namely, the lists were read out loud, lists which had been compiled previously, people adopted the proposed names with acclamation, the president, the vice president and the secretary, nothing new happened there, even certain people who have no place in any party organisation appeared, therefore, I do not expect anything new to happen in Trstenik. There are a large number of people who originally came from the opposition, a large number of people who belonged to other parties, who are now trying to obtain positions in SPS.

Journalist Aleksandar Tijanic told us his expectations of the forthcoming SPS congress: Something significant would happen if they admitted me as a member, I mean, I don’t know what you expect from that congress. I do not expect anything from any party congress, they will lay down proposals for the next two years. They do not expect any ousting of the authorities, I think they will say that they will defend their power at any cost. And what ‘at any cost’ actually means, we will, I’m afraid, eventually find out to our cost.

B2-92: Citing the political analyst Dijana Vukomanovic from the Institute of Political Studies, Nenad Stefanovic from the weekly "Vreme", well known among Belgrade journalists as somebody who knows the circumstances in SPS well, says that the Fourth Congress of SPS could be easily seen as the Fifteenth Congress of the Serbian Communist Party, because the Socialists remain true to the historical, ideological, cadre and organisational continuation of the Communist Party. "SPS is entering the congress with a halo, being the only party which has remained in power a whole decade after the fall of Berlin wall, without any divisions, without liberal or dogmatist wings as in other former Communist countries, with good amortisation of internal problems, without serious tremors despite drastic political turnabouts such as Dayton and with only a few renegades, including Borisav Jovic, who was once president of SPS, and former chief ideologist, academic Mihailo Markovic", says Nenad Stefanovic pointing out that all of them were generally left alone except, as was the case with Nebojsa Covic, if they continued to pursue political activities which directly confronted SPS. Stefanovic also emphasises the fact that none of them has ever had even remotely as great a position or influence as while they were connected to Milosevic’s accumulator.

Stefanovic: SPS is, in the first place, a one-man party. Their entire policy is dictated solely by Slobodan Milosevic and we can see that there is no real deputy here, no sharing in the decision making. At the same time, this party, as opposed to other parties, has a much broader internal dynamics. The chances of you becoming a prominent member of the party if you are from, let’s say, Vlasotince, from the provinces, is much greater than in other parties, which means that the vertical flow exists and it is one of their organisational principles. Furthermore, all of them often rotate their positions within the party. Milosevic likes to play with the same deck, he merely shuffles it on a regular basis, thus creating the impression of dramatic changes when there are actually no real changes being made at all. For example, what difference did it make that until recently Milomir Minic was the party secretary general and was subsequently replaced by the current secretary general Gorica Gajevic. The Suvakovic-Gajevic replacement, if it occurs, will be on the same level as with the Minic-Gajevic case. In SPS you have another organisational principle and that is the recycling principle: many officials move to new positions, this seems to be a punishment to us outside the party, but there are actually no awards or punishments here, it is a completely normal procedure. When the aforementioned Milomir Minic lost the position of secretary general, we all tended to interpret that as some kind of punishment for failed policies. However, Minic was later placed in charge of the Serbian railway, now we see he is again one of the most prominent members of the party, while neither he personally nor anybody else from the outside sees the fact of him once being the secretary general and today a prominent official as some form of demotion. Maybe a more drastic example is that of Branislav Ivkovic, who until 1996, until the local elections, was the president of SPS in Belgrade. After a defeat at the local elections, he, along with Nebojsa Covic, the Belgrade mayor at the time, were marked by the Central Committee as the main culprits for the loss of Belgrade. He was then given a rather severe party punishment, I don’t know whether it was meant to be a final warning, but he admitted to his share in the loss of power in Belgrade. Several months later, however, he became a minister and we currently see him being promoted to president of the Vracar Municipal Committee. On the one side, if you look at it through the party hierarchy, it is a terrible demotion. SPS has no seats in the Municipal Assembly, but I think that Mr. Ivkovic has actually been honoured, because the Socialists are making intense preparations for the local elections and I think that that is going to be the main feature of the congress. Cards will be shuffled from the same deck again, but the most prominent players will be appointed to lead municipal branches and may as early as tomorrow find themselves heading the list at the local elections in those municipalities.

Raka Radovic regarding the chances of replacements being made at the top of SPS: I don’t see any replacements, the merry go round will probably move a further 15 degrees, since there are only 5-6 of them who spin at the top.

B2-92: The most famous SPS officials have found themselves in crucial positions within the municipal and city committees of a party which intends to bring back the lost local self-management in such a way. But why do SPS think this will increase their ratings when people know those officials are members of SPS?

Bosko Perosevic, president of the Vojvodina government and the Novi Sad SPS Municipal Committee: The appointment of those officials with a certain integrity and credit to the most difficult places, places where we have lost local elections or where we do not have enough seats, like in Stari grad in Belgrade or in Novi Sad where we lost, means that we want to do everything in our power to improve our ratings, to win in certain areas and towns. I fully expect us to win the elections at local level because in the majority of cities the current authorities did not turn out to have what is required, not in the sense of blanket statements, but simply in results. They will have to come out at the local elections with a list of what they have achieved, and they will have few things to put on such a list. We will watch closely, we will not allow empty talk, something more concrete will have to be shown..

One of the rare cases of someone very important in SPS leaving the position of a committee president is Dragan Tomic, who was replaced by Ivica Dacic as head of the Belgrade Socialists. We asked Branislav Ivkovic whether that meat that Tomic had not lived up to expectations in that position or was something else in question here: Mr. Tomic took over the Belgrade Socialists at a difficult time, he consolidated the branch and led the party successfully through all elections, from republic, through presidential elections to a referendum. SPS has decided that at the present time it needs people who are not engaged on so many fronts, people who have great experience and youth, like Ivica, therefore, Dragan Tomic has taken over another position. He has worked well, he has passed on his role to Ivica now, and let me remind you that he is also president of the Serbian Parliament and director of a large company the Serbian economy largely depends on.

Nenad Stefanovic comments on the replacement made at the top of the Belgrade Socialists: The Belgrade position may be the most prominent one, in my opinion, maybe even more important than the position of secretary general. On one hand, it is a rejuvenation, on the other hand it is the de-accumulation of Dragan Tomic, who probably holds the world record for the number of official positions held, for the number of Managing Boards of which he is a member, for sports associations he heads: so everything clicks in that sense. That does not mean that Dacic has suddenly become a shining new star in SPS, nor that Tomic has started to fade. It is a normal rotation.

B2-92: The return of certain individuals to more significant positions in SPS, referred to by Nenad Stefanovic as ‘recycling’, is noted in the case of Bosko Perosevic, president of Vojvodina’s Executive Council, who was recently elected head of the Socialists in Novi Sad.

Stefanovic: To my knowledge, Bosko Perosevic was also marked in their internal discussions as a failure in Novi Sad and parts of Vojvodina at local elections several years ago. Now we see that in the meantime his position within the party has again improved and that he has become president of the Novi Sad branch under very interesting circumstances. As far as I know, the Municipal Committees initially declared that Cikos, I think, the former president of the NS Socialists, should remain in that position, and then Radovan Pankov brought the news from Belgrade that Perosevic was in fact the new president, there was a little grumbling then, but in the end Bosko Perosevic was elected. A similar thing happened in Zrenjanin where almost 80 per cent of the Municipal Committees proposed the incumbent man for that position and then again the instruction from Belgrade arrived that it would be an altogether different man because the Central Committee had so decided. The situation was resolved as the Central Committee had demanded. A Socialist told me an interesting thing, that most often people in the party cross themselves three times when somebody is appointed to some function and only once when he is replaced. All those official staffing changes, the ones prior to this congress and the ones which could happen at the congress itself, are in the end, I think, merely a kind of foam, something floating on the surface, which should not be seen as anything serious, it is the normal dynamics within this party and I think that one should not draw too large a conclusion about the turnovers, it all serves towards the preparations currently underway to win the local elections, which could easily be crucial for the future of this party.

Bosko Perosevic is, according to all recent surveys, one of the most popular personalities in Novi Sad, he is known as a moderate and obedient SPS official. When asked whether he sees the position of president of the Novi Sad Socialists as a demotion (he was once the vice president of the party), or as a promotion (since the last local elections he has had no important party position), Perosevic replied: I was once president of the province’s committee when we convincingly won the regional elections and I was also vice president of the party. Therefore, this is a challenge for me to attempt to turn around the current situation where we are the opposition and win, or to at the very least improve our current ratings with a quality team and a healthy initiative and plans tailored according to the needs of Novi Sad and its citizens.

Raka Radovic regarding the ‘recycling’ of officials in SPS: It’s a mystery to me, first they throw the man out, then they sweep the floor with him and say, "He is this and he is that", and then they return him as vice president of the party, then they throw him out again; to me, that is merely an indicator of the irresponsibility of a party. You cannot deal with people like that, people cannot be dragged through mud like that, one minute like this, the next like that, you can do that with those who depend on politics, but with those who do not depend on politics, those who are independent, you simply cannot do it. I am not bitter at all, because I know that involvement in politics means being prepared to anything at any time without bitterness. I never dreamt this would happen to me, but it did, I’ve seen it happen to other people, who burnt passionately when it was necessary and jumped into the fire as required, and then they threw them out just the same. Thank God I do not depend on them.

B2-92: There is almost nobody who would bet on the likelihood of any criticism of SPS being heard at the congress, primarily because among the chosen delegates there are none of those inclined towards such criticism.

Bosko Perosevic: I don’t think so, I think those are every day political shenanigans.

And to our question whether it is really true that he does not have a single complaint about his party, Bosko Perosevic replied: Even if I had, I would express it inside the party, never publicly, because it is my party, I am a part of it and I will always remain true to my principles and consistent to my leftist determination.

Why is it unnatural for SPS to publicly expose disagreements inside the party except in the case of someone’s dismissal from the party? Bosko Perosevic: It means that we are a well-organised party, like a well-organised business, a household which solves its problems within the home; where there is a lack of good organisation, no host in the house, information spreads, things spill out onto the street and that’s not a good thing.

B2-92: Due to the current situation in Kosovo, apart from internal relations in SPS, the attention is on the situation of SPS in the province and on those SPS officials who left the province first, before the local population.

Nenad Stefanovic: The Kosovo Socialists, that’s a pretty painful subject for the party. I don’t know to what extent those wounds will be reopened at the congress itself. In any case, Zivorad Igic deserved the position because he was the last among the prominent Socialists to leave Pristina and only did so after he was severely beaten. Of course, many of the Socialists simply had to leave Kosovo in the first place, it was very difficult to stay in Pristina and I think it is quite logical that many of them left and it is difficult to hold such actions against them. However, we have recently heard that the Socialists from Kosovo Polje are rather dissatisfied with the fact that all the leading Socialists from Kosovo Polje left for Belgrade a long time ago, some of them were federal, some of them were republic representatives, and Socialists from Kosovo Polje are demanding the same as the opposition – that the MP mandates and the right to speak in the name of that community be taken away from those people on their departure from the province. Yesterday we were informed that the province’s conference was held in Zvecane, and as far as I know, more than 70 per cent of the delegates came from Serbia. I think that the Socialists are trying to consolidate their network, the infrastructure they lost using the fact that a huge number of people had to leave.

Zivorad Igic had this to say regarding the staffing solutions in the province’s SPS and as to whether he expected to be elected president: I was not thinking about being elected or not. There are rules regarding the election of senior officials in our party, rules according to which senior positions go to those who deserve them, those who have proved successful in the past. This is the third election of the province’s branch president for me since 1992, so I have studied those rules and fulfilled them twice before. When it comes to new staffing solutions, I can say that despite all the problems, primarily those pertaining to safety and communication, we have managed to a considerable extent to renew the province’s branch with new people. Strengthening of the official team is something that has yet to happen to us in Kosovo, because the state this part of Serbia currently finds itself in demands constant activity in all fields of life, including staffing policy.

Zivorad Igic says that the question of those SPS officials who left Kosovo is very important, because you have those who were expelled by terrorists along with the local people and who are working in the interests of the province every day, but there is also another side to the story. Igic: There are those who left before it was necessary, because they did so before the local people around them. There are also those who broke off any communication with the people in Kosovo as well as with those displaced persons in Serbia and Montenegro. Finally, there are those who, it seemed, waited for those events to occur in that part of Serbia so that they could move into houses and apartments they had secured before, I must say, mainly while they were in those positions in Kosovo. Not only had such people not been elected to any particular position, they had not even been proposed for any managerial position at election meetings, not even in the local committees. Even if some of them got away with it, it is quite certain they will be got rid of during the further strengthening of staff and officials in both provincial and municipal organisations. Such individuals were discussed at all levels, from local, through municipal, to the province’s organisation itself. There is a unanimous demand not to paint everyone with the same brush, the right and the wrong, the innocent and the guilty, the honest and the profiteers, and I hope we will soon have a report on such individuals.

Former and demoted SPS officials, who were sacked from the party, such as Radovan Radovic from Trstenik, often say that the biggest problem is – THE JULISATION OF SPS: It’s been done and all those who failed to go through the ‘julisation’ failed to obtain positions, and those who did not accept them – lost their positions, the loudest among them have been sacked. I have first-hand information of this, I can even prove it on paper, one of the leading JUL officials simply tells the SPS officials, "Either you’ll enter individually, or you’ll enter in a group when it comes to it". When that is going to be, I don’t know. Search the pockets of those up there who we think are SPS, I assure you in 90 per cent of the cases you will find a JUL membership card. He, as president, has never told me what his intentions towards JUL are, what JUL is, whose organisation JUL is – he has never come to us to explain it, those things went past us, I watched people jumping over, we laughed at them; as soon as somebody jumped over – he jumped onto the executive board or some other forum, and those who did not jump over were eradicated. Gorica Gajevic advanced when she went to Raska with Mira Markovic, to a JUL promotion in Pazar, since then she has been promoted at an incredible speed and nobody can do anything to stop her any more. This is no longer my party – my party had 194 MPs, this one no longer has that. I was dismissed from SPS, but those who dismissed me, they are no longer SPS either.

Bosko Perosevic made the following comments on claims about the so-called JULISATION of SPS: I think those are daily political analyses intended to create divisions and disputes among the Socialists and that has nothing to do with the original concept. This is simply intended to shake up the unity of our party and I am sure it will not succeed, it is in fact not succeeding, anybody can see that there are no divisions or disputes within our party, any kind of julisation" of our party is out of the question. Our program is clear, defined and it will remain so.

Branislav Ivkovic gave us his comments on "julisation": I don’t like the term "former", I prefer to say the previous officials. The trouble is that the previous officials often feel like former ones and every official that feels former has the right to be angry and to seek explanation for such a position and for the use of the term ‘former’ from others rather than from himself. The view that JUL influences the staffing policy of SPS in any way has no grounds at all. They can suggest something or express their dissatisfaction, I know about a specific official they are dissatisfied with, but that particular official is still doing his job. Within SPS you have a staffing policy for SPS, and those previous officials who act like former officials have a right to their own opinion.

This is what Zivorad Igic has to say about claims made by former SPS officials that JUL is taking over SPS positions: I don’t know what our previous party comrades think, but JUL and SPS are autonomous parties. Firstly, you have the example of the province’s committee for Kosovo, those are all Socialists, and secondly, I don’t share that opinion at all.

Nenad Stefanovic comments on claims that JUL is taking over SPS: What hurts those local Socialists the most is the fact that when they perform well in elections somebody from YUL shows up afterwards with a list and says, "Now we are going to share these positions", without any regard for the number of votes and it is something that constantly troubles that party. At the same time, among those who analyse the political scene very seriously, there are opinions that JUL was established and promoted in order to occupy the left political space, in order to prevent any serious social-democratic party from appearing there. On the other hand, there are those who think that JUL was established solely for the purpose of preparing the ground for the socialdemocratisation of SPS itself one day. There are those who think that primarily in the time of Dayton, when SPS severed its ties with the Radicals, walking across that small, creepy bridge called JUL, stripped itself of the image of a nationalist party and plunged into the Dayton Agreement. That is why most of the Socialists themselves are not clear about the practical role of JUL. They know and sense that JUL brings in few votes, but otherwise takes away a lot.

Nenad Stefanovic’s views on whether SPS is losing not only because of YUL, but because it has to give something to the Radicals as well: It is hard to determine whose role in that love triangle is to be in an obtuse angle and who actually profits from it. There are also various opinions about it. One such opinion is that SPS is suffering for everything, that all the time the Radicals are learning how to rule and are observing things from inside, entering institutions so that one day they will be able to take over the power. At the same time there are those who think that the Socialists will at a certain moment throw the burden of guilt for all their failures over the deck to their coalition partners and resume alone. However, I don’t think the time is right for such an event, because in the case where you have approaching elections with the possibility of the opposition appearing with a joint list, the Socialists don’t have too much choice in musings over cooperation with their coalition partners than to continue as they have done so far. I think the average Socialist could take satisfaction from this congress regarding the fact that the strongest SPS officials are taking up leading positions in municipalities and one of the interpretations within the party is that they are thus indicating to JUL who will be the boss on the ground in the future. In the case where you have Branislav Ivkovic in Vracar, it is obvious that someone from JUL is not going to be at the top of the list, because they are obviously having a go at that municipality in order to win.

Stefanovic points out that you should not forget the circumstances outside SPS, which will overshadow the forthcoming congress: We must not forget that in a few days, in fact on Monday, if I’m not mistaken, the EU will most probably lift part of the sanctions relating to air traffic, and at the same time extend the list of 150-160 names of people mainly close to the regime who are banned from leaving this country. We also have the announcement of NATO manoeuvres in Kosovo at the time, which is certainly not pleasant news, we have the opposition announcing various manoeuvres in front of the Sava Centre, calls on citizens to gather and express their dissatisfaction with the Socialists’ policies, there is a whole series of mysterious murders in Belgrade and all that should, logically, homogenise the Socialists. The congress should send out a message of unity, I don’t know to what extent it will be a mobilising one, but they will more or less concentrate on the forthcoming elections, and if any new pressure from the side on the media and NGOs ensues, it should come as no surprise since it is something we have been living with for the last ten years.

B2-92: Ivan Kovacevic, SPO spokesman, said that all the dissatisfied citizens can and should express their stance against the current authorities. "If citizens decide to express their discontent, it is normal for everybody from the opposition to be on their side," Kovacevic said. After that, some opposition parties expressed their doubts that any kind of gathering in front of the Sava Centre would bring any concrete results, while some said that if that happened they might join.

Miladin Kovacevic, advisor to the SPO president: The SPO and democratic opposition think that Serbia and its citizens have no perspective, or even the chance of biological survival without a change in the current regime through democratic and fair elections. In their fight for such general elections, on January 10, the democratic opposition set March as a time when it will request massive and strong support from the citizens in order to realise that goal. SPO points out the terror, unlawfulness and repression of the regime every day, and their congress does not concern us. Regarding the statement made by the SPS Central Committee that the ruling regime have decided to liberate Belgrade, SPO would like to tell them: please, do not liberate us any more.

Branislav Ivkovic comments on the possible gathering in front of the Sava Centre: Vuk Draskovic and any other party who has held gatherings in the Sava Centre held those gatherings undisturbed. It is obvious that the Fourth SPS Congress is an event that will outgrow the borders of the FRY, primarily because of the unity of the most powerful party in the Balkans, because of the fact that at that congress President Slobodan Milosevic will obviously be elected president of SPS again, and also because of the fact that the congress will be attended by representatives of more than 110 parties from around the world. The presence of such information and pictures in the media, who have tended to satanise Serbia, I am primarily thinking of CNN and Sky News here, would be painful for those who have become used to satanising the Serbs, and they certainly need somebody to organise gatherings in the street for them parallel with the picture from the Sava Centre where reconstruction, development and reforms of the country are being defined in order to improve the lives of our citizens. It is the opinion of those media that they would thus lessen the value of events in the Sava Centre. I see the efforts of some of the opposition leaders to gather a number of citizens in that light, they are doing it in order to make a parallel event for representatives of CNN, Sky News and other television stations.

Bosko Perosevic’s views regarding the possible gathering of citizens: In the first place, I think that it is not a fair thing to do, because we, the Socialists, have not bothered anyone, nor would we do so at the time of their congresses, because that is an operative business, every party should put on paper what it has done, what it will do, and with whom. It is not fair behaviour, because they, the opposition, are the ones who advocate democratic and well-behaved manners.

Aleksandar Tijanic does not see the need for the gathering of citizens in front of the Sava Centre: I openly say that I believe the counter-rally on the day of the SPS congress to be utter nonsense. Somebody wants to bring out 300 Serbs to be beaten in front of the Sava Centre, only so that they can again say, "There you have it, there are only 300 of you," so that some people will be beaten again, what is the purpose of that? And a tragedy might happen as well, it could serve as a match for anything, in this atmosphere of killing a famous personality every 15 days, it could accelerate the rhythm, if evil comes in such amounts, it means we could have that kind of sensation first every 7, then every 4, every 3 days, eventually every day – where is the end to that list?