 | | Tomislav Nikolić (FoNet, archive) |
Following the eruption of a media affair in the wake of his public rift with Radicals ICTY-defendant leader Vojislav Šešelj on the issue of Serbia’s future in the EU, CorD spoke to the former Radical front man. With wide praise still ringing in the break-away Radical’s ears, we initially asked him to comment on those accolades and determine whether he believes his political adversaries from the democratic block really want him to survive in politics?
Our conversation is regularly interrupted by the ringing of telephones. Journalists and activists from the new political party being put together by Nikolić are constantly calling. At one point, Aleksandar Vučić, former Secretary General of the Serb Radical Party (SRS), calls. We are talking in the offices of Nikolić’s caucus in the Serbian Parliament. So, what about those accolades?
“I’ll accept praise from those who accept democracy,” Nikolić says.
So, you do accept compliments from Tadić or Đilas?
“Well, I don’t know whether I accept them. I think they gave them to me on purpose, in order to reduce our political influence. Of course, they know that we are democrats. If we weren’t, we would still be in the Radical ranks. If I were not a democrat, I would have tried to change the approach and activities of the Serbian Radical Party during these last five years. I would like us to become acceptable to those people who used to be afraid of us. But I certainly like to hear praise from the people whose democratic orientation I am sure of, even if they are not on the same political platform as we are."
"Don’t expect this party, the Serb Progressive Party, to ever act in an undemocratic manner. However, I am not alright with the British Ambassador praising me at a time when former friends are accusing me of being a British spy. Now, the whole of Serbia knows who I really am (laughs)."
"Before I receive any praise, I would like the people first to see what we are going to do on the Serbian political scene.”
I remind Nikolić that, in the eyes of the media and analysts, he was never a typical member of the Serbian Radical Party. He was always more open and less prone to making militant and nationalistic statements. He never talked about Serbia’s state borders being along the lines of Karlobag, Ogulin, Karlovac, Virovitica (a reference to Greater Serbia).
The president of the new Serb Progressive Party (SNP) responds by insisting that he has been a disciplined member of SRS for the past 18 years. According to him, this meant complete adherence to the party’s program, supporting the party ideology and making public appearances which are in no way differed from the official party stance.
“Every normal and serious individual would try to preserve at least some of his integrity in such an environment,” Nikolić points out, refusing to admit that he is different or possesses a different mentality to that considered to be an SRS quality, which certainly doesn’t sound like Vojislav Šešelj.
“We led the party without any conflict, even when I wasn’t too happy with our activities. It was only when I came to the position of leading policy and Šešelj had to follow that conflict started,” Nikolić insists.
Aside from the party’s harsh nationalist ideology, in the beginning SRS was clearly positioned on the right-wing – you advocated liberal capitalism and defended capitalist interests. However, once you took over the active leadership of the party it slid into populism and brought the social demands of the poorest people to the forefront. Is this the essence of your conflict with Šešelj?
“We advocated a free market and privatization of public enterprises, but following the conflict in Croatia, and later in Bosnia, we dedicated ourselves to taking part in the war and neglected all other facets of political life. We ruined our political ascension wittingly, to a certain extent, when we entered the government of Slobodan Milošević in order to defend Kosovo and Metohija."
"Our role wasn’t a particularly memorable one, and so we were completely squeezed out of the political scene after 5th October. Our new ascension started in 2002, when we became aware that the society was at a juncture that made the choices of the people crucial. Europe’s offer tipped the scales in the 2000 elections: ‘USD 4bn is waiting in Hungary; change the government, bring a democratic one, and sanctions and blockades will be lifted; capital is coming, investors are coming, the state is getting it together'."
"The citizens couldn’t resist such an invitation. Afterwards they realised how rigorous these European laws were – the laws which have been imposed on the Parliament and Serbia by all governments, from Đinđić’s to the current one. This is why we placed an emphasis on social issues, since many promises made by the new government had been left unfulfilled. SRS kept everything that was national, in the sense of the Republic of Serbia’s nationalism and love for the country, but it also turned attention to the problems of everyday people."
"Unfortunately, DOS [Democratic Opposition of Serbia] didn’t use the opportunity to further develop relations with the West, and was not allowed to cooperate with Russia. Eight years after the upheaval, aside from the problem of Kosovo, the country’s main problem is now the living standard of its citizens."
"Nobody in SRS had a bad word to say about my policy of cooperating both with the East and West, although Šešelj had a different opinion. When you are in such position, there is nothing you can object to. Who is the biggest European ally? Russia! And vice versa, of course. What do we need to do? To say that we are going to shun them? Even SRS has travelled the road from an EU opponent to being just an amendment away from accepting the path towards the EU. This is called adjusting. We cannot be stuck in trenches without ever moving an inch.”
So, nobody wanted to be associated with the Radicals after 5th October. What will the so-called coalition capacity of SNS be like? Who can you cooperate and form coalitions with, now that Šešelj is no longer here to stop you?
“Although I often refuted claims that nobody wanted to be associated with us, I knew that that was the truth. At a meeting of the SRS leadership, when I was thrown out of the party, I said that even if we’d had 40 percent of votes we would not have made it to power, since all other parties would assemble around the ’yellow ones’ [parties of the so-called Democratic Block]. The Democrats have formed a coalition without us now, but if they needed more votes in the Parliament they would have got them. In the future, Serbia will have two political blocks and they will alternate in power – on one side there is DS, and on the other is SNS or the coalition of parties assembled around us.”
Or around DSS and the Radicals?
“I am not sure about that. If they are strong enough maybe that will happen, but I think that our time is coming. We are going to be ready to cooperate with everybody, but we aren’t going to form a coalition with the Democrats at the national level.”
You will not have anything to do with the ’yellow ones’ after all?
“Serbia doesn’t need that."
When we mentioned that there was a similar large coalition in power in Germany, Nikolić noted that Germany was in a specific situation and that the coalition of the two biggest parties would be a step back from democracy to a one-party-system."
"I don’t even want to imagine such difficult times for Serbia, when everybody should be included in one government. We are going to compete with the ideas and will control each other,” Nikolić explains, adding that when it comes to the municipal level cooperation is possible with everybody and SNS headquarters will not meddle in that.
“For the first time this year, following the order from The Hague, we refused a DS offer to share power in two municipalities.”
Speaking of power, you have years of experience both in power and as an opposition leader. You were a minister and a prisoner. Why is the governance of Serbia developing more slowly than is the case in neighboring countries?
“During the 1990s, the EU burdened Serbia with wars. They were unjust towards Serbs and every other nation in Europe had more rights than us. Croatia illegally imported arms and all Serb rights were neglected. The U.S. was at the helm of this policy. Serbia had to go to war, but these wars did not stop us. We didn’t have Russian support back than. Yeltsin and the West introduced economic sanctions. We were bombed because of Kosovo, but we were absolutely in the right. They sent all our prominent people to The Hague. This created an image that we are savages and murderers, and that everybody else was an innocent victim of Serbian aggression."
"In 2002 we got a bad government. This government played with the West and thought that joining the EU was just around the corner. The EU was just like a big river, all you needed to do was move your arms a bit in order to swim. Serbia still drowned in this big river. I do understand that EU members have open borders and joint laws, but Serbia is still not a member. How can somebody open everything that is ours to Europe, when Europe is not opening to us?”
Well, Europe reduced its customs duties on our goods and gave us preferential treatment a long time ago. We have also been given the most financial assistance in the last eight years – more than any EU country.
“Yes, I know that and I understand it. But what is the exit strategy here? Is our strategy to become poor again? Who would have the right to be a Euro-skeptic, doubting the European values, if everybody in Serbia was employed, if we were already in the EU, if we travelled freely and our unemployment rate was like Bulgaria’s? Nobody."
“This government doesn’t know how to lead us to the EU. This government is so heterogeneous. We would join the EU much faster if we had more solid cooperation with Russia. If we had used the advantages of this cooperation, Europe couldn’t have waited to have us as its member. Who do we belong to? West? Russia? Ourselves? We don’t have an identity of our own.”
In your opinion, when are we going to join the EU; the latest date is 2014?
“The problem is not in the Netherlands and its stance. The problem is in us. I insist on someone drawing a graph and outlining the prerequisites for us to join the EU. The Government can meet these prerequisites, but there are a couple that it just cannot – i.e. for the democratic Government to ask the Parliament’s support and for Serbia to present Europe with the agenda through the Parliament, and not Dinkić or Đelić. In that case, there would be no blackmail or deadlines anymore. Eight years after the political changes, we are not a step closer to Europe. This is something that the Government promised the people. Judging by the level of bribery, crime and corruption, we might never join it.”
Isn’t it a utopian dream to believe that most EU countries and the U.S. will change their stance on Kosovo and that Kosovo will be returned to Serbia one day? That does sound unrealistic.
“I think that the process could be stopped and regulated by negotiations. The solution is not division of the territory, but rather an economically sound Serbia which invests in Kosovo. The part of Kosovo with a mostly Serbian population should be developed in such a way that their neighbors will think twice about what they actually gained by becoming independent, i.e. to start looking for a job in Serbian communities. Serbia needs to prove that it can develop Kosovo and Metohija, and enable the people there to have a good life. Nobody can deny Serbia this, not even the large privately-owned companies."
"If we secure a good life, not even the U.S. will be able to object to a very wide autonomy for Kosovo within Serbian borders. Economic prosperity eliminates conflicts. The culprits belong in prisons. And why should we fight because we belong to different nationalities? This is not the century of revolutions." Proposal for Tadić "What can I do for Serbia as the President of SNS? I can ask Boris Tadić whether he has problems with Čanak and Dinkić about implementation of the arrangement that I signed with Putin. Boris, are you scared that the Government will collapse because of that? Are you scared that you won’t get support in the Parliament? Here, prepare a set of laws which regulates relations with Russia and a set of laws which will show the EU that we can fulfill their standards and we will vote in favor of them."
"But, after that, he would have to dismiss the Parliament. This is what we can do, i.e. adopt needed laws and secure a government majority for their adoption prior to elections. I am not leading a group of people who couldn’t take it any longer back there so they formed a government with Boris Tadić. What I want to do is show the citizens that intolerance is not necessary; that the only things we should argue about are election ideas." Dobrica Ćosić Looking back, are you sorry now to have caused Dobrica Ćosić to step down from the position of the country’s President?
“I have great respect for that man. He offered me some advice in writing today and if I’d known that he would be coming to Parliament I would have postponed the press conference. I’ll certainly get in touch with him later, but nothing about our relations will change. Ćosić entered politics with good intentions. I remember that he had a tough time in the Parliament back then. Imagine a writer being called up to lead a country. Milošević suggested him, we accepted and he became the President. He was relieved of this duty after surrendering Prevlaka. I think that this job should be left to politicians. I am convinced that Dobrica Ćosić is a great man and a great writer, a great mind, but he failed to run the former Yugoslavia properly and I don’t owe him any apology for that.”
This article originally appeared on the CorD website
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