"Weapons are products of politics"

"Weapons are products of politics" Could you tell us in a bit more detail, what does the Cooperation Agreement between Serbia and Iraq, signed by you and your Iraqi counterpart, Abdul Qader Jaseem, exactly entail? There are very few defense ministers, whose countries don’t have soldiers engaged in peace missions in Iraq, who visit the country. I’ve been to Baghdad on two occasions this year alone. We are going to finish implementing a very large contract between SDPR (Serbian weapons producer) and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. According to this contract, Iraq will buy from Serbia various kinds of weapons, equipment and ballistic equipment. Both Iraq and Serbia had international sanctions lifted, and these were especially strict when it came to arms trading. What are Serbia’s qualifications for selling arms to such a politically sensitive area? I think that the Serbian army industry suffered great damages in 1999, when it was practically destroyed in air raids. The sanctions did less damage to it. A lot of efforts were made by the relevant experts and enthusiasts to revive the Serbian defense industry, to be ready to produce top-of-the-range army equipment and weapons, both for export and for domestic needs. We have had a long tradition in arms production, which dates back to the 1970s and 1980s, i.e. back in the time of former Yugoslavia, when we supplied certain markets and were instantly recognizable as top quality producers by our buyers. Are we talking about the used weapons and equipment, which are our surplus? No, we are talking about the equipment and arms that have been recently produced. The Iraqis expressed a great deal of interest for these products and they were subsequently approved by the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. The competition on the global market is tough, especially when it comes to infantry weapons and all sorts of ammunition. I presume that the talks between Iraq and Serbia had to be supervised by the U.S.? We held talks in Baghdad only with the Iraqi government. No intermediaries were involved. Could you tell us if there are countries interested in buying equipment produced by our military industry? I think that with reasonable investments, we could increase our export capacities by several times. Let me mention that five out of six military producers in Serbia have sold an almost entire annual production in advance. If the talks, that we are currently having with other countries, turn out to be successful, than our military producers will have a lot to do for a very long time. This is just one side of the medal, and the other side is that the management of Sloboda factory from Cacak was replaced last year, with Zastava Oruzje (Zastava Arms) from Kragujevac staging a strike. You were even accused of personally stopping Zastava from exporting its products. The situation in the military industry is far better than it was in the 1990s, and nobody can deny this. The fact remains that there are certain problems in Zastava Oruzje, and that these problems haven’t been dealt with for years. There are certain individuals in the company that think that Zastava exists only because of the trade unions. This has to be changed, since we cannot continue doing things in the 21st century in the same way we did them in the past. Is it true that you refused to give an approval to export handguns from Kragujevac? This is absolutely not true. The ministry is not the one to issue export permits, it only oversees the transfer of technology. It is worth mentioning that weapons are products of politics, and they are sold not only in line with market demands but also to suit certain political constellations in the world. We cannot risk our country being sanctioned by the UN or some other friendly state because of exporting one truckload of handguns. Aside from the military cooperation, you’ve discussed other matters of mutual interest with the Iraqi government. I talked to the Iraqi Prime Minister al- Maliki primarily about reconstruction of infrastructure and about exporting our agricultural products. We spoke about engaging our construction workers who built many facilities in Iraq back in the 1980s. Many Serbian construction companies can reconstruct the war damaged buildings in a very fast and an affordable way. Maybe the first job could be building the Iraqi Military Hospital complex. We have plans to bring to life a truly global brand called Serbian Ambulance. Our Military Medical Academy (VMA) is recognized all over the world and my Iraqi colleagues told me that they want to set up a similar facility in Baghdad, but smaller in size. Have the Iraqis offered to pay for all of this in oil? We haven’t discussed payment conditions yet. So far, they have been paying via usual letters of credit. Iraqi side claims that all issues pertaining to the old Iraqi debt have been resolved. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing now. Several years ago, Iraq settled most of its financial obligations towards us and many other countries, but, following a great tragedy that befell the Iraqi people, only a fraction of the real amount owed has been paid. Each Serbian minister receives different treatment in the Russian media. So, for example, your colleague, Foreign Minister (Vuk) Jeremic was portrayed as an unfaltering critic of the West, especially NATO, while Russian analysts claim that you are dragging Serbia into NATO despite the country’s military neutrality. It is a well-known fact that minister Jeremic is one of the most deserving people for Serbia joining a NATO program called ’Partnership for Peace’. This is an acceptable framework both for the Serbian Army and the Ministry of Defense. We still haven’t used the program capacities to the fullest. This week, the government appointed Ambassador Milinkovic as our representative in NATO headquarters in Brussels. Now, we have even more chance of using every available potential for cooperating with the Partnership for Peace member states, including Russia. Should Serbia discuss advantages of joining NATO after all, bearing in mind that all of the neighboring countries are going to become NATO members? After the year 2000, when most of the people living in Serbia were in favor of joining NATO, I think that nobody has actually explained the benefits of joining NATO properly, as well as the positive effects that it has had on the surrounding countries. Even if you are invited to join NATO, there aremany investments awaiting you. Whether we like it or not, we are, in effect, surrounded by NATO countries. If we are talking about the modernization and setting up new security standards in Serbia, could we also say that most of the Army has already been reformed? There isn’t a ministry of defense in the world, which is not undergoing some reform or another. Security systems are constantly being reformed. Reducing the number of Serbian soldiers to what we actually need, working on legally defining the whole system (from reforming military schools and health clinics to passing the law on military agencies), changing the training system (even the food our soldiers eat) and finishing the professionalisation process by the end of next year are just some of the reforms which we have been implementing. Aside from good will, knowledge and desire to reform the defence system, we need the money. We don’t have enough financial means to buy even the basic things like new weapons and equipment. You mentioned investments, so could you tell us what brought about a questionable decision to invest substantial amounts of money in modernizing fighter jets two years ago? I don’t think that this was a questionable decision. Investing in fighter jets is very important and this is something that we are going to have to complete in the following years. I would like to point out that none of the jets that crashed, did so because of technical malfunction and this was confirmed by an official investigation. Could you compare Serbian Army to the armies of the neighboring countries? That is a thankless task. A renowned analytical agency, Stratfor, says that our army is the most respectable military force in the Balkans. Since the Serbian public is currently occupied with the issues of making the army entirely professional, not much attention has been paid to the fact that Serbian soldiers are successfully participating in four UN peace keeping missions. When we mention Serbian army being engaged in such missions, we inevitably feel proud, but, on the other hand, there is the underlying fear of the country being drawn into a conflict which should not concern us. The people in Serbia haven’t been properly explained what the peace keeping missions actually entail, and certain political parties have been using this issue to attack the government. This is completely inappropriate, not only to us, but to our allies in the peace keeping missions. If Switzerland can participate, so can we. We should remind the Serbian public that soldiers from military super-powers like Russia, China and the U.S. take part in these missions, and not only the NATO members. What is your definition of Serbian military neutrality? We are just stating the obvious. We are not members of any military alliance and we have no defense contracts whatsoever. Serbia is practically neutral, and I don’t see this as an obstacle to cooperating both with the Eastern and the Western countries. Military schools, health clinics and scientific institutions have generated substantial income for Yugoslav budget and this is something that should make us proud. We are fully aware of this tradition. Last year we had a total of 140 soldiers from abroad attending our military schools, with 30 coming from Iraq and 20 from Algeria. There is quite a lot of interest in our military schools. This year, aside from the officers from Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia, we are going to have soldiers from the Russian Federation, who will be trained in our facilities. The issue of military property is still an issue in Serbia-Montenegro relations. We have good regional cooperation. Particularly significant is the progress which took place in the last six months. We are proud of having cadets from Bosnia and Herzegovina and Montenegro joining our academies. I expect the property issues with Montenegro to be resolved in autumn, which will bring significant benefits to our air force. Serbian police has been successfully cooperating with their counterparts in Croatia. Are there any plans for the two armies to do the same? In the period between meetings in Ankara and Vienna, I had a chance to talk with all of my colleagues from the neighboring countries and I think that set an example of good regional cooperation in the Balkan area. I think that the time has come to cooperate with Croatia, i.e. to raise the existing cooperation to an even higher level and resolve certain problems that members of the Serbian Army have been faced with. Will the decision about Serbian army becoming entirely professional really be adopted by January 1, 2011? If you had asked me that a year ago, I would have told you that we would meet all the relevant deadlines. Unfortunately, at this very moment, not much depends on our defense system. The Army Headquarters and the Ministry of Defense have completed all the necessary preparations. We have already reduced the number of new recruits who serve as civilians by 40 percent. For the first time ever, I witnessed a situation where a civilian is not invited to serve, but insists on doing so. The only issue which remains unclear is whether we are going to have enough money to carry out the professionalization process. The result will be visible once the entire procedure has been completed.. How many professional soldiers is Serbia going to have? Just over 12,500. There will be 10,500 professional soldiers and 2,000 of those who want to serve the army in order to acquire certain know-how or skills. What are the export potentials of Serbian military industry? In 2008, the total military exports amounted to nearly 400 million U.S. dollars, but I do think that the true potential is much higher. There is a suitable market for these products, and it is up to us to raise our production capacities. I would like to mention Prvi Partizan company from Uzice which has sold its entire production in advance, and even if they doubled their production, they would still sell each product they make. Last year, a lot was said about General (Miloje) Miletic being an interim choice for the Chief of Army post. General Miletic is one of the most experienced and one of the best officers in the Serbian Army. He was my choice for the Army Chief, and I’ve never viewed him as a temporary solution. On the contrary, we need stability and continuity and I think that he is the right person for the position. This article originally appeared on the CorD website Dragan Sutanovac (Tanjug) Back in the day, the army used to be the biggest state expense. Today, pensions replaced it at the top of the expense scale. Reforming Serbia’s security system largely depends on the budget, so certain delays, in the time of the economic crisis are inevitable. At the same time, the army claims that there are many opportunities to save money, adding that there are weapons to export as well as the know-how. We discussed these issues with the Serbian Defence Minister, Dragan Sutanovac in his office in the Bircaninova Street. If you look around the building in Bircaninova, you could still see the remnants from the NATO air raids ten years ago. The minister openly says that Serbia still needs to re-valuate the benefits of joining NATO. Guest: Dragan Sutanovac Journalist: Vladan Alimpijevic "We are not members of any military alliance and we have no defense contracts whatsoever. Serbia is practically neutral, and I don’t see this as an obstacle to cooperating both with the Eastern and the Western countries."

"Weapons are products of politics"

Could you tell us in a bit more detail, what does the Cooperation Agreement between Serbia and Iraq, signed by you and your Iraqi counterpart, Abdul Qader Jaseem, exactly entail?

There are very few defense ministers, whose countries don’t have soldiers engaged in peace missions in Iraq, who visit the country. I’ve been to Baghdad on two occasions this year alone. We are going to finish implementing a very large contract between SDPR (Serbian weapons producer) and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. According to this contract, Iraq will buy from Serbia various kinds of weapons, equipment and ballistic equipment.

Both Iraq and Serbia had international sanctions lifted, and these were especially strict when it came to arms trading. What are Serbia’s qualifications for selling arms to such a politically sensitive area?

I think that the Serbian army industry suffered great damages in 1999, when it was practically destroyed in air raids. The sanctions did less damage to it. A lot of efforts were made by the relevant experts and enthusiasts to revive the Serbian defense industry, to be ready to produce top-of-the-range army equipment and weapons, both for export and for domestic needs. We have had a long tradition in arms production, which dates back to the 1970s and 1980s, i.e. back in the time of former Yugoslavia, when we supplied certain markets and were instantly recognizable as top quality producers by our buyers.

Are we talking about the used weapons and equipment, which are our surplus?

No, we are talking about the equipment and arms that have been recently produced. The Iraqis expressed a great deal of interest for these products and they were subsequently approved by the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. The competition on the global market is tough, especially when it comes to infantry weapons and all sorts of ammunition.

I presume that the talks between Iraq and Serbia had to be supervised by the U.S.?

We held talks in Baghdad only with the Iraqi government. No intermediaries were involved.

Could you tell us if there are countries interested in buying equipment produced by our military industry?

I think that with reasonable investments, we could increase our export capacities by several times. Let me mention that five out of six military producers in Serbia have sold an almost entire annual production in advance. If the talks, that we are currently having with other countries, turn out to be successful, than our military producers will have a lot to do for a very long time.

This is just one side of the medal, and the other side is that the management of Sloboda factory from Čačak was replaced last year, with Zastava Oružje (Zastava Arms) from Kragujevac staging a strike. You were even accused of personally stopping Zastava from exporting its products.

The situation in the military industry is far better than it was in the 1990s, and nobody can deny this. The fact remains that there are certain problems in Zastava Oružje, and that these problems haven’t been dealt with for years. There are certain individuals in the company that think that Zastava exists only because of the trade unions. This has to be changed, since we cannot continue doing things in the 21st century in the same way we did them in the past.

Is it true that you refused to give an approval to export handguns from Kragujevac?

This is absolutely not true. The ministry is not the one to issue export permits, it only oversees the transfer of technology. It is worth mentioning that weapons are products of politics, and they are sold not only in line with market demands but also to suit certain political constellations in the world. We cannot risk our country being sanctioned by the UN or some other friendly state because of exporting one truckload of handguns.

Aside from the military cooperation, you’ve discussed other matters of mutual interest with the Iraqi government.

I talked to the Iraqi Prime Minister al- Maliki primarily about reconstruction of infrastructure and about exporting our agricultural products. We spoke about engaging our construction workers who built many facilities in Iraq back in the 1980s. Many Serbian construction companies can reconstruct the war damaged buildings in a very fast and an affordable way. Maybe the first job could be building the Iraqi Military Hospital complex. We have plans to bring to life a truly global brand called Serbian Ambulance. Our Military Medical Academy (VMA) is recognized all over the world and my Iraqi colleagues told me that they want to set up a similar facility in Baghdad, but smaller in size.

Have the Iraqis offered to pay for all of this in oil?

We haven’t discussed payment conditions yet. So far, they have been paying via usual letters of credit.

Iraqi side claims that all issues pertaining to the old Iraqi debt have been resolved.

That has nothing to do with what we are discussing now. Several years ago, Iraq settled most of its financial obligations towards us and many other countries, but, following a great tragedy that befell the Iraqi people, only a fraction of the real amount owed has been paid.

Each Serbian minister receives different treatment in the Russian media. So, for example, your colleague, Foreign Minister (Vuk) Jeremić was portrayed as an unfaltering critic of the West, especially NATO, while Russian analysts claim that you are dragging Serbia into NATO despite the country’s military neutrality.

It is a well-known fact that minister Jeremić is one of the most deserving people for Serbia joining a NATO program called ’Partnership for Peace’. This is an acceptable framework both for the Serbian Army and the Ministry of Defense. We still haven’t used the program capacities to the fullest. This week, the government appointed Ambassador Milinković as our representative in NATO headquarters in Brussels. Now, we have even more chance of using every available potential for cooperating with the Partnership for Peace member states, including Russia.

Should Serbia discuss advantages of joining NATO after all, bearing in mind that all of the neighboring countries are going to become NATO members?

After the year 2000, when most of the people living in Serbia were in favor of joining NATO, I think that nobody has actually explained the benefits of joining NATO properly, as well as the positive effects that it has had on the surrounding countries. Even if you are invited to join NATO, there aremany investments awaiting you. Whether we like it or not, we are, in effect, surrounded by NATO countries.

If we are talking about the modernization and setting up new security standards in Serbia, could we also say that most of the Army has already been reformed?

There isn’t a ministry of defense in the world, which is not undergoing some reform or another. Security systems are constantly being reformed. Reducing the number of Serbian soldiers to what we actually need, working on legally defining the whole system (from reforming military schools and health clinics to passing the law on military agencies), changing the training system (even the food our soldiers eat) and finishing the professionalisation process by the end of next year are just some of the reforms which we have been implementing. Aside from good will, knowledge and desire to reform the defence system, we need the money. We don’t have enough financial means to buy even the basic things like new weapons and equipment.

You mentioned investments, so could you tell us what brought about a questionable decision to invest substantial amounts of money in modernizing fighter jets two years ago?

I don’t think that this was a questionable decision. Investing in fighter jets is very important and this is something that we are going to have to complete in the following years. I would like to point out that none of the jets that crashed, did so because of technical malfunction and this was confirmed by an official investigation.

Could you compare Serbian Army to the armies of the neighboring countries?

That is a thankless task. A renowned analytical agency, Stratfor, says that our army is the most respectable military force in the Balkans.

Since the Serbian public is currently occupied with the issues of making the army entirely professional, not much attention has been paid to the fact that Serbian soldiers are successfully participating in four UN peace keeping missions. When we mention Serbian army being engaged in such missions, we inevitably feel proud, but, on the other hand, there is the underlying fear of the country being drawn into a conflict which should not concern us.

The people in Serbia haven’t been properly explained what the peace keeping missions actually entail, and certain political parties have been using this issue to attack the government. This is completely inappropriate, not only to us, but to our allies in the peace keeping missions. If Switzerland can participate, so can we. We should remind the Serbian public that soldiers from military super-powers like Russia, China and the U.S. take part in these missions, and not only the NATO members.

What is your definition of Serbian military neutrality?

We are just stating the obvious. We are not members of any military alliance and we have no defense contracts whatsoever. Serbia is practically neutral, and I don’t see this as an obstacle to cooperating both with the Eastern and the Western countries.

Military schools, health clinics and scientific institutions have generated substantial income for Yugoslav budget and this is something that should make us proud.

We are fully aware of this tradition. Last year we had a total of 140 soldiers from abroad attending our military schools, with 30 coming from Iraq and 20 from Algeria. There is quite a lot of interest in our military schools. This year, aside from the officers from Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia, we are going to have soldiers from the Russian Federation, who will be trained in our facilities.

The issue of military property is still an issue in Serbia-Montenegro relations.

We have good regional cooperation. Particularly significant is the progress which took place in the last six months. We are proud of having cadets from Bosnia and Herzegovina and Montenegro joining our academies. I expect the property issues with Montenegro to be resolved in autumn, which will bring significant benefits to our air force.

Serbian police has been successfully cooperating with their counterparts in Croatia. Are there any plans for the two armies to do the same?

In the period between meetings in Ankara and Vienna, I had a chance to talk with all of my colleagues from the neighboring countries and I think that set an example of good regional cooperation in the Balkan area. I think that the time has come to cooperate with Croatia, i.e. to raise the existing cooperation to an even higher level and resolve certain problems that members of the Serbian Army have been faced with.

Will the decision about Serbian army becoming entirely professional really be adopted by January 1, 2011?

If you had asked me that a year ago, I would have told you that we would meet all the relevant deadlines. Unfortunately, at this very moment, not much depends on our defense system. The Army Headquarters and the Ministry of Defense have completed all the necessary preparations. We have already reduced the number of new recruits who serve as civilians by 40 percent. For the first time ever, I witnessed a situation where a civilian is not invited to serve, but insists on doing so. The only issue which remains unclear is whether we are going to have enough money to carry out the professionalization process. The result will be visible once the entire procedure has been completed..

How many professional soldiers is Serbia going to have?

Just over 12,500. There will be 10,500 professional soldiers and 2,000 of those who want to serve the army in order to acquire certain know-how or skills.

What are the export potentials of Serbian military industry?

In 2008, the total military exports amounted to nearly 400 million U.S. dollars, but I do think that the true potential is much higher. There is a suitable market for these products, and it is up to us to raise our production capacities. I would like to mention Prvi Partizan company from Užice which has sold its entire production in advance, and even if they doubled their production, they would still sell each product they make.

Last year, a lot was said about General (Miloje) Miletić being an interim choice for the Chief of Army post.

General Miletić is one of the most experienced and one of the best officers in the Serbian Army. He was my choice for the Army Chief, and I’ve never viewed him as a temporary solution. On the contrary, we need stability and continuity and I think that he is the right person for the position.

This article originally appeared on the CorD website