Serbia marks anniversary of NATO bombing

Serbia today marks the 12th anniversary since NATO launched its air campaign against targets in then Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SRJ).

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  1. 1. Peggy, I clearly see who you are really: a radical, and you know what Patriarch Pavle has said of the radicals who destroyed Serbia? Because of those Serbs, and those walking in their steps, he said, «the soul of our nation has been tarnished for generations». I am a young Serb who had enough of wars and conflicts with other nations.
    (Boris J., 30 March 2011 20:19)
    ===…==
    Nobody likes wars but when your people are under attack you don't have options.
    I get it. Anyone who challenges you is a radical. What qualifies you to determine who is radical and who is not?
    Weren't you just a child when the war broke out? How can you be sick of wars when you haven't lived through one? You didn't even understand what was happening and here you are preaching to me and calling me a radical.
    Bullying won't work on me. I am not afraid of being called names by the likes of you.
    If you don't like what you hear start labeling people in hope they will shut up. You really fit in today's way of doing things.
    (Peggy, 1 April 2011 13:56)

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  2. Peggy, I clearly see who you are really: a radical, and you know what Patriarch Pavle has said of the radicals who destroyed Serbia? Because of those Serbs, and those walking in their steps, he said, «the soul of our nation has been tarnished for generations». I am a young Serb who had enough of wars and conflicts with other nations.
    (Boris J., 30 March 2011 20:19)

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  3. I know you like authors who share your opinion. Read something that shows you that your analysis is somehow biaised by Milosevic propaganda. It still alive, you know and it does not help our cause.
    (Boris J., 28 March 2011 00:28)
    ===…==

    And what cause it that Boris? Do tell us.
    You accuse me of reading material from authors I like, but how about you? Do you read what is written by authors YOU like? You don't seem to want to know anyone else. There are plenty more authors out there whose opinion I share. No need to talk to you about them because you run away from them like a vampire runs away from a cross.
    So go back to reading "New Kosova Report" because there I am sure you have you real name displayed.

    The moment you mentioned Milosevic propaganda I knew who you really are. You are Albanian. You are not a Serb and that is not because we disagree but because you sound like an Albanian trying so hard to pretend you are a Serb.

    Good luck with that.
    (Peggy, 28 March 2011 13:30)

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  4. I have read Tim Judah's book, The Serbs. Quite interesting. Of course, I know about John Pilger who wrote about Kosovo
    and quoting: «is now a violent "free market" in drugs and prostitution. »

    I know you like authors who share your opinion. Read something that shows you that your analysis is somehow biaised by Milosevic propaganda. It still alive, you know and it does not help our cause.
    (Boris J., 28 March 2011 00:28)

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  5. You've been out of Australia for too long.
    (Boris J, 27 March 2011 14:27)
    ===…==

    Boris, I am still living in Australia. Have all my life and obviously will for the rest of my life so spare me the lecture.
    I don't care how many times your father changed his mind. What does that prove?
    Do you think your father knows everything?
    Again, maybe you should listen to people who are in a better position to know than your father is.

    Do read something by John Pilger and the others on the this subject. I wonder if you have even heard of the people I mentioned let alone read something written by them.
    Try using Google and see what you can come up with. It's not hard. What are your father's qualifications when he is such an expert on what happened and where did he get his information from?

    All relevant questions but I don't think yo will give them a second thought.
    (Peggy, 27 March 2011 22:01)

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  6. Peggy, During the war, I was a child and I remember my dad was with Mislosevic but after the war and what have happened, he changed his mind because Milosevic as it is established on this forum worked to maintain himself in power, and with Milosevic he declared war on Bosnia and Croatia instead of negotiating. Milosevic was the worst leader for Serbia and the Serbs. It's why that now that the truth about facts haved aired out, many Australians don't believe in Captain Dragan and other radicals. Come and see by yourself. You've been out of Australia for too long.
    (Boris J, 27 March 2011 14:27)

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  7. What I tell you is what a majority of Australian Serbs say over here.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 20:46)

    Poor Australian Serbs, they teach them Anglo Saxon history in schools!
    (Jovan, 24 March 2011 22:32)
    ===…==

    They may try to teach us Anglo Saxon version but we are not stupid to fall for it.
    But please don't believe Boris' c**p. He is in the minority.
    The rest of us Australian Serbs know the truth.
    (Peggy, 27 March 2011 12:25)

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  8. Bgannon said:

    "The difference between you and I apart from your stupidity, is that you support Slobodan Milosevic, Murmar Gadafi, Sadam Hussein, Ayatollah Homeni or another other tinpot dictator, 'benevolent' or not."
    ===…==

    So these people are dictators and evil? What makes them that? American word?
    Perhaps it's you who is stupid. All these people were "their SOBs" once upon a time until they did not tow the line any longer. Then they became "dictators" and evil.

    Who supported Saddam once? Yes, it was America and then they lied about weapons of mass destruction and hung him.
    Only stupid people don't look back and recognise when they are being duped. Only stupid people fall for American bull which you obviously just did.
    I am not saying they are saints. None of the leaders are saints, but they are not evil just because America says so.
    What about Bush, Blair and Izetbegovic?
    They are not declared dictators or evil but clearly they are. Many, many more of them out there, but you have chosen to only speak of the ones America has declared evil.

    Who is stupid now?
    (peggy, 27 March 2011 12:23)

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  9. No Zoran, it's about time that young Serbs like me stands up and tell the truth to denounce radicals like you and your scorpion friends who keek on sending to others a negative image of Serbs.

    The only propaganda I know is the one of radicals who want to make us believe that what they did during the war was to protect the Serb people. You're wrong man.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 13:44)
    ===…==

    Boris, what do you or young Serbs know happened then? You clearly did NOT live thought that mess and have no first hand knowledge of how things were reported, seen or endured.
    You have you father to tell you everything. He must be a brilliant man to be able to know exactly what happened and why.
    Is he your only source of information because you keep mentioning him quite a bit?
    Have you read anything by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Gregory Clark or Scott Taylor?
    What sources do you have at your disposal?
    You mention that Serbs in diaspora are of a different opinion to Zoran's. That's not true. I live in Australia as well and I know many people here and I can tell you that the people I know do not agree with what you write. I wonder how many Serbs you know here and where they meet because all the Serbs I know here do not share your views and are very proud of the men and women who fought to defend our people there. I too have family over there who also verify what we here in diaspora know to be true.
    Don't presume to be an expert on what Serbs of Australia think. You clearly don't have a clue.
    (Peggy, 27 March 2011 12:10)

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  10. «Nobody and I mean nobody could have done a damn thing to stop the break up.»

    That's exactly what I have heard from my dad and his friends who are lawyers that Milosevic «knew» that he could do nothing and he did the opposite so he could declare war and create a BRAND NEW STATE for all Serbs where he would be PRESIDENT. I agree with this theory.
    (Boris J., 27 March 2011 01:21)

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  11. dear winston thank you for your gracious reply i am sorry i dont have a doctorate in anything but what i can tell you is my information comes from being thereand doing some of it.i can tell you that i was born in 1933 and did not get all these gray hairs and live this long by making any mistakes thanks again for your gracious reply george
    (george miletich, 27 March 2011 00:23)

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  12. Yeah, that's why everybody run for the door to get away from the Serbs...
    (icj1, 26 March 2011 16:57)
    --
    It is the reason those who lived life in Yugoslavia say they "lived better, were economically more secure and felt more free".
    (Zoran, 26 March 2011 23:13)

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  13. Zoran, Milosevic made plenty of bigger mistakes than not being prepared and losing the propoganda war although he did both of those.

    As I said, had he pressed ahead with reforms at the same pace as Slovenia and Croatia with a multi party system of democracy how could Serbia be seen as socialist? It could not have been potrayed that way.

    Oh, Kucan the socialist against Milosevic the socialist or perhaps Tudjman the socialist general against Milosevic the socialist!

    So he brought unpopularity on himself, or rather on Serbia by refusing to support a multi party system because it kept his party in power.

    Any other issues? These are pretty factual matters and don't require too much imagination. I'm taking the fact that you didn't dispute refute anything else I wrote as agreement?
    (bganon, 26 March 2011 22:47)

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  14. bla bla bla.ruskies, serbs, chinese no good only us uk franceand albos good retired west point gen, told me ww2 would not have been won without the ruskies! macarthur tried to throw his weight around at the yalu river seen 2 mil chinese with axes and peed his pants nazis got it too from serb goat ropes!!!tell us more mighty albos we would love to get it ON!!geosr.
    (george miletich, 26 March 2011 15:37)

    George,
    Thank you for the information. You sound like a very educated person. Where did you do your doctoral studies?
    (winston, 26 March 2011 21:57)

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  15. bganon, your living in a fantasy land entirely of your on making. Nobody and I mean nobody could have done a damn thing to stop the break up.
    (jla, 26 March 2011 20:01)

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  16. You probably never saw the old Yugoslavia where there was freedom of movement throughout the region, no borders and from what I saw, peace and happiness between the people.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 15:24)

    Yeah, that's why everybody run for the door to get away from the Serbs...
    (icj1, 26 March 2011 16:57)

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  17. bla bla bla.ruskies, serbs, chinese no good only us uk franceand albos good retired west point gen, told me ww2 would not have been won without the ruskies! macarthur tried to throw his weight around at the yalu river seen 2 mil chinese with axes and peed his pants nazis got it too from serb goat ropes!!!tell us more mighty albos we would love to get it ON!!geosr.
    (george miletich, 26 March 2011 15:37)

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  18. At the same time he could have pushed through democratic reforms in Serbia at the same pace as they were going ahead in Slovenia and Croatia.

    OK, under this scenario he would probably not have been in power until 2000. But he would have been able to look back in pride at what he achieved...
    (bganon, 26 March 2011 12:16)
    --
    And there lies the problem. The US saw this as Socialist Serbia against Democratic Slovenia and Croatia. The biggest mistake Milosevic made was being unprepared and losing the propaganda war early. The Croatians (Ustasha) in Australia and elsewhere were preparing and funding this breakup for decades.
    (Zoran, 26 March 2011 15:23)

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  19. «Why do you just blame Milosevic and Serbians? What about the others?»

    I've discussed this with my dad and he repeats that Milosevic should have accepted the secession of Croatia and Bosnia, because there's nothing he could do more or better than the President of the USSR. Instead, he supported the rebellion of Karadzic who was acting out of fear of what could happened if they lived in an independant Boania.

    This is really complicated for me. I was a child when the war started, but I remember that my dad was against all wars and as many Serbs living in Australia, he did not support the serbian nalionalsm based on the past, not more that he supported udjman. He always repeats that Milosevic was not the man to handle the situation, and Tudjman either.

    I tank you for your answers that helped me to share positively with you a point of view that is not «ours» (Dad & I).
    (Boris J., 26 March 2011 14:28)

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  20. Dragan, if I read you well, if a Serb's opinion differs with yours, he is not a Serb! I am sure that many Serbs differ in opinion with your way of thinking, but you will never admit.
    (Boris J., 26 March 2011 13:46)

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  21. Zoran what could Milosevic had done?

    Thats too easy, really. He could have accepted talks on a confederation, planned a real strategy for keeping Jugoslavija together. That would have stalled Slovenia. Or in other words (because I know some nationalists were never happy with Jugoslavija) he could have made sure that hundreds of thousands of Serbs would never have been ethnically cleansed and murdered (not to mention victims from other groups).

    He should have immediately taken it to the international community where he had the support of Britain, France, USSR, China and to a less extent the US. The US in the early stages supported Jugoslavija against seperatism.

    What the proverbial kak hit the fan as it probably would have, Serbia would have had full support from its allies and limited but not inconsiderable support from certain Croatian and Slovenian leaders and anti nationalists. With that support from inside and outside the JNA might have handled a nationalist rebellion.

    We will never know, but don't think for a second that poor Sloba couldn't have done anything else. That is nonsense.

    But the problem was that he thought the above was a bigger risk in terms of his losing political power. He was brought up to think that only powerful statements of soverignty impress the population. But he forgot how the population enjoyed seeing their leaders conferring with top foreign officials too. He forgot how offering prosperity and a future brings votes as well. Through the media he could have made a career of supporting Serbian interests through international support. At the same time he could have pushed through democratic reforms in Serbia at the same pace as they were going ahead in Slovenia and Croatia.

    OK, under this scenario he would probably not have been in power until 2000. But he would have been able to look back in pride at what he achieved...
    (bganon, 26 March 2011 12:16)

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  22. Zoran,

    The Bosniaks, the Croats, the Slovenes, dis not want to live in « the existing internationally recognised country where all Serbians already lived together.» What about that? USSr had collapsed and the President of USSR could not stop it, and you arguee that Milosevic's aim was to preserve what the President of Russia could not preserve himself? Don't you find it's a bit a nonsense what you're saying. Croatia wanted to be independent, just as Slovenia, and all the republiks of former USSR. What could Milosevic do that he did not do? I am awaiting your answer.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 22:03)

    After a 10 day war with slovenia, Yugoslavia agreed to recognise their, and Croatia's independence, a treaty was agreed that those places in Croatia (Krajina) where Serbs lived in the majority, would remain part of Yugoslavia, however, Tudman wanted more land, and went for these regions as well, which didnt go down well. The rest is history
    (New Zealander, 26 March 2011 06:22)

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  23. Boris, here is a link I forgot to include after my Croatia comment. Check [link]

    Tell me what Milosevic did wrong? It was the Croatians who ultimately rejected it as I assume they were planning the mass ethnic cleansing of Serbians with their US backers (aka Operation Storm).
    (Zoran, 26 March 2011 00:53)

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  24. They agree completely that Milosevic had no love for anybody or anything apart from his official position and his immediate family.
    (bganon, 25 March 2011 21:58)
    --
    Sorry but I didn't see it that way. He was certainly no saint but I can understand the difficult position he was in. Nationalists hate him for not doing enough to protect Serbians in RSK. They wanted Serbia to enter the wars directly, which who knows how that would have ended.

    Tell me, in hindsight, what do you think he could have done differently that would have improved the situation? Remember that most Serbians at the time supported his initial decisions. He was also dealing with Nationalist Croatians and Bosnian Muslims.
    (Zoran, 26 March 2011 00:36)

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  25. NOBODY will bomb us ever again with a Russian pipeline on our land no matter what we do. CCCC
    (highduke, 25 March 2011 11:27)

    duke,

    You are paraphrasing Milosevic when he spoke to Serbs at Kosovo Polje in 1987. However, look at how badly the Serbs were beaten, WITH IMPUNITY, in 1999 and since then. You really ought to learn some history
    (sj, 26 March 2011 00:29)

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  26. Yes Boris and that was the big problem wasn't it? Slovenia and FYROM went their own way relatively peacefully because they didn't have large minorities resisting, however, in the case of Croatia and BiH it was different.

    When you have large minorities against a secession then what do you do? Well, negotiations seems like the obvious choice but Germany and the Vatican were very quick to recognise Croatia, which was reported at the time as premature and further raised tensions.

    In BiH, there were negotiations in the form of the Lisbon agreement, which believe it or not, everyone agreed to until it was claimed Izetbegovic withdrew his signature after meeting with US ambassador Warren Wimmermann. Apparently he promised Izetbegovic all of BiH but in the end they ended up with less. [link]

    Tell me, why is Milosevic responsible for all that? Why do you think Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Thaci, Clinton and Bliar are any better than him?

    We can go on for years as this is a complicated subject. In my opinion, everyone had their fair share of responsibility but with a lot of Western spin, the finger pointing unfairly went mostly to Milosevic and Serbians.

    Why do you just blame Milosevic and Serbians? What about the others?
    (Zoran, 26 March 2011 00:29)

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  27. Zoran, don't waste your time talking to 'Boris', he's clearly not Serbian as he claims, and his real name is probably Fatmir or Ante.
    (Dragan, 25 March 2011 23:18)

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  28. Zoran,

    The Bosniaks, the Croats, the Slovenes, dis not want to live in « the existing internationally recognised country where all Serbians already lived together.» What about that? USSr had collapsed and the President of USSR could not stop it, and you arguee that Milosevic's aim was to preserve what the President of Russia could not preserve himself? Don't you find it's a bit a nonsense what you're saying. Croatia wanted to be independent, just as Slovenia, and all the republiks of former USSR. What could Milosevic do that he did not do? I am awaiting your answer.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 22:03)

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  29. Zoran, Boris may not have all his facts right, but you can't dispute the fact that Milosevic was only concerned with maintaining his own power. Its irrelevent whether this was as head of the Serbian Communist Party, President of FRJ or President of Serbia.

    You know as well as I do that many nationalists dislike Milosevic even more than reformists. They agree completely that Milosevic had no love for anybody or anything apart from his official position and his immediate family.

    With such a dangerously immoral / ammoral character in power its no wonder Serbs kept finding themselves on the losing side whether diplomatically or militarily.

    Boris you can't label all those people (including Zoran) as radical Serbs because much of the time they were not on the same side and do not agree with one another. For sure you can argue that they (politicians etc) were anti democratic / communist / nationalist / power hungry / criminal but their interests were not always the same. As all those who saw the situation in Serbia closely will tell you - Milosevic was no nationalist, despite the fact that in the mid 90's he adopted the nationalist lexicon and despite his forays towards nationalist leanings at a certain speech in Kosovo back in the day.

    Jugoslavija Savicevic was from Montenegro, not Serbia. He was great as a player, but as a man, well these days he's one of the best friends of Milo Djukanovic.
    (bganon, 25 March 2011 21:58)

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  30. You mean the «ra dical Serbs» as Milosevic, Karadzic and otehrs. Ordinary people as my dad and many others wanted simply to live at peace with others, but Mr milosevic did not wat to discuss and negociate. When he noticed that Yugoslavia was breaking up, as USSR, and he was losing power, then with radicals like him he tried to put up another «country» FOR ALL SERBS, as you say, where he could be president for a lifetime, as Moubarak, Kadhafi, and others.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 17:32)
    --
    I suggest you educate yourself in history and try to use more than one source if you can.

    Milosevic didn't have a job to lose because he wasn't the president of Yugoslavia but only one of the republics. He didn't order the Yugoslav army to deploy into Croatia because he didn't have the authority. He didn't try to put up another country but to preserve the existing internationally recognised country where all Serbians already lived together.

    It seems your whole version of events is completely warped so I can only suggest you study the events in a bit more detail before accusing people of being radicals just because they don't agree with your version of events.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 20:18)

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  31. RE; Partisans revenge killings

    Did you ever hear about the tens of thousands of innocent Hungarian civilians massacred by Serbs in Vojvodina in 1944?
    (Joe, 24 March 2011 23:18)

    It is inexcusable that Titos partisans exacted revenge on both Croatia and Vojvodina in such places as Bleiburg.

    However, Admiral Horthy of Hungary joined the Nazi axis and is responsible for mass war crimes against Serbian civilians and of course we all know the genocide committed by Ante Pavelic and the Ustasha Nazi puppet regime.
    (Jugoslavija, 25 March 2011 20:17)

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  32. «NATO troops throughout Yugoslavia, was a provocation, an excuse to start bombing.»

    Kissinger is allowed to have his opinion about Rambouillet, just as he had an opinion about Chili! Do you know it? Personnally, I do not share that opinion, and I accept Rambouillet as a way to STOP Milosevic. In the 1930, the world watched Hitler and let him do. The leaders did not want history to repeat and they did well.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 19:28)

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  33. You can believe the propaganda of Greater Serbia but that wasn't the case. It was more about the preservation of Yugoslavia, an internationally recognised country. That was Milosevic's position.

    With age you will see things a lot closer to how they are.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 15:24)

    Since all those other republics did want to split Yugoslavia why was it then, they all fought Serbs this what confuses me. If it was all bad people but Serbs are saints??

    I am not saying one is better than the othee country all have committed crimes but it always seems common denominator is Serbia.

    Why is that Zoran?
    (Engineer, 25 March 2011 18:40)

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  34. RE: The Last Hurrah.......1990-91

    Red Star Beograd took the European Cup and as many times before, Serbs, Croats and Slovenes celebrated together. Never will you see a football team that featured stars such as Prosinecki(sp) from Croatia, Pancev from FYROM, Dragan Stojkovic, Jugovic, Dejan Savijevic from Serbia. Sinisa Mihailovic from both Croatia and Serbia.


    After 1989 all hell broke lose from a bunch of selfish politicians and internationals who were bent to see the Yugoslav dream crushed.

    [link]
    (Jugoslavija, 25 March 2011 17:32)

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  35. «The Serbian position was fairly simple - and that was to keep Serbians together within a "Yugoslavia".»

    You mean the «ra dical Serbs» as Milosevic, Karadzic and otehrs. Ordinary people as my dad and many others wanted simply to live at peace with others, but Mr milosevic did not wat to discuss and negociate. When he noticed that Yugoslavia was breaking up, as USSR, and he was losing power, then with radicals like him he tried to put up another «country» FOR ALL SERBS, as you say, where he could be president for a lifetime, as Moubarak, Kadhafi, and others. Well Zoran, if you did not come up with this premisse, somthing is missing in your analysis. Again, I repeat, Milo was thinking about his «job» that he was losing, and not the good people of Serbia.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 17:32)

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  36. RE; Where have the youth of our nations gone wrong


    Whether George Bush, Hitler, Gadhafi, or Milosevic.....all were/are dangerous leaders that took their countries off a cliff for their own power-driven reasons, (Charli, 25 March 2011 03:51)

    You cannot lump George Bush, Milosevic and even Gaddafi with Adolf Hitler; Adolf Hitler is responsible for the mass murder of 6Mil Jews, the greatest holocaust the world has ever seen.

    If you want to lump Hitler with Genocidal leaders, Pol Pot of Cambodia, Ata-Turk of the Turkish and Ottoman Empire responsible for the mass extermination of Armenians and Greeks during the early 20th century. Ida Amin of Uganda , Stalin in Russia and you can add Ante Pavelic of Croatia responsible for killing 750,000 Serbs, Jews, Gypsies and Croatians . If you want to go back further in history, the mass extermination of the muslims in Spain in the 15th century.
    (Jugoslavija, 25 March 2011 17:11)

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  37. what point is that exactly that I'm proving - that you agree with the post of a liar and paranoid? Doesn't make much sense does it?

    But it makes even less sense that these other supposed individuals Go East (unless you are man enough to admit you use this monicker as well) Speak the truth etc are not upset by my accusations but only one individual is - you. Strange isn't it? Its also strange that you and these other alleged posters always mention OTPOR despite that fact that OTPOR is dead and buried in Serbia and frankly its history.

    Its also very odd that you always turn up in these threads (no matter how small) in which 'somebody else' has attacked me and whine when I accuse you of trolling.

    I do not exclude the possibility that I have accused you wrongly once or twice. However, that is the price a fool pays for trolling / using multiple monickers in the first place.

    As I've told you before if you want respect then desist from using multiple identities, stop the multiple voting. You are neither any more worthy, than less worthy than the rest of us, so stop trying to pretend.
    (bganon, 25 March 2011 15:41)

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  38. The only propaganda I know is the one of radicals who want to make us believe that what they did during the war was to protect the Serb people. You're wrong man.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 13:44)
    --
    Look, if the only propaganda you know is that of radical Serbians and cannot see through Western propaganda then the "youngness" you profess is understandable.

    If you see Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Thaci, Clinton, Blair and other "leaders" during that time as better than Milosevic then that is your opinion but I don't share it.

    The Serbian position was fairly simple - and that was to keep Serbians together within a "Yugoslavia". One day they were all living happily in one country and then they found themselves living in hostile entities. You probably never saw the old Yugoslavia where there was freedom of movement throughout the region, no borders and from what I saw, peace and happiness between the people. You probably don't know the history of WWII and how the breakup of Yugoslavia could evoke fear within those living in Croatia and elsewhere.

    You can believe the propaganda of Greater Serbia but that wasn't the case. It was more about the preservation of Yugoslavia, an internationally recognised country. That was Milosevic's position.

    With age you will see things a lot closer to how they are.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 15:24)

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  39. So Obama is being attacked, rightly, for not getting congressional approval to bomb Libya. He is being threatened with impeachment.
    I seem to be the only one remembering that Clinton attacked Serbia without such congressional approval and without even as much as a Security Council mandate to cover his illegal and unconstitutional action.
    I am amazed tha the Serbs are once again rolling over when they should be flooding the blogosphere and media asking some very pertinent questions.
    Of course if Clinton's attack was unconstitutional Serbs should be demanding a war crimes investigation and massive reparations.
    Please just get on with it!
    (Elizabeth, 25 March 2011 14:39)

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  40. The only propaganda I know is the one of radicals who want to make us believe that what they did during the war was to protect the Serb people. You're wrong man.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 13:44)

    Boris, I feel sorry for you. You dont understand things here and your understanding is according to what you have been told by western media.

    Even Henry Kissinger said "The Rambouillet text, which called on Serbia to admit NATO troops throughout Yugoslavia, was a provocation, an excuse to start bombing. Rambouillet is not a document that any Serb could have accepted. It was a terrible diplomatic document that should never have been presented in that form".

    But we will remember this.
    (Kale, 25 March 2011 14:17)

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  41. « it is nice NATO propaganda you keep repeating.»

    No Zoran, it's about time that young Serbs like me stands up and tell the truth to denounce radicals like you and your scorpion friends who keek on sending to others a negative image of Serbs.

    The only propaganda I know is the one of radicals who want to make us believe that what they did during the war was to protect the Serb people. You're wrong man.
    (Boris J., 25 March 2011 13:44)

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  42. Serbia had to apply to the UN as a new state when Yugoslavia finally dissolved.
    (Danilo, 25 March 2011 11:08)
    --
    Yet again, you are wrong Danilo. If you were following, EA referred to UNSCR1244, which specified Yugoslavia (Federal Republic), which later became Serbia and Montenegro and when Montenegro left, it became Serbia who kept the UN seat. It was effectively just a name change and accepted as such. Montenegro had to request a UN seat separately.

    What you are referring to is SFRY (Socialist FRY), which is not in the context of this discussion.

    When it comes to UNSCR1244, Serbia is Yugoslavia. Even the ICJ saw it that way.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 12:29)

    # Comment link

  43. You just go on proving my point again and again Bganon, not only that what former Otpor do best is throwing accusations without a shred of evidence, but they are liars and patological paranoids as well. Personally i dont take offence of your rantings here but for your own good, you should seek help for that.

    That said, i fully support your view "speak the truth", good post.
    (wtf, 25 March 2011 12:21)

    # Comment link

  44. I seem to remember that Ian justified the bombing of RTS. But it would seem that this fish won't bite this time.
    (bganon, 25 March 2011 00:20)

    Me too mate, I do not know what he is playing now. Do not like hypocrites and Ian is one of the biggest on this forum

    Also remember his comments about Falkland Islands and British rights to defend it:10000 miles away.

    What we say in Serbia: Ian, you can try to sell balls instead of kidneys somewhere else!
    (Kale, 25 March 2011 11:55)

    # Comment link

  45. I think the price for Milosevic and his suicide politics was invasion and destruction. Instead, Serbia was only bombed.
    After the war crimes in Bosnia, and then in Kosovo, this surely was a mild punishment. After all, Arkan, Seselj and these other odious characters were Serbian Serbs, as was Milosevic.
    (Renko, 25 March 2011 06:24)

    Actually Arkan, and Milosevic were Montenegrins
    (New Zealander, 25 March 2011 11:14)

    # Comment link

  46. "And who is the successor state of Yugoslavia? "


    No state is.

    Serbia had to apply to the UN as a new state when Yugoslavia finally dissolved.
    (Danilo, 25 March 2011 11:08)

    # Comment link

  47. I must say because of the NATO bombs I am alive today, so people can argue if it was right or wrong all day long for me it was a right thing to do.
    (Nexh, 24 March 2011 23:07)
    --
    You would have been alive regardless along with thousands of other ethnic Albanians and Serbians who ended up dying as a result of the bombing. I don't understand how some people can celebrate death and destruction. It is a human failing and primitive mindset.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 10:40)

    # Comment link

  48. Your OSCE reports were well selected but, they were copy paste reports from somebody that is none english speaker.
    The following line is found on each report:

    "The Yugoslav authorities have been co-operative and have shown restraint throughout this episode".
    (Agim Kelmendi, 25 March 2011 08:05)
    --
    They are the reports from the OSCE prior to the war my friend. After all that co-operation and good will from Serbia and terrorism from the KLA, somehow the Racak hoax became the trigger. We all know NATO was itching to bomb so they created an excuse for themselves.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 10:35)

    # Comment link

  49. @Zoran,

    Your OSCE reports were well selected but, they were copy paste reports from somebody that is none english speaker.
    The following line is found on each report:

    "The Yugoslav authorities have been co-operative and have shown restraint throughout this episode".
    (Agim Kelmendi, 25 March 2011 08:05)

    # Comment link

  50. This day 12 years ago I drinked water(didn't have anything else) to celebrate NATO's first bomb.
    I must say because of the NATO bombs I am alive today, so people can argue if it was right or wrong all day long for me it was a right thing to do.
    (Nexh, 24 March 2011 23:07)

    They killed more civilians then the Yugoslav troops ever did, They caused a refugee crisis, and for what? Nato Destroyed 14 tanks despite dropping thousands of bombs and put in power a "man" (I use the word man in the broadest sense possible) who steals organs.
    (John, 25 March 2011 06:59)

    # Comment link

  51. I think the price for Milosevic and his suicide politics was invasion and destruction. Instead, Serbia was only bombed.
    After the war crimes in Bosnia, and then in Kosovo, this surely was a mild punishment. After all, Arkan, Seselj and these other odious characters were Serbian Serbs, as was Milosevic.
    (Renko, 25 March 2011 06:24)

    # Comment link

  52. War is always a tragic failure for humanity, regardless of how it comes to pass. The additional tragedy is that average people always pay the biggest price, rarely the "leaders" who took their countries/citizens there.

    Whether George Bush, Hitler, Gadhafi, or Milosevic.....all were/are dangerous leaders that took their countries off a cliff for their own power-driven reasons, with brutal consequences for both their citizens and many, many others. When they do this, there are no simple or easy answers. All good options are gone.

    We, as average people, should not allow ourselves to turn against each other. This is EXACTLY what terrible leaders want. It is almost a formula, too predictable, of divide and conquer. But they divide and conquer their own people first.

    We tear each other up, insteading of DEVELOPING and DEMANDING better representation. And if we do not see this, and act accordingly, we get the leaders we deserve. As horrible as they are.

    The answers (and our ultimate success and strength) will lie not what we hate, but in what we love. Not in what we destroy, but what we can create. Not in how we disagree, but in how we can learn to compromise. This is true with family, country, region, and then this world that we must share.

    It doesn't matter our color, religion, nation....this will always be a truth. At least this is what I believe and am willing to stand for.
    (Charli, 25 March 2011 03:51)

    # Comment link

  53. Albanians do not even care that their own were also bombed; as long as they personally benefitted from it it's great. This mentality some of them have is very identitcal to that of criminals. Well, that explains a lot actually.
    (Milan T, 25 March 2011 03:15)

    # Comment link

  54. He knew that his refusal would precipitate Serbia into a war and honestly he did not care for Serbia and the Serbs. He thought of himself and not of Serbia, and you know this.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 22:05)
    --
    Yes Boris, it is nice NATO propaganda you keep repeating. Jamie Shea will be proud. In fact, I did not witness Milosevic's vanity but I did hear about it from Clinton and Bliar. It was all Milosevic's fault according to them. I read most of his court transcripts also and I didn't detect it there either. He was in fact defending Serbia and not only himself, which he did successfully.

    So you think he wanted war? I suppose that explains his outburst when the bombing started. I don't understand why the JNA were so co-operative with the OSCE either when the KLA were terrorising Serbians in KiM. Why would they send people to Rambouillet? If Milosevic wanted war he could have started it far more easily.

    No, Milosevic wasn't a clean cut politician, I agree. I don't understand how anyone could under the circumstances but put simply, we could have avoided the bombing if we just allowed NATO to occupy all of Yugoslavia. Same as with the NAZI bombing, that could have been avoided if we just accepted occupation also.
    (Zoran, 25 March 2011 00:31)

    # Comment link

  55. Top you got my point. Probably you agree with me in believing that RTS was a propoganda mouthpiece that we were sick of in the 1990's. But it is another thing entirely to support the killing of civilians working inside that building.

    NATO created some excuse about alleged military transmitters that were on the roof of the building which justified it as a target. This was the second story because the first story was that RTS was a political tool and was a justified military target. However, they realised this wasn't enough under international legal standards so the story was changed.

    I seem to remember that Ian justified the bombing of RTS. But it would seem that this fish won't bite this time.

    Anybody who supports the killing of civilians, should think if they could look into the eyes of the families of those people and tell them why they are a justified target. I don't believe anybody human can do such a thing and I think this is because whatever one's political beliefs one knows it is simply wrong and not justifiable to kill civilians.

    Arti - 'serbia still deserves a good bombing' I truly feel sorry for you. Such hatred can only make you feel ill. You must know it is better to let it go. People in Nis died close to the market due to cluster bombs. Cluster bombs in a built up civilian area is grounds for war crimes under international law. Blowing up bridges with civilian passenger trains travelling accross it is another war crime.

    This isn't something you can justify either according to international legal standards of war or as a human being. I hope at least you didn't lose all feeling of the latter.
    (bganon, 25 March 2011 00:20)

    # Comment link

  56. "And Albanians didnt lived on Kosovo for centureis"
    mare

    Lived or not lived is completely irrelevant at this point. Not too many Serbs lived in Vojvodina either before the arrival of the Turks. It was around that time that a Serbian bishop moved with all his people, some 150,000 of them from Kosovo to Vojvodina. What count now is the current ethnic composition. Not just in Kosovo but everywhere in Cental Europe and on the Balkans.
    (Joe, 25 March 2011 00:18)

    # Comment link

  57. «We saw what happened when it actually did happen. 200,000 Serbians ethnically cleansed from their homes. »

    I think that NATO would have protected better the citizens of the Krajina than the President Babic who ordered the evacuation of the city! How come Mladic was not around to protect the Serbs?
    (Boris J, 25 March 2011 00:17)

    # Comment link

  58. "WHY did they do it???? 12 years after I still didn't found the reason
    Tatjana

    To find out the reason ask anybody but not your Serbian boyfriend.
    (Joe, 25 March 2011 00:04)

    # Comment link

  59. Serbia deserved the bombing, if any thing it was a pretty lenient one. Serbia still deserves a good bombing. Down to its core Serbia is still the same as it was during the times of Milosevic.
    (Arti, 24 March 2011 19:43)


    RE: Behind Enemy Lines



    The last nation that deserves bombing is Serbia, especially when it saved over 500 American US bombing personnel who were shot down by the Nazi's during WWII over bombing runs in the Romanian Ploesti oil fields.

    At great sacrifice, the Serbian civilians and Chetnik forces organized the Halward mission saving US airmen lives. If the US people had knowledge of the debt paid by Serbia, no bombing would ever been allowed on Serbian soil.

    As for the Albanian nation, the legacy is the declaration of war against the United States of America in 1941.

    [link]
    (Jugsolavia, 25 March 2011 00:04)

    # Comment link

  60. NOT REALLY it refers to Yugoslavia which doesnt exist anymore....than we have the International Court of Justice OPINION at Serbia's request...
    (EA, 24 March 2011 18:45)

    RE: EA-Get into the game......


    And who is the successor state of Yugoslavia?

    If you changed your name from Electronic Arts to Apple, you would still be able to play EA basketball or baseball even though it might be called Apple.
    (Jugoslavija, 24 March 2011 23:58)

    # Comment link

  61. Zoran, before Rambouillet Milosevic could have withdraw his army from Kosovo without harm, and he chose to defy Nato only because he wanted to remain in power, for his own interests, and you know well what I mean. Then the ultimatum came and he kept on refusing, knowing well that 1000s of Serbs would perish when NATO Would start bombing Serbia. And you seem to agree with Milosevic. Why? What I tell you is what a majority of Australian Serbs say over here.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 20:46)

    You dont' know what you are talking about. Milosevic under pressure from Holbrooke reduced the military force in Kosovo and a second time under the OSCE where only a police presence was left.

    The OSCE was less than neutral and the KLA took full advantage by continuing to terrorize the Yugoslav police force and civilians with relative impunity.

    The bottom line is KLA wanted NATO to intervene and did everything in its' power to do so.

    Rambouillet was an ultimatum , not a negotiation as the Albanians did not negotiate and they continue not to negotiate to this day. No Serbian leader would have allowed the sovereignty of it's country to be compromised as outlined in the Rambouillet annex.

    Serbia defeated the fascist Austro-Hungarians and Germans with support from the Bosnian and Fascist elements of Albania and Bosnia. Today, we are seeing the facsist elements of Albania and Bosnia being supported by the US and most of Europe with Germany included again.
    (Jugoslavija, 24 March 2011 23:51)

    # Comment link

  62. as German I can only ask the Serbs to forgive what my government has done. I deeply regret that.
    (Thomas, 24 March 2011 17:09)

    We will always forgive you, as Christians we must, but we will not forget.

    I want you to go back to 1941 in Pancevo where a German journalist filmed in full the mass execution by the German Nazi's of innocent civilians, men and woman. The first group was hung and another group was shot against the wall. I want you to look into the eyes of those civilians as they are taking to death without trial. This was in retribution of the shooting of two German offices by Yugslav resistance groups.


    Eleven of his photographs of the reprisal massacre in Pancevo, Serbia, are part of a traveling

    [link]


    This is after the bombing of Belgrade in the middle of the night by the Lutwaffe called operation "punishment' There was no declaration of war, Belgrade was an open city.


    I now take you to March 24, 1999 and again, without UN resolution, Germany and NATO start bombing the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Pancevo refineries were hit again, innocent civilians again die in Pancevo. Serbia have never attacked Germany, but Germany has invaded and attacked Serbia in WWI, WWII and now in March of 1999.

    Germany as a people should be ashamed of themselves for again allowing Cole and his government to bomb Serbia without provocation again.

    Serbia can only thank the Green coalation and other elements of the German public who have not forgotten what happened in WWII. The problem is that many parts of Europe and now the United States have forgotten and now are launching similar war's against sovereign nations against the context and purpose of the United Nations.
    (Jugoslavija, 24 March 2011 23:42)

    # Comment link

  63. Arti,
    The link you provided proves my point about NATO lies, thanks! Willim Cohen said 100,000 dead or missing albanians, when the real number of dead was 2100 at the end of the war, on BOTH sides total. the NATO war criminals are proven liars and propogandists whom Josef Goebbels would be proud of.
    [link]
    And yes, some people still believe in Santa Claus, in the Tooth Fairy, and in the 'Racak Massacre'.
    Tell me, why did the dead bodies in the ditch not have any blood around them if they were 'massacred' there? Why did autopsies show traces of gunpowder on the bodies if these were civilians? I'll tell you why, because they were bodies of KLA terrorists who were killed by the Serbian army in a successful operation, and your weasels then moved those bodies into a ditch and called the media and William Walker to make blatant lies to the world about a fictitious 'massacre'.
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    Just google 'Racak Hoax' and see what comes up, and educate yourself on the truth. The truth is on Serbia's side, as always, and this is what you are really afraid of isn't it?
    (Dragan, 24 March 2011 23:41)

    # Comment link

  64. The same congratulations from me.
    (Joe, 24 March 2011 20:15)

    Poor old Joe, confused about his roots.
    (Janos, 24 March

    If you are really Hungarian (I have my doubts about it) you are the confused one. Did you ever hear about the tens of thousands of innocent Hungarian civilians massacred by Serbs in Vojvodina in 1944?
    (Joe, 24 March 2011 23:18)

    # Comment link

  65. This day 12 years ago I drinked water(didn't have anything else) to celebrate NATO's first bomb.
    I must say because of the NATO bombs I am alive today, so people can argue if it was right or wrong all day long for me it was a right thing to do.
    (Nexh, 24 March 2011 23:07)

    # Comment link

  66. Boris, why should Milosevic have withdrawn the Serbian army from Serbian territory? Who would have protected the Serbians if the army left? We saw what happened when it actually did happen. 200,000 Serbians ethnically cleansed from their homes.

    Now read the OSCE reports below to see the activity that lead to the bombing. I repeat, this is the OSCE and not the BBC or CNN.

    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]

    I looked but I couldn't find one report that blamed the Serbian (Yugoslav) army for instigating violence during the ceasefire (just prior to the bombing). In fact the common theme from the OSCE was:

    KLA -> terrorist action in violation of basic human rights.

    Serbs -> The Yugoslav authorities have been co-operative and have shown restraint throughout this episode.

    They had to stage Racak to justify the bombing, just when Serbia rejected the Rambouillet Agreement (Ultimatum), which if you read it would allow NATO to occupy all of Yugoslavia and provide Kosovo with independence. Those two conditions were dropped in UNSCR1244 and that lead to the cessation of bombing.

    As for the opinions of Serbians in Australia, I don't believe your version.
    (Zoran, 24 March 2011 22:57)

    # Comment link

  67. What I tell you is what a majority of Australian Serbs say over here.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 20:46)

    Poor Australian Serbs, they teach them Anglo Saxon history in schools!
    (Jovan, 24 March 2011 22:32)

    # Comment link

  68. Theres no any proof that operation Horseshoe existed at all, so please Albanian friends stop with your lies, im sick of it, we dont live on fucking Mars so u can fool us with this primitive lies! And Albanians didnt lived on Kosovo for centureis, and were not majority (became that only between WW1 and WW2), Serbs did, so stop with this Illyirian crap and how you want your great Albania, you colonized Kosovo not Serbs, get it??? I cant just imagine what lies Albanian children are now learning in school!
    (Mare, 24 March 2011 22:05)

    # Comment link

  69. Zoran, before Rambouillet, there was no ultimatum and Milosevic refused because he did not wat to lose power and because of other interests. He knew that his refusal would precipitate Serbia into a war and honestly he did not care for Serbia and the Serbs. He thought of himself and not of Serbia, and you know this. That's what many Australian Serbs believe, and even many Serbs in Serbia. It seems like you think as too many radicals who are the sole responsible of what happened there in the 90s.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 22:05)

    # Comment link

  70. "Ian your definition of 'political' targets? I hope you are not talking about civlian targets, which you condemned as it would be a contradictory position."
    (bganon, 24 March 2011 13:01)

    I don't know a 'Political target' could be RTS Milosevic propaganda TV, for example?
    (Top, 24 March 2011 22:01)

    # Comment link

  71. My congrats to Serbia for removing the hungarian nazi's from Vojvodina too! How's that Joe? Two can play at this game.
    (michael, 24 March 2011 21:54)

    # Comment link

  72. Lets not forget a ceasefire was in place prior to NATO's bombing. Lets go back to the source to remind ourselves who were the largest violators of that ceasefire.

    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    And so on.

    Wow, and Serbia still gets bombed even though the KLA continued with terrorism (as described by the OSCE) and here we have NATO officially supporting this terrorist activity.
    (Zoran, 24 March 2011 21:43)

    # Comment link

  73. The anniversary is made grislier by the American propagandists claiming that the "success " of the Serbian massacre by NATO is evidence of NATO's imminent success in Libya.Humanitarian aid is the latest means of mass murder.That is what is going on in Libya.
    (Rekha Vinjamuri, 24 March 2011 21:42)

    # Comment link

  74. @"Pork Pie" Arti,

    the "racak massacre" was not 'witnessed' by anyone. It was 'reported' and the investigation was by william walker ex-cia who has a very interesting history in latin america.

    Really, you can't even blame your choice of words on your very poor comprehension of the english language, let alone that you apparently know how to use the internet(!).
    (Pork Pie Hunter, 24 March 2011 21:34)

    # Comment link

  75. A as German I can only ask the Serbs to forgive what my government has done. I deeply regret that.
    (Thomas, 24 March 2011 17:09)


    I agree with Thomas, we can only ask Serbs to forgive everything our governments have done in Serbia!

    And it seems that people never learn from nothing, reading all this comments shows that we never learn.

    For me I can only say the best person I ever knew in my life is from Serbia. I always knew that Nato-Bombing were based on lies and never believed the stories from bad Serbs and good Albanians. There are good and bad people all over the world in every country.
    When will we stop saying these people are good and these are bad?
    When will we stop hating???

    May all the innocent victims from all of the world rest in peace!

    And at the end a question:

    This is day of remembrance and Tadic should use this opportunity to apologize to the victims and reveal the Serbian nation the reason why NATO bombed Serbia.
    (Creative Rationality, 24 March 2011 10:30)

    WHY did they do it???? 12 years after I still didn't found the reason
    (Tatjana, 24 March 2011 21:13)

    # Comment link

  76. Speak the truth, wtf, Go East or whatever other troll like name you are calling yourself today, the fact is that I didn't support my own family being bombed. But knowing what a vile creature you are, I'm not suprised you would make such a claim.

    The difference between you and I apart from your stupidity, is that you support Slobodan Milosevic, Murmar Gadafi, Sadam Hussein, Ayatollah Homeni or another other tinpot dictator, 'benevolent' or not. Doubtless you would mount a defence of Germany soverignty under Adolf Hitler against any action from foreign countries as well? Oh, don't tell me your 'principle' would change in that case!

    I am against these primitive, aggressive dictators dragging their people down. However, I am also against western imperialism. The fact is that your hero Milosevic was deeply unpopular with Serbs who realised that his regime was in charge of thievery, non diplomatic policies, incompetence and economic misery.

    Sloba's rule was chracterised by protests in different era's and the only way he managed to cling onto power was to form coalitions with the deeply unpopular party of his wife JUL or with Seselj's Serb Radical Party. Those parties were pumped with money from the state budget (from the Serbian tax payers pocket).

    Serbia has changed for good and frankly good riddance to Milosevic...
    (bganon, 24 March 2011 21:10)

    # Comment link

  77. The same congratulations from me.
    (Joe, 24 March 2011 20:15)

    Poor old Joe, confused about his roots.
    (Janos, 24 March 2011 21:09)

    # Comment link

  78. The "staged" Racak Massacre???? Are you out of your mind completely?
    It was witnessed by the journalists and reporters the world over,
    not to mention the internalional monitors, and you still have the
    gulls to call it staged.
    (Arti, 24 March 2011 19:43)

    You are right on this one mate, French journalist Christophe Chatelot
    from Le Monde and Rene Girard from Le Figaro witnessed it before
    "Willy" Walker arrived to village.
    (Jon, 24 March 2011 21:00)

    # Comment link

  79. History explains how we got where we are today, but we have the moral responsibility for what we do tomorrow. Every country in the world has something to be ashamed of; the only way forward is through admitting guilt and complicity wherever it is found.
    (whyomar, 24 March 2011 20:58)

    # Comment link

  80. Zoran, before Rambouillet Milosevic could have withdraw his army from Kosovo without harm, and he chose to defy Nato only because he wanted to remain in power, for his own interests, and you know well what I mean. Then the ultimatum came and he kept on refusing, knowing well that 1000s of Serbs would perish when NATO Would start bombing Serbia. And you seem to agree with Milosevic. Why? What I tell you is what a majority of Australian Serbs say over here.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 20:46)

    # Comment link

  81. NATO's 'right kind' of war crimes, to go forever unpunished. Europe's "Rule of Law" and America's "Freedom of Speech".

    NATO, like a vampire, sucks on the blood of others and it never gets enough. Evey now and then it comes close to death (NATO almost collapsed over the 78 day bombing of Serbia), but is miraculously revived at the last moment (thanks Yeltsin).

    Still, at least journalists can be slaughtered for the 'right reasons' because the west, which preaches the 'freedom of speech' does not like what is said. The West is immune from prosecution.

    Danilo, the suppression of the albanians started in 1991? Don't you know that the Serbs have been repressing the albanians since they turned up in the balkans and got rid of their ancestors, the Illiterates (as they left no written record). Tut, tut. You ought to be fired from the propaganda ministry!
    (Aleks, 24 March 2011 20:24)

    # Comment link

  82. "My congratulations to NATO and all our allies for doing a terrific job. "
    Tung

    The same congratulations from me.
    (Joe, 24 March 2011 20:15)

    # Comment link

  83. "A as German I can only ask the Serbs to forgive what my government has done. Thomas

    Don't overestimate your input. Compared to the US, UK and France it wasn't too much.
    (Joe, 24 March 2011 20:04)

    # Comment link

  84. They should have not bombed anything. But they bombed and destroyed many bridges and civilian areas. They used cluster bombs (USA and British) until the last day of bombing. Cluster bombs were used by US and British forces on civilian targets at least in Nis.

    Ian, remember Grdelica train bombing?

    But what you care: we are for you and your American puppet kingdom only "collateral damage". Say Hello to Jamie Shea.

    Shall we call victims of 9/11 also "collateral damage"?
    (Kari, 24 March 2011 16:43)

    I never said or implied that civilian casualties during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia were "collateral damage". I was actually criticising NATO for intentionally targeting them. Yet for some reason you've decided to have a go at me. I duno why.

    If you want to call the victims of 9/11 as "collateral damage" then please be my guest. I'm extremely sceptical of the official events anyway.
    (Ian, UK, 24 March 2011 19:55)

    # Comment link

  85. @bganon" "NATO patently did not do so with Serbia as it targetted bridges, marketplaces and civilian buildings"

    Bridges and legitimate military targets. NATO didn't target marketplaces, that is exclusively a Serbian specialty!



    @Dragan: "I remember all the lies, '100,000 dead albanians, the staged Racak massacre"

    Oh, no one beats the Serbs for lying, and manipulating.
    No one said "100,000 dead Albanians". What is was said instead was "100,000 were missing and they MAY HAVE BEEN murdered by the Serbiabn forces".

    The assessment was correct at the time when the Serb forces had unleashed a wave of wholesale ethnic cleansing, forcing an exodus of biblical proportions, that was nothing short of the genocide. And since Serbs had kicked out all the foreign journalists from Kosova, and judging from their experience in Bosnia and Arkan's interviews in US TV stations, the fact they were feared dead was a reasonable assesment at the time.

    [link]

    [link]

    The "staged" Racak Massacre???? Are you out of your mind completely? It was witnessed by the journalists and reporters the world over, not to mention the internalional monitors, and you still have the gulls to call it staged.

    Serbia deserved the bombing, if any thing it was a pretty lenient one. Serbia still deserves a good bombing. Down to its core Serbia is still the same as it was during the times of Milosevic.
    (Arti, 24 March 2011 19:43)

    # Comment link

  86. "The decision to go forward with the campaign was made without the consent of the UN Security Council, which was something that had never happened before."

    It was Russia who did not wish to vote in favor of airstrike...ALL KNOW WHY...Putin taked about in his recent visit in Serbia.


    "The same day, the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 1244, which confirmed Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo..." NOT REALLY it refers to Yugoslavia which doesnt exist anymore....than we have the International Court of Justice OPINION at Serbia's request...
    (EA, 24 March 2011 18:45)

    # Comment link

  87. History will trace that illegal military action as the beginning of the end of the american empire - america will collapse from the debt caused by trying to dominate the world just like the Soviet Union fell when it tried to ruke the world.
    (JohnBoy, 24 March 2011 18:10)

    # Comment link

  88. about how many albanian's ran into serbia for safety?
    @Lalo

    Operation Horse Shoe put into effect by Miloshevic did not allow passage towards Serbia. Don't know where you got that info!
    Actually this operation's passage was towards Albania, but fortunately it was allowed towards Macedonia and later on Montenegro start opening the doors to help K-Albanisn and shelter them from Miloshevic's killing machine.
    (Agim Kelmendi, 24 March 2011 17:58)

    # Comment link

  89. am a Serb and I say that NATO had no choice to stop Milosevic's foly, not more than the USA had in 1941, to stop Hitler before he had control of the whole world. But Ia am with the Serbs to commemorate this event that Milosevic could have prevented, and more specifically the death of all those who died in the useless conflict which ended by the demonization of Serbs worldwide.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 16:40)

    Boris, you are just another brain washed victim of CNN and Us propaganda machine.

    Nato had a choice, just sidelined with wrong side: time will tell.

    Albanians had a choice, never wanted to vote in elections against Milosevic, they always boycotted elections. For them Milosevic was the choice and they wanted him on power. He was there chance and only way to get independendence.

    The Albanians were advised by US if they can produce evidence that 5000 Albanian civilians died in hands of Serbs, US will intervene. You can see your self in BBC documentary Moral Combat - NATO at War - Part 1 [link] when at 9:15, Dugi Gorani (Albanian negotiator from Rambouillet) talks about that. They were not able to produce that numbers, therefore they orchestrated the famous "Racak" hoax. And we all know what happened after that.
    (Jure, 24 March 2011 17:43)

    # Comment link

  90. [link]
    (Pejoni, 24 March 2011 14:41)

    Your link is not going through, but would be very interested in reading your CNN propaganda.
    (Jugoslavija, 24 March 2011 17:41)

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  91. Nonsense, civilians killed in Kosovo were deliberate placed around combat targets by MUP and VJ, in other words "human shields", same tactic is used by Gaddafi today.
    (Pejoni, 24 March 2011 12:21)

    Absolutely false; even NATO propoganda did not go that far. You like making things up?

    Milosevic was pre-warned of many of the targets and took appropriate actions to evacuate; the interior ministry was completely empty when NATO hit it.
    (Jugoslavija, 24 March 2011 17:33)

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  92. (Ratko, 24 March 2011 14:50)

    100% correct, and the world still has not learned and continue to believe the CNN and BBC propoganda througout the air-waves. NATO propoganda in Yugoslavia hid the civilian deaths, but you can clearly see that over 2000 Yugoslav civilans were killed and civilian targets were chosen to terrorize the population.

    The KLA is responsible for mass war crimes including targeting and killing key Albanian political leaders against the KLA. Rugova and his family was saved by Milosevic who put him under protective custody as he was on the hit list from the KLA. The Vatican did not save Rugova, Milosevic did.

    The Libyan bombing is no different except that there was a UN resolution authorizing a "NO FLY ZONE" which has ended up authorizing the invasion of Libya through the rebels and the air power by the so called allies.
    (Jugoslavija, 24 March 2011 17:31)

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  93. Milosevic could have prevented...
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 16:40)
    --
    You are right Boris, Milosevic could have prevented the bombing by accepting the Rambouillet Agreement, which would have had all of Serbia and Montenegro occupied by NATO and rewarded KLA terrorists with independence. Easy peasy.

    In fact, according to your logic, I don't even know why we resisted Hitler. We Serbians, the British and Russians should have just let the NAZIs occupy all of Europe and save ourselves from the NAZI bombings. Seems like you are onto something here.
    (Zoran, 24 March 2011 17:14)

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  94. 12 years ago NATO bombed Milosevic, today NATO is bombing Gaddafi. Isn't NATO great or what?
    (ivan, 24 March 2011 15:54)

    Yep-you know what`s even better-pacoli dancing like a poodle for Gen.Gadaffi
    (lids, 24 March 2011 17:10)

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  95. A as German I can only ask the Serbs to forgive what my government has done. I deeply regret that.
    (Thomas, 24 March 2011 17:09)

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  96. RIP to all innocent civilians who died during the bombing campaign. I think NATO should have only bombed military and political targets, I don't understand why they would bomb civilian infrastructure such as Bridges, residential areas ect.
    (Ian, UK, 24 March 2011 12:09)

    They should have not bombed anything. But they bombed and destroyed many bridges and civilian areas. They used cluster bombs (USA and British) until the last day of bombing. Cluster bombs were used by US and British forces on civilian targets at least in Nis.

    Ian, remember Grdelica train bombing?

    But what you care: we are for you and your American puppet kingdom only "collateral damage". Say Hello to Jamie Shea.

    Shall we call victims of 9/11 also "collateral damage"?
    (Kari, 24 March 2011 16:43)

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  97. RIP To all those Serbs who lost their lives during this time. Shame on the NATO forces who were so easily blinded and helped create Europe's darkest corner with the occupying Albanian terrorists.
    (ProvinceOfKosovo, 24 March 2011 16:42)

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  98. I am a Serb and I say that NATO had no choice to stop Milosevic's foly, not more than the USA had in 1941, to stop Hitler before he had control of the whole world. But Ia am with the Serbs to commemorate this event that Milosevic could have prevented, and more specifically the death of all those who died in the useless conflict which ended by the demonization of Serbs worldwide.
    (Boris J, 24 March 2011 16:40)

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  99. In one week serb's cleaned Kosovo of KLA.If nato didn't get involved Kosovo would be clean of mafia and ordinary people would live in peace. How come no news talked about how many albanian's ran into serbia for safety? Albanians are lucky that Slobodan was leader because he was very soft.Albanians should be happy to be with serbs because if bulgarians were there neighbours or croatian's there would be no albania at all.Serbias biggest problem even today is leadership.If you go to war finish the job if not why fight.Conquer then talk.After WW2 TITO generals warned him that e-legal albanians who came to Kosovo after WW2 would be a problem and TITO retired the generals. Generals told Slobodan give use 2 weeks to fix the problem Slobo didn't listen.We have good generals but bad leaders.You give an albanian 1" they take 2 miles.We had the opertunity to put things right and we failed. Now all we can hope for is a partition which is fair. Give albanians 90% of land keep the north in serbia. If not history will repeat itself this time serbs had enough.
    (Lalo, 24 March 2011 16:38)

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  100. KU!

    What attrocities are you making up now?

    IF you want the hear the truth about Kosovo, then check out the following link.

    [link]

    or even this link

    [link]
    (Another Canadian Serb, 24 March 2011 16:04)

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  101. 12 years ago NATO bombed Milosevic, today NATO is bombing Gaddafi. Isn't NATO great or what?
    (ivan, 24 March 2011 15:54)

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  102. Not one word of the article mentions the atrocities the Serbian government committed in Kosovo. Very sad and disappointing state of affairs.
    (KU, 24 March 2011 15:29)

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  103. Thank you NATO!
    If the bombing didn't occur there would have been 500 thousand albanians dead and 1.5 milions displaced.
    I am still surprised when I see serbian comentators still living in denial.For them were aliens not serbs. were aliens who killed and humiliated systematically albanians since 1981.
    OK continue to think that serbs were innocent and others are bad.I can not change your opinion,and none does.That's why you are the only pro russian island in the Balkans.
    @ Ratko
    Yes serbs didn't kill Rugova,but they killed Agani,Rugova's right hand.Also humiliated Rugova himself and his family,till Vatican got involve and mediate his safety.
    No serbs didn't do anything.They were angels.Keep dreaming!
    (Mirel from Albania, 24 March 2011 15:24)

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  104. The amount of lies on their state controlled media was unbelievable CNN BBC etc the media outlets that are part of the new world order. I remember when nato aggressors went on tv and said how serbs killed rugova, what a lie! Or when that coward war criminal clark went on cnn propaganda tv and was explaining how the train full of civillians was hit by a missile by coincidence. SHAME! They are doing the same today to Libya.
    (Ratko, 24 March 2011 14:50)

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  105. As hard-core Otporistas, like "Bganon" for one,cheering behind NATO in Kosovo, Libya and trough out the middle east, they might not say it right out because of their vile nature but according to them we where actually "baptized" by NATO in "humanitarian" birth-pangs-bombing -for our own good.

    See, we are no more "backwards" and eastern leaning. Our western Samaritans also gave us an government of their wise choosing and so our politic is good. Their monetary branch, IMF, gave us loans so that they will forever embrace us with conditional debts.
    (Speak the truth, 24 March 2011 14:49)

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  106. NATO itself has never claimed a single instance of Serbian forces using human shields. You just made that up - pathetic.
    (Dave, 24 March 2011 13:03)

    Did I?

    [link]
    (Pejoni, 24 March 2011 14:41)

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  107. "Albanians, Serbians and other residents started leaving the province *after* the bombing started."

    Let's also not forget the systematic oppression of Kosovo Albanians starting from 1991
    (Danilo, 24 March 2011 14:10)

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  108. Absolute lie. There were several death of the convoy of Albanians being expelled by force and were encircled by Serbian soldier when NATO attacked the convoy.
    (Kosova-USA, 24 March 2011 10:16)
    --
    If the ethnic Albanian civilian convoys were being expelled then they were going in the wrong direction. The ones bombed were heading back home and it seems NATO didn't like that.

    I can see many ethnic Albanians here celebrating death and destruction, even of their own people. Shame on them and RIP to all those innocent deaths, Serbian, Albanian and other.

    Lets remember that NATO bombed Serbia for not accepting the Rambouillet Agreement while ethnic Albanians, Serbians and other residents started leaving the province *after* the bombing started.
    (Zoran, 24 March 2011 13:10)

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  109. Nonsense, civilians killed in Kosovo were deliberate placed around combat targets by MUP and VJ, in other words "human shields", same tactic is used by Gaddafi today.
    (Pejoni, 24 March 2011 12:21)

    NATO itself has never claimed a single instance of Serbian forces using human shields. You just made that up - pathetic.
    (Dave, 24 March 2011 13:03)

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  110. It appears that 'civilised' countries never learn the lessons that non military targets should be unacceptible.

    If western countries are going to lecture non western countries about war crimes and the killing of civilians it means these same western countries must take EVERY precaution to avoid killing civilians.

    NATO patently did not do so with Serbia as it targetted bridges, marketplaces and civilian buildings. At worst these were war crimes at best a full apology for these crimes and compensation should be issued.

    I will not enter the political subject as to whether 'humanitarian' bombing is justified.

    What I do expect, no what I DEMAND, is the highest possible standard to avoid all civilian casualties.

    Ian your definition of 'political' targets? I hope you are not talking about civlian targets, which you condemned as it would be a contradictory position.
    (bganon, 24 March 2011 13:01)

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  111. A disgusting war crime, where the world's largest military alliance bombed a small country for 78 days for reasons that were all blatant lies. I remember all the lies, '100,000 dead albanians, the staged Racak massacre, throwing bodies down the Trepca mine shaft....repeated daily by that well paid liar Jamie Shae, and his gang of war criminals lead by Wesley Clark and Madeline Albright.
    We will never forget, nor forgive, this war crime. Instead of sitting in a jail cell where he should be, Wesley Clark, the man who ordered the bombing of the RTS building and murdured make-up women and janitors, is now on CNN every day spewing the same garbage he did 12 years ago, justifying dropping humanitarian bombs and depleted uranium on another country in the name of 'peace'.
    RIP to all the victims of this unpunished war crime.
    (Dragan, 24 March 2011 12:59)

    # Comment link

  112. Kosova is celebrating the beginning of the end of terror.


    My congratulations to NATO and all our allies for doing a terrific job.

    The Serb government shouldn't have placed innocent people to the well know targets which were to be bombed. This shows the respect they have to their own people.

    If we, Albanians/Illyriers, would only have the half of the equipment of the Serbian Army than we would have beaten you ourselves.

    You army and para-military groups were proud to fight agains unarmed civilians. Shame on you.

    Tung
    (FREEDOM, 24 March 2011 12:46)

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  113. dude, what drives you to write such a nonsense here?
    (Jovan, 24 March 2011 12:03)
    dude what makes you so med about his comment my be just because hi is tealling the truth ,come down have little gless vater wait at list untill 15th aniversary of nato bombing serbia
    (rolandi, 24 March 2011 12:26)

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  114. Nonsense, civilians killed in Kosovo were deliberate placed around combat targets by MUP and VJ, in other words "human shields", same tactic is used by Gaddafi today.
    (Pejoni, 24 March 2011 12:21)

    # Comment link

  115. RIP to all innocent civilians who died during the bombing campaign. I think NATO should have only bombed military and political targets, I don't understand why they would bomb civilian infrastructure such as Bridges, residential areas ect.
    (Ian, UK, 24 March 2011 12:09)

    # Comment link

  116. All i can say is:Thank you NATO on behalf of my family.
    (bb, 24 March 2011 12:06)

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  117. @kosovo-usa:

    dude, what drives you to write such a nonsense here?
    (Jovan, 24 March 2011 12:03)

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  118. I remember all the NATO lies - Shea every day on our TVs saying how NATO had destroyed Serbia's military- how many were destroyed- 3 tanks? Whereas we know Serbia shot down their invisible plane- NATO couldn't deny that. NATO denied everything until they couldn't deny/lie any more- the attack on the civilian column, the train, the Chinese embassy, the ethnic cleansing etc etc They targeted civilian targets because they were gutless and couldn't hit anything miltary, they would have lost in a man to man fight and they knew it. It was NATo who was glad to get out in the end as many Europeans were against their imperialism. As for the Albanians you'll find the Americans are fair weather friends, they've got their Bondsteel (FOR THE MOMENT)and they'll drop you when you are of no further use. I was against the attacks from the start and still think it was a terrible tragedy.
    (Diana, 24 March 2011 12:00)

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  119. It still feels that Serbia diden't learn a lesson from this.

    Serbs were OK when their army killed and massacred civilians in Bosnia,Croatia and Kosovo so they should be OK with Nato bombing Serbia. This was the smallest punishment Serbia got for treating their neighbours the way they did.


    GOOD JOB Nato!!! I just hope you dont need to do it again..
    (Demi, 24 March 2011 11:48)

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  120. THANK YOU NATO THANK YOU EU&USA GOD BLESS YOU
    (rolandi, 24 March 2011 11:23)

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  121. Увек у мојим мислима.

    Stopped contributing to this site many years ago. Nice to see nothing has changed... pure hatred from emigree Albanians even on a subject that is sensitive. Is there a site/forum where i can go and pour scorn on Albanian innocent victims? I wouldn't, of course, because i have a soul, a conscience, a sense of dignity. The comment above would be more at home in a zoo.
    (Anthony Shelmerdine, 24 March 2011 10:46)

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  122. I think this anniversary is message of peace and prosperity for the whole region. If the bombing did no occur today we would have had 1.5m Albanians out of the their ancestors and and replaced by colonialists. THANKS to the coalition of the willing we have reversed this.

    This is day of remembrance and Tadic should use this opportunity to apologize to the victims and reveal the Serbian nation the reason why NATO bombed Serbia.
    (Creative Rationality, 24 March 2011 10:30)

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  123. . NATO's losses have never been made public.

    NATO did not loose a single soldier in combat during bombing of Serbia.



    More than half of the casualties from NATO attacks were among the Kosovo Albanians,

    Absolute lie. There were several death of the convoy of Albanians being expelled by force and were encircled by Serbian soldier when NATO attacked the convoy.
    (Kosova-USA, 24 March 2011 10:16)

    # Comment link

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